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Why do you think the latest crop of games is failing?
elocke
Member UncommonPosts: 4,335
I tried to think of all the reasons that the recent crop of games have sorely disappointed me and have put them in this poll. Feel free to choose and discuss your reasoning.
I ask this poll in the effort to see where my mmorpg.com forum fellows are on this issue. Maybe give us a place to vent constructively, why we feel games are failing on a personal level for each of us.
Comments
I will dare to say that it had something to do with the publisher/developer relationship, this games are turning into a money making, publishers doesnt care about the creativity, developers, and gamers in the long haul, they want to make lots of money get their cut, and most importantly respond well to the investors and shareholders...
yes u hear right, the fault is from investors and shareholders...
Is also their fault that the unemployment is high u know....
The answer is, obviously, all of the above.
And more.
Missed an option imo, Greed.
F2P/P2P excellent thread.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/282517/F2P-An-Engineers-perspective.html
Some of the options are a little redundant, such as "over-hype" and "failure to deliver what is promised", and lacks some valid options as well, such as simply not being an enjoyable game.
In my opinion, and this is for all games and not just MMOs, there is not enough emphasis on the fundamentals and put far too much on things like graphics.
They're forgetting the most important concern: Fun.
A lot of the newer games coming out simply aren't enjoyable enough. And yes, Fun is a highly subjective term. What is fun for me isn't the same as what's fun for you, or the other person. That said, there are general tastes of what is fun and what is not between groups of people, where some of those groups of gamers are larger than others. That said, many MMOs are simply not very fun, or alternatively, they do not stay fun for very long.
A growing trend in the gaming industry seems to be over focusing on production value rather than the core gameplay itself. Developers spend so much effort on making a high end graphics game with high end effects, sound, etc, yet it's all wasted on lackluster gameplay, or a sheer lack of sufficient content.
One thing I notice is that publishers no longer care about players, or the game as a whole, they only care about getting money, investors care about getting more, so do the stockholders...
I did not post a vote, as I wholly agree with the post above mine. The fault lies with the investors and publishers. They place unrealistic goals on top of an already over-worked development team, with no other goal in mind than to release as soon as possible, so they can attempt to make money as soon as possible. They don't give a crap about the quality of their product, they just want money. That's all it's about these days.
Back in the day, when MMORPGs were a fresh, relatively new idea, and the market wasn't saturated in every genre, it was difficult to shop around for investors and publishers, because it was understood that the development cycle of an MMORPG could be as long as four years before you see any type of returns on investments. In some cases, it took even longer than that!
But now days, nobody wants to wait four+ years for a return on their investment. Every get-rich-quick greedy bastard out there sees all the successful MMOs, and just wants a piece of the action. So instead of development companies being able to produce quality games, they are forced to produce mediocre-at-best products that fall far short of the bar.
But this is a free-market, capitalist society. Money makes our world go 'round. MMORPG development is no longer treated as some what of an art form (and thats really what they are, immense colaboration projects built by many talented artists of one form or another), but rather, they are treated as potential cash-cows that should be milked until death.
True mages don't die. They strategically miscalculate.
Most games are failing, because game companies are no longer passionate about making games. They simply want to make a product to sell and then monetize the shit out of it.
As long as people rush to buy lifetime subscriptions, cash shop content, etc it will continue.
Unfortunately, publishers have always been this way. They only lend out money to developers with the express intent to get more paid back to them.
The trend today however, is that publisher are exercising significantly more influence and restriction over developers under contract to them, with the intent of squeezing even more profit out of them.
Why should they be failing?
They are doing quite fine, imo.
Lifetime subscriptions really should ring bells on peoples heads, but in some they dont... omg... lifetime sub, after you pay it... they run away... and they leave you behind lol...
even some games with lifetime sub have a big message in one corner that say,
Lifetime sub will be in service for the time the game is online... if one day they close the game, BOOM bye bye lifetime...
MMO's initially (like any commercial product initially, I guess) were made by devs who had an idea/vision for a great game. Their business model was to make money BY making what they thought would be a great game.
Now that making big money with MMO's has been established the investors move in. Devs no longer make the games they think will be great. They're effectively employees of the publisher. With investors calling the shots the dynamic isn't to make money BY making a great game, its JUST to make money. The quality of the game is completely irrelevant as long as the investors make their profit.
Heavy reliance on established IP's, marketing overhype and deals of of questionable value all geared to drive box sales provide the profit as long as not too much is spent on dev. (I'm looking at you Cryptic), then if the game does happen to actually manage to generate subscriptions, its all gravy. If not. Oh well.
1) i dont think IP based MMOs really work well, there are to many constraints. Exception being when the IP was made by the individual developer, like Blizzard and WoW. Trying to go for an original IP is usually the best bet imo, although it is more difficult.
2) Communication, communication, communication. Talk to the player base and be honest with them. JGE is faling this big time right now, STO botched this with their promotion thing.
3) This is just my opinion, I like to play a game where i feel like im in an actual game world. A collection of losely connected if at all, areas, like WAR and STO, just dosnt do it for me.
4) there is still a bit to much stigma associated with the F2P model and microtransactions, i dont think its a completely viable alternative in the west yet. Selling cosmetic things like funny hats and services like transfers and name changes, imo are ok.
5) Clearly define your game, maybe not outright, but with features and vision for the game, what you hope. Dont say we want to appeal to everyone, hardcore and casual, fans of the ip and new comers alike because that will casuse tons of people to be attracted to the game, but most wont like it and give you a massive turn over rate and hate.
just a few things that poped into my head.
MMORPGs lately seem rushed to market, failing to deliver on the hype thats been generated around them. So many WoW clones have came along and failed, Its like none of them learned from WoW that the fundamental success factors are polish, having something for everyone and delivering on the features. Instead, we see games (not just the WoW clones) that are 60-80% ready for release and to publisher's that seems to be the magic number to push it out and start grabbing for $$.
There's a number of reasons, but you failed to put in the one I think is most common: management insists on pushing it out the door before it's actually finished.
Games are failing because of stupid, needless, beating the dead horse, threads such as this one.
??? Lets say, released in a more respectable state... not finished, as mmos are never finished... new content better be added lol...
So my thread is the cause of all the "bad" games in the recent years? Troll elsewhere please.
Anyway, you all bring up valid points. Only reason I didn't put in any Greed/Corporation choice is because that is all we are hearing about lately. The business side. Which is probably the whole problem anyway, but I wanted to bring it back to the realm of what the player wants in an MMORPG.
Obviously, it can be all of the above. But honestly, after playing Warhammer Online, AoC, and STO and just being completely dissappointed in every way imaginable, since they did not deliver what I thought they were going to. Vast open worlds set in those awesome IPs. I have to wonder what were they thinking? I also have to wonder what dictionary they use since their idea of exploration and trophies on a character, or being thanked for killing those 10 bears you just passed instead of being sent back to kill them(Warhammer promise that wasn't how they said it was), etc. are not what I expected in any remote way.
These developers make the games to make a living. Make a profit. That is fine. But any argument about greed tends to go by the wayside when I look at quality games like Eve, WoW, LOTRO, FFXI and "fill in your quality game of choice". Why do some developers "get it" and some don't?
Free mmo's make millions every year even a bad very bad mmo will make money some players will willingly buy cash shop in hopes this new game will improve it wont becouse improve means spend money when its cheaper to mass out a new mmo rejen the hype get more players in to spend cash shop then let it fail and start over .
this method has been proven to generate funds its cheap its fast and its ez
the new ways of mmo's will most likely never change it will forever more be fail after fail and there will forever be players willing to spend money on new games in the hopes" this will be the one " . sad but true
if there using cartoons in place of real game screenies the games most likely a fail
if there using a sexy scantly clad women as i icon the games most likely a fail
if there using a trailer that looks to good to be true it most likely is
if the game was released post 2008 the games most likely a fail
have fun happy gaming imma go play table top checkers and watch some TV my hopes of a new MMO worth playing coming out any time soon is void
It's probably a combination of factors. However, I do think the market is oversaturated with mmos.
because your just a mmo druggie trying to chase that original high instead of just finding what is right for you atm and enjoying it ,instead complaining and crying foul on those that invest their money resources and time into trying to please you oh fickle consumer
disclaimer: this is a general statement not aimed at any one individual in particular but at consumers as a whole so please mmorpg.com dont ban me!
...I still can't see why they are supposed to be a fail.
AoC, WaR, Aion - all have somewhere +100k subs.
How does this can not be considered as success?
I think people use the term fail when a product does not live up to their expectations. My definition of failure is if the game is actually pulled off the air, such as Tabula Rasa.
you also need to consider that the culture change.... a few years back when i was in highschool, tons of peeps used to visit ebgames, and gamestop and such... but now I see the new generation of school students in their usual packs with their uniforms in the street, mocking and having fun of the one or two looking to get into gamestop...
something is going on... or the next generation doesnt like games, or they simply dont like the crap games... dunno which one to finger point...
and yeah all money still stands...
The problem is not your choices,the problem is that they meet several of your choices.The developers i would not say are totally incompetent,because i am sure they know how to do their work,the problem is they won't do it.I am sure every single developer has a time line to meet,to get their game out,and it is all about money,not since Smed's EQ1 has a game been made from the heart,because the person believes in it.That is not to say EQ1 is the greatest,it fails in a lot of respects,i think that is from lack of innovation,lack of thought .
You don't believe their is strict time lines?Do some homework on Electronic Arts,they have been sued for mistreating employees,massive working hours like 12-16 hour days 7 days a week ect ect.These businesses realize that everyday the game is not out making money,that could be millions of dollars.You think if some animator tells the floor boss he needs another 2 days to really make the animations great he is going to get it?no way.
Even if the developer has some heart felt interest in the game ,such as Schilling and his game,there will still be the cost factor,they are not going to over spend what they project to be their profit margin.This means several aspects of making a better game will be left out.
Look no further than Square Enix,people have left them with ideas for their next game,things that are common throughout the community,like player housing,well their stance is they like it but not right now,so you can see,it is all about the money,you will never get that great game,that has everything.Do they have the engine or know how?you bet ya,do they have the manpower and money?no problems there,they just refuse to cut into their profit margin to do it.
So the trend continues,developers will sit in their board meetings and decide on the minimal product they can get away with that will still sell.They will decide what to keep and what to trash and what might be doable for expansions.Wat makes it even worse is small developers that have to borrow money.These guys you know are under the gun to get that product out fast,so quality is going to suffer big time,they cannot afford to have that interest/debt build up.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Blizzard is huge. Strike that, MASSIVE. They're making billions off of WoW every year, between purchase price, subscription costs, licensing, it's an epic money maker.
But that side, Blizzard has always, and I mean ALWAYS paid more attention to the quality of their games than to making a profit. I've heard many arguments that WoW is as popular as it is because of marketing, etc. I wholly disagree with such statements. WoW is a popular as it is because Blizzard is known, world-wide, for making quality games, and listening to their players. And on top of that, they never seem to abandon a game, either.
Take Diablo II for example. Diablo II was released in 2000, ten years ago! It's not an MMO, it's ten years old, and Blizzard is STILL supporting the product, and it's still hugely popular. The same goes for StarCraft. They're still supporting it, and it still has a huge player base.
In addition to all of this, let's take a look at Diablo III. Diablo III wen't into development in 2001, just one year after Diablo II was released. And here we are, nine years later, and their still working on it. Why? It certainly isn't money issues, that's for damn sure. The reason is simple: Blizzard has always maintained that they will never release a game that is not up to their standards, which are pretty damn high.
In my opinion, other developers, and especially publishers, should be taking a LOT of notes from Blizzard in regards to game development. If you just take the time necessary to make the game great, it WILL BE SUCCESSFUL.
I'd like to point out here that Blizzard has, for more than 15 years, consistently made quality titles that have met and exceeded the expectations of the players.
Yes, this post contains a lot of praise for Blizzard. But I'm not a "fanboy", I promise you. I could care less about the company, it's their products that I am hailing. Blizzard is one of very, very few developers that still "gets it". Hopefully, they'll continue to produce quality titles for years to come.
And even more hopefully, other developers and publishers will take a real long hard look at what Blizzard is doing right, instead of trying to copy their ideas and slap their own name on it.
It isn't because of their games' success that Blizzard pays such attention to detail.
Their games are a success because they pay so much attention to detail.
True mages don't die. They strategically miscalculate.