It has nothing to do with fear for me. It has everything to do with the fact that I simply don't enjoy games with RMT or Item malls. They kill the spirit of the game for me to the point where the game is not even enjoyable. F2P games are ridden with RMT and Item Mall influence, making them not so free, especially when developers intentionally skew the game balance in a way which makes use of the item mall practically mandatory in order to enjoy playing the game.
If other people enjoy playing F2P games with item malls and RMT, good for them, I have no problem with that. For me however, F2P due to item malls and RMT are simply not even considered a choice to me, so I simply avoid them.
I don't "fear" f2p games, however....I refuse to play them as a PRIMARY game of recreation because, ironically....they COST too damn much to PLAY!
Free to play games are a beautiful example of psychologically manipulative marketing. They bank on you rationalizing your expenditures because, after all....the game is "FREE." Pfft. No. The game is "free" if you don't really want to sink your teeth into it and play on the same level with everyone else. It's "free" if you never buy an xp pot (of course they make leveling a HORRIBLE grind without them), if you never buy those potions that eliminate that horrifying death de-buff (I'm looking at YOU, Allods), you know....the one that essentially makes playing POINTLESS until it goes away and it's NOT like 10 minutes we're talking about here.
Free to play games...are not REALLY free if you want to play them for enjoyment. That is why....I don't play them other than to check them out. I play ALMOST every game that is released, at least for a couple of weeks, because I enjoy seeing what developers are making out there. But it is highly unlikely that I will ever choose a free to play game as my "main."
But look at Guild Wars. they are balanced. So your arguement is flawed here buddy
Guild Wars is not an MMO. The devs have stated this themselves, and players still continue to bring the game into discussions.
Guild Wars is ALSO not free to play. You have to pay for the client AND for the expansions. So...it's neither an MMO, NOR free to play. It doesn't have a recurring MONTHLY fee. That doesn't make it "free."
Guild Wars isn't F2P, it would be the same as calling EVERY single-player game out there F2P too. You have to purchase the campaign and expansion. It just doesn't feature a monthly fee. It doesn't coat itself under the "play for free forever" marketing bait.
And sorry, but considering only 10-20% of the player base in a F2P game ever spends a cent in the item mall, it means this minority will have to spend quite above the average monthly fee in order to make the game profitable, considering both games feature the same budget, which is not true for most F2P MMOs as they are low budget multiple year-old Asian imports.
It isn't fear, it's simply not worth it. And no, I don't feel like playing for free and being crippled or face constantly the desire to purchase virtual stuff that can cost way more than a monthly fee. See Atlantica's boxes that cost $10 each and the hidden $15 monthly fee for the basic licenses for basic gameplay, RoM's costs in the hundreds of dollars to be competitive, Allods' costs we heard so much discussion about already, and I guess these are the "flagships" of the F2P MMO industry.
Oh yeah, there's also DDO but I haven't experienced it yet to comment on its value when compared to P2Ps.
And the reason people hate F2P is simply because they dont follow the "everyone gets an equal chance at the game rule", which you get with a monthly fee
But does everyone really get an equal chance with P2P games? I remember brand new toons in SWG running around in the top notch armor and buffed to the max (just so they could wear it) all provided for by their guilds. OK, maybe it's a 'you get what you pick' type thing but since ALL guilds didn't do it ......
I have 2 F2p games on my computer; DDO (which maybe should be in a seperate category since it started P2p) and Wild West Online: Gunfighter.
Neither are games I'd play 8 hours a day, every day but both are fun to play whenever I want to. For that reason alone F2p works.
Also for these 2 I've never felt I needed to buy anything to be competitive with other players.
I don't think that people fear F2P MMOs. People are just reluctant to get attached to a game and later find out that they have to spend a X amount of money just to enjoy it fully. Most F2P games are set up in such a way so that you have to spend a lot of money to stay competitive and progress at a reasonable rate. Most are also set up to be grindy specifically to entice you into buying those +XP potions so that you can progress faster.
In a subscription based game, you pay for $15 and you know that you have access to the same exact content as every one else. The only thing that separates you and the guy decked out in all best gear is the fact that he dedicated time to attain that gear and you didn't. Obviously, in the real world, not everyone has the ability to dedicate enough time to get the same gear but the option is always there, if you choose. We're all on equal footing, if you will. In a F2P game, you just know that the guy wearing the best gear spent a few hundred dollars to get it.
Besides the fact that most of these F2P MMOs, especially the Asian ones, look and feel the same.
Except for DDO, which has become a F2P, I have not played a F2p since the MUD days, that was worth the time.
I think with P2P, the expectations are for a higher quality product, and most developers realize this. Whether they deliver is another question.
When a F2P is the same crappy shallow grinder we have seen 50 times before, people excuse it because it is "F2P" whether or not it really is, depending on the importance of the cash shop.
When a P2P is a similar crappy, shallow game quality, people get really upset, because they had to pay to make that discovery, and the expectation is that if something costs $50, it is worth that. When it isn't, people speak up (STO being the current case in point).
I don't like cash shops. I don't like the Pay to Win reality of the cash shops in several of the F2Ps that I have (briefly) played before.
Since P2P doesn't generally have that, I tend to play those.
Lot of hatred towards F2P mmorpgs sprung from the mmorpg community. But I believe this hatred is really linked to fear. Why do you fear F2P mmorpg games? Why,,,,,,
You are literally a bit crazy if you think it is fear.
There is no one waking up in a cold sweat at night after having a f2p nightmare.
Many of us hate the model, and refuse to play it. I don't want to have to keep spending small amounts of money here and there that add up to or exceed a monthly fee. I don't want those who spend more to be better. I don't want to see the store continue to expand with more crap I have to keep buying to be competitive.
What I want is for me, and everyone else playing the game, to pay our monthly fee that we all pay the same amount and all have the same footing in the world. That is fun to me and that is what I will play.
Perhaps I should ask (since you randomly assumed everyone was afraid of f2p, I will randomly assume about you) why you are so cheap as to need a game that you have the possibility to play for small amounts of money, when a month of sub-based MMO is cheaper then almost every other form of entertainment that exists?
Lot of hatred towards F2P mmorpgs sprung from the mmorpg community. But I believe this hatred is really linked to fear. Why do you fear F2P mmorpg games? Why,,,,,,
For me it's because they're not really F2P. Oh sure, you can fire them up and do basic things, but to get to the real meat of the game, you have to pay fees here and there. Why not just make it a regular monthly subscription and offer the same things available to everyone as quest and gameplay rewards?
EDIT: @ Maji-- Precisely.
Because that allows us to jump around in many games without going to the "meat"?
Take DDO as an example. It is great to be able to play a few hrs here and there and I am a long way to hit L4 .. meaning I haven't been paying a dime so far. I don't expect to play enough to ever pay and there are other F2P games out there.
And the reason people hate F2P is simply because they dont follow the "everyone gets an equal chance at the game rule", which you get with a monthly fee
But does everyone really get an equal chance with P2P games? I remember brand new toons in SWG running around in the top notch armor and buffed to the max (just so they could wear it) all provided for by their guilds. OK, maybe it's a 'you get what you pick' type thing but since ALL guilds didn't do it ......
I have 2 F2p games on my computer; DDO (which maybe should be in a seperate category since it started P2p) and Wild West Online: Gunfighter.
Neither are games I'd play 8 hours a day, every day but both are fun to play whenever I want to. For that reason alone F2p works.
Also for these 2 I've never felt I needed to buy anything to be competitive with other players.
There are games you will play 8 hrs a day? You seriously need a life. I don't play my regular MMO (WOW) more than 1 or 2 hrs a day (may be except weekends) and F2P games like DDO are at least a few hours here and there over the weekend.
Originally posted by nariusseldon There are games you will play 8 hrs a day? You seriously need a life.
LOL! That's called hyperbole :-). No I don't play any game that much. Not only won't my eyes take it, but as a working father of 2 boys still at home there's no way I could ever cut that much time out of my day.
My point being, there aregamesthat I play enough to be worth a month sub fee. As much as I like DDO, I last played in Dec and then played again this past Saturday. Would it have been worth $45.00 for 4 hours of play? No. Now for my current game (AoC) I did 4 hours of play just this week so far and will play 6, maybe 7 hours over the weekend. That kind of time is worth $15.00 a month.
Lot of hatred towards F2P mmorpgs sprung from the mmorpg community. But I believe this hatred is really linked to fear. Why do you fear F2P mmorpg games? Why,,,,,,
Simple. I don't like shopping. I like to pay, and then forget about money while I play a game.
And the reason people hate F2P is simply because they dont follow the "everyone gets an equal chance at the game rule", which you get with a monthly fee
But does everyone really get an equal chance with P2P games? I remember brand new toons in SWG running around in the top notch armor and buffed to the max (just so they could wear it) all provided for by their guilds. OK, maybe it's a 'you get what you pick' type thing but since ALL guilds didn't do it ......
I have 2 F2p games on my computer; DDO (which maybe should be in a seperate category since it started P2p) and Wild West Online: Gunfighter.
Neither are games I'd play 8 hours a day, every day but both are fun to play whenever I want to. For that reason alone F2p works.
Also for these 2 I've never felt I needed to buy anything to be competitive with other players.
There are games you will play 8 hrs a day? You seriously need a life. I don't play my regular MMO (WOW) more than 1 or 2 hrs a day (may be except weekends) and F2P games like DDO are at least a few hours here and there over the weekend.
You just fully projected your own insecurities over a hyperbole. Grats, loser.
As for the topic itself, we could make quite a lot of speculation over why people here fear (and all you dumbasses taking the word fear literally should stop and think for a moment) the F2P model so much, OP. I think that, first of all, it's because it's a predominantly Asian model, and I think we've all seen how racist many a gamer can be in these forums; equating F2P with Asian with 'different' and all sorts of stereotypes about asian game forms and the people who play them comes off pretty easily. Just like the guy above, who took some other dude's hyperbole at base value and instead of shrugging and moving on with his own life he instantly clicked REPLY to try to convince himself he's not a total loser. Same bloody thing. Second of all, we could say that it stems from what many others have already expressed here: that they would need to spend more money to be "competitive". I don't know if you went through them or not, but there were these 'huge' outrages over Cryptic implementing stores for Champions and Star Trek. People cancelling pre-orders, droning on and on in the forums about how terrible Cryptic was and whatnot, just because there was to be a store to buy shit from. The argument against it was solid and I agreed with it (if you're gonna add a store then charge less in your sub, etc.) but it certainly developed into full negation even when Cryptic once and again assured the audience that they would only sell items that were not game-breaking. That's fear for you (totally irrational); fear that the game would not be what you expected, that you wouldn't hold up if you didn't shed out any extra cash, etc. etc, and lots of people plainly refused to listen to whatever Cryptic had to say and instantly went into perpetual negation of anything Champions. It was really something to watch.
I don't know if there's a 'third of all', but it was an interesting question.
I think Nebless is on to something there, though. P2P (as much as F2P), unless you're there from Day 1 with everyone else, presents an illusion of equal grounds. If you enter the game in day 2, there's already people with a clear advantage, and even when you reach the level cap there's always in-game money and items to keep the hierarchy alive. Then there's the usual class problem, in which the healer is inevitably gimped for combat, and all those little mechanics we're all familiar with and which break the game balance and therefore the supposed equal grounds. In any case, what the super duped guy in F2P invested in money to be 'good', the super duped guy in P2P invested in time. For example, put any guy in WoW that plays only casually against a hardcore cancel-my-date-for-a-raid dude of the same level and it's practically obvious who's gonna win. If that casual guy wants to turn in some money, though, he could have the same things the hardcore one has and level the playing field to skill. Kinda just thinking out loud here, and I'm sure many people have already come up with this argument, but if we take that example, we could say F2P actually offers more of an equal ground than P2P, simply because time isn't a commodity one can earn and come up with to invest on a game while money certainly is. What do you think?
Fear? Hardly the appropriate word. Distaste is far better for the following reasons.
1) Generally lower production quality than P2P's. (there are exceptions of course)
2) Convoluted processes to sign up for an account and install the game.
3) Cash shops. Pay to Win is a bad plan. We know they have to make money, but if designed properly a player should be able to purchase everything he'd ever need for about 15 bucks a month, instead of the thousands it can actually cost.
4) Grinding. Most have far too much grind, and no real content worth fighting for, especially in PVP.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
f2p is a market bigger then p2p .just china alone have 100 of million playing them .true this happened in china because of unforseen circomstance like console very shy of selling in china because of pirate ,hacker etc at start same for p2p gaame add to that the fact that china goverment isnt easy to understand (*ask wow for fun how they feel about china,or google for that mather and you end up with a paradise place for f2p game .any that think there arent 100 of million playing f2p game in china didnt research the subject that population is 1300 million about the same in india. so those 2 country alone count for 2600 million people.so f2p will gain in popularity .its the futur everywhere but america and soon game maker wont bother to try to make their game the way american want because it will be a market to small to be worth the trouble check eq1 if it was f2p do you think it would fare so low .of caurse not ,there are thousand worst title that fare better financially then eq1.as wow and facebook showed us.people bring in more people its called the domino effect sucky or good it doesnt mather if player are there more player will be there in the end . i think the only reason f2p isnt successfull really in other part of the world like cana or usa is one reason most player would rater duke it out vs the asia on the asia server as long as the copy they use is written in english can it be done yes lot of title use a version of international server every player play on the same bunch of server . often they use some kind of booster to help connection but that it.the local server is bound to fail because the vast amount of player are from asia.i say use your existing server in asia just send me an english copy that will work on your chinese server and ill be happy to go duke it out against million of player from shangai.instead of being 100 in america in the same game!
Dr. I've been holding this in for a long long time but, please for the love of all creation PROOF READ WHAT YOU TYPE! If english is not your first language thats fine but SERIOUSLY get a spell checker. Its not hard.
The average F2P is bad and the F2P market is spammed with poorly-designed games.
The average P2P is average, and most of the best MMORPGs on the market are P2P.
I may feel F2P is where the future is for MMORPGs (and gaming as a whole) but the simple fact remains that people are building an association based on the fact that most F2Ps suck.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
The average F2P is bad and the F2P market is spammed with poorly-designed games. The average P2P is average, and most of the best MMORPGs on the market are P2P.
I may feel F2P is where the future is for MMORPGs (and gaming as a whole) but the simple fact remains that people are building an association based on the fact that most F2Ps suck.
average f2p player in english country never went further then beta!
The average F2P is bad and the F2P market is spammed with poorly-designed games. The average P2P is average, and most of the best MMORPGs on the market are P2P.
I may feel F2P is where the future is for MMORPGs (and gaming as a whole) but the simple fact remains that people are building an association based on the fact that most F2Ps suck.
average f2p player in english country never went further then beta!
I'm not talking about players, but game quality.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I think it's because most of us like to budget and want our costs known upfront and regular.it make sit much easier to plan and know what income you have free for other things,either luxuries or investment.You do not get that with f2p games,the item mall costs frequently change,the times available frequently change and the games themselves frequently change based on the items available and changes to the game to make said items desirable to the user base.
As Others have stated it is also the case that to date f2p games have been much lower quality than p2p games.I would also add that they are also much more badly run.There are of course exceptions for example I found Runes of Magic and Requiem adequately run if not quite up to the production values of P2P games.
Another point of contention in my opinion is that the f2p model encourages the developers to add content not to build the game and make it enjoyable or to earn money from satisfied customers,but to increase item mall purchases.Indeed in many games the majority of the development seems to go into the Item mall and not the game itself.Though this seems to be improving and balancing out more very recently.
Item malls are the most exploitative business mechanisms in MMOs today.Not that they have to become exploitative but they are the most open to becoming so and in the past have become so.As I stated earlier prices in an item mall can be changed at any time.items cna be added and subtracted at any time and mechanics int he game can be changed to make such items necessities not options at any time in this model.
Now to the argument of 100s of millions of people playing f2p games in China and Asia as justification that we should all accept and love such a business model,well unitll recently that was practically the only business model they knew.Now they have their version of P2P in the pay per hour/buying time business model(something I wouldn't mind seeing here) which has proved just as popular and also has 100s of millions of players.So it is not a good argument IMO.
Lot of hatred towards F2P mmorpgs sprung from the mmorpg community. But I believe this hatred is really linked to fear. Why do you fear F2P mmorpg games? Why,,,,,,
I do not think people are afraid of F2P games.
I think people played them and realized that most of them are garbage and you are better off in a P2P game.
“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”
- quality: A p2p is mostly a lot better in quality and content than a f2p.
- the people, a f2p game is accessible for everyone, and that's a problem for me. You just find more retards in f2p mmo's.
- I see a lot more botting/hacking in f2p mmo's
- a lot more 'goldseller'-spam
- little to no support, if you have a problem you're on your own in a f2p. The support in a p2p game is usually better.
-(edit) oh and another thing, in a lot of f2p games the game is actually unbalanced due to the cashshop. How bigger your wallet how better you will be ingame. Some people just can't afford that. A p2p game is a lot more balanced.
maby this will change in the future, but f2p games have still a long way to go before they are just as good as a p2p game.
------------------------------------------------------------------- waiting for ... nothing..
Originally posted by Dibdabs Originally posted by knighthonor Lot of hatred towards F2P mmorpgs sprung from the mmorpg community. But I believe this hatred is really linked to fear.
LMAO - fear! :D Amusing.... No, there's a lot of hate because, barring a few exceptions, they are all style and no substance, and rely on the grind mentality, rather than depth and replayability, to keep a certain type of player interested.
EXACTLY. What ^^ said. I find FTPs non immersive, grindy, boring, pretty looking but overall shallow in every aspect. Give me a PTP(most) any day and I'll point out why I like it better than any named FTP. And it usually comes down to immersion and the depth of the gameplay available.
For those who like to say "It works in Asia" you do realize the cultural difference right?
There are many things that work well/sell well in Asia that will never do as well in the US, and vice versa.
So using that as the reason on why we should all love and play f2p games is ridiculous. The US keeps proving that there are more people will to pay a sub fee MMO then spend money in cash shops. It doesn't mean this can't change in the future but you also can't force it to change either. People have their preferences.
But hey we should all do all of our gaming in internet cafes for 12 hours at a time instead of from the comfrot of our own home whenever we want to, since we should be like Asia.
Comments
It has nothing to do with fear for me. It has everything to do with the fact that I simply don't enjoy games with RMT or Item malls. They kill the spirit of the game for me to the point where the game is not even enjoyable. F2P games are ridden with RMT and Item Mall influence, making them not so free, especially when developers intentionally skew the game balance in a way which makes use of the item mall practically mandatory in order to enjoy playing the game.
If other people enjoy playing F2P games with item malls and RMT, good for them, I have no problem with that. For me however, F2P due to item malls and RMT are simply not even considered a choice to me, so I simply avoid them.
My first F2P was Allods, Nuff said.
I don't "fear" f2p games, however....I refuse to play them as a PRIMARY game of recreation because, ironically....they COST too damn much to PLAY!
Free to play games are a beautiful example of psychologically manipulative marketing. They bank on you rationalizing your expenditures because, after all....the game is "FREE." Pfft. No. The game is "free" if you don't really want to sink your teeth into it and play on the same level with everyone else. It's "free" if you never buy an xp pot (of course they make leveling a HORRIBLE grind without them), if you never buy those potions that eliminate that horrifying death de-buff (I'm looking at YOU, Allods), you know....the one that essentially makes playing POINTLESS until it goes away and it's NOT like 10 minutes we're talking about here.
Free to play games...are not REALLY free if you want to play them for enjoyment. That is why....I don't play them other than to check them out. I play ALMOST every game that is released, at least for a couple of weeks, because I enjoy seeing what developers are making out there. But it is highly unlikely that I will ever choose a free to play game as my "main."
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Guild Wars is not an MMO. The devs have stated this themselves, and players still continue to bring the game into discussions.
Guild Wars is ALSO not free to play. You have to pay for the client AND for the expansions. So...it's neither an MMO, NOR free to play. It doesn't have a recurring MONTHLY fee. That doesn't make it "free."
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Guild Wars isn't F2P, it would be the same as calling EVERY single-player game out there F2P too. You have to purchase the campaign and expansion. It just doesn't feature a monthly fee. It doesn't coat itself under the "play for free forever" marketing bait.
And sorry, but considering only 10-20% of the player base in a F2P game ever spends a cent in the item mall, it means this minority will have to spend quite above the average monthly fee in order to make the game profitable, considering both games feature the same budget, which is not true for most F2P MMOs as they are low budget multiple year-old Asian imports.
It isn't fear, it's simply not worth it. And no, I don't feel like playing for free and being crippled or face constantly the desire to purchase virtual stuff that can cost way more than a monthly fee. See Atlantica's boxes that cost $10 each and the hidden $15 monthly fee for the basic licenses for basic gameplay, RoM's costs in the hundreds of dollars to be competitive, Allods' costs we heard so much discussion about already, and I guess these are the "flagships" of the F2P MMO industry.
Oh yeah, there's also DDO but I haven't experienced it yet to comment on its value when compared to P2Ps.
But does everyone really get an equal chance with P2P games? I remember brand new toons in SWG running around in the top notch armor and buffed to the max (just so they could wear it) all provided for by their guilds. OK, maybe it's a 'you get what you pick' type thing but since ALL guilds didn't do it ......
I have 2 F2p games on my computer; DDO (which maybe should be in a seperate category since it started P2p) and Wild West Online: Gunfighter.
Neither are games I'd play 8 hours a day, every day but both are fun to play whenever I want to. For that reason alone F2p works.
Also for these 2 I've never felt I needed to buy anything to be competitive with other players.
SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter
I don't think that people fear F2P MMOs. People are just reluctant to get attached to a game and later find out that they have to spend a X amount of money just to enjoy it fully. Most F2P games are set up in such a way so that you have to spend a lot of money to stay competitive and progress at a reasonable rate. Most are also set up to be grindy specifically to entice you into buying those +XP potions so that you can progress faster.
In a subscription based game, you pay for $15 and you know that you have access to the same exact content as every one else. The only thing that separates you and the guy decked out in all best gear is the fact that he dedicated time to attain that gear and you didn't. Obviously, in the real world, not everyone has the ability to dedicate enough time to get the same gear but the option is always there, if you choose. We're all on equal footing, if you will. In a F2P game, you just know that the guy wearing the best gear spent a few hundred dollars to get it.
Besides the fact that most of these F2P MMOs, especially the Asian ones, look and feel the same.
Except for DDO, which has become a F2P, I have not played a F2p since the MUD days, that was worth the time.
I think with P2P, the expectations are for a higher quality product, and most developers realize this. Whether they deliver is another question.
When a F2P is the same crappy shallow grinder we have seen 50 times before, people excuse it because it is "F2P" whether or not it really is, depending on the importance of the cash shop.
When a P2P is a similar crappy, shallow game quality, people get really upset, because they had to pay to make that discovery, and the expectation is that if something costs $50, it is worth that. When it isn't, people speak up (STO being the current case in point).
I don't like cash shops. I don't like the Pay to Win reality of the cash shops in several of the F2Ps that I have (briefly) played before.
Since P2P doesn't generally have that, I tend to play those.
You are literally a bit crazy if you think it is fear.
There is no one waking up in a cold sweat at night after having a f2p nightmare.
Many of us hate the model, and refuse to play it. I don't want to have to keep spending small amounts of money here and there that add up to or exceed a monthly fee. I don't want those who spend more to be better. I don't want to see the store continue to expand with more crap I have to keep buying to be competitive.
What I want is for me, and everyone else playing the game, to pay our monthly fee that we all pay the same amount and all have the same footing in the world. That is fun to me and that is what I will play.
Perhaps I should ask (since you randomly assumed everyone was afraid of f2p, I will randomly assume about you) why you are so cheap as to need a game that you have the possibility to play for small amounts of money, when a month of sub-based MMO is cheaper then almost every other form of entertainment that exists?
For me it's because they're not really F2P. Oh sure, you can fire them up and do basic things, but to get to the real meat of the game, you have to pay fees here and there. Why not just make it a regular monthly subscription and offer the same things available to everyone as quest and gameplay rewards?
EDIT: @ Maji-- Precisely.
Because that allows us to jump around in many games without going to the "meat"?
Take DDO as an example. It is great to be able to play a few hrs here and there and I am a long way to hit L4 .. meaning I haven't been paying a dime so far. I don't expect to play enough to ever pay and there are other F2P games out there.
But does everyone really get an equal chance with P2P games? I remember brand new toons in SWG running around in the top notch armor and buffed to the max (just so they could wear it) all provided for by their guilds. OK, maybe it's a 'you get what you pick' type thing but since ALL guilds didn't do it ......
I have 2 F2p games on my computer; DDO (which maybe should be in a seperate category since it started P2p) and Wild West Online: Gunfighter.
Neither are games I'd play 8 hours a day, every day but both are fun to play whenever I want to. For that reason alone F2p works.
Also for these 2 I've never felt I needed to buy anything to be competitive with other players.
There are games you will play 8 hrs a day? You seriously need a life. I don't play my regular MMO (WOW) more than 1 or 2 hrs a day (may be except weekends) and F2P games like DDO are at least a few hours here and there over the weekend.
LOL! That's called hyperbole :-). No I don't play any game that much. Not only won't my eyes take it, but as a working father of 2 boys still at home there's no way I could ever cut that much time out of my day.
My point being, there are games that I play enough to be worth a month sub fee. As much as I like DDO, I last played in Dec and then played again this past Saturday. Would it have been worth $45.00 for 4 hours of play? No. Now for my current game (AoC) I did 4 hours of play just this week so far and will play 6, maybe 7 hours over the weekend. That kind of time is worth $15.00 a month.
SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter
Simple. I don't like shopping. I like to pay, and then forget about money while I play a game.
P2win is all about shopping.
But does everyone really get an equal chance with P2P games? I remember brand new toons in SWG running around in the top notch armor and buffed to the max (just so they could wear it) all provided for by their guilds. OK, maybe it's a 'you get what you pick' type thing but since ALL guilds didn't do it ......
I have 2 F2p games on my computer; DDO (which maybe should be in a seperate category since it started P2p) and Wild West Online: Gunfighter.
Neither are games I'd play 8 hours a day, every day but both are fun to play whenever I want to. For that reason alone F2p works.
Also for these 2 I've never felt I needed to buy anything to be competitive with other players.
There are games you will play 8 hrs a day? You seriously need a life. I don't play my regular MMO (WOW) more than 1 or 2 hrs a day (may be except weekends) and F2P games like DDO are at least a few hours here and there over the weekend.
You just fully projected your own insecurities over a hyperbole. Grats, loser.
As for the topic itself, we could make quite a lot of speculation over why people here fear (and all you dumbasses taking the word fear literally should stop and think for a moment) the F2P model so much, OP. I think that, first of all, it's because it's a predominantly Asian model, and I think we've all seen how racist many a gamer can be in these forums; equating F2P with Asian with 'different' and all sorts of stereotypes about asian game forms and the people who play them comes off pretty easily. Just like the guy above, who took some other dude's hyperbole at base value and instead of shrugging and moving on with his own life he instantly clicked REPLY to try to convince himself he's not a total loser. Same bloody thing. Second of all, we could say that it stems from what many others have already expressed here: that they would need to spend more money to be "competitive". I don't know if you went through them or not, but there were these 'huge' outrages over Cryptic implementing stores for Champions and Star Trek. People cancelling pre-orders, droning on and on in the forums about how terrible Cryptic was and whatnot, just because there was to be a store to buy shit from. The argument against it was solid and I agreed with it (if you're gonna add a store then charge less in your sub, etc.) but it certainly developed into full negation even when Cryptic once and again assured the audience that they would only sell items that were not game-breaking. That's fear for you (totally irrational); fear that the game would not be what you expected, that you wouldn't hold up if you didn't shed out any extra cash, etc. etc, and lots of people plainly refused to listen to whatever Cryptic had to say and instantly went into perpetual negation of anything Champions. It was really something to watch.
I don't know if there's a 'third of all', but it was an interesting question.
I think Nebless is on to something there, though. P2P (as much as F2P), unless you're there from Day 1 with everyone else, presents an illusion of equal grounds. If you enter the game in day 2, there's already people with a clear advantage, and even when you reach the level cap there's always in-game money and items to keep the hierarchy alive. Then there's the usual class problem, in which the healer is inevitably gimped for combat, and all those little mechanics we're all familiar with and which break the game balance and therefore the supposed equal grounds. In any case, what the super duped guy in F2P invested in money to be 'good', the super duped guy in P2P invested in time. For example, put any guy in WoW that plays only casually against a hardcore cancel-my-date-for-a-raid dude of the same level and it's practically obvious who's gonna win. If that casual guy wants to turn in some money, though, he could have the same things the hardcore one has and level the playing field to skill. Kinda just thinking out loud here, and I'm sure many people have already come up with this argument, but if we take that example, we could say F2P actually offers more of an equal ground than P2P, simply because time isn't a commodity one can earn and come up with to invest on a game while money certainly is. What do you think?
Fear? Hardly the appropriate word. Distaste is far better for the following reasons.
1) Generally lower production quality than P2P's. (there are exceptions of course)
2) Convoluted processes to sign up for an account and install the game.
3) Cash shops. Pay to Win is a bad plan. We know they have to make money, but if designed properly a player should be able to purchase everything he'd ever need for about 15 bucks a month, instead of the thousands it can actually cost.
4) Grinding. Most have far too much grind, and no real content worth fighting for, especially in PVP.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Dr. I've been holding this in for a long long time but, please for the love of all creation PROOF READ WHAT YOU TYPE! If english is not your first language thats fine but SERIOUSLY get a spell checker. Its not hard.
Dem hibbies! Dey be wrong!
It's simple.
I may feel F2P is where the future is for MMORPGs (and gaming as a whole) but the simple fact remains that people are building an association based on the fact that most F2Ps suck.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
average f2p player in english country never went further then beta!
average f2p player in english country never went further then beta!
I'm not talking about players, but game quality.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I think it's because most of us like to budget and want our costs known upfront and regular.it make sit much easier to plan and know what income you have free for other things,either luxuries or investment.You do not get that with f2p games,the item mall costs frequently change,the times available frequently change and the games themselves frequently change based on the items available and changes to the game to make said items desirable to the user base.
As Others have stated it is also the case that to date f2p games have been much lower quality than p2p games.I would also add that they are also much more badly run.There are of course exceptions for example I found Runes of Magic and Requiem adequately run if not quite up to the production values of P2P games.
Another point of contention in my opinion is that the f2p model encourages the developers to add content not to build the game and make it enjoyable or to earn money from satisfied customers,but to increase item mall purchases.Indeed in many games the majority of the development seems to go into the Item mall and not the game itself.Though this seems to be improving and balancing out more very recently.
Item malls are the most exploitative business mechanisms in MMOs today.Not that they have to become exploitative but they are the most open to becoming so and in the past have become so.As I stated earlier prices in an item mall can be changed at any time.items cna be added and subtracted at any time and mechanics int he game can be changed to make such items necessities not options at any time in this model.
Now to the argument of 100s of millions of people playing f2p games in China and Asia as justification that we should all accept and love such a business model,well unitll recently that was practically the only business model they knew.Now they have their version of P2P in the pay per hour/buying time business model(something I wouldn't mind seeing here) which has proved just as popular and also has 100s of millions of players.So it is not a good argument IMO.
I am afraid of the Cash Shops, and by the players who buy from them.
I do not think people are afraid of F2P games.
I think people played them and realized that most of them are garbage and you are better off in a P2P game.
--John Ruskin
- quality: A p2p is mostly a lot better in quality and content than a f2p.
- the people, a f2p game is accessible for everyone, and that's a problem for me. You just find more retards in f2p mmo's.
- I see a lot more botting/hacking in f2p mmo's
- a lot more 'goldseller'-spam
- little to no support, if you have a problem you're on your own in a f2p. The support in a p2p game is usually better.
-(edit) oh and another thing, in a lot of f2p games the game is actually unbalanced due to the cashshop. How bigger your wallet how better you will be ingame. Some people just can't afford that. A p2p game is a lot more balanced.
maby this will change in the future, but f2p games have still a long way to go before they are just as good as a p2p game.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
waiting for ... nothing..
EXACTLY. What ^^ said. I find FTPs non immersive, grindy, boring, pretty looking but overall shallow in every aspect. Give me a PTP(most) any day and I'll point out why I like it better than any named FTP. And it usually comes down to immersion and the depth of the gameplay available.
For those who like to say "It works in Asia" you do realize the cultural difference right?
There are many things that work well/sell well in Asia that will never do as well in the US, and vice versa.
So using that as the reason on why we should all love and play f2p games is ridiculous. The US keeps proving that there are more people will to pay a sub fee MMO then spend money in cash shops. It doesn't mean this can't change in the future but you also can't force it to change either. People have their preferences.
But hey we should all do all of our gaming in internet cafes for 12 hours at a time instead of from the comfrot of our own home whenever we want to, since we should be like Asia.