Tell me about it. It's clueless people like that who support lazy, greedy and incompetent developers alike, even going as far as to criticise those who show some scepticism as if they're terrified you'll spoil everything by injecting a dose of reality.
Unfortunately this attitude is NOT constructive. Much as they wish to believe otherwise, there are lots of people out there looking to con you out of money, whether it's through televangelism or shoddy games. These people rely on the gullible and the eternally optimistic to send them cash.
I'm not saying MO is a scam, but paying SV money for a product they've not yet proven they can deliver gives entirely the wrong impression. I bet I could start an MMO right now with no skills whatsoever, as long as I release some stock artwork and promise to make the best game ever, some people are bound to send me money.
Tell me about it. It's clueless people like that who support lazy, greedy and incompetent developers alike, even going as far as to criticise those who show some scepticism as if they're terrified you'll spoil everything by injecting a dose of reality.
Unfortunately this attitude is NOT constructive. Much as they wish to believe otherwise, there are lots of people out there looking to con you out of money, whether it's through televangelism or shoddy games. These people rely on the gullible and the eternally optimistic to send them cash.
I'm not saying MO is a scam, but paying SV money for a product they've not yet proven they can deliver gives entirely the wrong impression. I bet I could start an MMO right now with no skills whatsoever, as long as I release some stock artwork, some people are bound to send me money.
I think this one beats all of those others combined...
Darkfall went through this same problem back when it was first introduced. I still remember joining in the stick-poking of the "Once deceased body" that floated down the river that is these forums. Now Darkfall has resurrected as somewhat decent zombie. It has its flaws; sure, which begs the question. Why make a game that is almost exactly like Darkfall? Mortal Online is pretty much the same as Darkfall, with the exception that everything in Darkfall is done better.
The only thing you can't do in Darkfall is steal, but why bother stealing when you can just kill your opponent dead and take their stuff?
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
I concur. IIRC the doom and gloom surrounding Darkfall was much, much worse, as it stands now I would say Darkfall is probably more successful than anyone ever actually imagined it would be. Keep in mind DFO and MO are not made to draw the masses so it takes less subs to be a success.
Indeed. Darfall may not be for everyone, but I'm happy to see it survived the intro. What Darkfall lacks in subs it makes up for in its ability to create an experience for its players like no other MMORPG has done in a very long time. Even if you hate Darkfall, you have to at least respect it.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Come Join us at www.globalequestria.com - Meet other fans of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic!
Tell me about it. It's clueless people like that who support lazy, greedy and incompetent developers alike, even going as far as to criticise those who show some scepticism as if they're terrified you'll spoil everything by injecting a dose of reality.
Unfortunately this attitude is NOT constructive. Much as they wish to believe otherwise, there are lots of people out there looking to con you out of money, whether it's through televangelism or shoddy games. These people rely on the gullible and the eternally optimistic to send them cash.
I'm not saying MO is a scam, but paying SV money for a product they've not yet proven they can deliver gives entirely the wrong impression. I bet I could start an MMO right now with no skills whatsoever, as long as I release some stock artwork, some people are bound to send me money.
I think this one beats all of those others combined...
Lol, talk about missing the point like a champ. Throwing more money at something only works if you know the money will be spent effectively and that they're competent enough to actually improve on the game. SV have demonstrated the opposite with their sloppy design and execution. I would try explaining that to them but it would be like trying to explain to a fly why bashing its face against the window for an hour isn't going to help.
They took a gamble with lifting the NDA and it is backfiring because of all of the negative feedback due to performance issues. They need to quit concentrating on day/night cycles and get the existing content to work right first. If they keep trying to add more content before eliminating their serious bugs and performance issues they will just create bugs upon bugs. The players will leave and the roaches will rule.
If they get the client to run stable than yes, they still have a snowballs chance in hell. But they better do it quick before everyone says enough is enough.
Our spirit was here long before you
Long before us
And long will it be after your pride brings you to your end
Originally posted by Thrawl They need to quit concentrating on day/night cycles and get the existing content to work right first. If they keep trying to add more content before eliminating their serious bugs and performance issues they will just create bugs upon bugs. The players will leave and the roaches will rule.
You'd think.. but that's what they have always done.
The current skill system that they implemented made me gave up on MO. I loved the old one where u had all your skills visible in your skill tab and u could choose your "destiny" which is one of the fundamental ideas for a sandbox mmo. Now u are forced to go for a specific type of progression which really is zzz . For me , the person who came up whit this new skill system , killed the game and it's sad because it had allot of potential in terms of a great sandbox game . So to answer the op , no there is no hope .
They added the "new" skill system in hopes of fixing/masking the database issues. Since they can't fix the core issues, they'll keep hacking away at the game.
Originally posted by HerculesSAS Yes, but the best games were also made by people who DID make "software" before. That is true of ID (Doom/Wolf3d), true of Valve, and true of Blizzard too. They started small, built up a core following and kept growing. That's how they are where they are today.
Not by making something humungous that they have no ability to make.
Frankenstein Gone with the Wind To Kill a Mockingbird Interview with the Vampire Clerks
If only they had written short stories first.
People start with whatever inspires them. Sometimes it ends up being a flop, sometimes it ends up being "the great american novel" in the attic of someone who makes a living writing travel brochures, and sometimes it's revolutionary. I'm not saying MO will be as successful as any of those examples, but there was no telling how those would come out either
If you don't like what they end up making, don't buy it. That's no reason they shouldn't try to make it though.
I really hope MO makes it, actually. It has a lot of potential, and the drive for realism I find quite refreshing.
I'll admit, even as the resident DF "fanboi", there are some things that MO is doing that I wish were in Darkfall.
However, from what I see of the MO beta right now......it has a LOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNGGGG way to go. Can the money hold out that long??
I mean, MO is missing some VERY basic features at the moment....kind of shocking considering it's in open beta, and most of this stuff is usually already in the game at this point. Things like a file integrity checker, DESCRIPTIONS and tooltips, the ability to change graphic options in-game without resorting to fiddling with ini files, support for more than STEREO speakers....really basic stuff.
But I really hope they can get it together, and pull it off. The world of MMORPGS really needs more games like this, the more the better, IMO.
I tried Darkfall and didn't like It. I tried the MO beta and can say that they have very different ideas than Darkfall... I will probably be buying MO once they clean up some of the bugs / gameplay / fill the world up with more creatures to kill. I'm talking about the stuff that MO already has implemented too... they're good ideas. taming horses.. placing a house anywhere you want.. In DFo I can't place a house anywhere I want.. and I pretty much have to belong to a clan. Also, not to mention that I'm expecting the grind in MO to be signifcantly shorter than Darkfall (from what I've seen so far people get it done in a relatively short amount of time) which is a fucking GIGANTIC factor for me. although there is no way to tell for real. It's beta.
Yeah the grind is shorter but so are the skills. In MO you need all three character slots plus another account to be really viable or even remotely self sufficient.
Really you need one character to be "viable".
The whole point of the skill cap is to keep you from being self sufficient. The goal of the developers is to promote interdependence and a full range of interactions. If you become totally self sufficient, it ceases to be an MMO and becomes a single player game with a bunch of other people in it.
In MO your character's skills are determined by a decision (how you divide up the skill points available). In DF they are determined by just how much time you have spent grinding.
Frankenstein Gone with the Wind To Kill a Mockingbird Interview with the Vampire Clerks If only they had written short stories first. People start with whatever inspires them. Sometimes it ends up being a flop, sometimes it ends up being "the great american novel" in the attic of someone who makes a living writing travel brochures, and sometimes it's revolutionary. I'm not saying MO will be as successful as any of those examples, but there was no telling how those would come out either If you don't like what they end up making, don't buy it. That's no reason they shouldn't try to make it though.
An extremely poor example I think. Software development, particularly with games, is nothing like writing a novel. Frankenstein did not take a team of people 4 years and thousands or even millions of pounds to create. Nor did it require the meticulous planning and organisation needed by dev teams to avoid endless delays, unbalanced gameplay and overblowing the budget. It also did not need the technical expertise required to succeed in software development. A typo in a novel will not stop the reader enjoying the story. A single typo in one line of code can cause a game to crash.
If you want a better example, think of film development. Directors will start out small with short films and low budget indie films, then work their way up. Peter Jackson didn't just finish college, buy some camera equipment with his dad's money and start shooting the Lord of the Rings trilogy, relying on Tolkien fans to send donations when he ran into trouble. He started off small and gained experience so that when he was approached to make the Lord of the Rings trilogy, he had almost 20 years of experience behind him and he was able to plan everything so that he stayed as close to his budget and time frame as possible.
Similarly, If SV had started out small, developing a tighter, simpler game they could have learned a lot about game development, maybe earned some revenue and would have been in a much better shape for trying something as incredibly ambitious as MO. As it is, they bit off far more than they could chew and it looks like they're going to suffer for it.
The current skill system that they implemented made me gave up on MO. I loved the old one where u had all your skills visible in your skill tab and u could choose your "destiny" which is one of the fundamental ideas for a sandbox mmo. Now u are forced to go for a specific type of progression which really is zzz . For me , the person who came up whit this new skill system , killed the game and it's sad because it had allot of potential in terms of a great sandbox game . So to answer the op , no there is no hope .
absolutely correct
this is the thing that killed MO for me
still have hope that this will be changed but looks unlikely with all their other problems
Frankenstein Gone with the Wind To Kill a Mockingbird Interview with the Vampire Clerks If only they had written short stories first. People start with whatever inspires them. Sometimes it ends up being a flop, sometimes it ends up being "the great american novel" in the attic of someone who makes a living writing travel brochures, and sometimes it's revolutionary. I'm not saying MO will be as successful as any of those examples, but there was no telling how those would come out either If you don't like what they end up making, don't buy it. That's no reason they shouldn't try to make it though.
An extremely poor example I think. Software development, particularly with games, is nothing like writing a novel. Frankenstein did not take a team of people 4 years and thousands or even millions of pounds to create. Nor did it require the meticulous planning and organisation needed by dev teams to avoid endless delays, unbalanced gameplay and overblowing the budget. It also did not need the technical expertise required to succeed in software development. A typo in a novel will not stop the reader enjoying the story. A single typo in one line of code can cause a game to crash.
If you want a better example, think of film development. Directors will start out small with short films and low budget indie films, then work their way up. Peter Jackson didn't just finish college, buy some camera equipment with his dad's money and start shooting the Lord of the Rings trilogy, relying on Tolkien fans to send donations when he ran into trouble. He started off small and gained experience so that when he was approached to make the Lord of the Rings trilogy, he had almost 20 years of experience behind him and he was able to plan everything so that he stayed as close to his budget and time frame as possible.
Similarly, If SV had started out small, developing a tighter, simpler game they could have learned a lot about game development, maybe earned some revenue and would have been in a much better shape for trying something as incredibly ambitious as MO. As it is, they bit off far more than they could chew and it looks like they're going to suffer for it.
They do not miss knowledge realated to game development, they miss things related to software engineering in general. I plan to make my own game I want it to be an MMO yes, cuz hundreds thousands of players are nice to have especially if they pay 15$ to do so a month, however, I know for a fact that I cant pull it off, I know that I could do it if I had talented graphics people, and talented sounds people, and at least someone who can write good stories yes, I do not have those, nor the money for a decent server, that I can optimize my server for.
I can make a graphics engine i wrote over 15 of these all of them at different levels of complexity, and I am competent at game server programming and the associate network programming and optimization I doesent even remember how many runs, tests and debugging I did with these until I got what I wanted. I spent 5 years now studying programming, since I came out of high school I never attended any college or university. I was aware long before 18 that those facilities cannot make a programmer. I decided to be a game programmer at 12, after playing with duke nukem and red alert.
Programming in itself is an art form, just like you cant teach everyone how to make good looking 3d characters you cant teach people how to write software. I had family in the software industry, when with my little 12 year old self I said to them: "can you teach me how to make games" they replied with a laugh and told me thats something you cannot teach, you have to feel it to your bones, for that you have to study your ass off.
You can not teach ART, its something people learn by trying, spending ridiculous ammounts of time to be best at what they do. You need creativity, for that you have to read books and develop imagination. The moment I heard their programmers just came out of UNI I knew this game will be like this. There was no way they can pull it of, they did not have the necessary drive force to be best at what they do, they choose the easy wasy out, graduate for university, just cuz you can make more advanced software than a HELLO WORLD, and just becouse you crammed stuff you cant really understand, nor do you care to understand. Then you fooled some idiots into giving you development money, and laughed hard.
The fun part, they will get away with it somehow.
To the OP, this game has no chance to survive, its developers not simply beginners at what they do, THEY DO NOT CARE. I never heard indie developers who make games spending their own money, to go home at the weekends ESPECIALLY if their game doesent work, and PEOPLE PLAY IT. Hell I never heard the so hated and laughed at F2P games developers to do this.
That is simply unheard of. I never seen any indie game programmers make a beta test public, if the game doesent function. Starvault did, and thats shows they do not care about jack shit. I never gave away software that was incomplete. If I did, like with plugin based systems where you add more stuff later, I made sure the plugin loader worked, and the guy just had to copy, or install a new plugin.
They do not care about players, they do not care about anything, they MADE people PAY THEM MONEY, for somthing that doesent work at all, and they knew it doesent work too. I cant call that a developers attitude. Its embarassing when your software crashes, you HAVE TO BOW YOUR HEAD AND APOLOGIZE, and you have to find the error, even if you dont sleep for a week.
They sleep like babies,they make new features on the broken game. Its like you get huge hole fill it with quicksand you call that a foundation then you make a castle, with bad architecture, THEN you make more and more towers on that castle. The result will be less than imposing it will be laughable pieve of crap. Starvault did the same, just that there was some people who bought some rooms inside this miser of a castle they can continue to add more towers.
My personal opinion they should have gone out of business when they had the BLOCK A tests. it was apparent that they have no intention to make this game into a game at all. The blind fanboyism supports this poor slob of a game's uncaring developers. Even though it craves for the bullet to the head.
The only thing you can't do in Darkfall is steal, but why bother stealing when you can just kill your opponent dead and take their stuff?
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Cant agree with that. In DF the only thing you can really do is to Kill, in MO it is supposed to be much different. Killing is just part of the game as material extraction, crafting, exploring, trading etc. So named crafting and PvE in DF are just time sinks. They have nothing with trading and economy in general. So what is the purpose to have PvE and crafting in PvP game if they are used only to slow your PvP action?
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration ______\m/_____ LordOfDarkDesire
Frankenstein Gone with the Wind To Kill a Mockingbird Interview with the Vampire Clerks If only they had written short stories first. People start with whatever inspires them. Sometimes it ends up being a flop, sometimes it ends up being "the great american novel" in the attic of someone who makes a living writing travel brochures, and sometimes it's revolutionary. I'm not saying MO will be as successful as any of those examples, but there was no telling how those would come out either If you don't like what they end up making, don't buy it. That's no reason they shouldn't try to make it though.
An extremely poor example I think. Software development, particularly with games, is nothing like writing a novel. Frankenstein did not take a team of people 4 years and thousands or even millions of pounds to create. Nor did it require the meticulous planning and organisation needed by dev teams to avoid endless delays, unbalanced gameplay and overblowing the budget. It also did not need the technical expertise required to succeed in software development. A typo in a novel will not stop the reader enjoying the story. A single typo in one line of code can cause a game to crash.
If you want a better example, think of film development. Directors will start out small with short films and low budget indie films, then work their way up. Peter Jackson didn't just finish college, buy some camera equipment with his dad's money and start shooting the Lord of the Rings trilogy, relying on Tolkien fans to send donations when he ran into trouble. He started off small and gained experience so that when he was approached to make the Lord of the Rings trilogy, he had almost 20 years of experience behind him and he was able to plan everything so that he stayed as close to his budget and time frame as possible.
Similarly, If SV had started out small, developing a tighter, simpler game they could have learned a lot about game development, maybe earned some revenue and would have been in a much better shape for trying something as incredibly ambitious as MO. As it is, they bit off far more than they could chew and it looks like they're going to suffer for it.
They do not miss knowledge realated to game development, they miss things related to software engineering in general. I plan to make my own game I want it to be an MMO yes, cuz hundreds thousands of players are nice to have especially if they pay 15$ to do so a month, however, I know for a fact that I cant pull it off, I know that I could do it if I had talented graphics people, and talented sounds people, and at least someone who can write good stories yes, I do not have those, nor the money for a decent server, that I can optimize my server for.
I can make a graphics engine i wrote over 15 of these all of them at different levels of complexity, and I am competent at game server programming and the associate network programming and optimization I doesent even remember how many runs, tests and debugging I did with these until I got what I wanted. I spent 5 years now studying programming, since I came out of high school I never attended any college or university. I was aware long before 18 that those facilities cannot make a programmer. I decided to be a game programmer at 12, after playing with duke nukem and red alert.
Programming in itself is an art form, just like you cant teach everyone how to make good looking 3d characters you cant teach people how to write software. I had family in the software industry, when with my little 12 year old self I said to them: "can you teach me how to make games" they replied with a laugh and told me thats something you cannot teach, you have to feel it to your bones, for that you have to study your ass off.
You can not teach ART, its something people learn by trying, spending ridiculous ammounts of time to be best at what they do. You need creativity, for that you have to read books and develop imagination. The moment I heard their programmers just came out of UNI I knew this game will be like this. There was no way they can pull it of, they did not have the necessary drive force to be best at what they do, they choose the easy wasy out, graduate for university, just cuz you can make more advanced software than a HELLO WORLD, and just becouse you crammed stuff you cant really understand, nor do you care to understand. Then you fooled some idiots into giving you development money, and laughed hard.
The fun part, they will get away with it somehow.
To the OP, this game has no chance to survive, its developers not simply beginners at what they do, THEY DO NOT CARE. I never heard indie developers who make games spending their own money, to go home at the weekends ESPECIALLY if their game doesent work, and PEOPLE PLAY IT. Hell I never heard the so hated and laughed at F2P games developers to do this.
That is simply unheard of. I never seen any indie game programmers make a beta test public, if the game doesent function. Starvault did, and thats shows they do not care about jack shit. I never gave away software that was incomplete. If I did, like with plugin based systems where you add more stuff later, I made sure the plugin loader worked, and the guy just had to copy, or install a new plugin.
They do not care about players, they do not care about anything, they MADE people PAY THEM MONEY, for somthing that doesent work at all, and they knew it doesent work too. I cant call that a developers attitude. Its embarassing when your software crashes, you HAVE TO BOW YOUR HEAD AND APOLOGIZE, and you have to find the error, even if you dont sleep for a week.
They sleep like babies,they make new features on the broken game. Its like you get huge hole fill it with quicksand you call that a foundation then you make a castle, with bad architecture, THEN you make more and more towers on that castle. The result will be less than imposing it will be laughable pieve of crap. Starvault did the same, just that there was some people who bought some rooms inside this miser of a castle they can continue to add more towers.
My personal opinion they should have gone out of business when they had the BLOCK A tests. it was apparent that they have no intention to make this game into a game at all. The blind fanboyism supports this poor slob of a game's uncaring developers. Even though it craves for the bullet to the head.
+10
I absolutely agree with your opinion.
Myself, I would like to add that I downloaded the game this week to check on the state of the things.
My first impression - bad. Bad in everything - from char creation to graphics, from ui to interaction with the ingame world.
The state this "software" is in now would be excusable for a free project, but for somebody defining themselves as ''Developers'' it is a shame.
Total shame to charge over 50 euros for the game and present that current pile of crap for "open beta" testing.
Absolute shame to plan to charge 14 euro as a monthly subscription fee.
This ''game'' does not even deserve a monthly fee.
The company should refund all the customers who were misled by their vids into preordering, take the open beta down and reevaluate its own capability to run this project.
Originally posted by Neoptolemus An extremely poor example I think. Software development, particularly with games, is nothing like writing a novel. Frankenstein did not take a team of people 4 years and thousands or even millions of pounds to create. Nor did it require the meticulous planning and organisation needed by dev teams to avoid endless delays, unbalanced gameplay and overblowing the budget. It also did not need the technical expertise required to succeed in software development. A typo in a novel will not stop the reader enjoying the story. A single typo in one line of code can cause a game to crash. If you want a better example, think of film development. Directors will start out small with short films and low budget indie films, then work their way up. Peter Jackson didn't just finish college, buy some camera equipment with his dad's money and start shooting the Lord of the Rings trilogy, relying on Tolkien fans to send donations when he ran into trouble. He started off small and gained experience so that when he was approached to make the Lord of the Rings trilogy, he had almost 20 years of experience behind him and he was able to plan everything so that he stayed as close to his budget and time frame as possible. Similarly, If SV had started out small, developing a tighter, simpler game they could have learned a lot about game development, maybe earned some revenue and would have been in a much better shape for trying something as incredibly ambitious as MO. As it is, they bit off far more than they could chew and it looks like they're going to suffer for it.
Clerks is a movie. Admittedly it was produced on a low budget, but....
Books were easier to use as examples since they are the work of one person. Good Will Hunting was the first screenplay and first major roles for Ben Affleck and Matt Damon, but they got advice from Rob Reiner. Reservoir Dogs was Tarantino's first but Harvey Keitel helped raise the production money and helped with the production.
The point remains, until you buy the game you have nothing invested in it. If they want to tackle a major project like this, it's their own time and money to waste. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Insisting that all major projects only go to people who have a record of success on minor projects means inspiration and talent get drowned in years of making I-phone apps and facebook games. That and the desire of producers to stay close to tried and true formulas can lead to the products all looking like slight variations on the same thing.
The interests of the producer are not the same (money) as the interests of the developers (creativity, polish, and artistry)
I would compare creating a game to building a car, not writing a book.
You can draw all the pretty car pictures you want, you can drive all the cars you want. You can plan all you want,.
It requires a large factory, and lots of tools, and actual SKILL at building a car, to really build a car.
MO is like a go-kart, sure it does run, and you can ride it. And sure, you can build it in your garage. You could even technically try to call it a car. It is extremely rare that someone who has little or no mechanic experience, few tools and no factory, could just come up with a world class car.
Programming is not like writing, it is not like filming. Or perhaps it is like filming, but you have to build your own camera first.
I would compare creating a game to building a car, not writing a book. You can draw all the pretty car pictures you want, you can drive all the cars you want. You can plan all you want,. It requires a large factory, and lots of tools, and actual SKILL at building a car, to really build a car. MO is like a go-kart, sure it does run, and you can ride it. And sure, you can build it in your garage. You could even technically try to call it a car. It is extremely rare that someone who has little or no mechanic experience, few tools and no factory, could just come up with a world class car. Programming is not like writing, it is not like filming. Or perhaps it is like filming, but you have to build your own camera first.
But if you let someone else develop the chassis (unreal engine, speedtree) you can come up with the innovation.
I would compare creating a game to building a car, not writing a book. You can draw all the pretty car pictures you want, you can drive all the cars you want. You can plan all you want,. It requires a large factory, and lots of tools, and actual SKILL at building a car, to really build a car. MO is like a go-kart, sure it does run, and you can ride it. And sure, you can build it in your garage. You could even technically try to call it a car. It is extremely rare that someone who has little or no mechanic experience, few tools and no factory, could just come up with a world class car. Programming is not like writing, it is not like filming. Or perhaps it is like filming, but you have to build your own camera first.
But if you let someone else develop the chassis (unreal engine, speedtree) you can come up with the innovation.
So you think a small group of basically new mechanics can take a few parts they bought, engines, etc, and make a world class car out of it? on their own?
(Actually, this was really done once, with cars, kudos to whoever can guess which car! So it can be done, just very rarely.)
#2 I think if we compare mmo development with automotive industry then F1 racing comes to mind - you can not enter F1 without experienced team and drivers even if you buy engine and chassis tech from major stables.
However better comparison is with Chinese automakers - they try to emulate well known automakers and still fail at safety standarts - but at least they do not charge as those who they copycat.
SV with MO is like KeystoneKops producing world class video game
They do not miss knowledge realated to game development, they miss things related to software engineering in general. I plan to make my own game I want it to be an MMO yes, cuz hundreds thousands of players are nice to have especially if they pay 15$ to do so a month, however, I know for a fact that I cant pull it off, I know that I could do it if I had talented graphics people, and talented sounds people, and at least someone who can write good stories yes, I do not have those, nor the money for a decent server, that I can optimize my server for. I can make a graphics engine i wrote over 15 of these all of them at different levels of complexity, and I am competent at game server programming and the associate network programming and optimization I doesent even remember how many runs, tests and debugging I did with these until I got what I wanted. I spent 5 years now studying programming, since I came out of high school I never attended any college or university. I was aware long before 18 that those facilities cannot make a programmer. I decided to be a game programmer at 12, after playing with duke nukem and red alert. Programming in itself is an art form, just like you cant teach everyone how to make good looking 3d characters you cant teach people how to write software. I had family in the software industry, when with my little 12 year old self I said to them: "can you teach me how to make games" they replied with a laugh and told me thats something you cannot teach, you have to feel it to your bones, for that you have to study your ass off.
You can not teach ART, its something people learn by trying, spending ridiculous ammounts of time to be best at what they do. You need creativity, for that you have to read books and develop imagination. The moment I heard their programmers just came out of UNI I knew this game will be like this. There was no way they can pull it of, they did not have the necessary drive force to be best at what they do, they choose the easy wasy out, graduate for university, just cuz you can make more advanced software than a HELLO WORLD, and just becouse you crammed stuff you cant really understand, nor do you care to understand. Then you fooled some idiots into giving you development money, and laughed hard. The fun part, they will get away with it somehow. To the OP, this game has no chance to survive, its developers not simply beginners at what they do, THEY DO NOT CARE. I never heard indie developers who make games spending their own money, to go home at the weekends ESPECIALLY if their game doesent work, and PEOPLE PLAY IT. Hell I never heard the so hated and laughed at F2P games developers to do this.
That is simply unheard of. I never seen any indie game programmers make a beta test public, if the game doesent function. Starvault did, and thats shows they do not care about jack shit. I never gave away software that was incomplete. If I did, like with plugin based systems where you add more stuff later, I made sure the plugin loader worked, and the guy just had to copy, or install a new plugin.
They do not care about players, they do not care about anything, they MADE people PAY THEM MONEY, for somthing that doesent work at all, and they knew it doesent work too. I cant call that a developers attitude. Its embarassing when your software crashes, you HAVE TO BOW YOUR HEAD AND APOLOGIZE, and you have to find the error, even if you dont sleep for a week. They sleep like babies,they make new features on the broken game. Its like you get huge hole fill it with quicksand you call that a foundation then you make a castle, with bad architecture, THEN you make more and more towers on that castle. The result will be less than imposing it will be laughable pieve of crap. Starvault did the same, just that there was some people who bought some rooms inside this miser of a castle they can continue to add more towers. My personal opinion they should have gone out of business when they had the BLOCK A tests. it was apparent that they have no intention to make this game into a game at all. The blind fanboyism supports this poor slob of a game's uncaring developers. Even though it craves for the bullet to the head.
Just a point about software engineering... you DO learn a lot in college about the right formation of code, about how to manage code, how to create objects and create re-usable code. That stuff allows you to create scalable code, create portable code, and create GOOD code. It also helps you to follow a software development life cycle (SDLC) and other things. These things that you learn CAN be taught, but if you are good at logical problems then you can be a good coder.
Having the ability to create the logic, but also do it in a manner that allows others to use your work makes you a good programmer. Otherwise, you're just a 'code monkey'. And I don't hire code monkeys, so you'd be well advised to learn the processes that make you great, rather than just another coder. I can find a thousand of those in India, but I have to pay a premium for PROGRAMMERS. I don't mind mostly, because it works out to my advantage in projects
And that's exactly what we see with MO, their lack of formal training in programming is why the game is in shambles right now.
Calling college bullshit is a very moronic concept. I know many self taught musicians who seem to think the same way about lessons. Burt the truth is 90% of them would of been better musicians if they combined their drive with an education.
Calling college bullshit is a very moronic concept.
Agree 100%... Its normally spouted by a "fast tracker" at your local burger joint. No knowledge is wasted, regardless if it applies to your chosen profession or not.
#1: http://www.egmcartech.com/2010/03/09/nhtsa-to-join-toyota-on-runaway-prius-investigation-no-new-recall-for-prius/ #2 I think if we compare mmo development with automotive industry then F1 racing comes to mind - you can not enter F1 without experienced team and drivers even if you buy engine and chassis tech from major stables. However better comparison is with Chinese automakers - they try to emulate well known automakers and still fail at safety standarts - but at least they do not charge as those who they copycat. SV with MO is like KeystoneKops producing world class video game
#1 You have a concern about the Unreal engine? If not, then this is an irrelevent point.
#2 SV is not aiming to become a AAA game (F1 racecar), it's aiming to make a game
You mean Korean cars, right? (hyundai, daewoo, kia) Can't say that chinese cars (Beijing Automobile Works , Changfeng, BYD Auto, Dongfeng) compete on an even playing field. This is getting pretty fair of track though. China's monetary policy is not really germaine to the topic.
My objection to the whole "prior experience/small projects first" argument is that it boils down to aim low/play it safe. As long as SV is investing their own time and money, I think they should set their own goals. If you don't believe they can manage it, don't buy it.
Comments
Tell me about it. It's clueless people like that who support lazy, greedy and incompetent developers alike, even going as far as to criticise those who show some scepticism as if they're terrified you'll spoil everything by injecting a dose of reality.
Unfortunately this attitude is NOT constructive. Much as they wish to believe otherwise, there are lots of people out there looking to con you out of money, whether it's through televangelism or shoddy games. These people rely on the gullible and the eternally optimistic to send them cash.
I'm not saying MO is a scam, but paying SV money for a product they've not yet proven they can deliver gives entirely the wrong impression. I bet I could start an MMO right now with no skills whatsoever, as long as I release some stock artwork and promise to make the best game ever, some people are bound to send me money.
Tell me about it. It's clueless people like that who support lazy, greedy and incompetent developers alike, even going as far as to criticise those who show some scepticism as if they're terrified you'll spoil everything by injecting a dose of reality.
Unfortunately this attitude is NOT constructive. Much as they wish to believe otherwise, there are lots of people out there looking to con you out of money, whether it's through televangelism or shoddy games. These people rely on the gullible and the eternally optimistic to send them cash.
I'm not saying MO is a scam, but paying SV money for a product they've not yet proven they can deliver gives entirely the wrong impression. I bet I could start an MMO right now with no skills whatsoever, as long as I release some stock artwork, some people are bound to send me money.
I think this one beats all of those others combined...
www.mortalonline.com/forums/36938-poll-will-you-buy-subscribe-mo-its-current-state-4.html#post777804
I concur. IIRC the doom and gloom surrounding Darkfall was much, much worse, as it stands now I would say Darkfall is probably more successful than anyone ever actually imagined it would be. Keep in mind DFO and MO are not made to draw the masses so it takes less subs to be a success.
Indeed. Darfall may not be for everyone, but I'm happy to see it survived the intro. What Darkfall lacks in subs it makes up for in its ability to create an experience for its players like no other MMORPG has done in a very long time. Even if you hate Darkfall, you have to at least respect it.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Come Join us at www.globalequestria.com - Meet other fans of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic!
Tell me about it. It's clueless people like that who support lazy, greedy and incompetent developers alike, even going as far as to criticise those who show some scepticism as if they're terrified you'll spoil everything by injecting a dose of reality.
Unfortunately this attitude is NOT constructive. Much as they wish to believe otherwise, there are lots of people out there looking to con you out of money, whether it's through televangelism or shoddy games. These people rely on the gullible and the eternally optimistic to send them cash.
I'm not saying MO is a scam, but paying SV money for a product they've not yet proven they can deliver gives entirely the wrong impression. I bet I could start an MMO right now with no skills whatsoever, as long as I release some stock artwork, some people are bound to send me money.
I think this one beats all of those others combined...
www.mortalonline.com/forums/36938-poll-will-you-buy-subscribe-mo-its-current-state-4.html#post777804
Lol, talk about missing the point like a champ. Throwing more money at something only works if you know the money will be spent effectively and that they're competent enough to actually improve on the game. SV have demonstrated the opposite with their sloppy design and execution. I would try explaining that to them but it would be like trying to explain to a fly why bashing its face against the window for an hour isn't going to help.
They took a gamble with lifting the NDA and it is backfiring because of all of the negative feedback due to performance issues. They need to quit concentrating on day/night cycles and get the existing content to work right first. If they keep trying to add more content before eliminating their serious bugs and performance issues they will just create bugs upon bugs. The players will leave and the roaches will rule.
If they get the client to run stable than yes, they still have a snowballs chance in hell. But they better do it quick before everyone says enough is enough.
Our spirit was here long before you
Long before us
And long will it be after your pride brings you to your end
You'd think.. but that's what they have always done.
They added the "new" skill system in hopes of fixing/masking the database issues. Since they can't fix the core issues, they'll keep hacking away at the game.
I win!!! LOL@U
Frankenstein Gone with the Wind To Kill a Mockingbird Interview with the Vampire Clerks
If only they had written short stories first.
People start with whatever inspires them. Sometimes it ends up being a flop, sometimes it ends up being "the great american novel" in the attic of someone who makes a living writing travel brochures, and sometimes it's revolutionary. I'm not saying MO will be as successful as any of those examples, but there was no telling how those would come out either
If you don't like what they end up making, don't buy it. That's no reason they shouldn't try to make it though.
I really hope MO makes it, actually. It has a lot of potential, and the drive for realism I find quite refreshing.
I'll admit, even as the resident DF "fanboi", there are some things that MO is doing that I wish were in Darkfall.
However, from what I see of the MO beta right now......it has a LOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNGGGG way to go. Can the money hold out that long??
I mean, MO is missing some VERY basic features at the moment....kind of shocking considering it's in open beta, and most of this stuff is usually already in the game at this point. Things like a file integrity checker, DESCRIPTIONS and tooltips, the ability to change graphic options in-game without resorting to fiddling with ini files, support for more than STEREO speakers....really basic stuff.
But I really hope they can get it together, and pull it off. The world of MMORPGS really needs more games like this, the more the better, IMO.
Yeah the grind is shorter but so are the skills. In MO you need all three character slots plus another account to be really viable or even remotely self sufficient.
Really you need one character to be "viable".
The whole point of the skill cap is to keep you from being self sufficient. The goal of the developers is to promote interdependence and a full range of interactions. If you become totally self sufficient, it ceases to be an MMO and becomes a single player game with a bunch of other people in it.
In MO your character's skills are determined by a decision (how you divide up the skill points available). In DF they are determined by just how much time you have spent grinding.
An extremely poor example I think. Software development, particularly with games, is nothing like writing a novel. Frankenstein did not take a team of people 4 years and thousands or even millions of pounds to create. Nor did it require the meticulous planning and organisation needed by dev teams to avoid endless delays, unbalanced gameplay and overblowing the budget. It also did not need the technical expertise required to succeed in software development. A typo in a novel will not stop the reader enjoying the story. A single typo in one line of code can cause a game to crash.
If you want a better example, think of film development. Directors will start out small with short films and low budget indie films, then work their way up. Peter Jackson didn't just finish college, buy some camera equipment with his dad's money and start shooting the Lord of the Rings trilogy, relying on Tolkien fans to send donations when he ran into trouble. He started off small and gained experience so that when he was approached to make the Lord of the Rings trilogy, he had almost 20 years of experience behind him and he was able to plan everything so that he stayed as close to his budget and time frame as possible.
Similarly, If SV had started out small, developing a tighter, simpler game they could have learned a lot about game development, maybe earned some revenue and would have been in a much better shape for trying something as incredibly ambitious as MO. As it is, they bit off far more than they could chew and it looks like they're going to suffer for it.
absolutely correct
this is the thing that killed MO for me
still have hope that this will be changed but looks unlikely with all their other problems
An extremely poor example I think. Software development, particularly with games, is nothing like writing a novel. Frankenstein did not take a team of people 4 years and thousands or even millions of pounds to create. Nor did it require the meticulous planning and organisation needed by dev teams to avoid endless delays, unbalanced gameplay and overblowing the budget. It also did not need the technical expertise required to succeed in software development. A typo in a novel will not stop the reader enjoying the story. A single typo in one line of code can cause a game to crash.
If you want a better example, think of film development. Directors will start out small with short films and low budget indie films, then work their way up. Peter Jackson didn't just finish college, buy some camera equipment with his dad's money and start shooting the Lord of the Rings trilogy, relying on Tolkien fans to send donations when he ran into trouble. He started off small and gained experience so that when he was approached to make the Lord of the Rings trilogy, he had almost 20 years of experience behind him and he was able to plan everything so that he stayed as close to his budget and time frame as possible.
Similarly, If SV had started out small, developing a tighter, simpler game they could have learned a lot about game development, maybe earned some revenue and would have been in a much better shape for trying something as incredibly ambitious as MO. As it is, they bit off far more than they could chew and it looks like they're going to suffer for it.
They do not miss knowledge realated to game development, they miss things related to software engineering in general. I plan to make my own game I want it to be an MMO yes, cuz hundreds thousands of players are nice to have especially if they pay 15$ to do so a month, however, I know for a fact that I cant pull it off, I know that I could do it if I had talented graphics people, and talented sounds people, and at least someone who can write good stories yes, I do not have those, nor the money for a decent server, that I can optimize my server for.
I can make a graphics engine i wrote over 15 of these all of them at different levels of complexity, and I am competent at game server programming and the associate network programming and optimization I doesent even remember how many runs, tests and debugging I did with these until I got what I wanted. I spent 5 years now studying programming, since I came out of high school I never attended any college or university. I was aware long before 18 that those facilities cannot make a programmer. I decided to be a game programmer at 12, after playing with duke nukem and red alert.
Programming in itself is an art form, just like you cant teach everyone how to make good looking 3d characters you cant teach people how to write software. I had family in the software industry, when with my little 12 year old self I said to them: "can you teach me how to make games" they replied with a laugh and told me thats something you cannot teach, you have to feel it to your bones, for that you have to study your ass off.
You can not teach ART, its something people learn by trying, spending ridiculous ammounts of time to be best at what they do. You need creativity, for that you have to read books and develop imagination. The moment I heard their programmers just came out of UNI I knew this game will be like this. There was no way they can pull it of, they did not have the necessary drive force to be best at what they do, they choose the easy wasy out, graduate for university, just cuz you can make more advanced software than a HELLO WORLD, and just becouse you crammed stuff you cant really understand, nor do you care to understand. Then you fooled some idiots into giving you development money, and laughed hard.
The fun part, they will get away with it somehow.
To the OP, this game has no chance to survive, its developers not simply beginners at what they do, THEY DO NOT CARE. I never heard indie developers who make games spending their own money, to go home at the weekends ESPECIALLY if their game doesent work, and PEOPLE PLAY IT. Hell I never heard the so hated and laughed at F2P games developers to do this.
That is simply unheard of. I never seen any indie game programmers make a beta test public, if the game doesent function. Starvault did, and thats shows they do not care about jack shit. I never gave away software that was incomplete. If I did, like with plugin based systems where you add more stuff later, I made sure the plugin loader worked, and the guy just had to copy, or install a new plugin.
They do not care about players, they do not care about anything, they MADE people PAY THEM MONEY, for somthing that doesent work at all, and they knew it doesent work too. I cant call that a developers attitude. Its embarassing when your software crashes, you HAVE TO BOW YOUR HEAD AND APOLOGIZE, and you have to find the error, even if you dont sleep for a week.
They sleep like babies,they make new features on the broken game. Its like you get huge hole fill it with quicksand you call that a foundation then you make a castle, with bad architecture, THEN you make more and more towers on that castle. The result will be less than imposing it will be laughable pieve of crap. Starvault did the same, just that there was some people who bought some rooms inside this miser of a castle they can continue to add more towers.
My personal opinion they should have gone out of business when they had the BLOCK A tests. it was apparent that they have no intention to make this game into a game at all. The blind fanboyism supports this poor slob of a game's uncaring developers. Even though it craves for the bullet to the head.
Cant agree with that. In DF the only thing you can really do is to Kill, in MO it is supposed to be much different. Killing is just part of the game as material extraction, crafting, exploring, trading etc. So named crafting and PvE in DF are just time sinks. They have nothing with trading and economy in general. So what is the purpose to have PvE and crafting in PvP game if they are used only to slow your PvP action?
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration
______\m/_____
LordOfDarkDesire
An extremely poor example I think. Software development, particularly with games, is nothing like writing a novel. Frankenstein did not take a team of people 4 years and thousands or even millions of pounds to create. Nor did it require the meticulous planning and organisation needed by dev teams to avoid endless delays, unbalanced gameplay and overblowing the budget. It also did not need the technical expertise required to succeed in software development. A typo in a novel will not stop the reader enjoying the story. A single typo in one line of code can cause a game to crash.
If you want a better example, think of film development. Directors will start out small with short films and low budget indie films, then work their way up. Peter Jackson didn't just finish college, buy some camera equipment with his dad's money and start shooting the Lord of the Rings trilogy, relying on Tolkien fans to send donations when he ran into trouble. He started off small and gained experience so that when he was approached to make the Lord of the Rings trilogy, he had almost 20 years of experience behind him and he was able to plan everything so that he stayed as close to his budget and time frame as possible.
Similarly, If SV had started out small, developing a tighter, simpler game they could have learned a lot about game development, maybe earned some revenue and would have been in a much better shape for trying something as incredibly ambitious as MO. As it is, they bit off far more than they could chew and it looks like they're going to suffer for it.
They do not miss knowledge realated to game development, they miss things related to software engineering in general. I plan to make my own game I want it to be an MMO yes, cuz hundreds thousands of players are nice to have especially if they pay 15$ to do so a month, however, I know for a fact that I cant pull it off, I know that I could do it if I had talented graphics people, and talented sounds people, and at least someone who can write good stories yes, I do not have those, nor the money for a decent server, that I can optimize my server for.
I can make a graphics engine i wrote over 15 of these all of them at different levels of complexity, and I am competent at game server programming and the associate network programming and optimization I doesent even remember how many runs, tests and debugging I did with these until I got what I wanted. I spent 5 years now studying programming, since I came out of high school I never attended any college or university. I was aware long before 18 that those facilities cannot make a programmer. I decided to be a game programmer at 12, after playing with duke nukem and red alert.
Programming in itself is an art form, just like you cant teach everyone how to make good looking 3d characters you cant teach people how to write software. I had family in the software industry, when with my little 12 year old self I said to them: "can you teach me how to make games" they replied with a laugh and told me thats something you cannot teach, you have to feel it to your bones, for that you have to study your ass off.
You can not teach ART, its something people learn by trying, spending ridiculous ammounts of time to be best at what they do. You need creativity, for that you have to read books and develop imagination. The moment I heard their programmers just came out of UNI I knew this game will be like this. There was no way they can pull it of, they did not have the necessary drive force to be best at what they do, they choose the easy wasy out, graduate for university, just cuz you can make more advanced software than a HELLO WORLD, and just becouse you crammed stuff you cant really understand, nor do you care to understand. Then you fooled some idiots into giving you development money, and laughed hard.
The fun part, they will get away with it somehow.
To the OP, this game has no chance to survive, its developers not simply beginners at what they do, THEY DO NOT CARE. I never heard indie developers who make games spending their own money, to go home at the weekends ESPECIALLY if their game doesent work, and PEOPLE PLAY IT. Hell I never heard the so hated and laughed at F2P games developers to do this.
That is simply unheard of. I never seen any indie game programmers make a beta test public, if the game doesent function. Starvault did, and thats shows they do not care about jack shit. I never gave away software that was incomplete. If I did, like with plugin based systems where you add more stuff later, I made sure the plugin loader worked, and the guy just had to copy, or install a new plugin.
They do not care about players, they do not care about anything, they MADE people PAY THEM MONEY, for somthing that doesent work at all, and they knew it doesent work too. I cant call that a developers attitude. Its embarassing when your software crashes, you HAVE TO BOW YOUR HEAD AND APOLOGIZE, and you have to find the error, even if you dont sleep for a week.
They sleep like babies,they make new features on the broken game. Its like you get huge hole fill it with quicksand you call that a foundation then you make a castle, with bad architecture, THEN you make more and more towers on that castle. The result will be less than imposing it will be laughable pieve of crap. Starvault did the same, just that there was some people who bought some rooms inside this miser of a castle they can continue to add more towers.
My personal opinion they should have gone out of business when they had the BLOCK A tests. it was apparent that they have no intention to make this game into a game at all. The blind fanboyism supports this poor slob of a game's uncaring developers. Even though it craves for the bullet to the head.
+10
I absolutely agree with your opinion.
Myself, I would like to add that I downloaded the game this week to check on the state of the things.
My first impression - bad. Bad in everything - from char creation to graphics, from ui to interaction with the ingame world.
The state this "software" is in now would be excusable for a free project, but for somebody defining themselves as ''Developers'' it is a shame.
Total shame to charge over 50 euros for the game and present that current pile of crap for "open beta" testing.
Absolute shame to plan to charge 14 euro as a monthly subscription fee.
This ''game'' does not even deserve a monthly fee.
The company should refund all the customers who were misled by their vids into preordering, take the open beta down and reevaluate its own capability to run this project.
Clerks is a movie. Admittedly it was produced on a low budget, but....
Books were easier to use as examples since they are the work of one person. Good Will Hunting was the first screenplay and first major roles for Ben Affleck and Matt Damon, but they got advice from Rob Reiner. Reservoir Dogs was Tarantino's first but Harvey Keitel helped raise the production money and helped with the production.
The point remains, until you buy the game you have nothing invested in it. If they want to tackle a major project like this, it's their own time and money to waste. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Insisting that all major projects only go to people who have a record of success on minor projects means inspiration and talent get drowned in years of making I-phone apps and facebook games. That and the desire of producers to stay close to tried and true formulas can lead to the products all looking like slight variations on the same thing.
The interests of the producer are not the same (money) as the interests of the developers (creativity, polish, and artistry)
"We can wait patiently for Call of Duty 7: Duty Call. Based on past examples, it should be out by 2012, will sell about 12 billion copies, and have about two hours of gameplay. Woo." http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/4060/Call-of-Money.html
P.S. 'This ''game'' does not even deserve a monthly fee' The developers agree, that's why its still in beta.
I would compare creating a game to building a car, not writing a book.
You can draw all the pretty car pictures you want, you can drive all the cars you want. You can plan all you want,.
It requires a large factory, and lots of tools, and actual SKILL at building a car, to really build a car.
MO is like a go-kart, sure it does run, and you can ride it. And sure, you can build it in your garage. You could even technically try to call it a car. It is extremely rare that someone who has little or no mechanic experience, few tools and no factory, could just come up with a world class car.
Programming is not like writing, it is not like filming. Or perhaps it is like filming, but you have to build your own camera first.
------------
2025: 48 years on the Net.
Rofl.
You can burn me, but i wont die.
But if you let someone else develop the chassis (unreal engine, speedtree) you can come up with the innovation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prius%2B
But if you let someone else develop the chassis (unreal engine, speedtree) you can come up with the innovation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prius%2B
So you think a small group of basically new mechanics can take a few parts they bought, engines, etc, and make a world class car out of it? on their own?
(Actually, this was really done once, with cars, kudos to whoever can guess which car! So it can be done, just very rarely.)
------------
2025: 48 years on the Net.
#1: http://www.egmcartech.com/2010/03/09/nhtsa-to-join-toyota-on-runaway-prius-investigation-no-new-recall-for-prius/
#2 I think if we compare mmo development with automotive industry then F1 racing comes to mind - you can not enter F1 without experienced team and drivers even if you buy engine and chassis tech from major stables.
However better comparison is with Chinese automakers - they try to emulate well known automakers and still fail at safety standarts - but at least they do not charge as those who they copycat.
SV with MO is like KeystoneKops producing world class video game
Just a point about software engineering... you DO learn a lot in college about the right formation of code, about how to manage code, how to create objects and create re-usable code. That stuff allows you to create scalable code, create portable code, and create GOOD code. It also helps you to follow a software development life cycle (SDLC) and other things. These things that you learn CAN be taught, but if you are good at logical problems then you can be a good coder.
Having the ability to create the logic, but also do it in a manner that allows others to use your work makes you a good programmer. Otherwise, you're just a 'code monkey'. And I don't hire code monkeys, so you'd be well advised to learn the processes that make you great, rather than just another coder. I can find a thousand of those in India, but I have to pay a premium for PROGRAMMERS. I don't mind mostly, because it works out to my advantage in projects
And that's exactly what we see with MO, their lack of formal training in programming is why the game is in shambles right now.
Calling college bullshit is a very moronic concept. I know many self taught musicians who seem to think the same way about lessons. Burt the truth is 90% of them would of been better musicians if they combined their drive with an education.
Agree 100%... Its normally spouted by a "fast tracker" at your local burger joint.
No knowledge is wasted, regardless if it applies to your chosen profession or not.
I win!!! LOL@U
#1 You have a concern about the Unreal engine? If not, then this is an irrelevent point.
#2 SV is not aiming to become a AAA game (F1 racecar), it's aiming to make a game
You mean Korean cars, right? (hyundai, daewoo, kia) Can't say that chinese cars (Beijing Automobile Works , Changfeng, BYD Auto, Dongfeng) compete on an even playing field. This is getting pretty fair of track though. China's monetary policy is not really germaine to the topic.
My objection to the whole "prior experience/small projects first" argument is that it boils down to aim low/play it safe. As long as SV is investing their own time and money, I think they should set their own goals. If you don't believe they can manage it, don't buy it.