well I llke to play several games over a period of time for example i am playing sto, Lotro, Metro 2033 and Mass effect 1, this keeps me from getting bored with jut one game which is what happens with the exception of Mass effect 2, with that game I was able to play all the way through without getting bored
Why do they want to play MMORPGs when they don't want to invest any time? Wouldn't FPS games be better for them, since they don't like the whole leveling, raiding, questing, etc.
They want to remove any time consuming activities from MMORPGs. After a while, MMORPGs won't have any time investment. You'll just log in with your level 80 with max gear because leveling and raiding are too time consuming for some people.
WoW is a perfect example of this, where their game has gone in the past 6 years. From 40 man 3 hour raids to raids where you just zone in and theres a boss waiting for you.
An MMORPG is lacking big time when compared to a good CRPG. The only thing that can make up for the weaknesses of a MMORPG is the community.
I don't know if a discussion about casual vs. harcore is useful. If you design a game in a way that players are required to spend lots of time, then the game will ultimately be loosing players. If players take a break from the game (due to different RL issues) their in-game character will fall behind. It's a dynamic of its own. If you tie the in-game progression to the time spent in-game, then everyone who takes a break will fall behind. When coming back there will be a gap between the returning player and the current players. If the gap is too big or cannot be lowered in a reasonable amount of time then the returning player will quit altogether. The same applies to new players that join the game at a later stage.
I'm a rather casual gamer, but that doesn't makes me dislike challenge neither want to be top lv asap. When I log into a mmo, I look forward to enjoying my 3-4 hours of gameplay, I seek out for a challenge, and I may even get into a dungeon or raid that will consume all my free time for the day, I'm just looking for fun.
What I don't understand is when someone will stay 10 hours up and awake, redoing three dungeons, just to get those tier 11 items that they NEED for their set, how is that fun? I find that a clear social disorder, in witch you need powerful gear and big weapon to show that you are worth something, why do you go asap all the way to max lv? I could even stop leveling, just to travel around the mmo and watch the views, check the soaring mountains, admire the vast lakes, read the in-game books, to know the game story and understand why things are like they are!
I believe that "casual" gamers are not alway people that want everything fast and easy, but people that are not just hardcore; and "hardcore" players are people that invest their time actively into the game, trying to archive some or all goals possible within the game. Nevertheless, we need more definitions, we need to stop labeling people just by those terms and be a little more open towards other points of view, and especially, towards other styles of gameplay.
Note: I don't mean that all "hardcore" players are like the one described in the second paragraph, that's only an example of the extremes I've seen throughout my experience.
There's a difference between hardcore vs. casual play and easy vs. challenging play.
Grinding for 10 hours isn't necessarily challenging, but it is hardcore. Personally I have no interest in crap like that even if I can play for 10 hours. While many old school MMOs had challenges, they had a heck of a lot of insanely boring grinding for EVERYTHING. They also typically had a lot of time wasted traveling about, ime. Personally I don't want to waste a lot of time before I get to the fun stuff, I want to get to the fun stuff right away. I don't really think a lot of people ENJOY doing this (and it certainly isn't good game design).*
Yeah, travel is such a bad thing in MMORPGs. Instead, you should just pick what area you want to be in on start up. Right? Because then it will really feel like a real World, when you can pick where you want to be without having to travel through a continuous world.
They need to ditch the portal shit, I never liked that. What happened to traveling a world via boat, or blimp, or whatever? Now its all portals all over the place. I can get from any part of the world to any other part of the world in less than 5 minutes. What kind of world is that?
Travel should be brought back into MMORPGs. It should take long to travel across a huge world. They should add mounts, whatever.. for people who actually work hard and want to reduce travel time. But giving everyone portals is just wrong. They only make the game cheap and less immersive.
Yeh it is a bad thing. First time is fun. The Nth time it is BORING to do the same boat ride.
99% of the players agree and that is why we have portals in MMORPGs. Don't like it, find another hobby. No one is ditching the portal just because of YOU.
There's a difference between hardcore vs. casual play and easy vs. challenging play.
Grinding for 10 hours isn't necessarily challenging, but it is hardcore. Personally I have no interest in crap like that even if I can play for 10 hours. While many old school MMOs had challenges, they had a heck of a lot of insanely boring grinding for EVERYTHING. They also typically had a lot of time wasted traveling about, ime. Personally I don't want to waste a lot of time before I get to the fun stuff, I want to get to the fun stuff right away. I don't really think a lot of people ENJOY doing this (and it certainly isn't good game design).*
Yeah, travel is such a bad thing in MMORPGs. Instead, you should just pick what area you want to be in on start up. Right? Because then it will really feel like a real World, when you can pick where you want to be without having to travel through a continuous world.
They need to ditch the portal shit, I never liked that. What happened to traveling a world via boat, or blimp, or whatever? Now its all portals all over the place. I can get from any part of the world to any other part of the world in less than 5 minutes. What kind of world is that?
Travel should be brought back into MMORPGs. It should take long to travel across a huge world. They should add mounts, whatever.. for people who actually work hard and want to reduce travel time. But giving everyone portals is just wrong. They only make the game cheap and less immersive.
Yeh it is a bad thing. First time is fun. The Nth time it is BORING to do the same boat ride.
99% of the players agree and that is why we have portals in MMORPGs. Don't like it, find another hobby. No one is ditching the portal just because of YOU.
99% of WoW players maybe, because they probably don't know how to get from one zone to another.
It seems your anger is directed at casual players no? Shouldn't it rather be directed at companies that look at market demographics and keep cutting out content for the hardcore players? It's not the casual gamer's fault that they are where the money is.
Gaming companies should develop a way to cater to both sides of the equation. Make more difficult content that takes more investment to accomplish. Which keeping the simple content satisfying for the casual players. That is afterall the beginning theory behind creating different difficulty levels in instances no? The variation just isn't far enough apart to really notice a huge difference.
Or as he said, running back and forth between zones gets monotonous and redundant.
Seriously though, complaining about something like portals is inane. It's like Oblivion fast travel rants all over again.
Don't like them? Don't use them! Problem solved. Casuals get the ability to skip over the parts that give neither fun nor reward, and hardcore players get to meander down the pike at their leisure.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
You also add in the fact that hardcore players are the ones that min max games and try to break the game. You could argue that this is something that the gaming company should have seen in the item bonuses/stats. Casual players on the other hand often play a game how they like, and are less concerned about getting the best build possible. At which point you have to wonder who is actually playing the game. Is it the casual player that is happy with their experience just going as they will. Or is it the hardcore player that breaks the game down to a graphical spreadsheet?
Maybe the casual gamer should realise that things may take a little longer than expected. Take Aion for instance, the games only been out 6 months now. Six month! thats bugger all in mmo terms. There are loads of lvl 50 players now. But after 2 months of playing ppl were like wtf, why am I not lvl 50!!!!
So then they slag the game of as a grind. What its really about is ppl seing other people with the phat loot first and being jealous, there has always be someone with the loot first. And always wil be.
Or as he said, running back and forth between zones gets monotonous and redundant.
Seriously though, complaining about something like portals is inane. It's like Oblivion fast travel rants all over again.
Don't like them? Don't use them! Problem solved. Casuals get the ability to skip over the parts that give neither fun nor reward, and hardcore players get to meander down the pike at their leisure.
That's what I don't get about these types of arguments. Why they cannot simply refuse to use those types of things rather than feel they should not exist whatsover for anyone because they don't personally care for them just doesn't make any sense.
If I don't care for something available in a game I simply do not use it or complete the task.
It's just like the whole icons being shown on the map. Most games nowadays provide you the option to turn those off if you would rather simply explore on your own and test things out without any guidance or help. Still, for some that isn't good enough. Even if they have the option to turn it off that isn't good enough because even if they aren't using it there are others in game that are using the feature.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
But giving everyone portals is just wrong. They only make the game cheap and less immersive.
Yeh it is a bad thing. First time is fun. The Nth time it is BORING to do the same boat ride.
99% of the players agree and that is why we have portals in MMORPGs. Don't like it, find another hobby. No one is ditching the portal just because of YOU.
99% of WoW players maybe, because they probably don't know how to get from one zone to another.
I have two insights to offer:
The first is that you think about WoW way too much; to the point where if WoW was a woman, I'd be advising her to call the police, fit deadlocks to her doors/windows, get a big vicious guard dog and also, just for safety, buy a shotgun.
The second is that you're misrepresenting what it means for an MMO to be immersive.
It's not about how believable the game world is, it's about how well it sucks the player in and keeps them playing past the point where they would have ordinarily logged off. We've all done it. Pop onto an MMO for a quick 10 minutes, get absorbed in the fun, and suddenly realise that 3 hours have gone by. That's immersion.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
So you're complaining that other people complain that something isn't the way they want it? While complaining that something isn't the way you like it. I see a pot and a kettle.
Why do they want to play MMORPGs when they don't want to invest any time? Wouldn't FPS games be better for them, since they don't like the whole leveling, raiding, questing, etc.
They want to remove any time consuming activities from MMORPGs. After a while, MMORPGs won't have any time investment. You'll just log in with your level 80 with max gear because leveling and raiding are too time consuming for some people.
WoW is a perfect example of this, where their game has gone in the past 6 years. From 40 man 3 hour raids to raids where you just zone in and theres a boss waiting for you.
I'm not a casual, but I disagree with time consuming activities in MMORPGs that require little thought or skill. I'm not sure why you're in favor of these. Is your life honestly so empty and boring that you want to just piss away time doing things of little value to yourself? The ideal game would have activities that remain challenging through a dynamic game state, they could possibly be time consuming.
Maybe the casual gamer should realise that things may take a little longer than expected. Take Aion for instance, the games only been out 6 months now. Six month! thats bugger all in mmo terms. There are loads of lvl 50 players now. But after 2 months of playing ppl were like wtf, why am I not lvl 50!!!!
So then they slag the game of as a grind. What its really about is ppl seing other people with the phat loot first and being jealous, there has always be someone with the loot first. And always wil be.
Or the 'casuals' call it a grind because you do the same things over and over and over and over and over and over and over ad infinitum until you reach cap, quest and craft out all the best gear ya can, and pvp for some goodies like a properly whipped player.
It could actually be that the gamer would rather do something interesting... who woulda thunk it?
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Maybe the casual gamer should realise that things may take a little longer than expected. Take Aion for instance, the games only been out 6 months now. Six month! thats bugger all in mmo terms. There are loads of lvl 50 players now. But after 2 months of playing ppl were like wtf, why am I not lvl 50!!!!
So then they slag the game of as a grind. What its really about is ppl seing other people with the phat loot first and being jealous, there has always be someone with the loot first. And always wil be.
Or the 'casuals' call it a grind because you do the same things over and over and over and over and over and over and over ad infinitum until you reach cap, quest and craft out all the best gear ya can, and pvp for some goodies like a properly whipped player.
It could actually be that the gamer would rather do something interesting... who woulda thunk it?
We have a winner. I get the feeling that most "hardcore" grind oriented players suffer from mild mental retardation, or have really terrible lives.
That is the real question... I mean, does it mean a player who plays a ton? A player who plays a really hard game? Or a player who is really good at a game? Maybe it's a dedicated player? Explain to me, what is hardcore?
"The question that sometimes drives me hazy: Am I, or the others crazy?" - Albert Einstein
Or as he said, running back and forth between zones gets monotonous and redundant.
Seriously though, complaining about something like portals is inane. It's like Oblivion fast travel rants all over again.
Don't like them? Don't use them! Problem solved. Casuals get the ability to skip over the parts that give neither fun nor reward, and hardcore players get to meander down the pike at their leisure.
That's what I don't get about these types of arguments. Why they cannot simply refuse to use those types of things rather than feel they should not exist whatsover for anyone because they don't personally care for them just doesn't make any sense.
If I don't care for something available in a game I simply do not use it or complete the task.
It's just like the whole icons being shown on the map. Most games nowadays provide you the option to turn those off if you would rather simply explore on your own and test things out without any guidance or help. Still, for some that isn't good enough. Even if they have the option to turn it off that isn't good enough because even if they aren't using it there are others in game that are using the feature.
Wow you don't get it?
If they are in the game, and you don't use it, you're at a disadvantage. What a hard concept to understand
So those newbies who can't learn where things are will progress faster than those who don't use the features and remember where things are. Real level playng field.
What I don't get, is why you want dumbed down games? Is it too hard to learn where landmarks are and where zonelines are? Why don't you just whine a lot then get an auto-play feature in WoW, then you can say "Don't use the auto-play feature if you don't want it".
You guys are ridiculous, wanting features that dumb the game down and make playing it trivial. Typical casuals
That is the real question... I mean, does it mean a player who plays a ton? A player who plays a really hard game? Or a player who is really good at a game? Maybe it's a dedicated player? Explain to me, what is hardcore?
It's players who play for an excessive amount of time basically.
But giving everyone portals is just wrong. They only make the game cheap and less immersive.
Yeh it is a bad thing. First time is fun. The Nth time it is BORING to do the same boat ride.
99% of the players agree and that is why we have portals in MMORPGs. Don't like it, find another hobby. No one is ditching the portal just because of YOU.
99% of WoW players maybe, because they probably don't know how to get from one zone to another.
I have two insights to offer:
The first is that you think about WoW way too much; to the point where if WoW was a woman, I'd be advising her to call the police, fit deadlocks to her doors/windows, get a big vicious guard dog and also, just for safety, buy a shotgun.
The second is that you're misrepresenting what it means for an MMO to be immersive.
It's not about how believable the game world is, it's about how well it sucks the player in and keeps them playing past the point where they would have ordinarily logged off. We've all done it. Pop onto an MMO for a quick 10 minutes, get absorbed in the fun, and suddenly realise that 3 hours have gone by. That's immersion.
yes, portals and instances are immersive. Maybe WoW will be as immersive as Diablo 2 or Guildwars pretty soon with the ridiculous amount of instancing they have in that "MMORPG", if you can call it that anymore.
More like a cheap lobby with barren zones and a collection of instances.
Why do they want to play MMORPGs when they don't want to invest any time? Wouldn't FPS games be better for them, since they don't like the whole leveling, raiding, questing, etc.
They want to remove any time consuming activities from MMORPGs. After a while, MMORPGs won't have any time investment. You'll just log in with your level 80 with max gear because leveling and raiding are too time consuming for some people.
WoW is a perfect example of this, where their game has gone in the past 6 years. From 40 man 3 hour raids to raids where you just zone in and theres a boss waiting for you.
I'm not a casual, but I disagree with time consuming activities in MMORPGs that require little thought or skill. I'm not sure why you're in favor of these. Is your life honestly so empty and boring that you want to just piss away time doing things of little value to yourself? The ideal game would have activities that remain challenging through a dynamic game state, they could possibly be time consuming.
Since we don't know how to read obviously, what did you say? Did you just say you wanted dumbed down easy-mode content because Molten Core was just too hard?
Why do hardcores like having a second job they have to pay for? Personal taste counts for everything. Maybe the casual gamer likes the MMO experience but doesn't want it to become a 9-5 job when there are far more useful and constructive things they could do with their life. I'm not sure why that seems to elicit scorn from the hardcores, personally I'd say it should be the other way around.
Personal opinions aside, I don't understand why the casual and "hardcore" players can't co-exist. WoW's emblem system still requires an enormous amount of time investment to get the best gear, and still rewards "hardcore" players by allowing them to get that gear in a shorter space of time (more time played = more emblems no?). It just means that the player doesn't HAVE to spend 8 hours a day getting it, but can spend the equivilent number of hours spread over a more reasonable time scale. At the end of the day, they've still put in the same amount of time and effort.
Because in any community...virtual or real..people participate in neither a "hardcore" manner nor a "casual" manner...but rather different levels of both at varying times. Nothing is black or white. Get used to it.
Comments
well I llke to play several games over a period of time for example i am playing sto, Lotro, Metro 2033 and Mass effect 1, this keeps me from getting bored with jut one game which is what happens with the exception of Mass effect 2, with that game I was able to play all the way through without getting bored
An MMORPG is lacking big time when compared to a good CRPG. The only thing that can make up for the weaknesses of a MMORPG is the community.
I don't know if a discussion about casual vs. harcore is useful. If you design a game in a way that players are required to spend lots of time, then the game will ultimately be loosing players. If players take a break from the game (due to different RL issues) their in-game character will fall behind. It's a dynamic of its own. If you tie the in-game progression to the time spent in-game, then everyone who takes a break will fall behind. When coming back there will be a gap between the returning player and the current players. If the gap is too big or cannot be lowered in a reasonable amount of time then the returning player will quit altogether. The same applies to new players that join the game at a later stage.
I'm a rather casual gamer, but that doesn't makes me dislike challenge neither want to be top lv asap. When I log into a mmo, I look forward to enjoying my 3-4 hours of gameplay, I seek out for a challenge, and I may even get into a dungeon or raid that will consume all my free time for the day, I'm just looking for fun.
What I don't understand is when someone will stay 10 hours up and awake, redoing three dungeons, just to get those tier 11 items that they NEED for their set, how is that fun? I find that a clear social disorder, in witch you need powerful gear and big weapon to show that you are worth something, why do you go asap all the way to max lv? I could even stop leveling, just to travel around the mmo and watch the views, check the soaring mountains, admire the vast lakes, read the in-game books, to know the game story and understand why things are like they are!
I believe that "casual" gamers are not alway people that want everything fast and easy, but people that are not just hardcore; and "hardcore" players are people that invest their time actively into the game, trying to archive some or all goals possible within the game. Nevertheless, we need more definitions, we need to stop labeling people just by those terms and be a little more open towards other points of view, and especially, towards other styles of gameplay.
Note: I don't mean that all "hardcore" players are like the one described in the second paragraph, that's only an example of the extremes I've seen throughout my experience.
Yeh it is a bad thing. First time is fun. The Nth time it is BORING to do the same boat ride.
99% of the players agree and that is why we have portals in MMORPGs. Don't like it, find another hobby. No one is ditching the portal just because of YOU.
99% of WoW players maybe, because they probably don't know how to get from one zone to another.
It seems your anger is directed at casual players no? Shouldn't it rather be directed at companies that look at market demographics and keep cutting out content for the hardcore players? It's not the casual gamer's fault that they are where the money is.
Gaming companies should develop a way to cater to both sides of the equation. Make more difficult content that takes more investment to accomplish. Which keeping the simple content satisfying for the casual players. That is afterall the beginning theory behind creating different difficulty levels in instances no? The variation just isn't far enough apart to really notice a huge difference.
Or as he said, running back and forth between zones gets monotonous and redundant.
Seriously though, complaining about something like portals is inane. It's like Oblivion fast travel rants all over again.
Don't like them? Don't use them! Problem solved. Casuals get the ability to skip over the parts that give neither fun nor reward, and hardcore players get to meander down the pike at their leisure.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
The definitive answer to why casuals play MMORPG's.
Because they want to.
The definitive answer to why Developers make games accessible for casuals.
Because "hardcore" is synonymous with Unemployed. Go get a job and then complain about casuals.
Laudanum - Romance. Revenge. Revolution.
Crappy, petty people breed and raise crappy, petty kids.
You also add in the fact that hardcore players are the ones that min max games and try to break the game. You could argue that this is something that the gaming company should have seen in the item bonuses/stats. Casual players on the other hand often play a game how they like, and are less concerned about getting the best build possible. At which point you have to wonder who is actually playing the game. Is it the casual player that is happy with their experience just going as they will. Or is it the hardcore player that breaks the game down to a graphical spreadsheet?
Maybe the casual gamer should realise that things may take a little longer than expected. Take Aion for instance, the games only been out 6 months now. Six month! thats bugger all in mmo terms. There are loads of lvl 50 players now. But after 2 months of playing ppl were like wtf, why am I not lvl 50!!!!
So then they slag the game of as a grind. What its really about is ppl seing other people with the phat loot first and being jealous, there has always be someone with the loot first. And always wil be.
Can't believe it took 8 pages to get to this answer.
Nothing more needs to be said.
That's what I don't get about these types of arguments. Why they cannot simply refuse to use those types of things rather than feel they should not exist whatsover for anyone because they don't personally care for them just doesn't make any sense.
If I don't care for something available in a game I simply do not use it or complete the task.
It's just like the whole icons being shown on the map. Most games nowadays provide you the option to turn those off if you would rather simply explore on your own and test things out without any guidance or help. Still, for some that isn't good enough. Even if they have the option to turn it off that isn't good enough because even if they aren't using it there are others in game that are using the feature.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I have two insights to offer:
The first is that you think about WoW way too much; to the point where if WoW was a woman, I'd be advising her to call the police, fit deadlocks to her doors/windows, get a big vicious guard dog and also, just for safety, buy a shotgun.
The second is that you're misrepresenting what it means for an MMO to be immersive.
It's not about how believable the game world is, it's about how well it sucks the player in and keeps them playing past the point where they would have ordinarily logged off. We've all done it. Pop onto an MMO for a quick 10 minutes, get absorbed in the fun, and suddenly realise that 3 hours have gone by. That's immersion.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
So you're complaining that other people complain that something isn't the way they want it? While complaining that something isn't the way you like it. I see a pot and a kettle.
I'm not a casual, but I disagree with time consuming activities in MMORPGs that require little thought or skill. I'm not sure why you're in favor of these. Is your life honestly so empty and boring that you want to just piss away time doing things of little value to yourself? The ideal game would have activities that remain challenging through a dynamic game state, they could possibly be time consuming.
Or the 'casuals' call it a grind because you do the same things over and over and over and over and over and over and over ad infinitum until you reach cap, quest and craft out all the best gear ya can, and pvp for some goodies like a properly whipped player.
It could actually be that the gamer would rather do something interesting... who woulda thunk it?
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
We have a winner. I get the feeling that most "hardcore" grind oriented players suffer from mild mental retardation, or have really terrible lives.
What is hardcore?
That is the real question... I mean, does it mean a player who plays a ton? A player who plays a really hard game? Or a player who is really good at a game? Maybe it's a dedicated player? Explain to me, what is hardcore?
"The question that sometimes drives me hazy: Am I, or the others crazy?" - Albert Einstein
And casual is synonymous with newb who needs easy mode content and whines when it isn't easy-mode
Wow you don't get it?
If they are in the game, and you don't use it, you're at a disadvantage. What a hard concept to understand
So those newbies who can't learn where things are will progress faster than those who don't use the features and remember where things are. Real level playng field.
What I don't get, is why you want dumbed down games? Is it too hard to learn where landmarks are and where zonelines are? Why don't you just whine a lot then get an auto-play feature in WoW, then you can say "Don't use the auto-play feature if you don't want it".
You guys are ridiculous, wanting features that dumb the game down and make playing it trivial. Typical casuals
It's players who play for an excessive amount of time basically.
yes, portals and instances are immersive. Maybe WoW will be as immersive as Diablo 2 or Guildwars pretty soon with the ridiculous amount of instancing they have in that "MMORPG", if you can call it that anymore.
More like a cheap lobby with barren zones and a collection of instances.
Since we don't know how to read obviously, what did you say? Did you just say you wanted dumbed down easy-mode content because Molten Core was just too hard?
Why do hardcores like having a second job they have to pay for? Personal taste counts for everything. Maybe the casual gamer likes the MMO experience but doesn't want it to become a 9-5 job when there are far more useful and constructive things they could do with their life. I'm not sure why that seems to elicit scorn from the hardcores, personally I'd say it should be the other way around.
Personal opinions aside, I don't understand why the casual and "hardcore" players can't co-exist. WoW's emblem system still requires an enormous amount of time investment to get the best gear, and still rewards "hardcore" players by allowing them to get that gear in a shorter space of time (more time played = more emblems no?). It just means that the player doesn't HAVE to spend 8 hours a day getting it, but can spend the equivilent number of hours spread over a more reasonable time scale. At the end of the day, they've still put in the same amount of time and effort.
Because in any community...virtual or real..people participate in neither a "hardcore" manner nor a "casual" manner...but rather different levels of both at varying times. Nothing is black or white. Get used to it.