criticizing is fine. You were just trolling. As stated, the video looks sped up, hence why it looks clunky, secondly, animations and graphics are the easiest to clean up after gameplay developement is finished. No point polishing it to final state (if the reason is development) until the game gets much closer to launch. We are still in the pre-testing stage. There's still alot to do. I thought, keeping in my the developemental stage of the game, that it looked very very good...and i will reiterate, i have not seen such complex animations from any other mmorpg. Alot of BH and Jedi animations left me shocked (the one for the jedi which did it for me was when he deflected blaster bolts behind him by putting the saber in back of himself)
Does speeding up make the character skip entire frames or parts of the animation? No.. it'll just make the animations faster. If they are smooth, they will be smooth when sped up as well.
Alpha isn't an excuse for anything. Hopefully they can get their act together.
The animations can be complex, like your example, but implementation right now is not well done.
And yes, alpha this alpha that.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
No super-ADD flips/jumps, explosions and special effects that blind you, or ballerina Asian combat here. If you're looking for that, Aion is that way --->.
Game is not in beta yet, so I don't see why they'd focus on polishing animations/effects now. This is the bare-bones, skeletal minimum.
Actually it looked exactly like that, except it wasn't beautiful to look at.
For an Alpha it isn't looking too good. I'm sure it'll get better, but we won't be seeing any miracles.
So you're saying that this game has Asian (more specifically, anime) combat? Give me a break. It's seeping with Western influence. I submit that Asian games have better animations, and I like that, but far too many go over-the-top. That's why I call it ballerina combat. It's cool for TV shows or movies, but not in MMOs.
I guess BioWare is too busy implementing other core game mechanics in an Alpha stage. Silly them, they should be busy polishing animations/effects now so that, when they release videos they have no obligation to release, Hyanmen will be slightly more satisfied.
So you're saying that this game has Asian (more specifically, anime) combat? Give me a break. It's seeping with Western influence. I submit that Asian games have better animations, and I like that, but far too many go over-the-top. That's why I call it ballerina combat. It's cool for TV shows or movies, but not in MMOs.
I guess BioWare is too busy implementing other core game mechanics in an Alpha stage. Silly them, they should be busy polishing animations/effects now so that, when they release videos they have no obligation to release, Hyanmen will be slightly more satisfied.
super-ADD flips/jumps, explosions and special effects
The vid was full of them. Do you not agree?
Don't get all butthurt because of me though. I'm sorry for not agreeing with the masses. I must be a primadonna.
Core game mechanics should be done by now, aside from fine tuning during the beta.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
The sabers do look bland, but I think the rest of the lightsaber fights are shaping up nicely. I also like how the non-force classes are powerful and they look fun to play.
One thing that bothers me though. The combat looks stilted at times. Almost turn-based. At certain points in the video it appears that all of the enemies on both side are stationary, before one side moves again. Almost like they are all waiting on cooldowns? The Jedi-Sith fights in particular are what I noticed. A couple of the fights looked like both sides just stood "toe to toe" and took turns whacking each other with the saber. I hope I am imagining things.
As someone who is anxiously waiting for both FFXIV and SWTOR, I can say I was not too impressed with the combat animations. Having played WoW for 4 years, and effectively at the point where i have ZERO plans on returning, SWTOR "felt" too much like WoW's combat.
With that said, even if the animations arn't great (probably because we've seen them before in KOTOR), if the game is fun to play, i'm goingto play it. Case in point, LOTRO has horrible animatin, admittedly SWTOR looks better than LOTRO, but the game is amazingly fun and deep.
I have yet to play a Bioware game that isn't fun. Dragon's Age is in the same boat, the character animations are horrible but the game is solid and very fun. If the world is immersive, the stories are deep, and there is a depth to the combat, I won't care if the animations arn't spectacular.
But, if I were to choose between SWTOR and FFXIV at this point,....i'll have to go with Alpha FFXIV over Alpha SWTOR. Good thing is, the games seem so different that you can play each and not feel that they are necessarily in competition with each other.
As stated previously, my biggest concern is that SWTOR looks and feels too much like WoW. The reason it does is because they want it to run on 7 year old computers like WoW does. They want as many subs as possible and that's not possible with a majority of people not having high end machines. FFXIV, on the other hand, will require a mid to high end computer.
I have yet to play a Bioware game that isn't fun. Dragon's Age is in the same boat, the character animations are horrible but the game is solid and very fun. If the world is immersive, the stories are deep, and there is a depth to the combat, I won't care if the animations arn't spectacular.
That's true too. While it's pretty much a make or break deal for me, gameplay is what matters the most. I'm only commenting this video though, not the whole game.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
For graphics with that design in mind they look nice but also they are Alpha stage graphics, Biowares Alpha stage graphic always lack the polish they add at the last stage.
I am more concerned about the light saber sounds, was it just me or did the light saber make a *thunk* noise... no I demand Swhooshes!
Hmm, I've never thought of that, but it does look like it, yes.
I think they give some more 'oomph' to the attacks though, along with the screen shaking a bit. That you're actually doing some serious damage there.
That reminds me of console RPGs in general - where your character performs an elaborate dance with flares and sparkles and smoke - only to see a "2" pop up above the target for damage. That really annoyed me.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
And this is the average bait, for those that can't tell.
I've never seen a game with better animations actually. What special effects look "dull"? And EQ1 graphics? Come on now.... I think its time to put the fishing pole away, that bait doesn't even remotely hold ground.... you aren't going to catch anything with that.
Hey I'd really like to see what you're seeing.
The animations skip entire frames, and the way the characters handle their weapons and abilities is not realistic at all. There's no weight, and every limb moves instantly. Sometimes the animation skips whole parts of the movement altogether and suddenly your character has turned 180 degrees just like that.
It's not fluid at all. And that's what annoys me here.
The special effects have no imagination, they are so basic it hurts to look at... looks like children's toys rather than weapons.
EQ1 graphics was an exaggeration, I apologize for that. Let's just say they're "not on an acceptable level".
But hey, criticizing means I'm a troll.
The game is made by Bioware.. so any act of criticism must be considered trolling attempt.
Gotta remember that in the future.
It was the exaggerations that got me. I can understand if you didn't like the animations, they weren't fluid in every instance of combat, I give you that, but the actual animations themselves are much more involved and varied just in these short videos. The in game footage looks different to me then this though I suppose its to be expected when they are showcasing combat in many quick little clips. Hopefully polish will slow down the animations just a bit so that you can enjoy them, and make them more fluid in the process.
As for graphics overall, I don't see any major problem with them at this time, though I'd like to see it as a finished product. Some of the character models look kind of strange, like they are trying to mix a cartoon style and a realistic style together so that its not quite SWG but its also not Clone Wars. I don't really have a problem with the troopers and bounty hunters as much as the less armored characters, but it really won't kill my decision to go smuggler.
I took the combat in this video more topical then in direct correlation to what I expect to see on launch. I don't think all of your points are invalid, just that they were blown out of proportion to an unbelievable degree.
I follow this game since it was anounced and I have a couple of things to say:
1 - The videos they show us are never, i repeat never the ACTUAL game footage. If you take a closer look at past videos you will see that!
2 - Regarding the combat video, there are mix of older and newer (not ACTUAL) footage of the game, if you look carefully you will notice that some parts of the video are much more polished than others.
3 - The combat animations are the best i ever seen in a MMO. I can't understand how are people saying the animations are the worst they have seen. I checked the FFX video and i didn't see anything better than the ones of SWTOR.
4 - Combat is static? check out the moving sith inquisitor walking around attacking a grounded jedi with force lightning. Check the two jedis walking and deflecting bolts and check the bounty hunter against the jedi in some kind of tombs. The best way of showing habilities, powers, is not walking around it's staying STILL, remember this is only a VIDEO showing that and also that they don't want to show alot of the world around... they are very carefull to not show us alot of the surroundings of the planets or buildings. That's why they are static most of the time!
5 - The game is not fluid? well have any of you think that because they are recording from the game the video can loss some of it?! If you guys see the 20 min developer walkthrough it seems the same, but if you check some recordings from some youtube users at PAX 2009 you will see that the game on the screen is VERY fluid. And you will see that in E3 this year for sure.
6 - About the graphics, alot of people is complaining about them but you forgot this is an ALPHA version of the game. I've seen someone in this forum saying "this is an 2011 game not an 2005" and "i know it's alpha but i've seen better alphas"... do you people remember WoW's alpha version? go check it in youtube, it's the UGLYEST thing ive seen in an mmo! Swtor will look very good at release im pretty sure of that, the graphics will be polished to maximum! The problem is that people are confusing graphics and ARTWORK.
If anyone can make the next big thing in th AAA MMO'S that company is BIOWARE!
why is it so difficult for these people to get them right i wonder?
really? come on get over it, I think they look fine, ad as for the rest, looks fantastic. It seems they REALLY care about the player acctualy haveing FUN, which I like, this is why I play games afterall.....PS the sticky grenade looks hilarious "GET IT OFF MEEE!!!" lol
"Well let me just quote the late-great Colonel Sanders, who said…’I’m too drunk to taste this chicken." - Ricky Bobby
I really don't see what is so awesome about that vid. Not one bit...
1- Graphics are barely above WoW, if at all. (this game is coming out in 2000 f**kin' 11 !! Not 2005)
2- The combat animations suck big time imho.
3- It feels static like hell
4- Comments from the devs reenforced my felling that these guys have no idea what makes a good MMO. Again, thats my opinion.
Where is that Bioware cool aid! I want some of this suff.
I have a feeling that if drink enough of it I'll gain some super sensory power. Might be able to see what isn't there too then?!
thanks for your opinon, but its smells of rotten garbage and moldy cheese, please return to sender.
As for all you graphics whores out there, this games art style is not DESIGNED to be photorealistic, christ, if you dont like the style fine. but FOR the style the graphics are great.
"Well let me just quote the late-great Colonel Sanders, who said…’I’m too drunk to taste this chicken." - Ricky Bobby
My own opinion regarding graphics is that WoW-quality is 'good enough'. I don't want gameplay or performance to be sacrificed for prettier pictures.
I have yet to see much in the SWTOR videos that leads me to believe gameplay will be anything better than WoW, though.
I hope for the sake of us all, that the gameplay will be advanced from WoW, but I'm not seeing it.
No, I don't consider cutscenes and voice acting to be gameplay.
the combat looks WAY more interesting than wow...I can still remember my hunter shot rotations....*shudder* not to mention the cover system...come on do you know anything about this game??
"Well let me just quote the late-great Colonel Sanders, who said…’I’m too drunk to taste this chicken." - Ricky Bobby
Comments
Hyanman, i would like to know..which mmorpg do you think has better animations...cause i am just trying to understand what you are comparing it too.
Does speeding up make the character skip entire frames or parts of the animation? No.. it'll just make the animations faster. If they are smooth, they will be smooth when sped up as well.
Alpha isn't an excuse for anything. Hopefully they can get their act together.
The animations can be complex, like your example, but implementation right now is not well done.
And yes, alpha this alpha that.
So you're saying that this game has Asian (more specifically, anime) combat? Give me a break. It's seeping with Western influence. I submit that Asian games have better animations, and I like that, but far too many go over-the-top. That's why I call it ballerina combat. It's cool for TV shows or movies, but not in MMOs.
I guess BioWare is too busy implementing other core game mechanics in an Alpha stage. Silly them, they should be busy polishing animations/effects now so that, when they release videos they have no obligation to release, Hyanmen will be slightly more satisfied.
I'll give you an example, then. Don't mind the sound.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MiIiOd1jJ4&feature=related
This is the quality I would expect to have in MMO's of the current decade.
Weapons have weight on them. Limbs just don't move instantly (most of the time). Effects actually are something other than sparks and polygon circles.
super-ADD flips/jumps, explosions and special effects
The vid was full of them. Do you not agree?
Don't get all butthurt because of me though. I'm sorry for not agreeing with the masses. I must be a primadonna.
Core game mechanics should be done by now, aside from fine tuning during the beta.
I like the character animations, but those spell effects don't impress me at all.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Graphics or design wise?
The sabers do look bland, but I think the rest of the lightsaber fights are shaping up nicely. I also like how the non-force classes are powerful and they look fun to play.
One thing that bothers me though. The combat looks stilted at times. Almost turn-based. At certain points in the video it appears that all of the enemies on both side are stationary, before one side moves again. Almost like they are all waiting on cooldowns? The Jedi-Sith fights in particular are what I noticed. A couple of the fights looked like both sides just stood "toe to toe" and took turns whacking each other with the saber. I hope I am imagining things.
Some of both. The effects don't stick to the targets. They might as well not even be there. Perhaps it's due to the console design?
Although WoW's character graphics are primitive, the spell effects are generally quite well done.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Hmm, I've never thought of that, but it does look like it, yes.
I think they give some more 'oomph' to the attacks though, along with the screen shaking a bit. That you're actually doing some serious damage there.
But yeah, not to go offtopic... that's what I consider the standard, and in my eyes TOR goes way below that standard.
It's just my opinion though, no need to attack me for telling it.
As someone who is anxiously waiting for both FFXIV and SWTOR, I can say I was not too impressed with the combat animations. Having played WoW for 4 years, and effectively at the point where i have ZERO plans on returning, SWTOR "felt" too much like WoW's combat.
With that said, even if the animations arn't great (probably because we've seen them before in KOTOR), if the game is fun to play, i'm goingto play it. Case in point, LOTRO has horrible animatin, admittedly SWTOR looks better than LOTRO, but the game is amazingly fun and deep.
I have yet to play a Bioware game that isn't fun. Dragon's Age is in the same boat, the character animations are horrible but the game is solid and very fun. If the world is immersive, the stories are deep, and there is a depth to the combat, I won't care if the animations arn't spectacular.
But, if I were to choose between SWTOR and FFXIV at this point,....i'll have to go with Alpha FFXIV over Alpha SWTOR. Good thing is, the games seem so different that you can play each and not feel that they are necessarily in competition with each other.
As stated previously, my biggest concern is that SWTOR looks and feels too much like WoW. The reason it does is because they want it to run on 7 year old computers like WoW does. They want as many subs as possible and that's not possible with a majority of people not having high end machines. FFXIV, on the other hand, will require a mid to high end computer.
That's true too. While it's pretty much a make or break deal for me, gameplay is what matters the most. I'm only commenting this video though, not the whole game.
ToRs graphics are designed to run on an old PC.
For graphics with that design in mind they look nice but also they are Alpha stage graphics, Biowares Alpha stage graphic always lack the polish they add at the last stage.
I am more concerned about the light saber sounds, was it just me or did the light saber make a *thunk* noise... no I demand Swhooshes!
My own opinion regarding graphics is that WoW-quality is 'good enough'. I don't want gameplay or performance to be sacrificed for prettier pictures.
I have yet to see much in the SWTOR videos that leads me to believe gameplay will be anything better than WoW, though.
I hope for the sake of us all, that the gameplay will be advanced from WoW, but I'm not seeing it.
No, I don't consider cutscenes and voice acting to be gameplay.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I really don't see what is so awesome about that vid. Not one bit...
1- Graphics are barely above WoW, if at all. (this game is coming out in 2000 f**kin' 11 !! Not 2005)
2- The combat animations suck big time imho.
3- It feels static like hell
4- Comments from the devs reenforced my felling that these guys have no idea what makes a good MMO. Again, thats my opinion.
Where is that Bioware cool aid! I want some of this suff.
I have a feeling that if drink enough of it I'll gain some super sensory power. Might be able to see what isn't there too then?!
It was the exaggerations that got me. I can understand if you didn't like the animations, they weren't fluid in every instance of combat, I give you that, but the actual animations themselves are much more involved and varied just in these short videos. The in game footage looks different to me then this though I suppose its to be expected when they are showcasing combat in many quick little clips. Hopefully polish will slow down the animations just a bit so that you can enjoy them, and make them more fluid in the process.
As for graphics overall, I don't see any major problem with them at this time, though I'd like to see it as a finished product. Some of the character models look kind of strange, like they are trying to mix a cartoon style and a realistic style together so that its not quite SWG but its also not Clone Wars. I don't really have a problem with the troopers and bounty hunters as much as the less armored characters, but it really won't kill my decision to go smuggler.
I took the combat in this video more topical then in direct correlation to what I expect to see on launch. I don't think all of your points are invalid, just that they were blown out of proportion to an unbelievable degree.
I follow this game since it was anounced and I have a couple of things to say:
1 - The videos they show us are never, i repeat never the ACTUAL game footage. If you take a closer look at past videos you will see that!
2 - Regarding the combat video, there are mix of older and newer (not ACTUAL) footage of the game, if you look carefully you will notice that some parts of the video are much more polished than others.
3 - The combat animations are the best i ever seen in a MMO. I can't understand how are people saying the animations are the worst they have seen. I checked the FFX video and i didn't see anything better than the ones of SWTOR.
4 - Combat is static? check out the moving sith inquisitor walking around attacking a grounded jedi with force lightning. Check the two jedis walking and deflecting bolts and check the bounty hunter against the jedi in some kind of tombs. The best way of showing habilities, powers, is not walking around it's staying STILL, remember this is only a VIDEO showing that and also that they don't want to show alot of the world around... they are very carefull to not show us alot of the surroundings of the planets or buildings. That's why they are static most of the time!
5 - The game is not fluid? well have any of you think that because they are recording from the game the video can loss some of it?! If you guys see the 20 min developer walkthrough it seems the same, but if you check some recordings from some youtube users at PAX 2009 you will see that the game on the screen is VERY fluid. And you will see that in E3 this year for sure.
6 - About the graphics, alot of people is complaining about them but you forgot this is an ALPHA version of the game. I've seen someone in this forum saying "this is an 2011 game not an 2005" and "i know it's alpha but i've seen better alphas"... do you people remember WoW's alpha version? go check it in youtube, it's the UGLYEST thing ive seen in an mmo! Swtor will look very good at release im pretty sure of that, the graphics will be polished to maximum! The problem is that people are confusing graphics and ARTWORK.
If anyone can make the next big thing in th AAA MMO'S that company is BIOWARE!
The game is shaping up nicely and I'm sure at E3 it will look even better. I'm not worried, Bioware knows what they are doing.
another short video
showing some ambients.
Looks sweet :-)
really? come on get over it, I think they look fine, ad as for the rest, looks fantastic. It seems they REALLY care about the player acctualy haveing FUN, which I like, this is why I play games afterall.....PS the sticky grenade looks hilarious "GET IT OFF MEEE!!!" lol
thanks for your opinon, but its smells of rotten garbage and moldy cheese, please return to sender.
As for all you graphics whores out there, this games art style is not DESIGNED to be photorealistic, christ, if you dont like the style fine. but FOR the style the graphics are great.
I think the graphics and combat looked about average but I am more interested in gameplay,
the combat looks WAY more interesting than wow...I can still remember my hunter shot rotations....*shudder* not to mention the cover system...come on do you know anything about this game??