Feel free to carry on forming tenuous links off "themes" never truly ascendent in the fantasy works you've mentioned, I'm sure it makes you feel better to have read a variety of works of basic anthropology - and then to use them as an argument on MMO forums. ;D
Here's a clue: You're failing to argue a point. You're all over the place, making jumps between tropes that are subversions of contemporary fantasy and their contemporary counterparts. ( Contemporary example: Wizard's training tower in WoT, Attempted subversion: Dragon Age's wizard's training tower, True subversion: R. Scott Bakker's wizard schools. ) Try making a cohesive argument before bringing anthropologists into it.
Nice attempt of a proof via verbosity, though. You almost managed it until I realised what drivel you were typing.
I did argue a point quite clearly in my previous post: It was that the whole fantasy genre owes deeply to classic epic storytelling and that Bioware is just sticking to the conventions and motifs outlined there, and that this in no way amounts to being "talentless hacks" or else you could call pretty much any fantasy writer a talentless hack. I can show you similarities in any fantasy writer's work to other famous fantasy writers' works. This is just how this genre works. (To Drakynn: That was exactly the point I've made in my previous post. It's not that Bioware is stealing from just these two particular works of fiction, it's that it's natural it'll have many similarities with many other works, and I'm giving two more examples in addition to the OP's one.)
The post above does not argue a new point, it's just putting forward some similarities in the works you claimed had none. I think some of them are better and more numerous than the similarities you put forward. You should have rebutted those and showed much more potent analogies if you want to insist on your original point that *Bioware stole from one particular series* rather than feed on the whole tradition. Because you haven't yet made a good work of it. Remember, you're the one arguing the original point here! I was not even the one claiming Bioware "stole" from others to begin with, it was you; so the burden of proof lies on your shoulders.
As for the themes, I could defend how those indeed suggest themselves pretty naturally in those books, but that'd be further derailing the thread so I'm going to refrain from that. I'm confident I'm not typing drivel, though I can see how it may seem so to you, I perfectly know what I'm saying. The works of "anthropology" might come across as heavy-handed or snobbish but they indeed serve as guidelines for many many fantasy writers.
So in short: It is you with the original argument, so I say go ahead and make a good work of it at least.
EDIT: Oh, and Harkkum: You really did go on a tangent with my stuff there. If you want to discuss my knowledge of the works I mentioned, I can do that, believe me I've read them several times. So if you really do want that, just PM me so that we won't further bore people to their death. Though the point remains that I'm not making a point about humanity itself but the fantasy genre, in which Bioware's many stories reside. So it indeed is related to the subject, I am careful to not totally derail the topic, and I'm not trying make myself look like anything. I am totally faithful to the topic at hand. The authors I mentioned may be passe in terms of academic thinking (which I'd challenge, but I digress), but they have made their mark on the genre and explain why this particular form of fiction works as it does. The fantasy writers consciously as well as unconsciously employ these motifs now. And I concede the "spawns" - it's meant to be a humorous jab anyway! - but overall my similarities make at least as much sense as those of the OP, and that was the point.
Do I have no idea what I'm talking about? "Have you ever played a pre-kotor bioware RPG? They're actually good, you know?" HA yeah they were good, they were great for their time. BioWares engine for NWN was used in other games, which is how good BioWare was. Not Black Isles engine, it was BioWares. Your forgotten realms games sold a meager amount in comparison to the widely popular BioWare games of today.
I don't have to be overly aggressive and dismissive, to prove my point, your opinion means very little as you have no proof of any of your claims other then your opinion. I know for a fact BioWare games are some of the top selling games of all time. You can try to refute that all you want, but as long as people are enjoying the "ol' rehash" or however you want to describe it, people will continue to buy it, so you can sit here and complain about it all you want, but you'll still have to deal with it. While I'm actually having fun in TOR, you can try and refute how its still a single player game on the forums okay. Great.
You mean those Bioware games that used the engine? And the Witcher? *pat pat* A development company trying to save itself cash quickly is certainly going to use an out of date engine, especially if it's of their own design. Compare with the Black Isle and Bioware Infinity Engine, which created some of the most influential RPGs of all time. You're still acting like a clown. It's rather funny.
By the way, saying that games that're considered the greatest ones of all time are crap is utterly, utterly hilarious. DA:O won't get featured on any "best games ever" lists, but Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale and Planescape: Torment will.
kthxbai.
Well sure it won't get featured on that list, because it does what other games did in the past. That doesn't mean it's a bad game by any means. It's exuded a level of polish and depth that many RPGS that are NOT created by bioware rarely reach. This is what it will be remembered for. Also, it's already made it to one of the best games of 2009. It was in the top 5 spot on many lists, actually. You don't need to make the best game ever list to be good, though. I didn't see Ultima online on any of those best games ever lists, but I know a lot of people just on this site that would swear up and down that they could play that for the rest of their life (the old one of course).
they must be a bunch of talentless hacks with all the money they are raking in and how all of their games get great reviews from hundreds of different game reviewers. Yes they must be. millions of ppl buying their games and loving them cant possibly mean anything except that they are horrible at making games. I imagine the people at bioware are crying themselves to sleep every night and wiping those tears away with hundred dollar bills. There is no chance the old republic is gonna be any good, I mean its only based on star wars, whats that? Bioware is probably gonna get closed down with this type of performance. Surely this must be the case. That star wars game they are making probably wont even be released.
seriously this thread is retarded. Its like trying to argue Tom brady not being a good qb ( and I hate him ). his resume speaks for itself just like biowares. every game they make has turned to gold and it doesnt matter if a small group of ppl hate their games cause the majority loves em. get over it and move on with your life
Bioware is a company full of talentless hacks. Nowadays, at the very least.
Giving them credit where it's due: Their voice acting is of top quality, the combat is ( usually ) quite well designed and the graphical style of their games allows them to run on pretty much any system.
But, their plot lines are cliché and pretty much exactly the same ( the only exception was Neverwinter Nights, and that was milked to hell ), the out-of-company sequels to their games are far better than their in company ones ( and the only reason they're considered not comparable is because those companies get rushed due to not being Bioware ) and they steal concepts from other books and games, such as Dragon Age - the Darkspawn of which are a blatant rip of R. Scott Bakker's Prince of Nothing series.
All Bioware is capable of these days is repeating their same old crap sequel after sequel after new franchise. Character suffers tragedy, goes into universe / world, joins extra-special order, recruits companions, does series of pretty much linear zones interspered with "side quests", fights disappointing boss, saves day.
And, if you're expecting anything seriously different from SW:TOR, you're sadly mistaken.
But at the end of the day they sell millions because they do the games very well. I never heard of Mass Effect but i stumbled upon it and i ended up loving it.
My reason, the story is intriguing and keeps you griped to the end. The touch of the good, bad persona is replayable in it self to get the different responses.
Look at World of Warcraft, they took every bit of the previous MMO genres before it, and made the probably the most influential game from the genre. So copying and reusing is not a bad thing, it can be a improve.
Do I have no idea what I'm talking about? "Have you ever played a pre-kotor bioware RPG? They're actually good, you know?" HA yeah they were good, they were great for their time. BioWares engine for NWN was used in other games, which is how good BioWare was. Not Black Isles engine, it was BioWares. Your forgotten realms games sold a meager amount in comparison to the widely popular BioWare games of today.
I don't have to be overly aggressive and dismissive, to prove my point, your opinion means very little as you have no proof of any of your claims other then your opinion. I know for a fact BioWare games are some of the top selling games of all time. You can try to refute that all you want, but as long as people are enjoying the "ol' rehash" or however you want to describe it, people will continue to buy it, so you can sit here and complain about it all you want, but you'll still have to deal with it. While I'm actually having fun in TOR, you can try and refute how its still a single player game on the forums okay. Great.
You mean those Bioware games that used the engine? And the Witcher? *pat pat* A development company trying to save itself cash quickly is certainly going to use an out of date engine, especially if it's of their own design. Compare with the Black Isle and Bioware Infinity Engine, which created some of the most influential RPGs of all time. You're still acting like a clown. It's rather funny.
By the way, saying that games that're considered the greatest ones of all time are crap is utterly, utterly hilarious. DA:O won't get featured on any "best games ever" lists, but Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale and Planescape: Torment will.
kthxbai.
I'm glad you think its funny, because you still have to deal with it. The "best games ever" Hey the original Mario was one of the best games ever. Zelda Ocarina of Time is purportedly the best game of all time. Hey these games are great, but that doesn't refute the greatness of the most current BioWare titles. Your opinionated listing of what is the best and the actual unopinionated of what is true are two very different things son. Bioware created the infinity engine, they licensed it to Black Isle, but of course you already knew that as you get all of your information on wikipedia.
In the end, you've got 8 to 14 year old games that you can continue to play, and I'll have a brand new "cliche" story from a high quality, experienced studio with "hack" writers that win awards from places like G4, IGN, and many others like the New York Times (for best story mind you). So who's the real loser here? Not me.
Apparently, someone thinks that the only thing going for SW:TOR is the story-line. Sure, BioWare is all about story-line in their games, but from what I've read and the videos I've seen, SW:TOR is a lot more than just a fancy story based MMO. Player needs in MMO's are changing and BioWare is trying to lead the way, just like Blizzard did with WoW. I'm not saying this game will pull in the numbers like WoW, but I can say it will have both my wife and I playing it come launch. I'll let you know if it sucks or not.
Don't worry... I'll be right there playing it with you!
Played: DAoC 6 years, WoW 2 years, Ultima/EQ 1+ years, AoC/Aion/Rift/SWTOR a few months Tried: Warhammer, EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and many, many others... Currently Playing: DAOC
To my recollection... Mass Effect was the first Bioware game ive played. I really liked it, and decided to play the others that released after the first Mass Effect. Ive happily enjoyed mass effect 2 and Dragon age.
I enjoyed them really for one play through, as anytime I tried a second playthrough, I just got bored knowing whats going to happen.
I really appreciate the voice acting they have in their games, and while the stories in bioware games may seem cliche, I appreciate and enjoy them nonetheless.
I will be looking forward to TOR, having just come from STO and wishing I hadnt forked up the cash for the game. Not because it has the potential to be a huge success, and it may have the risk of divebombing. Im looking forward to it because its made by bioware, and my expierence with this developer has been a good one. If TOR tanks... oh well.. .there are other games out there. If TOR is a success... then awesome.
It's so true, bioware sucks at storylines. It's like they take them from a book of cliché.
Glad I'm not the only one who sees this. Personally I find little point playing a story-driven game where you already know how it will end, more or less.
Mind you...I'm not a fan of bioware combat systems either; having played baldurs gate, mass effect, and dragon age. I found them to be stale and repetitive.
I thought I was the only one. I dislike mass effect even though it was so highly regarded and I absolutely HATED dragon age. I torrented that piece of linear trash and STILL couldnt be bothered to finish it before uninstalling. Gameplay in a straight ahead tube, no thank you. If i want a story Ill rent a movie man. I game, and rpg game specifically , to explore and be immersed. Nothing immersive about being herded down a set path.
Knowing BioWare's speciality in storytelling, why'd you buy their game in the first place? I just have to ask. It's like saying, "A speeding ticket? I didn't know the Speed Limit was 55!" when you're pulled over under a Speed Limit: 55 sign.
Just saying.
lol very well said if you people don't like Bioware why do you play their games?
Dragon Age sure was a let down. What a pile of filth. It's basically the crappy parts of NWN crossed with WoW w/o the MMO part. It probably wouldn't have been so bad if the story wasn't so generic, the cut scenes didn't look like abunch of medival robots (I thought we were passed that years ago? seriously wtf) and the dialog made have a bit of sense. I could have stomached more of the terrible combat if those parts were good at least.
I think I just need to stop listening to hype given to me by mindless zombies, that's my problem.
If Bioware are just doing theire ordinary thing but in an MMO this time, may i ask why they are doing that if the only people they are aming at are the current fanbase?
Couse i see alot of people in this thread saying: "You knows what kind of games Bioware does, so don`t play this one if you dont like them"
So, why aren`t they just doing an singleplayer game then? Thats right, couse they are not just aiming for you selfish guys!
They are aiming at an bigger audience this time, and therefore people that aren`t usually liking Bioware games are asking the question: What are they doing, why does this game seems to be an instanced singleplayer game with Multiplayer options, why aren`t they being cleare about how the world will be.
There's only so many stories one can tell. Every type of story has been done before. Essentially you grab a story structure and put a fresh new coat of paint and new characters on it and Bioware succeeds at that.
Interesting viewpoint in OP, although Autarch damages his arguments somewhat by dismissing and ridiculing the points made by other posters.
The Baldur's Gate series is certainly a masterpiece, but to say that an Icewind Dale or Blizzard's game storylines are better and more original than a ME or DA:O, well, gonna disagree there. I loved the stories that a Starcraft, Brood War and Warcraft III provded, but they were just as cliche space opera and fantasy as most others I've seen in games.
Fact is, when looking at 19 out of 20 bestselling or popular movies, or books, or games, and you will notice that there's little true originality and that hasn't been done or told elsewhere many times. You'll see very few Sixth Sense or Memento regarding story or plot developments and far more Avatar and Twilight. Same with scifi and fantasy literature. If it comes to games, I don't see that much originality in story and plotlines, even more, many game companies seem to just have attached those as an afterthought. But the Silent Hill and Metal Gear Solid series did have storylines that aren't exactly the norm, which sure helped make them interesting.
But next to originality it's the delivery of the story and plots that count and regarding that Bioware is one of the best, and still is.
Of course, I do hope that their continuing success doesn't make them complacent or fearful to innovate as some other large companies have become.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Dragon Age sure was a let down. What a pile of filth. It's basically the crappy parts of NWN crossed with WoW w/o the MMO part. It probably wouldn't have been so bad if the story wasn't so generic, the cut scenes didn't look like abunch of medival robots (I thought we were passed that years ago? seriously wtf) and the dialog made have a bit of sense. I could have stomached more of the terrible combat if those parts were good at least.
I think I just need to stop listening to hype given to me by mindless zombies, that's my problem.
That's because Drew Karpyshyn didn't write it.
For those who don't know, Drew was the Lead writer for KOTOR, Mass Effect, and of course some REALLY good books (Including the Darth Bane trilogy).
they must be a bunch of talentless hacks with all the money they are raking in and how all of their games get great reviews from hundreds of different game reviewers. Yes they must be. millions of ppl buying their games and loving them cant possibly mean anything except that they are horrible at making games. I imagine the people at bioware are crying themselves to sleep every night and wiping those tears away with hundred dollar bills. There is no chance the old republic is gonna be any good, I mean its only based on star wars, whats that? Bioware is probably gonna get closed down with this type of performance. Surely this must be the case. That star wars game they are making probably wont even be released.
seriously this thread is retarded. Its like trying to argue Tom brady not being a good qb ( and I hate him ). his resume speaks for itself just like biowares. every game they make has turned to gold and it doesnt matter if a small group of ppl hate their games cause the majority loves em. get over it and move on with your life
I believe MW2 got great reviews and sold a ton. That game is FAR from good. Sales and good reviews goes not make a game great.
they must be a bunch of talentless hacks with all the money they are raking in and how all of their games get great reviews from hundreds of different game reviewers. Yes they must be. millions of ppl buying their games and loving them cant possibly mean anything except that they are horrible at making games. I imagine the people at bioware are crying themselves to sleep every night and wiping those tears away with hundred dollar bills. There is no chance the old republic is gonna be any good, I mean its only based on star wars, whats that? Bioware is probably gonna get closed down with this type of performance. Surely this must be the case. That star wars game they are making probably wont even be released.
Seriously this thread is retarded. Its like trying to argue Tom brady not being a good qb ( and I hate him ). his resume speaks for itself just like biowares. every game they make has turned to gold and it doesnt matter if a small group of ppl hate their games cause the majority loves em. Get over it and move on with your life.
Interesting viewpoint in OP, although Autarch damages his arguments somewhat by dismissing and ridiculing the points made by other posters.
The Baldur's Gate series is certainly a masterpiece, but to say that an Icewind Dale or Blizzard's game storylines are better and more original than a ME or DA:O, well, gonna disagree there. I loved the stories that a Starcraft, Brood War and Warcraft III provded, but they were just as cliche space opera and fantasy as most others I've seen in games.
Fact is, when looking at 19 out of 20 bestselling or popular movies, or books, or games, and you will notice that there's little true originality and that hasn't been done or told elsewhere many times. You'll see very few Sixth Sense or Memento regarding story or plot developments and far more Avatar and Twilight. Same with scifi and fantasy literature. If it comes to games, I don't see that much originality in story and plotlines, even more, many game companies seem to just have attached those as an afterthought. But the Silent Hill and Metal Gear Solid series did have storylines that aren't exactly the norm, which sure helped make them interesting.
But next to originality it's the delivery of the story and plots that count and regarding that Bioware is one of the best, and still is.
Of course, I do hope that their continuing success doesn't make them complacent or fearful to innovate as some other large companies have become.
DAO good story? Original? Deep story?
Its a lord of the rings story and not even done very well lol, and its also not deep, so bioware fails in my view on this game plus fact it was so damn easy even nightmare was a walk in the park with your eyes closed.
Irritating characters boring areas uninspired mindless mobs DAO was terible badly made game but so hyped mass and all blind fans buy it its bioware they can't make bad games, well they did and its called DAO, not to mention awakning man that was even worse rushed expansion just to get more cash then acctually make it worth buying.
But i as customer have luckely the most power by not buying bioware game unless im realy sure is high standard again from years ago.
That dont mean others have same experience then me, if most like this game well good for them, have fun:)
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Comments
I did argue a point quite clearly in my previous post: It was that the whole fantasy genre owes deeply to classic epic storytelling and that Bioware is just sticking to the conventions and motifs outlined there, and that this in no way amounts to being "talentless hacks" or else you could call pretty much any fantasy writer a talentless hack. I can show you similarities in any fantasy writer's work to other famous fantasy writers' works. This is just how this genre works. (To Drakynn: That was exactly the point I've made in my previous post. It's not that Bioware is stealing from just these two particular works of fiction, it's that it's natural it'll have many similarities with many other works, and I'm giving two more examples in addition to the OP's one.)
The post above does not argue a new point, it's just putting forward some similarities in the works you claimed had none. I think some of them are better and more numerous than the similarities you put forward. You should have rebutted those and showed much more potent analogies if you want to insist on your original point that *Bioware stole from one particular series* rather than feed on the whole tradition. Because you haven't yet made a good work of it. Remember, you're the one arguing the original point here! I was not even the one claiming Bioware "stole" from others to begin with, it was you; so the burden of proof lies on your shoulders.
As for the themes, I could defend how those indeed suggest themselves pretty naturally in those books, but that'd be further derailing the thread so I'm going to refrain from that. I'm confident I'm not typing drivel, though I can see how it may seem so to you, I perfectly know what I'm saying. The works of "anthropology" might come across as heavy-handed or snobbish but they indeed serve as guidelines for many many fantasy writers.
So in short: It is you with the original argument, so I say go ahead and make a good work of it at least.
EDIT: Oh, and Harkkum: You really did go on a tangent with my stuff there. If you want to discuss my knowledge of the works I mentioned, I can do that, believe me I've read them several times. So if you really do want that, just PM me so that we won't further bore people to their death. Though the point remains that I'm not making a point about humanity itself but the fantasy genre, in which Bioware's many stories reside. So it indeed is related to the subject, I am careful to not totally derail the topic, and I'm not trying make myself look like anything. I am totally faithful to the topic at hand. The authors I mentioned may be passe in terms of academic thinking (which I'd challenge, but I digress), but they have made their mark on the genre and explain why this particular form of fiction works as it does. The fantasy writers consciously as well as unconsciously employ these motifs now. And I concede the "spawns" - it's meant to be a humorous jab anyway! - but overall my similarities make at least as much sense as those of the OP, and that was the point.
Well sure it won't get featured on that list, because it does what other games did in the past. That doesn't mean it's a bad game by any means. It's exuded a level of polish and depth that many RPGS that are NOT created by bioware rarely reach. This is what it will be remembered for. Also, it's already made it to one of the best games of 2009. It was in the top 5 spot on many lists, actually. You don't need to make the best game ever list to be good, though. I didn't see Ultima online on any of those best games ever lists, but I know a lot of people just on this site that would swear up and down that they could play that for the rest of their life (the old one of course).
OP needs to write a book so I can see how many clichés I can find.
Yeah, yeah, I know OP, I'll GTFO of your thread.
they must be a bunch of talentless hacks with all the money they are raking in and how all of their games get great reviews from hundreds of different game reviewers. Yes they must be. millions of ppl buying their games and loving them cant possibly mean anything except that they are horrible at making games. I imagine the people at bioware are crying themselves to sleep every night and wiping those tears away with hundred dollar bills. There is no chance the old republic is gonna be any good, I mean its only based on star wars, whats that? Bioware is probably gonna get closed down with this type of performance. Surely this must be the case. That star wars game they are making probably wont even be released.
seriously this thread is retarded. Its like trying to argue Tom brady not being a good qb ( and I hate him ). his resume speaks for itself just like biowares. every game they make has turned to gold and it doesnt matter if a small group of ppl hate their games cause the majority loves em. get over it and move on with your life
But at the end of the day they sell millions because they do the games very well. I never heard of Mass Effect but i stumbled upon it and i ended up loving it.
My reason, the story is intriguing and keeps you griped to the end. The touch of the good, bad persona is replayable in it self to get the different responses.
Look at World of Warcraft, they took every bit of the previous MMO genres before it, and made the probably the most influential game from the genre. So copying and reusing is not a bad thing, it can be a improve.
I'm glad you think its funny, because you still have to deal with it. The "best games ever" Hey the original Mario was one of the best games ever. Zelda Ocarina of Time is purportedly the best game of all time. Hey these games are great, but that doesn't refute the greatness of the most current BioWare titles. Your opinionated listing of what is the best and the actual unopinionated of what is true are two very different things son. Bioware created the infinity engine, they licensed it to Black Isle, but of course you already knew that as you get all of your information on wikipedia.
In the end, you've got 8 to 14 year old games that you can continue to play, and I'll have a brand new "cliche" story from a high quality, experienced studio with "hack" writers that win awards from places like G4, IGN, and many others like the New York Times (for best story mind you). So who's the real loser here? Not me.
Don't worry... I'll be right there playing it with you!
Played: DAoC 6 years, WoW 2 years, Ultima/EQ 1+ years, AoC/Aion/Rift/SWTOR a few months
Tried: Warhammer, EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and many, many others...
Currently Playing: DAOC
To my recollection... Mass Effect was the first Bioware game ive played. I really liked it, and decided to play the others that released after the first Mass Effect. Ive happily enjoyed mass effect 2 and Dragon age.
I enjoyed them really for one play through, as anytime I tried a second playthrough, I just got bored knowing whats going to happen.
I really appreciate the voice acting they have in their games, and while the stories in bioware games may seem cliche, I appreciate and enjoy them nonetheless.
I will be looking forward to TOR, having just come from STO and wishing I hadnt forked up the cash for the game. Not because it has the potential to be a huge success, and it may have the risk of divebombing. Im looking forward to it because its made by bioware, and my expierence with this developer has been a good one. If TOR tanks... oh well.. .there are other games out there. If TOR is a success... then awesome.
lol very well said if you people don't like Bioware why do you play their games?
Bioware is far from dissappointing... usually.
Dragon Age sure was a let down. What a pile of filth. It's basically the crappy parts of NWN crossed with WoW w/o the MMO part. It probably wouldn't have been so bad if the story wasn't so generic, the cut scenes didn't look like abunch of medival robots (I thought we were passed that years ago? seriously wtf) and the dialog made have a bit of sense. I could have stomached more of the terrible combat if those parts were good at least.
I think I just need to stop listening to hype given to me by mindless zombies, that's my problem.
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If Bioware are just doing theire ordinary thing but in an MMO this time, may i ask why they are doing that if the only people they are aming at are the current fanbase?
Couse i see alot of people in this thread saying: "You knows what kind of games Bioware does, so don`t play this one if you dont like them"
So, why aren`t they just doing an singleplayer game then? Thats right, couse they are not just aiming for you selfish guys!
They are aiming at an bigger audience this time, and therefore people that aren`t usually liking Bioware games are asking the question: What are they doing, why does this game seems to be an instanced singleplayer game with Multiplayer options, why aren`t they being cleare about how the world will be.
There's only so many stories one can tell. Every type of story has been done before. Essentially you grab a story structure and put a fresh new coat of paint and new characters on it and Bioware succeeds at that.
Interesting viewpoint in OP, although Autarch damages his arguments somewhat by dismissing and ridiculing the points made by other posters.
The Baldur's Gate series is certainly a masterpiece, but to say that an Icewind Dale or Blizzard's game storylines are better and more original than a ME or DA:O, well, gonna disagree there. I loved the stories that a Starcraft, Brood War and Warcraft III provded, but they were just as cliche space opera and fantasy as most others I've seen in games.
Fact is, when looking at 19 out of 20 bestselling or popular movies, or books, or games, and you will notice that there's little true originality and that hasn't been done or told elsewhere many times. You'll see very few Sixth Sense or Memento regarding story or plot developments and far more Avatar and Twilight. Same with scifi and fantasy literature. If it comes to games, I don't see that much originality in story and plotlines, even more, many game companies seem to just have attached those as an afterthought. But the Silent Hill and Metal Gear Solid series did have storylines that aren't exactly the norm, which sure helped make them interesting.
But next to originality it's the delivery of the story and plots that count and regarding that Bioware is one of the best, and still is.
Of course, I do hope that their continuing success doesn't make them complacent or fearful to innovate as some other large companies have become.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
That's because Drew Karpyshyn didn't write it.
For those who don't know, Drew was the Lead writer for KOTOR, Mass Effect, and of course some REALLY good books (Including the Darth Bane trilogy).
http://www.drewkarpyshyn.com/games.htm
I believe MW2 got great reviews and sold a ton. That game is FAR from good. Sales and good reviews goes not make a game great.
Posted by mcburly on 4/07/10 at 3:43:55 PM
they must be a bunch of talentless hacks with all the money they are raking in and how all of their games get great reviews from hundreds of different game reviewers. Yes they must be. millions of ppl buying their games and loving them cant possibly mean anything except that they are horrible at making games. I imagine the people at bioware are crying themselves to sleep every night and wiping those tears away with hundred dollar bills. There is no chance the old republic is gonna be any good, I mean its only based on star wars, whats that? Bioware is probably gonna get closed down with this type of performance. Surely this must be the case. That star wars game they are making probably wont even be released.
Seriously this thread is retarded. Its like trying to argue Tom brady not being a good qb ( and I hate him ). his resume speaks for itself just like biowares. every game they make has turned to gold and it doesnt matter if a small group of ppl hate their games cause the majority loves em. Get over it and move on with your life.
This ^^..........
HEAVEN OR HELL
Duel 1
Lets ROCK!
DAO good story? Original? Deep story?
Its a lord of the rings story and not even done very well lol, and its also not deep, so bioware fails in my view on this game plus fact it was so damn easy even nightmare was a walk in the park with your eyes closed.
Irritating characters boring areas uninspired mindless mobs DAO was terible badly made game but so hyped mass and all blind fans buy it its bioware they can't make bad games, well they did and its called DAO, not to mention awakning man that was even worse rushed expansion just to get more cash then acctually make it worth buying.
But i as customer have luckely the most power by not buying bioware game unless im realy sure is high standard again from years ago.
That dont mean others have same experience then me, if most like this game well good for them, have fun:)
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Those opinions on The Witcher and bioware..
They deserve no credit for it's storyline. The storyline is based off the original nwn mod which was by far the only reason I kept NwN after 2007.