Except in EVE. And that is why I cannot play the game.
Uf, you didnt really pay Eve did you? What you describe you want is exactly how Eve works, when you have skills capable of flying a frigate it doesnt mean that you actually can fly it well. You are master of nothing at that point just like when you get your drivers licence.
I don't have time to elaborate but that is an absolutely basic concept in EVE and the whole game is built on precisly what you claim to want.
You missed my point. You can master a skill without actually doing it. Your mastery of flying frigates has absolutely nothing with how much flying in a frigate you have done. You can get the skill to four or five, I forget, without ever, ever having been in a frigate. That is my point.
I thought I was clear, but I will try again, because this is actually quite important to me, because CCP owns the WoD MMO. Your progression in power and ability is not connected to anything you actually do in the game world. You simply pick what you want to be good at and you gradually get better at it. I feel that to get better at say, targeting your lasers, you should have to target some lasers and shoot stuff out of the sky. In EVE, you do not have to do this. You just have to pick the "Laser" skill and learn it. After a while, you are a master of lasers, without ever having fired a shot.
Of course, that makes perfect sense in the IP, but I cannot play a game where in-game actions and progression are not connected.
I would agree with you if max skills meant victory 100% of the time but they dont.
Wanna know what does? actually playing the game, you know getting better at flying a ship, practice... That's the type of in game progress we like we don't need to grind out lazer turrets on NPC.
A newb will always be a newb even with a whole mess of skills.
I love EVE for the fact its so different to other MMOS but I really dislike the fact that the skills are real time. Often I find myself just logging in to set up my skill que. When I log into a game I want to play it not be sitting in a hangar because it's going to take a month to reach my target. I'm fine with goals taking years in an mmo but I want to actually be playing the skills out and leveling instead of logging on to click a few buttons. maybe I just dont quite understand the game and I take my hat off to people who love it. I try. As attached as I am to it's uniqueness and the art style of the more expensive ships the game just doesnt do it for me
Originally posted by Rockgod99 I would agree with you if max skills meant victory 100% of the time but they dont. Wanna know what does? actually playing the game, you know getting better at flying a ship, practice... That's the type of in game progress we like we don't need to grind out lazer turrets on NPC. A newb will always be a newb even with a whole mess of skills.
In addition, I think what many naysayers of EVE's skill system don't usually see is that with skill being progressed by time, this frees up the player for actual gameplay. I don't have to sit there and literally practice my skills manually so I can eventually get to the good parts, no I jump into the action from day 1 and I could join others on their action too.
Albeit in Survivor Guy Week 4, he points out how futile a frig is on a high level mission but thats probably because he was shooting at a whole other class of ships that are generally a lot more armored to the authors lack of experience.
Outside of things like that, even players that only played 2-3 weeks can be useful in PvP albeit limited to most likely tackler, but nonetheless useful and impactful in fleet battle moreso than most MMO's offer. This can be applied to many other aspects in the game from (ninja) salvaging to trading to crafting to mining. There are many tricks of the trade you have to learn on your own as a player, but the skill system frees you up to have fun ultimately.
You missed my point. You can master a skill without actually doing it. Your mastery of flying frigates has absolutely nothing with how much flying in a frigate you have done. You can get the skill to four or five, I forget, without ever, ever having been in a frigate. That is my point.
I thought I was clear, but I will try again, because this is actually quite important to me, because CCP owns the WoD MMO. Your progression in power and ability is not connected to anything you actually do in the game world. You simply pick what you want to be good at and you gradually get better at it. I feel that to get better at say, targeting your lasers, you should have to target some lasers and shoot stuff out of the sky. In EVE, you do not have to do this. You just have to pick the "Laser" skill and learn it. After a while, you are a master of lasers, without ever having fired a shot.
Of course, that makes perfect sense in the IP, but I cannot play a game where in-game actions and progression are not connected.
In the context of Sci-Fi, that really doesn't matter if you haven't had the experience. In the Matrix, Keanu Reaves "mastered" many forms of martial arts merely by downloading it into his brain. In EVE Online, you are an immortal that lives in a capsule. In this context, its purely feasible, but obviously in a fantasy setting, that part would have to be tweaked into something else.
In the context of gameplay, the skills you have in EVE doesn't define you as much as people think it does. You're defined by your ships, the facilities you own/can run, equipment for ships which ultimately requires ISK to do any of it.
Even if you master everything about frigates, if you didn't spend any of your time making money doing missions and flying in your frigate, you will never afford more advanced equipment and ships, yet alone the skills required to even operate them. I would say plaeyr economy (wealth and assets) has a much greater emphasis on your character than the skills learned.
I think this goes to the heart of my earlier criticism...not that EVE's skill system is wrong, but that EVE's system isn't directly transferable to a fantasy setting. You acknowledge it too, but I think the issue requires more thought...
EVE's system works because, as you imply, it isn't the player that does the work. The technology does the work. Skills represent a knowledge of the technology, but it's the technology that actually defines the person's role. That's why it isn't such a far stretch for me to conceive of a frigate pilot who has laser's level 5, but hasn't fired a shot in combat. Our military is full of soldiers with advanced qualifications on weapons they have never fired in wartime. But that's because it is the technology that kills, not the person.
But in a fantasy setting, the technology really doesn't do the work. The character does the work, or at least it should. That's why it's difficult--perhaps impossible--to think of characters in a fantasy setting as divorced from their roles. Putting on armor and wielding a sword won't make one a warrior. The heart of a warrior is what makes him so.
And I'm not saying this to suggest why we shouldn't have a realtime skill meter to level up swordsmanship. We can, but then, how do we actually make the distinction about who is a master swordsman, and who isn't?
There is something fundametally wrong in the notion that a swordsman with swords 3, who has fought numerous foes, gets pwned by a swordsman with swords 5, who sat in town for three months longer logged off. In EVE, that's all explained very easily: it ain't the pilot that made the kill, the ship did. And since combat between ships is a technical struggle more than a visceral one, "book learning" makes a difference.
Not so in fantasy warfare. Not even close.
History is full of examples of poorly armed, poorly trained combatants outperforming highly trained, well armed soldiers. In fact, those who trained, rather than fought, actually came out worse. Why? Because the difference in ancient warfare depended on the killer instincts, mental toughness, experience, and physical discipline of the warrior. Combat wasn't something you learned in class. Combat was something that you did. The more you did it, the better you got at it.
This is also true, to some extent, in our own time. Now our recent technological history is full of examples where "book learning" does not equate competence. We think of "chicken shit" officers in the Vietnam era who are trained in theory how to lead, but who have never led. We can think of "green" soldiers who know the capabilities of their weapons, but aren't experienced soldiers. EVE simulates that very well, because as you and others have said, the skills learned from the skillbooks have little bearing on how the person rates.
But in fantasy, it does...far more than in modern or sci-fi warfare.
You can't be a master of the blade unless you've actually killed things. You can't be a master of the forge unless you actually made things. You can't be a master of the netherworld unless you've actually conjured things. Part of the appeal...perhaps the only appeal...of fantasy over sci-fi is that the journey from novice to master isn't about paying a lot of money to a school so that they can teach you, like today, but you forge your own destiny, by doing instead of waiting around.
In fantasy, this is represented by levelling (whether levelling skills or the character) through "grinding MOBs." We say we don't like grinding MOBs, but we have to understand what the grind really means and represents before we attempt to eliminate it.
In a world that is supposed to reward the mastery of technology, "the grind" is seen as a waste. The fun is in using the technology. That's why it's alright to eliminate it in EVE.
But in a world where technology is secondary to the courage of men, the wisdom of sorcerers, and the patience of craftsmen, "the grind" is not a waste. It may not be seen as fun, but it is a way of proving your mettle, of justifying the status, of earning the right to be "master swordsman" or "master blacksmith."
You just don't get that from paying for a year sub, logging off next to a training dummy, and coming back to a nice badge.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Originally posted by Beatnik59 ... And I'm not saying this to suggest why we shouldn't have a realtime skill meter to level up swordsmanship. We can, but then, how do we actually make the distinction about who is a master swordsman, and who isn't? There is something fundametally wrong in the notion that a swordsman with swords 3, who has fought numerous foes, gets pwned by a swordsman with swords 5, who sat in town for three months longer logged off. In EVE, that's all explained very easily: it ain't the pilot that made the kill, the ship did. And since combat between ships is a technical struggle more than a visceral one, "book learning" makes a difference. Not so in fantasy warfare. Not even close. ...
Like someone previous mentioned before about EVE Online, you could have the "know-how" or the "abilities" on your character, but it should be up to the players to be able to apply the skills right. Even if its timing the abilities/swings right (it doesn't have to be FPS-like DFO or MO), this should separate the "master swordsman" from the "average swordsman".
Its about properly using the tools right which ultimately should fall upon the player, things like that should never be determined by values alone and actually the emphasis of pure numbers should be weighed less compared to proper/smarter decision making. This will bring about the skilled trained peasant trumping fledgling knights and squires. We still have to emulate the fact that a warrior with 5 weeks of training and no experience in real combat should trump over the warrior with only 2 weeks of training and no experience in real combat.
Training does provide a bonus realistically over having less training so it's still something that should ultimately be accounted for, however.
Stop reducing Eve to its skill system. Try concentrating on the things that matter and how you can translate them into a fantasy world. How you encourage specialization to create social structures and how/if you create a system to measure and limit progression is completely secondary and deviations from Eve's choice does not make a game more or less Eve-ish.
Yes I think these could be a great idea..expect you would have to change alot of the Norm we see today
Skills could be split up into catagories Leaning by doing . learning by getting taught aka a book, teacher
Learning by doing was how things were usally done...pick up a stick and swing it over time you just get better at it
Getting taught is something you just can't learn to do on your own.. aka blacksmithing or better sword techiques
Not sure to get rid of levels...maybe just have it affect on how high that skill goes...or a other idea could be a rank system aka combat rank , crafting rank, to effect how good you get a fighter , trader, crafter... roles can get trained differently... pure traders can't be spartans on the the battlefield
EVEs economy - Would like to see this in a more mmos ( don't know if anyone else has tryed this) FE kinda thought it could do it but nahhhh
for this to work so you put up supply and demand in towns...each town needs to be better then a other town at something ex: Bobville makes good swords Franssville makes good sheilds boom sell!
The game can't be gear based(wow) plan and simple...just like eve gear is there to use not dominate with
Player crafting effect the economy!! non of this bs wow crafting where 90% of it just junk to lvl it up to 400+ or whatever it is now
Pvp Is something that would be challaging but even a lowly solider can sometimes kill a Mounted full plated knight with the right gear used: ex polearms crossbow .....So skill and the knowledge you have built up would be more at play then just the I have full PVP set and you have pve set you die.
Magic should have its part just thinking towards more like merlin but don't have much thought on it
One thing i haven't seen in recent mmos is the abilty to color your armor the way you want it to be...In many games where armor by lvl is the norm... where you see someone your lvl where the same dam gear you are which is fine but i would like to color that freaking armor! SO atleast i look different then that other guy ...."just got full tier 8 set oh hey you have a full tier 8 set too omg we like twins"...
thats just a couple ideas for you to chew up.... like or dislike....doubt this would be for everyone but I for one am tired of themeparks...because once your at the end its just the same old ride....i only played eve for a short time liked it but maybe space wasn't for me...
Played:TheRealm,FFXI,WoW,FE,Eve Playing: Nothing( stuck on a ship) Future play: FFXIV,SW:TOR
When WoD (World of Darkness) hits the shelves then you will see this concept done in a fantasy setting.
This game better be f*cking glorious.
I've loved OWoD since Vampire the Masquerade: Redemption and the pen and paper version (and I'm not typically a fan of these types of games.
NWoD looks pretty good too, and I think. With CCP behind them I'm getting way more excited for this then I should lol.
But yeah, here's to this being as good as Eve....but with Vampires!
Playing: *sigh* back to WoW -------- Waiting for: SW:TOR, APB, WoD --------- Played and loved: Eve and WoW -------- Played and hated: WoW:WotLK, Warhammer, every single F2P
EVEs economy - Would like to see this in a more mmos ( don't know if anyone else has tryed this) FE kinda thought it could do it but nahhhh
In order for Eve's economy to work in a fantasy game then players precious shiney items have to be destroyed on regular basis. Judging by the responses to full loot PvP game threads it just won't go over too well.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
Originally posted by dave6660 In order for Eve's economy to work in a fantasy game then players precious shiney items have to be destroyed on regular basis. Judging by the responses to full loot PvP game threads it just won't go over too well.
Item decay isn't a problem. The exclusivity is.
For functional economy, you need accessible and commonly available products.
the only thing in this system that I wash was different, was some form of reward system for those who were active as opposed to a player who parks his character and just logs in to fill up their learning trees... perhaps bonus learning time for those who complete missions or are active in the game...
But can this work in a fantasy setting? Gamers would sub the game, there would be zero grind (except for maybe coin or crafyt materials) and players can exist, and how successful they are is based mainly on the individuals skill, dedication to the game (casual or hardcore) and ability to plan ahead thinking about how they want their character to eventually develop...
Could this work as a primary advancement system... Think EVE meets Darkfall...
I think an 'EVE meets Darkfall', or an 'EVE meets Mortal Online' skill system could both turn out well if implemented properly.
Both EVE and Darkfall would benefit from a selective adaptation of parts of eachother's skill-tree systems. EVE is great in that there are a huge diversity of skills, and you are constantly making progress in them down whichever path you feel like, even if you happen to spend an entire day repeatedly losing ships/ISK. Darkfall is great in that you do make extra gains for your active gameplay, and even if the grind on certain things (like grinding your base stats for increased max hp) is extremely slow, until you reach cap there is always at least a little progress to be made from logging in and playing (or leaving your macro running).
What EVE needs to learn from Darkfall, is that rewarding active play can be a good thing.
Dakfall needs to learn a little more from EVE. It would benefit from having anywhere close to the massive diversity in skills available in EVE, both in giving people progress options which make their builds different than others, and also just in deepening a progression cap that's present in Darkfall which many people have already hit. Not necessary, but also possibly good, would be any way to make some kind of progress while offline in Darkfall (without that macro).
Darkfall also could really use any kind of a functional economy to make industry useful, and EVE has to be the best example for a working, player-based market. But... there are a lot of things that EVE does well that would be great for any other game.
EVE very strongly rewards active play, it's just that you dont get most of the rewards on your character sheet.
True, active play yields opportunities to generate more ISK or make political advances (and all kinds of other things), it just would be nice if that active play rewarded you on your character sheet in terms of skill progression at all, too, because really it's one of the most important long-term features of your character, and allowing this would let players feel like their active play actually brings them a little closer to bridging the gap between them and another player with an older character.
It just feels weird to me playing a game where I can't grind my ass off to catch up, like I'm used to.
EVE very strongly rewards active play, it's just that you dont get most of the rewards on your character sheet.
True, active play yields opportunities to generate more ISK or make political advances (and all kinds of other things), it just would be nice if that active play rewarded you on your character sheet in terms of skill progression at all, too, because really it's one of the most important long-term features of your character, and allowing this would let players feel like their active play actually brings them a little closer to bridging the gap between them and another player with an older character.
It just feels weird to me playing a game where I can't grind my ass off to catch up, like I'm used to.
I understand where you're coming from, but you must realise that as soon as level grinding becomes possible, it also becomes mandatory. If CCP added it in now, that wouldn't help you "catch up" all because the older players would do it too.
But really, once you accept the premise of the time-bassed system, it comes as a huge liberation. Luckily, CCP have been pretty rigorous about making the skill system wider rather than deeper. This means that "catching up" is not the issue that a naive look at skillpoint toals would lead an outsider to believe. A lot of people assume that 1M SP is like level 1, and 50M SP is like level 50. But it isn't that way at all, and the key difference is that almost all activity in EVE is ship-based. The 50M SP character is like level 3 in this ship, level 5 in that, level 3 in another, level 1 in this other one.... You're never actually more than a few levels behind. (T2 ships are like the Prestige classes in this analogy, inherently more powerful and you have to reach level 5 in the base class). But the 50M SP guy will have levels in many more classes than you, and he will have the advantage that he is more likely to be able to bring the optimal class for the job, rather than using a less specialised one (like in a fantasy game having your Tank be a ranger rather than a paladin).
Another balancing factor is that CCP are very good about the rock-paper-scissor thing. Every ship type has at least one glaring weak point. Most have several. If you encounter the wrong kind of ship in the wrong situation, then all the SP in the world wont save you. If a 100M SP player in a full T2 fit sniper battleship jumps through a gate and encounters a 3M SP dude in a cheap t1-fit cruiser like a Thorax or a Caracal, the 100M SP guy is gonna get raped without fail.
In short: dont worry about it. Your character sheet is just one factor in your success in the game, and it's probably not even the most important. Your skills are a tool to use in advancing your goals, just like your ISK, your reputation, your friends, your assets and your game knowledge.
Comments
I would agree with you if max skills meant victory 100% of the time but they dont.
Wanna know what does? actually playing the game, you know getting better at flying a ship, practice... That's the type of in game progress we like we don't need to grind out lazer turrets on NPC.
A newb will always be a newb even with a whole mess of skills.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
I love EVE for the fact its so different to other MMOS but I really dislike the fact that the skills are real time. Often I find myself just logging in to set up my skill que. When I log into a game I want to play it not be sitting in a hangar because it's going to take a month to reach my target. I'm fine with goals taking years in an mmo but I want to actually be playing the skills out and leveling instead of logging on to click a few buttons. maybe I just dont quite understand the game and I take my hat off to people who love it. I try. As attached as I am to it's uniqueness and the art style of the more expensive ships the game just doesnt do it for me
In addition, I think what many naysayers of EVE's skill system don't usually see is that with skill being progressed by time, this frees up the player for actual gameplay. I don't have to sit there and literally practice my skills manually so I can eventually get to the good parts, no I jump into the action from day 1 and I could join others on their action too.
Albeit in Survivor Guy Week 4, he points out how futile a frig is on a high level mission but thats probably because he was shooting at a whole other class of ships that are generally a lot more armored to the authors lack of experience.
Outside of things like that, even players that only played 2-3 weeks can be useful in PvP albeit limited to most likely tackler, but nonetheless useful and impactful in fleet battle moreso than most MMO's offer. This can be applied to many other aspects in the game from (ninja) salvaging to trading to crafting to mining. There are many tricks of the trade you have to learn on your own as a player, but the skill system frees you up to have fun ultimately.
I think this goes to the heart of my earlier criticism...not that EVE's skill system is wrong, but that EVE's system isn't directly transferable to a fantasy setting. You acknowledge it too, but I think the issue requires more thought...
EVE's system works because, as you imply, it isn't the player that does the work. The technology does the work. Skills represent a knowledge of the technology, but it's the technology that actually defines the person's role. That's why it isn't such a far stretch for me to conceive of a frigate pilot who has laser's level 5, but hasn't fired a shot in combat. Our military is full of soldiers with advanced qualifications on weapons they have never fired in wartime. But that's because it is the technology that kills, not the person.
But in a fantasy setting, the technology really doesn't do the work. The character does the work, or at least it should. That's why it's difficult--perhaps impossible--to think of characters in a fantasy setting as divorced from their roles. Putting on armor and wielding a sword won't make one a warrior. The heart of a warrior is what makes him so.
And I'm not saying this to suggest why we shouldn't have a realtime skill meter to level up swordsmanship. We can, but then, how do we actually make the distinction about who is a master swordsman, and who isn't?
There is something fundametally wrong in the notion that a swordsman with swords 3, who has fought numerous foes, gets pwned by a swordsman with swords 5, who sat in town for three months longer logged off. In EVE, that's all explained very easily: it ain't the pilot that made the kill, the ship did. And since combat between ships is a technical struggle more than a visceral one, "book learning" makes a difference.
Not so in fantasy warfare. Not even close.
History is full of examples of poorly armed, poorly trained combatants outperforming highly trained, well armed soldiers. In fact, those who trained, rather than fought, actually came out worse. Why? Because the difference in ancient warfare depended on the killer instincts, mental toughness, experience, and physical discipline of the warrior. Combat wasn't something you learned in class. Combat was something that you did. The more you did it, the better you got at it.
This is also true, to some extent, in our own time. Now our recent technological history is full of examples where "book learning" does not equate competence. We think of "chicken shit" officers in the Vietnam era who are trained in theory how to lead, but who have never led. We can think of "green" soldiers who know the capabilities of their weapons, but aren't experienced soldiers. EVE simulates that very well, because as you and others have said, the skills learned from the skillbooks have little bearing on how the person rates.
But in fantasy, it does...far more than in modern or sci-fi warfare.
You can't be a master of the blade unless you've actually killed things. You can't be a master of the forge unless you actually made things. You can't be a master of the netherworld unless you've actually conjured things. Part of the appeal...perhaps the only appeal...of fantasy over sci-fi is that the journey from novice to master isn't about paying a lot of money to a school so that they can teach you, like today, but you forge your own destiny, by doing instead of waiting around.
In fantasy, this is represented by levelling (whether levelling skills or the character) through "grinding MOBs." We say we don't like grinding MOBs, but we have to understand what the grind really means and represents before we attempt to eliminate it.
In a world that is supposed to reward the mastery of technology, "the grind" is seen as a waste. The fun is in using the technology. That's why it's alright to eliminate it in EVE.
But in a world where technology is secondary to the courage of men, the wisdom of sorcerers, and the patience of craftsmen, "the grind" is not a waste. It may not be seen as fun, but it is a way of proving your mettle, of justifying the status, of earning the right to be "master swordsman" or "master blacksmith."
You just don't get that from paying for a year sub, logging off next to a training dummy, and coming back to a nice badge.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Like someone previous mentioned before about EVE Online, you could have the "know-how" or the "abilities" on your character, but it should be up to the players to be able to apply the skills right. Even if its timing the abilities/swings right (it doesn't have to be FPS-like DFO or MO), this should separate the "master swordsman" from the "average swordsman".
Its about properly using the tools right which ultimately should fall upon the player, things like that should never be determined by values alone and actually the emphasis of pure numbers should be weighed less compared to proper/smarter decision making. This will bring about the skilled trained peasant trumping fledgling knights and squires. We still have to emulate the fact that a warrior with 5 weeks of training and no experience in real combat should trump over the warrior with only 2 weeks of training and no experience in real combat.
Training does provide a bonus realistically over having less training so it's still something that should ultimately be accounted for, however.
Stop reducing Eve to its skill system. Try concentrating on the things that matter and how you can translate them into a fantasy world. How you encourage specialization to create social structures and how/if you create a system to measure and limit progression is completely secondary and deviations from Eve's choice does not make a game more or less Eve-ish.
Yes I think these could be a great idea..expect you would have to change alot of the Norm we see today
Skills could be split up into catagories Leaning by doing . learning by getting taught aka a book, teacher
Learning by doing was how things were usally done...pick up a stick and swing it over time you just get better at it
Getting taught is something you just can't learn to do on your own.. aka blacksmithing or better sword techiques
Not sure to get rid of levels...maybe just have it affect on how high that skill goes...or a other idea could be a rank system aka combat rank , crafting rank, to effect how good you get a fighter , trader, crafter... roles can get trained differently... pure traders can't be spartans on the the battlefield
EVEs economy - Would like to see this in a more mmos ( don't know if anyone else has tryed this) FE kinda thought it could do it but nahhhh
for this to work so you put up supply and demand in towns...each town needs to be better then a other town at something ex: Bobville makes good swords Franssville makes good sheilds boom sell!
The game can't be gear based(wow) plan and simple...just like eve gear is there to use not dominate with
Player crafting effect the economy!! non of this bs wow crafting where 90% of it just junk to lvl it up to 400+ or whatever it is now
Pvp Is something that would be challaging but even a lowly solider can sometimes kill a Mounted full plated knight with the right gear used: ex polearms crossbow .....So skill and the knowledge you have built up would be more at play then just the I have full PVP set and you have pve set you die.
Magic should have its part just thinking towards more like merlin but don't have much thought on it
One thing i haven't seen in recent mmos is the abilty to color your armor the way you want it to be...In many games where armor by lvl is the norm... where you see someone your lvl where the same dam gear you are which is fine but i would like to color that freaking armor! SO atleast i look different then that other guy ...."just got full tier 8 set oh hey you have a full tier 8 set too omg we like twins"...
thats just a couple ideas for you to chew up.... like or dislike....doubt this would be for everyone but I for one am tired of themeparks...because once your at the end its just the same old ride....i only played eve for a short time liked it but maybe space wasn't for me...
Played:TheRealm,FFXI,WoW,FE,Eve
Playing: Nothing( stuck on a ship)
Future play: FFXIV,SW:TOR
This game better be f*cking glorious.
I've loved OWoD since Vampire the Masquerade: Redemption and the pen and paper version (and I'm not typically a fan of these types of games.
NWoD looks pretty good too, and I think. With CCP behind them I'm getting way more excited for this then I should lol.
But yeah, here's to this being as good as Eve....but with Vampires!
Playing: *sigh* back to WoW
--------
Waiting for: SW:TOR, APB, WoD
---------
Played and loved: Eve and WoW
--------
Played and hated: WoW:WotLK, Warhammer, every single F2P
In order for Eve's economy to work in a fantasy game then players precious shiney items have to be destroyed on regular basis. Judging by the responses to full loot PvP game threads it just won't go over too well.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
Item decay isn't a problem. The exclusivity is.
For functional economy, you need accessible and commonly available products.
I think an 'EVE meets Darkfall', or an 'EVE meets Mortal Online' skill system could both turn out well if implemented properly.
Both EVE and Darkfall would benefit from a selective adaptation of parts of eachother's skill-tree systems. EVE is great in that there are a huge diversity of skills, and you are constantly making progress in them down whichever path you feel like, even if you happen to spend an entire day repeatedly losing ships/ISK. Darkfall is great in that you do make extra gains for your active gameplay, and even if the grind on certain things (like grinding your base stats for increased max hp) is extremely slow, until you reach cap there is always at least a little progress to be made from logging in and playing (or leaving your macro running).
What EVE needs to learn from Darkfall, is that rewarding active play can be a good thing.
Dakfall needs to learn a little more from EVE. It would benefit from having anywhere close to the massive diversity in skills available in EVE, both in giving people progress options which make their builds different than others, and also just in deepening a progression cap that's present in Darkfall which many people have already hit. Not necessary, but also possibly good, would be any way to make some kind of progress while offline in Darkfall (without that macro).
Darkfall also could really use any kind of a functional economy to make industry useful, and EVE has to be the best example for a working, player-based market. But... there are a lot of things that EVE does well that would be great for any other game.
I HOPE that one day Darkfall will be the fantasy version of EVE.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
True, active play yields opportunities to generate more ISK or make political advances (and all kinds of other things), it just would be nice if that active play rewarded you on your character sheet in terms of skill progression at all, too, because really it's one of the most important long-term features of your character, and allowing this would let players feel like their active play actually brings them a little closer to bridging the gap between them and another player with an older character.
It just feels weird to me playing a game where I can't grind my ass off to catch up, like I'm used to.
This.
It is your problem, it would not improve the gameplay in any way. It is not a game related issue.
The difference with EVE that it rewards your skills, not the time invested.
I understand where you're coming from, but you must realise that as soon as level grinding becomes possible, it also becomes mandatory. If CCP added it in now, that wouldn't help you "catch up" all because the older players would do it too.
But really, once you accept the premise of the time-bassed system, it comes as a huge liberation. Luckily, CCP have been pretty rigorous about making the skill system wider rather than deeper. This means that "catching up" is not the issue that a naive look at skillpoint toals would lead an outsider to believe. A lot of people assume that 1M SP is like level 1, and 50M SP is like level 50. But it isn't that way at all, and the key difference is that almost all activity in EVE is ship-based. The 50M SP character is like level 3 in this ship, level 5 in that, level 3 in another, level 1 in this other one.... You're never actually more than a few levels behind. (T2 ships are like the Prestige classes in this analogy, inherently more powerful and you have to reach level 5 in the base class). But the 50M SP guy will have levels in many more classes than you, and he will have the advantage that he is more likely to be able to bring the optimal class for the job, rather than using a less specialised one (like in a fantasy game having your Tank be a ranger rather than a paladin).
Another balancing factor is that CCP are very good about the rock-paper-scissor thing. Every ship type has at least one glaring weak point. Most have several. If you encounter the wrong kind of ship in the wrong situation, then all the SP in the world wont save you. If a 100M SP player in a full T2 fit sniper battleship jumps through a gate and encounters a 3M SP dude in a cheap t1-fit cruiser like a Thorax or a Caracal, the 100M SP guy is gonna get raped without fail.
In short: dont worry about it. Your character sheet is just one factor in your success in the game, and it's probably not even the most important. Your skills are a tool to use in advancing your goals, just like your ISK, your reputation, your friends, your assets and your game knowledge.
Give me liberty or give me lasers