The thing is, there's more than one path to take in DF....more than one way. Just because you choose to PVE yourselves into burnout, doesn't mean that others have to, or that your claims of it being a "PVE heavy grind fest" are true. Alternatives have been given repeatedly, but you'd rather whine about the grind anyway, wether you claim to enjoy the game or not. nearly every thread on this forum gets hijacked into a PVE / grind whine by the same couple of posters, and it's not necessary....it's dangerously close to trolling, in fact.
I don't quite understand why you think I am whining. I've never whined about the grind in darkfall only been blunt with the truth. I don't lie to players who are thinking about purchasing the game like most of the people on here who almost seem to be employees of aventurine they are so adamantly defending them.
I do however understand why you would call it trolling. It's hard to dispute the truth so use the default argument of "hes a troll."
Your "truth" has been disputed repeatedly. However, when you continue to chant the same mantra regardless, there's simply no point in disputing it again.
It makes it rather obvious that you're not looking for a solution, you're just posting the same thing because you feel the need to interject your whine into every thread, in an attempt to troll.
Let's try it on another game that is similar: Eve. Let's say tomorrow that they made it so everyone in Eve had a shot against everyone else. Do you think people that have played that game for years would be happy? They could make a new game that's like Eve with the new rules, but changing Eve, like Darkfall, that drastically, is impossible. What you're asking for is comparable to wanting a newbie in WoW to be competative in Arena against level 80s.
Everyone in EVE does have a shot against everyone else. A 3 month and a 3 year player aren't on a level footing when it comes to versatility, but it's very far from unkown for 3 year old players to lose ships to 3 monthers. If a player in a T1 cruiser like an T1 Autocannon-fitted Rupture catches a guy in a sniper-fitted battleship, the battleship is going to die in a fire even if it's fully Tech2/Faction fit, and piloted by an all level 5 skills 7 year veteran.
I dont know if that scenario could translate to Darkfall. I guess the equivalent would be something like a knife fighter catching a pikeman in a dark alleyway and getting inside his swing. But swapping a ship in EVE essentially means leaving the fight and getting home. Swapping a weapon in Darkfall is likely going to be much quicker.
3 monthers in Darkfall do have a shot against vets. What the OP is talking about is 3 dayers, not 3 monthers.
The same argument applies, except that the 3-dayers in EVE would have a more limited range of possible targets. There's a fairly famous vid on youtube of 2 guys making 1-day alts, putting them into Rifters (T1 frigates) and going on a killing spree. Player skill and a wllingness to accept trivial losses allow very low skill characters to be used with considerable success.
I sense the Eve fanboi is strong with this one.
Are we talking about experienced vets making alts and teaming up against 3 year old vets, or teaming up against newbies? 2 experienced 3 day old player alts in Darkfall can team up and kill other 3 day old players, or even 2 week players, but not a 1 year player.
The OP was talking about a newbie that barely knows how to switch weapons being able to defend himself in Darkfall against a vet. If a one year vet decides to kill a 3 day old player that's mining some asteroid in Eve, would the newbie have a chance?
Besides, Darkfall is more hardcore than Eve. There is no "safe sector" to gain skils in. You can offline train up skills in Eve but not in Darkfall (unless you macro and want to risk getting banned). Nobody is saying Darkfall isn't hardcore.
But the point I'm trying to make is that gaining skills in Eve is meaningful (I'm assuming, unless it really sucks that much), otherwise there's little incentive to do it. The same applies with Darkfall and if they made everyone have "a chance" against everyone else tomorrow, they would inevitably piss off the vets.
Unless I'm wrong about Eve. Would 3 year old players mind if 3 day old players in Eve could defend themselves against them if a 3 year old decided to gank them?
The thing is, there's more than one path to take in DF....more than one way. Just because you choose to PVE yourselves into burnout, doesn't mean that others have to, or that your claims of it being a "PVE heavy grind fest" are true. Alternatives have been given repeatedly, but you'd rather whine about the grind anyway, wether you claim to enjoy the game or not. nearly every thread on this forum gets hijacked into a PVE / grind whine by the same couple of posters, and it's not necessary....it's dangerously close to trolling, in fact.
I don't quite understand why you think I am whining. I've never whined about the grind in darkfall only been blunt with the truth. I don't lie to players who are thinking about purchasing the game like most of the people on here who almost seem to be employees of aventurine they are so adamantly defending them.
I do however understand why you would call it trolling. It's hard to dispute the truth so use the default argument of "hes a troll."
Your "truth" has been disputed repeatedly. However, when you continue to chant the same mantra regardless, there's simply no point in disputing it again.
It makes it rather obvious that you're not looking for a solution, you're just posting the same thing because you feel the need to interject your whine into every thread, in an attempt to troll.
I want to make sure people who are considering the game know what to expect, instead of listening to a sales pitch. I laugh every time someone mentions that darkfall isn't what they expected or posts on the forums saying "I thought it was going to be good" etc.. because the only information they got was from fanatics who suck on aventurines nuts at every given chance.
Unless I'm wrong about Eve. Would 3 year old players mind if 3 day old players in Eve could defend themselves against them if a 3 year old decided to gank them?
yeah, you're wrong. Most 3 year old players that I know of would cheer the 3 day guy to the skies. Because it is possible, given player knowledge and player skills. If there's one thing older players like to see it's a new guy with the brass nuts to ignore all the whining and naysayers, and get out there and do it. Because it's possible - not easy, but possible.
Is that different from Darkfall? I kinda sorta maybe suspect and hope it isn't.
I want to make sure people who are considering the game know what to expect, instead of listening to a sales pitch. I laugh every time someone mentions that darkfall isn't what they expected or posts on the forums saying "I thought it was going to be good" etc.. because the only information they got was from fanatics who suck on aventurines nuts at every given chance.
Sales pitch, lol. Can't you do better than that?
I've recently noticed many threads/posts that say the opposite of what you're claiming. New players are often surprised how good the game actually is in comparison to some of the negative opinions posted around here.
P.S. I am sure there are many grateful forum goers with slightly fatter wallets that have no one to thank but you and your helpful warning flag. Look at them all, they're lining up right now.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I want to make sure people who are considering the game know what to expect, instead of listening to a sales pitch. I laugh every time someone mentions that darkfall isn't what they expected or posts on the forums saying "I thought it was going to be good" etc.. because the only information they got was from fanatics who suck on aventurines nuts at every given chance.
Sales pitch, lol. Can't you do better than that?
I've recently noticed many threads/posts that say the opposite of what you're claiming. New players are often surprised how good the game actually is in comparison to some of the negative opinions posted around here.
P.S. I am sure there are many grateful forum goers with slightly fatter wallets that have no one to thank but you and your helpful warning flag. Look at them all, they're lining up right now.
I think you're confused. I'm not trying to deter people from trying to buy the game, I'm making sure that anyone who loves PvE gives this game a chance. Most people think darkfall is hardcore PvP. We all know its really not, it simply has open-world PvP which many games already have. I think ive mentioned this before but you can be competitive in PvP faster in WoW than you can in this game.
Unless I'm wrong about Eve. Would 3 year old players mind if 3 day old players in Eve could defend themselves against them if a 3 year old decided to gank them?
yeah, you're wrong. Most 3 year old players that I know of would cheer the 3 day guy to the skies. Because it is possible, given player knowledge and player skills. If there's one thing older players like to see it's a new guy with the brass nuts to ignore all the whining and naysayers, and get out there and do it. Because it's possible - not easy, but possible.
Is that different from Darkfall? I kinda sorta maybe suspect and hope it isn't.
If a 1 year old player decides to gank a 3 day old player, the 3 day old player will lose. Guaranteed.
I'm confused though- why do people bother putting themselves in "the egg timer" in Eve for 3 months (I even read recently of a guy planning on doing it for a full year) if it's only skills that matter in PVP?
The thing is, there's more than one path to take in DF....more than one way. Just because you choose to PVE yourselves into burnout, doesn't mean that others have to, or that your claims of it being a "PVE heavy grind fest" are true. Alternatives have been given repeatedly, but you'd rather whine about the grind anyway, wether you claim to enjoy the game or not. nearly every thread on this forum gets hijacked into a PVE / grind whine by the same couple of posters, and it's not necessary....it's dangerously close to trolling, in fact.
I don't quite understand why you think I am whining. I've never whined about the grind in darkfall only been blunt with the truth. I don't lie to players who are thinking about purchasing the game like most of the people on here who almost seem to be employees of aventurine they are so adamantly defending them.
I do however understand why you would call it trolling. It's hard to dispute the truth so use the default argument of "hes a troll."
Your "truth" has been disputed repeatedly. However, when you continue to chant the same mantra regardless, there's simply no point in disputing it again.
It makes it rather obvious that you're not looking for a solution, you're just posting the same thing because you feel the need to interject your whine into every thread, in an attempt to troll.
I want to make sure people who are considering the game know what to expect, instead of listening to a sales pitch. I laugh every time someone mentions that darkfall isn't what they expected or posts on the forums saying "I thought it was going to be good" etc.. because the only information they got was from fanatics who suck on aventurines nuts at every given chance.
I guarantee that no "fanatic" would ever say anything that would lead anyone to believe "Darkfall would be [a game] that relied on twitch based skills as much as player progression, one that allowed you to jump right into the action and defend yourself from or attack any interlopers who crossed you."
I don't know what kind of "advertising" you think you're combating, but from what I read before I started the game, it's actually not as rough as most people say it is.
If you consider people saying they "think the game is good" is a "sales pitch", then obviously you just really don't like the game. I love the game. Am I advertising by saying that, or "sucking AV's nuts"?
OP I 100% agree with everything you said. So do the other 3 people who joined with me months ago and all quit due to the grind...
But you are barking up the wrong tree here on these forums. All you will get are replies from people like Wharg0ul and Agricola who think the game is perfect the way it is and do not agree that the grind is ridiculous. You will never get them to budge one inch from that point of view.
Seeing as how Aventurine seems to want only these types of players, I don't think we will see anything improve anytime soon. It will happen eventually though... they will only accept the currently horrible player retention rate for so long.
The thing is, there's more than one path to take in DF....more than one way. Just because you choose to PVE yourselves into burnout, doesn't mean that others have to, or that your claims of it being a "PVE heavy grind fest" are true. Alternatives have been given repeatedly, but you'd rather whine about the grind anyway, wether you claim to enjoy the game or not. nearly every thread on this forum gets hijacked into a PVE / grind whine by the same couple of posters, and it's not necessary....it's dangerously close to trolling, in fact.
I don't quite understand why you think I am whining. I've never whined about the grind in darkfall only been blunt with the truth. I don't lie to players who are thinking about purchasing the game like most of the people on here who almost seem to be employees of aventurine they are so adamantly defending them.
I do however understand why you would call it trolling. It's hard to dispute the truth so use the default argument of "hes a troll."
Your "truth" has been disputed repeatedly. However, when you continue to chant the same mantra regardless, there's simply no point in disputing it again.
It makes it rather obvious that you're not looking for a solution, you're just posting the same thing because you feel the need to interject your whine into every thread, in an attempt to troll.
I want to make sure people who are considering the game know what to expect, instead of listening to a sales pitch. I laugh every time someone mentions that darkfall isn't what they expected or posts on the forums saying "I thought it was going to be good" etc.. because the only information they got was from fanatics who suck on aventurines nuts at every given chance.
I guarantee that no "fanatic" would ever say anything that would lead anyone to believe "Darkfall would be [a game] that relied on twitch based skills as much as player progression, one that allowed you to jump right into the action and defend yourself from or attack any interlopers who crossed you."
I don't know what kind of "advertising" you think you're combating, but from what I read before I started the game, it's actually not as rough as most people say it is.
If you consider people saying they "think the game is good" is a "sales pitch", then obviously you just really don't like the game. I love the game. Am I advertising by saying that, or "sucking AV's nuts"?
Most players come into the game thinking they can PvP right away. Of course we all know this doesn't work and there is a huge grind before you are able to PvP with a respectable chance of winning. 2 people i knew also joined the game thinking they could PvP without the huge grind because they were mislead. They quit the game shortly after realizing how many mobs they needed to kill. There is a widespread lie being thrown around that there isn't a huge grind in this game.
Most players come into the game thinking they can PvP right away. Of course we all know this doesn't work and there is a huge grind before you are able to PvP with a respectable chance of winning. 2 people i knew also joined the game thinking they could PvP without the huge grind because they were mislead. They quit the game shortly after realizing how many mobs they needed to kill. There is a widespread lie being thrown around that there isn't a huge grind in this game.
QFT
There is an absolutely massive grind in Darkfall and people deserve to know that fact before they start.
The thing is, there's more than one path to take in DF....more than one way. Just because you choose to PVE yourselves into burnout, doesn't mean that others have to, or that your claims of it being a "PVE heavy grind fest" are true. Alternatives have been given repeatedly, but you'd rather whine about the grind anyway, wether you claim to enjoy the game or not. nearly every thread on this forum gets hijacked into a PVE / grind whine by the same couple of posters, and it's not necessary....it's dangerously close to trolling, in fact.
I don't quite understand why you think I am whining. I've never whined about the grind in darkfall only been blunt with the truth. I don't lie to players who are thinking about purchasing the game like most of the people on here who almost seem to be employees of aventurine they are so adamantly defending them.
I do however understand why you would call it trolling. It's hard to dispute the truth so use the default argument of "hes a troll."
Your "truth" has been disputed repeatedly. However, when you continue to chant the same mantra regardless, there's simply no point in disputing it again.
It makes it rather obvious that you're not looking for a solution, you're just posting the same thing because you feel the need to interject your whine into every thread, in an attempt to troll.
I want to make sure people who are considering the game know what to expect, instead of listening to a sales pitch. I laugh every time someone mentions that darkfall isn't what they expected or posts on the forums saying "I thought it was going to be good" etc.. because the only information they got was from fanatics who suck on aventurines nuts at every given chance.
I guarantee that no "fanatic" would ever say anything that would lead anyone to believe "Darkfall would be [a game] that relied on twitch based skills as much as player progression, one that allowed you to jump right into the action and defend yourself from or attack any interlopers who crossed you."
I don't know what kind of "advertising" you think you're combating, but from what I read before I started the game, it's actually not as rough as most people say it is.
If you consider people saying they "think the game is good" is a "sales pitch", then obviously you just really don't like the game. I love the game. Am I advertising by saying that, or "sucking AV's nuts"?
Most players come into the game thinking they can PvP right away. Of course we all know this doesn't work and there is a huge grind before you are able to PvP with a respectable chance of winning. 2 people i knew also joined the game thinking they could PvP without the huge grind because they were mislead. They quit the game shortly after realizing how many mobs they needed to kill. There is a widespread lie being thrown around that there isn't a huge grind in this game.
Who exactly is misleading them? Can you link me to one thread by someone that plays Darkfall that says you can start the game and right off the bat have a chance in PVP? I never read that everywhere. Does AV say that on their website anywhere?
What I have read is the opposite, and people saying you'll never have a chance against vets in PVP starting this late, which also isn't true. As far as I can tell, if you get one weapon mastery up to a decent level, archery up and some magic, you can defend yourself if you play well. This can be accomplished in a month, which is about the same amount of time it would take a newbie in WoW to have a chance to kill a vet in WoW.
If someone doesn't read up on the game and just assumes that you can kill vets right from the gate, who's fault is that?
I don't think anyone playing Darkfall is trying to mislead people into buying the game by saying there isn't an initial grind. What would be the point? Those people would just quit and then badmouth the game.
I want to make sure people who are considering the game know what to expect, instead of listening to a sales pitch. I laugh every time someone mentions that darkfall isn't what they expected or posts on the forums saying "I thought it was going to be good" etc.. because the only information they got was from fanatics who suck on aventurines nuts at every given chance.
Sales pitch, lol. Can't you do better than that?
I've recently noticed many threads/posts that say the opposite of what you're claiming. New players are often surprised how good the game actually is in comparison to some of the negative opinions posted around here.
P.S. I am sure there are many grateful forum goers with slightly fatter wallets that have no one to thank but you and your helpful warning flag. Look at them all, they're lining up right now.
I think you're confused. I'm not trying to deter people from trying to buy the game, I'm making sure that anyone who loves PvE gives this game a chance. Most people think darkfall is hardcore PvP. We all know its really not, it simply has open-world PvP which many games already have. I think ive mentioned this before but you can be competitive in PvP faster in WoW than you can in this game.
I even remember DAoC and how you could powerlevel a character to 50 in less than a week, even just a couple days. You know a company knows how to do PvP when they let you get max level that quickly. That's a real PvP game. Too bad aventurine couldn't learn from that. Every time I see someone say "OMG ITS AN MMORPG WUT DO U XPECT U HAVE TO ADVANCE UR CHAR?? 3 MONTH GRIND ZOOMG" I laugh and remember DAoC and how mythic knew how to do PvP.
The point is that a PvP-centric game should be about the PvP. A grind is to be expected in any MMORPG, but it only serves as an annoyance and a roadblock in a PvP title. The ridiculous grind in Darkfall basically makes the barrier for entry much too high for any casual gamers and even for most hardcore PvPers who just really don't enjoy grinding (like myself)...
If a player can reach max level in UO, AC, SWG, WOW, etc. and begin competing with veterans in a few months time without completely grinding their asses off, the same should DEFINITELY be possible in a game that is supposed to be entirely focused on PvP.
I even remember DAoC and how you could powerlevel a character to 50 in less than a week, even just a couple days. You know a company knows how to do PvP when they let you get max level that quickly. That's a real PvP game. Too bad aventurine couldn't learn from that. Every time I see someone say "OMG ITS AN MMORPG WUT DO U XPECT U HAVE TO ADVANCE UR CHAR?? 3 MONTH GRIND ZOOMG" I laugh and remember DAoC and how mythic knew how to do PvP.
Have fun in DAoC then or Warhammer, I hear they're both full of happy PvPers glad they're playing a game run by a company that knows what it's doing.
Incase you didn't know I was being sarcastic!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
I even remember DAoC and how you could powerlevel a character to 50 in less than a week, even just a couple days. You know a company knows how to do PvP when they let you get max level that quickly. That's a real PvP game. Too bad aventurine couldn't learn from that. Every time I see someone say "OMG ITS AN MMORPG WUT DO U XPECT U HAVE TO ADVANCE UR CHAR?? 3 MONTH GRIND ZOOMG" I laugh and remember DAoC and how mythic knew how to do PvP.
If I could skill up my character that fast in Darkfall, I would have quite after a few days. I know I wouldn't have been alone.
"You know a company knows how to do PvP when they let you get max level that quickly." This sentence speaks volumes about the type of gamer you are, and the expectations that you have. What you're asking for would result in a game that is not even an mmorpg at all.
This is getting a little on the redundant side, wouldn't you say?
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Who exactly is misleading them? Can you link me to one thread by someone that plays Darkfall that says you can start the game and right off the bat have a chance in PVP? I never read that everywhere. Does AV say that on their website anywhere? What I have read is the opposite, and people saying you'll never have a chance against vets in PVP starting this late, which also isn't true. As far as I can tell, if you get one weapon mastery up to a decent level, archery up and some magic, you can defend yourself if you play well. This can be accomplished in a month, which is about the same amount of time it would take a newbie in WoW to have a chance to kill a vet in WoW. If someone doesn't read up on the game and just assumes that you can kill vets right from the gate, who's fault is that? I don't think anyone playing Darkfall is trying to mislead people into buying the game by saying there isn't an initial grind. What would be the point? Those people would just quit and then badmouth the game.
Highlighted area, specifically...
I really don't want to get back into the Darkfall discussion, but oh well. I'm pretty sure you just answered your own initial question. One month is a reasonable time-frame for anyone to expect some base level of participation in such a "PVP-based game". As you've just informed everyone, that is possible within a month. Specifically, a player will be all but forced to level a melee mastery and archery due to the extremely high cost for a new player to level magic out of the gate. It's the only truly sensible route to take, given that during the process of leveling those skills, a player will inevitably generate some decent gold, and likely gather a fair number of reagents. If they also find time to gather, all the better as they'll likely be in a position to craft eventually as well. That's not to mention the fact that a player who focused purely on magic would have utter garbage health and stamina without a massive investment of time into gathering (mining and logging).
That said, to accomplish such a thing within a month would and will require a very substantial time investment. I'm not just talking 2-3 hours each day, but more in line with 8+ for that initial month. Those 8 don't necessarily need to be entirely active - clicking a node and afk'ing for 10 minutes while it's gathered seems to be the norm, and why we likely hear so much from the likes of Agricola and Wharg0ul.
Now, I don't know about everyone who plays Darkfall, but I'm pretty sure that melee and archery aren't the only skills they intend to use. I mean, conversions play a huge role in a player's success in PVP. Of course, as a buddy of mine I started with put it, "get to Witches Brew and you finally have a real heal!" So, now you'll need to make sure your lesser magic is of decent level (don't remember the specifics, and this is relatively quick/easy), you'll need greater magic to 50? I believe, as well as 75 Witchcraft, which is no easy feat no matter who you ask... that is unless they played during the era of bugged mobs that allowed you to debuff them for hours at a time for maximum skillups and no misses.
So you've managed your 2H and archery mastery, and you've got witches brew, and your conversions are respectably moving along. Are you still in that "one month" time frame? My guess is no, short of some serious macro and bloodwall loving. If you've really managed your time well, you sleep while your toon swims into a wall somewhere out of sight, and if you're extra productive, you're macro'ing some manner of magic then as well. But wait....
IMHO, melee kind of sucks in this game. So if you're not a fan of sprint-jousting someone to death with your 2H of choice (archery isn't so reliable as a primary damage source), you'll want to level up some magic. Time to pick one of the schools and get to it. Now, time to find a mob to kill given that you'll get 6 times the skillup per cast than you would against a player. You'll need a camp of mobs that are weak to your chosen school, and ideally you'd love to find one that will also curb your gold loss while doing so (or maybe even make a profit to whatever slight degree). Well, good luck. Most likely you'll be hemorrhaging gold at this point. Better yet, when you go out and find a decent location to focus your skills, you're going to be blasting through your mana in a hurry and taking more damage than you normally would even while meleeing. This will make you an easy and high-value target to any fellow Darkfall player. Sure you'll have your melee and archery skills to fall back on, but you'll be hard pressed to negate the disadvantage of low mana, converted stamina (for health) and the surprise of an attacker should someone decide to take you out. "But you can group!" Yup, you sure can. You'll cut your productivity (both in rate of skillups and income)drastically in exchange for safety, and that's not even mentioning the dependency on others to make progress. At that point, you're probably just as well to join the masses and bloodwall.
Now your skillups will be cut by a full 1/6th, but at least it'll be consistent. How many hours/days/weeks are you going to keep that up with your quickly dissolving reserves of gold from your initial grind? On top of that, your actual damage spells are going to suffer given that you'll likely rely on debuffs at a bloodwall, given that killing your targets is a bit counter-productive to speedy skillups.
Ugh, I mean I could go on, but if by now the point isn't clear, then I'm not sure what to say. It's a godawful amount of shitty work to really get into the area you choose in Darkfall unless your cup of tea happens to be melee/archery exclusively, but some of us don't enjoy being pigeon-holed into such a role just by the nature of the game. I wouldn't even mind except for the aforementioned issues. Worse still is that I'm reading lately that Aventurine is finally taking a solid stand against macros? I mean, way to really hammer the nail firmly into the coffin for new players. So you let exploiters, botters, and macroers run rampant for a year, gain utterly massive advantages for doing so, then essentially punish the new players desperately clinging to some hope that they'll catch up by cutting off one of their primary means to do so when it's been accepted as "the norm" for such a long time?
Yeah, I see why the vets get so bent out of shape at anyone speaking an ill word towards their game and their "achievements". I'd be damn protective too if I'd gone through the bullshit to get what they have. Doesn't make it right, and doesn't make it attractive for anyone but those at the top~
To wrap up: noone expects or wants to be #1 on a 7-day trial. I don't think anyone has ever claimed a need to be competitive on day 1. However, it's extremely easy to see at an early point the behemoth of a grind ahead if you really want to compete with anything but melee and archery. Even then, if you do so choose to focus on those things, you'll need the stats to back it up, which will involve its own grind - one of exclusive melee for a very long time, or gathering for slightly less time but all the boredom of watching paint dry - something I, personally, won't pay $15/mo to anyone for the privilege.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
I even remember DAoC and how you could powerlevel a character to 50 in less than a week, even just a couple days. You know a company knows how to do PvP when they let you get max level that quickly. That's a real PvP game. Too bad aventurine couldn't learn from that. Every time I see someone say "OMG ITS AN MMORPG WUT DO U XPECT U HAVE TO ADVANCE UR CHAR?? 3 MONTH GRIND ZOOMG" I laugh and remember DAoC and how mythic knew how to do PvP.
If I could skill up my character that fast in Darkfall, I would have quite after a few days. I know I wouldn't have been alone.
"You know a company knows how to do PvP when they let you get max level that quickly." This sentence speaks volumes about the type of gamer you are, and the expectations that you have. What you're asking for would result in a game that is not even an mmorpg at all.
This is getting a little on the redundant side, wouldn't you say?
It's really not a fair comparison because DAoC was a game that focused on PvP. Darkfall focuses on PvE.
It's really not a fair comparison because DAoC was a game that focused on PvP. Darkfall focuses on PvE.
Is there anything else you'd like to add to the Discussion on this forum? That would be really awesome man. It seems you're only here to constantly repeat the same incorrect BS over and over again, in an attempt to rile people up.
If you like this game as you've stated a few times, then one would think you'd have more to say about it than some regurgitated nonsense from some other member's tired and old thread.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
As far as I can tell, if you get one weapon mastery up to a decent level, archery up and some magic, you can defend yourself if you play well. This can be accomplished in a month, which is about the same amount of time it would take a newbie in WoW to have a chance to kill a vet in WoW.
Yeah, I try and tell myself this when I'm PVE exhausted. The truth is I know it's not true and it hurts when I look in the mirror before I force myself to re-attach myself to my computer while watching TV..
It's really not a fair comparison because DAoC was a game that focused on PvP. Darkfall focuses on PvE.
Yet, in another thread you compare DF to WAR.
Claiming that Warhammer (a game that is almost entirely PvE oriented with the exception of instanced RvR scenarios and spread out RvR "Lakes") is more PvP oriented than Darkfall.
Warhammer's endgame is PvE, it was one of the reasons the game has faired so poorly and has been a source of many complaints ever since launch.
Fair comparisons indeed, pot meet kettle.
PS: Darkfall does not focus on PVE in any way, you really need to drop that, you're not fooling anyone regardless of how many times you try and repeat it in the hope that someone will agree. Nobody ever does though, I wonder why that is?
It's really not a fair comparison because DAoC was a game that focused on PvP. Darkfall focuses on PvE.
Is there anything else you'd like to add to the Discussion on this forum? That would be really awesome man. It seems you're only here to constantly repeat the same incorrect BS over and over again, in an attempt to rile people up.
If you like this game as you've stated a few times, then one would think you'd have more to say about it than some regurgitated nonsense from some other member's tired and old thread.
I'm simply pointing out that if the game was based on PvP like DAoC then there would be little to no grind. On the contrary Darkfall has a huge PvE grind. At least in warhammer you could grind in PvP. I don't think I would have to explain it in depth this much if people like you would stop resisting the truth.
Comments
I don't quite understand why you think I am whining. I've never whined about the grind in darkfall only been blunt with the truth. I don't lie to players who are thinking about purchasing the game like most of the people on here who almost seem to be employees of aventurine they are so adamantly defending them.
I do however understand why you would call it trolling. It's hard to dispute the truth so use the default argument of "hes a troll."
Your "truth" has been disputed repeatedly. However, when you continue to chant the same mantra regardless, there's simply no point in disputing it again.
It makes it rather obvious that you're not looking for a solution, you're just posting the same thing because you feel the need to interject your whine into every thread, in an attempt to troll.
Pft... EVE has been dying for seven years now, and for pretty much the same reasons
It's too hard!
It's not fair!
You can never catch up!
Oh noes, it's possible to actually lose a fight!!!!111
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Everyone in EVE does have a shot against everyone else. A 3 month and a 3 year player aren't on a level footing when it comes to versatility, but it's very far from unkown for 3 year old players to lose ships to 3 monthers. If a player in a T1 cruiser like an T1 Autocannon-fitted Rupture catches a guy in a sniper-fitted battleship, the battleship is going to die in a fire even if it's fully Tech2/Faction fit, and piloted by an all level 5 skills 7 year veteran.
I dont know if that scenario could translate to Darkfall. I guess the equivalent would be something like a knife fighter catching a pikeman in a dark alleyway and getting inside his swing. But swapping a ship in EVE essentially means leaving the fight and getting home. Swapping a weapon in Darkfall is likely going to be much quicker.
3 monthers in Darkfall do have a shot against vets. What the OP is talking about is 3 dayers, not 3 monthers.
The same argument applies, except that the 3-dayers in EVE would have a more limited range of possible targets. There's a fairly famous vid on youtube of 2 guys making 1-day alts, putting them into Rifters (T1 frigates) and going on a killing spree. Player skill and a wllingness to accept trivial losses allow very low skill characters to be used with considerable success.
I sense the Eve fanboi is strong with this one.
Are we talking about experienced vets making alts and teaming up against 3 year old vets, or teaming up against newbies? 2 experienced 3 day old player alts in Darkfall can team up and kill other 3 day old players, or even 2 week players, but not a 1 year player.
The OP was talking about a newbie that barely knows how to switch weapons being able to defend himself in Darkfall against a vet. If a one year vet decides to kill a 3 day old player that's mining some asteroid in Eve, would the newbie have a chance?
Besides, Darkfall is more hardcore than Eve. There is no "safe sector" to gain skils in. You can offline train up skills in Eve but not in Darkfall (unless you macro and want to risk getting banned). Nobody is saying Darkfall isn't hardcore.
But the point I'm trying to make is that gaining skills in Eve is meaningful (I'm assuming, unless it really sucks that much), otherwise there's little incentive to do it. The same applies with Darkfall and if they made everyone have "a chance" against everyone else tomorrow, they would inevitably piss off the vets.
Unless I'm wrong about Eve. Would 3 year old players mind if 3 day old players in Eve could defend themselves against them if a 3 year old decided to gank them?
I don't quite understand why you think I am whining. I've never whined about the grind in darkfall only been blunt with the truth. I don't lie to players who are thinking about purchasing the game like most of the people on here who almost seem to be employees of aventurine they are so adamantly defending them.
I do however understand why you would call it trolling. It's hard to dispute the truth so use the default argument of "hes a troll."
Your "truth" has been disputed repeatedly. However, when you continue to chant the same mantra regardless, there's simply no point in disputing it again.
It makes it rather obvious that you're not looking for a solution, you're just posting the same thing because you feel the need to interject your whine into every thread, in an attempt to troll.
I want to make sure people who are considering the game know what to expect, instead of listening to a sales pitch. I laugh every time someone mentions that darkfall isn't what they expected or posts on the forums saying "I thought it was going to be good" etc.. because the only information they got was from fanatics who suck on aventurines nuts at every given chance.
yeah, you're wrong. Most 3 year old players that I know of would cheer the 3 day guy to the skies. Because it is possible, given player knowledge and player skills. If there's one thing older players like to see it's a new guy with the brass nuts to ignore all the whining and naysayers, and get out there and do it. Because it's possible - not easy, but possible.
Is that different from Darkfall? I kinda sorta maybe suspect and hope it isn't.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Sales pitch, lol. Can't you do better than that?
I've recently noticed many threads/posts that say the opposite of what you're claiming. New players are often surprised how good the game actually is in comparison to some of the negative opinions posted around here.
P.S. I am sure there are many grateful forum goers with slightly fatter wallets that have no one to thank but you and your helpful warning flag. Look at them all, they're lining up right now.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Sales pitch, lol. Can't you do better than that?
I've recently noticed many threads/posts that say the opposite of what you're claiming. New players are often surprised how good the game actually is in comparison to some of the negative opinions posted around here.
P.S. I am sure there are many grateful forum goers with slightly fatter wallets that have no one to thank but you and your helpful warning flag. Look at them all, they're lining up right now.
I think you're confused. I'm not trying to deter people from trying to buy the game, I'm making sure that anyone who loves PvE gives this game a chance. Most people think darkfall is hardcore PvP. We all know its really not, it simply has open-world PvP which many games already have. I think ive mentioned this before but you can be competitive in PvP faster in WoW than you can in this game.
yeah, you're wrong. Most 3 year old players that I know of would cheer the 3 day guy to the skies. Because it is possible, given player knowledge and player skills. If there's one thing older players like to see it's a new guy with the brass nuts to ignore all the whining and naysayers, and get out there and do it. Because it's possible - not easy, but possible.
Is that different from Darkfall? I kinda sorta maybe suspect and hope it isn't.
If a 1 year old player decides to gank a 3 day old player, the 3 day old player will lose. Guaranteed.
I'm confused though- why do people bother putting themselves in "the egg timer" in Eve for 3 months (I even read recently of a guy planning on doing it for a full year) if it's only skills that matter in PVP?
I don't quite understand why you think I am whining. I've never whined about the grind in darkfall only been blunt with the truth. I don't lie to players who are thinking about purchasing the game like most of the people on here who almost seem to be employees of aventurine they are so adamantly defending them.
I do however understand why you would call it trolling. It's hard to dispute the truth so use the default argument of "hes a troll."
Your "truth" has been disputed repeatedly. However, when you continue to chant the same mantra regardless, there's simply no point in disputing it again.
It makes it rather obvious that you're not looking for a solution, you're just posting the same thing because you feel the need to interject your whine into every thread, in an attempt to troll.
I want to make sure people who are considering the game know what to expect, instead of listening to a sales pitch. I laugh every time someone mentions that darkfall isn't what they expected or posts on the forums saying "I thought it was going to be good" etc.. because the only information they got was from fanatics who suck on aventurines nuts at every given chance.
I guarantee that no "fanatic" would ever say anything that would lead anyone to believe "Darkfall would be [a game] that relied on twitch based skills as much as player progression, one that allowed you to jump right into the action and defend yourself from or attack any interlopers who crossed you."
I don't know what kind of "advertising" you think you're combating, but from what I read before I started the game, it's actually not as rough as most people say it is.
If you consider people saying they "think the game is good" is a "sales pitch", then obviously you just really don't like the game. I love the game. Am I advertising by saying that, or "sucking AV's nuts"?
OP I 100% agree with everything you said. So do the other 3 people who joined with me months ago and all quit due to the grind...
But you are barking up the wrong tree here on these forums. All you will get are replies from people like Wharg0ul and Agricola who think the game is perfect the way it is and do not agree that the grind is ridiculous. You will never get them to budge one inch from that point of view.
Seeing as how Aventurine seems to want only these types of players, I don't think we will see anything improve anytime soon. It will happen eventually though... they will only accept the currently horrible player retention rate for so long.
I don't quite understand why you think I am whining. I've never whined about the grind in darkfall only been blunt with the truth. I don't lie to players who are thinking about purchasing the game like most of the people on here who almost seem to be employees of aventurine they are so adamantly defending them.
I do however understand why you would call it trolling. It's hard to dispute the truth so use the default argument of "hes a troll."
Your "truth" has been disputed repeatedly. However, when you continue to chant the same mantra regardless, there's simply no point in disputing it again.
It makes it rather obvious that you're not looking for a solution, you're just posting the same thing because you feel the need to interject your whine into every thread, in an attempt to troll.
I want to make sure people who are considering the game know what to expect, instead of listening to a sales pitch. I laugh every time someone mentions that darkfall isn't what they expected or posts on the forums saying "I thought it was going to be good" etc.. because the only information they got was from fanatics who suck on aventurines nuts at every given chance.
I guarantee that no "fanatic" would ever say anything that would lead anyone to believe "Darkfall would be [a game] that relied on twitch based skills as much as player progression, one that allowed you to jump right into the action and defend yourself from or attack any interlopers who crossed you."
I don't know what kind of "advertising" you think you're combating, but from what I read before I started the game, it's actually not as rough as most people say it is.
If you consider people saying they "think the game is good" is a "sales pitch", then obviously you just really don't like the game. I love the game. Am I advertising by saying that, or "sucking AV's nuts"?
Most players come into the game thinking they can PvP right away. Of course we all know this doesn't work and there is a huge grind before you are able to PvP with a respectable chance of winning. 2 people i knew also joined the game thinking they could PvP without the huge grind because they were mislead. They quit the game shortly after realizing how many mobs they needed to kill. There is a widespread lie being thrown around that there isn't a huge grind in this game.
QFT
There is an absolutely massive grind in Darkfall and people deserve to know that fact before they start.
I don't quite understand why you think I am whining. I've never whined about the grind in darkfall only been blunt with the truth. I don't lie to players who are thinking about purchasing the game like most of the people on here who almost seem to be employees of aventurine they are so adamantly defending them.
I do however understand why you would call it trolling. It's hard to dispute the truth so use the default argument of "hes a troll."
Your "truth" has been disputed repeatedly. However, when you continue to chant the same mantra regardless, there's simply no point in disputing it again.
It makes it rather obvious that you're not looking for a solution, you're just posting the same thing because you feel the need to interject your whine into every thread, in an attempt to troll.
I want to make sure people who are considering the game know what to expect, instead of listening to a sales pitch. I laugh every time someone mentions that darkfall isn't what they expected or posts on the forums saying "I thought it was going to be good" etc.. because the only information they got was from fanatics who suck on aventurines nuts at every given chance.
I guarantee that no "fanatic" would ever say anything that would lead anyone to believe "Darkfall would be [a game] that relied on twitch based skills as much as player progression, one that allowed you to jump right into the action and defend yourself from or attack any interlopers who crossed you."
I don't know what kind of "advertising" you think you're combating, but from what I read before I started the game, it's actually not as rough as most people say it is.
If you consider people saying they "think the game is good" is a "sales pitch", then obviously you just really don't like the game. I love the game. Am I advertising by saying that, or "sucking AV's nuts"?
Most players come into the game thinking they can PvP right away. Of course we all know this doesn't work and there is a huge grind before you are able to PvP with a respectable chance of winning. 2 people i knew also joined the game thinking they could PvP without the huge grind because they were mislead. They quit the game shortly after realizing how many mobs they needed to kill. There is a widespread lie being thrown around that there isn't a huge grind in this game.
Who exactly is misleading them? Can you link me to one thread by someone that plays Darkfall that says you can start the game and right off the bat have a chance in PVP? I never read that everywhere. Does AV say that on their website anywhere?
What I have read is the opposite, and people saying you'll never have a chance against vets in PVP starting this late, which also isn't true. As far as I can tell, if you get one weapon mastery up to a decent level, archery up and some magic, you can defend yourself if you play well. This can be accomplished in a month, which is about the same amount of time it would take a newbie in WoW to have a chance to kill a vet in WoW.
If someone doesn't read up on the game and just assumes that you can kill vets right from the gate, who's fault is that?
I don't think anyone playing Darkfall is trying to mislead people into buying the game by saying there isn't an initial grind. What would be the point? Those people would just quit and then badmouth the game.
Sales pitch, lol. Can't you do better than that?
I've recently noticed many threads/posts that say the opposite of what you're claiming. New players are often surprised how good the game actually is in comparison to some of the negative opinions posted around here.
P.S. I am sure there are many grateful forum goers with slightly fatter wallets that have no one to thank but you and your helpful warning flag. Look at them all, they're lining up right now.
I think you're confused. I'm not trying to deter people from trying to buy the game, I'm making sure that anyone who loves PvE gives this game a chance. Most people think darkfall is hardcore PvP. We all know its really not, it simply has open-world PvP which many games already have. I think ive mentioned this before but you can be competitive in PvP faster in WoW than you can in this game.
Only because of twinking.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
I even remember DAoC and how you could powerlevel a character to 50 in less than a week, even just a couple days. You know a company knows how to do PvP when they let you get max level that quickly. That's a real PvP game. Too bad aventurine couldn't learn from that. Every time I see someone say "OMG ITS AN MMORPG WUT DO U XPECT U HAVE TO ADVANCE UR CHAR?? 3 MONTH GRIND ZOOMG" I laugh and remember DAoC and how mythic knew how to do PvP.
The point is that a PvP-centric game should be about the PvP. A grind is to be expected in any MMORPG, but it only serves as an annoyance and a roadblock in a PvP title. The ridiculous grind in Darkfall basically makes the barrier for entry much too high for any casual gamers and even for most hardcore PvPers who just really don't enjoy grinding (like myself)...
If a player can reach max level in UO, AC, SWG, WOW, etc. and begin competing with veterans in a few months time without completely grinding their asses off, the same should DEFINITELY be possible in a game that is supposed to be entirely focused on PvP.
Have fun in DAoC then or Warhammer, I hear they're both full of happy PvPers glad they're playing a game run by a company that knows what it's doing.
Incase you didn't know I was being sarcastic!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
If I could skill up my character that fast in Darkfall, I would have quite after a few days. I know I wouldn't have been alone.
"You know a company knows how to do PvP when they let you get max level that quickly." This sentence speaks volumes about the type of gamer you are, and the expectations that you have. What you're asking for would result in a game that is not even an mmorpg at all.
This is getting a little on the redundant side, wouldn't you say?
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Highlighted area, specifically...
I really don't want to get back into the Darkfall discussion, but oh well. I'm pretty sure you just answered your own initial question. One month is a reasonable time-frame for anyone to expect some base level of participation in such a "PVP-based game". As you've just informed everyone, that is possible within a month. Specifically, a player will be all but forced to level a melee mastery and archery due to the extremely high cost for a new player to level magic out of the gate. It's the only truly sensible route to take, given that during the process of leveling those skills, a player will inevitably generate some decent gold, and likely gather a fair number of reagents. If they also find time to gather, all the better as they'll likely be in a position to craft eventually as well. That's not to mention the fact that a player who focused purely on magic would have utter garbage health and stamina without a massive investment of time into gathering (mining and logging).
That said, to accomplish such a thing within a month would and will require a very substantial time investment. I'm not just talking 2-3 hours each day, but more in line with 8+ for that initial month. Those 8 don't necessarily need to be entirely active - clicking a node and afk'ing for 10 minutes while it's gathered seems to be the norm, and why we likely hear so much from the likes of Agricola and Wharg0ul.
Now, I don't know about everyone who plays Darkfall, but I'm pretty sure that melee and archery aren't the only skills they intend to use. I mean, conversions play a huge role in a player's success in PVP. Of course, as a buddy of mine I started with put it, "get to Witches Brew and you finally have a real heal!" So, now you'll need to make sure your lesser magic is of decent level (don't remember the specifics, and this is relatively quick/easy), you'll need greater magic to 50? I believe, as well as 75 Witchcraft, which is no easy feat no matter who you ask... that is unless they played during the era of bugged mobs that allowed you to debuff them for hours at a time for maximum skillups and no misses.
So you've managed your 2H and archery mastery, and you've got witches brew, and your conversions are respectably moving along. Are you still in that "one month" time frame? My guess is no, short of some serious macro and bloodwall loving. If you've really managed your time well, you sleep while your toon swims into a wall somewhere out of sight, and if you're extra productive, you're macro'ing some manner of magic then as well. But wait....
IMHO, melee kind of sucks in this game. So if you're not a fan of sprint-jousting someone to death with your 2H of choice (archery isn't so reliable as a primary damage source), you'll want to level up some magic. Time to pick one of the schools and get to it. Now, time to find a mob to kill given that you'll get 6 times the skillup per cast than you would against a player. You'll need a camp of mobs that are weak to your chosen school, and ideally you'd love to find one that will also curb your gold loss while doing so (or maybe even make a profit to whatever slight degree). Well, good luck. Most likely you'll be hemorrhaging gold at this point. Better yet, when you go out and find a decent location to focus your skills, you're going to be blasting through your mana in a hurry and taking more damage than you normally would even while meleeing. This will make you an easy and high-value target to any fellow Darkfall player. Sure you'll have your melee and archery skills to fall back on, but you'll be hard pressed to negate the disadvantage of low mana, converted stamina (for health) and the surprise of an attacker should someone decide to take you out. "But you can group!" Yup, you sure can. You'll cut your productivity (both in rate of skillups and income) drastically in exchange for safety, and that's not even mentioning the dependency on others to make progress. At that point, you're probably just as well to join the masses and bloodwall.
Now your skillups will be cut by a full 1/6th, but at least it'll be consistent. How many hours/days/weeks are you going to keep that up with your quickly dissolving reserves of gold from your initial grind? On top of that, your actual damage spells are going to suffer given that you'll likely rely on debuffs at a bloodwall, given that killing your targets is a bit counter-productive to speedy skillups.
Ugh, I mean I could go on, but if by now the point isn't clear, then I'm not sure what to say. It's a godawful amount of shitty work to really get into the area you choose in Darkfall unless your cup of tea happens to be melee/archery exclusively, but some of us don't enjoy being pigeon-holed into such a role just by the nature of the game. I wouldn't even mind except for the aforementioned issues. Worse still is that I'm reading lately that Aventurine is finally taking a solid stand against macros? I mean, way to really hammer the nail firmly into the coffin for new players. So you let exploiters, botters, and macroers run rampant for a year, gain utterly massive advantages for doing so, then essentially punish the new players desperately clinging to some hope that they'll catch up by cutting off one of their primary means to do so when it's been accepted as "the norm" for such a long time?
Yeah, I see why the vets get so bent out of shape at anyone speaking an ill word towards their game and their "achievements". I'd be damn protective too if I'd gone through the bullshit to get what they have. Doesn't make it right, and doesn't make it attractive for anyone but those at the top~
To wrap up: noone expects or wants to be #1 on a 7-day trial. I don't think anyone has ever claimed a need to be competitive on day 1. However, it's extremely easy to see at an early point the behemoth of a grind ahead if you really want to compete with anything but melee and archery. Even then, if you do so choose to focus on those things, you'll need the stats to back it up, which will involve its own grind - one of exclusive melee for a very long time, or gathering for slightly less time but all the boredom of watching paint dry - something I, personally, won't pay $15/mo to anyone for the privilege.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
If I could skill up my character that fast in Darkfall, I would have quite after a few days. I know I wouldn't have been alone.
"You know a company knows how to do PvP when they let you get max level that quickly." This sentence speaks volumes about the type of gamer you are, and the expectations that you have. What you're asking for would result in a game that is not even an mmorpg at all.
This is getting a little on the redundant side, wouldn't you say?
It's really not a fair comparison because DAoC was a game that focused on PvP. Darkfall focuses on PvE.
Is there anything else you'd like to add to the Discussion on this forum? That would be really awesome man. It seems you're only here to constantly repeat the same incorrect BS over and over again, in an attempt to rile people up.
If you like this game as you've stated a few times, then one would think you'd have more to say about it than some regurgitated nonsense from some other member's tired and old thread.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
You did a very good job of explaining pretty much every point regarding PvP. I read the whole post and must say well done, you get the picture.
As far as I can tell, if you get one weapon mastery up to a decent level, archery up and some magic, you can defend yourself if you play well. This can be accomplished in a month, which is about the same amount of time it would take a newbie in WoW to have a chance to kill a vet in WoW.
Yeah, I try and tell myself this when I'm PVE exhausted. The truth is I know it's not true and it hurts when I look in the mirror before I force myself to re-attach myself to my computer while watching TV..
Yet, in another thread you compare DF to WAR.
Claiming that Warhammer (a game that is almost entirely PvE oriented with the exception of instanced RvR scenarios and spread out RvR "Lakes") is more PvP oriented than Darkfall.
Warhammer's endgame is PvE, it was one of the reasons the game has faired so poorly and has been a source of many complaints ever since launch.
Fair comparisons indeed, pot meet kettle.
PS: Darkfall does not focus on PVE in any way, you really need to drop that, you're not fooling anyone regardless of how many times you try and repeat it in the hope that someone will agree. Nobody ever does though, I wonder why that is?
Is there anything else you'd like to add to the Discussion on this forum? That would be really awesome man. It seems you're only here to constantly repeat the same incorrect BS over and over again, in an attempt to rile people up.
If you like this game as you've stated a few times, then one would think you'd have more to say about it than some regurgitated nonsense from some other member's tired and old thread.
I'm simply pointing out that if the game was based on PvP like DAoC then there would be little to no grind. On the contrary Darkfall has a huge PvE grind. At least in warhammer you could grind in PvP. I don't think I would have to explain it in depth this much if people like you would stop resisting the truth.