F2P=Force 2 Play P2P= Everybody are egual and start with the same chances (opposed to real life), content is extremely well done (DFO, Eve Online).
Lol... try Star Trek Online (p2p), then try Allods Online (f2p) and try saying that again...
actually, i do like f2p games 'cause i'm not trying to compete, i just play them as co-op with my friends, and have nothing to pay except what i want to
i'm not paying a monthly fee if i'm not sure how much time i can (and will) dedicate to it... now, if monthly fees were actually counted as *game time* (that is, i buy a month worth of hours to spend on servers), it would be entirely different :P
P2P= Everybody are egual and start with the same chances (opposed to real life), content is extremely well done (DFO, Eve Online).
Lol... try Star Trek Online (p2p), then try Allods Online (f2p) and try saying that again...
all rules have exceptions, anyway exceptions are just that, exceptions. good F2Ps,like albinos,are 1 out of every 17,000.
and anyway Allods might be a quality game, but its cash shop is the climax of greed and disproportionate unconvenience to the player. Hence your point still fails.
The current widespread F2P model deserve to die for the good of the industry.
Well i think the one you are promoting is not a F2P, in the topic players are nto afraid of F2P its just happen that they spend more on F2P rather than on P2P. and i believe if you dont pay for the guildwars you cannot play lol pay to play
Lot of hatred towards F2P mmorpgs sprung from the mmorpg community. But I believe this hatred is really linked to fear. Why do you fear F2P mmorpg games? Why,,,,,,
For me it's because they're not really F2P. Oh sure, you can fire them up and do basic things, but to get to the real meat of the game, you have to pay fees here and there. Why not just make it a regular monthly subscription and offer the same things available to everyone as quest and gameplay rewards?
EDIT: @ Maji-- Precisely.
But look at Guild Wars. they are balanced. So your arguement is flawed here buddy
As plenty have said, Guild Wars isn't completely F2P. You have to buy it first. My comments were primarily aimed at the 2753676245214365 other games from companies no one has ever heard of that have item malls.
So, buddy, consider it an exception to the rule.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Most people don't have the time, nor the will to grind in those games. They are designed as grinds specifically so that people purchase items from their cash shops. As such, the normal progression in those games is with cash shop items in mind. If you have the dedication to grind through the levels of 5 F2P games, I applaud your tenacity. I personally don't want to grind in a game that isn't that good anyway.
This might fall around the same idea where P2P throw most of their content at the end game and leave the early and mid game alone. When was the last time any P2P MMO has updated any stage previous to the end game (and I seriously mean with any meaningful content, no BS small updates)? You can argue they force you to grind through an early and mid game before you get to the cool, more involving end game so you are forced to pay a longer subscription.
Why is it that you are forced to grind out dailies, reputation or instances in order to get the most up to date bad ass piece? To make you play longer. See P2P can easily fall around the same lines as F2P if not worse because hey guess what, F2P aren't the only one with cash shops anymore.
People are scared due to their own ignorance and see P2P as some shiny light to champion MMO industry (at least in the West). People want to cry that F2P is just out for money, but P2P do similar gimmicky things if not worse because the value of a monthly subscriptions is starting to cover less and less. People fear that they will not be able to control their own wallets and feel entitled to having to be the best in the quickest fashions.
P2P does that and eliminates any uncertainty or decision making and let's face it, the general population is lazy when it comes to any type of thinking or choice making. A monthly subscription is just so much easier and these same people are the same kinds that probably get suckered out of their money on a regular basis due to misconceptions and ignorance.
PS Who cares that the term F2P is used and its technically not "free? It's worse than trying to define marriage in America -_-
People should stop citing DDO as an example of a F2P that is "good".
It started off as a P2P, with the development time and relative level of quality that goes with that.
Having said that, it was not a particularly successful MMO, and its sub base had bottomed out to the point that the people running that game felt they were not losing much by going to that model. Many people felt it was too restricted, with too many instances, especially considering what fans of the IP expected.
DDO was never designed to go F2P, and I doubt the devs were happy it did.
People should stop citing DDO as an example of a F2P that is "good". It started off as a P2P, with the development time and relative level of quality that goes with that. Having said that, it was not a particularly successful MMO, and its sub base had bottomed out to the point that the people running that game felt they were not losing much by going to that model. Many people felt it was too restricted, with too many instances, especially considering what fans of the IP expected. DDO was never designed to go F2P, and I doubt the devs were happy it did.
Of course they are. Search the thread. There is a post about an article saying that DDO's revenue growth by 500% since it turns F2P and its sub based increased 2x (the rest of the increase by the item shop).
It is used as the poster child of how going F2P to be a successful business move. The developers are VERY pleased.
Sup, im brazilian and, god damnit i hate every single brazilian playing mmo's, you see, here im brazil, we have this "thing" that everyone has to get some advantage from everything, its like swimming with sharks, you see brazilian people, they are trying to get something of you (at least at games), they dont even try to speak the game language and they are always trying to find some bug to exploit, or working bots of anything that gives advantage (mostly in PvP games), when everything fails, they spend money to get that feeling that they are better then others and now they are finally taking advantage of people.
Hate then all, trust no brazilian, well you can trust the ones who dosent ask for anything, or dont tell they are brazilians.
People should stop citing DDO as an example of a F2P that is "good". It started off as a P2P, with the development time and relative level of quality that goes with that. Having said that, it was not a particularly successful MMO, and its sub base had bottomed out to the point that the people running that game felt they were not losing much by going to that model. Many people felt it was too restricted, with too many instances, especially considering what fans of the IP expected. DDO was never designed to go F2P, and I doubt the devs were happy it did. Sir you are sadly mistakein DDO from Day one was slotted to go F2P Those 3 years it rolled as a P2P those of us that had been playing from the start knew it was going F2P i think it was the 11th month from open they gave the comunitty anouncement that DDO would at some point in time become F2P
Most people don't have the time, nor the will to grind in those games. They are designed as grinds specifically so that people purchase items from their cash shops. As such, the normal progression in those games is with cash shop items in mind.
If you have the dedication to grind through the levels of 5 F2P games, I applaud your tenacity. I personally don't want to grind in a game that isn't that good anyway.
This might fall around the same idea where P2P throw most of their content at the end game and leave the early and mid game alone. When was the last time any P2P MMO has updated any stage previous to the end game (and I seriously mean with any meaningful content, no BS small updates)? You can argue they force you to grind through an early and mid game before you get to the cool, more involving end game so you are forced to pay a longer subscription.
Why is it that you are forced to grind out dailies, reputation or instances in order to get the most up to date bad ass piece? To make you play longer. See P2P can easily fall around the same lines as F2P if not worse because hey guess what, F2P aren't the only one with cash shops anymore.
People are scared due to their own ignorance and see P2P as some shiny light to champion MMO industry (at least in the West). People want to cry that F2P is just out for money, but P2P do similar gimmicky things if not worse because the value of a monthly subscriptions is starting to cover less and less. People fear that they will not be able to control their own wallets and feel entitled to having to be the best in the quickest fashions.
P2P does that and eliminates any uncertainty or decision making and let's face it, the general population is lazy when it comes to any type of thinking or choice making. A monthly subscription is just so much easier and these same people are the same kinds that probably get suckered out of their money on a regular basis due to misconceptions and ignorance.
PS Who cares that the term F2P is used and its technically not "free? It's worse than trying to define marriage in America -_-
You're mostly talking about World of Warcraft. As far as WoW goes, I agree with you, the game is top heavy. Most P2P games that do have a cash shop, mostly offer useless cosmetic items, housing items and non-combat pets. Maybe a character respec or a name change. None of these things are required to progress and stay competitive in the game.
Most MMOs are designed with time sinks. You're expected to do repetitive tasks and are rewarded for them. However, F2P games are set up specifically so that you're enticed into buying their +XP potions or combat boost potions in order to minimize the grind. That is why they have more grind. You're expected to buy booster items that will minimize the grind. And if you refuse to buy those items, the grind hits you hard.
As you said, people are lazy and the cash shops offer a solution: Facing a 6 hour grind to next level? Buy a potion and cut the grind in half.
P2P games start everyone on equal footing. That equal footing is maintained through out the whole game and the player's skill and dedication to the game determines his or her progression. F2P games start everyone on equal footing and then offer a way for someone willing to pay to be a step or two above others. The players wallet determines his or her progression. Sure, it's possible to progress without using cash shop items but it may take twice as long and be twice as boring.
P2P games have their flaws... The whole genre does. These games are set up to be repetitive time sinks with positive reinforcement. BF Skinner would be proud. P2P games are better because all of the players, regardless of their financial status, are on equal footing.
Most people don't have the time, nor the will to grind in those games. They are designed as grinds specifically so that people purchase items from their cash shops. As such, the normal progression in those games is with cash shop items in mind.
If you have the dedication to grind through the levels of 5 F2P games, I applaud your tenacity. I personally don't want to grind in a game that isn't that good anyway.
This might fall around the same idea where P2P throw most of their content at the end game and leave the early and mid game alone. When was the last time any P2P MMO has updated any stage previous to the end game (and I seriously mean with any meaningful content, no BS small updates)? You can argue they force you to grind through an early and mid game before you get to the cool, more involving end game so you are forced to pay a longer subscription.
Why is it that you are forced to grind out dailies, reputation or instances in order to get the most up to date bad ass piece? To make you play longer. See P2P can easily fall around the same lines as F2P if not worse because hey guess what, F2P aren't the only one with cash shops anymore.
People are scared due to their own ignorance and see P2P as some shiny light to champion MMO industry (at least in the West). People want to cry that F2P is just out for money, but P2P do similar gimmicky things if not worse because the value of a monthly subscriptions is starting to cover less and less. People fear that they will not be able to control their own wallets and feel entitled to having to be the best in the quickest fashions.
P2P does that and eliminates any uncertainty or decision making and let's face it, the general population is lazy when it comes to any type of thinking or choice making. A monthly subscription is just so much easier and these same people are the same kinds that probably get suckered out of their money on a regular basis due to misconceptions and ignorance.
PS Who cares that the term F2P is used and its technically not "free? It's worse than trying to define marriage in America -_-
I was going to post, then found this, exactly what I was going for
They cripple the bird's wing, and then condemn it for not flying as fast as they.Malcolm X
This might fall around the same idea where P2P throw most of their content at the end game and leave the early and mid game alone. When was the last time any P2P MMO has updated any stage previous to the end game (and I seriously mean with any meaningful content, no BS small updates)? You can argue they force you to grind through an early and mid game before you get to the cool, more involving end game so you are forced to pay a longer subscription. Why is it that you are forced to grind out dailies, reputation or instances in order to get the most up to date bad ass piece? To make you play longer. See P2P can easily fall around the same lines as F2P if not worse because hey guess what, F2P aren't the only one with cash shops anymore. People are scared due to their own ignorance and see P2P as some shiny light to champion MMO industry (at least in the West). People want to cry that F2P is just out for money, but P2P do similar gimmicky things if not worse because the value of a monthly subscriptions is starting to cover less and less. People fear that they will not be able to control their own wallets and feel entitled to having to be the best in the quickest fashions. P2P does that and eliminates any uncertainty or decision making and let's face it, the general population is lazy when it comes to any type of thinking or choice making. A monthly subscription is just so much easier and these same people are the same kinds that probably get suckered out of their money on a regular basis due to misconceptions and ignorance. PS Who cares that the term F2P is used and its technically not "free? It's worse than trying to define marriage in America -_-
good job ignoring people's top 2 reasons to hate F2P games:
1) being wildly outspended (then submissed) by others
2) game becoming a wasteland full of annoying kids, hackers, farmers.
[Mod Edit]
People are not scared of F2P games, they just happen to think they are a pathetic excuse for a game, more like a virtual place that let the door open for the scum of the earth, and where the wealthiest scums rule over the poor scums.
so there are no scum in P2P games,no elitest bricks, no dumb 13 yos running around screwing the game experience for you,no hackers, no bots,you are quite the hypocrite arent you.
man I saw more scum in P2P games than all the F2P games I played compined together
They cripple the bird's wing, and then condemn it for not flying as fast as they.Malcolm X
I tried some, didn't like the idea that you could buy yourself success so I quit and started play more decent and fair games of higher quality. Community can be good in F2P games but they spend far too much money on their crap games and I honestly feel a bit sorry for them, especially the kids who regret it when they get wiser. That would be the only reason to fear them, they exploit kids who doesn't understand better.
so there are no scum in P2P games,no elitest bricks, no dumb 13 yos running around screwing the game experience for you,no hackers, no bots,you are quite the hypocrite arent you. man I saw more scum in P2P games than all the F2P games I played compined together
Its like being bothered by a filthy junkie, you are never safe
it can happen to you in a bank...but if you go to a downtown dark alley at 3 am its more likely to find them.
F2P = downtown dark alley at 3 am
P2P= bank
and i doubt you saw more scum in P2P games, for the way you talk and think, Its quite obvious you are a 12 year old kid that has never had 1 dollar to pay for a sub. enjoy your F2P bullshit.
This might fall around the same idea where P2P throw most of their content at the end game and leave the early and mid game alone. When was the last time any P2P MMO has updated any stage previous to the end game (and I seriously mean with any meaningful content, no BS small updates)? You can argue they force you to grind through an early and mid game before you get to the cool, more involving end game so you are forced to pay a longer subscription. Why is it that you are forced to grind out dailies, reputation or instances in order to get the most up to date bad ass piece? To make you play longer. See P2P can easily fall around the same lines as F2P if not worse because hey guess what, F2P aren't the only one with cash shops anymore. People are scared due to their own ignorance and see P2P as some shiny light to champion MMO industry (at least in the West). People want to cry that F2P is just out for money, but P2P do similar gimmicky things if not worse because the value of a monthly subscriptions is starting to cover less and less. People fear that they will not be able to control their own wallets and feel entitled to having to be the best in the quickest fashions. P2P does that and eliminates any uncertainty or decision making and let's face it, the general population is lazy when it comes to any type of thinking or choice making. A monthly subscription is just so much easier and these same people are the same kinds that probably get suckered out of their money on a regular basis due to misconceptions and ignorance. PS Who cares that the term F2P is used and its technically not "free? It's worse than trying to define marriage in America -_-
good job ignoring people's top 2 reasons to hate F2P games:
1) being wildly outspended (then submissed) by others
2) game becoming a wasteland full of annoying kids, hackers, farmers.
[Mod Edit]
People are not scared of F2P games, they just happen to think they are a pathetic excuse for a game, more like a virtual place that let the door open for the scum of the earth, and where the wealthiest scums rule over the poor scums.
and you enjoy it? ummmmmmm......
why does (1) matter in a pve game? I was playing DDO and i am sure there are people outspending me by a mile (cause i spend NOTHING). That does not detract me from my enjoyment of the quests.
Plus, very few percentage of F2P players pay so you are more likely to play with people without paying a cent than those who do.
People should stop citing DDO as an example of a F2P that is "good". It started off as a P2P, with the development time and relative level of quality that goes with that. Having said that, it was not a particularly successful MMO, and its sub base had bottomed out to the point that the people running that game felt they were not losing much by going to that model. Many people felt it was too restricted, with too many instances, especially considering what fans of the IP expected. DDO was never designed to go F2P, and I doubt the devs were happy it did.
Of course they are. Search the thread. There is a post about an article saying that DDO's revenue growth by 500% since it turns F2P and its sub based increased 2x (the rest of the increase by the item shop).
It is used as the poster child of how going F2P to be a successful business move. The developers are VERY pleased.
And yet, you say nothing about the main point, DDO is better than other F2Ps, BECAUSE it was not developed as a F2P. Had it been, it would have come out in much different shape. I guarantee it was not funded for development with that in mind.
As to how much their revenue has gone up, 500% revenue increase over a base of not much, is not much to brag about. Estimates for active subs before they went F2P ranged from 3-7k, so it not like they were risking much. In the MMO market, that's nothing, unless you are SOE and you have 5 games all doing that.
The developers are pleased they are getting anything. If you think that they are happy that their game was not good enough to compete in the P2P market, and going F2P was anything but a last ditch effort to break even before closure, I am sure they would disagree.
They are happy to get any revenue whatsoever... too much longer and they'd have been getting none.
why does (1) matter in a pve game? I was playing DDO and i am sure there are people outspending me by a mile (cause i spend NOTHING). That does not detract me from my enjoyment of the quests. Plus, very few percentage of F2P players pay so you are more likely to play with people without paying a cent than those who do.
Very few percentage of F2P players pay? Provide evidence of this please. If it is true, how can those companies earn their money? Please explain. This is so different from what I have experienced. Or admit you just made it up because you want this to be true.
Lot of hatred towards F2P mmorpgs sprung from the mmorpg community. But I believe this hatred is really linked to fear. Why do you fear F2P mmorpg games? Why,,,,,,
I don't fear F2P MMOs, but I do not trust them. It is as simple as the difference in how the developer makes money. IN a subscription game the developers makes money by offering a game that interests me, period. In a F2P game my interest is not what the developer is after, they are after my needs in game - they make money by developing ways for me to need to spend money in the cash shop. If you look at it that simply the problem with F2P is obvious - pay to access a game that is interesting you or play a game and get nickel and dimed to be able to do the things you want, or to do them effectively.
A F2P game simply has no integrity - there is a disconnect between the developers incentives and the players (they want to design ways to get you to need so you spend, we want to play interesting games). A small example - consider NERFs. Everyone hates NERFs but sometimes they are a necessary evil - in a pay to play game the developer has the incentive to make changes in a way that benefits the whole of the game and to gingerly deal with concerns of player receiving changes, if they do it wrong then they will likely lose money from cancellations. Conversely, in a F2P game the incentive is the opposite. A developer of a F2P game can make money from arbitrary changes to game systems by nerf'ing items out of usefulness and introducing new useful items for sale, by changing classes or systems that require players to purchase respecs, etc. Just one possible example but I think it makes the point. The simple reality is that if you are not paying for the entirety of the game (i.e. a subscription) then developers are not in the business of developing a game they are in the business of developing ways to lure people in to buying items - I enjoy playing games not playing cash shops.
Now, all that said I do distinguish between F2P games and some of the emerging hybrid pay models (i.e. Guild Wars or even maybe DDO). Selling content is acceptable, so is selling account services, because those do not change the basic mechanic of developers directly making their money from the enjoyment gamers get playing their game. So while I avoid F2P games like the plague - do not even consider them in any way - a game that sells a box and then sells content packs or expansions every few months is fine so long as they are forgoing the normal subscription (or offering an all access type thing for a sub).
Most supposed F2P MMO's seem to actually cost more money to play than P2P ones lol.
Yeah they are free to download and play, but to even get close to the full experience the game has to offer adds up to ALOT more money than the P2p ones.
Plus the overall quality of most f2p games just plain suck IMO.
and again, stop putting GW in the same bag as F2P games. If you wanna discuss the B2P model, make another thread, and Im sure you'll be surprised with the amount of positive replies you'll get. B2P is a entirely different model, and people around here dont hate B2P games.
I certainly dont, when the 60 bucks one gotta pay upfront for the box means no cash shop.plus its a good way to limit the amount of underaged brats that will join the game.
oh btw, i read your link. maybe you arent aware that Rom is widely know to be a WoW-lite with a lot less content and a tremendously unbalanced cash shop that makes high spenders gods.
To be able to play on an average playfield you'd have to pay several times more than what it costs a WoW monthly subscription. free, eh?
Some people have been reported spending thousands of dollars in that game. the outcome? they one shot everyone on sight and are pretty much raid bosses to take down for the normal non-spender.
if thats the kind of environment where you play, i pity you. maybe one day you'll grow hair in your balls, get a job and have money to pay for a real MMORPG.
Comments
I am not afraid but I hate it!
I wish we could pay Time for Time, but for now it is monthly abonment.
F2P=Force 2 Play
P2P= Everybody are egual and start with the same chances (opposed to real life), content is extremely well done (DFO, Eve Online).
PS: I hate seeing item shop in P2P MMO such as WoW, that is one of the reason I quit playing, and thanks God for showing me the path to DFO.
Lol... try Star Trek Online (p2p), then try Allods Online (f2p) and try saying that again...
actually, i do like f2p games 'cause i'm not trying to compete, i just play them as co-op with my friends, and have nothing to pay except what i want to
i'm not paying a monthly fee if i'm not sure how much time i can (and will) dedicate to it... now, if monthly fees were actually counted as *game time* (that is, i buy a month worth of hours to spend on servers), it would be entirely different :P
Lol... try Star Trek Online (p2p), then try Allods Online (f2p) and try saying that again...
all rules have exceptions, anyway exceptions are just that, exceptions. good F2Ps,like albinos,are 1 out of every 17,000.
and anyway Allods might be a quality game, but its cash shop is the climax of greed and disproportionate unconvenience to the player. Hence your point still fails.
The current widespread F2P model deserve to die for the good of the industry.
Well i think the one you are promoting is not a F2P, in the topic players are nto afraid of F2P its just happen that they spend more on F2P rather than on P2P. and i believe if you dont pay for the guildwars you cannot play lol pay to play
Why I am afraid of F2P MMORPG's?
well...
1. More children with 1337 sp33k
2. More bots
3. More chinese farmers
4. Less GM support
5. Less updates
6. Did I say more freeloading kiddies?
For me it's because they're not really F2P. Oh sure, you can fire them up and do basic things, but to get to the real meat of the game, you have to pay fees here and there. Why not just make it a regular monthly subscription and offer the same things available to everyone as quest and gameplay rewards?
EDIT: @ Maji-- Precisely.
But look at Guild Wars. they are balanced. So your arguement is flawed here buddy
As plenty have said, Guild Wars isn't completely F2P. You have to buy it first. My comments were primarily aimed at the 2753676245214365 other games from companies no one has ever heard of that have item malls.
So, buddy, consider it an exception to the rule.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
This might fall around the same idea where P2P throw most of their content at the end game and leave the early and mid game alone. When was the last time any P2P MMO has updated any stage previous to the end game (and I seriously mean with any meaningful content, no BS small updates)? You can argue they force you to grind through an early and mid game before you get to the cool, more involving end game so you are forced to pay a longer subscription.
Why is it that you are forced to grind out dailies, reputation or instances in order to get the most up to date bad ass piece? To make you play longer. See P2P can easily fall around the same lines as F2P if not worse because hey guess what, F2P aren't the only one with cash shops anymore.
People are scared due to their own ignorance and see P2P as some shiny light to champion MMO industry (at least in the West). People want to cry that F2P is just out for money, but P2P do similar gimmicky things if not worse because the value of a monthly subscriptions is starting to cover less and less. People fear that they will not be able to control their own wallets and feel entitled to having to be the best in the quickest fashions.
P2P does that and eliminates any uncertainty or decision making and let's face it, the general population is lazy when it comes to any type of thinking or choice making. A monthly subscription is just so much easier and these same people are the same kinds that probably get suckered out of their money on a regular basis due to misconceptions and ignorance.
PS Who cares that the term F2P is used and its technically not "free? It's worse than trying to define marriage in America -_-
People should stop citing DDO as an example of a F2P that is "good".
It started off as a P2P, with the development time and relative level of quality that goes with that.
Having said that, it was not a particularly successful MMO, and its sub base had bottomed out to the point that the people running that game felt they were not losing much by going to that model. Many people felt it was too restricted, with too many instances, especially considering what fans of the IP expected.
DDO was never designed to go F2P, and I doubt the devs were happy it did.
Of course they are. Search the thread. There is a post about an article saying that DDO's revenue growth by 500% since it turns F2P and its sub based increased 2x (the rest of the increase by the item shop).
It is used as the poster child of how going F2P to be a successful business move. The developers are VERY pleased.
Sup, im brazilian and, god damnit i hate every single brazilian playing mmo's, you see, here im brazil, we have this "thing" that everyone has to get some advantage from everything, its like swimming with sharks, you see brazilian people, they are trying to get something of you (at least at games), they dont even try to speak the game language and they are always trying to find some bug to exploit, or working bots of anything that gives advantage (mostly in PvP games), when everything fails, they spend money to get that feeling that they are better then others and now they are finally taking advantage of people.
Hate then all, trust no brazilian, well you can trust the ones who dosent ask for anything, or dont tell they are brazilians.
This might fall around the same idea where P2P throw most of their content at the end game and leave the early and mid game alone. When was the last time any P2P MMO has updated any stage previous to the end game (and I seriously mean with any meaningful content, no BS small updates)? You can argue they force you to grind through an early and mid game before you get to the cool, more involving end game so you are forced to pay a longer subscription.
Why is it that you are forced to grind out dailies, reputation or instances in order to get the most up to date bad ass piece? To make you play longer. See P2P can easily fall around the same lines as F2P if not worse because hey guess what, F2P aren't the only one with cash shops anymore.
People are scared due to their own ignorance and see P2P as some shiny light to champion MMO industry (at least in the West). People want to cry that F2P is just out for money, but P2P do similar gimmicky things if not worse because the value of a monthly subscriptions is starting to cover less and less. People fear that they will not be able to control their own wallets and feel entitled to having to be the best in the quickest fashions.
P2P does that and eliminates any uncertainty or decision making and let's face it, the general population is lazy when it comes to any type of thinking or choice making. A monthly subscription is just so much easier and these same people are the same kinds that probably get suckered out of their money on a regular basis due to misconceptions and ignorance.
PS Who cares that the term F2P is used and its technically not "free? It's worse than trying to define marriage in America -_-
You're mostly talking about World of Warcraft. As far as WoW goes, I agree with you, the game is top heavy. Most P2P games that do have a cash shop, mostly offer useless cosmetic items, housing items and non-combat pets. Maybe a character respec or a name change. None of these things are required to progress and stay competitive in the game.
Most MMOs are designed with time sinks. You're expected to do repetitive tasks and are rewarded for them. However, F2P games are set up specifically so that you're enticed into buying their +XP potions or combat boost potions in order to minimize the grind. That is why they have more grind. You're expected to buy booster items that will minimize the grind. And if you refuse to buy those items, the grind hits you hard.
As you said, people are lazy and the cash shops offer a solution: Facing a 6 hour grind to next level? Buy a potion and cut the grind in half.
P2P games start everyone on equal footing. That equal footing is maintained through out the whole game and the player's skill and dedication to the game determines his or her progression. F2P games start everyone on equal footing and then offer a way for someone willing to pay to be a step or two above others. The players wallet determines his or her progression. Sure, it's possible to progress without using cash shop items but it may take twice as long and be twice as boring.
P2P games have their flaws... The whole genre does. These games are set up to be repetitive time sinks with positive reinforcement. BF Skinner would be proud. P2P games are better because all of the players, regardless of their financial status, are on equal footing.
This might fall around the same idea where P2P throw most of their content at the end game and leave the early and mid game alone. When was the last time any P2P MMO has updated any stage previous to the end game (and I seriously mean with any meaningful content, no BS small updates)? You can argue they force you to grind through an early and mid game before you get to the cool, more involving end game so you are forced to pay a longer subscription.
Why is it that you are forced to grind out dailies, reputation or instances in order to get the most up to date bad ass piece? To make you play longer. See P2P can easily fall around the same lines as F2P if not worse because hey guess what, F2P aren't the only one with cash shops anymore.
People are scared due to their own ignorance and see P2P as some shiny light to champion MMO industry (at least in the West). People want to cry that F2P is just out for money, but P2P do similar gimmicky things if not worse because the value of a monthly subscriptions is starting to cover less and less. People fear that they will not be able to control their own wallets and feel entitled to having to be the best in the quickest fashions.
P2P does that and eliminates any uncertainty or decision making and let's face it, the general population is lazy when it comes to any type of thinking or choice making. A monthly subscription is just so much easier and these same people are the same kinds that probably get suckered out of their money on a regular basis due to misconceptions and ignorance.
PS Who cares that the term F2P is used and its technically not "free? It's worse than trying to define marriage in America -_-
I was going to post, then found this, exactly what I was going for
They cripple the bird's wing, and then condemn it for not flying as fast as they.Malcolm X
good job ignoring people's top 2 reasons to hate F2P games:
1) being wildly outspended (then submissed) by others
2) game becoming a wasteland full of annoying kids, hackers, farmers.
[Mod Edit]
People are not scared of F2P games, they just happen to think they are a pathetic excuse for a game, more like a virtual place that let the door open for the scum of the earth, and where the wealthiest scums rule over the poor scums.
and you enjoy it? ummmmmmm......
so there are no scum in P2P games,no elitest bricks, no dumb 13 yos running around screwing the game experience for you,no hackers, no bots,you are quite the hypocrite arent you.
man I saw more scum in P2P games than all the F2P games I played compined together
They cripple the bird's wing, and then condemn it for not flying as fast as they.Malcolm X
I tried some, didn't like the idea that you could buy yourself success so I quit and started play more decent and fair games of higher quality. Community can be good in F2P games but they spend far too much money on their crap games and I honestly feel a bit sorry for them, especially the kids who regret it when they get wiser. That would be the only reason to fear them, they exploit kids who doesn't understand better.
Its like being bothered by a filthy junkie, you are never safe
it can happen to you in a bank...but if you go to a downtown dark alley at 3 am its more likely to find them.
F2P = downtown dark alley at 3 am
P2P= bank
and i doubt you saw more scum in P2P games, for the way you talk and think, Its quite obvious you are a 12 year old kid that has never had 1 dollar to pay for a sub. enjoy your F2P bullshit.
good job ignoring people's top 2 reasons to hate F2P games:
1) being wildly outspended (then submissed) by others
2) game becoming a wasteland full of annoying kids, hackers, farmers.
[Mod Edit]
People are not scared of F2P games, they just happen to think they are a pathetic excuse for a game, more like a virtual place that let the door open for the scum of the earth, and where the wealthiest scums rule over the poor scums.
and you enjoy it? ummmmmmm......
why does (1) matter in a pve game? I was playing DDO and i am sure there are people outspending me by a mile (cause i spend NOTHING). That does not detract me from my enjoyment of the quests.
Plus, very few percentage of F2P players pay so you are more likely to play with people without paying a cent than those who do.
Of course they are. Search the thread. There is a post about an article saying that DDO's revenue growth by 500% since it turns F2P and its sub based increased 2x (the rest of the increase by the item shop).
It is used as the poster child of how going F2P to be a successful business move. The developers are VERY pleased.
And yet, you say nothing about the main point, DDO is better than other F2Ps, BECAUSE it was not developed as a F2P. Had it been, it would have come out in much different shape. I guarantee it was not funded for development with that in mind.
As to how much their revenue has gone up, 500% revenue increase over a base of not much, is not much to brag about. Estimates for active subs before they went F2P ranged from 3-7k, so it not like they were risking much. In the MMO market, that's nothing, unless you are SOE and you have 5 games all doing that.
The developers are pleased they are getting anything. If you think that they are happy that their game was not good enough to compete in the P2P market, and going F2P was anything but a last ditch effort to break even before closure, I am sure they would disagree.
They are happy to get any revenue whatsoever... too much longer and they'd have been getting none.
Very few percentage of F2P players pay? Provide evidence of this please. If it is true, how can those companies earn their money? Please explain. This is so different from what I have experienced. Or admit you just made it up because you want this to be true.
F2P MMORPGs are getting better and better
I dont understand why you all avoid it.
http://www.runesofmagic.com/en/siegewars-patch.html
Just look at that.
GW2 is also around the corner.
I don't fear F2P MMOs, but I do not trust them. It is as simple as the difference in how the developer makes money. IN a subscription game the developers makes money by offering a game that interests me, period. In a F2P game my interest is not what the developer is after, they are after my needs in game - they make money by developing ways for me to need to spend money in the cash shop. If you look at it that simply the problem with F2P is obvious - pay to access a game that is interesting you or play a game and get nickel and dimed to be able to do the things you want, or to do them effectively.
A F2P game simply has no integrity - there is a disconnect between the developers incentives and the players (they want to design ways to get you to need so you spend, we want to play interesting games). A small example - consider NERFs. Everyone hates NERFs but sometimes they are a necessary evil - in a pay to play game the developer has the incentive to make changes in a way that benefits the whole of the game and to gingerly deal with concerns of player receiving changes, if they do it wrong then they will likely lose money from cancellations. Conversely, in a F2P game the incentive is the opposite. A developer of a F2P game can make money from arbitrary changes to game systems by nerf'ing items out of usefulness and introducing new useful items for sale, by changing classes or systems that require players to purchase respecs, etc. Just one possible example but I think it makes the point. The simple reality is that if you are not paying for the entirety of the game (i.e. a subscription) then developers are not in the business of developing a game they are in the business of developing ways to lure people in to buying items - I enjoy playing games not playing cash shops.
Now, all that said I do distinguish between F2P games and some of the emerging hybrid pay models (i.e. Guild Wars or even maybe DDO). Selling content is acceptable, so is selling account services, because those do not change the basic mechanic of developers directly making their money from the enjoyment gamers get playing their game. So while I avoid F2P games like the plague - do not even consider them in any way - a game that sells a box and then sells content packs or expansions every few months is fine so long as they are forgoing the normal subscription (or offering an all access type thing for a sub).
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Most supposed F2P MMO's seem to actually cost more money to play than P2P ones lol.
Yeah they are free to download and play, but to even get close to the full experience the game has to offer adds up to ALOT more money than the P2p ones.
Plus the overall quality of most f2p games just plain suck IMO.
and again, stop putting GW in the same bag as F2P games. If you wanna discuss the B2P model, make another thread, and Im sure you'll be surprised with the amount of positive replies you'll get. B2P is a entirely different model, and people around here dont hate B2P games.
I certainly dont, when the 60 bucks one gotta pay upfront for the box means no cash shop.plus its a good way to limit the amount of underaged brats that will join the game.
oh btw, i read your link. maybe you arent aware that Rom is widely know to be a WoW-lite with a lot less content and a tremendously unbalanced cash shop that makes high spenders gods.
To be able to play on an average playfield you'd have to pay several times more than what it costs a WoW monthly subscription. free, eh?
Some people have been reported spending thousands of dollars in that game. the outcome? they one shot everyone on sight and are pretty much raid bosses to take down for the normal non-spender.
if thats the kind of environment where you play, i pity you. maybe one day you'll grow hair in your balls, get a job and have money to pay for a real MMORPG.
Afraid? I think the OP is having a little trouble with picking out the correct phrasing.
Oh dear God. The OPs typing and sig are just plain painful. No, just no.
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