I am sure both are going to be successful. On the other hand, measuring the success that these games are going to have is slightly more difficult then another MMO to another. One is a game that does not have a monthly subscription, but one does. That alone makes it harder to judge.
I voted for SWTOR for two reasons:
1) The hype surrounding SWTOR is far greater..believe it or not. Major gaming sites cover them more, the Star Wars franchise has tons of appeal to more people then the average MMO, and it has a huge investment towards advertising as well as promotions. (Most of which we have not even seen yet)
The second reason is more about my personal taste so I guess it doesn't really belong here. It may also be the feeling some people have as well though and could be one of the reasons GW2 is not as successful as SWTOR in the long run.
2) The original Guild Wars was a great game with tons of appeal, but the lasting power was rather small for most people. For myself, I just got bored with such a low level cap and items not really mattering. Part of the fun of MMOs for me has always been character development and that bar was set really low in GW1.
Now I understand the bar is going to be much higher in GW2, but it still could suffer from the same problems (for me atleast) in the end game. PvP is fun for a while, but I need PvE to be fun as well. (and need a reason to do it) We have not seen much of endgame to make a really good judgement call on it though, so I will hold off on saying anything further about that. This is similar with many gamers though. People want PvP to be a huge portion of an MMO, but PvE has to be a huge part too. Not just for leveling, but for end game as well.
Anyone else having horrible flash backs to the myriad of AoC vs WAR threads about 2 and a half years ago?
not horrible , but yeah...but this will always happen but both of these game are held to higher standards then War or AoC were The dark time of gaming is over AAA releases will always be polished and have very very very game-breaking bugs
Guild Wars 2 is a Buy to Play game, which means it will cost about $60 up front and then no subscription fee. Just knowing that there is a B2P AAA MMO coming has put me off P2P MMOs forever. I never bought Rift, never resubbed WoW for Cataclysm despite having been given a free copy, won't be interested in any upcoming MMO that is P2P either.
Here are some videos of Top 10 reasons to be interested in GW2 and 10 little things to like about GW2. They contain some inaccuracies but they really capture why we're excited about it. They're worth spending a few minutes watching each. Seeing reason #4 in the first video and knowing there's no subscription fee just blows me away.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Guild Wars 2 is a Buy to Play game, which means it will cost about $60 up front and then no subscription fee. Just knowing that there is a B2P AAA MMO coming has put me off P2P MMOs forever. I never bought Rift, never resubbed WoW for Cataclysm despite having been given a free copy, won't be interested in any upcoming MMO that is P2P either.
Here are some videos of Top 10 reasons to be interested in GW2 and 10 little things to like about GW2. They contain some inaccuracies but they really capture why we're excited about it. They're worth spending a few minutes watching each. Seeing reason #4 in the first video and knowing there's no subscription fee just blows me away.
For many people 15 bucks a month is just not an issue. Sure, for some it's to expensive, and there's nothing wrong with that, but for most people the price of two movies a month (actually less) which is only 4 hours tops of entertainment, for unlimited game play is a real bargain.
I'm interested in TOR for a number of reasons.
I like the graphics. One big thing that turned me off from WoW. I just never liked those graphics, just thought they were ugly, although it's very subjective.
I want to see what the Hero Engine can do. Hero engine is now available for a cheap indie license, and will soon be available as a free "cloud" version.
I saw the game play trailers and they look good. I especially like the group based missions where everyone gets to roll to decide what choice to make on the mission.
It's star wars.
It's Pay to Play. I don't like cash shops. Nothing against anyone that plays cash shop games, but I don't like them. I actually like P2P over B2P.
I prefer that there is a minimum barrier to entry, 15 bucks a month. There's plenty of free to play games, and B2P games are getting more popular, so nothing against those people that want to play those games.
I like how the game seems to be shaping up, although, I do not know all of the details of course. The graphics don't bother me at all, I actually quite like them. Some say cartoony or childish but what I see is stylised.
There are some things I would have liked to see done differently, of course, but I am still very much excited for the game.
To be perfectly honest regarding Guild Wars 2, I have not heard much about it at all. It really hasn't been on my radar. I played the first Guild Wars for quite some time but it never really struck a chord with me, I didn't care for the skill system or the instanced everything. I did like the graphics they employed though, if nothing else you could say the game was beautiful and the characters were detailed.
Like previous posters I have no problem at all with paying a monthly premium to play SW:TOR for a quality experience. Plus (I hate to sound elitist or like an old fogey) it provides that barrier of entry for the younger generation. Don't get me wrong, I know that teens can be mature and that adults can be childish but, on the whole, children are called children and adults are called adults for a reason. It keeps me from having to deal with an onslaught of behaviour I'd rather avoid.
Plus, in SW:TOR you get to use lightsabers, who can beat that?
Guild Wars 2 for so many reasons. Mainly though they have been and are doing something different, and advancing this genre in some direction. They ooze passion for games and what they do, and you can feel that these guys truly love the project and I know it will show in their work.
Then you have the SWTOR mmo clone #23 bringing nothing new to the table other than watered down versions of what is already milked in all of their single player games. The presentations are let downs, the design choices wholy lack creativity, originality and innovation. Every time I see anything that isn't a high production quality cut screne or staged fake demo it just looks bad.
Both have too much hype though. Both will be letdowns to a huge majority of people that buy into the hype. SWTOR though will reflect it with subs, dying servers, and all those nasty things that come with an overhyped clone MMO launch. GW2 will sell it's boxes and let its game age before releasing a slick expansion and dragging everyone back in along with new players. No sub means no commitment. The boxes will sell.
Like previous posters I have no problem at all with paying a monthly premium to play SW:TOR for a quality experience. Plus (I hate to sound elitist or like an old fogey) it provides that barrier of entry for the younger generation. Don't get me wrong, I know that teens can be mature and that adults can be childish but, on the whole, children are called children and adults are called adults for a reason. It keeps me from having to deal with an onslaught of behaviour I'd rather avoid.
Doesn't work. People stop using the subscription fee as an argument for the concept that P2P have a more mature crowd, the communities in games such as WoW, Rift, DCUO have proven that this simply isn't true.
For many people 15 bucks a month is just not an issue. Sure, for some it's to expensive, and there's nothing wrong with that, but for most people the price of two movies a month (actually less) which is only 4 hours tops of entertainment, for unlimited game play is a real bargain.
It's Pay to Play. I don't like cash shops. Nothing against anyone that plays cash shop games, but I don't like them. I actually like P2P over B2P.
I prefer that there is a minimum barrier to entry, 15 bucks a month. There's plenty of free to play games, and B2P games are getting more popular, so nothing against those people that want to play those games.
... if 15 bucks a month for unlimited game play is a real bargain, then isn't 0 dollars a month for unlimited game play an even BETTER bargain? ... just saying.
... also, what other MMOs are B2P? Can't think of any off the top of my head.
... and I wouldn't be TOO surprised if SW:ToR has a cash shop too. I mean, maybe you haven't played any of Bioware's RPGs lately, but they really like the microtransactions.
For many people 15 bucks a month is just not an issue. Sure, for some it's to expensive, and there's nothing wrong with that, but for most people the price of two movies a month (actually less) which is only 4 hours tops of entertainment, for unlimited game play is a real bargain.
It's Pay to Play. I don't like cash shops. Nothing against anyone that plays cash shop games, but I don't like them. I actually like P2P over B2P.
I prefer that there is a minimum barrier to entry, 15 bucks a month. There's plenty of free to play games, and B2P games are getting more popular, so nothing against those people that want to play those games.
... if 15 bucks a month for unlimited game play is a real bargain, then isn't 0 dollars a month for unlimited game play an even BETTER bargain? ... just saying.
... also, what other MMOs are B2P? Can't think of any off the top of my head.
... and I wouldn't be TOO surprised if SW:ToR has a cash shop too. I mean, maybe you haven't played any of Bioware's RPGs lately, but they really like the microtransactions.
Shhhh! It isn't a cashshop! It's called DLC-on-launch.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Is this thread still going strong? Meh, these constant childish 'my game is bigger than yours, na na na na' epeen debates...
Yup, still going. Too many necromancers on these forums. Let's hope their numbers will be limited in GW2.
Damn, I already wondered why all these threads seemed familiar. It's the same thread that keeps popping up time and time again since more than a year ago!
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
GW2 without a doubt with TSW in second place, SWTOR nor archeage are high on my personal watch list...
For me paying monthly subs is a non issue however i am done with buying the same already chewed bubblegum that has been re-pressed and packaged in a new wrapper and hyped as all new, to me it just leaves a bad bitter taste in my mouth..
Game devs and their bloated hype and copycat cookie cutter products are generally made more for the younger gamers whom havent "been there and done that" quite enough yet..
Its really unfortunate that the industry is still in the year 2004 creativity wise...
Is this thread still going strong? Meh, these constant childish 'my game is bigger than yours, na na na na' epeen debates...
Nono, we're past that.
Now we're on to 'My game uses a better pricing structure than your game does, nyah nyah'.
It's like kindergarteners arguing economics!
You can't get this kind of entertainment in any of the more boring threads.
I think Buy to Play and Pay to Play are different pricing structures that do not affect the game.
They both involve paying for the game with real life money that is not inside the game world. You either pay and play the game, or you do not pay and you do not play the game. There is no advantage one way or the other after you buy the game or pay the monthly fee, if you are broke or a millionaire, since real life cash doesn't enter the game world.
however, cash shops become part of the game, since they allow real life money inside the game world.
Once you do that, it's not just a pricing structure, it's a part of the game.
I think the problem is that people often, but not always, confuse prefer with better.
I prefer to play a P2P game.
That doesn't mean it's better than a cash shop game. It's what I like to play. If you like cash shop games, that's fine with me. doesn't bother me, or affect me in the least, since I don't play them.
Some people do say one sucks, and the other is better, and we have players on both sides of that argument.
Is this thread still going strong? Meh, these constant childish 'my game is bigger than yours, na na na na' epeen debates...
Yup, still going. Too many necromancers on these forums. Let's hope their numbers will be limited in GW2.
Damn, I already wondered why all these threads seemed familiar. It's the same thread that keeps popping up time and time again since more than a year ago!
however, cash shops become part of the game, since they allow real life money inside the game world.
Once you do that, it's not just a pricing structure, it's a part of the game.
I think the problem is that people often, but not always, confuse prefer with better.
I prefer to play a P2P game.
That doesn't mean it's better than a cash shop game. It's what I like to play. If you like cash shop games, that's fine with me. doesn't bother me, or affect me in the least, since I don't play them.
... I'm shocked you took that 'Which one is better' comment seriously.
SHOCKED.
You've done so many posts, and you still can't tell when somebody is serious or not.
More seriously, are you against cosmetic cash shops as well, or just the pay to win style cash shop?
... how about expansions? They allow real life money to let people become better within the game (Check out that higher level cap!)
I'm just curious how/where you draw the line.
Because even P2P games have cash shops nowadays. Like... well, most of them.
however, cash shops become part of the game, since they allow real life money inside the game world.
Once you do that, it's not just a pricing structure, it's a part of the game.
I think the problem is that people often, but not always, confuse prefer with better.
I prefer to play a P2P game.
That doesn't mean it's better than a cash shop game. It's what I like to play. If you like cash shop games, that's fine with me. doesn't bother me, or affect me in the least, since I don't play them.
... I'm shocked you took that 'Which one is better' comment seriously.
SHOCKED.
You've done so many posts, and you still can't tell when somebody is serious or not.
More seriously, are you against cosmetic cash shops as well, or just the pay to win style cash shop?
... how about expansions? They allow real life money to let people become better within the game (Check out that higher level cap!)
I'm just curious how/where you draw the line.
Because even P2P games have cash shops nowadays. Like... well, most of them.
Comments
I am seriously hyped for GW2's world PVP. I lost most interest in swtor with the space on rails announcment.
I am sure both are going to be successful. On the other hand, measuring the success that these games are going to have is slightly more difficult then another MMO to another. One is a game that does not have a monthly subscription, but one does. That alone makes it harder to judge.
I voted for SWTOR for two reasons:
1) The hype surrounding SWTOR is far greater..believe it or not. Major gaming sites cover them more, the Star Wars franchise has tons of appeal to more people then the average MMO, and it has a huge investment towards advertising as well as promotions. (Most of which we have not even seen yet)
The second reason is more about my personal taste so I guess it doesn't really belong here. It may also be the feeling some people have as well though and could be one of the reasons GW2 is not as successful as SWTOR in the long run.
2) The original Guild Wars was a great game with tons of appeal, but the lasting power was rather small for most people. For myself, I just got bored with such a low level cap and items not really mattering. Part of the fun of MMOs for me has always been character development and that bar was set really low in GW1.
Now I understand the bar is going to be much higher in GW2, but it still could suffer from the same problems (for me atleast) in the end game. PvP is fun for a while, but I need PvE to be fun as well. (and need a reason to do it) We have not seen much of endgame to make a really good judgement call on it though, so I will hold off on saying anything further about that. This is similar with many gamers though. People want PvP to be a huge portion of an MMO, but PvE has to be a huge part too. Not just for leveling, but for end game as well.
Anyone else having horrible flash backs to the myriad of AoC vs WAR threads about 2 and a half years ago?
SW TOR,because it has the good old group mechanics(tank/dps/healer) for "dungeons"/raids.
not horrible , but yeah...but this will always happen but both of these game are held to higher standards then War or AoC were The dark time of gaming is over AAA releases will always be polished and have very very very game-breaking bugs
For me it's Guild wars 2 because i really have nothing in common with starwars.
Guild Wars 2 is a Buy to Play game, which means it will cost about $60 up front and then no subscription fee. Just knowing that there is a B2P AAA MMO coming has put me off P2P MMOs forever. I never bought Rift, never resubbed WoW for Cataclysm despite having been given a free copy, won't be interested in any upcoming MMO that is P2P either.
Here are some videos of Top 10 reasons to be interested in GW2 and 10 little things to like about GW2. They contain some inaccuracies but they really capture why we're excited about it. They're worth spending a few minutes watching each. Seeing reason #4 in the first video and knowing there's no subscription fee just blows me away.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
For many people 15 bucks a month is just not an issue. Sure, for some it's to expensive, and there's nothing wrong with that, but for most people the price of two movies a month (actually less) which is only 4 hours tops of entertainment, for unlimited game play is a real bargain.
I'm interested in TOR for a number of reasons.
I like the graphics. One big thing that turned me off from WoW. I just never liked those graphics, just thought they were ugly, although it's very subjective.
I want to see what the Hero Engine can do. Hero engine is now available for a cheap indie license, and will soon be available as a free "cloud" version.
I saw the game play trailers and they look good. I especially like the group based missions where everyone gets to roll to decide what choice to make on the mission.
It's star wars.
It's Pay to Play. I don't like cash shops. Nothing against anyone that plays cash shop games, but I don't like them. I actually like P2P over B2P.
I prefer that there is a minimum barrier to entry, 15 bucks a month. There's plenty of free to play games, and B2P games are getting more popular, so nothing against those people that want to play those games.
Guild Wars 2 by miles and miles.
Star Wars: The Old Republic to be sure.
I like how the game seems to be shaping up, although, I do not know all of the details of course. The graphics don't bother me at all, I actually quite like them. Some say cartoony or childish but what I see is stylised.
There are some things I would have liked to see done differently, of course, but I am still very much excited for the game.
To be perfectly honest regarding Guild Wars 2, I have not heard much about it at all. It really hasn't been on my radar. I played the first Guild Wars for quite some time but it never really struck a chord with me, I didn't care for the skill system or the instanced everything. I did like the graphics they employed though, if nothing else you could say the game was beautiful and the characters were detailed.
Like previous posters I have no problem at all with paying a monthly premium to play SW:TOR for a quality experience. Plus (I hate to sound elitist or like an old fogey) it provides that barrier of entry for the younger generation. Don't get me wrong, I know that teens can be mature and that adults can be childish but, on the whole, children are called children and adults are called adults for a reason. It keeps me from having to deal with an onslaught of behaviour I'd rather avoid.
Plus, in SW:TOR you get to use lightsabers, who can beat that?
I could care less about either game, both see like more of the same to me with little twists.
I'm really looking forward to Arche Age, seems like the only mmo on the horizon that seems completely different from what i'm used to.
Guild Wars 2 for so many reasons. Mainly though they have been and are doing something different, and advancing this genre in some direction. They ooze passion for games and what they do, and you can feel that these guys truly love the project and I know it will show in their work.
Then you have the SWTOR mmo clone #23 bringing nothing new to the table other than watered down versions of what is already milked in all of their single player games. The presentations are let downs, the design choices wholy lack creativity, originality and innovation. Every time I see anything that isn't a high production quality cut screne or staged fake demo it just looks bad.
Both have too much hype though. Both will be letdowns to a huge majority of people that buy into the hype. SWTOR though will reflect it with subs, dying servers, and all those nasty things that come with an overhyped clone MMO launch. GW2 will sell it's boxes and let its game age before releasing a slick expansion and dragging everyone back in along with new players. No sub means no commitment. The boxes will sell.
Doesn't work. People stop using the subscription fee as an argument for the concept that P2P have a more mature crowd, the communities in games such as WoW, Rift, DCUO have proven that this simply isn't true.
... if 15 bucks a month for unlimited game play is a real bargain, then isn't 0 dollars a month for unlimited game play an even BETTER bargain? ... just saying.
... also, what other MMOs are B2P? Can't think of any off the top of my head.
... and I wouldn't be TOO surprised if SW:ToR has a cash shop too. I mean, maybe you haven't played any of Bioware's RPGs lately, but they really like the microtransactions.
Shhhh! It isn't a cashshop! It's called DLC-on-launch.
: )
Is this thread still going strong? Meh, these constant childish 'my game is bigger than yours, na na na na' epeen debates...
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Nono, we're past that.
Now we're on to 'My game uses a better pricing structure than your game does, nyah nyah'.
It's like kindergarteners arguing economics!
You can't get this kind of entertainment in any of the more boring threads.
Yup, still going. Too many necromancers on these forums. Let's hope their numbers will be limited in GW2.
Damn, I already wondered why all these threads seemed familiar. It's the same thread that keeps popping up time and time again since more than a year ago!
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
GW2 without a doubt with TSW in second place, SWTOR nor archeage are high on my personal watch list...
For me paying monthly subs is a non issue however i am done with buying the same already chewed bubblegum that has been re-pressed and packaged in a new wrapper and hyped as all new, to me it just leaves a bad bitter taste in my mouth..
Game devs and their bloated hype and copycat cookie cutter products are generally made more for the younger gamers whom havent "been there and done that" quite enough yet..
Its really unfortunate that the industry is still in the year 2004 creativity wise...
Playing GW2..
I think Buy to Play and Pay to Play are different pricing structures that do not affect the game.
They both involve paying for the game with real life money that is not inside the game world. You either pay and play the game, or you do not pay and you do not play the game. There is no advantage one way or the other after you buy the game or pay the monthly fee, if you are broke or a millionaire, since real life cash doesn't enter the game world.
however, cash shops become part of the game, since they allow real life money inside the game world.
Once you do that, it's not just a pricing structure, it's a part of the game.
I think the problem is that people often, but not always, confuse prefer with better.
I prefer to play a P2P game.
That doesn't mean it's better than a cash shop game. It's what I like to play. If you like cash shop games, that's fine with me. doesn't bother me, or affect me in the least, since I don't play them.
Some people do say one sucks, and the other is better, and we have players on both sides of that argument.
... I'm shocked you took that 'Which one is better' comment seriously.
SHOCKED.
You've done so many posts, and you still can't tell when somebody is serious or not.
More seriously, are you against cosmetic cash shops as well, or just the pay to win style cash shop?
... how about expansions? They allow real life money to let people become better within the game (Check out that higher level cap!)
I'm just curious how/where you draw the line.
Because even P2P games have cash shops nowadays. Like... well, most of them.
No, just the most successful P2P-games.
GW2 is ontop of my hype list. Follow by Firefall, TSW, Archage and other innovative mmo lol.
Pardon my English as it is not my 1st language