Hellgate and Warhammer had kick-ass trailers too. Learn the lesson. Yo, Mr Glass half-empty, why not try quoting the whole quote which was the poster who I replied to. He said, So I wonder why a game like SW:TOR with so much money in it is not able to offer a good trailer or ingame footage. Or did I just miss them? Anyone, who has an IQ of 20 can clearly see it's a cinematic. But it is a trailer which is what he asked for. It was my fault, sorry. I didn´t find the right word to describe what I meant. It´s indeed a wonderful "cinematic" trailer. But I thought of something more ingame-related. The two videos I spoke of seemed to show a more "traditional" gameplay. So I hoped to find a trailersomething, which shows what TOR will make different.
Not in game footage but was their trailer :P When I intially saw it, it reved up the juices in me
Hellgate and Warhammer had kick-ass trailers too.
Learn the lesson.
Yo, Mr Glass half-empty, why not try quoting the whole quote which was the poster who I replied to.
He said, So I wonder why a game like SW:TOR with so much money in it is not able to offer a good trailer or ingame footage. Or did I just miss them?
Anyone, who has an IQ of 20 can clearly see it's a cinematic. But it is a trailer which is what he asked for.
It was my fault, sorry. I didn´t find the right word to describe what I meant.
It´s indeed a wonderful "cinematic" trailer. But I thought of something more ingame-related. The two videos I spoke of seemed to show a more "traditional" gameplay. So I hoped to find a trailersomething, which shows what TOR will make different.
As far as I can tell, its if you liked KOTOR series, you should like the mmo from whats been shown so far.
World of warcraft, did not cost that much to make. It's a load of rubbish. Maybe with all expansions included, including cataclysm, but not at first.
As for the cost of this game. I think it will show. Most of it went into the story I have to admit. Though I for one feel that this is a good thing coming. Though we will have to wait and see.
The trailer proves they aren't holding back any punches in what they are willing to do to make the great game they want. I.E Expensive cinematic.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
some1 needs to go back to wow and do the same old grind over and over again so they can see that this game will be #1 for sometime to come after it comes out.
some1 needs to go back to wow and do the same old grind over and over again so they can see that this game will be #1 for sometime to come after it comes out.
No way.
Great game for KOTOR fans? Probably.
Very good game for Star Wars fans? Maybe. Not if there's no space combat.
Good game for MMO players in general? Not unless they have good crafting, PvP, and end game content. All of those are doubtful at this point.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Cost over 150 million and the only thing that seems to be breaking ground is the voice acting for NPC's. I mean even the theme has been done before. Is it just a tragic waste of what could have been for that price tag or does this game actually have some substance beyond voice acting that would justify the cost?
NIce opening line that may have had some substance to it and then you ask a basic question that infers you don't really have any idea of what they have and haven't included in the game. What is tragic is that you are posting on a SWTOR forumn and do not seem to be upto speed with where the game is at, I suggest you go read up on all the available content . Great stickies with links in this forumn. Read and ENjoy.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
The trailer proves they aren't holding back any punches in what they are willing to do to make the great game they want. I.E Expensive cinematic.
Cinematic trailers tell you nothing about the quality of the game. Nothing.
They tell us one thing - why the hell are they spending a million dollars on a trailer when they don't have a game to launch? To generate awareness and buzz? Why? Everyone already knows about the game. Personally, having seen the quality of the trailer and now knowing much about the game, I'd advise they scrap the game and spend the hundred-and-fifty million bucks on turning that trailer into a hundred-and-eighty minute film.
All we need now is a great space to play in with all the Anti community elements removed. i.e. (Aution Houses/Mail and Guild structures)
Why do you think those are anti-community elements?
They create easy mode scenarios.... And detract from gaming ( I consider gaming more than just getting experience from killing an NPC).
I like to trade / to craft / to kill things if there is danger and risk involved or some form of immersion( There is no rush). All of which probably mean I will be communicating with people ingame. Rather than clicking a button logging off and then on again later.
I believe they all detract from Gameplay and Community but this is my view on what is good gameplay.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
All we need now is a great space to play in with all the Anti community elements removed. i.e. (Aution Houses/Mail and Guild structures)
Why do you think those are anti-community elements?
Because with auction houses the need to sell directly to another player is removed. Now you just list it and your job is done. There is no haggling, there is no offering partial money and some trade or just a simple trade, etc.
With guild halls, especilaly if the guild halls have crafting the and like, there is no need to go into town. No need to go into town and the towns become ghost towns.
So well put. Exactly what I was getting at the simplest things that require no development and some of the best community builders have been removed because of easy mode features.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
All we need now is a great space to play in with all the Anti community elements removed. i.e. (Aution Houses/Mail and Guild structures)
Why do you think those are anti-community elements?
Because with auction houses the need to sell directly to another player is removed. Now you just list it and your job is done. There is no haggling, there is no offering partial money and some trade or just a simple trade, etc.
With guild halls, especilaly if the guild halls have crafting the and like, there is no need to go into town. No need to go into town and the towns become ghost towns.
I don't know if you ever played SWG but they arranged it quite well:
Firstly, they allowed different towns, including player towns, to have auction consoles so you didn't all have to go to the same place to see what was being sold;
Secondly, while you could buy anything you wanted from an aution console, you had to go to the vendor's town to pick it up.
As such, there was plenty of travel and exploration involved - and a lot of community socialising.
And so the story unfolds , very very valid point Safety... These sort of game set-up element mean for netter markets make it hard for people to ruin economies as effort is required and creates a nice balance. Some people have never played games with these element in them and are missing out. For people who want an Arena Game and end game in a week or two then why would they want to play an MMO.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Haven't we gotten some hints as to the sheer size of this game? In that each planet is roughly the size of a continent in WoW? I think much of the costs, from what we know, may just be the amount and polish of content they are putting into the game.
Yes and thats why it is so exciting.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
We really need to see more gameplay of this game. All we have seen so far are classes and they keep naming planets. I also wonder how long it will be before we even get our hands on the game.
The fluidity and capability of the engine just shows where the quality of gameplay can be at. And with the man hours invested it should be good. Hey if not we will get a great solo game and storyline more than worth the box price so its win win either way.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Not in game footage but was their trailer :P When I intially saw it, it reved up the juices in me
Hellgate and Warhammer had kick-ass trailers too.
Learn the lesson.
Bad comparison , there is a difference between learning and being able to differentiate between credible developers. Strange how you picked two games that had failed, ha every game that has released a good trailer failed ? I will answer the question for you it is no.
So yes be cautious but again your example is flawed.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
some1 needs to go back to wow and do the same old grind over and over again so they can see that this game will be #1 for sometime to come after it comes out.
No way.
Great game for KOTOR fans? Probably.
Very good game for Star Wars fans? Maybe. Not if there's no space combat.
Good game for MMO players in general? Not unless they have good crafting, PvP, and end game content. All of those are doubtful at this point.
PvP and endgame are not required if they do this right. As long as they get the content in from day one this will be a major success. there will be doubters but remember these forums are just a small cross section of the bitter and twisted not the real player base.
Some of us come here for alaugh or because we are bored some people seem to be taking this way too seriously. Either that or they are trying to protect the WOW billions.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Isane, some are just discussing games. Ie there is a slight optimism in case of guild wars. Not just because of their announcements, more because Anet delivered an interesting CORPG. For how long did you play a Bioware-game? 20 hours? 60 hours? Maybe some of us are wrong and the devs plan a Roleplayers´ game. I am not sure if this is enough for 1 million subscriptions though. It is not easy to get enough subs with PvP or RP only.
PvP and endgame are not required if they do this right. As long as they get the content in from day one this will be a major success. there will be doubters but remember these forums are just a small cross section of the bitter and twisted not the real player base.
Some of us come here for alaugh or because we are bored some people seem to be taking this way too seriously. Either that or they are trying to protect the WOW billions.
End game is not required? Are you serious?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
PvP and endgame are not required if they do this right. As long as they get the content in from day one this will be a major success. there will be doubters but remember these forums are just a small cross section of the bitter and twisted not the real player base.
Some of us come here for alaugh or because we are bored some people seem to be taking this way too seriously. Either that or they are trying to protect the WOW billions.
End game is not required? Are you serious?
End games it might not be necessary in some themepark games. However, it will required a good replayability value, which I have only seen in superhero games where the variety of possible characters is pretty high.
City of Heroes, arguable has little to none endgame, but their devs has been working on alternatives ways to level like this fallen hero and redeemed villain. Champions is working on creating adventure packs scalable with level and team size.
However, SWTOR has only 8 classes (actually 4 with some differences between factions pairs), so I don't see that much replayability value on alts.
Just to be fair, I think that Isane is referring to raiding content which is different that just adding adventures at cap level. However, those adventures could be still considered as endgame.
Bad comparison , there is a difference between learning and being able to differentiate between credible developers. Strange how you picked two games that had failed, ha every game that has released a good trailer failed ? I will answer the question for you it is no.
So yes be cautious but again your example is flawed.
His point stands. Trailers mean squat. They can be made to misrepresent any game or movie by carefully picking and choosing the scenes shown.
Originally posted by Isane PvP and endgame are not required if they do this right. As long as they get the content in from day one this will be a major success. there will be doubters but remember these forums are just a small cross section of the bitter and twisted not the real player base.
Agreed, if they increase the number of players staying around beyond the free period and increase the average length of subscription with their cutscenes it will be a huge success even without endgame.
But why would they not have endgame? Having an endgame will massively increase the income from longterm, fanatical players and does not require much of an investment. No one will pass on the game because it has endgame so there is no reason not to have it. A good endgame will make the game better an more successful.
there will be doubters but remember these forums are just a small cross section of the bitter and twisted not the real player base.
You mean a small group of well-informed and experienced players who have an eerie ability to predict the success and failure of the mmo offerings.
Seriously though, a doubter can only be pleasantly surprised. And why would anyone jump aboard a bandwagon when we have no idea what the game will actually play like?
PvP and endgame are not required if they do this right. As long as they get the content in from day one this will be a major success. there will be doubters but remember these forums are just a small cross section of the bitter and twisted not the real player base.
Agreed, if they increase the number of players staying around beyond the free period and increase the average length of subscription with their cutscenes it will be a huge success even without endgame.
But why would they not have endgame? Having an endgame will massively increase the income from longterm, fanatical players and does not require much of an investment. No one will pass on the game because it has endgame so there is no reason not to have it. A good endgame will make the game better an more successful.
there will be doubters but remember these forums are just a small cross section of the bitter and twisted not the real player base.
You mean a small group of well-informed and experienced players who have an eerie ability to predict the success and failure of the mmo offerings.
Seriously though, a doubter can only be pleasantly surprised. And why would anyone jump aboard a bandwagon when we have no idea what the game will actually play like?
Why speak against a game when we have no idea what the game will actually play like? Not saying you are, its just like saying 'Why even have an opinion?'
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
Why speak against a game when we have no idea what the game will actually play like? Not saying you are, its just like saying 'Why even have an opinion?'
The same reason why some speak for a game when we have no idea what the game will actually play like. It's extremely difficult to have a true neutral position on a game before release. You're either buying the hype, exciting by what you are imaginging, doubting the hype, skeptical that a dozen good ideas will actually show up in the game, and etc., etc.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
The same reason why some speak for a game when we have no idea what the game will actually play like. It's extremely difficult to have a true neutral position on a game before release. You're either buying the hype, exciting by what you are imaginging, doubting the hype, skeptical that a dozen good ideas will actually show up in the game, and etc., etc.
Exactly.
"What's sauce for the goose is good for the other." Well, something like that.
Most negative posts I have seen have given a reason for the concern. Most positive posts have been along the line of 'I have faith in [insert company name here]".
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
"I have faith in" is a reason too: a track record of a company adds to the equation as much as other aspects, it matters if for example a Cryptic Studio would pick up the franchise or a Bioware.
Where a number of (extreme) fanbois and sceptics go into the wrong, is when they put a lot of emotion and a lot of blindness for the other side's arguments into the mix, losing objectivity in the process. It'll still be an opinion, but it becomes harder for others to take them seriously and to see them more than only as fanbois or flamers/ranters.
Emotion makes posts interesting, but when reason leaves and blindness sets in, it becomes fluff.
I think ToR will do alright, I'd be very surprised if it didn't with the financial backing and talent of Bioware that has been invested in it: the question to me is, will it only do ok or will it be something spectacular?
I foresee that the competition will be hard in 2011, lots of new brilliant kids on the MMO block.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Comments
Learn the lesson.
Yo, Mr Glass half-empty, why not try quoting the whole quote which was the poster who I replied to.
He said, So I wonder why a game like SW:TOR with so much money in it is not able to offer a good trailer or ingame footage. Or did I just miss them?
Anyone, who has an IQ of 20 can clearly see it's a cinematic. But it is a trailer which is what he asked for.
It was my fault, sorry. I didn´t find the right word to describe what I meant.
It´s indeed a wonderful "cinematic" trailer. But I thought of something more ingame-related. The two videos I spoke of seemed to show a more "traditional" gameplay. So I hoped to find a trailersomething, which shows what TOR will make different.
As far as I can tell, its if you liked KOTOR series, you should like the mmo from whats been shown so far.
World of warcraft, did not cost that much to make. It's a load of rubbish. Maybe with all expansions included, including cataclysm, but not at first.
As for the cost of this game. I think it will show. Most of it went into the story I have to admit. Though I for one feel that this is a good thing coming. Though we will have to wait and see.
The trailer proves they aren't holding back any punches in what they are willing to do to make the great game they want. I.E Expensive cinematic.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
some1 needs to go back to wow and do the same old grind over and over again so they can see that this game will be #1 for sometime to come after it comes out.
No way.
Great game for KOTOR fans? Probably.
Very good game for Star Wars fans? Maybe. Not if there's no space combat.
Good game for MMO players in general? Not unless they have good crafting, PvP, and end game content. All of those are doubtful at this point.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Cinematic trailers tell you nothing about the quality of the game. Nothing.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
NIce opening line that may have had some substance to it and then you ask a basic question that infers you don't really have any idea of what they have and haven't included in the game. What is tragic is that you are posting on a SWTOR forumn and do not seem to be upto speed with where the game is at, I suggest you go read up on all the available content . Great stickies with links in this forumn. Read and ENjoy.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Misuse in your opinion only.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
They tell us one thing - why the hell are they spending a million dollars on a trailer when they don't have a game to launch? To generate awareness and buzz? Why? Everyone already knows about the game. Personally, having seen the quality of the trailer and now knowing much about the game, I'd advise they scrap the game and spend the hundred-and-fifty million bucks on turning that trailer into a hundred-and-eighty minute film.
They create easy mode scenarios.... And detract from gaming ( I consider gaming more than just getting experience from killing an NPC).
I like to trade / to craft / to kill things if there is danger and risk involved or some form of immersion( There is no rush). All of which probably mean I will be communicating with people ingame. Rather than clicking a button logging off and then on again later.
I believe they all detract from Gameplay and Community but this is my view on what is good gameplay.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
So well put. Exactly what I was getting at the simplest things that require no development and some of the best community builders have been removed because of easy mode features.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
And so the story unfolds , very very valid point Safety... These sort of game set-up element mean for netter markets make it hard for people to ruin economies as effort is required and creates a nice balance. Some people have never played games with these element in them and are missing out. For people who want an Arena Game and end game in a week or two then why would they want to play an MMO.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Yes and thats why it is so exciting.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
The fluidity and capability of the engine just shows where the quality of gameplay can be at. And with the man hours invested it should be good. Hey if not we will get a great solo game and storyline more than worth the box price so its win win either way.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Bad comparison , there is a difference between learning and being able to differentiate between credible developers. Strange how you picked two games that had failed, ha every game that has released a good trailer failed ? I will answer the question for you it is no.
So yes be cautious but again your example is flawed.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
PvP and endgame are not required if they do this right. As long as they get the content in from day one this will be a major success. there will be doubters but remember these forums are just a small cross section of the bitter and twisted not the real player base.
Some of us come here for alaugh or because we are bored some people seem to be taking this way too seriously. Either that or they are trying to protect the WOW billions.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Isane, some are just discussing games.
Ie there is a slight optimism in case of guild wars. Not just because of their announcements, more because Anet delivered an interesting CORPG.
For how long did you play a Bioware-game? 20 hours? 60 hours?
Maybe some of us are wrong and the devs plan a Roleplayers´ game. I am not sure if this is enough for 1 million subscriptions though.
It is not easy to get enough subs with PvP or RP only.
End game is not required? Are you serious?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
End games it might not be necessary in some themepark games. However, it will required a good replayability value, which I have only seen in superhero games where the variety of possible characters is pretty high.
City of Heroes, arguable has little to none endgame, but their devs has been working on alternatives ways to level like this fallen hero and redeemed villain. Champions is working on creating adventure packs scalable with level and team size.
However, SWTOR has only 8 classes (actually 4 with some differences between factions pairs), so I don't see that much replayability value on alts.
Just to be fair, I think that Isane is referring to raiding content which is different that just adding adventures at cap level. However, those adventures could be still considered as endgame.
His point stands. Trailers mean squat. They can be made to misrepresent any game or movie by carefully picking and choosing the scenes shown.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfwQKapDMws
Let's judge the game when we can see the actual game rather than carefully selected bits and pieces chosen for their value in marketing.
Agreed, if they increase the number of players staying around beyond the free period and increase the average length of subscription with their cutscenes it will be a huge success even without endgame.
But why would they not have endgame? Having an endgame will massively increase the income from longterm, fanatical players and does not require much of an investment. No one will pass on the game because it has endgame so there is no reason not to have it. A good endgame will make the game better an more successful.
You mean a small group of well-informed and experienced players who have an eerie ability to predict the success and failure of the mmo offerings.
Seriously though, a doubter can only be pleasantly surprised. And why would anyone jump aboard a bandwagon when we have no idea what the game will actually play like?
Why speak against a game when we have no idea what the game will actually play like? Not saying you are, its just like saying 'Why even have an opinion?'
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
The same reason why some speak for a game when we have no idea what the game will actually play like. It's extremely difficult to have a true neutral position on a game before release. You're either buying the hype, exciting by what you are imaginging, doubting the hype, skeptical that a dozen good ideas will actually show up in the game, and etc., etc.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
Exactly.
"What's sauce for the goose is good for the other." Well, something like that.
Most negative posts I have seen have given a reason for the concern. Most positive posts have been along the line of 'I have faith in [insert company name here]".
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
"I have faith in" is a reason too: a track record of a company adds to the equation as much as other aspects, it matters if for example a Cryptic Studio would pick up the franchise or a Bioware.
Where a number of (extreme) fanbois and sceptics go into the wrong, is when they put a lot of emotion and a lot of blindness for the other side's arguments into the mix, losing objectivity in the process. It'll still be an opinion, but it becomes harder for others to take them seriously and to see them more than only as fanbois or flamers/ranters.
Emotion makes posts interesting, but when reason leaves and blindness sets in, it becomes fluff.
I think ToR will do alright, I'd be very surprised if it didn't with the financial backing and talent of Bioware that has been invested in it: the question to me is, will it only do ok or will it be something spectacular?
I foresee that the competition will be hard in 2011, lots of new brilliant kids on the MMO block.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."