Yeah without actual consent to a billing plan, they are on very shakey ground legaly, HOWEVER and its a big however, as I am just as guilty as the next man for not reading fine print, is there any puesdo legal crap when we agreed to do the pre-purchase, IE we will bill you automaticly on a 30 day cycle and your 30 day free period starts at launch... In that case DOH ive done it again, should of looked more carefully at the small jargon bollocks before clicking 'yes', but easily fixed in the sense of going into store and selecting cancel, but yeah total crap for others not on any forum, bit of a honey trap.
If you find any such language that we agreed to please let me know.
There are a LOT of people that just wrote MO off after experiencing it... or said "I'll check back in 6-12 months". Those people are going to be SHOCKED when they get charged!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Anyway, as both Maerlyn and I stated in different threads, the free month will start autmatically as soon as MO goes live. This is something that is mutual for both pre-ordering customers, aswell as for those who bought the game in closed or open beta.
This is an extract from the "terms and conditions", that you actively have to agree to in order to finish your purchase:
"Please note that once you choose a subscription method and interval, and finish registering your account, you will subsequently be automatically charged unless you manually cancel your
subscription."
I never chose a subscription method. . only a method to buy the game. . so this is not a valid answer.
It's both a matter of technical difficulties and an unanimous management decision that states that the free month will begin the day MO goes live.
Unanimous management decision. . most likely based on the technical difficulties.
If you would choose to cancel your account now, it means that AFTER the free month has ended, we'll end your subscription, and won't make any further withdrawals from your account.
Yeah without actual consent to a billing plan, they are on very shakey ground legaly, HOWEVER and its a big however, as I am just as guilty as the next man for not reading fine print, is there any puesdo legal crap when we agreed to do the pre-purchase, IE we will bill you automaticly on a 30 day cycle and your 30 day free period starts at launch... In that case DOH ive done it again, should of looked more carefully at the small jargon bollocks before clicking 'yes', but easily fixed in the sense of going into store and selecting cancel, but yeah total crap for others not on any forum, bit of a honey trap.
I guess it depends where you are at- Sony was sued in the USA for installing spyware on machines even though the EULA specificly stated spyware would be installed and by accepting the agreement you agree to have spyware placed on you r machine by sony.
They were sued to hell and back and courts pretty much determined that agreeing to a eula really isnt binding . There have been many cases similar to this and every time consumers are given the win on this.... NOW, not saying they should get the win, but they do.
Also I am not sure how this would fall since I am not schooled on the law. I just know the eula doesnt usually stand up in court if something shady happens.
you know those recurring system ,dont you??first you have your 30 days gametime what you bought and then its recurring. its pretty normal.
You mean those ones where you are brought to a subscription screen and select the type (30 day, 90 day, 180 day) and enter payment info for the subscription (Visa, MC, PayPal, gamecard)...
Yup.. those ones I know.. but what does that have to do with this situation as none of the above occured?
So try to find your billing plan and card info what they are using on that renewal from your MO account,atleast in my account theres green light on automated renewal if you wanna start using it but theres no billing plan,but if you wanna do one,be my guest.
Thanks Slapshot, yeah think they are shooting themselves in the foot yet again, Dem boyz sure need to do some growing up, before they see themselves stripped of everything they have been working for.
Knowing them this might, and note I said might, as i,m speculating alot, be them cocking up the billing software or not doing something their side, which is rather an operating standard for those guys, so either way you look at it, not another good example management.
Which would be ironic seeing as I was rather impressed with their improvements in game of late, not that I think its of a release standard, but hey old ground yada yada, that something like this kills them off...They appear to be determined to find new and interesting ways to frak up, i,m sure they have a plaque or small trophy by now.
is mutual for both pre-ordering customers, aswell as for those who bought the game in closed or open beta.
It's both a matter of technical difficulties and an unanimous management decision that states that the free month will begin the day MO goes live.
It is this unanimous decision by the management that bothers me the most. All those people that say "I have faith in the Devs" so did I until I read this.
For the sake of your own health, this has not been confirmed so CONFIRM IT and then continue the discussion.
Whats the problem? Based on the information given its a GREAT idea to cancel auto-renew if you do not plan on playing MO.
These threads might help the people that supported MO long ago, but have since given up hope.
For the life of me i couldn't figure out why they insist on starting the free monthly immediately at launch. Seemed like bad business and would hurt future subscriptions.
Fanbot reply was always" THEY NEED THE MONEY NOW!!!"
My reply was they wouldn't get any money if they didnt subscribe after the free month was up.
Well... It looks like the choice was made for you.
One guys asked the question, is subsequently attacked for asking. (see link in OP) Yet, this may impact thousands of people.
For the sake of your own health, this has not been confirmed so CONFIRM IT and then continue the discussion.
My own health? Are you in some way threatening me with bodily harm?
People HAVE asked.. repeatedly... for clarifications. The answers are vague.. as I linked.
I guess the CS guy "Shady" is busy or something...
No- He's not threatening you.
He is a realy hardcore defender of all SV does but hes not a "bully" (if that makes sense).... Thing is I think he's really sincere in his blatant defending of all of SV's descisions. I dont think he's trolling although I did at first, but very serious.
To each his own I suppose. Hope the game works out for him and the buisiness practices of SV pay off for the supporters. =/
For the sake of your own health, this has not been confirmed so CONFIRM IT and then continue the discussion.
My own health? Are you in some way threatening me with bodily harm?
People HAVE asked.. repeatedly... for clarifications. The answers are vague.. as I linked.
I guess the CS guy "Shady" is busy or something...
No- He's not threatening you.
He is a realy hardcore defender of all SV does but hes not a "bully" (if that makes sense).... Thing is I think he's really sincere in his blatant defending of all of SV's descisions. I dont think he's trolling although I did at first, but very serious.
To each his own I suppose. Hope the game works out for him and the buisiness practices of SV pay off for the supporters. =/
Assuming it is the same Gobwar from the MO forums he is a fan for sure but has always posted fair responses. I most say I no longer share the enthusiasm though. The Devs come across as caring about their game and supporters. . then they make this decision. It will all be put to rest one way or another soon enough.
For the sake of your own health, this has not been confirmed so CONFIRM IT and then continue the discussion.
My own health? Are you in some way threatening me with bodily harm?
People HAVE asked.. repeatedly... for clarifications. The answers are vague.. as I linked.
I guess the CS guy "Shady" is busy or something...
No- He's not threatening you.
He is a realy hardcore defender of all SV does but hes not a "bully" (if that makes sense).... Thing is I think he's really sincere in his blatant defending of all of SV's descisions. I dont think he's trolling although I did at first, but very serious.
To each his own I suppose. Hope the game works out for him and the buisiness practices of SV pay off for the supporters. =/
Not sure where "my health" comes into the picture then... but anyhow... I am off to DisneyWorld in 30 minutes so I'll be looking forward to returning to continue the discussion!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The problem here is that it's going to catch a lot of people out. Had I pre-ordered MO then it certainly would have caught me out, and it seems like a few people here would have been too. That can only end badly once people realise what's happening and start trying to get refunds back, and it's a completely avoidable and unnecessary nuisance.
To be honest, I'm just glad I never gave them my card details. I can see this going the same way as DnL with people having to sue the company for continuing to charge them months after they cancelled their account.
For the sake of your own health, this has not been confirmed so CONFIRM IT and then continue the discussion.
My own health? Are you in some way threatening me with bodily harm?
People HAVE asked.. repeatedly... for clarifications. The answers are vague.. as I linked.
I guess the CS guy "Shady" is busy or something...
No- He's not threatening you.
He is a realy hardcore defender of all SV does but hes not a "bully" (if that makes sense).... Thing is I think he's really sincere in his blatant defending of all of SV's descisions. I dont think he's trolling although I did at first, but very serious.
To each his own I suppose. Hope the game works out for him and the buisiness practices of SV pay off for the supporters. =/
Assuming it is the same Gobwar from the MO forums he is a fan for sure but has always posted fair responses. I most say I no longer share the enthusiasm though. The Devs come across as caring about their game and supporters. . then they make this decision. It will all be put to rest one way or another soon enough.
Same here- I lost my enthusiasm about a Month, Month and a half ago- Two weeks sgo (or so) I gave up completley. Really sad because I was a supporter and really wanted to love this game... Hell, this was the game I had been waiting for since UO. But theory and good ideals is different than practice and implementation and with the shoddy CS and really bad communication and pile upon pile of excuses- Well....
For the sake of your own health, this has not been confirmed so CONFIRM IT and then continue the discussion.
My own health? Are you in some way threatening me with bodily harm?
People HAVE asked.. repeatedly... for clarifications. The answers are vague.. as I linked.
I guess the CS guy "Shady" is busy or something...
No- He's not threatening you.
He is a realy hardcore defender of all SV does but hes not a "bully" (if that makes sense).... Thing is I think he's really sincere in his blatant defending of all of SV's descisions. I dont think he's trolling although I did at first, but very serious.
To each his own I suppose. Hope the game works out for him and the buisiness practices of SV pay off for the supporters. =/
Not sure where "my health" comes into the picture then... but anyhow... I am off to DisneyWorld in 30 minutes so I'll be looking forward to returning to continue the discussion!
I think he was referring to your stress level. I am sure DisneyWorld will help.. . depends how many kids are going and whose they are. I don't think he meant it as a threat.
For the sake of your own health, this has not been confirmed so CONFIRM IT and then continue the discussion.
My own health? Are you in some way threatening me with bodily harm?
People HAVE asked.. repeatedly... for clarifications. The answers are vague.. as I linked.
I guess the CS guy "Shady" is busy or something...
No- He's not threatening you.
He is a realy hardcore defender of all SV does but hes not a "bully" (if that makes sense).... Thing is I think he's really sincere in his blatant defending of all of SV's descisions. I dont think he's trolling although I did at first, but very serious.
To each his own I suppose. Hope the game works out for him and the buisiness practices of SV pay off for the supporters. =/
Not sure where "my health" comes into the picture then... but anyhow... I am off to DisneyWorld in 30 minutes so I'll be looking forward to returning to continue the discussion!
I think he was referring to your stress level. I am sure DisneyWorld will help.. . depends how many kids are going and whose they are. I don't think he meant it as a threat.
Disneyworld would elevate my stress level. Screaming kids and diaper changes and fat ladies wearing far too little clothes... Amsterdam is where ya wanna go. =P
OK so let me get this straight the evil god like overlords that rule the land have decided that you will be born into there world when THEY say so and carve out your own destiny WHEN its convenient for them?
That is so HARDCORE
But seriously I'd never sign up to this game with that type of system, I want to play when I'm ready to play not when the system tells me I have to play.
For those of you that pre-ordered, a place to put in CC information on monthly recurring subscriptions would be at the above link. After selecting 1/3/6, you are asked to choose what payment method you would like.
I believe this will change what account/card is being billed, but it will likely order you the game-time now.... which probably isn't an issue if you intend on going past the first free month. Just place that order sometime before your free month expires.
If you don't intend to go past the first free month, just set your "status" to "Do not renew" on the Details page and you are good to go.
I've requested that they display the CC Information on the details page so people know which account/card is being charged.
Comments
If you find any such language that we agreed to please let me know.
There are a LOT of people that just wrote MO off after experiencing it... or said "I'll check back in 6-12 months". Those people are going to be SHOCKED when they get charged!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Posted by Shady the CS guy
Anyway, as both Maerlyn and I stated in different threads, the free month will start autmatically as soon as MO goes live. This is something that is mutual for both pre-ordering customers, aswell as for those who bought the game in closed or open beta.
This is an extract from the "terms and conditions", that you actively have to agree to in order to finish your purchase:
"Please note that once you choose a subscription method and interval, and finish registering your account, you will subsequently be automatically charged unless you manually cancel your
subscription."
I never chose a subscription method. . only a method to buy the game. . so this is not a valid answer.
It's both a matter of technical difficulties and an unanimous management decision that states that the free month will begin the day MO goes live.
Unanimous management decision. . most likely based on the technical difficulties.
If you would choose to cancel your account now, it means that AFTER the free month has ended, we'll end your subscription, and won't make any further withdrawals from your account.
Again, I never chose a subscription.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
For the sake of your own health, this has not been confirmed so CONFIRM IT and then continue the discussion.
You can burn me, but i wont die.
it doesn't help my confidence that the CS guys forum name is Shady
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
I guess it depends where you are at- Sony was sued in the USA for installing spyware on machines even though the EULA specificly stated spyware would be installed and by accepting the agreement you agree to have spyware placed on you r machine by sony.
They were sued to hell and back and courts pretty much determined that agreeing to a eula really isnt binding . There have been many cases similar to this and every time consumers are given the win on this.... NOW, not saying they should get the win, but they do.
Also I am not sure how this would fall since I am not schooled on the law. I just know the eula doesnt usually stand up in court if something shady happens.
Here is the applicable section of the Terms and Conditions:
Please note that once you choose a subscription method and interval, and finish registering your
account, you will subsequently be automatically charged unless you manually cancel your
subscription. You may do so at any time by logging onto the "account management" site on
www.mortalonline.com, and there use the "cancel subscription" option. Your account will stay open
until the end of the current billing cycle.
I know for a fact that I never chose a subscription menthod and interval....
https://account.mortalonline.com/public/pdf/terms_conditions.pdf
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I think my post above confirms it. They think we have subsrcibed somehow.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
You mean those ones where you are brought to a subscription screen and select the type (30 day, 90 day, 180 day) and enter payment info for the subscription (Visa, MC, PayPal, gamecard)...
Yup.. those ones I know.. but what does that have to do with this situation as none of the above occured?
So try to find your billing plan and card info what they are using on that renewal from your MO account,atleast in my account theres green light on automated renewal if you wanna start using it but theres no billing plan,but if you wanna do one,be my guest.
Generation P
Thanks Slapshot, yeah think they are shooting themselves in the foot yet again, Dem boyz sure need to do some growing up, before they see themselves stripped of everything they have been working for.
Knowing them this might, and note I said might, as i,m speculating alot, be them cocking up the billing software or not doing something their side, which is rather an operating standard for those guys, so either way you look at it, not another good example management.
Which would be ironic seeing as I was rather impressed with their improvements in game of late, not that I think its of a release standard, but hey old ground yada yada, that something like this kills them off...They appear to be determined to find new and interesting ways to frak up, i,m sure they have a plaque or small trophy by now.
My own health? Are you in some way threatening me with bodily harm?
People HAVE asked.. repeatedly... for clarifications. The answers are vague.. as I linked.
I guess the CS guy "Shady" is busy or something...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
It is this unanimous decision by the management that bothers me the most. All those people that say "I have faith in the Devs" so did I until I read this.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
Whats the problem? Based on the information given its a GREAT idea to cancel auto-renew if you do not plan on playing MO.
These threads might help the people that supported MO long ago, but have since given up hope.
For the life of me i couldn't figure out why they insist on starting the free monthly immediately at launch. Seemed like bad business and would hurt future subscriptions.
Fanbot reply was always" THEY NEED THE MONEY NOW!!!"
My reply was they wouldn't get any money if they didnt subscribe after the free month was up.
Well... It looks like the choice was made for you.
One guys asked the question, is subsequently attacked for asking. (see link in OP) Yet, this may impact thousands of people.
I win!!! LOL@U
My own health? Are you in some way threatening me with bodily harm?
People HAVE asked.. repeatedly... for clarifications. The answers are vague.. as I linked.
I guess the CS guy "Shady" is busy or something...
No- He's not threatening you.
He is a realy hardcore defender of all SV does but hes not a "bully" (if that makes sense).... Thing is I think he's really sincere in his blatant defending of all of SV's descisions. I dont think he's trolling although I did at first, but very serious.
To each his own I suppose. Hope the game works out for him and the buisiness practices of SV pay off for the supporters. =/
My own health? Are you in some way threatening me with bodily harm?
People HAVE asked.. repeatedly... for clarifications. The answers are vague.. as I linked.
I guess the CS guy "Shady" is busy or something...
No- He's not threatening you.
He is a realy hardcore defender of all SV does but hes not a "bully" (if that makes sense).... Thing is I think he's really sincere in his blatant defending of all of SV's descisions. I dont think he's trolling although I did at first, but very serious.
To each his own I suppose. Hope the game works out for him and the buisiness practices of SV pay off for the supporters. =/
Assuming it is the same Gobwar from the MO forums he is a fan for sure but has always posted fair responses. I most say I no longer share the enthusiasm though. The Devs come across as caring about their game and supporters. . then they make this decision. It will all be put to rest one way or another soon enough.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
My own health? Are you in some way threatening me with bodily harm?
People HAVE asked.. repeatedly... for clarifications. The answers are vague.. as I linked.
I guess the CS guy "Shady" is busy or something...
No- He's not threatening you.
He is a realy hardcore defender of all SV does but hes not a "bully" (if that makes sense).... Thing is I think he's really sincere in his blatant defending of all of SV's descisions. I dont think he's trolling although I did at first, but very serious.
To each his own I suppose. Hope the game works out for him and the buisiness practices of SV pay off for the supporters. =/
Not sure where "my health" comes into the picture then... but anyhow... I am off to DisneyWorld in 30 minutes so I'll be looking forward to returning to continue the discussion!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The problem here is that it's going to catch a lot of people out. Had I pre-ordered MO then it certainly would have caught me out, and it seems like a few people here would have been too. That can only end badly once people realise what's happening and start trying to get refunds back, and it's a completely avoidable and unnecessary nuisance.
To be honest, I'm just glad I never gave them my card details. I can see this going the same way as DnL with people having to sue the company for continuing to charge them months after they cancelled their account.
My own health? Are you in some way threatening me with bodily harm?
People HAVE asked.. repeatedly... for clarifications. The answers are vague.. as I linked.
I guess the CS guy "Shady" is busy or something...
No- He's not threatening you.
He is a realy hardcore defender of all SV does but hes not a "bully" (if that makes sense).... Thing is I think he's really sincere in his blatant defending of all of SV's descisions. I dont think he's trolling although I did at first, but very serious.
To each his own I suppose. Hope the game works out for him and the buisiness practices of SV pay off for the supporters. =/
Assuming it is the same Gobwar from the MO forums he is a fan for sure but has always posted fair responses. I most say I no longer share the enthusiasm though. The Devs come across as caring about their game and supporters. . then they make this decision. It will all be put to rest one way or another soon enough.
Same here- I lost my enthusiasm about a Month, Month and a half ago- Two weeks sgo (or so) I gave up completley. Really sad because I was a supporter and really wanted to love this game... Hell, this was the game I had been waiting for since UO. But theory and good ideals is different than practice and implementation and with the shoddy CS and really bad communication and pile upon pile of excuses- Well....
My own health? Are you in some way threatening me with bodily harm?
People HAVE asked.. repeatedly... for clarifications. The answers are vague.. as I linked.
I guess the CS guy "Shady" is busy or something...
No- He's not threatening you.
He is a realy hardcore defender of all SV does but hes not a "bully" (if that makes sense).... Thing is I think he's really sincere in his blatant defending of all of SV's descisions. I dont think he's trolling although I did at first, but very serious.
To each his own I suppose. Hope the game works out for him and the buisiness practices of SV pay off for the supporters. =/
Not sure where "my health" comes into the picture then... but anyhow... I am off to DisneyWorld in 30 minutes so I'll be looking forward to returning to continue the discussion!
I think he was referring to your stress level. I am sure DisneyWorld will help.. . depends how many kids are going and whose they are. I don't think he meant it as a threat.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
My own health? Are you in some way threatening me with bodily harm?
People HAVE asked.. repeatedly... for clarifications. The answers are vague.. as I linked.
I guess the CS guy "Shady" is busy or something...
No- He's not threatening you.
He is a realy hardcore defender of all SV does but hes not a "bully" (if that makes sense).... Thing is I think he's really sincere in his blatant defending of all of SV's descisions. I dont think he's trolling although I did at first, but very serious.
To each his own I suppose. Hope the game works out for him and the buisiness practices of SV pay off for the supporters. =/
Not sure where "my health" comes into the picture then... but anyhow... I am off to DisneyWorld in 30 minutes so I'll be looking forward to returning to continue the discussion!
I think he was referring to your stress level. I am sure DisneyWorld will help.. . depends how many kids are going and whose they are. I don't think he meant it as a threat.
Disneyworld would elevate my stress level. Screaming kids and diaper changes and fat ladies wearing far too little clothes... Amsterdam is where ya wanna go. =P
Thanks for the heads up OP. Just disabled the recurring payment. Just wish they would give my money back for a product I still have not received.
In light of this I'm sure SV will revisit their policy. There's really no way to defend it.
"Mmorpg.com; allowing people to make a difference one post at a time."
I win!!! LOL@U
Thats my hope...
I'm looking forward to a post from SV stating 'Of course we would never charge you a recurring fee unless you actively chose to do so'...
We will see!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Thats my hope...
I'm looking forward to a post from SV stating 'Of course we would never charge you a recurring fee unless you actively chose to do so'...
We will see!
And that is why it is of the utmost importance to bring this to light... So this "oversight" can be fixed. =P
OK so let me get this straight the evil god like overlords that rule the land have decided that you will be born into there world when THEY say so and carve out your own destiny WHEN its convenient for them?
That is so HARDCORE
But seriously I'd never sign up to this game with that type of system, I want to play when I'm ready to play not when the system tells me I have to play.
https://account.mortalonline.com/order/choose_product.php
For those of you that pre-ordered, a place to put in CC information on monthly recurring subscriptions would be at the above link. After selecting 1/3/6, you are asked to choose what payment method you would like.
I believe this will change what account/card is being billed, but it will likely order you the game-time now.... which probably isn't an issue if you intend on going past the first free month. Just place that order sometime before your free month expires.
If you don't intend to go past the first free month, just set your "status" to "Do not renew" on the Details page and you are good to go.
I've requested that they display the CC Information on the details page so people know which account/card is being charged.