Personally, I've found that WoW has become a shell of the game it once was. No longer does it have that epic feeling it once had. It's more like a Phantasy Star Online type of thing. You log in, you sit around in Dalaran in a queue, a random instance pops, you fight, you almost never speak (it wouldn't matter if you did, you'll never be able to talk to those people later because you can't add them to a friend list anyway, so no more grouping with them unless you get them randomly again), you fight a bit more, you leave the dungeon. Then you go back to sitting in Dalaran waiting for the next random instance to pop and continue on with that.
Now, some could say, "you don't have to do it that way!" Oh no, surely you do not, but because everyone else is, no one is LFG anymore in chat, they just hit that little button and they know, guaranteed there will be an instance for them shortly. It's kind of ruined the whole experience of teamwork, because its more like hiring a couple of people like in Guild Wars, going to do one of the bazillion instances, growing bored, logging.
Even in guilds, people don't do tons of stuff together anymore except for the occasional raid and hell, I think I heard tell of them putting in a raid finder, so that kind of puts a fork in that situation.
Overall, I find WoW to be utterly repetitive and incredibly boring and thats coming from someone who, up until all these changes were made, had been playing for about five years. I loved the game, I loved the feeling I had when I was logging in, like I was going on some adventure, but unfortunately now I'm just basically sitting in a queue for this or that.
Overall, I've decided to move onto other games. I no longer feel that WoW is that game that I must go back to, at all. Because well, its not really an MMO anymore.
Originally posted by Alberel To the people saying to just not use the dungeon finder... errm why don't you go ahead and try it. Now that everyone uses the dungeon finder it's almost impossible to find a group any other way.
The point i was making was that if you want to play the game a particular way there is nothing stopping you if you are willing to put in a little effort to get it. I did manage to find groups without any problems for the last five years and i manage to get groups together now and i do so as well as i always have done within my guild and with people i know socially within the game as i also enjoy a chat and a laugh as i play.
It is a time honoured gripe about all MMO's and especially WoW, to whinge about the social aspects and lack of communication, but i always find that it just comes down to some personal effort. I have seen people come into groups, say nothing and then moan that no-one else is saying anything???? It is amazing how far a simple "hello" or "hey guys" will go to break the ice and start a conversation going regardless of the group. That being said, there are just anti-social people all over the place in game and in real life and some poeple you just won't get along with, but that is just life!
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
Heck i can even attach the RPG affix that most games shy away from these days.
Ergo OP you are wrong. This does not make your opinion wrong, since they can't be right or wrong but your wording of the title is way off base.
Wether it is more or less massive, multiplayer or online then before is a matter of taste but i feel the LFG tool made it more massive atleast, since i can do more things and see more places. More multiplayer as i meet more players and i am not sure how to make it more Online.
Edit: Also to the guy above me. Why are you sitting i a city waiting for a portal... Go out in the world, you no longer need to be in a city to get a group you can be anywere. No longer do you need to hang by the meetingstone spamming any random passerby. Quest, grind or enjoy the scenery. You create your own cage.
Where is it massive? When you wait in a city? When you run a instanced dungeon? When you run a instanced raid? When you go to a instanced battleground or arena?
raystantzFinal Fantasy XI CorrespondentMemberUncommonPosts: 1,237
Originally posted by jason_webb
Originally posted by Alberel
To the people saying to just not use the dungeon finder... errm why don't you go ahead and try it. Now that everyone uses the dungeon finder it's almost impossible to find a group any other way.
The point i was making was that if you want to play the game a particular way there is nothing stopping you if you are willing to put in a little effort to get it. I did manage to find groups without any problems for the last five years and i manage to get groups together now and i do so as well as i always have done within my guild and with people i know socially within the game as i also enjoy a chat and a laugh as i play.
It is a time honoured gripe about all MMO's and especially WoW, to whinge about the social aspects and lack of communication, but i always find that it just comes down to some personal effort. I have seen people come into groups, say nothing and then moan that no-one else is saying anything???? It is amazing how far a simple "hello" or "hey guys" will go to break the ice and start a conversation going regardless of the group. That being said, there are just anti-social people all over the place in game and in real life and some poeple you just won't get along with, but that is just life!
See, I'd agree with you.. If I hadn't already been down that road.
Typical instance run...
Me: Hey guys..
(silence)
Me: How's everyone doing?
(silence)
Me: WoW everyone is so quiet
Player: I'm just here to get this instance done.
Me: What's up guys?
(silence)
The only conversation that is ever had is when we have someone in the group who someone has an issue with thats stopping them from getting the instance completed. Noone cares about socializing anymore. Its all about getting rewarded for something.
www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules
Currently playing:
FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA.
When the dungeon finder came out I stated that it would only serve to hasten the decline of socialization in MMO's and as we see in this thread, I was pretty much spot on.
Sure, it has advantages in getting people to get through instanced dungeon content much easier, but the cost in terms of player interaction (yes, folks you must force players to interact in an MMO for them to learn to play nice) it is an utter disaster.
I hope to never see such a feature implemented in a newly released MMORPG and if I find out a game has such a mechanic then I will defintiely avoid it.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
When the dungeon finder came out I stated that it would only serve to hasten the decline of socialization in MMO's and as we see in this thread, I was pretty much spot on.
Sure, it has advantages in getting people to get through instanced dungeon content much easier, but the cost in terms of player interaction (yes, folks you must force players to interact in an MMO for them to learn to play nice) it is an utter disaster.
I hope to never see such a feature implemented in a newly released MMORPG and if I find out a game has such a mechanic then I will defintiely avoid it.
Your a bit hasty on your conclusions, a thread from one player or even the 50 or so other people that posted out of 4 million can hardly be used as proof that you were right, while a minority does not like it, there is a majority who does and agrees this was a good move for WoW, I am sorry for the OP if he isnt having fun, but I know loads of people who have come back and are now playing regularly because of this feature because they couldnt be bothered with the endless group finding.
Next time why don't you just say you don't like the game any more instead of posting absurd assertions?
I am fairly sure thats what I said..
Just in a few more words.
How about this instead? "I don't like the direction the game has gone in".
To me it doesn't feel like an MMO anymore, because while there are tons of places to explore and adventure. The majority of the players are sitting in Dalaran, pressing "Queue for dungeon" over and over. Doesn't sound like a whole load of fun to me. I like the dungeon finder for its intended purpose. But I don't like how everyone sits in one spot and runs instances over and over..
I guess I am not seeing this on my server. Ours is alive and kicking. There is a new pride in being Horde and wtfbbqpwning the alliance across the board 0n our server. Guilds are building alliances among themselves to help run large scale raids on dungeons to get people geared so we can continue to make the alliance side of our server cry more. LOL! Seriously. Dungeon Finder is just a fast way for new 80's to get some decent gear so they can start doing the higher level raids. Sure the DF can be a pain and you'll get some bad players - but you would anyways if you were just pugging it the old way as well. I have been fortunate enough to pug with some great players from Spirestone and Silvermoon and I am on a totally different server. If anything this allows for us players from different servers to get together and share in adventures like never before. Even talked a non-guilded player to switch servers and come to mine to join a guild that is allied with the one I am in. He'll make a great addition to theirs with his tanking skills.
As for WoW...it is more of an MMORPG right now than a lot of others and as long as the game works and Blizzard continues to support it with everything they got - I'll continue to play. Having a blast! /cheer
Please dont cheat yourselves. To those that dont like the LFG tool, please tell me was it better before the LFG tool? Of course not. The LFG tool just add convenience. No need to be spending time traveling from one continent to the other, and if a player leave the group once you started it is easy to replace. Now tell me if that's a bad thing. Immature players will be found in any MMO. Like someone said over here, join a mature guild. If you are a solo player, sorry, but Blizzard it is not catering to just you.
I can say, YES the "game" as whole was alot better before this tool. Maybe finding groups was a bit more difficult, but the overrall experience of the game was MUCH better before this. I'm looking at the entire picture, not just whether I can get groups. I could get groups before the tool, just about as easily. If I wanted to make a group now without using the tool, it would be nigh impossible.. because EVERYONE uses it, even the people in my guild are almost always running random instances with it. Makes it sort of hard to form a guild group. And as a previous poster said, all the players care about is getting the "dungeon complete" popup. I've actually had leaders tell me that they weren't stopping to do any quests, or anything of the sort. They know that because they will probably never see me again, they can say whatever they want to me and I'll be ok with it.
Had one guy the other night, misqueue as the wrong class type and refused to leave the group so we could find the proper class. He made the mistake, not us. Yet he refused and made all the rest of us take the debuff. Had another one where the first thing that was said, was a rude remark towards the healer. The tank decided to take off and start the instance before the healer had mana..
Healer: If you want heals, I need mana please.
Tank: Whatever, I don't care. Keep up.
I don't find getting instance groups for lower level dungeons any faster with the tool. Because most people are past those instances and aren't running them anyway. sitting in queue for 30mins to an Hr is not fast.
You're making it sound like all pugs are like this and they are far from it. I have ran hundreds of pugs and I'd say a good 80% had really nice players and good ones at that. Very friendly people, some very talkative. In fact in one I actually made a new friend and he is in the process of switching to the server I play on. So if the DF is such a terrible thing - can I haz more please?
WoW is still alright... I would just like to filter out all of the kids that play.
I think you would be very sad to find that its not really the kids that play that cause the issues. There are far more grownups / older people that cause far more issues / drama / problems then the kids do.
This is from someone that has been in 21+ aged guilds where said older people caused more drama then the younger people in other guilds I have been in.
Please dont cheat yourselves. To those that dont like the LFG tool, please tell me was it better before the LFG tool? Of course not. The LFG tool just add convenience. No need to be spending time traveling from one continent to the other, and if a player leave the group once you started it is easy to replace. Now tell me if that's a bad thing. Immature players will be found in any MMO. Like someone said over here, join a mature guild. If you are a solo player, sorry, but Blizzard it is not catering to just you.
I can say, YES the "game" as whole was alot better before this tool. Maybe finding groups was a bit more difficult, but the overrall experience of the game was MUCH better before this. I'm looking at the entire picture, not just whether I can get groups. I could get groups before the tool, just about as easily. If I wanted to make a group now without using the tool, it would be nigh impossible.. because EVERYONE uses it, even the people in my guild are almost always running random instances with it. Makes it sort of hard to form a guild group. And as a previous poster said, all the players care about is getting the "dungeon complete" popup. I've actually had leaders tell me that they weren't stopping to do any quests, or anything of the sort. They know that because they will probably never see me again, they can say whatever they want to me and I'll be ok with it.
Had one guy the other night, misqueue as the wrong class type and refused to leave the group so we could find the proper class. He made the mistake, not us. Yet he refused and made all the rest of us take the debuff. Had another one where the first thing that was said, was a rude remark towards the healer. The tank decided to take off and start the instance before the healer had mana..
Healer: If you want heals, I need mana please.
Tank: Whatever, I don't care. Keep up.
I don't find getting instance groups for lower level dungeons any faster with the tool. Because most people are past those instances and aren't running them anyway. sitting in queue for 30mins to an Hr is not fast.
You're making it sound like all pugs are like this and they are far from it. I have ran hundreds of pugs and I'd say a good 80% had really nice players and good ones at that. Very friendly people, some very talkative. In fact in one I actually made a new friend and he is in the process of switching to the server I play on. So if the DF is such a terrible thing - can I haz more please?
Out of the 204 dungeons I have ran with my new Priest Alt. I have had maybe 10 (at the most) where there was someone or someone(s) that did nothing but caused issues.
10 out of 204 runs isn't a bad number.
Yes not all 204 of them was talk fests. But at the same time there was a fair number where people did talk and exchange talent builds / ideas and such.
I think some of the problem comes down to voice chat / vent. I myself much rather talk with someone on Vent then waste the time during / between a fight to talk with them in text. Text is slow, old, out dated format (when your fighting) to talk through. Combat in WoW is fast paced. With the exception of bosses most dungeon elite mobs can be blasted through within a min and when your pounding through a dungeon there generally isn't alot of time to talk between the battles. It's normally back to back pulls with the down time only being when your healer needs to mana up and that generally doesn't happen that often.
Maybe its just my server or something but outside the DF there is more then enough activity and talking. I join up with groups all the time to run through quests. So I don't see the problems of the OP atleast not on my server. If anything it made the game more massive since now I can interact with 10x the number of people I could before.
WoW is still alright... I would just like to filter out all of the kids that play.
I think you would be very sad to find that its not really the kids that play that cause the issues. There are far more grownups / older people that cause far more issues / drama / problems then the kids do.
This is from someone that has been in 21+ aged guilds where said older people caused more drama then the younger people in other guilds I have been in.
Aye, the kids might be annoying at times (they are kids - its what they do :P ) but a lot of the issues are caused by the adults who act worse than a 4 yearold throwing a temper tantrum in Toys R Us. One of the guilds I was in had plenty of teenages as well as adults. The adult players seemed to regress to a juvie state of mind (as if they were trying to compete mentally with the younger kids).
Hell, we even had instances of a few 30+ year old people throwing a hissy fit and crying (not whining, but actual tears and quivering voices and snotty sniveling) over vent because someone out rolled them on a piece of loot. And these were grown men ffs!
Add to that the IQ drop when a few of them started playing while getting drunk....
So yeah, its not just the kids that ruin WoW, its the general asshat mentality that a lot of players (young and old) have.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
I agree with the OP in the sense that I don't like the Dungeon Finder tool, it contributed to the reasons I left WoW for good. I was sick and tired of Drama, of all the MMO's out there the one where people seemed the most aggressive and angry is this one. Most of the times I spent random dungeoning was torture, either people demanded things of you that seemed unrealistic at all times or they were just downright rude.
As a tank all I would hear is "Pull faster! Hold Threat better!" and more of the same, keeping in mind that I've tanked in WoW for three years and I'm fairly good at it and enjoy pulling quickly without resting I think its really unrealistic how some of these people will treat their tanks.
That being said, when I would queue as a DPS I would find many tanks that had no idea how to AOE tank at all or how to chain pull. You would wind up in an instance that was not only dull but also extremely long. However, I myself never complained, while I watched many others did.
People have this "Who cares if I treat other people like utter crap" mentality, after all you'll never see them again, its a random dungeon. So you go around treating Random dungeons like 4 chan posts or trade chat or Barrens chat or the wall of a bathroom, you say as many offensive threatening or insulting things as you can muster.
It has become a little like guild wars. people gathering in cities waiting for the dungeon instance to start. the only need for them to go to certain places is to get there quests. its not the gameplay it used to be but it did the trick to me. i hope they'll bring back the old battleground honour ranking system so can i really get back into wow again
It has become a little like guild wars. people gathering in cities waiting for the dungeon instance to start. the only need for them to go to certain places is to get there quests. its not the gameplay it used to be but it did the trick to me. i hope they'll bring back the old battleground honour ranking system so can i really get back into wow again
They'd be cross server, which everyone in BG's has the same mentality they do in random dungeons, treat everyone like they're mentally challenged 3 year olds and talk down to them.
How many times have you seen people screaming in /bg about things that really don't even mater?
Whats killing WoW is the community is so large people don't care if they offend anyone they don't already know.
I agree with the OP in the sense that I don't like the Dungeon Finder tool, it contributed to the reasons I left WoW for good. I was sick and tired of Drama, of all the MMO's out there the one where people seemed the most aggressive and angry is this one. Most of the times I spent random dungeoning was torture, either people demanded things of you that seemed unrealistic at all times or they were just downright rude.
As a tank all I would hear is "Pull faster! Hold Threat better!" and more of the same, keeping in mind that I've tanked in WoW for three years and I'm fairly good at it and enjoy pulling quickly without resting I think its really unrealistic how some of these people will treat their tanks.
That being said, when I would queue as a DPS I would find many tanks that had no idea how to AOE tank at all or how to chain pull. You would wind up in an instance that was not only dull but also extremely long. However, I myself never complained, while I watched many others did.
People have this "Who cares if I treat other people like utter crap" mentality, after all you'll never see them again, its a random dungeon. So you go around treating Random dungeons like 4 chan posts or trade chat or Barrens chat or the wall of a bathroom, you say as many offensive threatening or insulting things as you can muster.
Mission Accomplished!
^This is exactally why I quit for the *counts on fingers* 6th time, the problem isn't the LFG itself it's the complete LACK of teamwork required in dungeons these days, Wrath really threw the 'social' aspect out the window by removing CC and basically turning the whole game into a 'mass pull to aoe everything down'.
The only soild reason for me to keep comming back is that I lucked out and found within the mess that is Kazzak-EU an actal muture community behind the gearscore spamming and general 'eliteisum'.
Aye Wrath and the LFG tool basically turned the game into Diablo 2.5, if I leave again I'll be comming back for Cata, now that Blizzard have actally got some ravils comming to take their great number of '11 million subs' they can't just sit about anymore dribbing in the odd new raid every so oftern and raises the level cap just to say 'look look it's new' when for TBC and Wrath it's basically the same as vanilla with more numbers in your stat window, Cata will either reboot the game for many or utterly kill it forever.
actually the dungeons require team work the thing is people have done this group in dungeons so many times it doesn't matter what class they play they know what to do. Same thing happened in bc and pre bc.
actually the dungeons require team work the thing is people have done this group in dungeons so many times it doesn't matter what class they play they know what to do. Same thing happened in bc and pre bc.
I remember Heroic spamming in BC...
I remember no one ever doing Bot or Shattered Halls or Shadow Labs.
I remember how much CC those took, how much team work you had to have to not wipe several times on each one of them.
Then I remember HMGT, the dungeon most people still to this day cannot solo, a level 70 heroic that required some really difficult team work. (I remember groups not even being able to get past the Arena fight before Kael, in a HEROIC)
I think its really time for some sites to rethink about Wow as a MMORPG, because since Wotlk it isn't one anylonger. I'm not talking about the easy mode more about the instant gratification which is a killer for a real MMORPG.
Mark my words the combination of Chilton and Greg bastard Street will kill this game!
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
When the dungeon finder came out I stated that it would only serve to hasten the decline of socialization in MMO's and as we see in this thread, I was pretty much spot on.
Sure, it has advantages in getting people to get through instanced dungeon content much easier, but the cost in terms of player interaction (yes, folks you must force players to interact in an MMO for them to learn to play nice) it is an utter disaster.
I hope to never see such a feature implemented in a newly released MMORPG and if I find out a game has such a mechanic then I will defintiely avoid it.
Your a bit hasty on your conclusions, a thread from one player or even the 50 or so other people that posted out of 4 million can hardly be used as proof that you were right, while a minority does not like it, there is a majority who does and agrees this was a good move for WoW, I am sorry for the OP if he isnt having fun, but I know loads of people who have come back and are now playing regularly because of this feature because they couldnt be bothered with the endless group finding.
That's Kyleran: he judges a game without even playing it.
And you have to be very "out of this world" if you think you can see the average WOW player on these mmorpg.com pages.
The problem is very simple: the players that are IN the game love the tool.
The players that left a time ago think they have again a stick to beat the 1200 lbs gorilla.
Problem is ... people that actively play the game love the mechanics introduced.
The weekly Raiding quests or VOA's are not even used by this LFG tool and ... are played massively too.
So strange to see comments of people about grouping and in game community who don't even know what they talk about over here.
Get over it: WOW is being played in groups - YOU choose - from level 15 to level 80 and you don't like it is the huge success. Blizzard can make a god send tool to whatever game mechanic and the droolers would come out and bash it.
Playing in dungeons and finding players on the fly within a 15 minutes time bracket at ANY level ... and these guys complain ... about what ??? about the fact they dont want to play.
LOL. So don't play.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
5 years later and i'm still having fun in this MMO. But i won't bash those that don't find it fun anymore, people get burnt out on games, its amazing i have lasted this long myself lol.
With Cataclysm on the Horizon i think i'll be here for a few more years =D
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
raystantzFinal Fantasy XI CorrespondentMemberUncommonPosts: 1,237
Originally posted by camp11111
Originally posted by rav3n2
Originally posted by Kyleran
When the dungeon finder came out I stated that it would only serve to hasten the decline of socialization in MMO's and as we see in this thread, I was pretty much spot on.
Sure, it has advantages in getting people to get through instanced dungeon content much easier, but the cost in terms of player interaction (yes, folks you must force players to interact in an MMO for them to learn to play nice) it is an utter disaster.
I hope to never see such a feature implemented in a newly released MMORPG and if I find out a game has such a mechanic then I will defintiely avoid it.
Your a bit hasty on your conclusions, a thread from one player or even the 50 or so other people that posted out of 4 million can hardly be used as proof that you were right, while a minority does not like it, there is a majority who does and agrees this was a good move for WoW, I am sorry for the OP if he isnt having fun, but I know loads of people who have come back and are now playing regularly because of this feature because they couldnt be bothered with the endless group finding.
That's Kyleran: he judges a game without even playing it.
And you have to be very "out of this world" if you think you can see the average WOW player on these mmorpg.com pages.
The problem is very simple: the players that are IN the game love the tool.
The players that left a time ago think they have again a stick to beat the 1200 lbs gorilla.
Problem is ... people that actively play the game love the mechanics introduced.
The weekly Raiding quests or VOA's are not even used by this LFG tool and ... are played massively too.
So strange to see comments of people about grouping and in game community who don't even know what they talk about over here.
Get over it: WOW is being played in groups - YOU choose - from level 15 to level 80 and you don't like it is the huge success. Blizzard can make a god send tool to whatever game mechanic and the droolers would come out and bash it.
Playing in dungeons and finding players on the fly within a 15 minutes time bracket at ANY level ... and these guys complain ... about what ??? about the fact they dont want to play.
LOL. So don't play.
Too bad I rarely get a group within 15 minutes most times. So try again. Maybe if your a healer or a tank that might be correct, but for a DPS class how fast you get a group depends on what level you are. Typically for me, its more like half an hr, and on my low level toons.. an hour or more. People still don't run those low level instances all that much, even with the DF. I've been trying to run Mara for a few weeks now, and haven't gotten a pop yet. I never said the tool wasnt a good idea. Its never the "tool" thats the problem, its how the players utilize it. Sure everyone who is using it in game loves it. Heck, I even love it, but at the same time it does have its drawbacks. Not because of how the tool is designed, but because of how people choose to use it. All the ghost town zones is proof of that. If you give people some way to do less work, thats exactly what they are going to do. People are just generally lazy.
If you gave people the option to click a button and automatically jump up 20 levels.. you can bet they'd all be clicking it in a heart beat. I can bet very few of them would still do it the old fashioned way. Thats the problem, its not the tools.. its the players.
www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules
Currently playing:
FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA.
This game is an e-sport now, if you aren't obsessed over maxing your raid efficiency or rolling people in the arena then you'll find your adventures in azeroth lacking. Most people are so critical of the smallest mistakes you'll find yourself hoping that the next group will be a mute one. In my experiences.
Exactly.. It's why our small guild of friends moved on.. WoW has turned into a raiding e-sport.. I won't even get into the psychological aspects of why people need to compete in games like this.. Have fun beating up, insulting, demigrating and backstabbing everyone you run across to get that extra .0056% dps..
PS edit: The coming addition of "guild leveling" system proves that point.. Our guild is bigger and better then your guild = Esport..
The Game has not turned into a lobby game, but i would say that i was more fun in the beggining, when the game was a , what i would call a " social game " where u were joining and had fun. now days its all about the epics, and who is the best. but i would say that, it might is caused by the roll, from a "social game" as i call it, and it is going into an Esport game.
The Game has not turned into a lobby game, but i would say that i was more fun in the beggining, when the game was a , what i would call a " social game " where u were joining and had fun. now days its all about the epics, and who is the best. but i would say that, it might is caused by the roll, from a "social game" as i call it, and it is going into an Esport game.
Of course it is not a lobby game (game world is huge), of course it is not only an e-sport game, of course it is not only a raiding game, of course it is not only a leveling game or ...
MMORPG's are all about having choices of play.
And these days WOW 2010 offers MORE different choices in playing the 1000's of achievements, the PvP, the Raids, the dungeons, the professions, the way you level... than ever before in its history.
Read my signature: you can advance your character with experience turned OFF or ON and then level ONLY through the PvP owning everyone around your levels, with gear you assembled from your dungeons/crafted professions/AH...
Just another extra option to have a fun playing time, just like the new LFG in dungeons, just like the dual specs (for example Pve-PvP), just like the one click button gear changer.
WOW NEVER offered more playing options than now.
Other fantasy mmorpg's are way and way behind these options in play mechanics (from flying to underwater worlds).
Not even one comes close. Of course not, they lack the funding....
It's like a fight between the 1200 lbs gorilla and a 30 lbs chimpansee...
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
Comments
Personally, I've found that WoW has become a shell of the game it once was. No longer does it have that epic feeling it once had. It's more like a Phantasy Star Online type of thing. You log in, you sit around in Dalaran in a queue, a random instance pops, you fight, you almost never speak (it wouldn't matter if you did, you'll never be able to talk to those people later because you can't add them to a friend list anyway, so no more grouping with them unless you get them randomly again), you fight a bit more, you leave the dungeon. Then you go back to sitting in Dalaran waiting for the next random instance to pop and continue on with that.
Now, some could say, "you don't have to do it that way!" Oh no, surely you do not, but because everyone else is, no one is LFG anymore in chat, they just hit that little button and they know, guaranteed there will be an instance for them shortly. It's kind of ruined the whole experience of teamwork, because its more like hiring a couple of people like in Guild Wars, going to do one of the bazillion instances, growing bored, logging.
Even in guilds, people don't do tons of stuff together anymore except for the occasional raid and hell, I think I heard tell of them putting in a raid finder, so that kind of puts a fork in that situation.
Overall, I find WoW to be utterly repetitive and incredibly boring and thats coming from someone who, up until all these changes were made, had been playing for about five years. I loved the game, I loved the feeling I had when I was logging in, like I was going on some adventure, but unfortunately now I'm just basically sitting in a queue for this or that.
Overall, I've decided to move onto other games. I no longer feel that WoW is that game that I must go back to, at all. Because well, its not really an MMO anymore.
The point i was making was that if you want to play the game a particular way there is nothing stopping you if you are willing to put in a little effort to get it. I did manage to find groups without any problems for the last five years and i manage to get groups together now and i do so as well as i always have done within my guild and with people i know socially within the game as i also enjoy a chat and a laugh as i play.
It is a time honoured gripe about all MMO's and especially WoW, to whinge about the social aspects and lack of communication, but i always find that it just comes down to some personal effort. I have seen people come into groups, say nothing and then moan that no-one else is saying anything???? It is amazing how far a simple "hello" or "hey guys" will go to break the ice and start a conversation going regardless of the group. That being said, there are just anti-social people all over the place in game and in real life and some poeple you just won't get along with, but that is just life!
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
Where is it massive? When you wait in a city? When you run a instanced dungeon? When you run a instanced raid? When you go to a instanced battleground or arena?
See, I'd agree with you.. If I hadn't already been down that road.
Typical instance run...
Me: Hey guys..
(silence)
Me: How's everyone doing?
(silence)
Me: WoW everyone is so quiet
Player: I'm just here to get this instance done.
Me: What's up guys?
(silence)
The only conversation that is ever had is when we have someone in the group who someone has an issue with thats stopping them from getting the instance completed. Noone cares about socializing anymore. Its all about getting rewarded for something.
www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules
Currently playing:
FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA.
When the dungeon finder came out I stated that it would only serve to hasten the decline of socialization in MMO's and as we see in this thread, I was pretty much spot on.
Sure, it has advantages in getting people to get through instanced dungeon content much easier, but the cost in terms of player interaction (yes, folks you must force players to interact in an MMO for them to learn to play nice) it is an utter disaster.
I hope to never see such a feature implemented in a newly released MMORPG and if I find out a game has such a mechanic then I will defintiely avoid it.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Your a bit hasty on your conclusions, a thread from one player or even the 50 or so other people that posted out of 4 million can hardly be used as proof that you were right, while a minority does not like it, there is a majority who does and agrees this was a good move for WoW, I am sorry for the OP if he isnt having fun, but I know loads of people who have come back and are now playing regularly because of this feature because they couldnt be bothered with the endless group finding.
I guess I am not seeing this on my server. Ours is alive and kicking. There is a new pride in being Horde and wtfbbqpwning the alliance across the board 0n our server. Guilds are building alliances among themselves to help run large scale raids on dungeons to get people geared so we can continue to make the alliance side of our server cry more. LOL! Seriously. Dungeon Finder is just a fast way for new 80's to get some decent gear so they can start doing the higher level raids. Sure the DF can be a pain and you'll get some bad players - but you would anyways if you were just pugging it the old way as well. I have been fortunate enough to pug with some great players from Spirestone and Silvermoon and I am on a totally different server. If anything this allows for us players from different servers to get together and share in adventures like never before. Even talked a non-guilded player to switch servers and come to mine to join a guild that is allied with the one I am in.
He'll make a great addition to theirs with his tanking skills.
As for WoW...it is more of an MMORPG right now than a lot of others and as long as the game works and Blizzard continues to support it with everything they got - I'll continue to play. Having a blast! /cheer
You're making it sound like all pugs are like this and they are far from it. I have ran hundreds of pugs and I'd say a good 80% had really nice players and good ones at that. Very friendly people, some very talkative. In fact in one I actually made a new friend and he is in the process of switching to the server I play on. So if the DF is such a terrible thing - can I haz more please?
WoW is still alright... I would just like to filter out all of the kids that play.
I think you would be very sad to find that its not really the kids that play that cause the issues. There are far more grownups / older people that cause far more issues / drama / problems then the kids do.
This is from someone that has been in 21+ aged guilds where said older people caused more drama then the younger people in other guilds I have been in.
Out of the 204 dungeons I have ran with my new Priest Alt. I have had maybe 10 (at the most) where there was someone or someone(s) that did nothing but caused issues.
10 out of 204 runs isn't a bad number.
Yes not all 204 of them was talk fests. But at the same time there was a fair number where people did talk and exchange talent builds / ideas and such.
I think some of the problem comes down to voice chat / vent. I myself much rather talk with someone on Vent then waste the time during / between a fight to talk with them in text. Text is slow, old, out dated format (when your fighting) to talk through. Combat in WoW is fast paced. With the exception of bosses most dungeon elite mobs can be blasted through within a min and when your pounding through a dungeon there generally isn't alot of time to talk between the battles. It's normally back to back pulls with the down time only being when your healer needs to mana up and that generally doesn't happen that often.
Maybe its just my server or something but outside the DF there is more then enough activity and talking. I join up with groups all the time to run through quests. So I don't see the problems of the OP atleast not on my server. If anything it made the game more massive since now I can interact with 10x the number of people I could before.
Aye, the kids might be annoying at times (they are kids - its what they do :P ) but a lot of the issues are caused by the adults who act worse than a 4 yearold throwing a temper tantrum in Toys R Us. One of the guilds I was in had plenty of teenages as well as adults. The adult players seemed to regress to a juvie state of mind (as if they were trying to compete mentally with the younger kids).
Hell, we even had instances of a few 30+ year old people throwing a hissy fit and crying (not whining, but actual tears and quivering voices and snotty sniveling) over vent because someone out rolled them on a piece of loot. And these were grown men ffs!
Add to that the IQ drop when a few of them started playing while getting drunk....
So yeah, its not just the kids that ruin WoW, its the general asshat mentality that a lot of players (young and old) have.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
I agree with the OP in the sense that I don't like the Dungeon Finder tool, it contributed to the reasons I left WoW for good. I was sick and tired of Drama, of all the MMO's out there the one where people seemed the most aggressive and angry is this one. Most of the times I spent random dungeoning was torture, either people demanded things of you that seemed unrealistic at all times or they were just downright rude.
As a tank all I would hear is "Pull faster! Hold Threat better!" and more of the same, keeping in mind that I've tanked in WoW for three years and I'm fairly good at it and enjoy pulling quickly without resting I think its really unrealistic how some of these people will treat their tanks.
That being said, when I would queue as a DPS I would find many tanks that had no idea how to AOE tank at all or how to chain pull. You would wind up in an instance that was not only dull but also extremely long. However, I myself never complained, while I watched many others did.
People have this "Who cares if I treat other people like utter crap" mentality, after all you'll never see them again, its a random dungeon. So you go around treating Random dungeons like 4 chan posts or trade chat or Barrens chat or the wall of a bathroom, you say as many offensive threatening or insulting things as you can muster.
Mission Accomplished!
It has become a little like guild wars. people gathering in cities waiting for the dungeon instance to start. the only need for them to go to certain places is to get there quests. its not the gameplay it used to be but it did the trick to me. i hope they'll bring back the old battleground honour ranking system so can i really get back into wow again
They'd be cross server, which everyone in BG's has the same mentality they do in random dungeons, treat everyone like they're mentally challenged 3 year olds and talk down to them.
How many times have you seen people screaming in /bg about things that really don't even mater?
Whats killing WoW is the community is so large people don't care if they offend anyone they don't already know.
^This is exactally why I quit for the *counts on fingers* 6th time, the problem isn't the LFG itself it's the complete LACK of teamwork required in dungeons these days, Wrath really threw the 'social' aspect out the window by removing CC and basically turning the whole game into a 'mass pull to aoe everything down'.
The only soild reason for me to keep comming back is that I lucked out and found within the mess that is Kazzak-EU an actal muture community behind the gearscore spamming and general 'eliteisum'.
Aye Wrath and the LFG tool basically turned the game into Diablo 2.5, if I leave again I'll be comming back for Cata, now that Blizzard have actally got some ravils comming to take their great number of '11 million subs' they can't just sit about anymore dribbing in the odd new raid every so oftern and raises the level cap just to say 'look look it's new' when for TBC and Wrath it's basically the same as vanilla with more numbers in your stat window, Cata will either reboot the game for many or utterly kill it forever.
Bring on the WARRRRGGHH!
actually the dungeons require team work the thing is people have done this group in dungeons so many times it doesn't matter what class they play they know what to do. Same thing happened in bc and pre bc.
I remember Heroic spamming in BC...
I remember no one ever doing Bot or Shattered Halls or Shadow Labs.
I remember how much CC those took, how much team work you had to have to not wipe several times on each one of them.
Then I remember HMGT, the dungeon most people still to this day cannot solo, a level 70 heroic that required some really difficult team work. (I remember groups not even being able to get past the Arena fight before Kael, in a HEROIC)
Wrath dumbed it down.
I think its really time for some sites to rethink about Wow as a MMORPG, because since Wotlk it isn't one anylonger. I'm not talking about the easy mode more about the instant gratification which is a killer for a real MMORPG.
Mark my words the combination of Chilton and Greg bastard Street will kill this game!
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
That's Kyleran: he judges a game without even playing it.
And you have to be very "out of this world" if you think you can see the average WOW player on these mmorpg.com pages.
The problem is very simple: the players that are IN the game love the tool.
The players that left a time ago think they have again a stick to beat the 1200 lbs gorilla.
Problem is ... people that actively play the game love the mechanics introduced.
The weekly Raiding quests or VOA's are not even used by this LFG tool and ... are played massively too.
So strange to see comments of people about grouping and in game community who don't even know what they talk about over here.
Get over it: WOW is being played in groups - YOU choose - from level 15 to level 80 and you don't like it is the huge success. Blizzard can make a god send tool to whatever game mechanic and the droolers would come out and bash it.
Playing in dungeons and finding players on the fly within a 15 minutes time bracket at ANY level ... and these guys complain ... about what ??? about the fact they dont want to play.
LOL. So don't play.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
5 years later and i'm still having fun in this MMO. But i won't bash those that don't find it fun anymore, people get burnt out on games, its amazing i have lasted this long myself lol.
With Cataclysm on the Horizon i think i'll be here for a few more years =D
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
Too bad I rarely get a group within 15 minutes most times. So try again. Maybe if your a healer or a tank that might be correct, but for a DPS class how fast you get a group depends on what level you are. Typically for me, its more like half an hr, and on my low level toons.. an hour or more. People still don't run those low level instances all that much, even with the DF. I've been trying to run Mara for a few weeks now, and haven't gotten a pop yet. I never said the tool wasnt a good idea. Its never the "tool" thats the problem, its how the players utilize it. Sure everyone who is using it in game loves it. Heck, I even love it, but at the same time it does have its drawbacks. Not because of how the tool is designed, but because of how people choose to use it. All the ghost town zones is proof of that. If you give people some way to do less work, thats exactly what they are going to do. People are just generally lazy.
If you gave people the option to click a button and automatically jump up 20 levels.. you can bet they'd all be clicking it in a heart beat. I can bet very few of them would still do it the old fashioned way. Thats the problem, its not the tools.. its the players.
www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules
Currently playing:
FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA.
Exactly.. It's why our small guild of friends moved on.. WoW has turned into a raiding e-sport.. I won't even get into the psychological aspects of why people need to compete in games like this.. Have fun beating up, insulting, demigrating and backstabbing everyone you run across to get that extra .0056% dps..
PS edit: The coming addition of "guild leveling" system proves that point.. Our guild is bigger and better then your guild = Esport..
The Game has not turned into a lobby game, but i would say that i was more fun in the beggining, when the game was a , what i would call a " social game " where u were joining and had fun. now days its all about the epics, and who is the best. but i would say that, it might is caused by the roll, from a "social game" as i call it, and it is going into an Esport game.
Of course it is not a lobby game (game world is huge), of course it is not only an e-sport game, of course it is not only a raiding game, of course it is not only a leveling game or ...
MMORPG's are all about having choices of play.
And these days WOW 2010 offers MORE different choices in playing the 1000's of achievements, the PvP, the Raids, the dungeons, the professions, the way you level... than ever before in its history.
Read my signature: you can advance your character with experience turned OFF or ON and then level ONLY through the PvP owning everyone around your levels, with gear you assembled from your dungeons/crafted professions/AH...
Just another extra option to have a fun playing time, just like the new LFG in dungeons, just like the dual specs (for example Pve-PvP), just like the one click button gear changer.
WOW NEVER offered more playing options than now.
Other fantasy mmorpg's are way and way behind these options in play mechanics (from flying to underwater worlds).
Not even one comes close. Of course not, they lack the funding....
It's like a fight between the 1200 lbs gorilla and a 30 lbs chimpansee...
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.