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I am 100% Totally against Harsh Death Penalty

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  • chrisjba83chrisjba83 Member Posts: 18

    I also think it depends on the game death penalties fit some games really good. In WoW though i thought the short run back was just right since it's more of a fast paced game.

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Member CommonPosts: 2,898
    Originally posted by Toquio3

    Originally posted by sn0wblind00


    Going to keep this simple.  The reward is much greater when the risk is there.  Personally I enjoy challenges in videogames.  i dont know of any current games that have a 'harsh' death penalty, but I remember the risk that old EQ players used to take.

     

    The challenge is in the fight, not in what happens after the fight is over.

    This is true regardless of death penalty. Death penalty has nothing to do with gameplay, it's all about mindset. Unless its a PvP game, then a death penalty is VERY important to gameplay. 

  • Nightbringe1Nightbringe1 Member UncommonPosts: 1,335
    Originally posted by Ilvaldyr


    I'm also 100% against harsh death penalties.
    I like games to be challenging enough that I can fail, but I don't want to spend half of my time recouperating my losses. I have sparse enough gaming hours as it is.
    Failing to accomplish something that I spent an hour attempting is enough of a penalty for me.

     

    If you approach the tasks properly prepared, and are careful in the execution, you should not fail.

    If you approach an encounter poorly prepared in a haphazard fashion, you deserve to be spanked a little.

    Those repeated spankings from being unprepared or zerging encourage you to grow and mature in your abilities.

    Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
    Benjamin Franklin

  • RavanosRavanos Member Posts: 897
    Originally posted by Anthur


    @OP You should play some poker with real money and then only using chips without any real value backing them up. Rules are the same. But I assure you the game and how you play will be completely different.
     


     

    exactly. to me it sounds like most people would play a game like god of war 3 if "cheat mode" was enabled where you had infinite life. maybe thats where all games are going now, since apparently fun >everything else and dying/losing is not fun they should remove the chances of dying or losing.

    god of war ... give players infinite health

    Call of Duty ... infinite health and infinite ammo

    Madden (or any other sports games) if the computer scores the player gets the equal amount of points

    Mario ... why should enemies kill you, "star" mode all the way through the game.

     

    how fun would games be if there was no chance of losing! yay A.D.D. power!

  • arcdevilarcdevil Member Posts: 864

    Im against HDP, its a matter of principles. I dont think punishing someone for doing things wrong is the way to go, and its very open to explotation (high levels going on a noob killing rampage, people training mobs at you)

     

    I'd rather have games reward those that pull things great much more handsomely, say killing more and more guys your level before dying would net exponentially more reward, or downing a boss in your first attempt would add a +25% to the loot tables.

     

    HDP only makes morons give up trying, frustrate pro players when for reasons out of their control things went south, and in general terms cheapens the RPG part of the game since people just dont attempt things unless they really, really, really know I can not possibly go wrong. 

    I cant see how any of that is good for a game.

  • Nightbringe1Nightbringe1 Member UncommonPosts: 1,335
    Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

    Originally posted by Ravanos

    Originally posted by Ilvaldyr


    I'm also 100% against harsh death penalties.
    I like games to be challenging enough that I can fail, but I don't want to spend half of my time recouperating my losses. I have sparse enough gaming hours as it is.
    Failing to accomplish something that I spent an hour attempting is enough of a penalty for me.

     then whats the point of failing if you don't lose anything? what so you can say you failed? there should be some fear of death.

    I lose time. Time is the most valuable commodity any of us have.

    Time is a commodity a lot of people on this forum have way to much of.

    Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
    Benjamin Franklin

  • KharumKharum Member Posts: 94

    Depends a lot on how one defines hard. What do you think is hard then? Isn't having to be more careful and thoughtful of you actions kind of hard? Is constantly respawning and reattempting to win a battle with a mob harder then? You also assume that everyone thinks harsh death penalties are frustrating. I'm pretty sure that isn't the case. For someone like me, they are enjoyable. They can be frustrating too, but frustration isn't really an opposite of enjoyment.

     

    Waiting on Xsyon & betaing stuff

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Member CommonPosts: 2,898
    Originally posted by Unlight

    Originally posted by demented669


    A game with no death penalty is a joke, you can just run in like Leroy and get wiped laugh about it then try again..
    harsh death does not make games hard i totally agree with that, but a death penalty keeps players on there toes and gives you a rush when you end up winning a hard fight, pvp or pve, i beta tested star treck that game was a joke no death penalty at all and you spawned right back in same zone you died and could just rush in blast kill a few targets and die and rush in again after respawn. now that was a joke
    if you hate the rules of the game just don't play that game

     

    And?

    So what if some people *choose* to approach encounters like this?  It's their dime and if that's what gets their rocks off, so what?  Personally, I play every encounter like it could be my last.  I don't like to lose ever, so succeeding, whether or not there was a ton of XP, gold or time at stake is immaterial.  However, if I failed, I'd only be more irritated by being slapped with some arbitrary penalty on top of the sour taste of failure.

    If anyone is really serious about needing harsh death penalties to enjoy a game that doesn't have them, delete your character every time you die.  You don't need the developer to build in a whole system to support you and everyone else gets to enjoy the game as they wish.  I know there are perma-death guilds in DDO that do this, which I think is pretty cool.  But cooler yet is that I'm not required to be part of them.

    There are some people who inflict their own penalties on themselves to immerse themselves in the game. I've contemplated trying it myself. But it's not the same if everyone isn't doing the same.

    I can think of countless battles in DAoC where some giant mob was kicking our ass, killed our cleric, morale is low, and there's that moment of indecision, should we run, or should we try to kill it? A selfless person will try to grab agro while the others run, or maybe everyone stays and fires everything they've got to drop it. Some fights come down to the last member of the group fighting said mob, with all the bodies around him. If he goes down, we all have to release and lose experience, but if he can just hold on... 

    Without death penalty it's "oh hey, this mob is killing us, ah well we all died, let's go back and kill it before it can heal!" 

  • tro44_1tro44_1 Member Posts: 1,819
    Originally posted by Garvon3

    Originally posted by Toquio3


    I dont need harsh DPs to have a "rush". Im blessed enough to be able to have a rush on simple things. I had plenty of rushes in wow, and in plenty of games with zero DP.
    But thats probably because Im not playing games like they are a drug. So I dont need the "fix".

    So you're saying all games should cater to your style of "I don't care what I play so long as its easy and painless" mindset? 

    You get a rush from simple things.

     

    There's a name for people like you...

    DP DOESNT MAKE THE GAME HARD!!!

     

    Look at WoW. Have you beaten Arthas???? Prob Not! But what kind of DP does WoW have?

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Member CommonPosts: 2,898
    Originally posted by tro44_1

    Originally posted by Garvon3

    Originally posted by Toquio3


    I dont need harsh DPs to have a "rush". Im blessed enough to be able to have a rush on simple things. I had plenty of rushes in wow, and in plenty of games with zero DP.
    But thats probably because Im not playing games like they are a drug. So I dont need the "fix".

    So you're saying all games should cater to your style of "I don't care what I play so long as its easy and painless" mindset? 

    You get a rush from simple things.

     

    There's a name for people like you...

    DP DOESNT MAKE THE GAME HARD!!!

     

    Look at WoW. Have you beaten Arthas???? Prob Not! But what kind of DP does WoW have?

    Personally I don't really believe in the "difficulty" of raid encounters. It's all about memorizing patterns, downloading tools to take out even more of the challenge, and having spent the time to grind a bunch of gear. So that's a bad example, WoW raids are a joke. 

    If you scroll up, and read what I said, I already stated death penalty isn't anything to do with how difficult a game is.

  • tro44_1tro44_1 Member Posts: 1,819
    Originally posted by Ravanos

    Originally posted by Anthur


    @OP You should play some poker with real money and then only using chips without any real value backing them up. Rules are the same. But I assure you the game and how you play will be completely different.
     


     

    exactly. to me it sounds like most people would play a game like god of war 3 if "cheat mode" was enabled where you had infinite life. maybe thats where all games are going now, since apparently fun >everything else and dying/losing is not fun they should remove the chances of dying or losing.

    god of war ... give players infinite health

    Call of Duty ... infinite health and infinite ammo

    Madden (or any other sports games) if the computer scores the player gets the equal amount of points

    Mario ... why should enemies kill you, "star" mode all the way through the game.

     

    how fun would games be if there was no chance of losing! yay A.D.D. power!



     

    I will repeat

    HARSH DP DOESNT MAKE THE GAME HARDER!!!

    The Difficulty of the challenge makes the reward seem more rewarding. Not the frustration of the DP.

  • IlvaldyrIlvaldyr Member CommonPosts: 2,142
    Originally posted by Nightbringe1

    Originally posted by Ilvaldyr


    I'm also 100% against harsh death penalties.
    I like games to be challenging enough that I can fail, but I don't want to spend half of my time recouperating my losses. I have sparse enough gaming hours as it is.
    Failing to accomplish something that I spent an hour attempting is enough of a penalty for me.

     If you approach the tasks properly prepared, and are careful in the execution, you should not fail.

    If you approach an encounter poorly prepared in a haphazard fashion, you deserve to be spanked a little.

    Those repeated spankings from being unprepared or zerging encourage you to grow and mature in your abilities.

    All true, but not relevant to the discussion of harsh death penalties.

    Spending an entire night failing in a game with mild death penalties will give anyone an incentive to put more thought into how they're attempting to overcome whatever challenge is defeating them. The extra kick in the daddybags from a harsh death penalty is completely unnecessary.

    And let's be honest, a harsh death penalty always equates to some variation of a timesink, be that time spent idle due to a "recently dead" debuff, or time spent regrinding gear, experience or levels. Your penalty for failure is to be inflicted with enforced boredom for a period of time.

    More challenge, less boredom.

    image
    Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
  • Nightbringe1Nightbringe1 Member UncommonPosts: 1,335
    Originally posted by arcdevil 


     
    HDP only makes morons give up trying, 
    I cant see how any of that is good for a game.

     

    I can think of a few ways this is good for a game 

    Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
    Benjamin Franklin

  • IlvaldyrIlvaldyr Member CommonPosts: 2,142
    Originally posted by Nightbringe1

    Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

    Originally posted by Ravanos

    Originally posted by Ilvaldyr


    I'm also 100% against harsh death penalties.
    I like games to be challenging enough that I can fail, but I don't want to spend half of my time recouperating my losses. I have sparse enough gaming hours as it is.
    Failing to accomplish something that I spent an hour attempting is enough of a penalty for me.

     then whats the point of failing if you don't lose anything? what so you can say you failed? there should be some fear of death.

    I lose time. Time is the most valuable commodity any of us have.

    Time is a commodity a lot of people on this forum have way to much of.

    One can never have too much time.

    image
    Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Originally posted by Ravanos

    Originally posted by Anthur


    @OP You should play some poker with real money and then only using chips without any real value backing them up. Rules are the same. But I assure you the game and how you play will be completely different.
     


     

    exactly. to me it sounds like most people would play a game like god of war 3 if "cheat mode" was enabled where you had infinite life. maybe thats where all games are going now, since apparently fun >everything else and dying/losing is not fun they should remove the chances of dying or losing.

    god of war ... give players infinite health

    Call of Duty ... infinite health and infinite ammo

    Madden (or any other sports games) if the computer scores the player gets the equal amount of points

    Mario ... why should enemies kill you, "star" mode all the way through the game.

     

    how fun would games be if there was no chance of losing! yay A.D.D. power!

     

    Well, it is more or less like that now. Most of the games have infinite lives.

    I have been playing GoW2 and if you get hit enough .. u drop to the ground and you can push a button for a NPC to revive. You only really die & have to reload if everyone on ur team die. Oh, and health regen when u r under cover.

    So it is easy to get back into the game. There is no down-side. I am playing to experience the gameplay and not re-starting from teh start whenever i die.

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504
    Originally posted by Ravanos

    Originally posted by Ilvaldyr


    I'm also 100% against harsh death penalties.
    I like games to be challenging enough that I can fail, but I don't want to spend half of my time recouperating my losses. I have sparse enough gaming hours as it is.
    Failing to accomplish something that I spent an hour attempting is enough of a penalty for me.

     

    then whats the point of failing if you don't lose anything? what so you can say you failed? there should be some fear of death.



     

    You do lose something.

    Nobody is against penalty.  They're against harsh penalty.  Big difference.

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504
    Originally posted by Garvon3


    Personally I don't really believe in the "difficulty" of raid encounters. It's all about memorizing patterns, downloading tools to take out even more of the challenge, and having spent the time to grind a bunch of gear. So that's a bad example, WoW raids are a joke.



     

    What problem in life isn't about observing and learning the patterns, and utilizing what tools you can bring to bear to solve the problem?

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • Nightbringe1Nightbringe1 Member UncommonPosts: 1,335
    Originally posted by Ilvaldyr 


    And let's be honest, a harsh death penalty always equates to some variation of a timesink, be that time spent idle due to a "recently dead" debuff, or time spent regrinding gear, experience or levels. Your penalty for failure is to be inflicted with enforced boredom for a period of time.
    More challenge, less boredom.

    Xp is regained simply by playing most games.

    If you find playing the game boring, find a new game.

    If you do not find the game boring, regaining the xp will happen as a side benefit of having fun (barring repeated deaths, in which case you may be taking on content beyond your current abilities).

    For me, leveling is something that simply happens as I explore a game worlds content. Even in EQ, with all its death penalties, I seldom ran out of things to do before hitting max level. Yes, I would die while exploring new areas or testing my limits, but I recovered, went back better prepared, and I succeeded. In the process I regained my lost xp, and I had fun doing it.

    Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
    Benjamin Franklin

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,063
    Originally posted by tro44_1

    Harsh Death Penalty scares off players in PvP gameplay. - Yes, as it should. Death in games should be carry some of the risk that it does in real life, something that is to be avoided if at all possible and every decision you make should be weighed against whether or not you're going to end up dead as a result of it.  The penalty prevents mindless PVP and players learn to engage only when the odds of winning are in their favor.


    Harsh DP doesn’t add difficulty. It only adds Frustration!! It scares off players to try new things and explore. It reduces the epicness of Large Scale PvP populations from what it could potentially have been.
    What fun is exploring if there's no risk to doing it?  PVE is no different that PVP really, players should try to tackle more than they are capable of without proper preparation, and when they screw up they should be punished for their mistakes.  It promotes caution and makes PVE far more challenging knowing that if you get trapped in the wrong place you might not be able to recover you corpse and lose gear/exp.

    It's just a different mind set is all.  You prefer death penalties to be slight so that combat is everything.  Others prefer death penalties to be punishing so that players become cautious and thoughtful in every move they make. 

    Neither play style is 'wrong' or better than another, its just how people are wired and we're all very different in our tastes.

    I think EVE's death penalties are "just right" but others would disagree and say they should be more like Darkfall or WOW.

     

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • inBOILinBOIL Member Posts: 669

    teleport penalty it is,or spwaning penalty,or restart penalty.

    someone who calls it dying is lying.

     

     

    Generation P

  • Rockgod99Rockgod99 Member Posts: 4,640
    Originally posted by Kyleran

    Originally posted by tro44_1

    Harsh Death Penalty scares off players in PvP gameplay. - Yes, as it should. Death in games should be carry some of the risk that it does in real life, something that is to be avoided if at all possible and every decision you make should be weighed against whether or not you're going to end up dead as a result of it.  The penalty prevents mindless PVP and players learn to engage only when the odds of winning are in their favor.


    Harsh DP doesn’t add difficulty. It only adds Frustration!! It scares off players to try new things and explore. It reduces the epicness of Large Scale PvP populations from what it could potentially have been.
    What fun is exploring if there's no risk to doing it?  PVE is no different that PVP really, players should try to tackle more than they are capable of without proper preparation, and when they screw up they should be punished for their mistakes.  It promotes caution and makes PVE far more challenging knowing that if you get trapped in the wrong place you might not be able to recover you corpse and lose gear/exp.

    It's just a different mind set is all.  You prefer death penalties to be slight so that combat is everything.  Others prefer death penalties to be punishing so that players become cautious and thoughtful in every move they make. 

    Neither play style is 'wrong' or better than another, its just how people are wired and we're all very different in our tastes.

    I think EVE's death penalties are "just right" but others would disagree and say they should be more like Darkfall or WOW.

     

    No use trying to reason with these people.

    These threads are nothing but "It's either my way or the highway" threads.

    You can't have a discussion with anyone because every ones opinion is set in stone and anyone different is wrong, stupid or inferior.

     

    image

    Playing: Rift, LotRO
    Waiting on: GW2, BP

  • Nightbringe1Nightbringe1 Member UncommonPosts: 1,335
    Originally posted by Ilvaldyr 

    One can never have too much time.

    I think Tithonus would disagree, but that is a different discussion 

    Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
    Benjamin Franklin

  • tro44_1tro44_1 Member Posts: 1,819
    Originally posted by Rockgod99

    Originally posted by Kyleran

    Originally posted by tro44_1

    Harsh Death Penalty scares off players in PvP gameplay. - Yes, as it should. Death in games should be carry some of the risk that it does in real life, something that is to be avoided if at all possible and every decision you make should be weighed against whether or not you're going to end up dead as a result of it.  The penalty prevents mindless PVP and players learn to engage only when the odds of winning are in their favor.


    Harsh DP doesn’t add difficulty. It only adds Frustration!! It scares off players to try new things and explore. It reduces the epicness of Large Scale PvP populations from what it could potentially have been.
    What fun is exploring if there's no risk to doing it?  PVE is no different that PVP really, players should try to tackle more than they are capable of without proper preparation, and when they screw up they should be punished for their mistakes.  It promotes caution and makes PVE far more challenging knowing that if you get trapped in the wrong place you might not be able to recover you corpse and lose gear/exp.

    It's just a different mind set is all.  You prefer death penalties to be slight so that combat is everything.  Others prefer death penalties to be punishing so that players become cautious and thoughtful in every move they make. 

    Neither play style is 'wrong' or better than another, its just how people are wired and we're all very different in our tastes.

    I think EVE's death penalties are "just right" but others would disagree and say they should be more like Darkfall or WOW.

     

    No use trying to reason with these people.

    These threads are nothing but "It's either my way or the highway" threads.

    You can't have a discussion with anyone because every ones opinion is set in stone and anyone different is wrong, stupid or inferior.

     

    look whos posting...

    Harsh DP doesnt make gameplay harder. The Challege comes from the Gameplay, not the after effects of death.

    HDP is only there to slow progression to a crawl.

  • SoludeSolude Member UncommonPosts: 691

     Signed.  All a death penalty does is frustrate players and block access to content.  In EQ there was a set leveling path and very little draw to looking elsewhere because the risk involved in exploring made it unattractive.  I do not want to play a game where I can't play the content for fear that I might be punished.  Especially in the current MMO mentality of the game starting in the end game.

    I actually find WoW death system too harsh compared to other MMOs.  The option to respawn at the graveyard should be equal to that of running back to your corpse unharmed.  Just an example though since I play EQ2 at the moment which is very light on death penalty and provides easy access to any content.  Surviving the content is another story but trying is open to all without penalty.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,063
    Originally posted by tro44_1

    Originally posted by Rockgod99

    Originally posted by Kyleran

    Originally posted by tro44_1

    Harsh Death Penalty scares off players in PvP gameplay. - Yes, as it should. Death in games should be carry some of the risk that it does in real life, something that is to be avoided if at all possible and every decision you make should be weighed against whether or not you're going to end up dead as a result of it.  The penalty prevents mindless PVP and players learn to engage only when the odds of winning are in their favor.


    Harsh DP doesn’t add difficulty. It only adds Frustration!! It scares off players to try new things and explore. It reduces the epicness of Large Scale PvP populations from what it could potentially have been.
    What fun is exploring if there's no risk to doing it?  PVE is no different that PVP really, players should try to tackle more than they are capable of without proper preparation, and when they screw up they should be punished for their mistakes.  It promotes caution and makes PVE far more challenging knowing that if you get trapped in the wrong place you might not be able to recover you corpse and lose gear/exp.

    It's just a different mind set is all.  You prefer death penalties to be slight so that combat is everything.  Others prefer death penalties to be punishing so that players become cautious and thoughtful in every move they make. 

    Neither play style is 'wrong' or better than another, its just how people are wired and we're all very different in our tastes.

    I think EVE's death penalties are "just right" but others would disagree and say they should be more like Darkfall or WOW.

     

    No use trying to reason with these people.

    These threads are nothing but "It's either my way or the highway" threads.

    You can't have a discussion with anyone because every ones opinion is set in stone and anyone different is wrong, stupid or inferior.

     

    look whos posting...

    Harsh DP doesnt make gameplay harder. The Challege comes from the Gameplay, not the after effects of death.

    HDP is only there to slow progression to a crawl.

    Perhaps in many games, particularly level based PVE games, but in EVE that is absolutely not its purpose at all.

     

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






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