Well, at the very least, I think that this poll shows clearly where the market is.
I think it shows that your head is clearly up your...
Your assuming that mmorpg.com/forums is the whole market.
I CLEARLY conclude that 80 percent of the type of people that like to visit mmorpg forums would rather play a pve game.
Its probably even less than that. Because I highly doubt that every semi active user even saw this thread or commented on it.
From all the people I know that play mmos, none of them visit forums like this. And if I was to pick which of my friends would be most likely to visit a forum like this, my pvp-centric friends would be the least likely.
Well, at the very least, I think that this poll shows clearly where the market is.
No it doesnt. The question is the wrong one for that. If someone could enjoy a 100% PVE MMO, that doesnt mean that the same person wouldnt enjoy a PVE+PVP MMO. Or a FFA PVP MMO for that matter.
You can expect that most players have a broader taste then what the question covers.
Nope... carebears are for PvE, it's the brawlbears that likes PvP.
So, why would I not play a game that was 100 percent pve?
Because I can already play better pve games that ARE NOT online and ARE NOT mmos.
Can you be social with other people in those games?
But I guess that you aren't interested in being social.
Besides adding loads of people to a fantasy setting where I am the adventurer only serves to break the immersion and ruin the game
Loads of people to be social with.
Take for example, Morrowind Oblivion. That was an incredible single player experience in a fantasy setting.
If that was a mmo, I would have to hear how EPEEN#1 has a bigger sword than I do, is a higher level than me, already killed and looted that boss, I will hear spoilers, people will kill steal, the biggest baddest thing in game that I finally bested respawns a few minutes later........................and thats just the start.
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
I don't see the point to a pve only mmo. I played Morrowind and after the final battle I was like man I wasted all that time and for what? There is nothing to do with all this cool gear I got. In a pvp mmo at least you can always progress in your pvp skill and the work you do in pve helps you with pvp so it makes sense and gives gives purpose to your character in a way.
I don't see the point to a pve only mmo. I played Morrowind and after the final battle I was like man I wasted all that time and for what? There is nothing to do with all this cool gear I got. In a pvp mmo at least you can always progress in your pvp skill and the work you do in pve helps you with pvp so it makes sense and gives gives purpose to your character in a way.
Morrowind wasn't, however, an MMO. So I'd say that "point" is kind of moot, since it has nothing to do with PvE MMOs.
On topic:
I like both MMOs with AND without PvP. It really depends on the game itself and how they handle those two features. Some games suck WITH PvP because they don't implement it in a way that is FUN. Other games suck without it, sometimes in part due to their PvE not being FUN.
Six of one half a dozen of the other. Just entirely depends on the game as a WHOLE, for me.
I only read about 3 pages before I got tired-head. But i did notice something interesting about those who said that could definitely go WITHOUT pvp.
All the complaints were about the community doing the pvp, not necessarily the pvp game. And i couldn't agree more, pvp doesn't encourage community imo. It encourages epeen nonsense, griefing, and killing for no REAL reason.
Why can't just one company get it right with pvp and put enough boundaries to curb the ass-hat mentality.
It makes me miss DAOC the early years. Back when sacking a keep took a virtual army. Back when some battles would go on for hours. When relic raids actually meant something, and everyone on the server was interested in it. Back when there was a THIRD faction (no one will ever try this again?) so that the lower pop factions would actually cause incredible havoc!
I miss that community. Sure there were kids playing and ass-hats griefing. But there was a community too. Nowadays there's nothing like that. And it's not the games fault...
I almost never play games online unless its an online game. That means the vast majority of games I play are completely PVE and I play a lot of games. For those games where its available some of the most fun I've had has been co-op experiences as well. I'm perfectly happy playing a PVE game because I enjoy the shared experience with other people rather than a competitive one.
Nothing I've seen in my years of playing MMOG's has shown me that the people who style themselves as PVP'ers are people I generally want to associate with, although I've met a few I've been friendly with. The maturity level is almost universally low and they're far more prone to take ANY advantage available whether its allowed or not. The same mentality that allows them to shrug off losses in pvp or be full looted is the same one that makes them have little attachment to people, the game, or their account and increases the odds they'll engage in risky or adverse behavior because of it.
I'm certainly not holding PVE'ers above PVP'ers, but as a group I've found PVE'ers to have a broader spectrum of personality, as opposed to people who consider themselves PVP'ers.
The one thing ive realized in every MMO with pvp is... Pvp destroys games in the long run.
Classes start getting nerfed because players dont like feeling like they chose a weaker class, A lot of power grinding to get to the top, griefing, all sorts of stuff come from pvp that dont really help the genre out much,.
I can live without pvp, i cant live without pvp, ive never enjoyed pure pvp games.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Like other offline RPG's, Morrowind has enough content for about 2 or 3 weeks entertainment and such games whilst perfectly good for what they offer are completely irrelevant to a discussion about MMORPG's which are a totally different style of game altogether.
Nope... carebears are for PvE, it's the brawlbears that likes PvP.
So, why would I not play a game that was 100 percent pve?
Because I can already play better pve games that ARE NOT online and ARE NOT mmos.
Can you be social with other people in those games?
But I guess that you aren't interested in being social.
Besides adding loads of people to a fantasy setting where I am the adventurer only serves to break the immersion and ruin the game
Loads of people to be social with.
Take for example, Morrowind Oblivion. That was an incredible single player experience in a fantasy setting.
If that was a mmo, I would have to hear how EPEEN#1 has a bigger sword than I do, is a higher level than me, already killed and looted that boss, I will hear spoilers, people will kill steal, the biggest baddest thing in game that I finally bested respawns a few minutes later........................and thats just the start.
Usually when someone copy/pastes, they want to argue each and every point, but all you wrote was "BE SOCIAL!".
A simple reply would of sufficed.
If I am playing a pve game, a game with story and immersion, incredible art, interesting story lines, the last thing I need is "SOCIAL". All the "OMGWTFBBQ" chat can stay out of my game.
It is akin to reading a great fiction book. It is done in quiet and peace. You dont invite your AOL IM buddies to chatter in your ear while reading the book, ruining the plot or complaining about the ending of the book
Like other offline RPG's, Morrowind has enough content for about 2 or 3 weeks entertainment and such games whilst perfectly good for what they offer are completely irrelevant to a discussion about MMORPG's which are a totally different style of game altogether.
Irrelevant? I made it relevant.
I said I would not like to play a mmo based purely on PVE because I can get my PVE fix from single player OffLine games.
You guys seem to ignore this part, but I also said a MUCH BETTER PVE EXPERIENCE!
Like other offline RPG's, Morrowind has enough content for about 2 or 3 weeks entertainment and such games whilst perfectly good for what they offer are completely irrelevant to a discussion about MMORPG's which are a totally different style of game altogether.
Irrelevant? I made it relevant.
I said I would not like to play a mmo based purely on PVE because I can get my PVE fix from single player OffLine games.
You guys seem to ignore this part, but I also said a MUCH BETTER PVE EXPERIENCE!
No, you tried to make it relevant but failed. MMO's offer a PvE experience that lasts continually in a dynamic and evolving world for years, your offline games offer PvE experience that lasts a couple of weeks in a fixed and sterile world. They're chalk and cheese. You're trying to compare things that aren't the same at all. if you prefer one to the other that's fine, but it doesn't make them the same things at all.
Looks like the poll results say it out loud. PvP is nowhere near as important as many posting on this site would have you think. And knowing that, I bet the number is even further skewed to "yes" among the general populace...
Kinda blows that whole, "LotRO would have zillions of subs if they just had full PvP" argument... it doesn't even stand a chance here in "leet" gamer-ville.
Well...remember that this site also represents a very specific portion of the overall population of mmo fans. Also you have to further break that down into the people who actually bothered to answer the poll. MMORPG.com is also a bit of an oddity where you find a greater number of "hardcore" gaming, pve loving, WoW hating people than anywhere else I've seen on the internet.
While some of those points are true, they support my argument. Wouldn't you agree that the folks that want PvP are generally more passionate about it than, say, folks who'd "be willing to play" a 100% PVE game? IMO, the pro-PvP people would be far more likely to vote.
The bit about this site being filled with WoW-haters, that's true, but PvE loving? One of the biggest gripes they tend to have about WoW here, is that it's primarily PvE, primary soloable from 1-80, and that the PvP is "simplistic", and they hate the battlegrounds because they're a special area for PvP instead of whole world.
The PvP people might also avoid this particular thread because it's focused on a PvE perspective. The question is not robust enough to really take much information away other than, yes people would considering playing a 100% PvE game.
Personally, I have been griefed more in PvE than I ever have in PvP. It's far easier for someone to come along and tag all of the mobs, or kill a spawn people are waiting for, or verbally harass a group when they cannot be actively attacked by anything that has a player controlling it. At least in PvP I can either kill them back or get a group to come and stomp them.
I haven't had this experience, but then, I play LotRO. Kill credit is locked by who makes the first shot, and you can /ignore idiots.
In the earlier days of MMORPGs there wasn't kill locking in some games, if any. People were able to make a general nuisence of themselves by leeching off xps. In today's average mmorpg, you generally just need to kill or collect X of Y and there isn't much room for griefing in that regard. However, I have also run into idiots who will clear an area with a high level character and then lol at you, or have someone swoop in and steal a resource node from me while killing a mob to get to it. Just because it's a PvE game doesn't mean there won't be griefing.
As for me, I like options. DAoC had just about the perfect set up for PvP. PvP for the sake of PvP (Darkfall for example) doesn't really appeal to many. However, if that PvP has a purpose, like DAoC, then it does have a greater appeal. Considering DAoC peaked around 200-250k subs, roughly half as many as EQ in it's prime, shows that PvP does have a wide appeal.
But as you can see by this poll, it may have a wide appeal, but it is by no means essential, or even important to most.
Where is DAoC, right now? See, it may have had a good share of the market at one time(for one, because few games were IN the market at the time), but when alternatives came along, people moved on.
DAoC's downfall was Trials of Atlantis, when they changed their decently balanced RvR game into a gear grind. Mythic did more damage to DAoC than any other game did. DAoC was the first mmo that had true meaning behind the RvR system. While there were fewer games back then, the overall player base was smaller too, and DAoC had a significant portion of that marketshare. There were PvE alternatives, that did it better, but many choose DAoC because of the RvR system.
In terms of LotRO, there is no way to know whether the game would have had more success if the PvP system had been anything more than an afterthought. Even if they added it now the game wouldn't be any moe successful, that ship has sailed and people look towards the future not the past generally.
Not the people on this board. Threads about the F2P move are littered with "game is fail. if only they had PvP", or "remember Middle Earth Online? If only they made that..."(despite the fact that they pretty much did). You can read them for yourself.
That doesn't really refute my point though. LotRO never had a robust PvP system, so we will never actually know if that played a role or not with the level of success that LotRO did meet. Speculation or idle banter prove nothing.
All of that being said. If a PvE game came along that had no PvP, but had an excellent story that got the character involved I might play it. However, the resources that would have been used for PvP need to be used to make additional PvE content on a regular basis in order to make up for the content that PvP itself generates.
I wouldn't disagree here. Though I'd add that as a developer creating PVE content, you can create new ideas and technology to create different experiences. With PvP, you tend to spend alot of your time reinventing the wheel, nerfing, OP'ing, and listen to players bellyache over the current FotM. Cooperative gameplay is alot easier to maintain and easier to fix when broken than competitive content is.
I can agree with this. Reinventing the wheel numerous times is a unfortunate side-effect of PvP in mmos, but it's also necessary to improve the game.
I'm not saying that PvP doesn't have its place, and I'd agree that PvP with a purpose beats a PvP FFA Full loot system. But I'd say that this poll, and the market, are telling us that PvP MMO's of any kind aren't missed much by very many people.
Again, the results of this poll are from an extremely small (and biased) sample. The question asked is a yes or no question, which does not make it robust enough to prove anything other than people would play a 100% PvE game. This small poll does not reflect even 1% of what the overall market may or may not think. You're reading far too much into this poll.
Well, at the very least, I think that this poll shows clearly where the market is.
I think it shows that your head is clearly up your...
Your assuming that mmorpg.com/forums is the whole market.
I CLEARLY conclude that 80 percent of the type of people that like to visit mmorpg forums would rather play a pve game.
Its probably even less than that. Because I highly doubt that every semi active user even saw this thread or commented on it.
From all the people I know that play mmos, none of them visit forums like this. And if I was to pick which of my friends would be most likely to visit a forum like this, my pvp-centric friends would be the least likely.
You're so far off it's not even funny...
If anything this Site has a FAR higher PvP representation that the average population because most folks here are more avid MMO gamers...You honestly think MMORPG.com is full of casual players? Most folks find this site when they're banned or suspended from Official Forums...lol...
I know that's an over exaggeration...But seriously...The PvP population is VERY well represented here...The Poll is what it is...780 plus votes and counting...That's plenty...Sure it's just this site...But 780 votes is more than enough to prove a trend...Are the true numbers more like 75%? Maybe...But does it really matter? The fact is a pretty decent majority of folks would play an MMO without PvP assuming of coarse the PvE was solid and more importantly fun...That's all there is to that...
The fact is a pretty decent majority of folks would play an MMO without PvP assuming of coarse the PvE was solid and more importantly fun...That's all there is to that...
Exactly, and the proof is in the fact that whenever a solid PvE game offers some PvP as well there's never more than about 10% who PvP regularly. Games like WoW, EQ, EQ2, LoTRO, AoC, heck even WAR offer both PvE and PvP and there are always far more people PvE'ing at any one time than there are PvP'ing. Check the number of PvP and PvE servers in those games that offer a choice, the evidence is there to see.
PvP is great for those who want it, but the overwhelming majority do not, at least on a regular basis. All this poll does is confirm the situation we all know to be true, namely that most MMO players aren't that interested in PvP even if quite a lot of them tinker with it occasionally. As for the hardcore PvP'ers, they mostly stick to either PK games or FPS's. The ones we see in MMORPG's are mainly (not totally) the real "carebears" as they're only interested in PvP'ing as long as the odds are stacked well in their favour.
I voted NO ofc. Facing human opponents in an MMO is quite important to me. If playing strict against the AI was my only concern i would stick solely to single player games.
The fact is a pretty decent majority of folks would play an MMO without PvP assuming of coarse the PvE was solid and more importantly fun...That's all there is to that...
Exactly, and the proof is in the fact that whenever a solid PvE game offers some PvP as well there's never more than about 10% who PvP regularly. Games like WoW, EQ, EQ2, LoTRO, AoC, heck even WAR offer both PvE and PvP and there are always far more people PvE'ing at any one time than there are PvP'ing. Check the number of PvP and PvE servers in those games that offer a choice, the evidence is there to see.
PvP is great for those who want it, but the overwhelming majority do not, at least on a regular basis. All this poll does is confirm the situation we all know to be true, namely that most MMO players aren't that interested in PvP even if quite a lot of them tinker with it occasionally. As for the hardcore PvP'ers, they mostly stick to either PK games or FPS's. The ones we see in MMORPG's are mainly (not totally) the real "carebears" as they're only interested in PvP'ing as long as the odds are stacked well in their favour.
I agree with Shadewalker. And I am one of these MMORPGers that doesn't usually PvP, but I PvP a lot in FPSs. The freedom to create and customize your powers in an RPG doesn't lend itself for me to PvP well. It becomes merely a more complicated game of rock, paper, shotgun, not big game hunting. The better PvP I've experienced in MMOs is where everyone is the same (Darkfall and Aion) and that just kills role play.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
The fact is a pretty decent majority of folks would play an MMO without PvP assuming of coarse the PvE was solid and more importantly fun...That's all there is to that...
Exactly, and the proof is in the fact that whenever a solid PvE game offers some PvP as well there's never more than about 10% who PvP regularly. Games like WoW, EQ, EQ2, LoTRO, AoC, heck even WAR offer both PvE and PvP and there are always far more people PvE'ing at any one time than there are PvP'ing. Check the number of PvP and PvE servers in those games that offer a choice, the evidence is there to see.
PvP is great for those who want it, but the overwhelming majority do not, at least on a regular basis. All this poll does is confirm the situation we all know to be true, namely that most MMO players aren't that interested in PvP even if quite a lot of them tinker with it occasionally. As for the hardcore PvP'ers, they mostly stick to either PK games or FPS's. The ones we see in MMORPG's are mainly (not totally) the real "carebears" as they're only interested in PvP'ing as long as the odds are stacked well in their favour.
I agree with you completely. The sad thing is that developers spend an obscene amount of time and resources tinkering with aspects of the game that only a small fraction are really all that interested in. A good case in point is WoW's current drive to entice players into their Arena combat. It won't work, but as long as the sub numbers remain high, they'll keep readjusting the game around PvP in hopes of finding the magic combination. Look what happened to their one long-awaited Epic Class when the malcontents cried "OP!" Now there's nothing Epic about Death Knights. I usually only log in to mine when I need to collect herbs or minerals.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II "People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
sure i would, as long as the box fee and expansions/content were offered in a way my wallet can stomach...pvp is nice occasionally (holiday events in GW) but i dont miss it much...
The fact is a pretty decent majority of folks would play an MMO without PvP assuming of coarse the PvE was solid and more importantly fun...That's all there is to that...
Exactly, and the proof is in the fact that whenever a solid PvE game offers some PvP as well there's never more than about 10% who PvP regularly. Games like WoW, EQ, EQ2, LoTRO, AoC, heck even WAR offer both PvE and PvP and there are always far more people PvE'ing at any one time than there are PvP'ing. Check the number of PvP and PvE servers in those games that offer a choice, the evidence is there to see.
PvP is great for those who want it, but the overwhelming majority do not, at least on a regular basis. All this poll does is confirm the situation we all know to be true, namely that most MMO players aren't that interested in PvP even if quite a lot of them tinker with it occasionally. As for the hardcore PvP'ers, they mostly stick to either PK games or FPS's. The ones we see in MMORPG's are mainly (not totally) the real "carebears" as they're only interested in PvP'ing as long as the odds are stacked well in their favour.
Great post.
I agree with your point about PVP in MMORPGs being the epitome of carebear. When they flex their e-peen, over killing helpless players, it shows what a total joke they are.
I game to have a good time. Not to grief/gank, which is far too common a practice in PVP focused MMOs.
Hardcore PVP folks are their own worst enemy.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I voted yes. I like pvp, but it's just a feature, and badly implemented pvp is no better than no pvp. Most MMOs have classes or a similar mechanic. If a game has any pvp, classes need to be fairly balanced, or it will get a bad reputation. I'd rather see the developers focusing on making classes fun to play and unique than balanced. Those aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, but I'm sure most people reading these forums have experienced how even minor changes for a class can make, or break it for pvp and result in forums being flooded with nerdrage, which again makes the game less attractive both for potential buyers and existing players. In a pve centric game, class balance still matters, but it's easier to make every class useful in a group setting than it is to balance pvp viability.
Fun is always the most important part of any game for me. PvP might add to the fun, but doesn't guarantee it. Implementing pvp in a game that wasn't designed around that particular feature, usually doesn't make it more fun, and the balancing and community reactions could take a game from fun to not worth it.
Comments
I think it shows that your head is clearly up your...
Your assuming that mmorpg.com/forums is the whole market.
I CLEARLY conclude that 80 percent of the type of people that like to visit mmorpg forums would rather play a pve game.
Its probably even less than that. Because I highly doubt that every semi active user even saw this thread or commented on it.
From all the people I know that play mmos, none of them visit forums like this. And if I was to pick which of my friends would be most likely to visit a forum like this, my pvp-centric friends would be the least likely.
No it doesnt. The question is the wrong one for that. If someone could enjoy a 100% PVE MMO, that doesnt mean that the same person wouldnt enjoy a PVE+PVP MMO. Or a FFA PVP MMO for that matter.
You can expect that most players have a broader taste then what the question covers.
Absolutely no way would I play a PvE only game. Where is the fun in that? Where is the freedom?
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
I don't see the point to a pve only mmo. I played Morrowind and after the final battle I was like man I wasted all that time and for what? There is nothing to do with all this cool gear I got. In a pvp mmo at least you can always progress in your pvp skill and the work you do in pve helps you with pvp so it makes sense and gives gives purpose to your character in a way.
Morrowind wasn't, however, an MMO. So I'd say that "point" is kind of moot, since it has nothing to do with PvE MMOs.
On topic:
I like both MMOs with AND without PvP. It really depends on the game itself and how they handle those two features. Some games suck WITH PvP because they don't implement it in a way that is FUN. Other games suck without it, sometimes in part due to their PvE not being FUN.
Six of one half a dozen of the other. Just entirely depends on the game as a WHOLE, for me.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Yeah....and ll THAT ^^^^^ too!
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I almost never play games online unless its an online game. That means the vast majority of games I play are completely PVE and I play a lot of games. For those games where its available some of the most fun I've had has been co-op experiences as well. I'm perfectly happy playing a PVE game because I enjoy the shared experience with other people rather than a competitive one.
Nothing I've seen in my years of playing MMOG's has shown me that the people who style themselves as PVP'ers are people I generally want to associate with, although I've met a few I've been friendly with. The maturity level is almost universally low and they're far more prone to take ANY advantage available whether its allowed or not. The same mentality that allows them to shrug off losses in pvp or be full looted is the same one that makes them have little attachment to people, the game, or their account and increases the odds they'll engage in risky or adverse behavior because of it.
I'm certainly not holding PVE'ers above PVP'ers, but as a group I've found PVE'ers to have a broader spectrum of personality, as opposed to people who consider themselves PVP'ers.
I played FFXI before ballista - so I guess, ya.
Hell yeah!
The one thing ive realized in every MMO with pvp is... Pvp destroys games in the long run.
Classes start getting nerfed because players dont like feeling like they chose a weaker class, A lot of power grinding to get to the top, griefing, all sorts of stuff come from pvp that dont really help the genre out much,.
I can live without pvp, i cant live without pvp, ive never enjoyed pure pvp games.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Like other offline RPG's, Morrowind has enough content for about 2 or 3 weeks entertainment and such games whilst perfectly good for what they offer are completely irrelevant to a discussion about MMORPG's which are a totally different style of game altogether.
Pure pve? nope, a little pvp is always fun to break up the monotony.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
Usually when someone copy/pastes, they want to argue each and every point, but all you wrote was "BE SOCIAL!".
A simple reply would of sufficed.
If I am playing a pve game, a game with story and immersion, incredible art, interesting story lines, the last thing I need is "SOCIAL". All the "OMGWTFBBQ" chat can stay out of my game.
It is akin to reading a great fiction book. It is done in quiet and peace. You dont invite your AOL IM buddies to chatter in your ear while reading the book, ruining the plot or complaining about the ending of the book
Irrelevant? I made it relevant.
I said I would not like to play a mmo based purely on PVE because I can get my PVE fix from single player OffLine games.
You guys seem to ignore this part, but I also said a MUCH BETTER PVE EXPERIENCE!
No, you tried to make it relevant but failed. MMO's offer a PvE experience that lasts continually in a dynamic and evolving world for years, your offline games offer PvE experience that lasts a couple of weeks in a fixed and sterile world. They're chalk and cheese. You're trying to compare things that aren't the same at all. if you prefer one to the other that's fine, but it doesn't make them the same things at all.
You're so far off it's not even funny...
If anything this Site has a FAR higher PvP representation that the average population because most folks here are more avid MMO gamers...You honestly think MMORPG.com is full of casual players? Most folks find this site when they're banned or suspended from Official Forums...lol...
I know that's an over exaggeration...But seriously...The PvP population is VERY well represented here...The Poll is what it is...780 plus votes and counting...That's plenty...Sure it's just this site...But 780 votes is more than enough to prove a trend...Are the true numbers more like 75%? Maybe...But does it really matter? The fact is a pretty decent majority of folks would play an MMO without PvP assuming of coarse the PvE was solid and more importantly fun...That's all there is to that...
Exactly, and the proof is in the fact that whenever a solid PvE game offers some PvP as well there's never more than about 10% who PvP regularly. Games like WoW, EQ, EQ2, LoTRO, AoC, heck even WAR offer both PvE and PvP and there are always far more people PvE'ing at any one time than there are PvP'ing. Check the number of PvP and PvE servers in those games that offer a choice, the evidence is there to see.
PvP is great for those who want it, but the overwhelming majority do not, at least on a regular basis. All this poll does is confirm the situation we all know to be true, namely that most MMO players aren't that interested in PvP even if quite a lot of them tinker with it occasionally. As for the hardcore PvP'ers, they mostly stick to either PK games or FPS's. The ones we see in MMORPG's are mainly (not totally) the real "carebears" as they're only interested in PvP'ing as long as the odds are stacked well in their favour.
~81% voted yes? That's a surprise for me.
I voted NO ofc. Facing human opponents in an MMO is quite important to me. If playing strict against the AI was my only concern i would stick solely to single player games.
I agree with Shadewalker. And I am one of these MMORPGers that doesn't usually PvP, but I PvP a lot in FPSs. The freedom to create and customize your powers in an RPG doesn't lend itself for me to PvP well. It becomes merely a more complicated game of rock, paper, shotgun, not big game hunting. The better PvP I've experienced in MMOs is where everyone is the same (Darkfall and Aion) and that just kills role play.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
I agree with you completely. The sad thing is that developers spend an obscene amount of time and resources tinkering with aspects of the game that only a small fraction are really all that interested in. A good case in point is WoW's current drive to entice players into their Arena combat. It won't work, but as long as the sub numbers remain high, they'll keep readjusting the game around PvP in hopes of finding the magic combination. Look what happened to their one long-awaited Epic Class when the malcontents cried "OP!" Now there's nothing Epic about Death Knights. I usually only log in to mine when I need to collect herbs or minerals.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
sure i would, as long as the box fee and expansions/content were offered in a way my wallet can stomach...pvp is nice occasionally (holiday events in GW) but i dont miss it much...
Great post.
I agree with your point about PVP in MMORPGs being the epitome of carebear. When they flex their e-peen, over killing helpless players, it shows what a total joke they are.
I game to have a good time. Not to grief/gank, which is far too common a practice in PVP focused MMOs.
Hardcore PVP folks are their own worst enemy.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I voted yes. I like pvp, but it's just a feature, and badly implemented pvp is no better than no pvp. Most MMOs have classes or a similar mechanic. If a game has any pvp, classes need to be fairly balanced, or it will get a bad reputation. I'd rather see the developers focusing on making classes fun to play and unique than balanced. Those aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, but I'm sure most people reading these forums have experienced how even minor changes for a class can make, or break it for pvp and result in forums being flooded with nerdrage, which again makes the game less attractive both for potential buyers and existing players. In a pve centric game, class balance still matters, but it's easier to make every class useful in a group setting than it is to balance pvp viability.
Fun is always the most important part of any game for me. PvP might add to the fun, but doesn't guarantee it. Implementing pvp in a game that wasn't designed around that particular feature, usually doesn't make it more fun, and the balancing and community reactions could take a game from fun to not worth it.