Wow...well that totally sold me ont he game.I was gonna skip it till I read you can jump nwo I'll buy it coz the dozens of other fatures meant nothing without jump! 8P
You guys are trying to make us look like we're superficial for asking about the jump. What we're saying is that this kind of discussion shouldn't even exists in a modern mmorpg. I was surprised when I saw the name of the topic. How can jump create a hype. It's a feature that should be considered normal.
You guys are trying to make us look like we're superficial for asking about the jump. What we're saying is that this kind of discussion shouldn't even exists in a modern mmorpg. I was surprised when I saw the name of the topic. How can jump create a hype. It's a feature that should be considered normal.
But why should it be considered normal? Just because all the games that you have played have had a jump feature (primarily western games I'm going to assume) does not make it 'normal'. If a game has no reason for you to jump, are you really going to miss being able to do it?
You guys are trying to make us look like we're superficial for asking about the jump. What we're saying is that this kind of discussion shouldn't even exists in a modern mmorpg. I was surprised when I saw the name of the topic. How can jump create a hype. It's a feature that should be considered normal.
But why should it be considered normal? Just because all the games that you have played have had a jump feature (primarily western games I'm going to assume) does not make it 'normal'. If a game has no reason for you to jump, are you really going to miss being able to do it?
The better question would be why not have it. Usually the question is why a feature is missing. Ok, maybe I'm wrong and this game will use a quite different type of combat from what I'm used to. For example jumping in Atlantica Online would been quite useless. If that's so, my bad.
Btw I'm playing now an eastern mmorpg and I can't imagine it without jumping. Just watch the video so u can understand why I need to jump in the game I'm on now.
You guys are trying to make us look like we're superficial for asking about the jump. What we're saying is that this kind of discussion shouldn't even exists in a modern mmorpg. I was surprised when I saw the name of the topic. How can jump create a hype. It's a feature that should be considered normal.
But why should it be considered normal? Just because all the games that you have played have had a jump feature (primarily western games I'm going to assume) does not make it 'normal'. If a game has no reason for you to jump, are you really going to miss being able to do it?
The better question would be why not have it. Usually the question is why a feature is missing. Ok, maybe I'm wrong and this game will use a quite different type of combat from what I'm used to. For example jumping in Atlantica Online would been quite useless. If that's so, my bad.
Btw I'm playing now an eastern mmorpg and I can't imagine it without jumping. Just watch the video so u can understand why I need to jump in the game I'm on now.
Aion is something of an exception in the eastern market since it has flight and therefore jumping makes sense as a useful addition, but I understand your point, and agree that I don't really know why SE won't let players jump. I'm just saying that I don't see the big deal really, but I recognise that there are some players out there who see it as an important aspect of player freedom.
I suppose you can think of the issue with regards to sprinting. Jumping is a real life freedom that we like to have access to in games to make it feel more immersive, but why then does no one mind that our characters are permanently stuck at a slow jog? I remember EQ2 had a universal sprint ability yet all other MMOs I've played relegate sprinting (or other run speed increases) to either class specific skills or enchanted equipment bonuses. Surely everyone would be able to realistically sprint? So why can't we sprint in all MMOs? Surely that should be accepted as a basic feature as well...? But it isn't. The only reason that we as western gamers are so used to jumping is because the majority of western games offer it. Not many games offer sprinting so we aren't used to it and have no issue with it being an absent feature.
Just trying to give it some perspective... I do agree with your views.
I've been playing MMO's for a while and i also think jumping is a core feature for any character based MMO (not strategy like atlantic online).
Not having three degrees of freedom makes it essentially a 2d game and kills a lot of the immersion. It also cuts out a lot of the strategy and exploration. Having three degres of freedom has been a core feature in nearly every new major P2P MMO: WoW, AoC, Aion, LotRO, Fallen Earth, Warhammer Online and even Dark Fall have three degrees of freedom.
If Final Fantasy XIV does not have jumping, then it will drive off a lot of customers that were introduced to the genre by newer MMO's like WoW. Even older users that started with Anarchy Online, like myself, have become accustomed to having that feature in the game; it's hard for me to play any game without jumping.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
The better question would be why not have it. Usually the question is why a feature is missing. Ok, maybe I'm wrong and this game will use a quite different type of combat from what I'm used to. For example jumping in Atlantica Online would been quite useless. If that's so, my bad.
This topic has been covered over and over again but here we go again.
To answer your question:
1) Exploits. People using jump to go to areas they are not supposed to go. Or using it to exploit mobs somehow.
2) Waste of resources. Why should Devs dedicate time to design terrain/mobs so they can't be exploited by jumpers if the jump is not necessary to the game???
3) Bunny hopping. A lot of people, myself included, are annoyed by players jumping all over the screen. It's annoying.
I'm fine with other games that allow jumping if the Devs want it in their game but it is silly to think that jumping should be required in a game for no other reason than it is an MMO. Especially if it serves no purpose.
Man, just add in action points SE. Like you did in FFXIII. No control over it, but at least they'll be that feeling of going up and down with your character and won't be abused by players. The underlying engine is the same, so it shouldn't be too diffulcult or time consuming add in. The only thing that would take time would be the jump animations, but there's more then enough time before launch anyways.
Even if there's no jumping at all, it won't stop me from playing. People refusing to play a game just because it lacks one irrelevant feature are idiots I probably don't want to play with in the first place. Good riddance to be honest.
If Final Fantasy XIV does not have jumping, then it will drive off a lot of customers that were introduced to the genre by newer MMO's like WoW.
And the problem is.... ?
If someone doesn't want to play a game purely because they can't jump, the gaming community is better off without them.
But probably not as much as they are better off without the game. Seriously, it is jumping. Jumping has been around in gaming since - uh - when?
The funny part is most people probably figured it to be an April Fool's Joke based on saying jumping would be included (like duh) - and then in finding out that there really is no jumping...well, that is just sad.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
This topic has been covered over and over again but here we go again.
To answer your question:
1) Exploits. People using jump to go to areas they are not supposed to go. Or using it to exploit mobs somehow.
Solved by designing your terrain properly.
2) Waste of resources. Why should Devs dedicate time to design terrain/mobs so they can't be exploited by jumpers if the jump is not necessary to the game???
Define "necessary". Is walking (as opposed to running everywhere) necessary? Are sitting and lying down and dancing necessary? They are normal and commonplace actions, and not being able to do them hurts immersion. An MMO is supposed to feel like a world.
3) Bunny hopping. A lot of people, myself included, are annoyed by players jumping all over the screen. It's annoying.
Put a cooldown on jumping. Now - it's not spammable.
I'm fine with other games that allow jumping if the Devs want it in their game but it is silly to think that jumping should be required in a game for no other reason than it is an MMO. Especially if it serves no purpose.
The purpose is to make gameplay feel more real.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
WTF. I can't believe that peoples are exited because you can jump in the game. Cmon its 2010. It would be stupid not to jump in a mmorpg. I remember L2 where u couldnt jump and all the world was flat and boring. Movement was dull. Seriously guys this is a feature that should be considered normal today not something to be hyped for.
Yes, just like swimming and flying. These things open up more options in gameplay. I find it remarkable that some people care more about water being shiney, than being able to swim in it.
Gameplay should trump high-end graphic effects.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Show me a guy who can wear full plate, carry a weapon and shield and jump 2 feet into the air. Even chainmail. They can maybe do a little hop/skip, but actual jumping? Good luck with that.
Still are plenty of games that don't have free jump and are still great plays. Jumping (and swimming for that mater) isn't a necessary feature for gameplay. Yes, having it would be nice to add to the immersion, but lacking it shouldn't turn off players from it. That's just showing they were never really interested in the first place.
If Final Fantasy XIV does not have jumping, then it will drive off a lot of customers that were introduced to the genre by newer MMO's like WoW.
And the problem is.... ?
If someone doesn't want to play a game purely because they can't jump, the gaming community is better off without them.
But probably not as much as they are better off without the game. Seriously, it is jumping. Jumping has been around in gaming since - uh - when?
The funny part is most people probably figured it to be an April Fool's Joke based on saying jumping would be included (like duh) - and then in finding out that there really is no jumping...well, that is just sad.
Not taking sides here, I honestly don't mind if it's in or not, but there are plenty of games that don't have a jump ability. Both Mass Effect 1/2 and Dragon Age, two very popular RPGs released in the last year, do not have an ability to jump and yet no one complains about it there? Why? In terms of immersion and player freedom both games should be quite similar to MMOs despite being console RPGs and yet the lack of the jump feature here doesn't provoke an outcry at all... Not all RPGs (online or otherwise) have a jump ability, and it doesn't hurt immersion at all.
The only reason people are getting their feathers ruffled over this is because they're used to it in MMOs. In particular they are used to it in western MMOs; FFXIV is a Japanese game and thus their development priorities will differ from ours. I recall an article on here a while back about how western gamers expect eastern developed games to cater to them alone despite being made to appeal to their eastern audiences first and this is a prime example of it. (And to pre-empt the eastern game = korean grinder argument, there is a significant difference between the japanese and other asian gaming communities).
The single statement throws you out of the target audience for FFXIV.
The final fantasy series has never been about making a " real-life " simulator. It has always been about placing a character in a believeable world within a fantasy setting. If being able not to jump doesn't allow you to be immersed then I hope you would seriously consider not purchasing FFXIV in the future.
This topic has been covered over and over again but here we go again.
To answer your question:
1) Exploits. People using jump to go to areas they are not supposed to go. Or using it to exploit mobs somehow.
Solved by designing your terrain properly.
See Point #2 below - waste of resources. I don't care to have the game delayed further for an unnecessary jump ability.
2) Waste of resources. Why should Devs dedicate time to design terrain/mobs so they can't be exploited by jumpers if the jump is not necessary to the game???
Define "necessary". Is walking (as opposed to running everywhere) necessary? Are sitting and lying down and dancing necessary? They are normal and commonplace actions, and not being able to do them hurts immersion. An MMO is supposed to feel like a world.
Ah, but you ignore the main point of my post, the other things you mentioned do not have the risk of being exploits or require the terrain to be designed differently.
3) Bunny hopping. A lot of people, myself included, are annoyed by players jumping all over the screen. It's annoying.
Put a cooldown on jumping. Now - it's not spammable.
That would be better than bunny hopping, but again, what's the point of a cooldown jump if it wastes development time or, more importantly, risks exploits? See #1 and #2.
I'm fine with other games that allow jumping if the Devs want it in their game but it is silly to think that jumping should be required in a game for no other reason than it is an MMO. Especially if it serves no purpose.
The purpose is to make gameplay feel more real.
Wrong! There is nothing realistic about shooting fireballs, fighting monsters or using a different weapon to get new abilities. The "realism" argument is ridiculous.
The purpose is to make the game enjoyable. I realize there are some people who find jumping enjoyable but there are also people who could care less and do not think the costs outweigh the rewards.
Because jumping around is something everyone does in real life too right?
I can jump when I need to, and I can swim, too.
Yet how often do you do either? If you come across a river do you swim across it? No you walk along til you find a bridge. If you find a fence do you jump over it? No you walk a few metres to the gate. I'm willing to bet that most people do not have any need to jump or swim at all most days.
Show me a guy who can wear full plate, carry a weapon and shield and jump 2 feet into the air. Even chainmail. They can maybe do a little hop/skip, but actual jumping? Good luck with that.
And the ones in little or NO armour?
If you are saying a game should have have encumbrance effects - I completely agree. That is another area in which MMO have a LONG way to go.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
This topic has been covered over and over again but here we go again.
To answer your question:
1) Exploits. People using jump to go to areas they are not supposed to go. Or using it to exploit mobs somehow.
IF the world and npc reaction are created with the jumping feature in mind there's no way you can exploit. I can't go where developers didn't want for me to go in Aion or wow. SE can't just add jump now though. It should had been donne before creating the world and scripting the npcs.
2) Waste of resources. Why should Devs dedicate time to design terrain/mobs so they can't be exploited by jumpers if the jump is not necessary to the game???
There are some pluses to the jump ability. Rugged terrain with hills and rocks which add greatly to the realism. The terrain becomes a strategy factor in fight. Yes, I agree that it takes time for the developers but I think is worth it.
3) Bunny hopping. A lot of people, myself included, are annoyed by players jumping all over the screen. It's annoying.
I don't see this Bunny hopping that much in game. And even if I see it sometimes I join. Helps killing time while you wait for a mob to spawn. Not a big deal and most of all not a reason to not implement it. Sometimes you read all kind of crap in the chat. Should the devs not implement that either?
I'm fine with other games that allow jumping if the Devs want it in their game but it is silly to think that jumping should be required in a game for no other reason than it is an MMO. Especially if it serves no purpose.
Of course jump isn't necessary for all mmo. As I said it's poinless for Atlantica. Now that I think about jump wouldn't work really well in the slow fight FFXI has. If SE is going to replicate the fight style of FFXI to FFXIV jump would not be missed. I just hoped they wouldn't.
Now that I think about jump wouldn't work really well in the slow fight FFXI has. If SE is going to replicate the fight style of FFXI to FFXIV jump would not be missed.
Quoted For Truth. Thank you for leaving the Matrix.
For the rest of your responses, see my reply to MMO Doubter above.
Show me a guy who can wear full plate, carry a weapon and shield and jump 2 feet into the air. Even chainmail. They can maybe do a little hop/skip, but actual jumping? Good luck with that.
And the ones in little or NO armour?
If you are saying a game should have have encumbrance effects - I completely agree. That is another area in which MMO have a LONG way to go.
Sort of.
Like I said, the best middle ground for this argument is to add in action points. Like in FFXIII. And an even more prime example, LoZ: Ocarina of Time.
SE obviously didn't even think about jumping when they designed their world, so exploits are there galore. If they did add in jumping, they would seriously have some work to do redesigning the landscape. This can easily be solved if they had controlled jumping in the game.
And just because we can jump in real life whenever we want, it's not like we actually do it that much. I don't suddenly break into a leap when I'm walking/jogging with friends. But I will if something comes across me, like a fence. Again, controlled points for jumping would just make more sense.
Comments
Wow...well that totally sold me ont he game.I was gonna skip it till I read you can jump nwo I'll buy it coz the dozens of other fatures meant nothing without jump! 8P
You guys are trying to make us look like we're superficial for asking about the jump. What we're saying is that this kind of discussion shouldn't even exists in a modern mmorpg. I was surprised when I saw the name of the topic. How can jump create a hype. It's a feature that should be considered normal.
But why should it be considered normal? Just because all the games that you have played have had a jump feature (primarily western games I'm going to assume) does not make it 'normal'. If a game has no reason for you to jump, are you really going to miss being able to do it?
Works for me but lets not get too carried away with it. There are much greater things to be concerned about than jumping in FFXIV.
The better question would be why not have it. Usually the question is why a feature is missing. Ok, maybe I'm wrong and this game will use a quite different type of combat from what I'm used to. For example jumping in Atlantica Online would been quite useless. If that's so, my bad.
Btw I'm playing now an eastern mmorpg and I can't imagine it without jumping. Just watch the video so u can understand why I need to jump in the game I'm on now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os744MwJkKU
Aion is something of an exception in the eastern market since it has flight and therefore jumping makes sense as a useful addition, but I understand your point, and agree that I don't really know why SE won't let players jump. I'm just saying that I don't see the big deal really, but I recognise that there are some players out there who see it as an important aspect of player freedom.
I suppose you can think of the issue with regards to sprinting. Jumping is a real life freedom that we like to have access to in games to make it feel more immersive, but why then does no one mind that our characters are permanently stuck at a slow jog? I remember EQ2 had a universal sprint ability yet all other MMOs I've played relegate sprinting (or other run speed increases) to either class specific skills or enchanted equipment bonuses. Surely everyone would be able to realistically sprint? So why can't we sprint in all MMOs? Surely that should be accepted as a basic feature as well...? But it isn't. The only reason that we as western gamers are so used to jumping is because the majority of western games offer it. Not many games offer sprinting so we aren't used to it and have no issue with it being an absent feature.
Just trying to give it some perspective... I do agree with your views.
I've been playing MMO's for a while and i also think jumping is a core feature for any character based MMO (not strategy like atlantic online).
Not having three degrees of freedom makes it essentially a 2d game and kills a lot of the immersion. It also cuts out a lot of the strategy and exploration. Having three degres of freedom has been a core feature in nearly every new major P2P MMO: WoW, AoC, Aion, LotRO, Fallen Earth, Warhammer Online and even Dark Fall have three degrees of freedom.
If Final Fantasy XIV does not have jumping, then it will drive off a lot of customers that were introduced to the genre by newer MMO's like WoW. Even older users that started with Anarchy Online, like myself, have become accustomed to having that feature in the game; it's hard for me to play any game without jumping.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
And the problem is.... ?
If someone doesn't want to play a game purely because they can't jump, the gaming community is better off without them.
This topic has been covered over and over again but here we go again.
To answer your question:
1) Exploits. People using jump to go to areas they are not supposed to go. Or using it to exploit mobs somehow.
2) Waste of resources. Why should Devs dedicate time to design terrain/mobs so they can't be exploited by jumpers if the jump is not necessary to the game???
3) Bunny hopping. A lot of people, myself included, are annoyed by players jumping all over the screen. It's annoying.
I'm fine with other games that allow jumping if the Devs want it in their game but it is silly to think that jumping should be required in a game for no other reason than it is an MMO. Especially if it serves no purpose.
Man, just add in action points SE. Like you did in FFXIII. No control over it, but at least they'll be that feeling of going up and down with your character and won't be abused by players. The underlying engine is the same, so it shouldn't be too diffulcult or time consuming add in. The only thing that would take time would be the jump animations, but there's more then enough time before launch anyways.
Even if there's no jumping at all, it won't stop me from playing. People refusing to play a game just because it lacks one irrelevant feature are idiots I probably don't want to play with in the first place. Good riddance to be honest.
But probably not as much as they are better off without the game. Seriously, it is jumping. Jumping has been around in gaming since - uh - when?
The funny part is most people probably figured it to be an April Fool's Joke based on saying jumping would be included (like duh) - and then in finding out that there really is no jumping...well, that is just sad.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
The purpose is to make gameplay feel more real.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Yes, just like swimming and flying. These things open up more options in gameplay. I find it remarkable that some people care more about water being shiney, than being able to swim in it.
Gameplay should trump high-end graphic effects.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
If we're going to go into the realism argument...
Show me a guy who can wear full plate, carry a weapon and shield and jump 2 feet into the air. Even chainmail. They can maybe do a little hop/skip, but actual jumping? Good luck with that.
Still are plenty of games that don't have free jump and are still great plays. Jumping (and swimming for that mater) isn't a necessary feature for gameplay. Yes, having it would be nice to add to the immersion, but lacking it shouldn't turn off players from it. That's just showing they were never really interested in the first place.
Because jumping around is something everyone does in real life too right?
Not taking sides here, I honestly don't mind if it's in or not, but there are plenty of games that don't have a jump ability. Both Mass Effect 1/2 and Dragon Age, two very popular RPGs released in the last year, do not have an ability to jump and yet no one complains about it there? Why? In terms of immersion and player freedom both games should be quite similar to MMOs despite being console RPGs and yet the lack of the jump feature here doesn't provoke an outcry at all... Not all RPGs (online or otherwise) have a jump ability, and it doesn't hurt immersion at all.
The only reason people are getting their feathers ruffled over this is because they're used to it in MMOs. In particular they are used to it in western MMOs; FFXIV is a Japanese game and thus their development priorities will differ from ours. I recall an article on here a while back about how western gamers expect eastern developed games to cater to them alone despite being made to appeal to their eastern audiences first and this is a prime example of it. (And to pre-empt the eastern game = korean grinder argument, there is a significant difference between the japanese and other asian gaming communities).
I can jump when I need to, and I can swim, too.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
The single statement throws you out of the target audience for FFXIV.
The final fantasy series has never been about making a " real-life " simulator. It has always been about placing a character in a believeable world within a fantasy setting. If being able not to jump doesn't allow you to be immersed then I hope you would seriously consider not purchasing FFXIV in the future.
Responses in Green
Yet how often do you do either? If you come across a river do you swim across it? No you walk along til you find a bridge. If you find a fence do you jump over it? No you walk a few metres to the gate. I'm willing to bet that most people do not have any need to jump or swim at all most days.
And the ones in little or NO armour?
If you are saying a game should have have encumbrance effects - I completely agree. That is another area in which MMO have a LONG way to go.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Quoted For Truth. Thank you for leaving the Matrix.
For the rest of your responses, see my reply to MMO Doubter above.
Most people don't run everywhere, either.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Sort of.
Like I said, the best middle ground for this argument is to add in action points. Like in FFXIII. And an even more prime example, LoZ: Ocarina of Time.
SE obviously didn't even think about jumping when they designed their world, so exploits are there galore. If they did add in jumping, they would seriously have some work to do redesigning the landscape. This can easily be solved if they had controlled jumping in the game.
And just because we can jump in real life whenever we want, it's not like we actually do it that much. I don't suddenly break into a leap when I'm walking/jogging with friends. But I will if something comes across me, like a fence. Again, controlled points for jumping would just make more sense.