Originally posted by Vato26 Instancing is a personal preference. Thus, it is a subjective negative rather than a factual negative.
Anyways, regardless of "Massive" being a totally subjective term as well, I will answer your question. Players can contact anyone they want wherever they are. They can use ingame mail to contact other players. They can see their own fleet-mates anywhere in the game. They can trade with anyone in the game (regardless of faction) via the Exchange (auction house). Sounds pretty "Massive" to me. And, your last part was nothing but opinion. Again, instancing is a subjective negative rather than a factual negative.
I can see your point of view, I just don't agree with it. To me, the over instancing of the game kills any type of immersion and get best be described as a co-op RPG, because there is no "massive" in this game. I think many MMO players would argue the fact of factual vs subjective negative when comes to instances in an MMO. I would think players would want an open world/space rather than small confined space with a limit of 50 or so people. I could be wrong....Until further evidence is shown, I guess we won't know.
Ive been playing MMO's for almost 15 years. When i said you can kill one enemy ship outa 9 and come back rinse repeat it was just an example that it is something you "can" do. Please tell me when you have been going around somewhere and seen anyone in trouble?
PVP - meaningless with no effect on the "game" you get exp and money
Klingon content - In this day and age for a company to release a whole faction not even partially done is quite pathetic. Why should customers have to pay a subscription when half the game is missing? I am NOT talking about adding content over the next 6 months to a year.
This is my major gripe with the game. When a company can release a product that is partially finnished and everyone buys it and just go "they are gonna add it later". It makes it OK for other company's to do the same thing. Soon we will start seeing games released with content from lvl 1-10 and the rest will be added "later" while everyone pays a monthly sub.
My only other major issue is cash shop plus monthy sub. I do not see cryptic being the type of company that will not add game altering items to the cash shop. At this time they removed content from the game to add it to cash shop at "RELEASE". If your game is 60% ready for release how can they justify removing a portion of that to put into the cash shop?
Those things in Eve, like overly harsch penalties, can be changed. What matter is that Eve has the right foundation for a space MMO where space is vast and persistant sandbox and STO will never have that because it is built on instances after instances and themeparks. Exploring and persistant actions will not be seen in STO because everything is instances. Territorial control (like a war) will not be possible in STO because you cannot control somethign that has XX instances. That is why the Abyss is persistant in Aion and not instanced. Exploring in themeparks is also not possible because themeparks is built around the notion of devs adding new rides to run and there is no time in the world where devs can add enough rides for 1000s of people to explore. Exploration needs vastness of space and such a thing does not exist in STO and will not ever exist because of their architecture, which consists of small, short lived instances.
Never have is a bit harsh since we do not know what the future holds. The lack of territorial control and persistant actions I think will be molre do to IP limitations than game limitations. I have worked with Paramount and they are a pain in the behnind over the Star Trek IP.
I can see however an expansion of the exploration system as it fits into the ST IP.
As for the fact you say those things can be changed in EVE you are wrong. A change of those features would result in a lose of the game. A new game would in effect be made.
At the end of the day however comparing EVE and STO does not work well for either side. STO is IP limited in scope while EVE is not. EVE is a multi year MATURE MMO while STO is a new release.
I do not consider this a traditional MMO simply because it lacks a persistant world that for me defines an MMO. That does not mean a game can use instancing but it can not be the entire game. STO plays exactly like guild wars does. I am not going to pay $14.99 a month for this type of game play. If it was free to play like Guild Wars then maybe but this game offers very little to be charging a monthly sub for.
We will see I am not sure todays gamer is going to stick around for this type of game play let only pay a montly sub for, I guess we will see 3 months from now by looking at the player population or lack there of which I suspect will be the case.
Those things in Eve, like overly harsch penalties, can be changed. What matter is that Eve has the right foundation for a space MMO where space is vast and persistant sandbox and STO will never have that because it is built on instances after instances and themeparks. Exploring and persistant actions will not be seen in STO because everything is instances. Territorial control (like a war) will not be possible in STO because you cannot control somethign that has XX instances. That is why the Abyss is persistant in Aion and not instanced. Exploring in themeparks is also not possible because themeparks is built around the notion of devs adding new rides to run and there is no time in the world where devs can add enough rides for 1000s of people to explore. Exploration needs vastness of space and such a thing does not exist in STO and will not ever exist because of their architecture, which consists of small, short lived instances.
Never have is a bit harsh since we do not know what the future holds. The lack of territorial control and persistant actions I think will be molre do to IP limitations than game limitations. I have worked with Paramount and they are a pain in the behnind over the Star Trek IP.
I can see however an expansion of the exploration system as it fits into the ST IP.
As for the fact you say those things can be changed in EVE you are wrong. A change of those features would result in a lose of the game. A new game would in effect be made.
At the end of the day however comparing EVE and STO does not work well for either side. STO is IP limited in scope while EVE is not. EVE is a multi year MATURE MMO while STO is a new release.
If people like EVE better than they should go play EVE. Just like anyone that complains a fantasy game isn't more like World of Warcraft should go play World of Warcraft.
I'm glad that it doesn't take me several months to train up one skill like it does in EVE.
I'm glad that ganking isn't encouraged in this game like it is in EVE.
I'm glad that if I make a mistake I don't have to start all over again like I do in EVE.
I'm glad that I can actually walk on planets, which I can't do in EVE.
I'm glad that I actually have a human avatar that I can customize which I can't in EVE.
I'm glad that everything isn't in real time, because some of us have an actual life in the real world outside the pixelated world
I'm glad that I can get where I need to go in a short period of time, whereas in EVE it would be hours.
So really,STO is nothing like EVE for which I am grateful.
If people like EVE better than they should go play EVE. Just like anyone that complains a fantasy game isn't more like World of Warcraft should go play World of Warcraft.
I'm glad that it doesn't take me several months to train up one skill like it does in EVE. I'm glad that ganking isn't encouraged in this game like it is in EVE. I'm glad that if I make a mistake I don't have to start all over again like I do in EVE. I'm glad that I can actually walk on planets, which I can't do in EVE. I'm glad that I actually have a human avatar that I can customize which I can't in EVE. I'm glad that everything isn't in real time, because some of us have an actual life in the real world outside the pixelated world I'm glad that I can get where I need to go in a short period of time, whereas in EVE it would be hours.
So really,STO is nothing like EVE for which I am grateful.
I disagree with the orange bit. EVE's skill system benefits those with busy lives. You dont have to actually play the game in order to advance, skill-wise.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Those things in Eve, like overly harsch penalties, can be changed. What matter is that Eve has the right foundation for a space MMO where space is vast and persistant sandbox and STO will never have that because it is built on instances after instances and themeparks. Exploring and persistant actions will not be seen in STO because everything is instances. Territorial control (like a war) will not be possible in STO because you cannot control somethign that has XX instances. That is why the Abyss is persistant in Aion and not instanced. Exploring in themeparks is also not possible because themeparks is built around the notion of devs adding new rides to run and there is no time in the world where devs can add enough rides for 1000s of people to explore. Exploration needs vastness of space and such a thing does not exist in STO and will not ever exist because of their architecture, which consists of small, short lived instances.
Never have is a bit harsh since we do not know what the future holds. The lack of territorial control and persistant actions I think will be molre do to IP limitations than game limitations. I have worked with Paramount and they are a pain in the behnind over the Star Trek IP.
I can see however an expansion of the exploration system as it fits into the ST IP.
As for the fact you say those things can be changed in EVE you are wrong. A change of those features would result in a lose of the game. A new game would in effect be made.
At the end of the day however comparing EVE and STO does not work well for either side. STO is IP limited in scope while EVE is not. EVE is a multi year MATURE MMO while STO is a new release.
If people like EVE better than they should go play EVE. Just like anyone that complains a fantasy game isn't more like World of Warcraft should go play World of Warcraft.
I'm glad that it doesn't take me several months to train up one skill like it does in EVE.
I'm glad that ganking isn't encouraged in this game like it is in EVE.
I'm glad that if I make a mistake I don't have to start all over again like I do in EVE.
I'm glad that I can actually walk on planets, which I can't do in EVE.
I'm glad that I actually have a human avatar that I can customize which I can't in EVE.
I'm glad that everything isn't in real time, because some of us have an actual life in the real world outside the pixelated world
I'm glad that I can get where I need to go in a short period of time, whereas in EVE it would be hours.
So really,STO is nothing like EVE for which I am grateful.
don't beat about the bush, just tell it straight, you dont like Eve... and by the sound of it.. didnt really understand it either... Understandable, after all Eve is a niche game and the challenges are not to everyones taste, and it appears not being able to see their own feet is a major problem for them
If people like EVE better than they should go play EVE. Just like anyone that complains a fantasy game isn't more like World of Warcraft should go play World of Warcraft.
I'm glad that it doesn't take me several months to train up one skill like it does in EVE. I'm glad that ganking isn't encouraged in this game like it is in EVE. I'm glad that if I make a mistake I don't have to start all over again like I do in EVE. I'm glad that I can actually walk on planets, which I can't do in EVE. I'm glad that I actually have a human avatar that I can customize which I can't in EVE. I'm glad that everything isn't in real time, because some of us have an actual life in the real world outside the pixelated world I'm glad that I can get where I need to go in a short period of time, whereas in EVE it would be hours.
So really,STO is nothing like EVE for which I am grateful.
I disagree with the orange bit. EVE's skill system benefits those with busy lives. You dont have to actually play the game in order to advance, skill-wise.
Yeah but you could have spent years logging on just you keep your skills going and then one day you decide to play and you don't have a single clue of what to do. Eve does require a more significant sacrifice of personal time compared to other MMOs to really advance and be successful in the game.
If people like EVE better than they should go play EVE. Just like anyone that complains a fantasy game isn't more like World of Warcraft should go play World of Warcraft.
I'm glad that it doesn't take me several months to train up one skill like it does in EVE. I'm glad that ganking isn't encouraged in this game like it is in EVE. I'm glad that if I make a mistake I don't have to start all over again like I do in EVE. I'm glad that I can actually walk on planets, which I can't do in EVE. I'm glad that I actually have a human avatar that I can customize which I can't in EVE. I'm glad that everything isn't in real time, because some of us have an actual life in the real world outside the pixelated world I'm glad that I can get where I need to go in a short period of time, whereas in EVE it would be hours.
So really,STO is nothing like EVE for which I am grateful.
don't beat about the bush, just tell it straight, you dont like Eve... and by the sound of it.. didnt really understand it either... Understandable, after all Eve is a niche game and the challenges are not to everyones taste, and it appears not being able to see their own feet is a major problem for them
You're right, EVE isn't my type of game. The difference with me is I don't spend time on the EVE forums whining about it. I let the people who like the game discuss important issues with it instead of having to deal with thread after thread of "EVE should be more like STO."
Originally posted by Vato26 Instancing is a personal preference. Thus, it is a subjective negative rather than a factual negative.
Anyways, regardless of "Massive" being a totally subjective term as well, I will answer your question. Players can contact anyone they want wherever they are. They can use ingame mail to contact other players. They can see their own fleet-mates anywhere in the game. They can trade with anyone in the game (regardless of faction) via the Exchange (auction house). Sounds pretty "Massive" to me. And, your last part was nothing but opinion. Again, instancing is a subjective negative rather than a factual negative.
I can see your point of view, I just don't agree with it. To me, the over instancing of the game kills any type of immersion and get best be described as a co-op RPG, because there is no "massive" in this game. I think many MMO players would argue the fact of factual vs subjective negative when comes to instances in an MMO. I would think players would want an open world/space rather than small confined space with a limit of 50 or so people. I could be wrong....Until further evidence is shown, I guess we won't know.
Again, that is a subjective negative rather than a factual negative.
Consensus does not matter when it comes to factuality of a statement. If almost every person stated that the Earth was flat, they would all be wrong as has been factually proven.
If people like EVE better than they should go play EVE. Just like anyone that complains a fantasy game isn't more like World of Warcraft should go play World of Warcraft.
I'm glad that it doesn't take me several months to train up one skill like it does in EVE. I'm glad that ganking isn't encouraged in this game like it is in EVE. I'm glad that if I make a mistake I don't have to start all over again like I do in EVE. I'm glad that I can actually walk on planets, which I can't do in EVE. I'm glad that I actually have a human avatar that I can customize which I can't in EVE. I'm glad that everything isn't in real time, because some of us have an actual life in the real world outside the pixelated world I'm glad that I can get where I need to go in a short period of time, whereas in EVE it would be hours.
So really,STO is nothing like EVE for which I am grateful.
don't beat about the bush, just tell it straight, you dont like Eve... and by the sound of it.. didnt really understand it either... Understandable, after all Eve is a niche game and the challenges are not to everyones taste, and it appears not being able to see their own feet is a major problem for them
You're right, EVE isn't my type of game. The difference with me is I don't spend time on the EVE forums whining about it. I let the people who like the game discuss important issues with it instead of having to deal with thread after thread of "EVE should be more like STO."
These posters who come on this forum and state, "STO should be more like EvE!" or "STO isn't anything like EvE!" need to go back to the EvE forums then and leave STO forums alone.
Those things in Eve, like overly harsch penalties, can be changed. What matter is that Eve has the right foundation for a space MMO where space is vast and persistant sandbox and STO will never have that because it is built on instances after instances and themeparks. Exploring and persistant actions will not be seen in STO because everything is instances. Territorial control (like a war) will not be possible in STO because you cannot control somethign that has XX instances. That is why the Abyss is persistant in Aion and not instanced. Exploring in themeparks is also not possible because themeparks is built around the notion of devs adding new rides to run and there is no time in the world where devs can add enough rides for 1000s of people to explore. Exploration needs vastness of space and such a thing does not exist in STO and will not ever exist because of their architecture, which consists of small, short lived instances.
Never have is a bit harsh since we do not know what the future holds. The lack of territorial control and persistant actions I think will be molre do to IP limitations than game limitations. I have worked with Paramount and they are a pain in the behnind over the Star Trek IP.
Huh? It's a war! How can you have a war without territorial control? You mean that Paramount are ok with there being a war between Klingon and Feds but not you actually fighting that war?
I can see however an expansion of the exploration system as it fits into the ST IP.
I dont think it is possible with their current system architecture. The game consists of 40-50 so static instanced zones, each being too small to have any real exploration, so the only way to add exploration content is to add more instanced zones and it is not possible to add enough of those zones to have any real exploration. You need vast areas to have exploration and that seems not technically viable with their engine. CO didnt have large zones either, even though their zones were larger than STOs, strangely enough.
As for the fact you say those things can be changed in EVE you are wrong. A change of those features would result in a lose of the game. A new game would in effect be made.
I didnt say EVE had to be changed but rather the basics of Eve could be used to create a new game, one which is alot more Star Trek than what Cryptic has produced. I.e. a huge sandbox world where exploration is actually feasible. I have played Eve for almost 10 months, total, and I cant say I have been in more than 25% of all the zones they have.
At the end of the day however comparing EVE and STO does not work well for either side. STO is IP limited in scope while EVE is not. EVE is a multi year MATURE MMO while STO is a new release.
Now that is completely laughable. Saying that STO is limited by its IP, which is one of the hugest IPs ever made, would be like saying that LOTRO is limited by Tolkiens vast and rich IP. There is no way to create an MMORPG that spans over those massive IPs so it is rather the other way around.
Star Trek has tons of different proffessions, races, cultures, languages, worlds, sectors, ships, technologies and so on that to say that STO is limited by it is just making excuses for what little Cryptic has produced. Star Trek is richer in depth than Star Wars yet SWG, pre NGE, had much, much more things to do than in STO. Heck you could create player run towns in that game and there is nothing in the Star Trek IP saying that you could not create settlements. The Star Trek IP is NOT limited to Starfleet.
If people like EVE better than they should go play EVE. Just like anyone that complains a fantasy game isn't more like World of Warcraft should go play World of Warcraft.
I'm glad that it doesn't take me several months to train up one skill like it does in EVE. I'm glad that ganking isn't encouraged in this game like it is in EVE. I'm glad that if I make a mistake I don't have to start all over again like I do in EVE. I'm glad that I can actually walk on planets, which I can't do in EVE. I'm glad that I actually have a human avatar that I can customize which I can't in EVE. I'm glad that everything isn't in real time, because some of us have an actual life in the real world outside the pixelated world I'm glad that I can get where I need to go in a short period of time, whereas in EVE it would be hours.
So really,STO is nothing like EVE for which I am grateful.
don't beat about the bush, just tell it straight, you dont like Eve... and by the sound of it.. didnt really understand it either... Understandable, after all Eve is a niche game and the challenges are not to everyones taste, and it appears not being able to see their own feet is a major problem for them
You're right, EVE isn't my type of game. The difference with me is I don't spend time on the EVE forums whining about it. I let the people who like the game discuss important issues with it instead of having to deal with thread after thread of "EVE should be more like STO."
These posters who come on this forum and state, "STO should be more like EvE!" or "STO isn't anything like EvE!" need to go back to the EvE forums then and leave STO forums alone.
Really, what if you play *gasp* both games?
I am a, somewhat, Star Trek fan so I have every right to be in this forum and criticize the poor job Cryptic has done to this magnificent IP.
I dont want STO to be like Eve, I want STO to be like Star Trek. Imagine that.
Sure there are downsides to instances, but there are upsides too, you always have people online to play with, that there are hundreds of good guilds, instead of 1-2 who dominate endgame on your server. Your also always going to be on the same server as your friends are, even if you started the game independently from each other and also you or your guild can make a name for yourself, you have a identity. If your rocketeer in STO(im not), its the only rocketeer in STO. Also the game feels never empty, and never crowded either. You always have a nice amount of people around you, and that includes 2am in the morning when you get home from nightshift on a weekday.
All true, instances do have advantages but in STO I think they cross the line and people fairly question if it is an MMORPG as a result. For one, there is absolutely no persistent world in STO, absolutely NONE. STO is simply a series of maps you load to and from, with a few of these maps serving as 50 person hubs or lobbies.
STO is a MMORPG in the same way as Diablo 2 is ! Static maps, instances, no changing world, no meaningful interaction with the environment, nothing to do besides combat. The only persistent aspect being player characters, and even that has ceased to be a feature not found is simple multiplayer games.
Sure, its a decent mmo for the console, but the PC ? This should not be encouraged.
*Hides*
P.S. Objective discussion on the topic of inherently subjective recreational experiences. Really ?
STO is as much an MMO as Guildwars is... except you pay more for STO's box, a monthly sub (if you are going to play past a month) and microtransactions on top (don't kid yourselves, they'll be coming).
I've had no problems enjoying the game for what it is, some 30 hours worth of content which I've played through to hit the max with nothing more than pvp or generic 'exploration' missions to do. Worth the box... nah, I really should have had the discipline to cancel my pre-order having played open beta.
The OP got it right, it is a battle action game with some light-weight RPG elements. If this was named 'Space-battles online' and had the same game but no ST references it would be considered an utter abortion of a game. The IP rescues it as people are passionate about Star Trek and will overlook many a problem as a result.
If Cryptic hold back the 'raidisodes?' in the hopes that people will subscribe to see this extra content they are going to be in for a shock of AoC & War proportions. Imho STO is more of a fail than either at this point in time, the tragic thing is that is has probably made Cryptic an eff-ton of money already.
That said, I sincerely hope the devs can improve the game to a point where I would consider coming back in 6 months or so to see how it is doing, but I feel it is more likely there will be other proper mmos out by then more deserving of my money.
Well, I was hoping for more factual information, and less discussion and opinions. My idea was to have a non-flame thread where someone could see what STO was in fact, instead of a bunch of "I hate/love the game" posts. Things I would still like to see answered:
PvP -- when you win against an opponent, what happens? Do you loot them? or get some kind of PvP points? What is the reward and motivation for PvP? To protect an area?
What is there to do in STO? -- Is it all combat? What else is there to do, actually? Can you land on planets to explore? Gather resources? Build housing? Build ships? Mine asteroids? Salvage space junk?
What is the community like? -- A big part of online games is the community, and some games seem to have definite types of communities. What type of community does STO have? Are there central meeting zones where you can mingle with other players in a non-combat situation?
Sure there are downsides to instances, but there are upsides too, you always have people online to play with, that there are hundreds of good guilds, instead of 1-2 who dominate endgame on your server. Your also always going to be on the same server as your friends are, even if you started the game independently from each other and also you or your guild can make a name for yourself, you have a identity. If your rocketeer in STO(im not), its the only rocketeer in STO. Also the game feels never empty, and never crowded either. You always have a nice amount of people around you, and that includes 2am in the morning when you get home from nightshift on a weekday.
All true, instances do have advantages but in STO I think they cross the line and people fairly question if it is an MMORPG as a result. For one, there is absolutely no persistent world in STO, absolutely NONE. STO is simply a series of maps you load to and from, with a few of these maps serving as 50 person hubs or lobbies.
Nobody questions that WoW is a mmorpg. Based on what? Because you can meet more than 50 people at one time in dalaraan? Thats it? Im a eve person. Calling WoW a Massive Multiplayer online role playing game seems laughable to me, you probably dont even have 2k people on your average server, and most of the time only a fraction of them are online.
90% of your time in WoW, the time where you actually do stuff, your either in a battleground, a arena, or an pve group/raid dungeon. The entirety of the actual gameplay is instanced, the mere fact that there are places where you can theoretically stand around with more than 40 people doing ... well nothing really, makes this a mmorpg? Thats ridiculous, obviously WoW is a mmorpg, and instances have nothong to do with that.
It is not the instancing alone that made guildwars or hellgate: London questionable as a MMORPGs, its the fact that they used private instances. Every quest in those games happens in its own private instance, you never met other people during the actual quests, which is not thecase with STO. Not all instances are private here, some are, just like in WoW or every game that uses instances at all, but there are plenty of open instances which is imho the defining difference.
The whole discussion how much instancing is allowed is pointless, its personal preference. Either we say a game can be a mmorpg and have instances, or we say not having instances is the defining factor for being a mmorpg. Saying its fine for wow to have the complete endgame happen in instances, but its not fine for STO to use open instances for lvling is hypocrisy. You may not like it, but that doesnt make hard facts.
My personal definition for a mmorpg is
a) it has a inordinate number of players, you meet people you have never seen before on a daily basis.
b) you can and will unexpectatly meet with people outside of your control while following the games content(i.e. that guy snatching a harvest resource or mob away from you)
c) it has a persistant world as far as characters are concerned(your char in counterstrike for example only exists while your online on the server).
d) there is a character progression happening, furthering your character(his power/wealth/abilities) is central to the game.
e) there are goals that are grouporiented, be that pvp or pve, but the forming of groups(not just talking about the dungeon kind, but the "group of people" kind) is encouraged and serves the furthering of ingame goals.
You notice that instancing doesnt get mentioned there, with good reason. Instances can be massive in player size(they are not in STO, but theoretically they can), instances can be multiplayer, instances can be online, instances do not hinder roleplaying. There is absolutely nothing that says anywhere that instances and MMORPGs do not go together, infact i reiterate that the different servers in wow are basicly only instances of each other. If you say small instances and MMORPGs do not go together i might even cede that point, but that wouldnt quantify what small is either.
What if STO would include a single zone without instancing, or with a instance with alot more than the 50 players it currently has? Would that make it instantly cross the boundary from action mo to mmorpg? A singular distinction like that makes no sense and should imho be avoided, if you have to put a fixed number(like the amount of people minimum per instance) into your definition something is probably wrong with it.
Well, I was hoping for more factual information, and less discussion and opinions. My idea was to have a non-flame thread where someone could see what STO was in fact, instead of a bunch of "I hate/love the game" posts. Things I would still like to see answered:
PvP -- when you win against an opponent, what happens? Do you loot them? or get some kind of PvP points? What is the reward and motivation for PvP? To protect an area?
What is there to do in STO? -- Is it all combat? What else is there to do, actually? Can you land on planets to explore? Gather resources? Build housing? Build ships? Mine asteroids? Salvage space junk?
What is the community like? -- A big part of online games is the community, and some games seem to have definite types of communities. What type of community does STO have? Are there central meeting zones where you can mingle with other players in a non-combat situation?
PvP - Nothing happens when you defeat an opponent, you may get some skillpoints/bridge officer points and maybe badges(?) but I have never gotten any loot for it. There is no other reward or motivation as the outcome of a PvP instance is nothing beside some exp points and currencies in various forms. Territorial control does not exist.
Things to do - Finish missions. Game is entirely made up of jumping from one mission to the next with a few fleet action instances (a mission that repeats itself over and over). No mining, no housing, no building anything. You can scan anamolies in which turn you can turn in to an NPC to get equipment mods.
Community - Well not sure really as everything is instanced I dont think there is a central zone to meet people. The closest I can think of are the starbases, but they are instanced too. There are fleets (guilds) you can form and join, but havent seen a reason for doing so as there really is no need to team up to do anything in this game. Everything can either be soloed or done in auto-grouped teams.
Ok hang on..... lets get this straight your telilng me the reason they went instance zones is to cut back on server stabiilty and lag due to high amount of people in one area? Ummm anyone remember eq 1? Back in the old days of Dial-up? I can remember countless times where I would do /who (zone) and show up 300+ people in an area. And I didn't lag even during epic battles lets say during nagafen where there 80 people in the area. Fought nagafen and all the fire giants without lagging without crashing. Being hit by his dragon breath weapon and his dragon roar (Fear) and still didn't lag.....
Well my trusty old 386SX also didnt lag when i played pong, yet my current machine cant run the new max payne 2 at max details, so yeah maybe your on to something there.
The reason they went instanced zones is that they only run one server, like eve. 300k people dont fit anymore on one STO server than they would on one WoW server. Once you had 5k+ people in dalaran you would beg for instances, cause you couldnt see the ground, or npcs, or well anything besides other players. And thats assuming 0 lag.
You either play in neat little packages of a a few k people per server, or you do massive instances(or the way eve did it with decentralizing, which wouldnt work in STO since earth is always the center). Personally i take the instances over the server approach, mostly because i hate being stuck on the wrong server(and your always on the wrong server, the dieing one with the crappy community and the horrible pvp balance where your side always looses). Warhammer pretty much showed why the server approach doesnt really work very well for anyone but blizzard, and even they have servers that are pretty much dead these days.
Sure there are downsides to instances, but there are upsides too, you always have people online to play with, that there are hundreds of good guilds, instead of 1-2 who dominate endgame on your server. Your also always going to be on the same server as your friends are, even if you started the game independently from each other and also you or your guild can make a name for yourself, you have a identity. If your rocketeer in STO(im not), its the only rocketeer in STO. Also the game feels never empty, and never crowded either. You always have a nice amount of people around you, and that includes 2am in the morning when you get home from nightshift on a weekday.
The best part about
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Well, I was hoping for more factual information, and less discussion and opinions. My idea was to have a non-flame thread where someone could see what STO was in fact, instead of a bunch of "I hate/love the game" posts. Things I would still like to see answered:
PvP -- when you win against an opponent, what happens? Do you loot them? or get some kind of PvP points? What is the reward and motivation for PvP? To protect an area? Winning and to lesser degree loosing in pvp awards the same rewards as does normal missions, unless my memory is playing tricks on me you get a mission upon entering a pvp instance, and completing that mission rewards regular awards. Im not sure about the mission part, but you definitly gain the rewards as if you had compelted the mission.
What is there to do in STO? -- Is it all combat? What else is there to do, actually? Can you land on planets to explore? Gather resources? Build housing? Build ships? Mine asteroids? Salvage space junk? STO atm is completly about doing missions. The only crafting there is, is the upgrading of storebought(or found) white items into items of much higher quality by means of the resources you collected and a npc you hand both of these components over. The npc have a progression, and higher quality items require x amount of transaction with the npc and lower quality items.
What is the community like? -- A big part of online games is the community, and some games seem to have definite types of communities. What type of community does STO have? Are there central meeting zones where you can mingle with other players in a non-combat situation? There are faction owned spacedocks, like the one on earth or DS9. Im not sure what constitutes mingleing in your mind but if its some form of less embaressing roleplay you can do that there. The community is unremarkable, which is good considering its usually the bad apples that stand out. Just dont ask where sulu is.
Its a good idea to only post a fact thread if your sure about your facts, if you have to ask these kind of questions you probably shouldnt post the fact thread. Its considered polite to actually play a game before you start explaining facts about it to those who do.
Edit: There are also pvp points, which can be used to buy items.
Aye, and it is an important distinction to be made as everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, in this game occurs in small instances with an average population of 20 people. Completely false. So if people come here and expect large zones with houndreds of people, they will be dissapointed. This game actually takes it one more step than in CO because in that game there was rather large instanced zones where as here the zones are small and short lived. This is the main reason why I dont think PvP territorial control is possible in this game. How can you have territorial control over a bunch of instances? Fleet X control instance #2 and Fleet Y control instance #4?
Average of 20 people per instance is completely false? Really, what is the average population then? In my experience it is even lower than that as some has only 3-4 people in them and some I was completely alone.
Aye, and it is an important distinction to be made as everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, in this game occurs in small instances with an average population of 20 people. Completely false. So if people come here and expect large zones with houndreds of people, they will be dissapointed. This game actually takes it one more step than in CO because in that game there was rather large instanced zones where as here the zones are small and short lived. This is the main reason why I dont think PvP territorial control is possible in this game. How can you have territorial control over a bunch of instances? Fleet X control instance #2 and Fleet Y control instance #4?
Average of 20 people per instance is completely false? Really, what is the average population then? In my experience it is even lower than that as some has only 3-4 people in them and some I was completely alone.
Saying completely false, does not make it so.
I think the completly false was aimed more at the EVERYTHING than the average. Shared combat instances that are not fleetaction do have usually 1-6 people in them in my experience, while social instances like the spacedock on earth obviously operate at the much higher maximum number.
Obviously building a average out of these two numbers makes little sense.
He asked for facts not opinion. There is a max of 50 players per instance. No this is not a traditional MMORPG for numerous reasons. Weather those reasons make the game good or bad is for each individual to decide. The OP is correct, sorry. As a reference Guild Wars had instances as well to help reduce the lag, the difference is that even Guild Wars had a cap of 250 per instance. As far as it's an MMORPG, that seems to be opinion as many disagree. Even the developers of GW stated they don't consider GW's an MMO, most gamers don't consider GW's an MMO, yet most people seem to agree that GW's is more of an MMO than STO is. So again, he asked for facts not opinions. Stating that STO is a MMORPG is an opinion, and not a widely shared one. Me stating that it is not, is still an opinion even though it's one that seems to be shared by more people. So lets just stick with the facts. Well then if either answer is an opinion, then why ask the question in a "fact" thread? According to the makers of the game it is an MMORPG. According to this webiste, it is an MMORPG. Adding the word "traditional" to it turns it into an open ended question where only opinions can be given. In the end there are 2 things to do. Click blinkies and combat. The exploration was a concept many enjoyed on papaer not sure how many still enjoy it now that it's been revealed to be nothing more than click blinkies and combat as well. No it is not just click blinkies and combat. Only someone who has not played the game or ignored that part would say something like that. Whether or not you enjoy it is irrelevant. This is supposed to be a "fact" thread remember? There is more than just combat in this game. I already provided the person you needed to talk to if you want to explore. The OP clearly wanted personal bias out of this thread since we already have enough of "This game sucks/is aweswome" threads. Can we at least have one thread in this site that isn't a big circle jerk of hate?
As far as weather or not STO is an MMO or not, it's all opinion. 50 people in an instance isn't massive, well to most people. The limited amount of needed grouping is another. You will find most seem to not consider STO an MMO. And as far as this site considering it an MMO... again it depends on who you ask.
STO being an MMO is a matter of opinion. I'll let you decide which is the more popular opinion. Bottom line though is, it's all opinion.
I stated fact, I played from closed beta till around open. You click blinkies or engage in combat. Even exploration is click blinky or engage in combat. Scanning an anomaly is still clicking a blinky.
This wasn't opinion lol. It's the same system they use in CO.
Comments
I can see your point of view, I just don't agree with it. To me, the over instancing of the game kills any type of immersion and get best be described as a co-op RPG, because there is no "massive" in this game. I think many MMO players would argue the fact of factual vs subjective negative when comes to instances in an MMO. I would think players would want an open world/space rather than small confined space with a limit of 50 or so people. I could be wrong....Until further evidence is shown, I guess we won't know.
Ive been playing MMO's for almost 15 years. When i said you can kill one enemy ship outa 9 and come back rinse repeat it was just an example that it is something you "can" do. Please tell me when you have been going around somewhere and seen anyone in trouble?
PVP - meaningless with no effect on the "game" you get exp and money
Klingon content - In this day and age for a company to release a whole faction not even partially done is quite pathetic. Why should customers have to pay a subscription when half the game is missing? I am NOT talking about adding content over the next 6 months to a year.
This is my major gripe with the game. When a company can release a product that is partially finnished and everyone buys it and just go "they are gonna add it later". It makes it OK for other company's to do the same thing. Soon we will start seeing games released with content from lvl 1-10 and the rest will be added "later" while everyone pays a monthly sub.
My only other major issue is cash shop plus monthy sub. I do not see cryptic being the type of company that will not add game altering items to the cash shop. At this time they removed content from the game to add it to cash shop at "RELEASE". If your game is 60% ready for release how can they justify removing a portion of that to put into the cash shop?
Never have is a bit harsh since we do not know what the future holds. The lack of territorial control and persistant actions I think will be molre do to IP limitations than game limitations. I have worked with Paramount and they are a pain in the behnind over the Star Trek IP.
I can see however an expansion of the exploration system as it fits into the ST IP.
As for the fact you say those things can be changed in EVE you are wrong. A change of those features would result in a lose of the game. A new game would in effect be made.
At the end of the day however comparing EVE and STO does not work well for either side. STO is IP limited in scope while EVE is not. EVE is a multi year MATURE MMO while STO is a new release.
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I have a soap box and I am not afraid to use it.
I do not consider this a traditional MMO simply because it lacks a persistant world that for me defines an MMO. That does not mean a game can use instancing but it can not be the entire game. STO plays exactly like guild wars does. I am not going to pay $14.99 a month for this type of game play. If it was free to play like Guild Wars then maybe but this game offers very little to be charging a monthly sub for.
We will see I am not sure todays gamer is going to stick around for this type of game play let only pay a montly sub for, I guess we will see 3 months from now by looking at the player population or lack there of which I suspect will be the case.
Never have is a bit harsh since we do not know what the future holds. The lack of territorial control and persistant actions I think will be molre do to IP limitations than game limitations. I have worked with Paramount and they are a pain in the behnind over the Star Trek IP.
I can see however an expansion of the exploration system as it fits into the ST IP.
As for the fact you say those things can be changed in EVE you are wrong. A change of those features would result in a lose of the game. A new game would in effect be made.
At the end of the day however comparing EVE and STO does not work well for either side. STO is IP limited in scope while EVE is not. EVE is a multi year MATURE MMO while STO is a new release.
If people like EVE better than they should go play EVE. Just like anyone that complains a fantasy game isn't more like World of Warcraft should go play World of Warcraft.
So really,STO is nothing like EVE for which I am grateful.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I disagree with the orange bit. EVE's skill system benefits those with busy lives. You dont have to actually play the game in order to advance, skill-wise.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Never have is a bit harsh since we do not know what the future holds. The lack of territorial control and persistant actions I think will be molre do to IP limitations than game limitations. I have worked with Paramount and they are a pain in the behnind over the Star Trek IP.
I can see however an expansion of the exploration system as it fits into the ST IP.
As for the fact you say those things can be changed in EVE you are wrong. A change of those features would result in a lose of the game. A new game would in effect be made.
At the end of the day however comparing EVE and STO does not work well for either side. STO is IP limited in scope while EVE is not. EVE is a multi year MATURE MMO while STO is a new release.
If people like EVE better than they should go play EVE. Just like anyone that complains a fantasy game isn't more like World of Warcraft should go play World of Warcraft.
So really,STO is nothing like EVE for which I am grateful.
don't beat about the bush, just tell it straight, you dont like Eve... and by the sound of it.. didnt really understand it either... Understandable, after all Eve is a niche game and the challenges are not to everyones taste, and it appears not being able to see their own feet is a major problem for them
I disagree with the orange bit. EVE's skill system benefits those with busy lives. You dont have to actually play the game in order to advance, skill-wise.
Yeah but you could have spent years logging on just you keep your skills going and then one day you decide to play and you don't have a single clue of what to do. Eve does require a more significant sacrifice of personal time compared to other MMOs to really advance and be successful in the game.
don't beat about the bush, just tell it straight, you dont like Eve... and by the sound of it.. didnt really understand it either... Understandable, after all Eve is a niche game and the challenges are not to everyones taste, and it appears not being able to see their own feet is a major problem for them
You're right, EVE isn't my type of game. The difference with me is I don't spend time on the EVE forums whining about it. I let the people who like the game discuss important issues with it instead of having to deal with thread after thread of "EVE should be more like STO."
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I can see your point of view, I just don't agree with it. To me, the over instancing of the game kills any type of immersion and get best be described as a co-op RPG, because there is no "massive" in this game. I think many MMO players would argue the fact of factual vs subjective negative when comes to instances in an MMO. I would think players would want an open world/space rather than small confined space with a limit of 50 or so people. I could be wrong....Until further evidence is shown, I guess we won't know.
Again, that is a subjective negative rather than a factual negative.
Consensus does not matter when it comes to factuality of a statement. If almost every person stated that the Earth was flat, they would all be wrong as has been factually proven.
don't beat about the bush, just tell it straight, you dont like Eve... and by the sound of it.. didnt really understand it either... Understandable, after all Eve is a niche game and the challenges are not to everyones taste, and it appears not being able to see their own feet is a major problem for them
You're right, EVE isn't my type of game. The difference with me is I don't spend time on the EVE forums whining about it. I let the people who like the game discuss important issues with it instead of having to deal with thread after thread of "EVE should be more like STO."
These posters who come on this forum and state, "STO should be more like EvE!" or "STO isn't anything like EvE!" need to go back to the EvE forums then and leave STO forums alone.
Never have is a bit harsh since we do not know what the future holds. The lack of territorial control and persistant actions I think will be molre do to IP limitations than game limitations. I have worked with Paramount and they are a pain in the behnind over the Star Trek IP.
Huh? It's a war! How can you have a war without territorial control? You mean that Paramount are ok with there being a war between Klingon and Feds but not you actually fighting that war?
I can see however an expansion of the exploration system as it fits into the ST IP.
I dont think it is possible with their current system architecture. The game consists of 40-50 so static instanced zones, each being too small to have any real exploration, so the only way to add exploration content is to add more instanced zones and it is not possible to add enough of those zones to have any real exploration. You need vast areas to have exploration and that seems not technically viable with their engine. CO didnt have large zones either, even though their zones were larger than STOs, strangely enough.
As for the fact you say those things can be changed in EVE you are wrong. A change of those features would result in a lose of the game. A new game would in effect be made.
I didnt say EVE had to be changed but rather the basics of Eve could be used to create a new game, one which is alot more Star Trek than what Cryptic has produced. I.e. a huge sandbox world where exploration is actually feasible. I have played Eve for almost 10 months, total, and I cant say I have been in more than 25% of all the zones they have.
At the end of the day however comparing EVE and STO does not work well for either side. STO is IP limited in scope while EVE is not. EVE is a multi year MATURE MMO while STO is a new release.
Now that is completely laughable. Saying that STO is limited by its IP, which is one of the hugest IPs ever made, would be like saying that LOTRO is limited by Tolkiens vast and rich IP. There is no way to create an MMORPG that spans over those massive IPs so it is rather the other way around.
Star Trek has tons of different proffessions, races, cultures, languages, worlds, sectors, ships, technologies and so on that to say that STO is limited by it is just making excuses for what little Cryptic has produced. Star Trek is richer in depth than Star Wars yet SWG, pre NGE, had much, much more things to do than in STO. Heck you could create player run towns in that game and there is nothing in the Star Trek IP saying that you could not create settlements. The Star Trek IP is NOT limited to Starfleet.
don't beat about the bush, just tell it straight, you dont like Eve... and by the sound of it.. didnt really understand it either... Understandable, after all Eve is a niche game and the challenges are not to everyones taste, and it appears not being able to see their own feet is a major problem for them
You're right, EVE isn't my type of game. The difference with me is I don't spend time on the EVE forums whining about it. I let the people who like the game discuss important issues with it instead of having to deal with thread after thread of "EVE should be more like STO."
These posters who come on this forum and state, "STO should be more like EvE!" or "STO isn't anything like EvE!" need to go back to the EvE forums then and leave STO forums alone.
Really, what if you play *gasp* both games?
I am a, somewhat, Star Trek fan so I have every right to be in this forum and criticize the poor job Cryptic has done to this magnificent IP.
I dont want STO to be like Eve, I want STO to be like Star Trek. Imagine that.
All true, instances do have advantages but in STO I think they cross the line and people fairly question if it is an MMORPG as a result. For one, there is absolutely no persistent world in STO, absolutely NONE. STO is simply a series of maps you load to and from, with a few of these maps serving as 50 person hubs or lobbies.
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Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
STO is a MMORPG in the same way as Diablo 2 is ! Static maps, instances, no changing world, no meaningful interaction with the environment, nothing to do besides combat. The only persistent aspect being player characters, and even that has ceased to be a feature not found is simple multiplayer games.
Sure, its a decent mmo for the console, but the PC ? This should not be encouraged.
*Hides*
P.S. Objective discussion on the topic of inherently subjective recreational experiences. Really ?
- Shijeer
Well olepi, it was a good try anyway.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
STO is as much an MMO as Guildwars is... except you pay more for STO's box, a monthly sub (if you are going to play past a month) and microtransactions on top (don't kid yourselves, they'll be coming).
I've had no problems enjoying the game for what it is, some 30 hours worth of content which I've played through to hit the max with nothing more than pvp or generic 'exploration' missions to do. Worth the box... nah, I really should have had the discipline to cancel my pre-order having played open beta.
The OP got it right, it is a battle action game with some light-weight RPG elements. If this was named 'Space-battles online' and had the same game but no ST references it would be considered an utter abortion of a game. The IP rescues it as people are passionate about Star Trek and will overlook many a problem as a result.
If Cryptic hold back the 'raidisodes?' in the hopes that people will subscribe to see this extra content they are going to be in for a shock of AoC & War proportions. Imho STO is more of a fail than either at this point in time, the tragic thing is that is has probably made Cryptic an eff-ton of money already.
That said, I sincerely hope the devs can improve the game to a point where I would consider coming back in 6 months or so to see how it is doing, but I feel it is more likely there will be other proper mmos out by then more deserving of my money.
Well, I was hoping for more factual information, and less discussion and opinions. My idea was to have a non-flame thread where someone could see what STO was in fact, instead of a bunch of "I hate/love the game" posts. Things I would still like to see answered:
PvP -- when you win against an opponent, what happens? Do you loot them? or get some kind of PvP points? What is the reward and motivation for PvP? To protect an area?
What is there to do in STO? -- Is it all combat? What else is there to do, actually? Can you land on planets to explore? Gather resources? Build housing? Build ships? Mine asteroids? Salvage space junk?
What is the community like? -- A big part of online games is the community, and some games seem to have definite types of communities. What type of community does STO have? Are there central meeting zones where you can mingle with other players in a non-combat situation?
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2025: 48 years on the Net.
All true, instances do have advantages but in STO I think they cross the line and people fairly question if it is an MMORPG as a result. For one, there is absolutely no persistent world in STO, absolutely NONE. STO is simply a series of maps you load to and from, with a few of these maps serving as 50 person hubs or lobbies.
Nobody questions that WoW is a mmorpg. Based on what? Because you can meet more than 50 people at one time in dalaraan? Thats it? Im a eve person. Calling WoW a Massive Multiplayer online role playing game seems laughable to me, you probably dont even have 2k people on your average server, and most of the time only a fraction of them are online.
90% of your time in WoW, the time where you actually do stuff, your either in a battleground, a arena, or an pve group/raid dungeon. The entirety of the actual gameplay is instanced, the mere fact that there are places where you can theoretically stand around with more than 40 people doing ... well nothing really, makes this a mmorpg? Thats ridiculous, obviously WoW is a mmorpg, and instances have nothong to do with that.
It is not the instancing alone that made guildwars or hellgate: London questionable as a MMORPGs, its the fact that they used private instances. Every quest in those games happens in its own private instance, you never met other people during the actual quests, which is not the case with STO. Not all instances are private here, some are, just like in WoW or every game that uses instances at all, but there are plenty of open instances which is imho the defining difference.
The whole discussion how much instancing is allowed is pointless, its personal preference. Either we say a game can be a mmorpg and have instances, or we say not having instances is the defining factor for being a mmorpg. Saying its fine for wow to have the complete endgame happen in instances, but its not fine for STO to use open instances for lvling is hypocrisy. You may not like it, but that doesnt make hard facts.
My personal definition for a mmorpg is
a) it has a inordinate number of players, you meet people you have never seen before on a daily basis.
b) you can and will unexpectatly meet with people outside of your control while following the games content(i.e. that guy snatching a harvest resource or mob away from you)
c) it has a persistant world as far as characters are concerned(your char in counterstrike for example only exists while your online on the server).
d) there is a character progression happening, furthering your character(his power/wealth/abilities) is central to the game.
e) there are goals that are grouporiented, be that pvp or pve, but the forming of groups(not just talking about the dungeon kind, but the "group of people" kind) is encouraged and serves the furthering of ingame goals.
You notice that instancing doesnt get mentioned there, with good reason. Instances can be massive in player size(they are not in STO, but theoretically they can), instances can be multiplayer, instances can be online, instances do not hinder roleplaying. There is absolutely nothing that says anywhere that instances and MMORPGs do not go together, infact i reiterate that the different servers in wow are basicly only instances of each other. If you say small instances and MMORPGs do not go together i might even cede that point, but that wouldnt quantify what small is either.
What if STO would include a single zone without instancing, or with a instance with alot more than the 50 players it currently has? Would that make it instantly cross the boundary from action mo to mmorpg? A singular distinction like that makes no sense and should imho be avoided, if you have to put a fixed number(like the amount of people minimum per instance) into your definition something is probably wrong with it.
Well, I was hoping for more factual information, and less discussion and opinions. My idea was to have a non-flame thread where someone could see what STO was in fact, instead of a bunch of "I hate/love the game" posts. Things I would still like to see answered:
PvP -- when you win against an opponent, what happens? Do you loot them? or get some kind of PvP points? What is the reward and motivation for PvP? To protect an area?
What is there to do in STO? -- Is it all combat? What else is there to do, actually? Can you land on planets to explore? Gather resources? Build housing? Build ships? Mine asteroids? Salvage space junk?
What is the community like? -- A big part of online games is the community, and some games seem to have definite types of communities. What type of community does STO have? Are there central meeting zones where you can mingle with other players in a non-combat situation?
PvP - Nothing happens when you defeat an opponent, you may get some skillpoints/bridge officer points and maybe badges(?) but I have never gotten any loot for it. There is no other reward or motivation as the outcome of a PvP instance is nothing beside some exp points and currencies in various forms. Territorial control does not exist.
Things to do - Finish missions. Game is entirely made up of jumping from one mission to the next with a few fleet action instances (a mission that repeats itself over and over). No mining, no housing, no building anything. You can scan anamolies in which turn you can turn in to an NPC to get equipment mods.
Community - Well not sure really as everything is instanced I dont think there is a central zone to meet people. The closest I can think of are the starbases, but they are instanced too. There are fleets (guilds) you can form and join, but havent seen a reason for doing so as there really is no need to team up to do anything in this game. Everything can either be soloed or done in auto-grouped teams.
Well my trusty old 386SX also didnt lag when i played pong, yet my current machine cant run the new max payne 2 at max details, so yeah maybe your on to something there.
The reason they went instanced zones is that they only run one server, like eve. 300k people dont fit anymore on one STO server than they would on one WoW server. Once you had 5k+ people in dalaran you would beg for instances, cause you couldnt see the ground, or npcs, or well anything besides other players. And thats assuming 0 lag.
You either play in neat little packages of a a few k people per server, or you do massive instances(or the way eve did it with decentralizing, which wouldnt work in STO since earth is always the center). Personally i take the instances over the server approach, mostly because i hate being stuck on the wrong server(and your always on the wrong server, the dieing one with the crappy community and the horrible pvp balance where your side always looses). Warhammer pretty much showed why the server approach doesnt really work very well for anyone but blizzard, and even they have servers that are pretty much dead these days.
Sure there are downsides to instances, but there are upsides too, you always have people online to play with, that there are hundreds of good guilds, instead of 1-2 who dominate endgame on your server. Your also always going to be on the same server as your friends are, even if you started the game independently from each other and also you or your guild can make a name for yourself, you have a identity. If your rocketeer in STO(im not), its the only rocketeer in STO. Also the game feels never empty, and never crowded either. You always have a nice amount of people around you, and that includes 2am in the morning when you get home from nightshift on a weekday.
The best part about
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Well, I was hoping for more factual information, and less discussion and opinions. My idea was to have a non-flame thread where someone could see what STO was in fact, instead of a bunch of "I hate/love the game" posts. Things I would still like to see answered:
PvP -- when you win against an opponent, what happens? Do you loot them? or get some kind of PvP points? What is the reward and motivation for PvP? To protect an area? Winning and to lesser degree loosing in pvp awards the same rewards as does normal missions, unless my memory is playing tricks on me you get a mission upon entering a pvp instance, and completing that mission rewards regular awards. Im not sure about the mission part, but you definitly gain the rewards as if you had compelted the mission.
What is there to do in STO? -- Is it all combat? What else is there to do, actually? Can you land on planets to explore? Gather resources? Build housing? Build ships? Mine asteroids? Salvage space junk? STO atm is completly about doing missions. The only crafting there is, is the upgrading of storebought(or found) white items into items of much higher quality by means of the resources you collected and a npc you hand both of these components over. The npc have a progression, and higher quality items require x amount of transaction with the npc and lower quality items.
What is the community like? -- A big part of online games is the community, and some games seem to have definite types of communities. What type of community does STO have? Are there central meeting zones where you can mingle with other players in a non-combat situation? There are faction owned spacedocks, like the one on earth or DS9. Im not sure what constitutes mingleing in your mind but if its some form of less embaressing roleplay you can do that there. The community is unremarkable, which is good considering its usually the bad apples that stand out. Just dont ask where sulu is.
Its a good idea to only post a fact thread if your sure about your facts, if you have to ask these kind of questions you probably shouldnt post the fact thread. Its considered polite to actually play a game before you start explaining facts about it to those who do.
Edit: There are also pvp points, which can be used to buy items.
Average of 20 people per instance is completely false? Really, what is the average population then? In my experience it is even lower than that as some has only 3-4 people in them and some I was completely alone.
Saying completely false, does not make it so.
Average of 20 people per instance is completely false? Really, what is the average population then? In my experience it is even lower than that as some has only 3-4 people in them and some I was completely alone.
Saying completely false, does not make it so.
I think the completly false was aimed more at the EVERYTHING than the average. Shared combat instances that are not fleetaction do have usually 1-6 people in them in my experience, while social instances like the spacedock on earth obviously operate at the much higher maximum number.
Obviously building a average out of these two numbers makes little sense.
As far as weather or not STO is an MMO or not, it's all opinion. 50 people in an instance isn't massive, well to most people. The limited amount of needed grouping is another. You will find most seem to not consider STO an MMO. And as far as this site considering it an MMO... again it depends on who you ask.
Again http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/staffblog/102009/4897_Definition-Insanity-What-is-an-MMO
STO being an MMO is a matter of opinion. I'll let you decide which is the more popular opinion. Bottom line though is, it's all opinion.
I stated fact, I played from closed beta till around open. You click blinkies or engage in combat. Even exploration is click blinky or engage in combat. Scanning an anomaly is still clicking a blinky.
This wasn't opinion lol. It's the same system they use in CO.