they're double-dipping by charging a sub fee and then charging extra for content that would normally have been included with the purchase/sub fee. That's pure unmitigated greed right there.
I definitely agree with this. The thing that I find the most stunning are the amount of people defending this technique being used by some companies.
It really is amazing the level some will go to protect a company no matter what that company does.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
People play games to escape from reality. They don't like it when reality impinges on their game.
In the world of monthly fees with unlimited time, time = value. The longer you can play, the better you are. As long as you are basically competent, then all you have to do is spend more time with a game, to be better. In the real world, those that spend the most time working get a similar return, money.
The issue with (flat)Monthly Fees vs Microtransactions is this:
Those that have more time, want time to be the measuring stick.
Those that have more money, want money to be the measuring stick .
The only 'fair' method is to return to an older payment method.... per minute/hour charges. However, neither side really wants fair, they just want their method to be the standard.
Lot of hatred towards F2P mmorpgs sprung from the mmorpg community. But I believe this hatred is really linked to fear. Why do you fear F2P mmorpg games? Why,,,,,,
Because achievement is purchased instead of earned through better gameplay. Some idiot without a clue can whip out a credit card and be decked out in the best gear.
Lot of hatred towards F2P mmorpgs sprung from the mmorpg community. But I believe this hatred is really linked to fear. Why do you fear F2P mmorpg games? Why,,,,,,
Because achievement is purchased instead of earned through better gameplay. Some idiot without a clue can whip out a credit card and be decked out in the best gear.
F2P cheapens MMO's, IMO.
In reality these games are not F2P, while the very basic options of the game might well be free, these games don't use the subscription method simply because they can make more profit selling ingame items that reduce the necessity of grinding for hours on end, and promote levelling, which means that if other players want to compete, they will have to buy these things also, these games are not F2P they are micropayment games, the only problem of course, is that if you add it all up, their actually far more expensive than the regular P2P games. imo, most, perhaps not all, but most, of these companies running so called F2P games, operate under some very dodgy principles, and thats why i think there is a lot of 'negative stigma' associated with them, which imo, is not undeserved.
Many things in many F2P are actually accessible in-game as well, DDO which is a good example (and also a great example of a hybrid income model, which I believe has potential for the future). Most of my experience with cash shops with most F2P are nothing game-breaking and is provided purely out of convenience and fluff (which some P2P's charge even).
This is the heart of what is wrong with the F2p model. MMOs operate on a simple format of time invested (all things being equal) resulting in progress or reward. F2P amps the time it takes to achieve various things in order to boost the sale of said things. It completely breaks down the integrity of the game, gives developers incentives to inflate the grind and difficulty, and otherwise arrange the game not around what makes sense from a gameplay perspective but what drives cash shop sales.
The root of the problem is escapism... People play games to escape from reality. They don't like it when reality impinges on their game. In the world of monthly fees with unlimited time, time = value. The longer you can play, the better you are. As long as you are basically competent, then all you have to do is spend more time with a game, to be better. In the real world, those that spend the most time working get a similar return, money. The issue with (flat)Monthly Fees vs Microtransactions is this: Those that have more time, want time to be the measuring stick. Those that have more money, want money to be the measuring stick . The only 'fair' method is to return to an older payment method.... per minute/hour charges. However, neither side really wants fair, they just want their method to be the standard.
There's a third option that should be listed..
Some of us don't measure it in time or money, but simply look at MMORPGs as a fun hobby to partake in, doing whatever we enjoy doing while we're logged in. I'm never concerned of how much time I'm spending, or how much money it's costing me to play a sub-based MMO. I bring it up in a previous post just to demonstrate how far $13 or $15 or whatever goes with even the most casual play schedule in a sub-based game.
I find it difficult to believe that anyone would scoff at the idea of paying about 50 cents per hour for 30 hours of play on a monthly sub, which gives you access to *everything*, and then argue that $20 for a mount that "expires" after a week or so is "reasonable", and expect anything but incredulity in response.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
The thing that gets me is how some of these f2p games stay afloat. Some I can see like DDO or Atlantica Online. They may not be my cup of tea but when you consider what they have to offer I can understand why someone may enjoy them.
But games like Last Chaos and 2 Moons? Why the hell would anyone spend money on those games when even within the realms of f2p there are better ones available?
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I am in no way afraid of "F2P", which should be properly called Micro-transaction based games. Ideally, these games should be playable for market value per month, which at the moment is $15-$20 per month (shifting more to the 20). Cash shop should, ideally, give lots of options to enjoy the game by customizing your experience in the cash shop for that $15-$20 per month. In addition, cash shop should have options, for those who want to enjoy them, to spend more than the basic average monthly spend on items that give certain benefits that maintain the integrity of the game. Just as players who play more often can receive benefits over casual players, those spending more should have options for same benefits, but being cashed based casual players can choose to spend to get ahead beyond what playtime alone allows.
This would be the ideal, as it is today most companies are going horribly wrong and are designing games around the cash shop to enforce it's use at a premium set by the corporate investors and executives, focused on using micro-transactions to drive greater monthly spends, in hopes most players don't track purchase costs. This is further hidden by using cash chop currency such as diamonds, gPotatoes, etc. This veil is meant to hide from less detail focused player their true monthly spend. This is akin to the irresponsible habits of banking lenders, such as credit cards, who have been screwing consumers for decades and only now fall under any kind of government regulation to protect consumers.
Vote with your $$$$ - spend in cash shops designed with reward and incentives in mind, do not fall for gimmicks like Allods, which is setup to ensure you must spend to play, and spend a ton, this is built to punish the player. In the future, I see hybrids that will offer huge success and versatility, such as DDO and EQ2. Micro-transaction business should be customer focused like any business, and as such should be driven by customer needs and values, while also making good business sense.
Show me a so called "F2P" with the above good qualities, and I will happily spend my $15-$20 in your shop, and to be honest, probably a whole ton more $$$$ to boot.
Because F2P games are more expensive than P2P games if you want to be someone, with less quality and support and with a lot more grind for for simply anything. Guild wars is not F2P, as it requires buying the game.
The thing that gets me is how some of these f2p games stay afloat. Some I can see like DDO or Atlantica Online. They may not be my cup of tea but when you consider what they have to offer I can understand why someone may enjoy them. But games like Last Chaos and 2 Moons? Why the hell would anyone spend money on those games when even within the realms of f2p there are better ones available?
This post hints at the other flaw in F2P that has me avoid them, developers make their money of the few people (think the breakdown is typically like 80%/20% with the smaller percentage of people never using the cash shop) who use the cash shop. So you have a situation where the average person is not even their 'customer' so they have little incentive to develop with 'me' in mind.
Not afraid to play to them, just refuse to play them because they are not F2P and usually cost more then P2P games.
I was in a F2P browser game last year, and there was a guy there who spent over $25k USD and mortgaged his house to purchase gold. You purchased gold through the developers and needed it to basically to do anything. This guy wanted to be the cream of the crop and he actually did this shit lol.
Still no one have explained why the DDO model is so horrible...
I don't argue that the DDO model is "horrible"... I think it's the most "reasonable" in terms of allowing you the option to pay a sub *or* Item mall. It wasn't worth it to me as a sub game before... likely wouldn't be now. and how it can be good for the players that someone who play 10 hours/ month have to pay the same as someone who play 100 hours/month.
Because how much or how little time an individual has (as in me, you or that guy over there) is not the developers' concern. They develop the game, they provide the same product and service, equally, to everyone, for the same amount. It's not their place to worry about whether Joe has 10 hours to play while Jim has 40 and Bob has 80. That's Joe's, James' and Bob's problem.
The point is, the service is there for you to play as much or as little as you want for the course of that month (maintenance notwithstanding). At some point the individuals have to make the decision for themselves if it's possible for them to enjoy a given game with their allotted time. If they can, then great. If they can't, then perhaps it's time to move on to something else.
The flaw in your question about it "being good for the players with 10 hours versus 100 hours per month" is that it isn't the developers' problem to worry about that.
If people would stop looking for someone to blame for their own poor decisions or poor judgment, and start thinking their decisions through more thoroughly - or at least taking responsibility for them - I think questions like yours would fall away.
But... I guess it's as the saying goes.. "Blame is better to give than receive"
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Still no one have explained why the DDO model is so horrible... and how it can be good for the players that someone who play 10 hours/ month have to pay the same as someone who play 100 hours/month.
Well I finally took the time to examine their shop, and honestly while it has the well-designed purchases (classes/adventures) it also has the terrible purchases that ruin gameplay (performance increases).
So League of Legends remains the only F2P game I know of which doesn't compromise its gameplay with item shop purchases.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Most supposed F2P MMO's seem to actually cost more money to play than P2P ones lol. Yeah they are free to download and play, but to even get close to the full experience the game has to offer adds up to ALOT more money than the P2p ones. Plus the overall quality of most f2p games just plain suck IMO.
Not for me. I have played ALLOD, DDO & a few other F2P games and never paid a cent. Majority of the players do not pay.
The trick is don't play it seriously. Get a few hours here and there and hop to the next game. No one forces you to pay a cent.
Lot of hatred towards F2P mmorpgs sprung from the mmorpg community. But I believe this hatred is really linked to fear. Why do you fear F2P mmorpg games? Why,,,,,,
It's probably been said on page 3, 5 or 7 of this post but I have to say it...
Most supposed F2P MMO's seem to actually cost more money to play than P2P ones lol. Yeah they are free to download and play, but to even get close to the full experience the game has to offer adds up to ALOT more money than the P2p ones. Plus the overall quality of most f2p games just plain suck IMO.
Not for me. I have played ALLOD, DDO & a few other F2P games and never paid a cent. Majority of the players do not pay.
A MMORPG developer will spend hundreds of thousands of dollars - if not millions - to develop a MMO. Even after launch, they have upkeep in the form of salaries, bandwidth, electric... rent... etc. etc.. They're counting on a model without the steady income of a subscription or box sales, and instead rely on people using an Item Mall to keep the game going...
And you believe they're doing this with the *minority* of their players paying, while the majority spend not a dime?
You really believe that?
Wow.
So what do you think the games and the companies are running on, good intentions?
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
So what do you think the games and the companies are running on, good intentions?
I suppose there's no one that does it for the love of pc gaming? I would figure they could of entered a better industry that they would of enjoyed more then. Not everyone's views of the world have to be as cynical as yours either
I want to believe there are good and bad sides to everything, I cannot believe something associated with the word "free" can carry entirely bad things for at the very least they provide some form of free content, which is much cheaper than entry for any P2P.
How much does it cost to try out a new P2P MMO? I haven't seen one released with a trial so generally if you cannot wait, you're either stuck hoping to get into an open beta or forking over that initial $50 to get everything started.
In regards to DDO, it might of started as sub and with its move into F2P having more success than in its previous state, you would figure there is some potential in there for a form of the F2P model to exist and be accepted as a more "legitimate" form of revenue than in its current state.
Like a previous poster said, whether or not a user spends their money is at the user's discretion entirely. What separates the good from the bad F2P's are having reasonable ways of playing a good portion of the game for free while still providing a cash shop to convenience people that wish to do so.
Some free content even if its not all of it, is still better than no free content at all, which is the advantage of F2P (over P2P) and its where the Free part comes from. They need cash shops to keep these games going or else they'll all just fall apart due to lack of revenue. Love it or hate it, the business side of MMO's exist and carry some importance in the continuance of any MMORPG.
Still no one have explained why the DDO model is so horrible... and how it can be good for the players that someone who play 10 hours/ month have to pay the same as someone who play 100 hours/month.
Well I finally took the time to examine their shop, and honestly while it has the well-designed purchases (classes/adventures) it also has the terrible purchases that ruin gameplay (performance increases).
So League of Legends remains the only F2P game I know of which doesn't compromise its gameplay with item shop purchases.
Agree, DDO is not as bad as the typical F2P model, but it does sell in game advantage and that leaves the door open for them to cater development not to gamer enjoyment but to cash shop sales. Though overall, I think DDO's hybrid system is more appealing because I still get the feeling the are using free to draw people in, cash shop to get people along from free to a sub. Anyways, I find DDO and GW models far more palatable though at least with the DDO model they walk a fine line.
Because achievement is purchased instead of earned
Agree. F2P breaks the basic integrity of how achievements are acquired.
So? If i am having fun playing the game, who cares whether others pay for xp or not?
It is like when i play WOW, i don't worry if the next guy buy his gold to pay for his mount.
Myopic much? It isn't about you, or me, or any couple of us. It is more about teh issues that arise from developers making money not off general game enjoyment but their ability to lure people in to spending money in the cash shops. Believe you me, the day games are predominantly, or even largely, they will cease to be much fun at all without following the for purchase carrots if even then.
Because achievement is purchased instead of earned
Agree. F2P breaks the basic integrity of how achievements are acquired.
So? If i am having fun playing the game, who cares whether others pay for xp or not?
It is like when i play WOW, i don't worry if the next guy buy his gold to pay for his mount.
Myopic much? It isn't about you, or me, or any couple of us. It is more about teh issues that arise from developers making money not off general game enjoyment but their ability to lure people in to spending money in the cash shops. Believe you me, the day games are predominantly, or even largely, they will cease to be much fun at all without following the for purchase carrots if even then.
Agreed. The whole premise of a F2P game fails. If you dont buy anything, then the game shuts down and thus devs HAVE to tempt you to buy items in order for them to hope of being competitive with other P2P AAA titles.
There are only two games that will achieve greatness in the F2P market:
1) Dungeons and Dragons becuase it was already a established P2P title and pretty much used cheat codes(metaphorically of course). I dont think this is wrong. There are a good number of games who should switch to a f2p style that have been p2p for a while. (DaOC/EQ/ etc)
2) Free Realms because kids love it. Dont ask me why b/c I dont play it but the kids love that game.
Most supposed F2P MMO's seem to actually cost more money to play than P2P ones lol. Yeah they are free to download and play, but to even get close to the full experience the game has to offer adds up to ALOT more money than the P2p ones. Plus the overall quality of most f2p games just plain suck IMO.
Not for me. I have played ALLOD, DDO & a few other F2P games and never paid a cent. Majority of the players do not pay.
A MMORPG developer will spend hundreds of thousands of dollars - if not millions - to develop a MMO. Even after launch, they have upkeep in the form of salaries, bandwidth, electric... rent... etc. etc.. They're counting on a model without the steady income of a subscription or box sales, and instead rely on people using an Item Mall to keep the game going...
And you believe they're doing this with the *minority* of their players paying, while the majority spend not a dime?
You really believe that?
Wow.
So what do you think the games and the companies are running on, good intentions?
It is true, the vast, vast majority of F2P games make their money of a small percentage. Roughly, the rule of 80/20 applies so you have a situation where 80% of players may never spend a dime, then of the remaining percentage the dollars spent are small and the final 1% spends a ton. Again, this is part of the problem with the model - the devs are building their game for the smaller percentage of people and not the way those who never spend a dine or even for those who only spend a little bit.
Comments
I definitely agree with this. The thing that I find the most stunning are the amount of people defending this technique being used by some companies.
It really is amazing the level some will go to protect a company no matter what that company does.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
The root of the problem is escapism...
People play games to escape from reality. They don't like it when reality impinges on their game.
In the world of monthly fees with unlimited time, time = value. The longer you can play, the better you are. As long as you are basically competent, then all you have to do is spend more time with a game, to be better. In the real world, those that spend the most time working get a similar return, money.
The issue with (flat)Monthly Fees vs Microtransactions is this:
Those that have more time, want time to be the measuring stick.
Those that have more money, want money to be the measuring stick .
The only 'fair' method is to return to an older payment method.... per minute/hour charges. However, neither side really wants fair, they just want their method to be the standard.
Because achievement is purchased instead of earned through better gameplay. Some idiot without a clue can whip out a credit card and be decked out in the best gear.
F2P cheapens MMO's, IMO.
Because achievement is purchased instead of earned through better gameplay. Some idiot without a clue can whip out a credit card and be decked out in the best gear.
F2P cheapens MMO's, IMO.
In reality these games are not F2P, while the very basic options of the game might well be free, these games don't use the subscription method simply because they can make more profit selling ingame items that reduce the necessity of grinding for hours on end, and promote levelling, which means that if other players want to compete, they will have to buy these things also, these games are not F2P they are micropayment games, the only problem of course, is that if you add it all up, their actually far more expensive than the regular P2P games. imo, most, perhaps not all, but most, of these companies running so called F2P games, operate under some very dodgy principles, and thats why i think there is a lot of 'negative stigma' associated with them, which imo, is not undeserved.
Many things in many F2P are actually accessible in-game as well, DDO which is a good example (and also a great example of a hybrid income model, which I believe has potential for the future). Most of my experience with cash shops with most F2P are nothing game-breaking and is provided purely out of convenience and fluff (which some P2P's charge even).
This is the heart of what is wrong with the F2p model. MMOs operate on a simple format of time invested (all things being equal) resulting in progress or reward. F2P amps the time it takes to achieve various things in order to boost the sale of said things. It completely breaks down the integrity of the game, gives developers incentives to inflate the grind and difficulty, and otherwise arrange the game not around what makes sense from a gameplay perspective but what drives cash shop sales.
--------------------------------
Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
There's a third option that should be listed..
Some of us don't measure it in time or money, but simply look at MMORPGs as a fun hobby to partake in, doing whatever we enjoy doing while we're logged in. I'm never concerned of how much time I'm spending, or how much money it's costing me to play a sub-based MMO. I bring it up in a previous post just to demonstrate how far $13 or $15 or whatever goes with even the most casual play schedule in a sub-based game.
I find it difficult to believe that anyone would scoff at the idea of paying about 50 cents per hour for 30 hours of play on a monthly sub, which gives you access to *everything*, and then argue that $20 for a mount that "expires" after a week or so is "reasonable", and expect anything but incredulity in response.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Agree. F2P breaks the basic integrity of how achievements are acquired.
--------------------------------
Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
The thing that gets me is how some of these f2p games stay afloat. Some I can see like DDO or Atlantica Online. They may not be my cup of tea but when you consider what they have to offer I can understand why someone may enjoy them.
But games like Last Chaos and 2 Moons? Why the hell would anyone spend money on those games when even within the realms of f2p there are better ones available?
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I am in no way afraid of "F2P", which should be properly called Micro-transaction based games. Ideally, these games should be playable for market value per month, which at the moment is $15-$20 per month (shifting more to the 20). Cash shop should, ideally, give lots of options to enjoy the game by customizing your experience in the cash shop for that $15-$20 per month. In addition, cash shop should have options, for those who want to enjoy them, to spend more than the basic average monthly spend on items that give certain benefits that maintain the integrity of the game. Just as players who play more often can receive benefits over casual players, those spending more should have options for same benefits, but being cashed based casual players can choose to spend to get ahead beyond what playtime alone allows.
This would be the ideal, as it is today most companies are going horribly wrong and are designing games around the cash shop to enforce it's use at a premium set by the corporate investors and executives, focused on using micro-transactions to drive greater monthly spends, in hopes most players don't track purchase costs. This is further hidden by using cash chop currency such as diamonds, gPotatoes, etc. This veil is meant to hide from less detail focused player their true monthly spend. This is akin to the irresponsible habits of banking lenders, such as credit cards, who have been screwing consumers for decades and only now fall under any kind of government regulation to protect consumers.
Vote with your $$$$ - spend in cash shops designed with reward and incentives in mind, do not fall for gimmicks like Allods, which is setup to ensure you must spend to play, and spend a ton, this is built to punish the player. In the future, I see hybrids that will offer huge success and versatility, such as DDO and EQ2. Micro-transaction business should be customer focused like any business, and as such should be driven by customer needs and values, while also making good business sense.
Show me a so called "F2P" with the above good qualities, and I will happily spend my $15-$20 in your shop, and to be honest, probably a whole ton more $$$$ to boot.
Because F2P games are more expensive than P2P games if you want to be someone, with less quality and support and with a lot more grind for for simply anything. Guild wars is not F2P, as it requires buying the game.
This post hints at the other flaw in F2P that has me avoid them, developers make their money of the few people (think the breakdown is typically like 80%/20% with the smaller percentage of people never using the cash shop) who use the cash shop. So you have a situation where the average person is not even their 'customer' so they have little incentive to develop with 'me' in mind.
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Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
Not afraid to play to them, just refuse to play them because they are not F2P and usually cost more then P2P games.
I was in a F2P browser game last year, and there was a guy there who spent over $25k USD and mortgaged his house to purchase gold. You purchased gold through the developers and needed it to basically to do anything. This guy wanted to be the cream of the crop and he actually did this shit lol.
Still no one have explained why the DDO model is so horrible...
and how it can be good for the players that someone who play 10 hours/ month have to pay the same as someone who play 100 hours/month.
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Well I finally took the time to examine their shop, and honestly while it has the well-designed purchases (classes/adventures) it also has the terrible purchases that ruin gameplay (performance increases).
So League of Legends remains the only F2P game I know of which doesn't compromise its gameplay with item shop purchases.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Not for me. I have played ALLOD, DDO & a few other F2P games and never paid a cent. Majority of the players do not pay.
The trick is don't play it seriously. Get a few hours here and there and hop to the next game. No one forces you to pay a cent.
Agree. F2P breaks the basic integrity of how achievements are acquired.
So? If i am having fun playing the game, who cares whether others pay for xp or not?
It is like when i play WOW, i don't worry if the next guy buy his gold to pay for his mount.
It's probably been said on page 3, 5 or 7 of this post but I have to say it...
" I'm not afraid of F2P mmorpg games"
If you get points for replys, grats lol!
Not for me. I have played ALLOD, DDO & a few other F2P games and never paid a cent. Majority of the players do not pay.
A MMORPG developer will spend hundreds of thousands of dollars - if not millions - to develop a MMO. Even after launch, they have upkeep in the form of salaries, bandwidth, electric... rent... etc. etc.. They're counting on a model without the steady income of a subscription or box sales, and instead rely on people using an Item Mall to keep the game going...
And you believe they're doing this with the *minority* of their players paying, while the majority spend not a dime?
You really believe that?
Wow.
So what do you think the games and the companies are running on, good intentions?
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I suppose there's no one that does it for the love of pc gaming? I would figure they could of entered a better industry that they would of enjoyed more then. Not everyone's views of the world have to be as cynical as yours either
I want to believe there are good and bad sides to everything, I cannot believe something associated with the word "free" can carry entirely bad things for at the very least they provide some form of free content, which is much cheaper than entry for any P2P.
How much does it cost to try out a new P2P MMO? I haven't seen one released with a trial so generally if you cannot wait, you're either stuck hoping to get into an open beta or forking over that initial $50 to get everything started.
In regards to DDO, it might of started as sub and with its move into F2P having more success than in its previous state, you would figure there is some potential in there for a form of the F2P model to exist and be accepted as a more "legitimate" form of revenue than in its current state.
Like a previous poster said, whether or not a user spends their money is at the user's discretion entirely. What separates the good from the bad F2P's are having reasonable ways of playing a good portion of the game for free while still providing a cash shop to convenience people that wish to do so.
Some free content even if its not all of it, is still better than no free content at all, which is the advantage of F2P (over P2P) and its where the Free part comes from. They need cash shops to keep these games going or else they'll all just fall apart due to lack of revenue. Love it or hate it, the business side of MMO's exist and carry some importance in the continuance of any MMORPG.
Well I finally took the time to examine their shop, and honestly while it has the well-designed purchases (classes/adventures) it also has the terrible purchases that ruin gameplay (performance increases).
So League of Legends remains the only F2P game I know of which doesn't compromise its gameplay with item shop purchases.
Agree, DDO is not as bad as the typical F2P model, but it does sell in game advantage and that leaves the door open for them to cater development not to gamer enjoyment but to cash shop sales. Though overall, I think DDO's hybrid system is more appealing because I still get the feeling the are using free to draw people in, cash shop to get people along from free to a sub. Anyways, I find DDO and GW models far more palatable though at least with the DDO model they walk a fine line.
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Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
Agree. F2P breaks the basic integrity of how achievements are acquired.
So? If i am having fun playing the game, who cares whether others pay for xp or not?
It is like when i play WOW, i don't worry if the next guy buy his gold to pay for his mount.
Myopic much? It isn't about you, or me, or any couple of us. It is more about teh issues that arise from developers making money not off general game enjoyment but their ability to lure people in to spending money in the cash shops. Believe you me, the day games are predominantly, or even largely, they will cease to be much fun at all without following the for purchase carrots if even then.
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Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
Agree. F2P breaks the basic integrity of how achievements are acquired.
So? If i am having fun playing the game, who cares whether others pay for xp or not?
It is like when i play WOW, i don't worry if the next guy buy his gold to pay for his mount.
Myopic much? It isn't about you, or me, or any couple of us. It is more about teh issues that arise from developers making money not off general game enjoyment but their ability to lure people in to spending money in the cash shops. Believe you me, the day games are predominantly, or even largely, they will cease to be much fun at all without following the for purchase carrots if even then.
Agreed. The whole premise of a F2P game fails. If you dont buy anything, then the game shuts down and thus devs HAVE to tempt you to buy items in order for them to hope of being competitive with other P2P AAA titles.
There are only two games that will achieve greatness in the F2P market:
1) Dungeons and Dragons becuase it was already a established P2P title and pretty much used cheat codes(metaphorically of course). I dont think this is wrong. There are a good number of games who should switch to a f2p style that have been p2p for a while. (DaOC/EQ/ etc)
2) Free Realms because kids love it. Dont ask me why b/c I dont play it but the kids love that game.
Not for me. I have played ALLOD, DDO & a few other F2P games and never paid a cent. Majority of the players do not pay.
A MMORPG developer will spend hundreds of thousands of dollars - if not millions - to develop a MMO. Even after launch, they have upkeep in the form of salaries, bandwidth, electric... rent... etc. etc.. They're counting on a model without the steady income of a subscription or box sales, and instead rely on people using an Item Mall to keep the game going...
And you believe they're doing this with the *minority* of their players paying, while the majority spend not a dime?
You really believe that?
Wow.
So what do you think the games and the companies are running on, good intentions?
It is true, the vast, vast majority of F2P games make their money of a small percentage. Roughly, the rule of 80/20 applies so you have a situation where 80% of players may never spend a dime, then of the remaining percentage the dollars spent are small and the final 1% spends a ton. Again, this is part of the problem with the model - the devs are building their game for the smaller percentage of people and not the way those who never spend a dine or even for those who only spend a little bit.
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Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
I fear it's not about fun anymore
Godspeed my fellow gamer