'hey boss, our income has gone through the roof, but this guy here wants to become famous and wants our game to filter out the bad guys. We should develop a system where the player who died has to start over. So only the very good players will stay and that 90% others caled bad players wil quit it . "You do realize that we lose 90% of our income and we can close the game ?"" "yeah, but then the Op of that post can be elite and play with others who are on the same level. C'mon boss, he wants to feel special, he may not be something IRL, at least he can be special in this game " "okay, I had enough, so your advising me to choose between $$$ and a server where this fellow can feel special? Okay, you're fired"
Even though I said it, I agree with that post. Which is why I added a second post saying..
"Also, I meant it would be good more more MMOGs. Where you have items, money and rep, but not really XP or skills or atleast a big ammount of skills. It would be good for games where its like a sandbox like eve, except without there being like 5000 skills. So for games that its rep and money based, so if you die and are like one of the top 10 most wanted in the game, you can be pronounced dead, and you have to start over, without rep, money, and certain skills."
So you could have a fresh start kind of thing and learn from mistakes, but while still having money and supplies in the bank, and skill.
I'm not sure what games you are playing, but most MMO's have some sort of death penalty.
Yeah, like WoW. God forbid a pointless durability loss when $ is nothing in that game.
If you read the post you might realize I am referring to Death Penalties that players CARE ABOUT. Sigh
I read the post.... ya might want to write that somewhere in it. Or even explain what kind of death penalty you are condoning.
SIGH
Example - I am all for exp hit death penalties... moderatly harsh... or equal to EQ. I see debuffs as a hinderance not a loss, so I'm not a proponent of debuffs at all.
done.. Yeah I kind of hate how sometimes people will somehow claim that games with minor penalties for dying are somehow a Death Penalty. A Death Penalty is something that will really piss you off if you die, basically.
Totaly agree. Don't get me wrong, I dont want to lose days of work over something as simple as falling off a ledge, but ya gotta lose something.
well thats where the SKILL part comes into it, if a person is Stupid enough to fall off a cliff take the hit. As when in rl you would never think of watching your step
Originally posted by huge_froglok We said that it makes "not dying" more meaningful.
It does not make it more meaningfull than a gamer who wants to log in once in a while and measure his skills with other players without having to spent much of his limited time on death recovering.
To answer your question, Both. They don't feel the sting of the loss. They get pissed, sure. But then they will piss you off for killing them, and you can't do anything about it, because they didn't lose anything. Eventually they get even by just wasting your time. World PvP was quickly dead in WoW because of that. People just shared exp spots with the other team because they realized if they PvPed they would only waste both of their time. You could never take over an exp spot. People just didn't come back and fight in games with exp loss in EQ, because their corpse with gear would be where you killed them. For them to get their corpse(items), they agree to give you the exp spot. Otherwise, the other player can prevent them from getting their corpse. Of course if they spawn in ghost form, or with their items, they might just come back and bother you, like they do in WoW.
If you lose the fight, you shouldn't be able to come back and waste the other persons time. If there was a penalty, they wouldn't do that. If there wasn't ghost form, they wouldn't do that. If their gear stayed on their corpse where they died, they wouldnt do that. Without any of that, they will annoy you, even thought you've WON. So how do you win in a system like that? People never PvPed because of that fact.
But then they've won.
I get what you are saying, don't think I don't. You are saying that if someone losses something and enough of it eventually they will go.
But the thing is that won't make them go. If they keep coming back over and over again then that is about something else. Most reasonable people will see that you will waste them and they will find something better to do with their time. It's the mean, vindictive people who are essentially saying "if you can kill me then the least I can do is annoy you". It's not really in the spirit of the game but there it is.
But xp loss? I would just play it differnetly. I would come back 2 or 3 times. If I couldn't get you I would acknowledge that you are a superior force. So I would just get reinforcements and come back and wipe you. Of course you would do the same and eventually we would have a good ol' fashioned bar brawl. And that's fun.
But don't think xp loss is going to make me stop just because I can't get you. All that means is I need a larger army.
The thing is that in WoW, it wouldnt matter who I killed. If I kill someone at an exp spot they ARE going to come back and attack. That is how the PvP servers were in WoW. They weren't vindictive, they just wanted revenge and because they didn't lose anything they feel like they have to get even.
The game enabled them to get even too, because once they die they are invulnerable, they can just watch you and wait until you engage something then rez and kill you. They kill you once, and now they feel "even".
They've won? Only because the game is retarded and lets them be invulnerable. If you lose, you should lose. PvP shouldn't be about time investment like it is in WoW.. the person who invests more time into annoying the other person wins. PvP should be about winning and losing. You kill someone, you win.
Like I said, if your gear stayed on your corpse, you would probably need permission from the person who killed you to get your gear back. If you tell them you are gonna attack them, they will just kill you before you get your gear, making you lose even more exp.
In EQ, once you PvP and kill someone, you basically have won. The losers accept their loss and move on, because the person who killed them will show mercy and let them get their stuff and get their exp restored through a rez.
And people wouldn't generally help them get their corpse back unless the guy was not letting them get their gear. The first thing people do after dying in an exp spot is ask for Loot and Scoot. If that doesn't work, that is when you get a huge war. Most people won't want to waste time or risk their own exp for something that can be solved by asking for LNS.
We said that it makes "not dying" more meaningful.
It does not make it more meaningfull than a gamer who wants to log in once in a while and measure his skills with other players without having to spent much of his limited time on death recovering.
Well then it sounds like "That Gamer" should stick to multiplayer shooters
To the OP just Dieing in general means you have to reset , rebuff and even reclear trash mobs depending on the game, or get a whole new SHIP like in eve witch everything takes time, you lose time , Real life time is the biggest death Penalty nothing can top that.
As for open pvp deaths i think it would be stupid to have more of a penalty for being jumped for 4 guys higher than your level or what ever. thats just stupid lets penalize the level 30 for being killed by 4 60's. Running back as ghost is penalty enough it uses RL time!
'hey boss, our income has gone through the roof, but this guy here wants to become famous and wants our game to filter out the bad guys. We should develop a system where the player who died has to start over. So only the very good players will stay and that 90% others caled bad players wil quit it . "You do realize that we lose 90% of our income and we can close the game ?"" "yeah, but then the Op of that post can be elite and play with others who are on the same level. C'mon boss, he wants to feel special, he may not be something IRL, at least he can be special in this game " "okay, I had enough, so your advising me to choose between $$$ and a server where this fellow can feel special? Okay, you're fired"
Who said start over? No one said to lose everything.
And it's not like newer MMORPGs are going to beat WoW at being a casual game.
A new MMORPG will have to be different, maybe more harsh, but not at the same level as Darkfall was.
EQ1 with its PvP servers would definitely take over the other portion of the market, the people who hate WoW and how meaningless and easy everything is.
To the OP just Dieing in general means you have to reset , rebuff and even reclear trash mobs depending on the game, or get a whole new SHIP like in eve witch everything takes time, you lose time , Real life time is the biggest death Penalty nothing can top that. As for open pvp deaths i think it would be stupid to have more of a penalty for being jumped for 4 guys higher than your level or what ever. thats just stupid lets penalize the level 30 for being killed by 4 60's. Running back as ghost is penalty enough it uses RL time!
In EQ you would only lose exp if the guy was within a certain level range. So a 60 killing a 30 won't make the 30 lose exp. A 30 killing a 30 would, so if you're leveling in the same area as someone else and kill them, they lose exp and give up the exp spot.
We said that it makes "not dying" more meaningful.
It does not make it more meaningfull than a gamer who wants to log in once in a while and measure his skills with other players without having to spent much of his limited time on death recovering.
He's only gonna die if he plays carelessly, like how people play in MMORPGs without death penalties.
And if he's dying all the time, I think he knows how he measures vs other players, especially if he's stuck at level 1.
I don't think people who keep dying should be able to reach max level. Reaching max level should take some skill and effort, it should not be free like it is in WoW.
Why would I want to do a pick-up-group raid with someone who died 500 times per level? They should be stuck at certain levels until they become more efficient and learn to play
To the OP just Dieing in general means you have to reset , rebuff and even reclear trash mobs depending on the game, or get a whole new SHIP like in eve witch everything takes time, you lose time , Real life time is the biggest death Penalty nothing can top that. As for open pvp deaths i think it would be stupid to have more of a penalty for being jumped for 4 guys higher than your level or what ever. thats just stupid lets penalize the level 30 for being killed by 4 60's. Running back as ghost is penalty enough it uses RL time!
In EQ you would only lose exp if the guy was within a certain level range. So a 60 killing a 30 won't make the 30 lose exp. A 30 killing a 30 would, so if you're leveling in the same area as someone else and kill them, they lose exp and give up the exp spot.
So you lose the exp spot than that sucks enough, and if your talking EQ there is no pvp balance in the game wouldnt be smart for a death penalty for pvp death
Well then it sounds like "That Gamer" should stick to multiplayer shooters
I guess you try to be smart but it just makes no sense...
Im just saying that a gamer that only has limited time and only wants to play once in a while is more suited for multiplayer games than MMOs, its just an observation
To the OP just Dieing in general means you have to reset , rebuff and even reclear trash mobs depending on the game, or get a whole new SHIP like in eve witch everything takes time, you lose time , Real life time is the biggest death Penalty nothing can top that. As for open pvp deaths i think it would be stupid to have more of a penalty for being jumped for 4 guys higher than your level or what ever. thats just stupid lets penalize the level 30 for being killed by 4 60's. Running back as ghost is penalty enough it uses RL time!
In EQ you would only lose exp if the guy was within a certain level range. So a 60 killing a 30 won't make the 30 lose exp. A 30 killing a 30 would, so if you're leveling in the same area as someone else and kill them, they lose exp and give up the exp spot.
So you lose the exp spot than that sucks enough, and if your talking EQ there is no pvp balance in the game wouldnt be smart for a death penalty for pvp death
It wasn't balanced at all. But still, the classes that were weak tended to be overpowered in group play.
PvP during leveling wasn't that common either. Each team had control over certain zones, meaning if you are on the good team you are generally not going to encounter a neutral or evil team member in one of your faction-controlled zones.
Originally posted by pon14 Im just saying that a gamer that only has limited time and only wants to play once in a while is more suited for multiplayer games than MMOs, its just an observation
Im just saying that a gamer that only has limited time and only wants to play once in a while is more suited for multiplayer games than MMOs, its just an observation
MMO for no-lifers only?
I am not buying that one.
Thats not what I meant eaither, but because you make it sound like they would only play once a week if not less, besides, I have no problem however long someone plays, its just someone with that not amount of time couldn't get that far in a game, which is another reason why I quit WoW and play alot of console games now
Im just saying that a gamer that only has limited time and only wants to play once in a while is more suited for multiplayer games than MMOs, its just an observation
I bought some time ago a month gametime for Anarchy Online,I played once in a while and my goal was to earn 1000 000 000 credits just by making business.
Im just saying that a gamer that only has limited time and only wants to play once in a while is more suited for multiplayer games than MMOs, its just an observation
I bought some time ago a month gametime for Anarchy Online,I played once in a while and my goal was to earn 1000 000 000 credits just by making business.
He's only gonna die if he plays carelessly, like how people play in MMORPGs without death penalties.And if he's dying all the time, I think he knows how he measures vs other players, especially if he's stuck at level 1.I don't think people who keep dying should be able to reach max level. Reaching max level should take some skill and effort, it should not be free like it is in WoW.Why would I want to do a pick-up-group raid with someone who died 500 times per level? They should be stuck at certain levels until they become more efficient and learn to play
Because I die in PVP, I can't progress in levels?
I also die in PVE a lot because it is boring as hell for me and I can't stand any grind. Can't I join your raid either?
Did you ever try to respect other people and their opinions? So far you did not bring any arguments, only unfound opinions on how others should play their game.
He's only gonna die if he plays carelessly, like how people play in MMORPGs without death penalties.
And if he's dying all the time, I think he knows how he measures vs other players, especially if he's stuck at level 1. I don't think people who keep dying should be able to reach max level. Reaching max level should take some skill and effort, it should not be free like it is in WoW. Why would I want to do a pick-up-group raid with someone who died 500 times per level? They should be stuck at certain levels until they become more efficient and learn to play
Because I die in PVP, I can't progress in levels?
I also die in PVE a lot because it is boring as hell for me and I can't stand any grind. Can't I join your raid either?
Did you ever try to respect other people and their opinions? So far you did not bring any arguments, only unfound opinions on how others should play their game.
It's only a grind when you are playing an MMORPG with easy mode PvE content. Otherwise leveling can be fun.
And you're right, it is "their game" I guess. Because companies are only catering to the interests of people who never played MMORPGs before, the masses.
What about people who played MMORPGs when they were actually difficult? Who do we complain to that MMORPG companies have systematically made their games boring and dumbed down?
I don't get why you are arguing though, go play WoW. That game doesn't have a death penalty, and WoW isn't going away anytime soon. Some people here just don't want there to be an alternative MMORPG for skilled players, or players who enjoy a challenge.
I once did a PUG raid in WoW and this 1 person kept wiping the raid on a certain boss in Naxx. Do you think I enjoy raiding with people like that? When I see a level 60, I want that to be enough for me to let them join my raid. Unfortunately, when the leveling system lets everyone through, it's harder to filter out the skilled players.
Because companies are only catering to the interests of people who never played MMORPGs before, the masses. What about people who played MMORPGs when they were actually difficult? Who do we complain to that MMORPG companies have systematically made their games boring and dumbed down?
There is 99% MMO market consisting of +100M players disgreeing with you that MMOs are boring.
As I said before, do not complain - respect it.
EDIT: Free market is going to help your issue. Most of the developers will try to focus on mainstream games but there will be some that will try to make things differently so they do not have to compete with everyone but speak to specific audience.
This is just natural and works for any market. It is not the companies shaping the future of the games opposed to what you think, it is the gamers.
It sounds like you're in favor of exp loss upon death. In that case, I might as well copy and paste my response from another similar thread.
We can argue about this all we want, but I have a feeling that nostalgia is once again rearing its ugly head. "We" like harsh death penalties because the first MMOs had them, and, thus, they are familiar; they feel "right". This reasoning won't hold in a discussion, so we try to throw arguments like "it increases the risk factor!" and "why play a game if you don't want to be whipped and mutilated each time you die?" I believe it's called masochism to experience pleasure through pain; why fight so hard for harsh death penalties if they don't please us? There needs to be repercussions, of course. In single-player RPGs, this is most likely a matter of reloading from the last save point, which can either be a very weak or a very harsh penalty, depending on how much progress you've lost. Single-player RPGs are not persistent worlds, so in an MMO, which is a persistent world, why should we also lose progress? This is why I'm against experience loss upon death most of all. I spent the last hour getting that level, and you can't hit pause and shift back the clock an hour just because a mob sneaked up on me and killed me while I was AFK for 2 minutes. That's how I feel, anyways. Other death penalties which may be considered "harsh", like full-loot or heavy stat loss, I can deal with. Full-loot punishes you after your death economically because you have to recoup the items you lost. Stat loss punishes you performance-wise because you will struggle to play effectively. Of the two, I prefer economic loss. If the stat loss is not too harsh, i.e. it doesn't render you completely useless for X amount of time, then that's okay too. The point is, I want to play the game. If I can only play at 25% of my power for X amount of time, that sucks. I'd rather spend that time making money to replace my economic loss. Like single-player games, economic loss is also scalable. If you only fly what you can afford to lose (anyone who plays the game knows this rule), your losses shouldn't be too harsh. However, if there's a lapse of judgment or unfortunate circumstances and you happen to lose a lot, that may cause you to curse and scream and RAAAAAGH I HATE THIS GAME, BUT I CAN'T STOP PLAYING! Similarly, if you saved 2 minutes before you died in a single-player RPG, you won't cry as much as if you had saved an hour ago. With economic loss, there needs to be some insurance system so that people can feel it's at least semi-safe to bring their best equipment out to a fight. Either that, or it needs to be fairly easy to obtain that best equipment. In any case, you don't want noobs fighting with starter swords and underpants because they're afraid to lose their gear.
I'll admit, though, your reasoning was a bit different. You want to be #1 on the leaderboard, the best max-level player out there who can tackle all the super-elite content with your core group of second, third, and fourth best buddies. At least, that's how you sound to me. In that case, I recommend a game like RuneScape where your dedication is rewarded by a leaderboard, though you'd have to work pretty hard and long to be #1. But you get out what you put in, right? And, Sovrath, I agree with you, though I think exp loss is stupid.
I don't like death penalties because they were in my first MMORPG. I like them because they made the game more fun.
Your argument about DP's is off as well. No one said we enjoyed the Death Penalty. We said that it makes "not dying" more meaningful. I don't think anyone here has said dying is fun in games with a death penalty..
What does being #1 have to do with death penalties? I said that games like WoW hand out level 80's, and you're a number, and everything is given away for free, and leveling is not challenging. You can't be somebody when there are so many people with the same level, same stuff as you. Once they put in penalties, make leveling difficult, and limit server population, then people will be somebody on their server again.
Like I said, I just copied and pasted that response which was from another similar, though not exactly duplicate, thread on the subject.
Ignore the first and last parts and focus on the meat in the middle. Don't you agree that monetary/economic penalty is better than exp loss? That's why EVE does it right. You control (to an extent) how harsh the death penalty is.
I once did a PUG raid in WoW and this 1 person kept wiping the raid on a certain boss in Naxx. Do you think I enjoy raiding with people like that? When I see a level 60, I want that to be enough for me to let them join my raid. Unfortunately, when the leveling system lets everyone through, it's harder to filter out the skilled players.
This is so true ,these 60 level people do have Mike Tysons title but if they go ring with him ....
The thing is that in WoW, it wouldnt matter who I killed. If I kill someone at an exp spot they ARE going to come back and attack. That is how the PvP servers were in WoW. They weren't vindictive, they just wanted revenge and because they didn't lose anything they feel like they have to get even. and the rest...
you know, I've been thinking about the whole wow thing and it suddenly occured to me that WoW in the end is not trying to accomplish what a lot of "more hardcore" pvp'ers want.
The whole idea is for wow to be very accessible to anyone at all levels. This is not to say it doesn't get harder but essentially its misson statement is not about what you are arguing for.
I did hear that they somehow ruined world pvp, and I'm not clear about that, whether it was the battlegrounds or some other thing, however I think WoW was always about less penalties.
Since that is the case you can't really argue that it should have more becuase it never wanted that.
I would say that if they applied Wow's ideas to lineage 2 or shadowbane or darkfall or "pick your favorite hardcore pvp game" then I could see people getting upset.
Also, I would say that if they did lose something then they would want to get you "even MORE".
You are under the idea that if there was a harsher death penalty in wow then people would give up sooner rather than later. But in lineage 2 that never happend. People would get their whole alliance if you messed with them.
So essentialy a player will always come back to get you if they are not a complete pve player. I've know more pve players who just don't want to be bothered with the whole pvp thing.
Also, since I just realized that you are mostly talking about pvp instead of pve then I have to ammend my statement about wow's death penalty. In pve I generally turn the game off after about 2 or 3 deaths. So you are right, the death penatly in wow doesn't dissuade.
But I will tell you this, even if you added the same death penalty as L2 you would still have a fight on your hands, you would just be facing a larger group of people.
Which may or may not be a good thing depending on what you are looking for.
I'm surprised you don't play lineage 2.
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Comments
Even though I said it, I agree with that post. Which is why I added a second post saying..
"Also, I meant it would be good more more MMOGs. Where you have items, money and rep, but not really XP or skills or atleast a big ammount of skills. It would be good for games where its like a sandbox like eve, except without there being like 5000 skills. So for games that its rep and money based, so if you die and are like one of the top 10 most wanted in the game, you can be pronounced dead, and you have to start over, without rep, money, and certain skills."
So you could have a fresh start kind of thing and learn from mistakes, but while still having money and supplies in the bank, and skill.
Yeah, like WoW. God forbid a pointless durability loss when $ is nothing in that game.
If you read the post you might realize I am referring to Death Penalties that players CARE ABOUT. Sigh
I read the post.... ya might want to write that somewhere in it. Or even explain what kind of death penalty you are condoning.
SIGH
Example - I am all for exp hit death penalties... moderatly harsh... or equal to EQ. I see debuffs as a hinderance not a loss, so I'm not a proponent of debuffs at all.
done.. Yeah I kind of hate how sometimes people will somehow claim that games with minor penalties for dying are somehow a Death Penalty. A Death Penalty is something that will really piss you off if you die, basically.
Totaly agree. Don't get me wrong, I dont want to lose days of work over something as simple as falling off a ledge, but ya gotta lose something.
well thats where the SKILL part comes into it, if a person is Stupid enough to fall off a cliff take the hit. As when in rl you would never think of watching your step
It does not make it more meaningfull than a gamer who wants to log in once in a while and measure his skills with other players without having to spent much of his limited time on death recovering.
But then they've won.
I get what you are saying, don't think I don't. You are saying that if someone losses something and enough of it eventually they will go.
But the thing is that won't make them go. If they keep coming back over and over again then that is about something else. Most reasonable people will see that you will waste them and they will find something better to do with their time. It's the mean, vindictive people who are essentially saying "if you can kill me then the least I can do is annoy you". It's not really in the spirit of the game but there it is.
But xp loss? I would just play it differnetly. I would come back 2 or 3 times. If I couldn't get you I would acknowledge that you are a superior force. So I would just get reinforcements and come back and wipe you. Of course you would do the same and eventually we would have a good ol' fashioned bar brawl. And that's fun.
But don't think xp loss is going to make me stop just because I can't get you. All that means is I need a larger army.
The thing is that in WoW, it wouldnt matter who I killed. If I kill someone at an exp spot they ARE going to come back and attack. That is how the PvP servers were in WoW. They weren't vindictive, they just wanted revenge and because they didn't lose anything they feel like they have to get even.
The game enabled them to get even too, because once they die they are invulnerable, they can just watch you and wait until you engage something then rez and kill you. They kill you once, and now they feel "even".
They've won? Only because the game is retarded and lets them be invulnerable. If you lose, you should lose. PvP shouldn't be about time investment like it is in WoW.. the person who invests more time into annoying the other person wins. PvP should be about winning and losing. You kill someone, you win.
Like I said, if your gear stayed on your corpse, you would probably need permission from the person who killed you to get your gear back. If you tell them you are gonna attack them, they will just kill you before you get your gear, making you lose even more exp.
In EQ, once you PvP and kill someone, you basically have won. The losers accept their loss and move on, because the person who killed them will show mercy and let them get their stuff and get their exp restored through a rez.
And people wouldn't generally help them get their corpse back unless the guy was not letting them get their gear. The first thing people do after dying in an exp spot is ask for Loot and Scoot. If that doesn't work, that is when you get a huge war. Most people won't want to waste time or risk their own exp for something that can be solved by asking for LNS.
It does not make it more meaningfull than a gamer who wants to log in once in a while and measure his skills with other players without having to spent much of his limited time on death recovering.
Well then it sounds like "That Gamer" should stick to multiplayer shooters
To the OP just Dieing in general means you have to reset , rebuff and even reclear trash mobs depending on the game, or get a whole new SHIP like in eve witch everything takes time, you lose time , Real life time is the biggest death Penalty nothing can top that.
As for open pvp deaths i think it would be stupid to have more of a penalty for being jumped for 4 guys higher than your level or what ever. thats just stupid lets penalize the level 30 for being killed by 4 60's. Running back as ghost is penalty enough it uses RL time!
Who said start over? No one said to lose everything.
And it's not like newer MMORPGs are going to beat WoW at being a casual game.
A new MMORPG will have to be different, maybe more harsh, but not at the same level as Darkfall was.
EQ1 with its PvP servers would definitely take over the other portion of the market, the people who hate WoW and how meaningless and easy everything is.
In EQ you would only lose exp if the guy was within a certain level range. So a 60 killing a 30 won't make the 30 lose exp. A 30 killing a 30 would, so if you're leveling in the same area as someone else and kill them, they lose exp and give up the exp spot.
I guess you try to be smart but it just makes no sense...
It does not make it more meaningfull than a gamer who wants to log in once in a while and measure his skills with other players without having to spent much of his limited time on death recovering.
He's only gonna die if he plays carelessly, like how people play in MMORPGs without death penalties.
And if he's dying all the time, I think he knows how he measures vs other players, especially if he's stuck at level 1.
I don't think people who keep dying should be able to reach max level. Reaching max level should take some skill and effort, it should not be free like it is in WoW.
Why would I want to do a pick-up-group raid with someone who died 500 times per level? They should be stuck at certain levels until they become more efficient and learn to play
In EQ you would only lose exp if the guy was within a certain level range. So a 60 killing a 30 won't make the 30 lose exp. A 30 killing a 30 would, so if you're leveling in the same area as someone else and kill them, they lose exp and give up the exp spot.
So you lose the exp spot than that sucks enough, and if your talking EQ there is no pvp balance in the game wouldnt be smart for a death penalty for pvp death
Death penaltys can be made so many ways in RPGames
for example game shuts all your chatwindows down from all your characters for 4 hours.
or trade options too if you are crafter/salesman etc.
looting window if you are hunter/warrior/explorer etc etc.
Generation P
I guess you try to be smart but it just makes no sense...
Im just saying that a gamer that only has limited time and only wants to play once in a while is more suited for multiplayer games than MMOs, its just an observation
In EQ you would only lose exp if the guy was within a certain level range. So a 60 killing a 30 won't make the 30 lose exp. A 30 killing a 30 would, so if you're leveling in the same area as someone else and kill them, they lose exp and give up the exp spot.
So you lose the exp spot than that sucks enough, and if your talking EQ there is no pvp balance in the game wouldnt be smart for a death penalty for pvp death
It wasn't balanced at all. But still, the classes that were weak tended to be overpowered in group play.
PvP during leveling wasn't that common either. Each team had control over certain zones, meaning if you are on the good team you are generally not going to encounter a neutral or evil team member in one of your faction-controlled zones.
MMO for no-lifers only?
I am not buying that one.
MMO for no-lifers only?
I am not buying that one.
Thats not what I meant eaither, but because you make it sound like they would only play once a week if not less, besides, I have no problem however long someone plays, its just someone with that not amount of time couldn't get that far in a game, which is another reason why I quit WoW and play alot of console games now
I bought some time ago a month gametime for Anarchy Online,I played once in a while and my goal was to earn 1000 000 000 credits just by making business.
and i made it and i was quite happy
depends what you want from a game.
Generation P
I bought some time ago a month gametime for Anarchy Online,I played once in a while and my goal was to earn 1000 000 000 credits just by making business.
and i made it and i was quite happy
depends what you want from a game.
Thats true aswell
Because I die in PVP, I can't progress in levels?
I also die in PVE a lot because it is boring as hell for me and I can't stand any grind. Can't I join your raid either?
Did you ever try to respect other people and their opinions? So far you did not bring any arguments, only unfound opinions on how others should play their game.
Because I die in PVP, I can't progress in levels?
I also die in PVE a lot because it is boring as hell for me and I can't stand any grind. Can't I join your raid either?
Did you ever try to respect other people and their opinions? So far you did not bring any arguments, only unfound opinions on how others should play their game.
It's only a grind when you are playing an MMORPG with easy mode PvE content. Otherwise leveling can be fun.
And you're right, it is "their game" I guess. Because companies are only catering to the interests of people who never played MMORPGs before, the masses.
What about people who played MMORPGs when they were actually difficult? Who do we complain to that MMORPG companies have systematically made their games boring and dumbed down?
I don't get why you are arguing though, go play WoW. That game doesn't have a death penalty, and WoW isn't going away anytime soon. Some people here just don't want there to be an alternative MMORPG for skilled players, or players who enjoy a challenge.
I once did a PUG raid in WoW and this 1 person kept wiping the raid on a certain boss in Naxx. Do you think I enjoy raiding with people like that? When I see a level 60, I want that to be enough for me to let them join my raid. Unfortunately, when the leveling system lets everyone through, it's harder to filter out the skilled players.
There is 99% MMO market consisting of +100M players disgreeing with you that MMOs are boring.
As I said before, do not complain - respect it.
EDIT:
Free market is going to help your issue. Most of the developers will try to focus on mainstream games but there will be some that will try to make things differently so they do not have to compete with everyone but speak to specific audience.
This is just natural and works for any market. It is not the companies shaping the future of the games opposed to what you think, it is the gamers.
Ugh, another "Why my opinion is right and yours is wrong" thread.
No, games don't need a harsh death penalty.
No, games don't need to punish the player with unnecessary timesinks upon death.
No, games don't need to let you "hurt people" in PvP.
No, games don't need harsh death penalties for the sake of the ethereal "immersion".
No, people who disagree with you are not "carebears".
No, you are not "hardcore" either.
No, game developers are not pathetic because they don't do what you want.
No, "most people" don't agree with you.
You might want a sound whipping every time you die, but most of us are happy with a spanking.
Any death penalty that causes significant disruption to my gaming time is unacceptable.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
I don't like death penalties because they were in my first MMORPG. I like them because they made the game more fun.
Your argument about DP's is off as well. No one said we enjoyed the Death Penalty. We said that it makes "not dying" more meaningful. I don't think anyone here has said dying is fun in games with a death penalty..
What does being #1 have to do with death penalties? I said that games like WoW hand out level 80's, and you're a number, and everything is given away for free, and leveling is not challenging. You can't be somebody when there are so many people with the same level, same stuff as you. Once they put in penalties, make leveling difficult, and limit server population, then people will be somebody on their server again.
Like I said, I just copied and pasted that response which was from another similar, though not exactly duplicate, thread on the subject.
Ignore the first and last parts and focus on the meat in the middle. Don't you agree that monetary/economic penalty is better than exp loss? That's why EVE does it right. You control (to an extent) how harsh the death penalty is.
This is so true ,these 60 level people do have Mike Tysons title but if they go ring with him ....
Generation P
you know, I've been thinking about the whole wow thing and it suddenly occured to me that WoW in the end is not trying to accomplish what a lot of "more hardcore" pvp'ers want.
The whole idea is for wow to be very accessible to anyone at all levels. This is not to say it doesn't get harder but essentially its misson statement is not about what you are arguing for.
I did hear that they somehow ruined world pvp, and I'm not clear about that, whether it was the battlegrounds or some other thing, however I think WoW was always about less penalties.
Since that is the case you can't really argue that it should have more becuase it never wanted that.
I would say that if they applied Wow's ideas to lineage 2 or shadowbane or darkfall or "pick your favorite hardcore pvp game" then I could see people getting upset.
Also, I would say that if they did lose something then they would want to get you "even MORE".
You are under the idea that if there was a harsher death penalty in wow then people would give up sooner rather than later. But in lineage 2 that never happend. People would get their whole alliance if you messed with them.
So essentialy a player will always come back to get you if they are not a complete pve player. I've know more pve players who just don't want to be bothered with the whole pvp thing.
Also, since I just realized that you are mostly talking about pvp instead of pve then I have to ammend my statement about wow's death penalty. In pve I generally turn the game off after about 2 or 3 deaths. So you are right, the death penatly in wow doesn't dissuade.
But I will tell you this, even if you added the same death penalty as L2 you would still have a fight on your hands, you would just be facing a larger group of people.
Which may or may not be a good thing depending on what you are looking for.
I'm surprised you don't play lineage 2.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo