If only EA could have made Warhammer from the beginning, what a game it would have been.
If EA would have made it from the beginning it probably would have failed faster. They are very notorious for ruining games. Mythic is a sub company of EA but atleast mythic has experience in making MMOs unlike EA. only thing they have made so far is stupid sports online games and a actually quite good racing mmo and "battlefield heroes"
I liked Warhammer. amazing game but it's dying slowly and i can't stay with something where there is no one on.
EA has BILLIONS of pieces of green paper that completely annihilate your feeble attempt at blemishing their reputation. BILLIONS scream we are game pros and can never be disputed by the few disgruntled.
Theres a huge difference between making billions off of sports and a few other types of games (when they have exclusive rights to half of those things and nobody else is even allowed to make them) and actually making and maintaining a very succesful MMORPG. Its like taking a company that makes motorized scooters, and saying "well they make awesome scooters, so surely they can make awesome cars too". 2 completely different animals that require much more time, work, knowledge, and money.
EA is a great company, hence BILLIONS. Terrible companies like Mythic never get to say the word BILLIONS and get eaten by great companies like EA. EA makes quality products which equal BILLIONS. If you are working at a company that makes BILLIONS they are great. It is impossible in business to generate BILLIONS and be terrible at whatever it is you do. Please try and refrain from the EA bashing and take the miliions they lost trusting a terrible company into account so that a player like yourself was afforded the opportunity to complain.
I don't see why people blame EA all the time. especially when bringing there sports titles into question, and the sims expansion packs? the sports titles. such as fifa for example are currently the best on the market by a long stretch and the sims expansions, especially for 2 and 3 have been good and full of stuff? and yet EA fail? i wish i could fail like EA have thats for sure, im sorry, it was mythic who made a broken game not ea, and mythic havent fixed it so why you all think it was EA's fault, yes it may have been released early but time has shown that mythic didnt know how to fix the fundamental problems in the first place. Not a WAR hater, i quite liked the game.
People blame EA because they have a long history of buying out successful gaming companies and then releasing badly flawed games. This is attributed to the fact that these titles are often rushed to release more quickly than they would have been if they were not under EA's control.
You are right that EA does do some games very well, but they are not often successful when they buy out other gaming companies... ESPECIALLY when it comes to MMOs. I'm just hoping they keep their hands of TOR and let Bioware do the work.
If only EA could have made Warhammer from the beginning, what a game it would have been.
If EA would have made it from the beginning it probably would have failed faster. They are very notorious for ruining games. Mythic is a sub company of EA but atleast mythic has experience in making MMOs unlike EA. only thing they have made so far is stupid sports online games and a actually quite good racing mmo and "battlefield heroes"
I liked Warhammer. amazing game but it's dying slowly and i can't stay with something where there is no one on.
EA has BILLIONS of pieces of green paper that completely annihilate your feeble attempt at blemishing their reputation. BILLIONS scream we are game pros and can never be disputed by the few disgruntled.
Theres a huge difference between making billions off of sports and a few other types of games (when they have exclusive rights to half of those things and nobody else is even allowed to make them) and actually making and maintaining a very succesful MMORPG. Its like taking a company that makes motorized scooters, and saying "well they make awesome scooters, so surely they can make awesome cars too". 2 completely different animals that require much more time, work, knowledge, and money.
EA is a great company, hence BILLIONS. Terrible companies like Mythic never get to say the word BILLIONS and get eaten by great companies like EA. EA makes quality products which equal BILLIONS. If you are working at a company that makes BILLIONS they are great. It is impossible in business to generate BILLIONS and be terrible at whatever it is you do. Please try and refrain from the EA bashing and take the miliions they lost trusting a terrible company into account so that a player like yourself was afforded the opportunity to complain.
Last time i checked EA has been in debt for the past couple of years, each year being 300mil+.
EA, once upon a time was a great publisher. Without them companies like Origin, Westwood Studios, and Interplay would never have come to the pinnacle of game development 20 some odd years ago. However, they got too big for their own good and started swallowing the companies that were making them their money. With that swallowing they disallowed the artists the ability to create the games that they could have. Supposedly EA is striving to become the Electronic Artists that they used to be.
Warhammer's faults are not because of EA but because of Mythic's missteps and overreaching. DAOC, while many people loved the game, was never a great success compared to EQ and UO. And while Mythic endeavored to try some new things, PQ's for one, they did not do enough to differentiate themselves from the 800lb gorilla. It, of course, doesn't help that the IP that Mythic went with was also the spiritual father to that 800lb gorilla. I still think had they stuck with Imperium and gone the way they were things would be significantly different with Mythic as we sit right now.
Here's the big problem: Paul claimed that Warhammer was going to be the Led Zeppelin to Blizzard's Beatles. Unfortunately Warhammer is more akin to Damn Yankees or some other fly by night 80's band rather than anything close to Led Zeppelin. They should have struck out to make their own game and not worried about WoW or trying so hard to capture the WOW crowd. If people want to play wow, well... they will play wow.
Doesnt the asian market use some kind of F'd up subscription plan? Where the players dont spend $15 a month to play, but pay based on a flat rate plus time spent in game?
My understanding is that per person the asian MMO market generates less revenue, but has the potential to have more players(subscribers) thus making it more lucrative.
And with more laws being passed in China and Korea restricting play time, that maybe keeping a regional server up and running becomes a drain on Mythic/EA resources.
So guys, this maybe a purely economic decision. And be better for the EU/NA player in the short and long run.
Not trying to spin it so much of a positive, but I think its more than "Oh shit the end is nigh!" I personaly think its a good thing. Never once have I seen Mythic state that the asian market has generated a whole lot of subscribers/income/players.
And truth to tell I was pissed when Mythic allocated resources to regionalize WAR for the asian market. In my opnion the comapny should have been focusing on its EU/NA players who were leaving because we were (I sure as hell was) tired of waiting on them to start balancing classes and addressing game play issues.
If that market is a drain on resources...f***'em, I say.
"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."
If only EA could have made Warhammer from the beginning, what a game it would have been.
If EA would have made it from the beginning it probably would have failed faster. They are very notorious for ruining games. Mythic is a sub company of EA but atleast mythic has experience in making MMOs unlike EA. only thing they have made so far is stupid sports online games and a actually quite good racing mmo and "battlefield heroes"
I liked Warhammer. amazing game but it's dying slowly and i can't stay with something where there is no one on.
EA has BILLIONS of pieces of green paper that completely annihilate your feeble attempt at blemishing their reputation. BILLIONS scream we are game pros and can never be disputed by the few disgruntled.
Theres a huge difference between making billions off of sports and a few other types of games (when they have exclusive rights to half of those things and nobody else is even allowed to make them) and actually making and maintaining a very succesful MMORPG. Its like taking a company that makes motorized scooters, and saying "well they make awesome scooters, so surely they can make awesome cars too". 2 completely different animals that require much more time, work, knowledge, and money.
EA is a great company, hence BILLIONS. Terrible companies like Mythic never get to say the word BILLIONS and get eaten by great companies like EA. EA makes quality products which equal BILLIONS. If you are working at a company that makes BILLIONS they are great. It is impossible in business to generate BILLIONS and be terrible at whatever it is you do. Please try and refrain from the EA bashing and take the miliions they lost trusting a terrible company into account so that a player like yourself was afforded the opportunity to complain.
I'd like for you to name some of those QUALITY product that EA have made. The Sims was made by Maxis which was bought by EA halfway through development, so that doesn't really count. Their sports games? Can you tell me how games like FIFA have evolved since '99?
BTW releasing the same game with updated graphics isn't what I would call a quality product. And someone trying to blemish EAs reputation? EA probably has the worst reputation of all publishers/game studios out there. And they earned it.
And as for the topic at hand, this wasn't really unexpected.
Wasn't Mythic was working on Warhammer way before EA bought them out?
Even from the start Warhammer looked every bit a WoW clone and once EA got involved and the offical line of "game will be released when its ready" to "we are cutting gameplay elemets out to lanuch now" it was a failure in the making.
Wasn't Mythic was working on Warhammer way before EA bought them out?
Even from the start Warhammer looked every bit a WoW clone and once EA got involved and the offical line of "game will be released when its ready" to "we are cutting gameplay elemets out to lanuch now" it was a failure in the making.
What...did you really just say that...?!?
ZROLF Are you fucking stupid or just pretending to be fucking stupid?
Not that it really matters, because either way you have me convinced with a statement like that.
WAR was never designed to be a WoW clone..not even close. Not from a game play stand point. Not from a graphics stand point. Not from a class design stand point. Not from a UI stand point. Not from a PvE stand point. And sure as hell not from a PvP stand point.
The only thing WoW and WAR really have in common is that its set in a fantasy world of Elves, Orcs, Humans and Dwarfs. Hell, even from and lore and ethics stand point they are different.
One is all about good being good, and bad being just misunderstood bad, what you'd expect a Saturday morning cartoon made for 10 year olds would be.
And the other is about evil being truly evil and good being not so good, more of a dark fantasy setting, you know made for the young adult+ who have already gone thru puberty and can be treated more or less as an adult.
In all honesty, and I am a huge WAR supporter, it really is a WoW clone. I finally realized this last month after over a year of its release. I don't play it anymore because more people play WoW and WAR is exactly like WoW. Scenarios = BG's. ORVR = pvp but in a difference sense. I did really enjoy WAR but I finally realized it was not worth it. It has the same classes of WoW but a lot more poor execution. First time I played Hunter's Vale all I could think of is how poorly it was implemented and how much more linear of an instance it was compared to WoW. I miss my shammy...I do....but yeah....WoW makes more sense, and I don't even play that anymore. Mythic really messed up....big time...
Wasn't Mythic was working on Warhammer way before EA bought them out?
Even from the start Warhammer looked every bit a WoW clone and once EA got involved and the offical line of "game will be released when its ready" to "we are cutting gameplay elemets out to lanuch now" it was a failure in the making.
If memory serves EA was in the process of buying mythic during the first alpha/closed beta sessions. Beta went down and the announcement came and there were several months of handwringing and EA bashing left and right on the old forums. When they brought us back in to continue testing the game was far better off. Now the reason why WAR looks like a WOW clone is because Blizzard endeavored to make a Warhammer game, Game's Workshop said no thanks. Blizzard had a game complete and ready to go so they changed part of the name (Warhammer to Warcraft) through together a bit of new lore and Warcraft: Orcs vs Humans was born.
There was no way that a Warhammer game could not look like wow in some very general ways. Personally, while I haven't played WAR in over a year, I still think it looks far better than WOW. The models of the weapons and the armor are superb and so is the environmental detail. WoW on the otherhand looks like a combination of Shrek and some cheap Anime. Where WoW has WAR beat is in the mechanics of the game. They have been working on the same game for 5 years now so there is a level of polish that WAR is still working towards, now whether or not they ever reach it I cannot say.
Wasn't Mythic was working on Warhammer way before EA bought them out?
Even from the start Warhammer looked every bit a WoW clone and once EA got involved and the offical line of "game will be released when its ready" to "we are cutting gameplay elemets out to lanuch now" it was a failure in the making.
If memory serves EA was in the process of buying mythic during the first alpha/closed beta sessions. Beta went down and the announcement came and there were several months of handwringing and EA bashing left and right on the old forums. When they brought us back in to continue testing the game was far better off. Now the reason why WAR looks like a WOW clone is because Blizzard endeavored to make a Warhammer game, Game's Workshop said no thanks. Blizzard had a game complete and ready to go so they changed part of the name (Warhammer to Warcraft) through together a bit of new lore and Warcraft: Orcs vs Humans was born.
There was no way that a Warhammer game could not look like wow in some very general ways. Personally, while I haven't played WAR in over a year, I still think it looks far better than WOW. The models of the weapons and the armor are superb and so is the environmental detail. WoW on the otherhand looks like a combination of Shrek and some cheap Anime. Where WoW has WAR beat is in the mechanics of the game. They have been working on the same game for 5 years now so there is a level of polish that WAR is still working towards, now whether or not they ever reach it I cannot say.
There is no reason whatsoever that a MMO of the Tabletop Warhammer should play very much like the MMO of the mostly RTS Warcraft. Graphics sure, but gameplay could have been so vastly different. I don't think most people are basing their 'clone' remarks on the graphics.
im happy for one reason!some like ea and other are finally beginning to get the gamer message:
GO GLOBAL OR GO HOME!
the day when you could have 100000 version of the game sold to all diff publisher are over
they want it global,silkroad is proof dragon oath is proof guild wars.guild wars was probably the one that showed the potetnial fun there had to have in this model but aneranet showed us so much fun that gamer wont settle for less
check the aika fiasco:game pull in great number its beta they announce localisation(ipblock)game is a gost town now.
if this means ea will put their futur mmo global wise instead of localising ,then im a happy men.
i can understand translating the game but i cant understand having 69 copy of a game all ipblocked from each other
if wow do something!stay very far from it because most of the time you will fail trying to copy it
blizzard goes away untouched with a lot of stuff other mmo would die because of the bad rep.
dont forget that blizzard isnt the boss of their boat anymore .activision pen pusher finally put enough pressure on activision boss that he had to name a boss over blizzard.
blizzard will say it doesnt affect anything!ya right!(activision IS blizzard.so all the good blizzard did in the past is finished blocked by that activision boss or crowd controlled into thinking it was blizzared idea!)
we ll see how ea move!they have a tendancy to get the wrong message.
war isnt a bad game but in a f2p market it has to be f2p model!annoying?yes!even wow model is struggling in asia
and god knows its a big game.but against f2p its not even there
wow will probably be the last p2p morg giant !the futur is to f2p model.dont believe me
check the adds in any gamer site like mmorpg etc who buy publicity!the vast majority are f2p game!
that speak louder then any number convincing wow could try !
Doesnt the asian market use some kind of F'd up subscription plan? Where the players dont spend $15 a month to play, but pay based on a flat rate plus time spent in game?
My understanding is that per person the asian MMO market generates less revenue, but has the potential to have more players(subscribers) thus making it more lucrative.
And with more laws being passed in China and Korea restricting play time, that maybe keeping a regional server up and running becomes a drain on Mythic/EA resources.
So guys, this maybe a purely economic decision. And be better for the EU/NA player in the short and long run.
Not trying to spin it so much of a positive, but I think its more than "Oh shit the end is nigh!" I personaly think its a good thing. Never once have I seen Mythic state that the asian market has generated a whole lot of subscribers/income/players.
And truth to tell I was pissed when Mythic allocated resources to regionalize WAR for the asian market. In my opnion the comapny should have been focusing on its EU/NA players who were leaving because we were (I sure as hell was) tired of waiting on them to start balancing classes and addressing game play issues.
If that market is a drain on resources...f***'em, I say.
In no way was this a good thing for Mythic, the game was run by another company in the same way GOA does for Europe the server and other costs where payed by that company so all thats really happened is Mythic lost what ever the licence fee they where been payed.
EA had little to do with the failure that is Warhammer Online.
EA may have pushed Mythic to release early but the major flaws of Warhammer Online are at its core. No amount of additional development time would have saved it.
To help EA sent dozens of developers to Mythic and gave them tens of millions. What was EA to do?
EA is just the easy scape goat. People would rather blame them than realise that Mythic, the creators of DAoC, are not as good as they remember. Which itself is funny because Mythic did everything they could to ruin DAoC with every expansion.
Wasn't Mythic was working on Warhammer way before EA bought them out?
Even from the start Warhammer looked every bit a WoW clone and once EA got involved and the offical line of "game will be released when its ready" to "we are cutting gameplay elemets out to lanuch now" it was a failure in the making.
If memory serves EA was in the process of buying mythic during the first alpha/closed beta sessions. Beta went down and the announcement came and there were several months of handwringing and EA bashing left and right on the old forums. When they brought us back in to continue testing the game was far better off. Now the reason why WAR looks like a WOW clone is because Blizzard endeavored to make a Warhammer game, Game's Workshop said no thanks. Blizzard had a game complete and ready to go so they changed part of the name (Warhammer to Warcraft) through together a bit of new lore and Warcraft: Orcs vs Humans was born.
There was no way that a Warhammer game could not look like wow in some very general ways. Personally, while I haven't played WAR in over a year, I still think it looks far better than WOW. The models of the weapons and the armor are superb and so is the environmental detail. WoW on the otherhand looks like a combination of Shrek and some cheap Anime. Where WoW has WAR beat is in the mechanics of the game. They have been working on the same game for 5 years now so there is a level of polish that WAR is still working towards, now whether or not they ever reach it I cannot say.
There is no reason whatsoever that a MMO of the Tabletop Warhammer should play very much like the MMO of the mostly RTS Warcraft. Graphics sure, but gameplay could have been so vastly different. I don't think most people are basing their 'clone' remarks on the graphics.
Yes, but that's where most people stop. Aion, WoW, WAR, LoTRO, DDO, STO, L2, EQ2, AOC, SWG(NGE), etc etc etc are all clones and a model that has been somewhat successful. WoW is not an rts, it is a standard MMO with quest hubs and zones to be progressed through. WAR is the exact same thing. The similarity between the two lies in the fact that WOW was fathered by Games Workshop's Warhammer. How could the gameplay have been vastly different? DDO is a little different with their active combat that AOC took to a semi new level. But it is the exact same thing that DAOC, Aion, EQ, EQ2, Lineage 2, LoTRO, and a plethora of others have used. Blizzard created nothing new with WoW, but because thats where a vast number of people got their start they think that everything afterwards is a clone of wow.
If anything WAR is an advancement of DAOC, not a clone of WOW, the fact that their mechanics are so similar is the nature of the business, hell even some single player RPGS are starting to use that whole autoattack fire off special abilities thing.
If anything WAR is an advancement of DAOC, not a clone of WOW, the fact that their mechanics are so similar is the nature of the business, hell even some single player RPGS are starting to use that whole autoattack fire off special abilities thing.
I'm sorry, but most people who've played WAR realized it was a clone and a very bad one, of WoW a month or so after playing it. It was just too boring for most people to play for long stretches and that's the only thing it didn't borrow from WoW's formula. I doubt you will ever read a story about a WAR player having to go to rehab or get help because he played WAR TOO much. It just wasn't that good a game for MOST people.
That said, we know you liked it and that's fine. That's not passing judgement on you or any other WAR player. But the reality is, tons of people played WAR and voted with their wallets. They unsubbed and the game went south Again, this is no reflection on the 75, 000 or so people who still play WAR. Even diehard tabletop fans recognized there was something "familiar" in this game but couldn't put their finger on it.
But if you don't know this is a bad clone of WoW, you must have not played WoW at all, or didn't play it for long. Even the former CEO Jacobs poised everything up as a battle between WAR and WoW, ala Coke vs Pepsi.
When the CEO does that, you better believe that the rest of the company is following his lead and making was WoW friendly as well, which is why it failed so hard.
People just went back to drink Coke instead of trying Pepsi.
Not surprising. The game seriously lacks a lasting end-game and no MMOG can survive, for a long time, without one.
Really dont get why they are so unable to fix the crappy end-game. Making it more RvR focused is a nice step but aslong as it doesnt "matter" then it will continue be meaningless, stale and boring.
EDIT: I agree with the above poster that WAR is a WoW clone. That is probably the second biggest misstake they did, after the crappy end-game. WAR should be a Warhammer clone. not a Warcraft clone. Big misstake, HUGE misstake.
Not surprising. The game seriously lacks a lasting end-game and no MMOG can survive, for a long time, without one.
Really dont get why they are so unable to fix the crappy end-game. Making it more RvR focused is a nice step but aslong as it doesnt "matter" then it will continue be meaningless, stale and boring.
Matter in what way?
Would you say WoW`s end game matters?
EDIT: I agree with the above poster that WAR is a WoW clone. That is probably the second biggest misstake they did, after the crappy end-game. WAR should be a Warhammer clone. not a Warcraft clone. Big misstake, HUGE misstake.
HUGE mistake indeed. No half-assed WoW knock-off is going to hit it big.
If they had gone more for the whole RvR experience, they could have taken a million PvPers from WoW, anyway.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Yes, but that's where most people stop. Aion, WoW, WAR, LoTRO, DDO, STO, L2, EQ2, AOC, SWG(NGE), etc etc etc are all clones and a model that has been somewhat successful. WoW is not an rts, it is a standard MMO with quest hubs and zones to be progressed through. WAR is the exact same thing. The similarity between the two lies in the fact that WOW was fathered by Games Workshop's Warhammer. How could the gameplay have been vastly different? DDO is a little different with their active combat that AOC took to a semi new level. But it is the exact same thing that DAOC, Aion, EQ, EQ2, Lineage 2, LoTRO, and a plethora of others have used. Blizzard created nothing new with WoW, but because thats where a vast number of people got their start they think that everything afterwards is a clone of wow.
If anything WAR is an advancement of DAOC, not a clone of WOW, the fact that their mechanics are so similar is the nature of the business, hell even some single player RPGS are starting to use that whole autoattack fire off special abilities thing.
WoW created a unique combination of existing elements. They mixed together a quest-driven design, with casual game-play, instancing and low/no death-penalty as well as an easily accessible PvP component between two factions.
None of those games you mentioned, beside Aion and WAR, tried the almost same combination. And where as Aion was a success WAR really cannot be considered to be one. Probably because people had expected a sequel to DAoC in a Warhammer setting but instead got a WoW clone in a Warhammer setting and with sub-par gfx to boot.
Not saying Warhammer Online is a bad game, it introduced quite a few innovative concepts such as Public Quests and an improved WoW battleground system in the form of scenarios but at its core it is a WoW clone.
Not surprising. The game seriously lacks a lasting end-game and no MMOG can survive, for a long time, without one.
Really dont get why they are so unable to fix the crappy end-game. Making it more RvR focused is a nice step but aslong as it doesnt "matter" then it will continue be meaningless, stale and boring.
Matter in what way?
Would you say WoW`s end game matters?
EDIT: I agree with the above poster that WAR is a WoW clone. That is probably the second biggest misstake they did, after the crappy end-game. WAR should be a Warhammer clone. not a Warcraft clone. Big misstake, HUGE misstake.
HUGE mistake indeed. No half-assed WoW knock-off is going to hit it big.
If they had gone more for the whole RvR experience, they could have taken a million PvPers from WoW, anyway.
No I dont consider WoWs end game to matter, did I indicate that I did?
It just proves more that WAR is WoW in that the end-game is completely pointless. However WoW has alot of more end-game content than does WoW so you aren't stuck with one semi-broken end-game as you do with WAR.
But, as you say, if they would have focused more on cloning, and improving, DAoC (with atleast three factions) the game would have been alot better than what it currently is.
What is killing WAR (imo):
Two factions instead of 3 (or more)
Boring end-game with little consequence for losing your capital and little gain for conquering a capital.
Lack of options for end-game content and just general lack of it.
Crappy gfx AND poor performance (no excuse to release a game several years after WoW but with almost the same gfx but still suffer from performance issues, even if those are mostly fixed now)
Boring O-RvR. DAoCs RvR is more fun and engaging. Probably because they tried to copy WoWs PvP rather than improving DAoCs.
1. Its not EA's fault b/c the DEV refused to listen to the beta testers, any input or complain in beta resulted a banned so everyone just kept quiet and keep playing for free.
2. Warhammer was a WoW clone, period. The initial Warhammer had only instance, no world rvr. The DEV even said they were playing WoW to see whats its like.
3. Warhammer failed b/c rvr sucks period, constant server crashes, instant crashes which were already shown back in beta but they just couldnt fix it.
1. Its not EA's fault b/c the DEV refused to listen to the beta testers, any input or complain in beta resulted a banned so everyone just kept quiet and keep playing for free.
2. Warhammer was a WoW clone, period. The initial Warhammer had only instance, no world rvr. The DEV even said they were playing WoW to see whats its like.
3. Warhammer failed b/c rvr sucks period, constant server crashes, instant crashes which were already shown back in beta but they just couldnt fix it.
Er, WAR did a lot of stuff different from WoW, probably the most different out of all the recent WoW clones (AoC, LotRO) and if they had put RvR in from the start, instead of instances, the game would have been great. DAoC has the track record as the best PvP game for a reason, it was the RvR.
1. Its not EA's fault b/c the DEV refused to listen to the beta testers, any input or complain in beta resulted a banned so everyone just kept quiet and keep playing for free.
2. Warhammer was a WoW clone, period. The initial Warhammer had only instance, no world rvr. The DEV even said they were playing WoW to see whats its like.
3. Warhammer failed b/c rvr sucks period, constant server crashes, instant crashes which were already shown back in beta but they just couldnt fix it.
Er, WAR did a lot of stuff different from WoW, probably the most different out of all the recent WoW clones (AoC, LotRO) and if they had put RvR in from the start, instead of instances, the game would have been great. DAoC has the track record as the best PvP game for a reason, it was the RvR.
RvR, i remember the hype it brings when they trademark it.
Finally we gona see a new game with more impressive RvR than DAOC. Great IP! New ideas! More massive! More great wars! War happening everywhere!!!
But alas, together with the bugs, boring pve, super small instances world and ultimately the RvR that so many have crave for yet fail so much, it finally brings down this game...
As a poster a few posts above me have said, its the core mechanics of this game that bought about its downfall. Not gold sellers nor the release of LK...
Comments
EA is a great company, hence BILLIONS. Terrible companies like Mythic never get to say the word BILLIONS and get eaten by great companies like EA. EA makes quality products which equal BILLIONS. If you are working at a company that makes BILLIONS they are great. It is impossible in business to generate BILLIONS and be terrible at whatever it is you do. Please try and refrain from the EA bashing and take the miliions they lost trusting a terrible company into account so that a player like yourself was afforded the opportunity to complain.
People blame EA because they have a long history of buying out successful gaming companies and then releasing badly flawed games. This is attributed to the fact that these titles are often rushed to release more quickly than they would have been if they were not under EA's control.
You are right that EA does do some games very well, but they are not often successful when they buy out other gaming companies... ESPECIALLY when it comes to MMOs. I'm just hoping they keep their hands of TOR and let Bioware do the work.
Last time i checked EA has been in debt for the past couple of years, each year being 300mil+.
EA, once upon a time was a great publisher. Without them companies like Origin, Westwood Studios, and Interplay would never have come to the pinnacle of game development 20 some odd years ago. However, they got too big for their own good and started swallowing the companies that were making them their money. With that swallowing they disallowed the artists the ability to create the games that they could have. Supposedly EA is striving to become the Electronic Artists that they used to be.
Warhammer's faults are not because of EA but because of Mythic's missteps and overreaching. DAOC, while many people loved the game, was never a great success compared to EQ and UO. And while Mythic endeavored to try some new things, PQ's for one, they did not do enough to differentiate themselves from the 800lb gorilla. It, of course, doesn't help that the IP that Mythic went with was also the spiritual father to that 800lb gorilla. I still think had they stuck with Imperium and gone the way they were things would be significantly different with Mythic as we sit right now.
Here's the big problem: Paul claimed that Warhammer was going to be the Led Zeppelin to Blizzard's Beatles. Unfortunately Warhammer is more akin to Damn Yankees or some other fly by night 80's band rather than anything close to Led Zeppelin. They should have struck out to make their own game and not worried about WoW or trying so hard to capture the WOW crowd. If people want to play wow, well... they will play wow.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
Doesnt the asian market use some kind of F'd up subscription plan? Where the players dont spend $15 a month to play, but pay based on a flat rate plus time spent in game?
My understanding is that per person the asian MMO market generates less revenue, but has the potential to have more players(subscribers) thus making it more lucrative.
And with more laws being passed in China and Korea restricting play time, that maybe keeping a regional server up and running becomes a drain on Mythic/EA resources.
So guys, this maybe a purely economic decision. And be better for the EU/NA player in the short and long run.
Not trying to spin it so much of a positive, but I think its more than "Oh shit the end is nigh!" I personaly think its a good thing. Never once have I seen Mythic state that the asian market has generated a whole lot of subscribers/income/players.
And truth to tell I was pissed when Mythic allocated resources to regionalize WAR for the asian market. In my opnion the comapny should have been focusing on its EU/NA players who were leaving because we were (I sure as hell was) tired of waiting on them to start balancing classes and addressing game play issues.
If that market is a drain on resources...f***'em, I say.
"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."
I'd like for you to name some of those QUALITY product that EA have made. The Sims was made by Maxis which was bought by EA halfway through development, so that doesn't really count. Their sports games? Can you tell me how games like FIFA have evolved since '99?
BTW releasing the same game with updated graphics isn't what I would call a quality product. And someone trying to blemish EAs reputation? EA probably has the worst reputation of all publishers/game studios out there. And they earned it.
And as for the topic at hand, this wasn't really unexpected.
Shut down in Asia, whats next hmmm?
Wasn't Mythic was working on Warhammer way before EA bought them out?
Even from the start Warhammer looked every bit a WoW clone and once EA got involved and the offical line of "game will be released when its ready" to "we are cutting gameplay elemets out to lanuch now" it was a failure in the making.
Only Mythic/Warhammer fans can do this constantly with a straight face and say over and over when told about all these massive servers closing...
"I personally think its a good thing Mythic is doing!"
Got a feeling when they finally shoot this dog in the head, Mythic fans will be saying-
"Yeah, but I personally think thats a goo...hey, wait!"
"TO MICHAEL!"
In all honesty, and I am a huge WAR supporter, it really is a WoW clone. I finally realized this last month after over a year of its release. I don't play it anymore because more people play WoW and WAR is exactly like WoW. Scenarios = BG's. ORVR = pvp but in a difference sense. I did really enjoy WAR but I finally realized it was not worth it. It has the same classes of WoW but a lot more poor execution. First time I played Hunter's Vale all I could think of is how poorly it was implemented and how much more linear of an instance it was compared to WoW. I miss my shammy...I do....but yeah....WoW makes more sense, and I don't even play that anymore. Mythic really messed up....big time...
If memory serves EA was in the process of buying mythic during the first alpha/closed beta sessions. Beta went down and the announcement came and there were several months of handwringing and EA bashing left and right on the old forums. When they brought us back in to continue testing the game was far better off. Now the reason why WAR looks like a WOW clone is because Blizzard endeavored to make a Warhammer game, Game's Workshop said no thanks. Blizzard had a game complete and ready to go so they changed part of the name (Warhammer to Warcraft) through together a bit of new lore and Warcraft: Orcs vs Humans was born.
There was no way that a Warhammer game could not look like wow in some very general ways. Personally, while I haven't played WAR in over a year, I still think it looks far better than WOW. The models of the weapons and the armor are superb and so is the environmental detail. WoW on the otherhand looks like a combination of Shrek and some cheap Anime. Where WoW has WAR beat is in the mechanics of the game. They have been working on the same game for 5 years now so there is a level of polish that WAR is still working towards, now whether or not they ever reach it I cannot say.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
There is no reason whatsoever that a MMO of the Tabletop Warhammer should play very much like the MMO of the mostly RTS Warcraft. Graphics sure, but gameplay could have been so vastly different. I don't think most people are basing their 'clone' remarks on the graphics.
im happy for one reason!some like ea and other are finally beginning to get the gamer message:
GO GLOBAL OR GO HOME!
the day when you could have 100000 version of the game sold to all diff publisher are over
they want it global,silkroad is proof dragon oath is proof guild wars.guild wars was probably the one that showed the potetnial fun there had to have in this model but aneranet showed us so much fun that gamer wont settle for less
check the aika fiasco:game pull in great number its beta they announce localisation(ipblock)game is a gost town now.
if this means ea will put their futur mmo global wise instead of localising ,then im a happy men.
i can understand translating the game but i cant understand having 69 copy of a game all ipblocked from each other
if wow do something!stay very far from it because most of the time you will fail trying to copy it
blizzard goes away untouched with a lot of stuff other mmo would die because of the bad rep.
dont forget that blizzard isnt the boss of their boat anymore .activision pen pusher finally put enough pressure on activision boss that he had to name a boss over blizzard.
blizzard will say it doesnt affect anything!ya right!(activision IS blizzard.so all the good blizzard did in the past is finished blocked by that activision boss or crowd controlled into thinking it was blizzared idea!)
we ll see how ea move!they have a tendancy to get the wrong message.
war isnt a bad game but in a f2p market it has to be f2p model!annoying?yes!even wow model is struggling in asia
and god knows its a big game.but against f2p its not even there
wow will probably be the last p2p morg giant !the futur is to f2p model.dont believe me
check the adds in any gamer site like mmorpg etc who buy publicity!the vast majority are f2p game!
that speak louder then any number convincing wow could try !
In no way was this a good thing for Mythic, the game was run by another company in the same way GOA does for Europe the server and other costs where payed by that company so all thats really happened is Mythic lost what ever the licence fee they where been payed.
EA had little to do with the failure that is Warhammer Online.
EA may have pushed Mythic to release early but the major flaws of Warhammer Online are at its core. No amount of additional development time would have saved it.
To help EA sent dozens of developers to Mythic and gave them tens of millions. What was EA to do?
EA is just the easy scape goat. People would rather blame them than realise that Mythic, the creators of DAoC, are not as good as they remember. Which itself is funny because Mythic did everything they could to ruin DAoC with every expansion.
Yes, but that's where most people stop. Aion, WoW, WAR, LoTRO, DDO, STO, L2, EQ2, AOC, SWG(NGE), etc etc etc are all clones and a model that has been somewhat successful. WoW is not an rts, it is a standard MMO with quest hubs and zones to be progressed through. WAR is the exact same thing. The similarity between the two lies in the fact that WOW was fathered by Games Workshop's Warhammer. How could the gameplay have been vastly different? DDO is a little different with their active combat that AOC took to a semi new level. But it is the exact same thing that DAOC, Aion, EQ, EQ2, Lineage 2, LoTRO, and a plethora of others have used. Blizzard created nothing new with WoW, but because thats where a vast number of people got their start they think that everything afterwards is a clone of wow.
If anything WAR is an advancement of DAOC, not a clone of WOW, the fact that their mechanics are so similar is the nature of the business, hell even some single player RPGS are starting to use that whole autoattack fire off special abilities thing.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
I'm sorry, but most people who've played WAR realized it was a clone and a very bad one, of WoW a month or so after playing it. It was just too boring for most people to play for long stretches and that's the only thing it didn't borrow from WoW's formula. I doubt you will ever read a story about a WAR player having to go to rehab or get help because he played WAR TOO much. It just wasn't that good a game for MOST people.
That said, we know you liked it and that's fine. That's not passing judgement on you or any other WAR player. But the reality is, tons of people played WAR and voted with their wallets. They unsubbed and the game went south Again, this is no reflection on the 75, 000 or so people who still play WAR. Even diehard tabletop fans recognized there was something "familiar" in this game but couldn't put their finger on it.
But if you don't know this is a bad clone of WoW, you must have not played WoW at all, or didn't play it for long. Even the former CEO Jacobs poised everything up as a battle between WAR and WoW, ala Coke vs Pepsi.
When the CEO does that, you better believe that the rest of the company is following his lead and making was WoW friendly as well, which is why it failed so hard.
People just went back to drink Coke instead of trying Pepsi.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Not surprising. The game seriously lacks a lasting end-game and no MMOG can survive, for a long time, without one.
Really dont get why they are so unable to fix the crappy end-game. Making it more RvR focused is a nice step but aslong as it doesnt "matter" then it will continue be meaningless, stale and boring.
EDIT: I agree with the above poster that WAR is a WoW clone. That is probably the second biggest misstake they did, after the crappy end-game. WAR should be a Warhammer clone. not a Warcraft clone. Big misstake, HUGE misstake.
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City of Heroes has no 'end game' and yet it turned 6 yesterday.
HUGE mistake indeed. No half-assed WoW knock-off is going to hit it big.
If they had gone more for the whole RvR experience, they could have taken a million PvPers from WoW, anyway.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
WoW created a unique combination of existing elements. They mixed together a quest-driven design, with casual game-play, instancing and low/no death-penalty as well as an easily accessible PvP component between two factions.
None of those games you mentioned, beside Aion and WAR, tried the almost same combination. And where as Aion was a success WAR really cannot be considered to be one. Probably because people had expected a sequel to DAoC in a Warhammer setting but instead got a WoW clone in a Warhammer setting and with sub-par gfx to boot.
Not saying Warhammer Online is a bad game, it introduced quite a few innovative concepts such as Public Quests and an improved WoW battleground system in the form of scenarios but at its core it is a WoW clone.
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No I dont consider WoWs end game to matter, did I indicate that I did?
It just proves more that WAR is WoW in that the end-game is completely pointless. However WoW has alot of more end-game content than does WoW so you aren't stuck with one semi-broken end-game as you do with WAR.
But, as you say, if they would have focused more on cloning, and improving, DAoC (with atleast three factions) the game would have been alot better than what it currently is.
What is killing WAR (imo):
Two factions instead of 3 (or more)
Boring end-game with little consequence for losing your capital and little gain for conquering a capital.
Lack of options for end-game content and just general lack of it.
Crappy gfx AND poor performance (no excuse to release a game several years after WoW but with almost the same gfx but still suffer from performance issues, even if those are mostly fixed now)
Boring O-RvR. DAoCs RvR is more fun and engaging. Probably because they tried to copy WoWs PvP rather than improving DAoCs.
Clone of WoW but with fraction of the content.
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1. Its not EA's fault b/c the DEV refused to listen to the beta testers, any input or complain in beta resulted a banned so everyone just kept quiet and keep playing for free.
2. Warhammer was a WoW clone, period. The initial Warhammer had only instance, no world rvr. The DEV even said they were playing WoW to see whats its like.
3. Warhammer failed b/c rvr sucks period, constant server crashes, instant crashes which were already shown back in beta but they just couldnt fix it.
Er, WAR did a lot of stuff different from WoW, probably the most different out of all the recent WoW clones (AoC, LotRO) and if they had put RvR in from the start, instead of instances, the game would have been great. DAoC has the track record as the best PvP game for a reason, it was the RvR.
RvR, i remember the hype it brings when they trademark it.
Finally we gona see a new game with more impressive RvR than DAOC. Great IP! New ideas! More massive! More great wars! War happening everywhere!!!
But alas, together with the bugs, boring pve, super small instances world and ultimately the RvR that so many have crave for yet fail so much, it finally brings down this game...
As a poster a few posts above me have said, its the core mechanics of this game that bought about its downfall. Not gold sellers nor the release of LK...
RIP Orc Choppa