The zones are 50 players max. We couldn't get even a large share of the fleet I was with into a single zone to socialize. This is not an MMOG. MMOGs are social spaces - without the 'social' it would be a single player game with online play. a) Completely false. I saw a few instances in Earth Space Dock last night that had 55 to 60. So, the max for zones is not 50. Also, Space docks = social hubs. Social hubs = place where people can trade and talk. If it is your requirement for social areas to be in a game for it to be considered an MMORPG... well, STO is an MMORPG then. This IP could have been turned into something revolutionary - a MMOG done right could have literally replaced television as a vehicle for the Star Trek IP. Space is the final frontier, not a hyperlink to a planetpage. Picard's Enterprise had 42 decks with a total crew and passenger capacity of 1014. It was a self contained, self sustaining community of people. These Starships were massive. Star Trek is more a social drama than action flick - they spent maybe 10 minutes out of every other episode blowing crap up - the rest was politics, socialization, investigation, recreation etc. The major setting was the ship - 10 forward, sick bay, your quarters, the ready room, the holodeck, the cafeteria, the bridge. Star Trek took place there. I'm not suggesting that you could create a game exactly like the television show - no one wants to be ensign shoe-shine boy or ensign toilet scrubber, but the IP is in a large part social - you should be able to fit at least the same amount of people into one instance as one starship could hold. I mean, please - 50 people on Deep Space 9?? Quarks could hold more than 50 customers itself. I think that's what people are frustrated about with this game - they wanted to play Star Trek. They wanted to be immersed in the IP, to socialize inside the Star Trek universe. Everything about instances breaks that immersion. b) Subjective negative. Having your ship come to a dead standstill in hyperspace when you visit the bridge breaks that immersion. Having to back up just right and emote to sit in the captain's chair breaks that immersion. You feel like you're either flying a tiny little ship or running around in some free to play japanese grinder dressed in Star Trek shirts. And above and beyond all of that - you can't even socialize with a world of people. Did I mention we couldn't even fit one fleet into an instance?
a) No you didn't see 55-60 players in a zone; Screenshots or its just a lie - right now there are 20 zones up with at most, 17 players per zone at Sol System. When a zone fills up, it'll say "Full" on the "Choose an instance" screen - when the zone says "full" the instance # reads 50 Player. If they upped it to 60 this week, big whoop my point is still valid - it isn't "Massive" it's merely a single player game with an online option.
[Mod Edit]
I said Earth Spacedock not Sol System. Big difference there. I question when your screenshot was actually taken as I have definitely seen more than 17 ships hanging outside of spacedock during prime-time. Also, who are you to say that it "isn't massive"? Massive is a subjective term. It means different things to different people. Anyways, you are conveniently forgetting that anyone can trade with anyone in this game via exchange (including between factions) and anyone can talk to anyone else in the same zone regardless of whatever instance they are in. Sounds pretty "massive" to me despite being instanced.
50 or 60 is not "completely false", in the context of what he was saying 50 or 60 really is not the issue. The issue is that is not considered massive which leads me to your second point.
Your opinion that it "is not considered massive". Opinion is not the same as fact.
Massive is subjective but even in subjective terms you can find a common understanding for most people. Yeah sure, there will be some people who says that an adult who weighs 100 pounds is "massive" but generally that wont be the case for most people.
Consensus towards something does not make it fact. It is still subjective regardless.
Likewise, in this context, having a maximum of 50 (or 60) and an average of much lower is not considered massive by MMO standards.
Proof?
You may feel that playing in zones with 4-5 people, in small mission instances, or 30-40 in fleet actions or 50 in starbases is massive for you but I think it is a safe bet to say that it is not what most MMOG players label as massive amount of people.
Again, consensus means absolutely nothing to me. I really don't care what the majority thinks about what makes something "massive". It is subjective as there is no non-arbitrary quantitative measurement set in place to distinguish what makes a multiplayer game into a "Massive" MORPG.
And, if I actually cared what the majority thought, I would be playing WoW instead of any other MMORPG.
Personally i dont feel that having 50 people in my instance is massive. But if there are 2k people in my ZONE then yes, i think thats massive.
The zone number is what makes this massive, not the numbers in the instance. When i type "Hi" in zonechat and reach over 2k people, how can that not be considered massive? If i can get any item i want in the Exchange, because at any time there are probable a couple hundred interacting and selling stuff there(and im talking having the interface open and being busy listing stuff, not items listed) how can that not be massive?
Obviously its the chat linking all those people together, if you couldnt talk to other people just seeing them would be meaningless. As human communications are what is defining communitys. So you cant see all of them at all times(which you cant in any mmorpg), whats next you complain that you cant smell them or pinch their butts either?
Personally i dont feel that having 50 people in my instance is massive. But if there are 2k people in my ZONE then yes, i think thats massive. The zone number is what makes this massive, not the numbers in the instance. When i type "Hi" in zonechat and reach over 2k people, how can that not be considered massive? If i can get any item i want in the Exchange, because at any time there are probable a couple hundred interacting and selling stuff there(and im talking having the interface open and being busy listing stuff, not items listed) how can that not be massive? Obviously its the chat linking all those people together, if you couldnt talk to other people just seeing them would be meaningless. As human communications are what is defining communitys. So you cant see all of them at all times(which you cant in any mmorpg), whats next you complain that you cant smell them or pinch their butts either?
Exactly. The exchange, zone chat that includes all instances of the zone, and the mail system is exactly what this argument of "massiveness" should be about. However, the anti-STO crowd wants to argue on the narrow-sighted view of just instances.
Personally i dont feel that having 50 people in my instance is massive. But if there are 2k people in my ZONE then yes, i think thats massive. The zone number is what makes this massive, not the numbers in the instance. When i type "Hi" in zonechat and reach over 2k people, how can that not be considered massive? If i can get any item i want in the Exchange, because at any time there are probable a couple hundred interacting and selling stuff there(and im talking having the interface open and being busy listing stuff, not items listed) how can that not be massive? Obviously its the chat linking all those people together, if you couldnt talk to other people just seeing them would be meaningless. As human communications are what is defining communitys. So you cant see all of them at all times(which you cant in any mmorpg), whats next you complain that you cant smell them or pinch their butts either?
Exactly. The exchange, zone chat that includes all instances of the zone, and the mail system is exactly what this argument of "massiveness" should be about. However, the anti-STO crowd wants to argue on the narrow-sighted view of just instances.
So because you can chat in certain areas to over 100 or 1,000 people at a time, that makes the game "massive" hence MMO.. OK got ya..
Attention Yahoo game players.. you are now part of a MMO community.. woot woot.. and we even have cams too.. awesome..
trying to get back to the point of the thread, other facts about STO:
- Very very light crafting (if you can call it that). You gather stuff, go to an NPC with a normal item and your gathered stuff, turn it into item+.
- It is trekkie, for the most part. Ship designs (exclucing ship interiors), planets, star systems, items, races, episodes, it's all trekkie, except for the constant fighting that is not trekkie at all, where combat was more the exception than the rule.
- Good character customization. You can create all sorts of alien species. I've seen some very creative looking aliens.
- Bad direction. The game doesn't feel like it has a direction. Things like major changes to combat difficulty late in the testing process (making it too easy); to the whole skill system, which went from limitless to capped without modifying the underlying skill map. Almost feels like they're changing the game according to wherever the wind blows that day.
- Fast leveling. Whether you like this or not, it is fast. Even the most casual gamer should get to the current max level in less than 100 hours played. Experienced MMO players should get there in half that time, without using any exploits or shortcuts.
- It is stable. It was really bad during the first week, but right now (at least in my case) it hasn't crashed or disconnected in a long while.
- Complex (but underutilized) system. Different weapons with different levels and powers. Bridge officer abilities of 3 different types and different ranks, with ground and space abilities. Different ships with different weapon layouts and power settings. 3 different 'classes' for the PC, ship and BO customization. I said underutilized because, with the (lack of) difficulty in the game, it's not worth it as you can beat most fights by just spamming spacebar.
- Bad UI. Many of the skills and abilities are severely lacking in information so you are guessing a lot on what to select for what. Lack of weapon autofire will destroy your keyboard and/or your hand.
- No need for group. Unlike other MMOs, there really is no need, or even incentive, for grouping with others. Every ship is a self-contained destruction machine. No need for 'tanks' or 'healers' for any mission. The only incentive for grouping is in open area battles, so you have more chance of getting loot than those who don't group (as damage is added from all group members to decide who gets loot).
- Nothing to do at max level. Once you reach max level, all you can do is PvP, and repeat daily missions that are nothing special.
- Limited 'auction house'. You can set things for sale, but the interface is very limited right now (can't sort by anything, can't set auctions).
- No death penalty. When you die, you pop back with your ship (space) or team (ground) and can continue as if nothing happened.
Personally i dont feel that having 50 people in my instance is massive. But if there are 2k people in my ZONE then yes, i think thats massive. The zone number is what makes this massive, not the numbers in the instance. When i type "Hi" in zonechat and reach over 2k people, how can that not be considered massive? If i can get any item i want in the Exchange, because at any time there are probable a couple hundred interacting and selling stuff there(and im talking having the interface open and being busy listing stuff, not items listed) how can that not be massive? Obviously its the chat linking all those people together, if you couldnt talk to other people just seeing them would be meaningless. As human communications are what is defining communitys. So you cant see all of them at all times(which you cant in any mmorpg), whats next you complain that you cant smell them or pinch their butts either?
Exactly. The exchange, zone chat that includes all instances of the zone, and the mail system is exactly what this argument of "massiveness" should be about. However, the anti-STO crowd wants to argue on the narrow-sighted view of just instances.
So because you can chat in certain areas to over 100 or 1,000 people at a time, that makes the game "massive" hence MMO.. OK got ya..
Attention Yahoo game players.. you are now part of a MMO community.. woot woot.. and we even have cams too.. awesome..
Did you intentionally misread what I wrote?
I wrote that zone chat between ALL instances in a zone, the mail system, and the exchange (auction house) is what this argument of "massiveness" should be about. I did not just focus on chat, which you intentionally did and attempted to twist my words into being just about that.
And, I never wrote an exact, arbitrary figure for "massiveness" of a multi-player game, unlike all of the anti-STO groupies are trying to do to defame STO. Therefore, please stop trying to put words into my mouth (so-to-speak).
Therefore, stop trying to twist my words into something that I actually didn't type.
Im not sure about this game being so solofriendly. I currently do Defend sector mission in the sector north of earth, and i regularily run into groups of 1 dreadnaught, 2 BS, and cruisers and stuff there. No way in hell can i solo that at same lvl with a Tier 2 ship. I have seen T4 ships(which are +15-25 levels to me) get wiped by groups like that. I cant even scratch the shields on that dreadnaught and if the BS stun or tractor beam me(they like to do both) and that dreadnaught hits me with his frontBFG i go from full shields to half hull(you can imagine what happens if i get hit at half shields). Yeah it probably cant kill my science ship if i get it alone cause im way faster and have many survival related skills, but killing it?
Also even if i avoid dreads and do the regular missions, nowadays i sometimes have stuff like 3 of the stunning/tractoring BS with friends, and the small BoPs fire Highyield plasma torps like candy, and their big cruisers have a boost that lets them outrun me. If im stunned and my science team is on CD(only buff breaking the stun) it means death for me cause you cant even adjust shields or move during that stun and it doesnt take more than a couple torps for my hull to completly crumble.
And im already lasting alot longer than other players cause im a engineer and we have stuff like a 30 second -40% damage buff that regens shield(which frankly is awesome). Tactical officers(they get offense buffs) in an escort(they lack shields and defense oriented BO stations) are in for hell trying to solo at my lvl(not yet commander). I have seen them blown up in like 10 sec(stun, tractor, 5 HY torps impacting, dead).
Im not saying you cant solo, im seeing people doing it, but you have to pick your targets, and your better in the right ship with the right fitting and skills. And even then it will be much, much easier in a group even if they dont help each other. Good thing is that its usually easy to find someone to group with, i usually get 1-2 people if i ask in zonechat(the LFG tool is frankly crap).
Hmm didnt see that mentioned yet so here it goes: The npcs have pretty much the same abilities with the same strength that we players do, but racial limited. Fighting Hirogen is nothing like fighting romulans which is nothing like fighting borg etc. Alot of times in other mmos i had the feeling that most npc just run around melee or ranged autoattacking stuff(Eve or wow come to mind), and otherwise being exactly the same just with different skins and names. Sometimes they have a special ability or two, but not to the point that it actually would require you to change your tactics.
Its not until about mid LT commander that i saw the enemies actually use those abilities though, so there probably is some grace period till around lvl 15 i would say.
Facts abilities and skills:
Overall abilities in STO are more powerful than in WoW or eve, for example Tractor beams pretty much stop moving/turning/cloaking, stuns can last more than 15 sec if not broken(they do grant harsh immunity timers though) and abilities that affect an attack usually have extreme effects on the order of 2x-5x damage.
Damage reduction abilities go anywhere from 15%-80%, and run between 8-30 seconds, some are only for shields, some only for hull, some only vs certain damagetypes, you get it.
There are abilties that make beam weapons heal instead of hurt you, or reflect damage back, an AOE effect that make npc enemies attack each other instead of you/your team for 15-30 sec(for players everything becomes attackable, but your not forced to attack, alt tab=bad, selfheals suddenly affect target instead of targets target or self), or a target jam that prevents a single foe of targeting you for 10-20+ seconds and using any abilities/attacks against you that require you being in his target(basicly everything but PBAOE).
BO abilities have ranks, like skills in many mmorpgs, but here a BO can have rank I, II and III of the same ability at the same time if you want. There is a max of 4 abilites per BO(commander rank), the different ships have different limits on usuable rank abilites, but not on BOs themselves.
Abilities work differently here. Player skills(which are the minority) are affected only by your personal skills. BO skills(majority logically) have their Magnitude decided by the players skill, and their duration/recharge by the BOs skill. There are some rare exceptions to this where a skill has fixed duration/recharge, here the BO skill also affects the magnitude.
Most abilities scale in some way beyond the + from putting points in its corresponding skills. They either are atleast partly % based(my selfheal got stronger in my new ship), scale directly with items you can equip to your ship, or scale with a powersetting in their corresponding subsystem.
You can have more BO with you than your ship has stations for. For example i have 4 stations(1 weapons, 1 engineering, 2 science), but 8 BOs. I use different BOs when solo than i use in a team. Replacing a BO with another can be done anytime your not in combat.
Player skillpoints are limited, you reach a point where your maxlevel and stop earning them. BO skillpoints(which go into a pool instead of to an individual) are not, both have maxlevel in abilities though.
Fact- the game has a lot of bugs. They are being stamped out but they are there. And there are a lot of them.
Fact- there are a TON of broken quests. Some are perm broken, others require you to log out and back in or simply exit the instance and reenter for them to work. I have filed so many bug tickets the letters are wearing off my keyboard.
Fact - there is very little Klingon content.
Fact- the quests are, boiled down, very similar groupings of kill this, collect that, go scan that. (In my humble opinion that does not make them any less fun when they work.)
Fact - this game could have used a few more months in HEAVY beta testing before it was shoved out the door. Some suit out there needs a good swift kick in the pants.
On a personal note I like the game, a lot. I see them being able to fix fleet action, fix a lot of the broken quests, stamp out the bugs, polish up the Klingon content and get the game rolling. It just feels like it was released into the wild too soon.
So far without really playing that much (maybe 16 hours total since the game came out) i have one character at Rear Admiral and one at Lt Commander and thinking of starting a Klingon if they ever get any content. But the important part is I am still having fun. If you aren't try leaving and coming back when more of the game works.
Originally posted by Rocketeer Im not sure about this game being so solofriendly. I currently do Defend sector mission in the sector north of earth, and i regularily run into groups of 1 dreadnaught, 2 BS, and cruisers and stuff there. No way in hell can i solo that at same lvl with a Tier 2 ship. I have seen T4 ships(which are +15-25 levels to me) get wiped by groups like that. I cant even scratch the shields on that dreadnaught and if the BS stun or tractor beam me(they like to do both) and that dreadnaught hits me with his frontBFG i go from full shields to half hull(you can imagine what happens if i get hit at half shields). Yeah it probably cant kill my science ship if i get it alone cause im way faster and have many survival related skills, but killing it?
Also even if i avoid dreads and do the regular missions, nowadays i sometimes have stuff like 3 of the stunning/tractoring BS with friends, and the small BoPs fire Highyield plasma torps like candy, and their big cruisers have a boost that lets them outrun me. If im stunned and my science team is on CD(only buff breaking the stun) it means death for me cause you cant even adjust shields or move during that stun and it doesnt take more than a couple torps for my hull to completly crumble. And im already lasting alot longer than other players cause im a engineer and we have stuff like a 30 second -40% damage buff that regens shield(which frankly is awesome). Tactical officers(they get offense buffs) in an escort(they lack shields and defense oriented BO stations) are in for hell trying to solo at my lvl(not yet commander). I have seen them blown up in like 10 sec(stun, tractor, 5 HY torps impacting, dead). Im not saying you cant solo, im seeing people doing it, but you have to pick your targets, and your better in the right ship with the right fitting and skills. And even then it will be much, much easier in a group even if they dont help each other. Good thing is that its usually easy to find someone to group with, i usually get 1-2 people if i ask in zonechat(the LFG tool is frankly crap).
Hmm didnt see that mentioned yet so here it goes: The npcs have pretty much the same abilities with the same strength that we players do, but racial limited. Fighting Hirogen is nothing like fighting romulans which is nothing like fighting borg etc. Alot of times in other mmos i had the feeling that most npc just run around melee or ranged autoattacking stuff(Eve or wow come to mind), and otherwise being exactly the same just with different skins and names. Sometimes they have a special ability or two, but not to the point that it actually would require you to change your tactics. Its not until about mid LT commander that i saw the enemies actually use those abilities though, so there probably is some grace period till around lvl 15 i would say.
Facts abilities and skills: Overall abilities in STO are more powerful than in WoW or eve, for example Tractor beams pretty much stop moving/turning/cloaking, stuns can last more than 15 sec if not broken(they do grant harsh immunity timers though) and abilities that affect an attack usually have extreme effects on the order of 2x-5x damage. Damage reduction abilities go anywhere from 15%-80%, and run between 8-30 seconds, some are only for shields, some only for hull, some only vs certain damagetypes, you get it. There are abilties that make beam weapons heal instead of hurt you, or reflect damage back, an AOE effect that make npc enemies attack each other instead of you/your team for 15-30 sec(for players everything becomes attackable, but your not forced to attack, alt tab=bad, selfheals suddenly affect target instead of targets target or self), or a target jam that prevents a single foe of targeting you for 10-20+ seconds and using any abilities/attacks against you that require you being in his target(basicly everything but PBAOE). BO abilities have ranks, like skills in many mmorpgs, but here a BO can have rank I, II and III of the same ability at the same time if you want. There is a max of 4 abilites per BO(commander rank), the different ships have different limits on usuable rank abilites, but not on BOs themselves. Abilities work differently here. Player skills(which are the minority) are affected only by your personal skills. BO skills(majority logically) have their Magnitude decided by the players skill, and their duration/recharge by the BOs skill. There are some rare exceptions to this where a skill has fixed duration/recharge, here the BO skill also affects the magnitude. Most abilities scale in some way beyond the + from putting points in its corresponding skills. They either are atleast partly % based(my selfheal got stronger in my new ship), scale directly with items you can equip to your ship, or scale with a powersetting in their corresponding subsystem. You can have more BO with you than your ship has stations for. For example i have 4 stations(1 weapons, 1 engineering, 2 science), but 8 BOs. I use different BOs when solo than i use in a team. Replacing a BO with another can be done anytime your not in combat. Player skillpoints are limited, you reach a point where your maxlevel and stop earning them. BO skillpoints(which go into a pool instead of to an individual) are not, both have maxlevel in abilities though.
STO seems to have far more depth than I thought when I first started playing. Working the skill trees alone can be interesting after you learn the math and which skills bump other skills. Also, the gameplay itself seems very smooth and space combat is a blast.
The only thing from the OP that is a FACT is that there is no free trial. Everything else is conjecture or a game of semantics trying to give the appearance of facts.
I find it interesting how many people come to these forums with an objective of trolling and spreading hate for games ... which are after all ONLY games ... and are so persistent and passionate while doing so. The forums for this and every other game here, may be the basement of the MMORPG world.
It is a MMO game, you can swap instances and join others in a heartbeat. Massive, yes, Multiplayer, Yes, Online, Yes. Personally I don't want to see 500 ships around me when I am just travelling from A to B. Big battles can happen, and are less likely to fail due to lag because instancing splits up the load. This is an advantage, not a drawback for me.
As far as what to do.. I like the mixture of Ground and Space... some combat.. some exploring. The stories (if you read them) are on-theme and have some funny moments (bar fight was one of them for me). If your a power-grinder, skipping story content just to PvP later on, I suppose its boring. But if your just interested in a Star Trek-based adventure, you get one. Its a whole lot better than grinding 1000 space-bunnies kills... or travelling to 10 different systems for no reason. Its about conflict and discovery, and if you READ the story your 'discovering' information about the world you play in.. the fiction. You still get your XP and your reward when done... and thats why you do it in the first place. There IS variety... and that allows player to pick their 'grind' in whatever way they enjoy the most.
Roleplay is lacking because there are not a lot of 'social' activities.. yet. RP needs non-combat to stimulate character interaction. There are opportunities to grow here, if STO team puts some more features into ships and considers adding non-combat classes (traders/entertainers)... it would attrack a broader playerbase and encourage RP activity.
STO PvP is in its infancy.. and the Devs know that... so should most players. PvP is very likely to see some expansions and 'goal' based activities (defend the base) and rewards based on sucess. They wanted to lauch with BASIC PvP.. and they did.
I am playing for free right now. Buddy tokens... 10 day free trial... I am at LT9 after 4 days of play a bit every evening.
Plenty of harsh critism for a game that is just in its infancy. STO has enough features for the average (not power-grinder) player to find some fun and develop their characters a little while the Dev team works on the next expansion.
I am simply not that impatient that I cannot enjoy the process in the mean time.
Fact - this game could have used a few more months in HEAVY beta testing before it was shoved out the door. Some suit out there needs a good swift kick in the pants.
That was a main complaint I had. I was selected very early into closed beta, like in October or so. Do you know how many testing sessions we had for the first 8 weeks or so? 2 sessions a week of 3 or 4 hours each. For the month after that it was increased to 3 sessions. It was only less than a month before the game was released that servers were open to test for longer than 6 hours at a time.
- how many obscure bugs can anybody find like that?
- how about all the bugs related to continuous time (like memory leaks) can you find?
- all that testing we did? Gone in one day in open beta when they decided that all the (majorly positive) feedback we gave for space combat was irrelevant and they made it 'god mode' when the WoW players joined during open beta and complained it was too hard (pfft!)
- Klingon (pvp) was only released to us like literally the week before open beta.
- The whole game was tested and balanced around unlimited skill points, and again, during open beta they changed it to limited skill points, leaving the whole skill map obsolete (designed around unlimited points).
I remember all testers were guessing when the game would be released, some said June 2010, some said September 2010, most said it was at the end of March because of some earnings statement from Atari or such, and how it would be not enough time... Imagine our surprise when they announced release was in early February! ROFL!!! And the game is paying the consequences of those stupid decisions now.
The poster above me who described the player's guesses at a release date explains a lot about this game. Also, a previous poster mentioned that the game changes depending on which way the wind blows. I know that this is also mostly true.
Somewhere deep inside the balance broken space combat system, a fun Star Trek skinned space shooter exists. Sadly, it is marred not only by dramatic changes done to the skillpoint system. Balance issues are guided by a vocal minority in the forums. Cryptic thanks them for their feedback and continues to pledge to listen to the community when it comes to making its changes.
At first, this seems like it is a good idea. In practice, it is a nightmare. The game changes dramatically just about every week. In a scramble to balance the PvP system that I now know was barely tested, they have gimped all but a few Flavor-Of-The-Month BO ability tactics.
While they seem to listen to comment made on the Klingon PvP fourms, and make changes based upon whatever it is that they recommend. I understand MES was the first victim, but that happened before I got into OB. Recently, Viral Matrix has been nerfed. This coincided with gripes about it from mainly Klingon players on the forums. If one were to read into what they want nerfed next, I would speculate that SubNuc Beam, Feedback Pulse, and Reverse Shield Polarity are next on the list. It seems that, with little to no testing of their own, Cryptic makes quick changes based upon a vocal minority on the PvP forums.
At least they are listening right?
NOPE
While they cater to one sub-forum, they ignore almost all other forums. Major game-breaking bugs exist that are constantly mentioned by other players on the forums, but they are personally attacked by fanboy types that appear to only be interested in defending the game at all costs. Worst yet, if a critic gets offended and decides to defend themselves with a mild but heated response, the moderators delete the post and give the critic an infraction. Equally, if not stronger TOS violations that consist of mainly personal attacks and insults. The offending post remain without deletion or insult as long as they are targeted at critics of the game. When the critics loose patients with the report button and decide to defend themselves from these baseless attacks, the Moderators finally appear, but only to discipline those who are critical.
If the Moderators and by extension the Developers are only listening to a select group of players then this game is doomed. Combine that with the lack of commitment for internal testing before major changes show that they have no direction. They have given it up to the motions of the wind. That wind just happens to the small but loud minority of babbling forum sharks.
Actually the consensus on the official forums is that the beta testers are surprised by the huge difference in stability and bugs being present between the last openbeta version and the actual release.
Not finding any words to describe your take on balance changes done by cryptic thats not openly sarcastic or atleast cynic(and i mean not towards you). I mean a mmorpg developer changing around how abilities work in the game especially in the context of pvp, my how shocking. That has to be a first.
And yeah, there are always claims that company xy only listens to yx players which do xx content, while ignoring the much more important and easily adressed complains by xz. Honestly, just fill in the variables, works with any mmorpg gueranteed.
A lead developer for a known mmorpg once wrote in a blog that if there is a big issue, like a bug in the code that makes the game lag or crash, people always expect that everyone stops anything he is doing and starts scouring the code for it. Artists stop drawing, database guys stop working on the database, content guys stop making new quests, everyone is suddenly supposed to become a leet programmer who is deeply familiar with the problematic code area and start bughunting.
In reality the guys fixing bugs in the code, are not the same guys deciding that abiltiy xy needs to be nerfed by x% or the guys creating new icons for abilities. There are loads of people working on a mmorpg that cant help the guys fixing the code even one little bit. And there is no sane reason why all those artists, content monkeys, translators or database gurus should stop working on their stuff just because the programmers have trouble hunting a bug down.
I don't feel as if I am being too unreasonable here. The Dev/Mod could have at least acknowledged the bug that requires you to repeat content multiple time to get credit. There has been no acknowledgment of the problem and that they are looking at the issue.
However, when a rant about VM/Sub Nuc Beam gets started, a Mod is there to apologize and assure the PvP community that the fix is coming soon. It was not a lie and it came quickly. Maybe I am suffering from a lack of perspective, but I find it hard not too. I think the so-called fixs are breaking the game more. I truly believe they are ignoring valid criticism in other forums because of these criticisms are being attacked and buried by the "The Game is Perfect" crowd. The bugs are real and I am only one of many who has listed the issue. We can not even get a "We are aware of it and we are working to solve the problem." Worst, they seem to help their fans by selectively applying TOS violations to only those who bring criticism. Flames/Trolling/Personal Attacks from fanboys are allowed and are not deleted even after being reported.
I don't feel as if I am being too unreasonable here. The Dev/Mod could have at least acknowledged the bug that requires you to repeat content multiple time to get credit. There has been no acknowledgment of the problem and that they are looking at the issue.
However, when a rant about VM/Sub Nuc Beam gets started, a Mod is there to apologize and assure the PvP community that the fix is coming soon. It was not a lie and it came quickly. Maybe I am suffering from a lack of perspective, but I find it hard not too. I think the so-called fixs are breaking the game more. I truly believe they are ignoring valid criticism in other forums because of these criticisms being attacked and buried by the "The Game is Perfect" crowd. The bugs are real and I am only one of many who has listed the issue. We can not even get a "We are aware of it and we are working to solve the problem." Worst, they seem to help their fans by selectively applying TOS violations to only those who bring criticism. Flames/Trolling/Personal Attacks from fanboys are allowed and are not deleted even after being reported.
I know what your talking about because i was affected by one of the quest bugs myself. And they did acknowledge it, mine was both in the know issues section of their bug database and got a mention in the patchnotes. Are you sure you looked in the proper places for your issue?
Also the speed of fixing bugs is in direct proportion of how difficult it is to fix them. Im not saying your wrong, im just trying to say that i have seen your view so many times in eve and wow when they changed stuff around... I honestly dont even have the energy anymore to check the stuff myself, cant find it in me to care. Though i believe that stuff like the NGE disaster in SWG are the exception, and most companies, especially after seeing what happened to SWG, are trying to to what is best for the enjoyment of their current playerbase. Though that they had to do a partial rollback of the Feb 12 patch does seem to indicate that they do stumble around a fair bit, stuff like that is fairly rare if my memory doesnt fool me.
Do you want to know the real kicker? I start this month with a week of OB under my belt and an almost entirely positive perspective on the game. I am astounded at how quickly my perspective changed in such a short time period. I actually think the core mechanics are fun. I definitely think it needs more content of a more Star Trek variety, but that wasn't what got me. It was the bugs, imbalance, and the near feral attitude displayed by the vocal minority in defense of their precious.
You could be right about the acknowledgement. There are so many thread and the criticism in each thread meld into each other so much that I might have missed the Dev response. It might have just been buried so far past the front page that I can't find it. Another post complaining about bugs and such pops up so frequently it seems impossible to keep track.
I want to like this game. When it is working in an even-handed manner, I am having fun. With fleet action being dominated by upper level grievers, and space PvP essentially borked, I find myself left with episodes and ground PvP.
Limited content + Huge Bugs = Angry Consumer
Playing this game is like watching a beautiful woman jump head first off a tall bridge.
Do you want to know the real kicker? I start this month with a week of OB under my belt and an almost entirely positive perspective on the game. I am astounded at how quickly my perspective changed in such a short time period. I actually think the core mechanics are fun. I definitely think it needs more content of a more Star Trek variety, but that wasn't what got me. It was the bugs, imbalance, and the near feral attitude displayed by the vocal minority in defense of their precious.
You could be right about the acknowledgement. There are so many thread and the criticism in each thread meld into each other so much that I might have missed the Dev response. It might have just been buried so far past the front page that I can't find it. Another post complaining about bugs and such pops up so frequently it seems impossible to keep track.
I want to like this game. When it is working in an even-handed manner, I am having fun. With fleet action being dominated by upper level grievers, and space PvP essentially borked, I find myself left with episodes and ground PvP. Limited content + Huge Bugs = Angry Consumer Playing this game is like watching a beautiful woman jump head first off a tall bridge.
Ah well i have seen it all before time and time again, so im just calmer about it i guess. If you want my honest advice, let your subscription run out, forget the game is already released and do something else. Then in 2-3 months when the initial problems are overcome, have your own personal releaseday. If you keep forcing yourself to play the game in its current form you might turn sour even those things you actually liked before.
Its just, that i have been there on pretty much releaseday for the two big mmos i have stuck with for a long time, them being eve-online and WoW. And not only have both launches been far worse, no but if you compare the gameplay, the balance, stability and the content present at the time immediatly after release to what they are today ... well its like they scrapped it, made an entire new game, scrapped that too and made another one.
The thing thats keeping me in mmorpgs is the change, im looking forward to every single patchday, and i take every nerf/buff in stride because thats what keeps the game, nay the whole genre, interesting for me.
There is a major patch planned for next month. The two things in the plan that caught my eye was the addition of Fed vs Fed PvP, and more PvE content for the Klingon faction. I think those two things alone could be enough extra content to get me to come back and maybe even roll a Klingon alt. Even if they don't fix FvK, I wouldn't have to deal with the imbalance anymore. I could play PvP in space again and that sounds good. Maybe they will even add a level cap to fleet actions by then.
I find that I can get a bit too emotional with these games. Once you invest yourself into one, even in a relatively short manner, I find myself invested enough to get a bit emotional. I think it is apart of the fun of exploring new worlds. Trying to relive that old moment of wonder when I first logged into SWG or the first time I went in a challenging WoW instance. I know they are totally different styles, but they were new and wondrous when I first explored each.
I got irritated with STO far too quickly,and I think it might be because my expectations are much higher than the 18 year old MMO neophyte.
That is the rub isn't it? Major patch planned for next month... just requires the majority of us mugs to subscribe to get 'content' which should already have been there. You know, stuff to do when you have hit the cap. I'm not even talking about some sort of continuing progression for your character once the cap is reached, just basic 'stuff to do'. Promising it for the month after release just doesn't cut it. They did this with Champions Online and it cost them.
We've already had the highest out of the box cost for a mmo yet. While the monthly fee isn't the highest I've seen, it certainly isn't the lowest.. yet consider that the devs have a microtransaction aspect ready to fleece us with ala Champions Online, that content which they eventually did a U-turn on and gave free instead due to community outrage. You would think we were deserving of a AAA title given how much the majority have spent on the game. It is no such thing. The mediocre scores STO is getting in reviews is damning.
I had a bit of fun with it. Sure, blowing shit up in space was enjoyable for a while (if not very Trek inspired). The advice not to sub and come back at some point in the future is sound. However, here is me thinking this is it for the game. First impressions last and STO has wasted the opportunity.
I feel my money was wasted.
Edit : Ps. Oh yeh, about the stability. I joked with my fleet mates that stability would improve loads as people hit the cap and quit. Lo and behold... The other joke going round was that they'll wait until the month is up *then* see if they need to add the additional servers they had 'emergercy ordered'. Would be hilarious to compare how many are still playing the game right now compared to a week ago.
Yeah well, MMORPGs almost always get released pretty naked. If you preorder or buy in the same month, you should know what to expect. Nobody forces you to buy the game in the current state, and atleast the beta testers new exactly what they would get.
It has been like that for every mmorpg i have played at launch. Sure its not nice, but i see it like that:
The box price was for me about the same as a singleplayergame, and the first month is included. And even the haters have to admit that STO offers alot more content than even first class singleplayer RPGs like oblivion or fallout, which i played through within 2 weeks of casual play. So since i havent payed any subscription yet, and nobody else either, i consider i got good value for my money. Once im through all the content, i will cross the bridge wether there is enough there to justifiy paying a monthly sub.
Also there is one upside to this instance one server world, even if the game tanks, and looses like 70% players, it wont become a dead server wasteland like warhammer did. So you have 10 instances instead of 30, big deal, wont affect your gameplay. In warhammer 1/2 of players quit cause they couldnt deal with the game and its bugs, then then another 1/3 quit cause they got pissed of at halfempty servers and later the bad press merging servers creates, nobody wants to join a tanking game. Seems to me like that atleast. Imho the warhammer server fiasco is one reason cryptic and probably some future mmorpgs go this way. Pop imbalances are just nothing you want ontop of a halffinished game, and i honestly do not expect to ever see a finished mmorpg getting released. Thats like expecting a politican to be honest and stand by his word, somehow it seems so natural one should be able to take it for granted, yet experience teaches us that its just not happening.
Stability. - Yep believe it or not those of you upset by current stability it was in fact much, much, much worse. It is getting better every day.
Que - Lately it has been the exception rather than the rule for me to hit a login que.
Add some other ideas if I left anything out but these are the two big ones that come to mind. There is a cargo vessel full of broken content , broken quests, fleet action etc that they still have not addressed. At this rate once I cap out I can go back and play a brand new game and enjoy all the content once it is fixed. ;P
That being said the bug reports I have been filing have mostly been answered with WALL OF TEXT with a standardized reply. I can understand they are more concerned with cataloging and addressing then emailing me back however this shows that they are in desperate need of fixes and compensations. The best thing they could do is announce they were crediting the monthly subscribers and giving the lifetime subscribers something to make them feel better. Not sure what that would be but then again I never have wanted a lifetime subscription to anything. Well other than life.
Comments
a) No you didn't see 55-60 players in a zone; Screenshots or its just a lie - right now there are 20 zones up with at most, 17 players per zone at Sol System. When a zone fills up, it'll say "Full" on the "Choose an instance" screen - when the zone says "full" the instance # reads 50 Player. If they upped it to 60 this week, big whoop my point is still valid - it isn't "Massive" it's merely a single player game with an online option.
[Mod Edit]
I said Earth Spacedock not Sol System. Big difference there. I question when your screenshot was actually taken as I have definitely seen more than 17 ships hanging outside of spacedock during prime-time. Also, who are you to say that it "isn't massive"? Massive is a subjective term. It means different things to different people. Anyways, you are conveniently forgetting that anyone can trade with anyone in this game via exchange (including between factions) and anyone can talk to anyone else in the same zone regardless of whatever instance they are in. Sounds pretty "massive" to me despite being instanced.
50 or 60 is not "completely false", in the context of what he was saying 50 or 60 really is not the issue. The issue is that is not considered massive which leads me to your second point.
Your opinion that it "is not considered massive". Opinion is not the same as fact.
Massive is subjective but even in subjective terms you can find a common understanding for most people. Yeah sure, there will be some people who says that an adult who weighs 100 pounds is "massive" but generally that wont be the case for most people.
Consensus towards something does not make it fact. It is still subjective regardless.
Likewise, in this context, having a maximum of 50 (or 60) and an average of much lower is not considered massive by MMO standards.
Proof?
You may feel that playing in zones with 4-5 people, in small mission instances, or 30-40 in fleet actions or 50 in starbases is massive for you but I think it is a safe bet to say that it is not what most MMOG players label as massive amount of people.
Again, consensus means absolutely nothing to me. I really don't care what the majority thinks about what makes something "massive". It is subjective as there is no non-arbitrary quantitative measurement set in place to distinguish what makes a multiplayer game into a "Massive" MORPG.
And, if I actually cared what the majority thought, I would be playing WoW instead of any other MMORPG.
Personally i dont feel that having 50 people in my instance is massive. But if there are 2k people in my ZONE then yes, i think thats massive.
The zone number is what makes this massive, not the numbers in the instance. When i type "Hi" in zonechat and reach over 2k people, how can that not be considered massive? If i can get any item i want in the Exchange, because at any time there are probable a couple hundred interacting and selling stuff there(and im talking having the interface open and being busy listing stuff, not items listed) how can that not be massive?
Obviously its the chat linking all those people together, if you couldnt talk to other people just seeing them would be meaningless. As human communications are what is defining communitys. So you cant see all of them at all times(which you cant in any mmorpg), whats next you complain that you cant smell them or pinch their butts either?
Exactly. The exchange, zone chat that includes all instances of the zone, and the mail system is exactly what this argument of "massiveness" should be about. However, the anti-STO crowd wants to argue on the narrow-sighted view of just instances.
Exactly. The exchange, zone chat that includes all instances of the zone, and the mail system is exactly what this argument of "massiveness" should be about. However, the anti-STO crowd wants to argue on the narrow-sighted view of just instances.
So because you can chat in certain areas to over 100 or 1,000 people at a time, that makes the game "massive" hence MMO.. OK got ya..
Attention Yahoo game players.. you are now part of a MMO community.. woot woot.. and we even have cams too.. awesome..
WHO CARES???
trying to get back to the point of the thread, other facts about STO:
- Very very light crafting (if you can call it that). You gather stuff, go to an NPC with a normal item and your gathered stuff, turn it into item+.
- It is trekkie, for the most part. Ship designs (exclucing ship interiors), planets, star systems, items, races, episodes, it's all trekkie, except for the constant fighting that is not trekkie at all, where combat was more the exception than the rule.
- Good character customization. You can create all sorts of alien species. I've seen some very creative looking aliens.
- Bad direction. The game doesn't feel like it has a direction. Things like major changes to combat difficulty late in the testing process (making it too easy); to the whole skill system, which went from limitless to capped without modifying the underlying skill map. Almost feels like they're changing the game according to wherever the wind blows that day.
- Fast leveling. Whether you like this or not, it is fast. Even the most casual gamer should get to the current max level in less than 100 hours played. Experienced MMO players should get there in half that time, without using any exploits or shortcuts.
- It is stable. It was really bad during the first week, but right now (at least in my case) it hasn't crashed or disconnected in a long while.
- Complex (but underutilized) system. Different weapons with different levels and powers. Bridge officer abilities of 3 different types and different ranks, with ground and space abilities. Different ships with different weapon layouts and power settings. 3 different 'classes' for the PC, ship and BO customization. I said underutilized because, with the (lack of) difficulty in the game, it's not worth it as you can beat most fights by just spamming spacebar.
- Bad UI. Many of the skills and abilities are severely lacking in information so you are guessing a lot on what to select for what. Lack of weapon autofire will destroy your keyboard and/or your hand.
- No need for group. Unlike other MMOs, there really is no need, or even incentive, for grouping with others. Every ship is a self-contained destruction machine. No need for 'tanks' or 'healers' for any mission. The only incentive for grouping is in open area battles, so you have more chance of getting loot than those who don't group (as damage is added from all group members to decide who gets loot).
- Nothing to do at max level. Once you reach max level, all you can do is PvP, and repeat daily missions that are nothing special.
- Limited 'auction house'. You can set things for sale, but the interface is very limited right now (can't sort by anything, can't set auctions).
- No death penalty. When you die, you pop back with your ship (space) or team (ground) and can continue as if nothing happened.
Exactly. The exchange, zone chat that includes all instances of the zone, and the mail system is exactly what this argument of "massiveness" should be about. However, the anti-STO crowd wants to argue on the narrow-sighted view of just instances.
So because you can chat in certain areas to over 100 or 1,000 people at a time, that makes the game "massive" hence MMO.. OK got ya..
Attention Yahoo game players.. you are now part of a MMO community.. woot woot.. and we even have cams too.. awesome..
Did you intentionally misread what I wrote?
Therefore, stop trying to twist my words into something that I actually didn't type.
Im not sure about this game being so solofriendly. I currently do Defend sector mission in the sector north of earth, and i regularily run into groups of 1 dreadnaught, 2 BS, and cruisers and stuff there. No way in hell can i solo that at same lvl with a Tier 2 ship. I have seen T4 ships(which are +15-25 levels to me) get wiped by groups like that. I cant even scratch the shields on that dreadnaught and if the BS stun or tractor beam me(they like to do both) and that dreadnaught hits me with his frontBFG i go from full shields to half hull(you can imagine what happens if i get hit at half shields). Yeah it probably cant kill my science ship if i get it alone cause im way faster and have many survival related skills, but killing it?
Also even if i avoid dreads and do the regular missions, nowadays i sometimes have stuff like 3 of the stunning/tractoring BS with friends, and the small BoPs fire Highyield plasma torps like candy, and their big cruisers have a boost that lets them outrun me. If im stunned and my science team is on CD(only buff breaking the stun) it means death for me cause you cant even adjust shields or move during that stun and it doesnt take more than a couple torps for my hull to completly crumble.
And im already lasting alot longer than other players cause im a engineer and we have stuff like a 30 second -40% damage buff that regens shield(which frankly is awesome). Tactical officers(they get offense buffs) in an escort(they lack shields and defense oriented BO stations) are in for hell trying to solo at my lvl(not yet commander). I have seen them blown up in like 10 sec(stun, tractor, 5 HY torps impacting, dead).
Im not saying you cant solo, im seeing people doing it, but you have to pick your targets, and your better in the right ship with the right fitting and skills. And even then it will be much, much easier in a group even if they dont help each other. Good thing is that its usually easy to find someone to group with, i usually get 1-2 people if i ask in zonechat(the LFG tool is frankly crap).
Hmm didnt see that mentioned yet so here it goes: The npcs have pretty much the same abilities with the same strength that we players do, but racial limited. Fighting Hirogen is nothing like fighting romulans which is nothing like fighting borg etc. Alot of times in other mmos i had the feeling that most npc just run around melee or ranged autoattacking stuff(Eve or wow come to mind), and otherwise being exactly the same just with different skins and names. Sometimes they have a special ability or two, but not to the point that it actually would require you to change your tactics.
Its not until about mid LT commander that i saw the enemies actually use those abilities though, so there probably is some grace period till around lvl 15 i would say.
Facts abilities and skills:
Overall abilities in STO are more powerful than in WoW or eve, for example Tractor beams pretty much stop moving/turning/cloaking, stuns can last more than 15 sec if not broken(they do grant harsh immunity timers though) and abilities that affect an attack usually have extreme effects on the order of 2x-5x damage.
Damage reduction abilities go anywhere from 15%-80%, and run between 8-30 seconds, some are only for shields, some only for hull, some only vs certain damagetypes, you get it.
There are abilties that make beam weapons heal instead of hurt you, or reflect damage back, an AOE effect that make npc enemies attack each other instead of you/your team for 15-30 sec(for players everything becomes attackable, but your not forced to attack, alt tab=bad, selfheals suddenly affect target instead of targets target or self), or a target jam that prevents a single foe of targeting you for 10-20+ seconds and using any abilities/attacks against you that require you being in his target(basicly everything but PBAOE).
BO abilities have ranks, like skills in many mmorpgs, but here a BO can have rank I, II and III of the same ability at the same time if you want. There is a max of 4 abilites per BO(commander rank), the different ships have different limits on usuable rank abilites, but not on BOs themselves.
Abilities work differently here. Player skills(which are the minority) are affected only by your personal skills. BO skills(majority logically) have their Magnitude decided by the players skill, and their duration/recharge by the BOs skill. There are some rare exceptions to this where a skill has fixed duration/recharge, here the BO skill also affects the magnitude.
Most abilities scale in some way beyond the + from putting points in its corresponding skills. They either are atleast partly % based(my selfheal got stronger in my new ship), scale directly with items you can equip to your ship, or scale with a powersetting in their corresponding subsystem.
You can have more BO with you than your ship has stations for. For example i have 4 stations(1 weapons, 1 engineering, 2 science), but 8 BOs. I use different BOs when solo than i use in a team. Replacing a BO with another can be done anytime your not in combat.
Player skillpoints are limited, you reach a point where your maxlevel and stop earning them. BO skillpoints(which go into a pool instead of to an individual) are not, both have maxlevel in abilities though.
Fact- the game has a lot of bugs. They are being stamped out but they are there. And there are a lot of them.
Fact- there are a TON of broken quests. Some are perm broken, others require you to log out and back in or simply exit the instance and reenter for them to work. I have filed so many bug tickets the letters are wearing off my keyboard.
Fact - there is very little Klingon content.
Fact- the quests are, boiled down, very similar groupings of kill this, collect that, go scan that. (In my humble opinion that does not make them any less fun when they work.)
Fact - this game could have used a few more months in HEAVY beta testing before it was shoved out the door. Some suit out there needs a good swift kick in the pants.
On a personal note I like the game, a lot. I see them being able to fix fleet action, fix a lot of the broken quests, stamp out the bugs, polish up the Klingon content and get the game rolling. It just feels like it was released into the wild too soon.
So far without really playing that much (maybe 16 hours total since the game came out) i have one character at Rear Admiral and one at Lt Commander and thinking of starting a Klingon if they ever get any content. But the important part is I am still having fun. If you aren't try leaving and coming back when more of the game works.
STO seems to have far more depth than I thought when I first started playing. Working the skill trees alone can be interesting after you learn the math and which skills bump other skills. Also, the gameplay itself seems very smooth and space combat is a blast.
The only thing from the OP that is a FACT is that there is no free trial. Everything else is conjecture or a game of semantics trying to give the appearance of facts.
I find it interesting how many people come to these forums with an objective of trolling and spreading hate for games ... which are after all ONLY games ... and are so persistent and passionate while doing so. The forums for this and every other game here, may be the basement of the MMORPG world.
It is a MMO game, you can swap instances and join others in a heartbeat. Massive, yes, Multiplayer, Yes, Online, Yes. Personally I don't want to see 500 ships around me when I am just travelling from A to B. Big battles can happen, and are less likely to fail due to lag because instancing splits up the load. This is an advantage, not a drawback for me.
As far as what to do.. I like the mixture of Ground and Space... some combat.. some exploring. The stories (if you read them) are on-theme and have some funny moments (bar fight was one of them for me). If your a power-grinder, skipping story content just to PvP later on, I suppose its boring. But if your just interested in a Star Trek-based adventure, you get one. Its a whole lot better than grinding 1000 space-bunnies kills... or travelling to 10 different systems for no reason. Its about conflict and discovery, and if you READ the story your 'discovering' information about the world you play in.. the fiction. You still get your XP and your reward when done... and thats why you do it in the first place. There IS variety... and that allows player to pick their 'grind' in whatever way they enjoy the most.
Roleplay is lacking because there are not a lot of 'social' activities.. yet. RP needs non-combat to stimulate character interaction. There are opportunities to grow here, if STO team puts some more features into ships and considers adding non-combat classes (traders/entertainers)... it would attrack a broader playerbase and encourage RP activity.
STO PvP is in its infancy.. and the Devs know that... so should most players. PvP is very likely to see some expansions and 'goal' based activities (defend the base) and rewards based on sucess. They wanted to lauch with BASIC PvP.. and they did.
I am playing for free right now. Buddy tokens... 10 day free trial... I am at LT9 after 4 days of play a bit every evening.
Plenty of harsh critism for a game that is just in its infancy. STO has enough features for the average (not power-grinder) player to find some fun and develop their characters a little while the Dev team works on the next expansion.
I am simply not that impatient that I cannot enjoy the process in the mean time.
SWG/STO/(SWTOR)
That was a main complaint I had. I was selected very early into closed beta, like in October or so. Do you know how many testing sessions we had for the first 8 weeks or so? 2 sessions a week of 3 or 4 hours each. For the month after that it was increased to 3 sessions. It was only less than a month before the game was released that servers were open to test for longer than 6 hours at a time.
- how many obscure bugs can anybody find like that?
- how about all the bugs related to continuous time (like memory leaks) can you find?
- all that testing we did? Gone in one day in open beta when they decided that all the (majorly positive) feedback we gave for space combat was irrelevant and they made it 'god mode' when the WoW players joined during open beta and complained it was too hard (pfft!)
- Klingon (pvp) was only released to us like literally the week before open beta.
- The whole game was tested and balanced around unlimited skill points, and again, during open beta they changed it to limited skill points, leaving the whole skill map obsolete (designed around unlimited points).
I remember all testers were guessing when the game would be released, some said June 2010, some said September 2010, most said it was at the end of March because of some earnings statement from Atari or such, and how it would be not enough time... Imagine our surprise when they announced release was in early February! ROFL!!! And the game is paying the consequences of those stupid decisions now.
Ok, here goes my first post.
The poster above me who described the player's guesses at a release date explains a lot about this game. Also, a previous poster mentioned that the game changes depending on which way the wind blows. I know that this is also mostly true.
Somewhere deep inside the balance broken space combat system, a fun Star Trek skinned space shooter exists. Sadly, it is marred not only by dramatic changes done to the skillpoint system. Balance issues are guided by a vocal minority in the forums. Cryptic thanks them for their feedback and continues to pledge to listen to the community when it comes to making its changes.
At first, this seems like it is a good idea. In practice, it is a nightmare. The game changes dramatically just about every week. In a scramble to balance the PvP system that I now know was barely tested, they have gimped all but a few Flavor-Of-The-Month BO ability tactics.
While they seem to listen to comment made on the Klingon PvP fourms, and make changes based upon whatever it is that they recommend. I understand MES was the first victim, but that happened before I got into OB. Recently, Viral Matrix has been nerfed. This coincided with gripes about it from mainly Klingon players on the forums. If one were to read into what they want nerfed next, I would speculate that SubNuc Beam, Feedback Pulse, and Reverse Shield Polarity are next on the list. It seems that, with little to no testing of their own, Cryptic makes quick changes based upon a vocal minority on the PvP forums.
At least they are listening right?
NOPE
While they cater to one sub-forum, they ignore almost all other forums. Major game-breaking bugs exist that are constantly mentioned by other players on the forums, but they are personally attacked by fanboy types that appear to only be interested in defending the game at all costs. Worst yet, if a critic gets offended and decides to defend themselves with a mild but heated response, the moderators delete the post and give the critic an infraction. Equally, if not stronger TOS violations that consist of mainly personal attacks and insults. The offending post remain without deletion or insult as long as they are targeted at critics of the game. When the critics loose patients with the report button and decide to defend themselves from these baseless attacks, the Moderators finally appear, but only to discipline those who are critical.
If the Moderators and by extension the Developers are only listening to a select group of players then this game is doomed. Combine that with the lack of commitment for internal testing before major changes show that they have no direction. They have given it up to the motions of the wind. That wind just happens to the small but loud minority of babbling forum sharks.
Actually the consensus on the official forums is that the beta testers are surprised by the huge difference in stability and bugs being present between the last openbeta version and the actual release.
Not finding any words to describe your take on balance changes done by cryptic thats not openly sarcastic or atleast cynic(and i mean not towards you). I mean a mmorpg developer changing around how abilities work in the game especially in the context of pvp, my how shocking. That has to be a first.
And yeah, there are always claims that company xy only listens to yx players which do xx content, while ignoring the much more important and easily adressed complains by xz. Honestly, just fill in the variables, works with any mmorpg gueranteed.
A lead developer for a known mmorpg once wrote in a blog that if there is a big issue, like a bug in the code that makes the game lag or crash, people always expect that everyone stops anything he is doing and starts scouring the code for it. Artists stop drawing, database guys stop working on the database, content guys stop making new quests, everyone is suddenly supposed to become a leet programmer who is deeply familiar with the problematic code area and start bughunting.
In reality the guys fixing bugs in the code, are not the same guys deciding that abiltiy xy needs to be nerfed by x% or the guys creating new icons for abilities. There are loads of people working on a mmorpg that cant help the guys fixing the code even one little bit. And there is no sane reason why all those artists, content monkeys, translators or database gurus should stop working on their stuff just because the programmers have trouble hunting a bug down.
I don't feel as if I am being too unreasonable here. The Dev/Mod could have at least acknowledged the bug that requires you to repeat content multiple time to get credit. There has been no acknowledgment of the problem and that they are looking at the issue.
However, when a rant about VM/Sub Nuc Beam gets started, a Mod is there to apologize and assure the PvP community that the fix is coming soon. It was not a lie and it came quickly. Maybe I am suffering from a lack of perspective, but I find it hard not too. I think the so-called fixs are breaking the game more. I truly believe they are ignoring valid criticism in other forums because of these criticisms are being attacked and buried by the "The Game is Perfect" crowd. The bugs are real and I am only one of many who has listed the issue. We can not even get a "We are aware of it and we are working to solve the problem." Worst, they seem to help their fans by selectively applying TOS violations to only those who bring criticism. Flames/Trolling/Personal Attacks from fanboys are allowed and are not deleted even after being reported.
I know what your talking about because i was affected by one of the quest bugs myself. And they did acknowledge it, mine was both in the know issues section of their bug database and got a mention in the patchnotes. Are you sure you looked in the proper places for your issue?
Also the speed of fixing bugs is in direct proportion of how difficult it is to fix them. Im not saying your wrong, im just trying to say that i have seen your view so many times in eve and wow when they changed stuff around... I honestly dont even have the energy anymore to check the stuff myself, cant find it in me to care. Though i believe that stuff like the NGE disaster in SWG are the exception, and most companies, especially after seeing what happened to SWG, are trying to to what is best for the enjoyment of their current playerbase. Though that they had to do a partial rollback of the Feb 12 patch does seem to indicate that they do stumble around a fair bit, stuff like that is fairly rare if my memory doesnt fool me.
Do you want to know the real kicker? I start this month with a week of OB under my belt and an almost entirely positive perspective on the game. I am astounded at how quickly my perspective changed in such a short time period. I actually think the core mechanics are fun. I definitely think it needs more content of a more Star Trek variety, but that wasn't what got me. It was the bugs, imbalance, and the near feral attitude displayed by the vocal minority in defense of their precious.
You could be right about the acknowledgement. There are so many thread and the criticism in each thread meld into each other so much that I might have missed the Dev response. It might have just been buried so far past the front page that I can't find it. Another post complaining about bugs and such pops up so frequently it seems impossible to keep track.
I want to like this game. When it is working in an even-handed manner, I am having fun. With fleet action being dominated by upper level grievers, and space PvP essentially borked, I find myself left with episodes and ground PvP.
Limited content + Huge Bugs = Angry Consumer
Playing this game is like watching a beautiful woman jump head first off a tall bridge.
Ah well i have seen it all before time and time again, so im just calmer about it i guess. If you want my honest advice, let your subscription run out, forget the game is already released and do something else. Then in 2-3 months when the initial problems are overcome, have your own personal releaseday. If you keep forcing yourself to play the game in its current form you might turn sour even those things you actually liked before.
Its just, that i have been there on pretty much releaseday for the two big mmos i have stuck with for a long time, them being eve-online and WoW. And not only have both launches been far worse, no but if you compare the gameplay, the balance, stability and the content present at the time immediatly after release to what they are today ... well its like they scrapped it, made an entire new game, scrapped that too and made another one.
The thing thats keeping me in mmorpgs is the change, im looking forward to every single patchday, and i take every nerf/buff in stride because thats what keeps the game, nay the whole genre, interesting for me.
There is a major patch planned for next month. The two things in the plan that caught my eye was the addition of Fed vs Fed PvP, and more PvE content for the Klingon faction. I think those two things alone could be enough extra content to get me to come back and maybe even roll a Klingon alt. Even if they don't fix FvK, I wouldn't have to deal with the imbalance anymore. I could play PvP in space again and that sounds good. Maybe they will even add a level cap to fleet actions by then.
I find that I can get a bit too emotional with these games. Once you invest yourself into one, even in a relatively short manner, I find myself invested enough to get a bit emotional. I think it is apart of the fun of exploring new worlds. Trying to relive that old moment of wonder when I first logged into SWG or the first time I went in a challenging WoW instance. I know they are totally different styles, but they were new and wondrous when I first explored each.
I got irritated with STO far too quickly,and I think it might be because my expectations are much higher than the 18 year old MMO neophyte.
That is the rub isn't it? Major patch planned for next month... just requires the majority of us mugs to subscribe to get 'content' which should already have been there. You know, stuff to do when you have hit the cap. I'm not even talking about some sort of continuing progression for your character once the cap is reached, just basic 'stuff to do'. Promising it for the month after release just doesn't cut it. They did this with Champions Online and it cost them.
We've already had the highest out of the box cost for a mmo yet. While the monthly fee isn't the highest I've seen, it certainly isn't the lowest.. yet consider that the devs have a microtransaction aspect ready to fleece us with ala Champions Online, that content which they eventually did a U-turn on and gave free instead due to community outrage. You would think we were deserving of a AAA title given how much the majority have spent on the game. It is no such thing. The mediocre scores STO is getting in reviews is damning.
I had a bit of fun with it. Sure, blowing shit up in space was enjoyable for a while (if not very Trek inspired). The advice not to sub and come back at some point in the future is sound. However, here is me thinking this is it for the game. First impressions last and STO has wasted the opportunity.
I feel my money was wasted.
Edit : Ps. Oh yeh, about the stability. I joked with my fleet mates that stability would improve loads as people hit the cap and quit. Lo and behold... The other joke going round was that they'll wait until the month is up *then* see if they need to add the additional servers they had 'emergercy ordered'. Would be hilarious to compare how many are still playing the game right now compared to a week ago.
Yeah well, MMORPGs almost always get released pretty naked. If you preorder or buy in the same month, you should know what to expect. Nobody forces you to buy the game in the current state, and atleast the beta testers new exactly what they would get.
It has been like that for every mmorpg i have played at launch. Sure its not nice, but i see it like that:
The box price was for me about the same as a singleplayergame, and the first month is included. And even the haters have to admit that STO offers alot more content than even first class singleplayer RPGs like oblivion or fallout, which i played through within 2 weeks of casual play. So since i havent payed any subscription yet, and nobody else either, i consider i got good value for my money. Once im through all the content, i will cross the bridge wether there is enough there to justifiy paying a monthly sub.
Also there is one upside to this instance one server world, even if the game tanks, and looses like 70% players, it wont become a dead server wasteland like warhammer did. So you have 10 instances instead of 30, big deal, wont affect your gameplay. In warhammer 1/2 of players quit cause they couldnt deal with the game and its bugs, then then another 1/3 quit cause they got pissed of at halfempty servers and later the bad press merging servers creates, nobody wants to join a tanking game. Seems to me like that atleast. Imho the warhammer server fiasco is one reason cryptic and probably some future mmorpgs go this way. Pop imbalances are just nothing you want ontop of a halffinished game, and i honestly do not expect to ever see a finished mmorpg getting released. Thats like expecting a politican to be honest and stand by his word, somehow it seems so natural one should be able to take it for granted, yet experience teaches us that its just not happening.
Things that have improved since launch.
Stability. - Yep believe it or not those of you upset by current stability it was in fact much, much, much worse. It is getting better every day.
Que - Lately it has been the exception rather than the rule for me to hit a login que.
Add some other ideas if I left anything out but these are the two big ones that come to mind. There is a cargo vessel full of broken content , broken quests, fleet action etc that they still have not addressed. At this rate once I cap out I can go back and play a brand new game and enjoy all the content once it is fixed. ;P
That being said the bug reports I have been filing have mostly been answered with WALL OF TEXT with a standardized reply. I can understand they are more concerned with cataloging and addressing then emailing me back however this shows that they are in desperate need of fixes and compensations. The best thing they could do is announce they were crediting the monthly subscribers and giving the lifetime subscribers something to make them feel better. Not sure what that would be but then again I never have wanted a lifetime subscription to anything.
Well other than life.