Holy Cow! Someone answered the question without mentioning MacDonalds, which I think is the basis for much of the argument of the last few pages. I completely understand what Sid said because he was articulate, to the point and obviously gifted with common sense.
Lol, too right.
As I said earlier, analogies are nonsensical because they simply end in circular arguments (see previous pages as an example). In my opinion, it's just lazy to use anologies in a debate.
I digress though ...
I'm not sure why people would 'hate' any one game really. As to previous players getting bored, etc. I just see that as a natural occurence. At some point I'll get bored with a game and move on. That's not necessarily a reflection of the game though.
In most cases a lot of people dont 'hate' the game. In most cases they hate the flack they get when asked why they don't like the game anymore. No matter their personal reasons for not liking the game (Bored of it, dont like the direction it went, etc) you have quite a few people who attack their reasons and try to point out how 'wrong' those reasons are.
I mean granted there are a lot of Trolls who attack the fans and the games for no other reason then to start a conflict. But many of these people who reply to a thread honestly or make an honest opinion about the game get attacked by rabid fans of the game because their opinion is somehow invalid.
As for analogies, There have been many posts that have stated why just because the game has 11 million players doesnt mean that its the greatest game or one of the highest quality ever made. Sadly these posts are shot down no matter how logical they are. The use of analogies is not being lazy, its more akin to drawing pictures or using hand motions to try to explain a point to someone who has no grasp of what anyone is talking about, or to those who are just playing stupid.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
I don't hate WoW because of some amorphous reason. I hate WoW because they robbed me.
I hate WoW because they invalidated 1 1/2 years of heavy lifting when they released Burning Crusade. In a game about nothing more than advancement, they took away my advancement. No, the storyline wasn't interesting. I got no RP joy. I was there for the artificial sense of accomplishment, which is all they were really selling, and they erased it.
I voted with my sub dollars and bailed when they made the HWL gear available for basically nothing. The game has become more and more accessible since, which is a good and bad thing. I hopped on and leveled to 80 with a DK last year, and geared him up with the dungeon finder tool in a few weeks.
The fun was gone from speccing your toon, though. Everything was homogenized into a couple of builds, courtesy of Elitist Jerks. So, in addition to no lasting accomplishments, you get robbed of the fun of putting together an effective build.
WoW has ruined the potential for variety. No studio in their right mind is going to spend 100 mil on a game that isn't a a wow like themepark.
You're never going to see an SWG again. You may get small studios making sandbox games, but the big boys will never touch them.
That is why I hate wow. It caused the industry to turn away from virtual world games before they got a chance to get it right.
I have to agree.
Let me start by saying I don't hate WoW... I enjoyed my time in game yet I have moved on. The following is what I believe is a reason of the 'hate'.
WoW has set the template on how to make an insane amount of money in an MMO... and every other studio will attempt to stick to the format (with small variations) for their chance at the big bucks..
WoW killed diversity.
Of the flip side WoW brought a lot of attention to MMO's so now there is a lot more money being invested into the industry. A larger MMO market does mean more titles in the future.
I think WoW killing mmorpg diversity was more true in the past then the present. More and more mmorpgs are being developed and being touted as nothing like WoW. Devs in interviews are actually using those words, "We're nothing like WoW.' Whether those games are in fact the polar opposite of WoW is open for debate. I think a lot of gamers see quests, instances, etc., in an mmorpg and immediately shout, "WoW clone" and are being unfair. What devs have to do is learn to be more original and creative while keeping what works well and ignore the fringe hardcore gamers who will never be happy.
Agreed.
Back around the early days of WoW a lot of companies tried the whole 'copy and win' strat, which has thus far proven to be fatal to a game.
Now more companies are trying the 'lets try to be different' approach.
All they need to do is combine this new approach with the 'Lets actually try to make the game ready for people' one and maybe we will see some more winners in teh coming years
But also you are correct on the whole 'I saw something like that in WoW, so that means this game is a Clone' thing. Too many people are quick to slam a game with the WoW clone label because it offers something that WoW has (and most likely borrowed from another game....). "Rabbits?! WoW had Rabbits!! This game is a WoW clone!!" - missing the fact that they are looking at the concept video for the upcoming FPS/Hunting Sim "Wilderness Hunter 17"
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
WoW has ruined the potential for variety. No studio in their right mind is going to spend 100 mil on a game that isn't a a wow like themepark.
You're never going to see an SWG again. You may get small studios making sandbox games, but the big boys will never touch them.
That is why I hate wow. It caused the industry to turn away from virtual world games before they got a chance to get it right.
I have to agree... WoW has set the template on how to make an insane amount of money in an MMO... and every other studio will attempt to stick to the format for their chance at the big bucks..
WoW killed diversity.
....
Two issues here:
1. You could argue (and it has ad nauseum) Blizzard copied existing games, and therefore didn't bring anything new to the market. With that, how can you blame Blizzard for something that it didn't do? and,
2. Don't you think blaming Blizzard for it's success is a bit misguided? Blizzard simply responded to the market.
Not only that, but for myself, i dont care what it supposedly did bring to the industry as far as $ and # of players. For one, it gained millions of WoW players, not players of all MMOs, and if im not in WoW, those millions mean absolutely nothing to me. And it certainly doesnt bring money to anything different from it, it just brings money to the WoW family (WoW being the parents, and then all its cloned offspring trying to be just like it). Just like with the players, if that money isnt into the game im playing, it means nothing to me.
Just look at SW:TOR and its massive budget. If i happen to play it and love it, and stick with it, then that money does good for me, but if i dont like the game and play something else instead, wtf do i care about the fact that they were able to get a $150m budget for it? Cause in my eyes that $150m could have been better spent elsewhere on better games. Sad thing is most people interpret the millions of $ going into gam edevelopment as a good thing, but $ spent making something does not = quality of the finished product. I woul dhav ethought that was something we've all learned over an dover again with things like movies. How many times has there been a movie made with a huge budget that was all hyped up and heralded as the greatest movie ever (usually because the big $ = flashy over the top special effects and famous actors, rathe rthan a truly good story), and then you went to the theatre only to have the desire to walk out on it because it was so terribad..
Holy Cow! Someone answered the question without mentioning MacDonalds, which I think is the basis for much of the argument of the last few pages. I completely understand what Sid said because he was articulate, to the point and obviously gifted with common sense.
Lol, too right.
As I said earlier, analogies are nonsensical because they simply end in circular arguments (see previous pages as an example). In my opinion, it's just lazy to use anologies in a debate.
I digress though ...
I'm not sure why people would 'hate' any one game really. As to previous players getting bored, etc. I just see that as a natural occurence. At some point I'll get bored with a game and move on. That's not necessarily a reflection of the game though.
In most cases a lot of people dont 'hate' the game. In most cases they hate the flack they get when asked why they don't like the game anymore. No matter their personal reasons for not liking the game (Bored of it, dont like the direction it went, etc) you have quite a few people who attack their reasons and try to point out how 'wrong' those reasons are.
I mean granted there are a lot of Trolls who attack the fans and the games for no other reason then to start a conflict. But many of these people who reply to a thread honestly or make an honest opinion about the game get attacked by rabid fans of the game because their opinion is somehow invalid.
As for analogies, There have been many posts that have stated why just because the game has 11 million players doesnt mean that its the greatest game or one of the highest quality ever made. Sadly these posts are shot down no matter how logical they are. The use of analogies is not being lazy, its more akin to drawing pictures or using hand motions to try to explain a point to someone who has no grasp of what anyone is talking about, or to those who are just playing stupid.
I guess everyone sees themselves as the victims of the other side. You feel that any criticism of WoW is met with rabid fanboi attacks while maybe fans of the game are simply responding with their differing opinion. Why get mad when someone likes something you don't? The truth is, most of the WoW threads are started by someone ranting about how WoW sucks, it has destroyed the mmorpg environment, and ruined their lives. That's almost not an exaggeration. Then fans respond with differing opinions. The trick is to keep a thick skin and not take it personally. Remember, you're not always dealing with an adult or even with someone who is necessarily mentally stable.
Holy Cow! Someone answered the question without mentioning MacDonalds, which I think is the basis for much of the argument of the last few pages. I completely understand what Sid said because he was articulate, to the point and obviously gifted with common sense.
Lol, too right.
As I said earlier, analogies are nonsensical because they simply end in circular arguments (see previous pages as an example). In my opinion, it's just lazy to use anologies in a debate.
I digress though ...
I'm not sure why people would 'hate' any one game really. As to previous players getting bored, etc. I just see that as a natural occurence. At some point I'll get bored with a game and move on. That's not necessarily a reflection of the game though.
In most cases a lot of people dont 'hate' the game. In most cases they hate the flack they get when asked why they don't like the game anymore. No matter their personal reasons for not liking the game (Bored of it, dont like the direction it went, etc) you have quite a few people who attack their reasons and try to point out how 'wrong' those reasons are.
I mean granted there are a lot of Trolls who attack the fans and the games for no other reason then to start a conflict. But many of these people who reply to a thread honestly or make an honest opinion about the game get attacked by rabid fans of the game because their opinion is somehow invalid.
As for analogies, There have been many posts that have stated why just because the game has 11 million players doesnt mean that its the greatest game or one of the highest quality ever made. Sadly these posts are shot down no matter how logical they are. The use of analogies is not being lazy, its more akin to drawing pictures or using hand motions to try to explain a point to someone who has no grasp of what anyone is talking about, or to those who are just playing stupid.
I guess everyone sees themselves as the victims of the other side. You feel that any criticism of WoW is met with rabid fanboi attacks while maybe fans of the game are simply responding with their differing opinion. Why get mad when someone likes something you don't? The truth is, most of the WoW threads are started by someone ranting about how WoW sucks, it has destroyed the mmorpg environment, and ruined their lives. That's almost not an exaggeration. Then fans respond with differing opinions. The trick is to keep a thick skin and not take it personally. Remember, you're not always dealing with an adult or even with someone who is necessarily mentally stable.
See thats the thing, I dont get mad when people like something that I dont. What I get mad at is when I see someone attacking someones logic or reasoning with equally bad logic or reasoning. Thats when I get caught up in a debate. I'm not out to prove one side is right over another, I just cant stand to see someone attack someone elses logic as being 'flawed' while using flawed logic themselves to prove the point.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
as a former WoW player the main reason people hate WoW is because of posts by rabid fanboys (like this one) that go out of their way to gloat and to show other gamers that their game sucks and WoW is "the best".
thats why I try to distance myself from the WoW playerbase, because honestly its an embarressment when you see posts like this.
OP you're not doing WoW any favors by trying to prove why people shouldn't hate WOW, and others on this forum aren't doing WoW any favors by gloating or constantly posting WoW subs numbers as to Why its great.
want to stop the WOW hate? stop making stupid posts like this that make all WoW fans look like rabid immature brats.
I agree 100%. I played WoW for just over 2 years, plus I beta tested it. I do not hate the game, it was fun to play for the time I spent in it. Since then I have played just about ever MMO I can get my hands on, trying to find one that I would like to be part of. It is the fan base that goes on to pretty much ever forum and posts how great their game is that got me to dislike WoW. I can remember beta testing LOTRO and seeing posts by WoW fans that stated this game sucks and will never be as good as WoW (in the beta forums). Why in Gods name would you make a post just to say that in a beta? Ever time I saw a instance of this, it made me dislike the WoW fanbase more and more. I can honestly say I will never play another Blizzard game again, because of their rabid fanbase that thinks they are Gods. I do not care that they have millions playing it, if you like that game so much do not beta test other games, and fill the forums with comments like that. Stay in your game and enjoy it, and let the rest of us find something we want to play! I honestly wish on the next MMO I play, that I could do what Jay and Silent Bob does in Jay and Silent BoB Strikes back, to the people that post comments like that on its forums.
WoW has ruined the potential for variety. No studio in their right mind is going to spend 100 mil on a game that isn't a a wow like themepark.
You're never going to see an SWG again. You may get small studios making sandbox games, but the big boys will never touch them.
That is why I hate wow. It caused the industry to turn away from virtual world games before they got a chance to get it right.
I have to agree... WoW has set the template on how to make an insane amount of money in an MMO... and every other studio will attempt to stick to the format for their chance at the big bucks..
WoW killed diversity.
....
Two issues here:
1. You could argue (and it has ad nauseum) Blizzard copied existing games, and therefore didn't bring anything new to the market. With that, how can you blame Blizzard for something that it didn't do? and,
2. Don't you think blaming Blizzard for it's success is a bit misguided? Blizzard simply responded to the market.
1. I agree - Blizzard did not invent the template. I would have to say EQ and UO put MMO's on the map and did most of the growing pains. WoW mopped up and used all the lessons learned to make a great game. I would say the biggest thing that WoW perfected was making the game playable at a casual level thus leading it to the mega-selling game that it is.
2. Again, I agree - Blizzard is probably the most in tune with the majority of players and made a game that a lot of people wanted to play. We hear a lot of the hate on the web and in conversations - yet in most cases people don't randomly post their enjoyment or positive feelings. Ask any customer service person the % of positive feedback compared to the negative; you'll find that positive is a small %. That being said - there might be a lot of hate talk but most people that play or have played WoW don't hate WoW. People show their positive feedback with their wallet.
That being said WoW created a wall for a lot of companies that may have wanted to get a title into the MMO space. The bar was raised and a lot ideas/games were set aside because they had too specific of a market (niche games). I could use the Walmart analogy here but we know where that will lead us.
Again WoW's popularity isn't all bad - EQ and UO may have put MMO's on the map... but WoW made it an attraction drawing millions. Like I said this brings attention and money to the industry via investors.
I personally think WoW in the long run is good for the industry however for the duration of it's reign it suppress a lot of other good stuff thats out there which brought negative backlash from gamers. Other companies will fight harder to put out good games when WoW starts to lose its grip which will be great for players in the end.
honestly its not the game that i hate its the player base... the server (blackrock allince) my friends are on honestly... buch of people i woudl like to say a really bad name right now... d******s c*******ers and the like..
I never really hated WOW but it had some issues. 1 thing I didn't like was how sometimes you would get some level 60-80's coming to starting areas to piss "noobs" off. 2. The Blood Elves. Don't get me wrong the BE kicked ass but they were to non Hord. The Undead had a dark place, The trolls and Orcs had a wasteland and the Tourens had a greeny grass place(I didn't mind that because they are a nature race) but BE have a colourful area and all pretty! Thats not what Hordes about! 3.Why the hell is Horde getting Goblins as a race to play! I can see that, the Goblins fit the Horde but a small race with a bunch of big uglys! The Goblin thing doesn't bother me much but still..... I have many other reasons but other then these 2 or 3(dont care about 3rd) I don't mind WOW. Its a great MMO and Is one of the best around to date.
People aren't so much WOW haters as they are haters of success. Anytime something is very successful people are there to tear it apart. People want things to fail after they had their fun with it.
People aren't so much WOW haters as they are haters of success. Anytime something is very successful people are there to tear it apart. People want things to fail after they had their fun with it.
That's an interesting comment that is probably more true than most realize. How many times have you seen a post that says that they have played WoW for 5+ years, are now utterly bored by it, and this somehow means the game and community instantly suck? Some people just aren't self aware enough or are too immature to understand that just because they are bored with a game it doesn't mean that everyone is bored with it. It also doesn't mean that because they decided to stop playing after 5 years that everyone that still plays the game is a "nub".
I don't play wow anymore for a couple reasons number 1 being you have to pay another 50-60 bucks to buy the new versions [burning crusade, cataclysm or whatever it called] which should just be made patches as its not really much content.Another reason is after burning crusade release the game wasnt the same none of the content has been difficult .
Other than that Its a fun game wouldnt say I hate it at all.I just preferred the original wow.If you played from the release you know the original 40 man raids and pvp was awesome.I played burning crusade awhile but it was boring to me .I mean it was so easy you could pug every instance .you couldnt pug the original 40 man raids.
I dont hate the game thou just looking for more of a challenge
I hate wow for many reasons, but the main one is that they make you pay for every F****ing expansion that they release
SOE and every game does that, Everquest was the worst with 2 expansions a year coming out. The hate here is paid SOE employees whining after their crappy games took the beat down of a lifetime and now are considered crap. I have news for the posters here, Everquest SUCKED and WoW exposed it.
If you have any questions please ask. I have moved on to WoW from eq and no longer have any desire to play a dead game. Thank you. (posted by another selling his account in EQ1)
WoW's visitors to their homepage is declining fast. Its not a subscription based number as most doing go to the site to see news. But on 2/28/2010 the number dropped to 803K. Thats down from 1.3 Million In September 09. Half a million people stopped visiting their site on a monthly basis.
WoW is still leading by far even if you look at other close games using the website visit statistic.
I hate wow for many reasons, but the main one is that they make you pay for every F****ing expansion that they release
SOE and every game does that...
Not true at all. CCP never charges for expansions in EVE online. I play other MMORPGs that also do not charge for expansions.
Broaden your horizons a bit before making statements like that.
At this point it's just obnoxious that Blizzard doens't offer a package deal for their expansions. The game was released in '04 ffs.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
WoW's visitors to their homepage is declining fast. Its not a subscription based number as most doing go to the site to see news. But on 2/28/2010 the number dropped to 803K. Thats down from 1.3 Million In September 09. Half a million people stopped visiting their site on a monthly basis.
WoW is still leading by far even if you look at other close games using the website visit statistic.
WOW - 803k
DDO - 262k
Everquest2 - 147k
LOTRO - 88K
Guild Wars - 87k
City of Heroes - 33.7k
WAR - 24.3
EVE - 16k
DAOC - 14.1k
Fallen Earth 12.5k
Amazing to see how DDO has gone up in those statistics it really shows that the hyrbid freemium/subscription model is the way to go with many mmos . I think WoW is still number one mostly by default . Although some of the other games you list here are great they either lack interesting pve or pvp content or are the type of game that appeals to a niche market .
Warcraft is no longer the game it once was and many players I know that still play are hoping the emphasis of the gameplay will shift back with Cataclysm to questing and get people out of the instances ,arenas and battlegrounds . But that simply isn't going to happen while the cross server looking for a group system teleports people into the instances without haveing to travel to them or while the battlegrounds give out xp . Although there is an expansive world out there very few players use it in the way they did 5 years ago . Hence the huge numbers of people posting complaints about Blizzard taking the World out of World of Warcraft .
Once that dawns on the millions still playing and they get fed up with one similar raid or battleground after another I think they will realise that although WoW is fun for short periods its now essentially a very boring and repetative game which lacks the atmosphere it once had . It still does need another game to challenge it and I can't see that happening this year . 2011 on the otherhand has a whole bunch of new releases all of which have the potential at least to do so.
As a few had mentioned, people hate WoW because they need something to loathe. They also happen to be the ones who will consistantly go onto the forums and trash talk it as well because they can.
Personally, WoW did not destroy SWG. I did a trial of SWG just a month ago to see what was new. Then I was reminded of why I left. It was not what the devs turned the game into, it was the lack of a decent player population. Some may say what the game had become was why everyone left, but that was not my reason. SWG was the first MMO I ever purchased. If they were able to somehow bring the population back, I would definitely start playing again, even wih SW:TOR on the horizon.
I started playing WoW around 5 or 6 months after it's release on a friend's recommendation. I really had no interest in WoW, heck I could not get into Warcraft 3 all that much, but I decided to try it out (since everyone had or was in the process of leaving SWG).
I am still playing WoW to this day. I may take a few weeks off here and there, but I feel to just stop playing altogether would have been a waste of all the years I spent grinding, getting gear, and clicking "release spirit".
As for the global channels, I still say getting whispered frequently by gold sellers is worse. Yes, I know. Click "ignore" and "report spam". That still doesn't stop them. They just make a new character and do it again.
So do I hate WoW? No. It is a very enjoyable game and I feel I get my money's worth from it. Will it eventually die out? Yes, doesn't everything? Nothing is forever.
As a few had mentioned, people hate WoW because they need something to loathe. They also happen to be the ones who will consistantly go onto the forums and trash talk it as well because they can.
Personally, WoW did not destroy SWG. I did a trial of SWG just a month ago to see what was new. Then I was reminded of why I left. It was not what the devs turned the game into, it was the lack of a decent player population. Some may say what the game had become was why everyone left, but that was not my reason. SWG was the first MMO I ever purchased. If they were able to somehow bring the population back, I would definitely start playing again, even wih SW:TOR on the horizon.
I started playing WoW around 5 or 6 months after it's release on a friend's recommendation. I really had no interest in WoW, heck I could not get into Warcraft 3 all that much, but I decided to try it out (since everyone had or was in the process of leaving SWG).
I am still playing WoW to this day. I may take a few weeks off here and there, but I feel to just stop playing altogether would have been a waste of all the years I spent grinding, getting gear, and clicking "release spirit".
As for the global channels, I still say getting whispered frequently by gold sellers is worse. Yes, I know. Click "ignore" and "report spam". That still doesn't stop them. They just make a new character and do it again.
So do I hate WoW? No. It is a very enjoyable game and I feel I get my money's worth from it. Will it eventually die out? Yes, doesn't everything? Nothing is forever.
I did the same thing for many years I really did'nt want the time I had spent to have been wasted . But when I rolled an alt last time I realised what would have taken maybe 6 months once to a achieve meaning reaching max level and half decent gear in a matter of a few weeks I realised even if i deleted my characters and returned with new ones it would take me no time at all to get back to where I once was . It was at that moment I could'nt see the point in ever playing again .
I don't hate WoW.. infact for a new MMO player that has never played a mmo before or just someone looking to play for the first time.. WoW is a great game, like many out there.. However, WoW is probably more casual friendly then most, and Blizzard definitely holds your hand thru questing and leveling..
Problem I have at my stage of the game (more then 4 years) is that WoW starts off as a themepark.. OK I can deal with themepark, there are a variety of rides, place to go and things to eat.. etc etc.. But it doesn't take long to realize that once you hit "end game" as they call it, it's no longer a themepark, it's a raid.. You only have 1 ride to play on.. only 1 food (streudel) to eat.. and if you are super bored and don't feel like getting into the smack chat channel, you can do a handful of dailies ZZZzzzz
Get the idea?
PS.. I have over 20 toons on multiple servers, 6 of them being 80's in T9s.. I have no desire to re-enter the park all over again for the 30th time wearing new clothes and pretend to be in awe.. In other words.. either add 20 more new end game zones with a variety of goals and task to do.. add more classes (plural) and more profs (plural.. woodworking comes to mind) etc etc.. I'm pretty much done with chasing the carrot bs..
WoW reminds me of my childhood where a tall adult is holding what you want above your head, each time you jump for it , they lift it higher.. really? Is that fun? honestly?
People don't really hate WoW, the problem is that when WoW started it was a great game!
However, WoW brought MMO's to the masses whereas before we were all just a bunch of geeks (playing Lineage, SWG, Legend of Mir, Soma etc.) with our own little worlds to play in that the majority of the public didn't understand, Then suddenly the world takes notice of MMO's and this annoyed many of us.
WoW was good up until "The Burning Crusade" appeared and negated all our hard work gaining items from MC and BWl by letting us get items better than what we had on the first new bloody quest!
Then we had all the "Noobs" starting of characters and getting them to level 60 in a few days hence unbalancing the gameplay and causing many of the original players (like myself) to go and find something new.
But there really wasn't anything that had the scope of WoW on the horizon, Sure many tried such as Lotro, Conan and Warhammer but none really grabbed us like WoW did.
That is why so many people hate WoW, because it took away a good game and made it a public game that 10 million noobs are currently playing, while we all wait on the sidelines for something truely great to appear again.....
The amount of people who play WoW is a stupid argument to use because popularity does not mean quality.
Yeah it does.
Word of mouth is what got WoW 11 million subs.
If your game was good, word of mouth would get it 11 million subs.
The Internet spreads information or word of mouth quickly and efficiently these days. People hear about a game from an aquaintance, they try it and decide for themselves. It's a popularity contest with everyone voting.
If a better game than WoW appears, word of mouth will get it millions of subs and like in a week.
Unless you are saying 11 million WoW players are stupid? If you want to feel 1337, you would naturally look down on something the masses like.
No it doesn't. How many people in your high school were popular? Then you find out that they worked at walmart making 8 bucks an hour 10 years later? I thought WAR was better than WoW when it was launched and I think it still is. Does it make it so? Does it make 11 million subscriptions? No. WoW already had a foothold. I might think the computer store down the street is better than Geek Squad at Best Buy. Does that make more customers go there? No it really doesn't.
The masses like it because it's easy and because their friends play it. Which is fine I suppose, but you are still incorrect in my opinion.
Comments
In most cases a lot of people dont 'hate' the game. In most cases they hate the flack they get when asked why they don't like the game anymore. No matter their personal reasons for not liking the game (Bored of it, dont like the direction it went, etc) you have quite a few people who attack their reasons and try to point out how 'wrong' those reasons are.
I mean granted there are a lot of Trolls who attack the fans and the games for no other reason then to start a conflict. But many of these people who reply to a thread honestly or make an honest opinion about the game get attacked by rabid fans of the game because their opinion is somehow invalid.
As for analogies, There have been many posts that have stated why just because the game has 11 million players doesnt mean that its the greatest game or one of the highest quality ever made. Sadly these posts are shot down no matter how logical they are. The use of analogies is not being lazy, its more akin to drawing pictures or using hand motions to try to explain a point to someone who has no grasp of what anyone is talking about, or to those who are just playing stupid.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
QR
I don't hate WoW because of some amorphous reason. I hate WoW because they robbed me.
I hate WoW because they invalidated 1 1/2 years of heavy lifting when they released Burning Crusade. In a game about nothing more than advancement, they took away my advancement. No, the storyline wasn't interesting. I got no RP joy. I was there for the artificial sense of accomplishment, which is all they were really selling, and they erased it.
I voted with my sub dollars and bailed when they made the HWL gear available for basically nothing. The game has become more and more accessible since, which is a good and bad thing. I hopped on and leveled to 80 with a DK last year, and geared him up with the dungeon finder tool in a few weeks.
The fun was gone from speccing your toon, though. Everything was homogenized into a couple of builds, courtesy of Elitist Jerks. So, in addition to no lasting accomplishments, you get robbed of the fun of putting together an effective build.
Bah, waste of time and money.
Agreed.
Back around the early days of WoW a lot of companies tried the whole 'copy and win' strat, which has thus far proven to be fatal to a game.
Now more companies are trying the 'lets try to be different' approach.
All they need to do is combine this new approach with the 'Lets actually try to make the game ready for people' one and maybe we will see some more winners in teh coming years
But also you are correct on the whole 'I saw something like that in WoW, so that means this game is a Clone' thing. Too many people are quick to slam a game with the WoW clone label because it offers something that WoW has (and most likely borrowed from another game....). "Rabbits?! WoW had Rabbits!! This game is a WoW clone!!" - missing the fact that they are looking at the concept video for the upcoming FPS/Hunting Sim "Wilderness Hunter 17"
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Not only that, but for myself, i dont care what it supposedly did bring to the industry as far as $ and # of players. For one, it gained millions of WoW players, not players of all MMOs, and if im not in WoW, those millions mean absolutely nothing to me. And it certainly doesnt bring money to anything different from it, it just brings money to the WoW family (WoW being the parents, and then all its cloned offspring trying to be just like it). Just like with the players, if that money isnt into the game im playing, it means nothing to me.
Just look at SW:TOR and its massive budget. If i happen to play it and love it, and stick with it, then that money does good for me, but if i dont like the game and play something else instead, wtf do i care about the fact that they were able to get a $150m budget for it? Cause in my eyes that $150m could have been better spent elsewhere on better games. Sad thing is most people interpret the millions of $ going into gam edevelopment as a good thing, but $ spent making something does not = quality of the finished product. I woul dhav ethought that was something we've all learned over an dover again with things like movies. How many times has there been a movie made with a huge budget that was all hyped up and heralded as the greatest movie ever (usually because the big $ = flashy over the top special effects and famous actors, rathe rthan a truly good story), and then you went to the theatre only to have the desire to walk out on it because it was so terribad..
I guess everyone sees themselves as the victims of the other side. You feel that any criticism of WoW is met with rabid fanboi attacks while maybe fans of the game are simply responding with their differing opinion. Why get mad when someone likes something you don't? The truth is, most of the WoW threads are started by someone ranting about how WoW sucks, it has destroyed the mmorpg environment, and ruined their lives. That's almost not an exaggeration. Then fans respond with differing opinions. The trick is to keep a thick skin and not take it personally. Remember, you're not always dealing with an adult or even with someone who is necessarily mentally stable.
See thats the thing, I dont get mad when people like something that I dont. What I get mad at is when I see someone attacking someones logic or reasoning with equally bad logic or reasoning. Thats when I get caught up in a debate. I'm not out to prove one side is right over another, I just cant stand to see someone attack someone elses logic as being 'flawed' while using flawed logic themselves to prove the point.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
I agree 100%. I played WoW for just over 2 years, plus I beta tested it. I do not hate the game, it was fun to play for the time I spent in it. Since then I have played just about ever MMO I can get my hands on, trying to find one that I would like to be part of. It is the fan base that goes on to pretty much ever forum and posts how great their game is that got me to dislike WoW. I can remember beta testing LOTRO and seeing posts by WoW fans that stated this game sucks and will never be as good as WoW (in the beta forums). Why in Gods name would you make a post just to say that in a beta? Ever time I saw a instance of this, it made me dislike the WoW fanbase more and more. I can honestly say I will never play another Blizzard game again, because of their rabid fanbase that thinks they are Gods. I do not care that they have millions playing it, if you like that game so much do not beta test other games, and fill the forums with comments like that. Stay in your game and enjoy it, and let the rest of us find something we want to play! I honestly wish on the next MMO I play, that I could do what Jay and Silent Bob does in Jay and Silent BoB Strikes back, to the people that post comments like that on its forums.
Sorry but those people just piss me off
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1. I agree - Blizzard did not invent the template. I would have to say EQ and UO put MMO's on the map and did most of the growing pains. WoW mopped up and used all the lessons learned to make a great game. I would say the biggest thing that WoW perfected was making the game playable at a casual level thus leading it to the mega-selling game that it is.
2. Again, I agree - Blizzard is probably the most in tune with the majority of players and made a game that a lot of people wanted to play. We hear a lot of the hate on the web and in conversations - yet in most cases people don't randomly post their enjoyment or positive feelings. Ask any customer service person the % of positive feedback compared to the negative; you'll find that positive is a small %. That being said - there might be a lot of hate talk but most people that play or have played WoW don't hate WoW. People show their positive feedback with their wallet.
That being said WoW created a wall for a lot of companies that may have wanted to get a title into the MMO space. The bar was raised and a lot ideas/games were set aside because they had too specific of a market (niche games). I could use the Walmart analogy here but we know where that will lead us.
Again WoW's popularity isn't all bad - EQ and UO may have put MMO's on the map... but WoW made it an attraction drawing millions. Like I said this brings attention and money to the industry via investors.
I personally think WoW in the long run is good for the industry however for the duration of it's reign it suppress a lot of other good stuff thats out there which brought negative backlash from gamers. Other companies will fight harder to put out good games when WoW starts to lose its grip which will be great for players in the end.
https://www.youtube.com/user/NemsGaming
Damn.. wrong forum! Anyone know where this revolution of MMO's is going on? I heard it's Dark... something? Anyone?
R.I.P Chikaca Whachuchu
honestly its not the game that i hate its the player base... the server (blackrock allince) my friends are on honestly... buch of people i woudl like to say a really bad name right now... d******s c*******ers and the like..
I never really hated WOW but it had some issues. 1 thing I didn't like was how sometimes you would get some level 60-80's coming to starting areas to piss "noobs" off. 2. The Blood Elves. Don't get me wrong the BE kicked ass but they were to non Hord. The Undead had a dark place, The trolls and Orcs had a wasteland and the Tourens had a greeny grass place(I didn't mind that because they are a nature race) but BE have a colourful area and all pretty! Thats not what Hordes about! 3.Why the hell is Horde getting Goblins as a race to play! I can see that, the Goblins fit the Horde but a small race with a bunch of big uglys! The Goblin thing doesn't bother me much but still..... I have many other reasons but other then these 2 or 3(dont care about 3rd) I don't mind WOW. Its a great MMO and Is one of the best around to date.
Time to kick some MMO!
People aren't so much WOW haters as they are haters of success. Anytime something is very successful people are there to tear it apart. People want things to fail after they had their fun with it.
That's an interesting comment that is probably more true than most realize. How many times have you seen a post that says that they have played WoW for 5+ years, are now utterly bored by it, and this somehow means the game and community instantly suck? Some people just aren't self aware enough or are too immature to understand that just because they are bored with a game it doesn't mean that everyone is bored with it. It also doesn't mean that because they decided to stop playing after 5 years that everyone that still plays the game is a "nub".
I don't play wow anymore for a couple reasons number 1 being you have to pay another 50-60 bucks to buy the new versions [burning crusade, cataclysm or whatever it called] which should just be made patches as its not really much content.Another reason is after burning crusade release the game wasnt the same none of the content has been difficult .
Other than that Its a fun game wouldnt say I hate it at all.I just preferred the original wow.If you played from the release you know the original 40 man raids and pvp was awesome.I played burning crusade awhile but it was boring to me .I mean it was so easy you could pug every instance .you couldnt pug the original 40 man raids.
I dont hate the game thou just looking for more of a challenge
I hate wow for many reasons, but the main one is that they make you pay for every F****ing expansion that they release
SOE and every game does that, Everquest was the worst with 2 expansions a year coming out. The hate here is paid SOE employees whining after their crappy games took the beat down of a lifetime and now are considered crap. I have news for the posters here, Everquest SUCKED and WoW exposed it.
If you have any questions please ask. I have moved on to WoW from eq and no longer have any desire to play a dead game. Thank you. (posted by another selling his account in EQ1)
WoW's visitors to their homepage is declining fast. Its not a subscription based number as most doing go to the site to see news. But on 2/28/2010 the number dropped to 803K. Thats down from 1.3 Million In September 09. Half a million people stopped visiting their site on a monthly basis.
WoW is still leading by far even if you look at other close games using the website visit statistic.
WOW - 803k
DDO - 262k
Everquest2 - 147k
LOTRO - 88K
Guild Wars - 87k
City of Heroes - 33.7k
WAR - 24.3
EVE - 16k
DAOC - 14.1k
Fallen Earth 12.5k
Not true at all. CCP never charges for expansions in EVE online. I play other MMORPGs that also do not charge for expansions.
Broaden your horizons a bit before making statements like that.
At this point it's just obnoxious that Blizzard doens't offer a package deal for their expansions. The game was released in '04 ffs.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Amazing to see how DDO has gone up in those statistics it really shows that the hyrbid freemium/subscription model is the way to go with many mmos . I think WoW is still number one mostly by default . Although some of the other games you list here are great they either lack interesting pve or pvp content or are the type of game that appeals to a niche market .
Warcraft is no longer the game it once was and many players I know that still play are hoping the emphasis of the gameplay will shift back with Cataclysm to questing and get people out of the instances ,arenas and battlegrounds . But that simply isn't going to happen while the cross server looking for a group system teleports people into the instances without haveing to travel to them or while the battlegrounds give out xp . Although there is an expansive world out there very few players use it in the way they did 5 years ago . Hence the huge numbers of people posting complaints about Blizzard taking the World out of World of Warcraft .
Once that dawns on the millions still playing and they get fed up with one similar raid or battleground after another I think they will realise that although WoW is fun for short periods its now essentially a very boring and repetative game which lacks the atmosphere it once had . It still does need another game to challenge it and I can't see that happening this year . 2011 on the otherhand has a whole bunch of new releases all of which have the potential at least to do so.
As a few had mentioned, people hate WoW because they need something to loathe. They also happen to be the ones who will consistantly go onto the forums and trash talk it as well because they can.
Personally, WoW did not destroy SWG. I did a trial of SWG just a month ago to see what was new. Then I was reminded of why I left. It was not what the devs turned the game into, it was the lack of a decent player population. Some may say what the game had become was why everyone left, but that was not my reason. SWG was the first MMO I ever purchased. If they were able to somehow bring the population back, I would definitely start playing again, even wih SW:TOR on the horizon.
I started playing WoW around 5 or 6 months after it's release on a friend's recommendation. I really had no interest in WoW, heck I could not get into Warcraft 3 all that much, but I decided to try it out (since everyone had or was in the process of leaving SWG).
I am still playing WoW to this day. I may take a few weeks off here and there, but I feel to just stop playing altogether would have been a waste of all the years I spent grinding, getting gear, and clicking "release spirit".
As for the global channels, I still say getting whispered frequently by gold sellers is worse. Yes, I know. Click "ignore" and "report spam". That still doesn't stop them. They just make a new character and do it again.
So do I hate WoW? No. It is a very enjoyable game and I feel I get my money's worth from it. Will it eventually die out? Yes, doesn't everything? Nothing is forever.
I did the same thing for many years I really did'nt want the time I had spent to have been wasted . But when I rolled an alt last time I realised what would have taken maybe 6 months once to a achieve meaning reaching max level and half decent gear in a matter of a few weeks I realised even if i deleted my characters and returned with new ones it would take me no time at all to get back to where I once was . It was at that moment I could'nt see the point in ever playing again .
I don't hate WoW.. infact for a new MMO player that has never played a mmo before or just someone looking to play for the first time.. WoW is a great game, like many out there.. However, WoW is probably more casual friendly then most, and Blizzard definitely holds your hand thru questing and leveling..
Problem I have at my stage of the game (more then 4 years) is that WoW starts off as a themepark.. OK I can deal with themepark, there are a variety of rides, place to go and things to eat.. etc etc.. But it doesn't take long to realize that once you hit "end game" as they call it, it's no longer a themepark, it's a raid.. You only have 1 ride to play on.. only 1 food (streudel) to eat.. and if you are super bored and don't feel like getting into the smack chat channel, you can do a handful of dailies ZZZzzzz
Get the idea?
PS.. I have over 20 toons on multiple servers, 6 of them being 80's in T9s.. I have no desire to re-enter the park all over again for the 30th time wearing new clothes and pretend to be in awe.. In other words.. either add 20 more new end game zones with a variety of goals and task to do.. add more classes (plural) and more profs (plural.. woodworking comes to mind) etc etc.. I'm pretty much done with chasing the carrot bs..
WoW reminds me of my childhood where a tall adult is holding what you want above your head, each time you jump for it , they lift it higher.. really? Is that fun? honestly?
To put this simply.
People don't really hate WoW, the problem is that when WoW started it was a great game!
However, WoW brought MMO's to the masses whereas before we were all just a bunch of geeks (playing Lineage, SWG, Legend of Mir, Soma etc.) with our own little worlds to play in that the majority of the public didn't understand, Then suddenly the world takes notice of MMO's and this annoyed many of us.
WoW was good up until "The Burning Crusade" appeared and negated all our hard work gaining items from MC and BWl by letting us get items better than what we had on the first new bloody quest!
Then we had all the "Noobs" starting of characters and getting them to level 60 in a few days hence unbalancing the gameplay and causing many of the original players (like myself) to go and find something new.
But there really wasn't anything that had the scope of WoW on the horizon, Sure many tried such as Lotro, Conan and Warhammer but none really grabbed us like WoW did.
That is why so many people hate WoW, because it took away a good game and made it a public game that 10 million noobs are currently playing, while we all wait on the sidelines for something truely great to appear again.....
No it doesn't. How many people in your high school were popular? Then you find out that they worked at walmart making 8 bucks an hour 10 years later? I thought WAR was better than WoW when it was launched and I think it still is. Does it make it so? Does it make 11 million subscriptions? No. WoW already had a foothold. I might think the computer store down the street is better than Geek Squad at Best Buy. Does that make more customers go there? No it really doesn't.
The masses like it because it's easy and because their friends play it. Which is fine I suppose, but you are still incorrect in my opinion.
Why do we hate WoW?
Same reason kid's love apple jacks.
We just do ok?