The thing is, the stories aren't terribly cliche in comparison... I mean Jade Empire I felt wasn't cliche at all, KOTOR was a new take on an old IP. Dragon Age I could take or leave, and Mass Effect followed a decent Sci-Fi storyline not unlike others, but no more cliche then others.
I didn't comment on Folklore, Syberia, or silent hills primarily because I didn't play them. I played the first Silent Hill and wasn't impressed so I didn't play the second.
Metal Gear follows a main storyline, but its the same thing continuously, the gameplay doesn't change drastically and though there are little differences within each part of the story.. how is it different from the legend of Zelda that follows the same basic pattern across a timeless storyline? I mean I'm not saying these games aren't good, I'm just saying as far as the stories go... how original is it to have the same hero doing the same things countless times over?
I never said that how BioWare games SELL will be used to refute the greatness of their story. The Twilight books seem to be extremely popular, but I tried to read one and couldn't get past the first chapter... the writing was terrible. BioWare stories appeal to a large population, they are popular for their story.. that doesn't mean they are talentless hacks. What it does mean is that they are giving people what they currently want from them. On their next IP they may do something completely different.
You are mistaken about Metal Gear Solid storyline, it is not about the hero, it is about several characters withing a timeline, it is by no mean similar to Zelda or the "same hero doing things countless times over". Check what happened between MGS2 and MGS4, your impressions about the series are not acurrate.
Silent Hill 2 is possibly the most mature and moral complex storyline you can find in a game, very different than the first one. It is all about guilt , sexual and emotional frustrations and the personal fears of the main character. Syberia and Folklore are also very original, if you enjoy games in general I would recommend them. (If you can, check the videos I posted here)
Not sure Bioware games are popular for their story, probably the acessibility of their games and the narrative have more appeal than the story/plot itself. It is easy to find people who enjoy the game play and interaction between characters but doen't really care about the plot.
Appeal is not equal to originality or depth, so this argument doesn't really make any real difference. Sometimes cliches have much more appeal than originality, just compare the acessibility of typical fantasy standarts with the comercial appeal of a more unique and poetic (also unpopular) game like Folklore.
And sometimes appeal is more related to how the story is told than the story itself, Assassins Creed has a very interesting plot but the narrative could be much better.
I never said they (Bioware) are talentless hacks, I do not agree with this affirmation. But I agree they are not the most unique, original or inspired game developers/story tellers outhere even with the fact that I enjoy their games.
Also you talk about themes, but nothing you've touched on is even related to themes. Faith (and even the abuse of it), fear of things we don't understand, personal responsibility vs. social responsibility, these are what we call "themes" and all of these have a huge importance in all these three narratives and not surprisingly so - because, surprise surprise, they're all part of the "rite of passage" outlined in Joseph Campbell's books. So instead of trying to make a liar out of me to no avail, really, do go and read Campbell, Lévi-Strauss and Propp, read about the "universal" dreams shared throughout the world's different cultures, the similarities between their heroes' journeys in legends and fairy tales. They're the key to truly comprehending what fantasy writing is all about.
Sorry for side-tracking, but it seems to me that you haven't actually read the books you are refering to; you are using such generic remarks that you could equally well have quoted them from Wikipedia. Also, your list is like a full house of structuralist thought that can be criticised quite openly from projecting structures where those don't exist, hence the entire post-structuralist movement that actually started already during 1960s at latest. A structure of universal human thought is like a dream you are refering to, next you could start a crusade to look for linguistic tertium comparationis Noam Chomsky outlined. Maybe next time just stick to the conversation and leave pointless references to aged academic theories where they belong.
Also, your analysis of similarities based on word-level leads to a situation where even trained monkeys would be able to make all of world's literature, an assumption that was pampered at around the same time those theories you proposed were made. I can say that a word spawn and its variants can be found from books since 14th century, does that make those books a direct predecessor of Dragon Age: Origins? Not really, no.
Bioware is a company full of talentless hacks. Nowadays, at the very least.
Giving them credit where it's due: Their voice acting is of top quality, the combat is ( usually ) quite well designed and the graphical style of their games allows them to run on pretty much any system.
But, their plot lines are cliché and pretty much exactly the same ( the only exception was Neverwinter Nights, and that was milked to hell ), the out-of-company sequels to their games are far better than their in company ones ( and the only reason they're considered not comparable is because those companies get rushed due to not being Bioware ) and they steal concepts from other books and games, such as Dragon Age - the Darkspawn of which are a blatant rip of R. Scott Bakker's Prince of Nothing series.
All Bioware is capable of these days is repeating their same old crap sequel after sequel after new franchise. Character suffers tragedy, goes into universe / world, joins extra-special order, recruits companions, does series of pretty much linear zones interspered with "side quests", fights disappointing boss, saves day.
And, if you're expecting anything seriously different from SW:TOR, you're sadly mistaken.
Maybe I'm more enlightened than you (doubt it) but I wouldn't call anything that comes out very original, ask my wife she goes crazy when LOST is on and I am able to tell her exactly what is going to happen. I don't begrudge the op or anyone to have an opinion that goes against what Bioware has garnered as a reputation but I wonder if Bioware is this bad who is better?
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Bioware is a company full of talentless hacks. Nowadays, at the very least.
Giving them credit where it's due: Their voice acting is of top quality, the combat is ( usually ) quite well designed and the graphical style of their games allows them to run on pretty much any system.
But, their plot lines are cliché and pretty much exactly the same ( the only exception was Neverwinter Nights, and that was milked to hell ), the out-of-company sequels to their games are far better than their in company ones ( and the only reason they're considered not comparable is because those companies get rushed due to not being Bioware ) and they steal concepts from other books and games, such as Dragon Age - the Darkspawn of which are a blatant rip of R. Scott Bakker's Prince of Nothing series.
All Bioware is capable of these days is repeating their same old crap sequel after sequel after new franchise. Character suffers tragedy, goes into universe / world, joins extra-special order, recruits companions, does series of pretty much linear zones interspered with "side quests", fights disappointing boss, saves day.
And, if you're expecting anything seriously different from SW:TOR, you're sadly mistaken.
Just to let you know all you describe is the typical hero archetype that every story uses. Archetypes aren't rip offs or unoriginal, they are the skeleton of every good story. There are deeper details in there, you just have to pick them out. But to say talentless hacks? Thats a bit harsh. They use the same elements everyone else uses, and that doesn't make them talentless hacks. Every story takes elements from other stories. Learn about the idea of inter texts. Everything is ripped of from everything else, nothing is completely original. And your post is very cliche too
Just to let you know all you describe is the typical hero archetype that every story uses. Archetypes aren't rip offs or unoriginal, they are the skeleton of every good story. There are deeper details in there, you just have to pick them out. But to say talentless hacks? Thats a bit harsh. They use the same elements everyone else uses, and that doesn't make them talentless hacks. Every story takes elements from other stories. Learn about the idea of inter texts. Everything is ripped of from everything else, nothing is completely original. And your post is very cliche too
The plotline of Bioware games is transposed from one game to another, with some scenery change.
They seem to have hit a formulaic rut not only on story but game construction as well. Production values are still pretty high but they need to take a few risks and push at a few boundaries. Hopefully there foray into the MMO space will produce something interesting.
Like I already said, they use the same archetype, just like every single hero quest story does. That doesn't make them, or other writers hacks. I would love for u to find me an example of a good hero quest that doesn't use the elements you named. If you don''t understand the concept of archetypes or intertexts, you really have no validity commenting on storytelling.
Like I already said, they use the same archetype, just like every single hero quest story does. That doesn't make them, or other writers hacks. I would love for u to find me an example of a good hero quest that doesn't use the elements you named. If you don''t understand the concept of archetypes or intertexts, you really have no validity commenting on storytelling.
Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate 2, Neverwinter Nights ( the only Bioware game WITHOUT those elements ), Planescape: Torment, Icewind Dale, Icewind Dale 2, The Elder Scrolls:Morrowind, need I go on?
Bioware don't use an archetype for their games, they use a cookie cutter. There's a difference
Like I already said, they use the same archetype, just like every single hero quest story does. That doesn't make them, or other writers hacks. I would love for u to find me an example of a good hero quest that doesn't use the elements you named. If you don''t understand the concept of archetypes or intertexts, you really have no validity commenting on storytelling.
Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate 2, Neverwinter Nights ( the only Bioware game WITHOUT those elements ), Planescape: Torment, Icewind Dale, Icewind Dale 2, The Elder Scrolls:Morrowind, need I go on?
Bioware don't use an archetype for their games, they use a cookie cutter. There's a difference. Stop talking and GTFO my thread.
Hahaha, I get it now, you're one of those sandbox, FFA "players". Sorry, but there are other games in the world other then your small niche titles. Let me know how your time machine works out when you go back in time where developers just rehashed those old sandbox style games instead of the high production story based ones. None of these had better "story", and all except for morrowind were frightfully rigid in gameplay that appealed to a virtually small community. Theres really nothing left for you to do OTHER then attack BioWare as they've mainstreamed RPGs in such a way that more companies are taking on their approach then the previous DnD ruleset experience.
Like I already said, they use the same archetype, just like every single hero quest story does. That doesn't make them, or other writers hacks. I would love for u to find me an example of a good hero quest that doesn't use the elements you named. If you don''t understand the concept of archetypes or intertexts, you really have no validity commenting on storytelling.
You are confusing archetype and stereotype. Similarly he was asserting plagiarism which is a fine line from intertextuality but nonetheless different.
Like I already said, they use the same archetype, just like every single hero quest story does. That doesn't make them, or other writers hacks. I would love for u to find me an example of a good hero quest that doesn't use the elements you named. If you don''t understand the concept of archetypes or intertexts, you really have no validity commenting on storytelling.
Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate 2, Neverwinter Nights ( the only Bioware game WITHOUT those elements ), Planescape: Torment, Icewind Dale, Icewind Dale 2, The Elder Scrolls:Morrowind, need I go on?
Bioware don't use an archetype for their games, they use a cookie cutter. There's a difference. Stop talking and GTFO my thread.
Cookie cutter? GTFO of my thread? Really thats all you got. Clearly you are just trolling because you are not willing to try and add anything. You just use name calling, and actually they do you archetypes and intertexts, those aren't cookie cutter. They are what make up all lit, which is what the story telling in games as well. And those games you mentioned do have elements other used as well. If you don't like the stories because they don't work for you, thats fine. Hey DA didn't really do it for me. But if you say that they are just hacks who rip off everything is just out of line and ignorant.
Hmm, interesting, now I'm almost positive you don't know what you're talking about here. There are scores of similarities I could show you, especially when it comes to WoT, but you'll excuse me if I don't put that much effort without being paid in return. So here are a few:
First, let's start with your examples. If you'd taken your own advice and actually bothered to read those books, you'd be aware that both of those examples also hold true with Wheel of Time. In WoT, the "dark forces" are actually called "Shadowspawn" and "Darkfriends". Hey, you can even form the word "Darkspawn" from them! And the entirity of the dark forces is called... wait for it... "The Blight". They also have a long-dormant deity/power in Shaitan.
And I'm sure you'd notice the similarity between two organizations of wardens that keep the darkness at bay - namely Grey Wardens in DAO and the Night's Watch in ASoIaF. As for the tone (which you deem high fantasy melodrama), even Bioware themselves admitted they were inspired more by Martin's (in my opinion not really impressive) Grey-with-a-capital-G line of doing things than others.
As for the mage analogy, it's in many many ways like the Aes Sedai in WoT. Mages have to be registered to a central organization (the Aes Sedai as vs the Chantry), have to be taken to a tower and be tutored there, not allowed to leave (Mage's Tower vs White Tower in Tar Valon), unregistered, "wild" mages are a danger to society (abominations in DAO and madness in WoT). Also how interesting that the "cleansing of the taint" on the mages is the central motif of a whole book in WoT.
I' also say The Fade in DAO is pretty like Tel'aran'rhiod in WoT.
Also you talk about themes, but nothing you've touched on is even related to themes. Faith (and even the abuse of it), fear of things we don't understand, personal responsibility vs. social responsibility, these are what we call "themes" and all of these have a huge importance in all these three narratives and not surprisingly so - because, surprise surprise, they're all part of the "rite of passage" outlined in Joseph Campbell's books. So instead of trying to make a liar out of me to no avail, really, do go and read Campbell, Lévi-Strauss and Propp, read about the "universal" dreams shared throughout the world's different cultures, the similarities between their heroes' journeys in legends and fairy tales. They're the key to truly comprehending what fantasy writing is all about.
I could go on, but I'm pretty sure I've made my point and I don't want to write a book on it.... but trust me, I can - and I'm not to saying I won't.
Feel free to carry on forming tenuous links off "themes" never truly ascendent in the fantasy works you've mentioned, I'm sure it makes you feel better to have read a variety of works of basic anthropology - and then to use them as an argument on MMO forums. ;D
Here's a clue: You're failing to argue a point. You're all over the place, making jumps between tropes that are subversions of contemporary fantasy and their contemporary counterparts. ( Contemporary example: Wizard's training tower in WoT, Attempted subversion: Dragon Age's wizard's training tower, True subversion: R. Scott Bakker's wizard schools. ) Try making a cohesive argument before bringing anthropologists into it.
Nice attempt of a proof via verbosity, though. You almost managed it until I realised what drivel you were typing.
Maybe you should both widen your reading regimen so you can realise that most of the what you are arguing aobut can be found in many.,many...MANY fantasy and Scifi novels not just limited to books you love or have read.
But I have to say...if DA:0 was based on the WoT books thne it would of bene the same amount of game time to complete but it would of comprised of listening to all the characters be emo and then ended where one of the starting areas finished with the promise of something actually happening in the next game. 8P
Hahaha, I get it now, you're one of those sandbox, FFA "players". Sorry, but there are other games in the world other then your small niche titles. Let me know how your time machine works out when you go back in time where developers just rehashed those old sandbox style games instead of the high production story based ones. None of these had better "story", and all except for morrowind were frightfully rigid in gameplay that appealed to a virtually small community. Theres really nothing left for you to do OTHER then attack BioWare as they've mainstreamed RPGs in such a way that more companies are taking on their approach then the previous DnD ruleset experience.
Ahahahahahahah.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.
Oh, god, you're a funny man. I think you'll find that Oblivion ( you know, one of those FFA "sandbox" games that you seem to possess vitriolic hatred for ) mainstreamed the RPG genre on consoles. Also, it's the predecessor to that game that had "frightfully rigid" gameplay that "appealed to a virtually small community". ( That game achieved critical success on a ridiculously amazing level, by the by. )
You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you? Have you ever played a pre-KotOR Bioware RPG? They're actually good, you know? Go try Baldur's Gate or Planescape. As someone else said, when Black Isle died, Bioware lost all originality in their plotlines.
So, GTFO and don't come back until you have a clue. Thank you.
Cookie cutter? GTFO of my thread? Really thats all you got. Clearly you are just trolling because you are not willing to try and add anything. You just use name calling, and actually they do you archetypes and intertexts, those aren't cookie cutter. They are what make up all lit, which is what the story telling in games as well. And those games you mentioned do have elements other used as well. If you don't like the stories because they don't work for you, thats fine. Hey DA didn't really do it for me. But if you say that they are just hacks who rip off everything is just out of line and ignorant.
Oh, god, this is good. You're now pulling out random words and phrases from other people's posts in an attempt to make you seem intellectual. :') Respect, man.
Cookie cutter? GTFO of my thread? Really thats all you got. Clearly you are just trolling because you are not willing to try and add anything. You just use name calling, and actually they do you archetypes and intertexts, those aren't cookie cutter. They are what make up all lit, which is what the story telling in games as well. And those games you mentioned do have elements other used as well. If you don't like the stories because they don't work for you, thats fine. Hey DA didn't really do it for me. But if you say that they are just hacks who rip off everything is just out of line and ignorant.
Oh, god, this is good. You're now pulling out random words and phrases from other people's posts in an attempt to make you seem intellectual. :') Respect, man.
Whatever man, no use continuing to try and have a real conversation since you are clearly just trying to troll. Those "random words" I use are actually the foundation of the fantasy genre which you clearly enjoy. If you want to get more out of those stories you really should learn what those mean, because you clearly do not. And your posts sound like all the other "I hate Bioware" posts. You really aren't being the cool nonconformist you are trying to be.
Hahaha, I get it now, you're one of those sandbox, FFA "players". Sorry, but there are other games in the world other then your small niche titles. Let me know how your time machine works out when you go back in time where developers just rehashed those old sandbox style games instead of the high production story based ones. None of these had better "story", and all except for morrowind were frightfully rigid in gameplay that appealed to a virtually small community. Theres really nothing left for you to do OTHER then attack BioWare as they've mainstreamed RPGs in such a way that more companies are taking on their approach then the previous DnD ruleset experience.
Ahahahahahahah.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.
Oh, god, you're a funny man. I think you'll find that Oblivion ( you know, one of those FFA "sandbox" games that you seem to possess vitriolic hatred for ) mainstreamed the RPG genre on consoles. Also, it's the predecessor to that game that had "frightfully rigid" gameplay that "appealed to a virtually small community". ( That game achieved critical success on a ridiculously amazing level, by the by. )
You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you? Have you ever played a pre-KotOR Bioware RPG? They're actually good, you know? Go try Baldur's Gate or Planescape. As someone else said, when Black Isle died, Bioware lost all originality in their plotlines.
So, GTFO and don't come back until you have a clue. Thank you.
Do I have no idea what I'm talking about? "Have you ever played a pre-kotor bioware RPG? They're actually good, you know?" HA yeah they were good, they were great for their time. BioWares engine for NWN was used in other games, which is how good BioWare was. Not Black Isles engine, it was BioWares. Your forgotten realms games sold a meager amount in comparison to the widely popular BioWare games of today.
I don't have to be overly aggressive and dismissive, to prove my point, your opinion means very little as you have no proof of any of your claims other then your opinion. I know for a fact BioWare games are some of the top selling games of all time. You can try to refute that all you want, but as long as people are enjoying the "ol' rehash" or however you want to describe it, people will continue to buy it, so you can sit here and complain about it all you want, but you'll still have to deal with it. While I'm actually having fun in TOR, you can try and refute how its still a single player game on the forums okay. Great.
Some famous thinker, from ancient Greece,(I could google this to get exact name and phrase, but PFFFT the phrase from memory is good enough) said, "There are only 7 true stories in this world, everything is a variation of these" now if some bloke 2000 odd years ago, could spot a good reason for cliches, there aint much hope for you modern lot.
And that is my exact point, all stories will have some variation however they will all be loosely based on the same subject matter. Good vs Evil, Underdog vs Favorite... on and on
Do I have no idea what I'm talking about? "Have you ever played a pre-kotor bioware RPG? They're actually good, you know?" HA yeah they were good, they were great for their time. BioWares engine for NWN was used in other games, which is how good BioWare was. Not Black Isles engine, it was BioWares. Your forgotten realms games sold a meager amount in comparison to the widely popular BioWare games of today.
I don't have to be overly aggressive and dismissive, to prove my point, your opinion means very little as you have no proof of any of your claims other then your opinion. I know for a fact BioWare games are some of the top selling games of all time. You can try to refute that all you want, but as long as people are enjoying the "ol' rehash" or however you want to describe it, people will continue to buy it, so you can sit here and complain about it all you want, but you'll still have to deal with it. While I'm actually having fun in TOR, you can try and refute how its still a single player game on the forums okay. Great.
You mean those Bioware games that used the engine? And the Witcher? *pat pat* A development company trying to save itself cash quickly is certainly going to use an out of date engine, especially if it's of their own design. Compare with the Black Isle and Bioware Infinity Engine, which created some of the most influential RPGs of all time. You're still acting like a clown. It's rather funny.
By the way, saying that games that're considered the greatest ones of all time are crap is utterly, utterly hilarious. DA:O won't get featured on any "best games ever" lists, but Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale and Planescape: Torment will.
I don't know why you aren't complaining about this in a literature forum. All stories are the same in that sense. Star Wars, LOTR, Fight Club, most comics, even Shaun of the Dead follows that story arc. It's not the actual story we're drawn in by. It's the characters and the inbetween stuff. How the story itself fleshes out is the key and bioware does THAT well. THAT's why they are so good at stories. Not because of the plot itself. All movies, games, books, and comics have the same plot.
You know, regardless of what people think of bioware, this thread has got me thinkin'
Who aren't talentless hacks?
I can't recall one game on here that is unanimously loved.
Or even game developer for that matter.
I agree...
Anyone here can pick up one company that they revere and think is the god of games, and I can most likely dig up something negative about that company from someone else...
Haters haters everywhere...but none who stops and think.
Comments
You are mistaken about Metal Gear Solid storyline, it is not about the hero, it is about several characters withing a timeline, it is by no mean similar to Zelda or the "same hero doing things countless times over". Check what happened between MGS2 and MGS4, your impressions about the series are not acurrate.
Silent Hill 2 is possibly the most mature and moral complex storyline you can find in a game, very different than the first one. It is all about guilt , sexual and emotional frustrations and the personal fears of the main character. Syberia and Folklore are also very original, if you enjoy games in general I would recommend them. (If you can, check the videos I posted here)
Not sure Bioware games are popular for their story, probably the acessibility of their games and the narrative have more appeal than the story/plot itself. It is easy to find people who enjoy the game play and interaction between characters but doen't really care about the plot.
Appeal is not equal to originality or depth, so this argument doesn't really make any real difference. Sometimes cliches have much more appeal than originality, just compare the acessibility of typical fantasy standarts with the comercial appeal of a more unique and poetic (also unpopular) game like Folklore.
And sometimes appeal is more related to how the story is told than the story itself, Assassins Creed has a very interesting plot but the narrative could be much better.
I never said they (Bioware) are talentless hacks, I do not agree with this affirmation. But I agree they are not the most unique, original or inspired game developers/story tellers outhere even with the fact that I enjoy their games.
Sorry for side-tracking, but it seems to me that you haven't actually read the books you are refering to; you are using such generic remarks that you could equally well have quoted them from Wikipedia. Also, your list is like a full house of structuralist thought that can be criticised quite openly from projecting structures where those don't exist, hence the entire post-structuralist movement that actually started already during 1960s at latest. A structure of universal human thought is like a dream you are refering to, next you could start a crusade to look for linguistic tertium comparationis Noam Chomsky outlined. Maybe next time just stick to the conversation and leave pointless references to aged academic theories where they belong.
Also, your analysis of similarities based on word-level leads to a situation where even trained monkeys would be able to make all of world's literature, an assumption that was pampered at around the same time those theories you proposed were made. I can say that a word spawn and its variants can be found from books since 14th century, does that make those books a direct predecessor of Dragon Age: Origins? Not really, no.
Cool story bro.
-------------------------
"Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"
Member Since March 2004
Maybe I'm more enlightened than you (doubt it) but I wouldn't call anything that comes out very original, ask my wife she goes crazy when LOST is on and I am able to tell her exactly what is going to happen. I don't begrudge the op or anyone to have an opinion that goes against what Bioware has garnered as a reputation but I wonder if Bioware is this bad who is better?
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Just to let you know all you describe is the typical hero archetype that every story uses. Archetypes aren't rip offs or unoriginal, they are the skeleton of every good story. There are deeper details in there, you just have to pick them out. But to say talentless hacks? Thats a bit harsh. They use the same elements everyone else uses, and that doesn't make them talentless hacks. Every story takes elements from other stories. Learn about the idea of inter texts. Everything is ripped of from everything else, nothing is completely original. And your post is very cliche too
The plotline of Bioware games is transposed from one game to another, with some scenery change.
They seem to have hit a formulaic rut not only on story but game construction as well. Production values are still pretty high but they need to take a few risks and push at a few boundaries. Hopefully there foray into the MMO space will produce something interesting.
Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate 2, Neverwinter Nights ( the only Bioware game WITHOUT those elements ), Planescape: Torment, Icewind Dale, Icewind Dale 2, The Elder Scrolls:Morrowind, need I go on?
Bioware don't use an archetype for their games, they use a cookie cutter. There's a difference
[mod edit]
I expected nothing less from a cerebral giant like yourself...
Hahaha, I get it now, you're one of those sandbox, FFA "players". Sorry, but there are other games in the world other then your small niche titles. Let me know how your time machine works out when you go back in time where developers just rehashed those old sandbox style games instead of the high production story based ones. None of these had better "story", and all except for morrowind were frightfully rigid in gameplay that appealed to a virtually small community. Theres really nothing left for you to do OTHER then attack BioWare as they've mainstreamed RPGs in such a way that more companies are taking on their approach then the previous DnD ruleset experience.
You are confusing archetype and stereotype. Similarly he was asserting plagiarism which is a fine line from intertextuality but nonetheless different.
Cookie cutter? GTFO of my thread? Really thats all you got. Clearly you are just trolling because you are not willing to try and add anything. You just use name calling, and actually they do you archetypes and intertexts, those aren't cookie cutter. They are what make up all lit, which is what the story telling in games as well. And those games you mentioned do have elements other used as well. If you don't like the stories because they don't work for you, thats fine. Hey DA didn't really do it for me. But if you say that they are just hacks who rip off everything is just out of line and ignorant.
Maybe you should both widen your reading regimen so you can realise that most of the what you are arguing aobut can be found in many.,many...MANY fantasy and Scifi novels not just limited to books you love or have read.
But I have to say...if DA:0 was based on the WoT books thne it would of bene the same amount of game time to complete but it would of comprised of listening to all the characters be emo and then ended where one of the starting areas finished with the promise of something actually happening in the next game. 8P
Ahahahahahahah.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.
Oh, god, you're a funny man. I think you'll find that Oblivion ( you know, one of those FFA "sandbox" games that you seem to possess vitriolic hatred for ) mainstreamed the RPG genre on consoles. Also, it's the predecessor to that game that had "frightfully rigid" gameplay that "appealed to a virtually small community". ( That game achieved critical success on a ridiculously amazing level, by the by. )
You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you? Have you ever played a pre-KotOR Bioware RPG? They're actually good, you know? Go try Baldur's Gate or Planescape. As someone else said, when Black Isle died, Bioware lost all originality in their plotlines.
So, GTFO and don't come back until you have a clue. Thank you.
Oh, god, this is good. You're now pulling out random words and phrases from other people's posts in an attempt to make you seem intellectual. :') Respect, man.
Phew, smells like a Blizzard fanboys convention in here. Open a window to get some fresh air.
Whatever man, no use continuing to try and have a real conversation since you are clearly just trying to troll. Those "random words" I use are actually the foundation of the fantasy genre which you clearly enjoy. If you want to get more out of those stories you really should learn what those mean, because you clearly do not. And your posts sound like all the other "I hate Bioware" posts. You really aren't being the cool nonconformist you are trying to be.
Do I have no idea what I'm talking about? "Have you ever played a pre-kotor bioware RPG? They're actually good, you know?" HA yeah they were good, they were great for their time. BioWares engine for NWN was used in other games, which is how good BioWare was. Not Black Isles engine, it was BioWares. Your forgotten realms games sold a meager amount in comparison to the widely popular BioWare games of today.
I don't have to be overly aggressive and dismissive, to prove my point, your opinion means very little as you have no proof of any of your claims other then your opinion. I know for a fact BioWare games are some of the top selling games of all time. You can try to refute that all you want, but as long as people are enjoying the "ol' rehash" or however you want to describe it, people will continue to buy it, so you can sit here and complain about it all you want, but you'll still have to deal with it. While I'm actually having fun in TOR, you can try and refute how its still a single player game on the forums okay. Great.
Some famous thinker, from ancient Greece,(I could google this to get exact name and phrase, but PFFFT the phrase from memory is good enough) said, "There are only 7 true stories in this world, everything is a variation of these" now if some bloke 2000 odd years ago, could spot a good reason for cliches, there aint much hope for you modern lot.
And that is my exact point, all stories will have some variation however they will all be loosely based on the same subject matter. Good vs Evil, Underdog vs Favorite... on and on
You know, regardless of what people think of bioware, this thread has got me thinkin'
Who aren't talentless hacks?
I can't recall one game on here that is unanimously loved.
Or even game developer for that matter.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
You mean those Bioware games that used the engine? And the Witcher? *pat pat* A development company trying to save itself cash quickly is certainly going to use an out of date engine, especially if it's of their own design. Compare with the Black Isle and Bioware Infinity Engine, which created some of the most influential RPGs of all time. You're still acting like a clown. It's rather funny.
By the way, saying that games that're considered the greatest ones of all time are crap is utterly, utterly hilarious. DA:O won't get featured on any "best games ever" lists, but Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale and Planescape: Torment will.
kthxbai.
I don't know why you aren't complaining about this in a literature forum. All stories are the same in that sense. Star Wars, LOTR, Fight Club, most comics, even Shaun of the Dead follows that story arc. It's not the actual story we're drawn in by. It's the characters and the inbetween stuff. How the story itself fleshes out is the key and bioware does THAT well. THAT's why they are so good at stories. Not because of the plot itself. All movies, games, books, and comics have the same plot.
Stop being silly.
I agree...
Anyone here can pick up one company that they revere and think is the god of games, and I can most likely dig up something negative about that company from someone else...
Haters haters everywhere...but none who stops and think.