6) PEOPLE HATE WoW BECAUSE YOU FAINBOI'S MADE THEM! We pre WoW mmo players know what a good mmo is, and what we want to see. But im sure its alot more of you WoW players than us older players, thus you guys post in every new mmo forum trying to get them to make it as cookie cutter and as easy as WoW. this makes us hate that damn game even more.
for those reasons, this is why games like FFXI, are gems! they have nothing to do with WoW.
p.s when i say fanboi's, im refering to people who are so in love with WoW, that they see nothing wrong with it, defend it to the teeth, and want everything else to be similar if not exactly like wow. instances,factions,talent tree, mounts, etc. these are what i call fanboi's. i find funny that they love wow so much, yet they have time to post in other game forums. why look at other games if your so happy with wow?
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
for those reasons, this is why games like FFXI, are gems! they have nothing to do with WoW.
Did FFXI lose a lot of players to WoW in 11/2004?
i dont know in all honesty. ffxi is the type of game that you take many breaks from peridoically lol.
i was stating that i still enjoy ffxi because its nothing like WoW. alot of other games i play remind me of WoW to much, and that turns me off to them.
for those reasons, this is why games like FFXI, are gems! they have nothing to do with WoW.
Did FFXI lose a lot of players to WoW in 11/2004?
i dont know in all honesty. ffxi is the type of game that you take many breaks from peridoically lol.
i was stating that i still enjoy ffxi because its nothing like WoW. alot of other games i play remind me of WoW to much, and that turns me off to them.
Yah, FFXI actually lost enough players to WoW to become unprofitable.
Yah, FFXI actually lost enough players to WoW to become unprofitable.
Eh? Ehm... FFXI is still around and being played, you know. At least, i thought I saw some FFXI related news on some of the forums lately, so I'm guessing it's still around and in the air.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
People hate WoW because it's the cool thing to do.
No matter how popular something is there are always other people who will hate it just because it's popular. These people all without fail play some less popular MMO and think themselves better than those 'WoW players'. This doesn't apply to just games it works tihs way with anything. Music, movies, books, sports, anything that someone enjoys there will always be someone who doesn't and has nothing better to do than tell you all about why they don't.
Who cares. Play the game you enjoy regardless of what everyone else says. It's especially laughable if you haven't even tried something yet you bash it, you just take the word of other people and don't think for yourself.
SOE killed SWG. The game was buggy and far from finished at release. WoW was just something new to jump ship from. SOE dumbly thought players wanted a game more like wow. I loved SWG to death but an idiot could list a million problems with the game.
Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.
This topic again. Oh well, might has well jump in with both feet.
I don't hate video games, I hate the fact that once the game became so popular it pretty much killed original thnking for most development teams and they all thought they had to copy WOW to get a piece of their success.
We haven't seen much originality in game design in the past 5 years from the major houses, and even some indie dev's have gone so far as to try and make vritual clones of Blizzards game.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
for those reasons, this is why games like FFXI, are gems! they have nothing to do with WoW.
Did FFXI lose a lot of players to WoW in 11/2004?
i dont know in all honesty. ffxi is the type of game that you take many breaks from peridoically lol.
i was stating that i still enjoy ffxi because its nothing like WoW. alot of other games i play remind me of WoW to much, and that turns me off to them.
Yah, FFXI actually lost enough players to WoW to become unprofitable.
umm ffxi just released news recently that it had 2million active subscribers. i hardly call that unprofitable. thats still about 26million a month before fee's are taken out.
for those reasons, this is why games like FFXI, are gems! they have nothing to do with WoW.
Did FFXI lose a lot of players to WoW in 11/2004?
i dont know in all honesty. ffxi is the type of game that you take many breaks from peridoically lol.
i was stating that i still enjoy ffxi because its nothing like WoW. alot of other games i play remind me of WoW to much, and that turns me off to them.
Yah, FFXI actually lost enough players to WoW to become unprofitable.
umm ffxi just released news recently that it had 2million active subscribers. i hardly call that unprofitable. thats still about 26million a month before fee's are taken out.
I vote that a compilation post be made with all the major highlights posted in former threads with the same subject, and then copy pasted every time a new thread about 'Why WoW hatred?' appears.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Nice OP and a fairly reasonable assessment of why WOW generates so much hate.
I have a few more...
1/ Crass elitism from so-called sandbox, old-school or hardcore players with serious delusions of grandeur
Now most sandboxers and old-schoolers and hardcore players on these forums are cool and balanced and write ace posts and that's why I like this website. But there is a segment that thinks the games people play reflect real-world intelligence and cultural taste. I have lost count of the number of times that such people on these forums have insulted ALL WOW or themepark gamers as dumb, immature, childish, or having "the intellects of earthworms" as one chap put it. I have also seen one chap ridiculously equate good and bad taste in movies to one's taste in sandbox (good) or themepark (bad) games: according to him, sandboxers like indie movies like "Moon" while themeparkers like "Transformers 2"; lol what a complete imbecile that dude was.
Now the reason they cling to this elitist mantra is because:
(a) Ironically, given their claim of superior intelligence, they are not very smart and have malfunctioning logic circuits
(b) It must feel nice being a self-elected, self-superior member of the elite surrouned by a backslapping, high-fiving clique of like-minded genuises. They are like that Professor in Joyce's Ulysses whose lawnmower makes the sound "cleverclevercleverclever".
(c) They are frustrated about the lack of sandbox mmorpgs to suit their preferences, which is perfectly reasonable and understandable, but then unreasonably attack everyone else who is actually enjoying a successful mmorpg (which is usually themepark and WOW-like) like some bitter kid who feels left out.
2/ The belief that WOW has had and will continue to have a negative effect on the mmorpg genre as a whole
This, it seems to me, is a reasonable concern and does have some validity. WOW has been so successful that it has led to themepark games dominating the mmorpg genre. Even when a post-WOW game is released with a different overall direction from WOW, you tend to find features common to WOW being incorprorated into those same games.
The same happens with the Hollywood movie industry. Hollywood is caught between two conflicting urges: minimizing risk and thus churning out the same old tired formula because thisguarantees a degree of success and return on their investment, while at the same time taking an occasional risk on new or original formulas because they need some edge to get ahead of their rivals and stay fresh. This is why most Hollywood releases are formulaic deja-vu inducing piles of crap to anyone that isn't totally new to cinema, and yet occasionally they release a movie by a more original director who is allowed to take more risks by the studio and we get stuff like Dark Knight etc. Since mmorpgs take longer to make than movies and since there are less mmorpgs released per year than movies, we may have to wait a lot longer for our mmorpg equivalents to The Dark Knight.
So I dunno if this Hollywood analogy holds true for mmorpgs, but if it does I can see why WOW gets hated as the mold for relatively risk-free development. Until this mold gets broken, the hate will probably continue. I am thoroughly bored of the WOW mold now so I feel this frustration a wee bit, too.
3/ The average age of mmorpg players means that many old-schoolers have become casual gamers
Some of the features demanded by sandboxers are not exactly casual friendly and this is often mentioned as a point of pride for sandboxers. Now I used to be a hardcore gamer and otaku, spending most of my hours reading comics, watching/reading SF, horror and fantasy, playing PC games and mmorpgs and generally being selfish and self-absorbed; those were great times but they couldn't last. On hitting my 30s my real-life responsibilties and commitments (marriage, family, work) became considerably more pronounced and now I am casual in all of my old obsessions and hobbies. I just have less time to commit to my self and that's just part of getting older. Maybe when I retire I can become hardcore again lol.
Now according to some figures the average mmorpg player is around 26 yrs old, 50% of mmorpg players work full-time, 36% are married and 22% have kids. Trust me, every year beyond 26 gets more real-world demanding, especially post-30s and even more-so if your work responsibilities increase as you get older (i.e. promotion). So I reckon that many old-school and hardcore gamers have become more casual, thus further reducing the amount of gamers who are prepared to support a hardcore sandbox game.
It must be frustrating being a member of a shrinking minority of old-school and hardcore gamers because no big-budget mmorpg is gonna take a financial risk on your minority preferences.
When you're frustrated you tend to hate and rant more. WOW is the obvious target.
If you could have a sandbox model that appealed to casual gamers this could change, but most of the sandbox features beloved of hardcore gamers are not forgiving of casual gamers. WOW is casual friendly so the mold remains unbroken.
as a former WoW player the main reason people hate WoW is because of posts by rabid fanboys (like this one) that go out of their way to gloat and to show other gamers that their game sucks and WoW is "the best".
thats why I try to distance myself from the WoW playerbase, because honestly its an embarressment when you see posts like this.
OP you're not doing WoW any favors by trying to prove why people shouldn't hate WOW, and others on this forum aren't doing WoW any favors by gloating or constantly posting WoW subs numbers as to Why its great.
want to stop the WOW hate? stop making stupid posts like this that make all WoW fans look like rabid immature brats.
i played for over 3 years and enjoyed most of it but the game has now changed so much and i just cant be bothered with it, they is nothing new even if they add new content its still the same old wash, rinse and repeat, a lot dont hate wow they just get to a point where they realise they are better games or better things to do with your time.
Playing: FFXIV Future: wishing for SWG 2, World of Warcraft Classic Played: Most current and extinct MMO's - 18 Years in....
Nice OP and a fairly reasonable assessment of why WOW generates so much hate.
I have a few more...
1/ Crass elitism from so-called sandbox, old-school or hardcore players with serious delusions of grandeur
Now most sandboxers and old-schoolers and hardcore players on these forums are cool and balanced and write ace posts and that's why I like this website. But there is a segment that thinks the games people play reflect real-world intelligence and cultural taste. I have lost count of the number of times that such people on these forums have insulted ALL WOW or themepark gamers as dumb, immature, childish, or having "the intellects of earthworms" as one chap put it. I have also seen one chap ridiculously equate good and bad taste in movies to one's taste in sandbox (good) or themepark (bad) games: according to him, sandboxers like indie movies like "Moon" while themeparkers like "Transformers 2"; lol what a complete imbecile that dude was.
Now the reason they cling to this elitist mantra is because:
(a) Ironically, given their claim of superior intelligence, they are not very smart and have malfunctioning logic circuits
(b) It must feel nice being a self-elected, self-superior member of the elite surrouned by a backslapping, high-fiving clique of like-minded genuises. They are like that Professor in Joyce's Ulysses whose lawnmower makes the sound "cleverclevercleverclever".
(c) They are frustrated about the lack of sandbox mmorpgs to suit their preferences, which is perfectly reasonable and understandable, but then unreasonably attack everyone else who is actually enjoying a succesful mmorpg (which is usually themepark) like some bitter kid who feels left out
Now, now, you make an interesting point about generalisations, but then you devalue your statement by falling into that trap yourself. Tsk, tsk.
Unless it was done on purpose and the summation is self ironic
For the rest, interesting post, and I can clearly see the resemblance of how game companies might go for the safe, formulaic route just as movie and tv companies might do it. Doesn't make me happy though, but that's business.
I'd like to compare it with music companies as well, first you have a popular emerging trend like rock 'n roll, punk or house, then you have whole hordes of music companies who jump on the bandwagon not as much out of love for the trend but because they smell money, and the trend becomes mainstream after which the early adapters scorn most music and bands of that former-emerging-but-now-mainstream trend for being sellouts, and the genre having lost its edges, most of the music that's being released in that music genre now being 'commercial' and mainstream'.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
for those reasons, this is why games like FFXI, are gems! they have nothing to do with WoW.
Did FFXI lose a lot of players to WoW in 11/2004?
i dont know in all honesty. ffxi is the type of game that you take many breaks from peridoically lol.
i was stating that i still enjoy ffxi because its nothing like WoW. alot of other games i play remind me of WoW to much, and that turns me off to them.
Yah, FFXI actually lost enough players to WoW to become unprofitable.
umm ffxi just released news recently that it had 2million active subscribers. i hardly call that unprofitable. thats still about 26million a month before fee's are taken out.
You have a link with that figure, because a few years back they were at 600K and I can't imagine that sub numbers have been going up since then.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
for those reasons, this is why games like FFXI, are gems! they have nothing to do with WoW.
Did FFXI lose a lot of players to WoW in 11/2004?
i dont know in all honesty. ffxi is the type of game that you take many breaks from peridoically lol.
i was stating that i still enjoy ffxi because its nothing like WoW. alot of other games i play remind me of WoW to much, and that turns me off to them.
Yah, FFXI actually lost enough players to WoW to become unprofitable.
umm ffxi just released news recently that it had 2million active subscribers. i hardly call that unprofitable. thats still about 26million a month before fee's are taken out.
i dont know where this was created but i dont trust it. what source is it from? i need more info on where it came from to believe it.
this is the statement SE released last year in april.
Vana'dielian Population Tops Two Million! (04/22/2009)
It is our distinct pleasure to announce that during the third week of April, the total number of active characters across all worlds in FINAL FANTASY XI has exceeded the two million mark for the first time!
Since the commencement of service on May 16th, 2002, Vana'diel has gone on to become a vibrant gathering place for adventurers hailing from all corners of the globe. Boasting four expansions and one add-on scenario with two more in the pipes, FINAL FANTASY XI continues to evolve into an ever richer realm of magic and adventure.
We would like to thank you, our fans, for your loyal patronage over the years, and look forward to your continued support for many more to come.
Wikipedia says this: "As of 2008, in an announcement for three additional expansions in development, SE noted Final Fantasy XI still has a strong user base of around 500,000 subscribers. In April 2009, Square Enix announced that the total number of active characters exceeded 2 million for the first time in game history."
References to those quotes can be looked up on that wikipedia page, if wanted.
I don't know how active characters should be interpreted, but i think it's safe to say that FFXI is still around and doing ok for now
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
This one is simple and I have been saying it for years.
Most people hate WoW because it became so popular that it became...*shrieks in horror*...mainstream.
People LOVE to hate things that are mainstream. It makes them feel more evolved, special, and cool. It's like I have some friends that don't think ANY chain restaurant is a good restaurant. It has to be some one off place in an artsy part of town before they consider it a good restaurant. This kind of stuff is never going to change, people have been doing it with music, etc forever.
It's snobbish really.
People have the right to hate games, that's fine. I just wish they would shut up about it. If you don't like a game..don't play it. I just don't want to hear about how it sucks on a daily basis. That goes for any game to me, not just WoW..don't like DarkFall..fine..don't play it. People have different tastes and I think it's good for all gamers to have variety out there.
I don't hate WoW. I hate what the industry become because of WoW.
Im my opinion, it turned the industry into a mass-market, simplistic, profit-oriented industry to grab the mnost cash as possible at the expense of fun and innovation.
WoW itself is not a bad game. It has a target audience just like every single product that ever came to market in any point in history. The problem, imho, is not with WoW, but the industry forgoing fun and innovation in an attempt to 'ride the coat tails' of WoW. As a result, the mmo industry is generally bland and devoid of any real variety in quality to appease all the different types of tastes that the non-WoW-style of gamer has.
It's not that WoW sucks. This many people would not be playing it if it sucked. Heck I played it for 3 years.
And it's not that WoW invented fantasy rpg, or fantasy mmorpg. In many ways WoW is a reincarnation of many games that went before, all the way back to pen and paper D&D.
What WoW did that I don't like is that it made in game accomplishments much more easy to achieve, made in game tasks much more easy to do, hands out frequent rewards, and reduced group dependance. It also made leveling much easier and reduced the death penalty to something small. Those are only a few of many examples of how WoW took something that is usually challenging and made it much less challenging.
If the only impact of that was how one game decided to handle those issues, that's fine. But because doing that has either made the game, or coincided with it being, a blockbuster success, it has had a ripple effect throughout the industry. Other companies now look to WoW to decide what people like in making choices about how to design their game. That makes it hard for folks who like games that are more challenging to find new games to play.
That's not WoW's fault. It's no reason to hate the game. It's just an unfortunate side effect.
A game isn't a WoW clone because it has elves and orcs and dungeons. It's a WoW clone if whatever those elves and orcs are doing in that dungeon is on easy mode.
This is where I usually here how the older games weren't actually more challenging. Those of us who played them to any meaningful degree know better.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
@ marcuslm: I agree. It's certainly silly to have a new thread about the same talked-to-death subject every few weeks. I wonder how long it'll be this time before a new thread with a 'why is WoW hated?' question arises.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
What WoW did that I don't like is that it made in game accomplishments much more easy to achieve, made in game tasks much more easy to do, hands out frequent rewards, and reduced group dependance. It also made leveling much easier and reduced the death penalty to something small. Those are only a few of many examples of how WoW took something that is usually challenging and made it much less challenging.
Do you think WoW being easy is the only reason for WoW's success? The fact that it's easy? I'm not so sure it's all that easy, really. My casual raiding guild struggles with raid content. Hardcore MMO types might find it easy.
Comments
That's a very good point too, btw.
+1 for the whole comment.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
i dont know in all honesty. ffxi is the type of game that you take many breaks from peridoically lol.
i was stating that i still enjoy ffxi because its nothing like WoW. alot of other games i play remind me of WoW to much, and that turns me off to them.
I think many people who hate WoW compare WoW to other games. They use terms like' WoW clone'.
If the MMO was a exact copy of WoW, it would've done better in the market.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
Yah, FFXI actually lost enough players to WoW to become unprofitable.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
Eh? Ehm... FFXI is still around and being played, you know. At least, i thought I saw some FFXI related news on some of the forums lately, so I'm guessing it's still around and in the air.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
People hate WoW because it's the cool thing to do.
No matter how popular something is there are always other people who will hate it just because it's popular. These people all without fail play some less popular MMO and think themselves better than those 'WoW players'. This doesn't apply to just games it works tihs way with anything. Music, movies, books, sports, anything that someone enjoys there will always be someone who doesn't and has nothing better to do than tell you all about why they don't.
Who cares. Play the game you enjoy regardless of what everyone else says. It's especially laughable if you haven't even tried something yet you bash it, you just take the word of other people and don't think for yourself.
SOE killed SWG. The game was buggy and far from finished at release. WoW was just something new to jump ship from. SOE dumbly thought players wanted a game more like wow. I loved SWG to death but an idiot could list a million problems with the game.
Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.
This topic again. Oh well, might has well jump in with both feet.
I don't hate video games, I hate the fact that once the game became so popular it pretty much killed original thnking for most development teams and they all thought they had to copy WOW to get a piece of their success.
We haven't seen much originality in game design in the past 5 years from the major houses, and even some indie dev's have gone so far as to try and make vritual clones of Blizzards game.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
umm ffxi just released news recently that it had 2million active subscribers. i hardly call that unprofitable. thats still about 26million a month before fee's are taken out.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
Yeah, I agree. It seems that a new thread about the same subject is started every month or so.
The last time you can find here: Why is their so much hatred for WoW, a thread that was started the beginning of this month.
I vote that a compilation post be made with all the major highlights posted in former threads with the same subject, and then copy pasted every time a new thread about 'Why WoW hatred?' appears.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Nice OP and a fairly reasonable assessment of why WOW generates so much hate.
I have a few more...
1/ Crass elitism from so-called sandbox, old-school or hardcore players with serious delusions of grandeur
Now most sandboxers and old-schoolers and hardcore players on these forums are cool and balanced and write ace posts and that's why I like this website. But there is a segment that thinks the games people play reflect real-world intelligence and cultural taste. I have lost count of the number of times that such people on these forums have insulted ALL WOW or themepark gamers as dumb, immature, childish, or having "the intellects of earthworms" as one chap put it. I have also seen one chap ridiculously equate good and bad taste in movies to one's taste in sandbox (good) or themepark (bad) games: according to him, sandboxers like indie movies like "Moon" while themeparkers like "Transformers 2"; lol what a complete imbecile that dude was.
Now the reason they cling to this elitist mantra is because:
(a) Ironically, given their claim of superior intelligence, they are not very smart and have malfunctioning logic circuits
(b) It must feel nice being a self-elected, self-superior member of the elite surrouned by a backslapping, high-fiving clique of like-minded genuises. They are like that Professor in Joyce's Ulysses whose lawnmower makes the sound "cleverclevercleverclever".
(c) They are frustrated about the lack of sandbox mmorpgs to suit their preferences, which is perfectly reasonable and understandable, but then unreasonably attack everyone else who is actually enjoying a successful mmorpg (which is usually themepark and WOW-like) like some bitter kid who feels left out.
2/ The belief that WOW has had and will continue to have a negative effect on the mmorpg genre as a whole
This, it seems to me, is a reasonable concern and does have some validity. WOW has been so successful that it has led to themepark games dominating the mmorpg genre. Even when a post-WOW game is released with a different overall direction from WOW, you tend to find features common to WOW being incorprorated into those same games.
The same happens with the Hollywood movie industry. Hollywood is caught between two conflicting urges: minimizing risk and thus churning out the same old tired formula because thisguarantees a degree of success and return on their investment, while at the same time taking an occasional risk on new or original formulas because they need some edge to get ahead of their rivals and stay fresh. This is why most Hollywood releases are formulaic deja-vu inducing piles of crap to anyone that isn't totally new to cinema, and yet occasionally they release a movie by a more original director who is allowed to take more risks by the studio and we get stuff like Dark Knight etc. Since mmorpgs take longer to make than movies and since there are less mmorpgs released per year than movies, we may have to wait a lot longer for our mmorpg equivalents to The Dark Knight.
So I dunno if this Hollywood analogy holds true for mmorpgs, but if it does I can see why WOW gets hated as the mold for relatively risk-free development. Until this mold gets broken, the hate will probably continue. I am thoroughly bored of the WOW mold now so I feel this frustration a wee bit, too.
3/ The average age of mmorpg players means that many old-schoolers have become casual gamers
Some of the features demanded by sandboxers are not exactly casual friendly and this is often mentioned as a point of pride for sandboxers. Now I used to be a hardcore gamer and otaku, spending most of my hours reading comics, watching/reading SF, horror and fantasy, playing PC games and mmorpgs and generally being selfish and self-absorbed; those were great times but they couldn't last. On hitting my 30s my real-life responsibilties and commitments (marriage, family, work) became considerably more pronounced and now I am casual in all of my old obsessions and hobbies. I just have less time to commit to my self and that's just part of getting older. Maybe when I retire I can become hardcore again lol.
Now according to some figures the average mmorpg player is around 26 yrs old, 50% of mmorpg players work full-time, 36% are married and 22% have kids. Trust me, every year beyond 26 gets more real-world demanding, especially post-30s and even more-so if your work responsibilities increase as you get older (i.e. promotion). So I reckon that many old-school and hardcore gamers have become more casual, thus further reducing the amount of gamers who are prepared to support a hardcore sandbox game.
It must be frustrating being a member of a shrinking minority of old-school and hardcore gamers because no big-budget mmorpg is gonna take a financial risk on your minority preferences.
When you're frustrated you tend to hate and rant more. WOW is the obvious target.
If you could have a sandbox model that appealed to casual gamers this could change, but most of the sandbox features beloved of hardcore gamers are not forgiving of casual gamers. WOW is casual friendly so the mold remains unbroken.
My impressions, then.
Regards
Melmoth
as a former WoW player the main reason people hate WoW is because of posts by rabid fanboys (like this one) that go out of their way to gloat and to show other gamers that their game sucks and WoW is "the best".
thats why I try to distance myself from the WoW playerbase, because honestly its an embarressment when you see posts like this.
OP you're not doing WoW any favors by trying to prove why people shouldn't hate WOW, and others on this forum aren't doing WoW any favors by gloating or constantly posting WoW subs numbers as to Why its great.
want to stop the WOW hate? stop making stupid posts like this that make all WoW fans look like rabid immature brats.
i played for over 3 years and enjoyed most of it but the game has now changed so much and i just cant be bothered with it, they is nothing new even if they add new content its still the same old wash, rinse and repeat, a lot dont hate wow they just get to a point where they realise they are better games or better things to do with your time.
Playing: FFXIV
Future: wishing for SWG 2, World of Warcraft Classic
Played: Most current and extinct MMO's - 18 Years in....
Interesting Fact - I own 27 Tarantula's
Now, now, you make an interesting point about generalisations, but then you devalue your statement by falling into that trap yourself. Tsk, tsk.
Unless it was done on purpose and the summation is self ironic
For the rest, interesting post, and I can clearly see the resemblance of how game companies might go for the safe, formulaic route just as movie and tv companies might do it. Doesn't make me happy though, but that's business.
I'd like to compare it with music companies as well, first you have a popular emerging trend like rock 'n roll, punk or house, then you have whole hordes of music companies who jump on the bandwagon not as much out of love for the trend but because they smell money, and the trend becomes mainstream after which the early adapters scorn most music and bands of that former-emerging-but-now-mainstream trend for being sellouts, and the genre having lost its edges, most of the music that's being released in that music genre now being 'commercial' and mainstream'.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
You have a link with that figure, because a few years back they were at 600K and I can't imagine that sub numbers have been going up since then.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
i dont know where this was created but i dont trust it. what source is it from? i need more info on where it came from to believe it.
this is the statement SE released last year in april.
Vana'dielian Population Tops Two Million! (04/22/2009)
It is our distinct pleasure to announce that during the third week of April, the total number of active characters across all worlds in FINAL FANTASY XI has exceeded the two million mark for the first time!
Since the commencement of service on May 16th, 2002, Vana'diel has gone on to become a vibrant gathering place for adventurers hailing from all corners of the globe. Boasting four expansions and one add-on scenario with two more in the pipes, FINAL FANTASY XI continues to evolve into an ever richer realm of magic and adventure.
We would like to thank you, our fans, for your loyal patronage over the years, and look forward to your continued support for many more to come.
http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/0904/topics_all.html
Wikipedia says this: "As of 2008, in an announcement for three additional expansions in development, SE noted Final Fantasy XI still has a strong user base of around 500,000 subscribers. In April 2009, Square Enix announced that the total number of active characters exceeded 2 million for the first time in game history."
References to those quotes can be looked up on that wikipedia page, if wanted.
I don't know how active characters should be interpreted, but i think it's safe to say that FFXI is still around and doing ok for now
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I don't like wow because graphically it looks like it is designed to appeal to ten year olds.
This one is simple and I have been saying it for years.
Most people hate WoW because it became so popular that it became...*shrieks in horror*...mainstream.
People LOVE to hate things that are mainstream. It makes them feel more evolved, special, and cool. It's like I have some friends that don't think ANY chain restaurant is a good restaurant. It has to be some one off place in an artsy part of town before they consider it a good restaurant. This kind of stuff is never going to change, people have been doing it with music, etc forever.
It's snobbish really.
People have the right to hate games, that's fine. I just wish they would shut up about it. If you don't like a game..don't play it. I just don't want to hear about how it sucks on a daily basis. That goes for any game to me, not just WoW..don't like DarkFall..fine..don't play it. People have different tastes and I think it's good for all gamers to have variety out there.
My two cents...flame on.
I don't hate WoW. I hate what the industry become because of WoW.
Im my opinion, it turned the industry into a mass-market, simplistic, profit-oriented industry to grab the mnost cash as possible at the expense of fun and innovation.
WoW itself is not a bad game. It has a target audience just like every single product that ever came to market in any point in history. The problem, imho, is not with WoW, but the industry forgoing fun and innovation in an attempt to 'ride the coat tails' of WoW. As a result, the mmo industry is generally bland and devoid of any real variety in quality to appease all the different types of tastes that the non-WoW-style of gamer has.
I'm not creative enough to have a signature
I can only speak for myself.
It's not that WoW sucks. This many people would not be playing it if it sucked. Heck I played it for 3 years.
And it's not that WoW invented fantasy rpg, or fantasy mmorpg. In many ways WoW is a reincarnation of many games that went before, all the way back to pen and paper D&D.
What WoW did that I don't like is that it made in game accomplishments much more easy to achieve, made in game tasks much more easy to do, hands out frequent rewards, and reduced group dependance. It also made leveling much easier and reduced the death penalty to something small. Those are only a few of many examples of how WoW took something that is usually challenging and made it much less challenging.
If the only impact of that was how one game decided to handle those issues, that's fine. But because doing that has either made the game, or coincided with it being, a blockbuster success, it has had a ripple effect throughout the industry. Other companies now look to WoW to decide what people like in making choices about how to design their game. That makes it hard for folks who like games that are more challenging to find new games to play.
That's not WoW's fault. It's no reason to hate the game. It's just an unfortunate side effect.
A game isn't a WoW clone because it has elves and orcs and dungeons. It's a WoW clone if whatever those elves and orcs are doing in that dungeon is on easy mode.
This is where I usually here how the older games weren't actually more challenging. Those of us who played them to any meaningful degree know better.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
@ marcuslm: I agree. It's certainly silly to have a new thread about the same talked-to-death subject every few weeks. I wonder how long it'll be this time before a new thread with a 'why is WoW hated?' question arises.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Wow has ruined the mmo genre by making a game mmo thats very rewarding but very easy and eveyone is trying to copying them.
Do you think WoW being easy is the only reason for WoW's success? The fact that it's easy? I'm not so sure it's all that easy, really. My casual raiding guild struggles with raid content. Hardcore MMO types might find it easy.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren