Again, this isn't a knock on people who still are playing it.. I mean there are still 75,000 people subbed!
That's like.. enough to fill a small town, right?
Not trolling, but are you sure they have 75k subs? I wouldnt call the game dead if the number really was that high but from what i've seen i would say they have less than 20k subs.
Originally posted by Gabby-air Originally posted by popinjay
Originally posted by Yamota Not saying Warhammer Online is a bad game,
I'll say it for you... WAR is a bad game.
Again, this isn't a knock on people who still are playing it.. I mean there are still 75,000 people subbed!
That's like.. enough to fill a small town, right? Not trolling, but are you sure they have 75k subs? I wouldnt call the game dead if the number really was that high but from what i've seen i would say they have less than 20k subs.
I think they have around 5-6 servers left and if each server had 10,000 subs then.. oh. Wait..
you're right. They probably have even less than that. There is no way they have 10k people on each of their servers.
I think they just announced they closed their official merchandise store as well, so it's probably pretty bad when you have to shut that down.
Again, this isn't a knock on people who still are playing it.. I mean there are still 75,000 people subbed!
That's like.. enough to fill a small town, right?
Not trolling, but are you sure they have 75k subs? I wouldnt call the game dead if the number really was that high but from what i've seen i would say they have less than 20k subs.
Somewhere 100k or south of that sounds about right for the game but don't forget that's a WORLDWIDE number. Not just the US.
Again, this isn't a knock on people who still are playing it.. I mean there are still 75,000 people subbed!
That's like.. enough to fill a small town, right?
Not trolling, but are you sure they have 75k subs? I wouldnt call the game dead if the number really was that high but from what i've seen i would say they have less than 20k subs.
There are 5-6 (?) servers in US and another 5 in Europe and 1 (?) in Russia. That is around 11 servers and 20k subs sounds an awful few people for 11 servers.
I wager that 75k is more close to mark and judging by XFire rank, relative to other games, I would say it is closer to 100k.
A failure considering some dev said they needed around 300k of sustainable subs to reach their mark but still, 20k is not very realistic.
I disagree, and that is not just my subjective opinion. I have tried many MMORPGs and WAR has by far the most accessible casual PvP out there and basically the only game where you can level to cap, in a realistic time-frame, without killing one single PvE mob. That alone makes it not a bad game.
And then you have PQs which is one of the most innovative features MMOGs has seen for years. Also the different classes are quite innovative by themselves. The Witch-Hunter and Bright Wizards that can build up power to release devestating attacks, Swordmasters with different stances, Archmages with two types of spells which build up the other one and so on.
Warhammer Online did alot of things right, the problem is that it did alot of, key, elements wrong. Main one being that they tried to clone WoW rather than to build a Warhammer/DAoC game and ofcourse a terrible end-game which still sucks.
I disagree, and that is not just my subjective opinion. I have tried many MMORPGs and WAR has by far the most accessible casual PvP out there and basically the only game where you can level to cap, in a realistic time-frame, without killing one single PvE mob. That alone makes it not a bad game.
Tough call. Tier three will be slow only PvPing. I'd agree, though. Leveling right from the start by PvP is fantastic. I refuse to consider any game which does not allow it as a PvP game.
And then you have PQs which is one of the most innovative features MMOGs has seen for years. Also the different classes are quite innovative by themselves.
Agreed.
The Witch-Hunter and Bright Wizards that can build up power to release devestating attacks, Swordmasters with different stances, Archmages with two types of spells which build up the other one and so on.
Warhammer Online did alot of things right, the problem is that it did alot of, key, elements wrong. Main one being that they tried to clone WoW rather than to build a Warhammer/DAoC game and ofcourse a terrible end-game which still sucks.
And the engine - which was a major factor in driving players away.
Some very good ideas, some very bad ideas (gating content with the Wards, rewarding capping keeps rather than holding them), tons of bugs, and missing content as well.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Hmmm it's the end? Maybe. If it is: a pity. I liked WAR somehow. I liked the graphics (apart from ground textures), animations, models and landscapes. I didn't like it enough though to keep beeing subscribed, never went past level 20 with any char.
Early on, it just didn't hook me. I played it, but there was somehow not much of a motivation to play on, I couldn't even point my finger at why. And later on: I thought often about resubscribing, but there were nothing about any new big stuff coming. There were always only small fixes and making the game more efficient and whatnot.
Do you really think EA had enough influence during that last year to turn WAR into what it is? So much of the game was already done by the time that EA came on board that couldn't have made it worse, merely cut a few planned features. And we all know no new features can fix what is currently broken in the game.
It was actually Mythic the whole time. As somoene who was in beta from the very first wave I can guarantee you that EA had no hand in the development direction of WAR. It would have actually released even MORE unfinished than it did if EA hadn't given Mythic money for more development time.
But it was certainly year 4 and 5: idiots on forums that intervened with "hardcore RvR demanded" changes.
Actually, this is entirely untrue. The original public test version of the game had no open world RvR at all. All PvP was done through the scenarios. It was increadibly boring, all of the testers told them this. Then Mythic realized. "Oh right, we made DAoC." But by that time it was too late. They already had their stupid design of the game in place and tacked on the open world RvR + Keeps as an after thought to their instanced scenarios.
I repeat, the original design of WAR had NO open world PvP at all.
"It doesn"t matter if I lose all day, I want to fight" "I will join the underdog" "I want to have the real hard RVR".
This had absolutely nothing to do with it. The game was a boring arcade game that Mythic wanted to charge a monthly payment for before adding the open world RvR. The horribly patched together and quickly thrown into the game open world RvR system is the only reason the game didn't tank right out of the gate.
"I don't want cross server BG's like that stupid game of WOW". I want Realm based fights."
Most of the beta testers thought this would have been a good idea, actually. Unfortunately the developers only ever said that they were "looking into" this type of system. Nothing ever came of it.
Search for the failure right there: Mythic didn't know anymore what to do to please the (spoiled) fans. And that jumping of monkey Paul on those videos certainly didn't help either.
The failure was that Mythic thought they could shun their entire DAoC fanbase to compete with WoW. Unfortunately after actually letting real people test their game they soon realized they made a huge mistake and didn't have time to fix it.
The reason so much content was cut before release is because they never planned on having open world RvR. Adding that took up the development time for all the other stuff.
Single realm based RVR is as dead as could be. No one plays the losing side for longer than 2months.... every day.
And guess what the BIGGER mouths on those forums quit as first.
It were - of course - the same guys who moan in BG's when they just lost a single fight.
As always.
Unless you were in beta you have no idea why Mythic made the decisions they did. And even the beta testers didn't know half the time. Mythic just did what they wanted even with most of the beta testers yelling at them to fix the game.
They never listened to the testers, and in the end, released a subpar product.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Perhaps a genious can come up with a mechanism that combines play motivation, balance and losing (and you'll need a BIG popualtion to come to this), but until then the traditional single server "hard control" RvR is simply a dead option these days.
It's been done before, ironically by Mythic .... multiple factions. Think how great war would have been with 5 or even 3 factions.
Do you really think EA had enough influence during that last year to turn WAR into what it is? So much of the game was already done by the time that EA came on board that couldn't have made it worse, merely cut a few planned features. And we all know no new features can fix what is currently broken in the game.
I think it was more like:
Year 1 to 3: Mythic and Year 4 to 5: EA.
But it was certainly year 4 and 5: idiots on forums that intervened with "hardcore RvR demanded" changes.
"It doesn"t matter if I lose all day, I want to fight" "I will join the underdog" "I want to have the real hard RVR".
"I don't want cross server BG's like that stupid game of WOW". I want Realm based fights."
Search for the failure right there: Mythic didn't know anymore what to do to please the (spoiled) fans. And that jumping of monkey Paul on those videos certainly didn't help either.
Single realm based RVR is as dead as could be. No one plays the losing side for longer than 2months.... every day.
And guess what the BIGGER mouths on those forums quit as first.
It were - of course - the same guys who moan in BG's when they just lost a single fight.
As always.
I don't think either of your accounts is accurate.
Mythic acquired the warhammer license in May 2005 and planned to release in 2007. The original development time table was 2.5 years max.
Mythic delayed the release of the game 2 times. Once to Q1 2008 and the final time to Aug 2008.
Warhammer was in development from May 2005 to Aug 2008 and that includes a full year of delays. Tack on that Mythic tried to radically alter the gameplay near the end of beta by adding in open RvR with little to know regard to how it would affect or be affected by the rest of the games design focus. Two companies threw a ton of money and resources at a project and hoped they could cut the development time in about half.
That is a recipe for disaster regardless of who was in charge. Even daoc seemed more like luck in the better game elements than it was good design. Most of the same mistakes in daoc were quickly repeated in warhammer which further makes me think Mythic never really understood what they were doing.
Warhammer Online was an attempt to make a World of Warcraft + DaoC game. And it failed on both fronts. It took nothing of what made DaoC great and nothing of what makes World of Warcraft great.
The PvE was all but lacking any real depth and the PvP was a complete mess of flipping points and keeps. It doesn't matter if it was Mythic or EA that messed up the game since Mythic is now part of EA and they are both at fault for releasing the game as it was.
If you ask me they should have just made a DaoC 2 or given DaoC a nice graphics and interface overall. It would have done alot more for them then what Warhammer Online has.
It's blatantly obvious that Mythic was faced with the choice of sticking to their formula or going for a misguided grab of WoW subscribers and went for the latter and went for it early in the game's development. The game's nothing like DaoC and it's clear they weren't aiming to please their former fanbase. You can't blame them for being lured by WoW's sub rates. You can blame them for making a shite game though.
It wasn't just the 3 realms-vs-realm that made DaoC good. DaoC's PVE added to the RvR as you has something you cared about defending. Your realm was your home and people had 'realm pride'. No one cares about defending a quest treadmill that has no soul. They fact is they either they didn't recognise what made their first game work so well or didn't care about it as they were too transfixed on WoW's subscription titties to care.
Originally posted by Yamota Originally posted by Gabby-air
Originally posted by popinjay
Originally posted by Yamota Not saying Warhammer Online is a bad game,
I'll say it for you... WAR is a bad game.
Again, this isn't a knock on people who still are playing it.. I mean there are still 75,000 people subbed!
That's like.. enough to fill a small town, right? Not trolling, but are you sure they have 75k subs? I wouldnt call the game dead if the number really was that high but from what i've seen i would say they have less than 20k subs. There are 5-6 (?) servers in US and another 5 in Europe and 1 (?) in Russia. That is around 11 servers and 20k subs sounds an awful few people for 11 servers. I wager that 75k is more close to mark and judging by XFire rank, relative to other games, I would say it is closer to 100k. A failure considering some dev said they needed around 300k of sustainable subs to reach their mark but still, 20k is not very realistic.
Good points...
One thing I can't imagine is that the Russian server is doing well at all. We hadn't heard a peep out of that for the longest time. I would imagine they'd roll that one up into the EU ones soon. No way I'd put this anywhere near 100k though.
With summer coming and spring already here, I'm sure those numbers are already lower than 75k. Even popular games like Wow's numbers drop horrificly during the nice weather and pick up again during the fall when the weather changes.
Originally posted by Yamota Originally posted by popinjay
Originally posted by Yamota
Not saying Warhammer Online is a bad game,
I'll say it for you... WAR is a bad game.
I disagree, and that is not just my subjective opinion. I have tried many MMORPGs and WAR has by far the most accessible casual PvP out there and basically the only game where you can level to cap, in a realistic time-frame, without killing one single PvE mob. That alone makes it not a bad game. And then you have PQs which is one of the most innovative features MMOGs has seen for years. Also the different classes are quite innovative by themselves. The Witch-Hunter and Bright Wizards that can build up power to release devestating attacks, Swordmasters with different stances, Archmages with two types of spells which build up the other one and so on. Warhammer Online did alot of things right, the problem is that it did alot of, key, elements wrong. Main one being that they tried to clone WoW rather than to build a Warhammer/DAoC game and ofcourse a terrible end-game which still sucks.
True, they had some nice features like PQ, Lore book, etc.. but like everything else it didn't make up for the whole. Most people thought it was a bad game.
To rate it a good game on the basis of things like PQs and a few other things they did well, to me is like rating a car a "good buy" because it came with a really neat voice activated stereo, a great Head Up driver display, and nice backseat DVD player even though the car ran like crap, stalled out, got crappy gas mileage and generally cost way too much for the price they charged you. Sure they got a lot of elements right in the car, but the main reason you buy it was because it was supposed to be fun AND dependable. This game was far from dependable from:
Crafting.
Game class balancing.
Loot distribution.
Cast lag.
Graphics that should have been cleaned up long before and STILL suffer problems.
Bad, boring questsand the list goes on. They far outweight what they did right.
Which equates into a bad car; or in this case a bad game. But again, that is totally subjective.
Some people DO buy cars based on a nice voice activated stereo system as we all know.
Warhammer Online was an attempt to make a World of Warcraft + DaoC game. And it failed on both fronts. It took nothing of what made DaoC great and nothing of what makes World of Warcraft great.
The PvE was all but lacking any real depth and the PvP was a complete mess of flipping points and keeps. It doesn't matter if it was Mythic or EA that messed up the game since Mythic is now part of EA and they are both at fault for releasing the game as it was.
If you ask me they should have just made a DaoC 2 or given DaoC a nice graphics and interface overall. It would have done alot more for them then what Warhammer Online has.
I do think WAR is a mess and could have been alot better. However, it was never a clone of wow in any way shape or form. Everything WoW offers could be easily found in another game. even the newest trend making things available thru micro transaction is nothing new to the subsription based world.
Warhammer Online was an attempt to make a World of Warcraft + DaoC game. And it failed on both fronts. It took nothing of what made DaoC great and nothing of what makes World of Warcraft great.
The PvE was all but lacking any real depth and the PvP was a complete mess of flipping points and keeps. It doesn't matter if it was Mythic or EA that messed up the game since Mythic is now part of EA and they are both at fault for releasing the game as it was.
If you ask me they should have just made a DaoC 2 or given DaoC a nice graphics and interface overall. It would have done alot more for them then what Warhammer Online has.
I do think WAR is a mess and could have been alot better. However, it was never a clone of wow in any way shape or form. Everything WoW offers could be easily found in another game. even the newest trend making things available thru micro transaction is nothing new to the subsription based world.
Well they took some things from wow and dumbed it down even further: quest based design with stupid red marks showing you exactly where to go (braindead? isn't it), no death penalty at all and crappy gfx. However the RMT + p2p crap started with Everquest 2.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Warhammer Online was an attempt to make a World of Warcraft + DaoC game. And it failed on both fronts. It took nothing of what made DaoC great and nothing of what makes World of Warcraft great.
The PvE was all but lacking any real depth and the PvP was a complete mess of flipping points and keeps. It doesn't matter if it was Mythic or EA that messed up the game since Mythic is now part of EA and they are both at fault for releasing the game as it was.
If you ask me they should have just made a DaoC 2 or given DaoC a nice graphics and interface overall. It would have done alot more for them then what Warhammer Online has.
I do think WAR is a mess and could have been alot better. However, it was never a clone of wow in any way shape or form. Everything WoW offers could be easily found in another game. even the newest trend making things available thru micro transaction is nothing new to the subsription based world.
I wouldn't say that the underlined portion is entirely true. You seem to point to other games that emulate wow as proof that warhammer didn't emulate wow.
While all games borrow heavily from one another, they usually end up with a gameplay feeling that is distinctive to their own game. Warhammer had far to much that just felt like you had done before in the same exact fashion in another game. Just for example, scenarios felt like they were ripped straight out of wow and pasted into warhammer, right down to the identical look of the scoreboard at the each of a match.
For me personally, warhammer felt like playing wow for the most part, minus the aspects that made wow an interesting game to play. The one real standout feature that gave warhammer its own identity was buggy, disfunctional and not very well thought out at all. What was left was a game that had nearly identical base gameplay to wow, but not even close to the same quality level with a busted pvp system.
I think just playing the game for a decent amount of time would convince most people what mythic was trying to emulate in their approach to this game. It isn't the most blatant game cloning that has gone on, but it has enough to give anyone the sense of what mythic was aiming for.
p.s. Yes I am aware of the whole lore issues with the games, but that isn't what I am talking about.
To rate it a good game on the basis of things like PQs and a few other things they did well, to me is like rating a car a "good buy" because it came with a really neat voice activated stereo, a great Head Up driver display, and nice backseat DVD player even though the car ran like crap, stalled out, got crappy gas mileage and generally cost way too much for the price they charged you. Sure they got a lot of elements right in the car, but the main reason you buy it was because it was supposed to be fun AND dependable. This game was far from dependable from:
Crafting.
Game class balancing.
Loot distribution.
Cast lag.
Graphics that should have been cleaned up long before and STILL suffer problems.
Bad, boring questsand the list goes on. They far outweight what they did right.
Which equates into a bad car; or in this case a bad game. But again, that is totally subjective.
Some people DO buy cars based on a nice voice activated stereo system as we all know.
Always nice to read text from people that are so full of themselves that they deem their opinion to be more worth than others. But again, that is totally subjective.
Originally posted by Sikhander Originally posted by popinjay To rate it a good game on the basis of things like PQs and a few other things they did well, to me is like rating a car a "good buy" because it came with a really neat voice activated stereo, a great Head Up driver display, and nice backseat DVD player even though the car ran like crap, stalled out, got crappy gas mileage and generally cost way too much for the price they charged you. Sure they got a lot of elements right in the car, but the main reason you buy it was because it was supposed to be fun AND dependable. This game was far from dependable from: Crafting. Game class balancing. Loot distribution. Cast lag. Graphics that should have been cleaned up long before and STILL suffer problems. Bad, boring questsand the list goes on. They far outweight what they did right. Which equates into a bad car; or in this case a bad game. But again, that is totally subjective. Some people DO buy cars based on a nice voice activated stereo system as we all know.
Always nice to read text from people that are so full of themselves that they deem their opinion to be more worth than others. But again, that is totally subjective.
Not sure why you're offended by an opinion of a game that you didn't make.
Never understand why some fans take it like someone personally kicked their mommas.
It's a just a game, dude.
You didn't make it; you just like it. Most people didn't. Even though this game will be shut down soon, earn to smile once in awhile
You'll find something else to spend 8 hours a day on.
Not sure why you're offended by an opinion of a game that you didn't make.
Never understand why some fans take it like someone personally kicked their mommas.
It's a just a game, dude.
You didn't make it; you just like it. Most people didn't. Even though this game will be shut down soon, earn to smile once in awhile
You'll find something else to spend 8 hours a day on.
Way to miss the point.
I did not react to the fact that you do not enjoy Warhammer. I did react to your implicit (and you are a smart guy so you know what you wrote) statement that WAR objectively is a bad game and that people that do play it are like those that buy a car based on the audio system. That was self righteous crap right there and you know it.
I do not take criticism to WAR personally. Why would I? The last 10 years I have played a multitude of MMOs - most of them with serious flaws of some sort or the other and depending on whether the ups are what I enjoy at the moment or the downs the game collects dust or not. Right now I really enjoy MMO-based PvP and I honestly (despite its flaws) enjoy WAR the most in that department.
Originally posted by Sikhander Originally posted by popinjay Not sure why you're offended by an opinion of a game that you didn't make.
Never understand why some fans take it like someone personally kicked their mommas.
It's a just a game, dude.
You didn't make it; you just like it. Most people didn't. Even though this game will be shut down soon, earn to smile once in awhile
You'll find something else to spend 8 hours a day on.
Way to miss the point. I did not react to the fact that you do not enjoy Warhammer. I did react to your implicit (and you are a smart guy so you know what you wrote) statement that WAR objectively is a bad game and that people that do play it are like those that buy a car based on the audio system. That was self righteous crap right there and you know it. I do not take criticism to WAR personally. Why would I? The last 10 years I have played a multitude of MMOs - most of them with serious flaws of some sort or the other and depending on whether the ups are what I enjoy at the moment or the downs the game collects dust or not. Right now I really enjoy MMO-based PvP and I honestly (despite its flaws) enjoy WAR the most in that department.
Yeah, you overreacted. Read your comment and you'll see. And you really miss what's going on. I'll spell it out.
This game is the walking dead.
There will be no "third faction."
There will be no rebirth.
Soon people will be talking about this game in the same breath as Tabula Rasa. And fans like you with your personal comments on people expressing their own views about this game is part of the reason why this game tanked. You're just as hardheaded as the former CEO Jacobs, lol. You don't like honest criticism and you can't stand hearing the truth about it.
You guys didn't like it in Month 2 and 3 and you hate hearing "We told you so" now.
The game will be closed this year, so please, don't spend what little time you have defending it or pvping here. Go enjoy the game by all means. I have no idea why some of you love to pvp here instead of the game. Maybe it's easier to actually find opponents or maybe you're getting tired of getting facerolled in the same scenarios when you do finally queue.
People DO like crappy things and purchase them all the time whether its cars or MMOs that is a fact. Don't act like this game hasn't had the vast majority of people vote with their wallets and found it lacking. It's crappy... that YOU like it doesn't mean I'm implying you are slow, or somehow a person who like polyester pants and Ford Escorts. But if you take it that way, you might think about the shoe fitting and all that jazz.
But yeah, we know you took it personal. That's pretty obvious, lol. Again, you will find something to better fill your days when it closes, don't worry. There is real life after mmos, you know.
Comments
I'll say it for you... WAR is a bad game.
Again, this isn't a knock on people who still are playing it.. I mean there are still 75,000 people subbed!
That's like.. enough to fill a small town, right?
"TO MICHAEL!"
Not trolling, but are you sure they have 75k subs? I wouldnt call the game dead if the number really was that high but from what i've seen i would say they have less than 20k subs.
I'll say it for you... WAR is a bad game.
Again, this isn't a knock on people who still are playing it.. I mean there are still 75,000 people subbed!
That's like.. enough to fill a small town, right?
Not trolling, but are you sure they have 75k subs? I wouldnt call the game dead if the number really was that high but from what i've seen i would say they have less than 20k subs.
I think they have around 5-6 servers left and if each server had 10,000 subs then.. oh. Wait..
you're right. They probably have even less than that. There is no way they have 10k people on each of their servers.
I think they just announced they closed their official merchandise store as well, so it's probably pretty bad when you have to shut that down.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Somewhere 100k or south of that sounds about right for the game but don't forget that's a WORLDWIDE number. Not just the US.
There are 5-6 (?) servers in US and another 5 in Europe and 1 (?) in Russia. That is around 11 servers and 20k subs sounds an awful few people for 11 servers.
I wager that 75k is more close to mark and judging by XFire rank, relative to other games, I would say it is closer to 100k.
A failure considering some dev said they needed around 300k of sustainable subs to reach their mark but still, 20k is not very realistic.
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I disagree, and that is not just my subjective opinion. I have tried many MMORPGs and WAR has by far the most accessible casual PvP out there and basically the only game where you can level to cap, in a realistic time-frame, without killing one single PvE mob. That alone makes it not a bad game.
And then you have PQs which is one of the most innovative features MMOGs has seen for years. Also the different classes are quite innovative by themselves. The Witch-Hunter and Bright Wizards that can build up power to release devestating attacks, Swordmasters with different stances, Archmages with two types of spells which build up the other one and so on.
Warhammer Online did alot of things right, the problem is that it did alot of, key, elements wrong. Main one being that they tried to clone WoW rather than to build a Warhammer/DAoC game and ofcourse a terrible end-game which still sucks.
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And the engine - which was a major factor in driving players away.
Some very good ideas, some very bad ideas (gating content with the Wards, rewarding capping keeps rather than holding them), tons of bugs, and missing content as well.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Hmmm it's the end? Maybe. If it is: a pity. I liked WAR somehow. I liked the graphics (apart from ground textures), animations, models and landscapes. I didn't like it enough though to keep beeing subscribed, never went past level 20 with any char.
Early on, it just didn't hook me. I played it, but there was somehow not much of a motivation to play on, I couldn't even point my finger at why. And later on: I thought often about resubscribing, but there were nothing about any new big stuff coming. There were always only small fixes and making the game more efficient and whatnot.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
Warhammer - 5 years of development
Year 1 = Mythic
Year 2 = Mythic
Year 3 = Mythic
Year 4 = Mythic
Year 5 = EA Mythic
Do you really think EA had enough influence during that last year to turn WAR into what it is? So much of the game was already done by the time that EA came on board that couldn't have made it worse, merely cut a few planned features. And we all know no new features can fix what is currently broken in the game.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
It's been done before, ironically by Mythic .... multiple factions. Think how great war would have been with 5 or even 3 factions.
I don't think either of your accounts is accurate.
Mythic acquired the warhammer license in May 2005 and planned to release in 2007. The original development time table was 2.5 years max.
EA bought Mythic in June 2006.
Mythic delayed the release of the game 2 times. Once to Q1 2008 and the final time to Aug 2008.
Warhammer was in development from May 2005 to Aug 2008 and that includes a full year of delays. Tack on that Mythic tried to radically alter the gameplay near the end of beta by adding in open RvR with little to know regard to how it would affect or be affected by the rest of the games design focus. Two companies threw a ton of money and resources at a project and hoped they could cut the development time in about half.
That is a recipe for disaster regardless of who was in charge. Even daoc seemed more like luck in the better game elements than it was good design. Most of the same mistakes in daoc were quickly repeated in warhammer which further makes me think Mythic never really understood what they were doing.
Warhammer Online was an attempt to make a World of Warcraft + DaoC game. And it failed on both fronts. It took nothing of what made DaoC great and nothing of what makes World of Warcraft great.
The PvE was all but lacking any real depth and the PvP was a complete mess of flipping points and keeps. It doesn't matter if it was Mythic or EA that messed up the game since Mythic is now part of EA and they are both at fault for releasing the game as it was.
If you ask me they should have just made a DaoC 2 or given DaoC a nice graphics and interface overall. It would have done alot more for them then what Warhammer Online has.
It's blatantly obvious that Mythic was faced with the choice of sticking to their formula or going for a misguided grab of WoW subscribers and went for the latter and went for it early in the game's development. The game's nothing like DaoC and it's clear they weren't aiming to please their former fanbase. You can't blame them for being lured by WoW's sub rates. You can blame them for making a shite game though.
It wasn't just the 3 realms-vs-realm that made DaoC good. DaoC's PVE added to the RvR as you has something you cared about defending. Your realm was your home and people had 'realm pride'. No one cares about defending a quest treadmill that has no soul. They fact is they either they didn't recognise what made their first game work so well or didn't care about it as they were too transfixed on WoW's subscription titties to care.
Currently Playing: The Game
I'll say it for you... WAR is a bad game.
Again, this isn't a knock on people who still are playing it.. I mean there are still 75,000 people subbed!
That's like.. enough to fill a small town, right?
Not trolling, but are you sure they have 75k subs? I wouldnt call the game dead if the number really was that high but from what i've seen i would say they have less than 20k subs.
There are 5-6 (?) servers in US and another 5 in Europe and 1 (?) in Russia. That is around 11 servers and 20k subs sounds an awful few people for 11 servers.
I wager that 75k is more close to mark and judging by XFire rank, relative to other games, I would say it is closer to 100k.
A failure considering some dev said they needed around 300k of sustainable subs to reach their mark but still, 20k is not very realistic.
Good points...
One thing I can't imagine is that the Russian server is doing well at all. We hadn't heard a peep out of that for the longest time. I would imagine they'd roll that one up into the EU ones soon. No way I'd put this anywhere near 100k though.
With summer coming and spring already here, I'm sure those numbers are already lower than 75k. Even popular games like Wow's numbers drop horrificly during the nice weather and pick up again during the fall when the weather changes.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I'll say it for you... WAR is a bad game.
I disagree, and that is not just my subjective opinion. I have tried many MMORPGs and WAR has by far the most accessible casual PvP out there and basically the only game where you can level to cap, in a realistic time-frame, without killing one single PvE mob. That alone makes it not a bad game.
And then you have PQs which is one of the most innovative features MMOGs has seen for years. Also the different classes are quite innovative by themselves. The Witch-Hunter and Bright Wizards that can build up power to release devestating attacks, Swordmasters with different stances, Archmages with two types of spells which build up the other one and so on.
Warhammer Online did alot of things right, the problem is that it did alot of, key, elements wrong. Main one being that they tried to clone WoW rather than to build a Warhammer/DAoC game and ofcourse a terrible end-game which still sucks.
True, they had some nice features like PQ, Lore book, etc.. but like everything else it didn't make up for the whole. Most people thought it was a bad game.
To rate it a good game on the basis of things like PQs and a few other things they did well, to me is like rating a car a "good buy" because it came with a really neat voice activated stereo, a great Head Up driver display, and nice backseat DVD player even though the car ran like crap, stalled out, got crappy gas mileage and generally cost way too much for the price they charged you. Sure they got a lot of elements right in the car, but the main reason you buy it was because it was supposed to be fun AND dependable. This game was far from dependable from:
Crafting.
Game class balancing.
Loot distribution.
Cast lag.
Graphics that should have been cleaned up long before and STILL suffer problems.
Bad, boring questsand the list goes on. They far outweight what they did right.
Which equates into a bad car; or in this case a bad game. But again, that is totally subjective.
Some people DO buy cars based on a nice voice activated stereo system as we all know.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I do think WAR is a mess and could have been alot better. However, it was never a clone of wow in any way shape or form. Everything WoW offers could be easily found in another game. even the newest trend making things available thru micro transaction is nothing new to the subsription based world.
Well they took some things from wow and dumbed it down even further: quest based design with stupid red marks showing you exactly where to go (braindead? isn't it), no death penalty at all and crappy gfx. However the RMT + p2p crap started with Everquest 2.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
I wouldn't say that the underlined portion is entirely true. You seem to point to other games that emulate wow as proof that warhammer didn't emulate wow.
While all games borrow heavily from one another, they usually end up with a gameplay feeling that is distinctive to their own game. Warhammer had far to much that just felt like you had done before in the same exact fashion in another game. Just for example, scenarios felt like they were ripped straight out of wow and pasted into warhammer, right down to the identical look of the scoreboard at the each of a match.
For me personally, warhammer felt like playing wow for the most part, minus the aspects that made wow an interesting game to play. The one real standout feature that gave warhammer its own identity was buggy, disfunctional and not very well thought out at all. What was left was a game that had nearly identical base gameplay to wow, but not even close to the same quality level with a busted pvp system.
I think just playing the game for a decent amount of time would convince most people what mythic was trying to emulate in their approach to this game. It isn't the most blatant game cloning that has gone on, but it has enough to give anyone the sense of what mythic was aiming for.
p.s. Yes I am aware of the whole lore issues with the games, but that isn't what I am talking about.
Always nice to read text from people that are so full of themselves that they deem their opinion to be more worth than others. But again, that is totally subjective.
Not sure why you're offended by an opinion of a game that you didn't make.
Never understand why some fans take it like someone personally kicked their mommas.
It's a just a game, dude.
You didn't make it; you just like it. Most people didn't. Even though this game will be shut down soon, earn to smile once in awhile
You'll find something else to spend 8 hours a day on.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Way to miss the point.
I did not react to the fact that you do not enjoy Warhammer. I did react to your implicit (and you are a smart guy so you know what you wrote) statement that WAR objectively is a bad game and that people that do play it are like those that buy a car based on the audio system. That was self righteous crap right there and you know it.
I do not take criticism to WAR personally. Why would I? The last 10 years I have played a multitude of MMOs - most of them with serious flaws of some sort or the other and depending on whether the ups are what I enjoy at the moment or the downs the game collects dust or not. Right now I really enjoy MMO-based PvP and I honestly (despite its flaws) enjoy WAR the most in that department.
I did not react to the fact that you do not enjoy Warhammer. I did react to your implicit (and you are a smart guy so you know what you wrote) statement that WAR objectively is a bad game and that people that do play it are like those that buy a car based on the audio system. That was self righteous crap right there and you know it.
I do not take criticism to WAR personally. Why would I? The last 10 years I have played a multitude of MMOs - most of them with serious flaws of some sort or the other and depending on whether the ups are what I enjoy at the moment or the downs the game collects dust or not. Right now I really enjoy MMO-based PvP and I honestly (despite its flaws) enjoy WAR the most in that department.
Yeah, you overreacted. Read your comment and you'll see. And you really miss what's going on. I'll spell it out.
This game is the walking dead.
There will be no "third faction."
There will be no rebirth.
Soon people will be talking about this game in the same breath as Tabula Rasa. And fans like you with your personal comments on people expressing their own views about this game is part of the reason why this game tanked. You're just as hardheaded as the former CEO Jacobs, lol. You don't like honest criticism and you can't stand hearing the truth about it.
You guys didn't like it in Month 2 and 3 and you hate hearing "We told you so" now.
The game will be closed this year, so please, don't spend what little time you have defending it or pvping here. Go enjoy the game by all means. I have no idea why some of you love to pvp here instead of the game. Maybe it's easier to actually find opponents or maybe you're getting tired of getting facerolled in the same scenarios when you do finally queue.
People DO like crappy things and purchase them all the time whether its cars or MMOs that is a fact. Don't act like this game hasn't had the vast majority of people vote with their wallets and found it lacking. It's crappy... that YOU like it doesn't mean I'm implying you are slow, or somehow a person who like polyester pants and Ford Escorts. But if you take it that way, you might think about the shoe fitting and all that jazz.
But yeah, we know you took it personal. That's pretty obvious, lol. Again, you will find something to better fill your days when it closes, don't worry. There is real life after mmos, you know.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Dude, you are one of the most hopeless doomsayers I've ever seen. And it's an achievement, believe me
!
I'v waited for years, to play a Warhammer based MMO. and Mythic just couldnt do good with an amazing IP like that... like seriously.
Waiting Warhammer 40k... atleast THQ always makes an amazing warhammer based games.