I am not a regular poster and I do not express myself very well but: I am so sick of instances and instant travels. I play MMO's for the adventure and for the community and atmosphere. I want my party to actually enter a dungeon/castle and meet people along the way who dare to venture alone or another band of travelers.
I dont care if we meet and end up in conflict or become friends and venture futher depth's to conqueror the unknown that lies within!
I want random dungeons (not generated) that are hidden well, so explorer's can come across them. Is it really hard to program a cave inside a cliff that isn't easily seen on the road? What is the whole point in this land mass if there only DUNGEON A, B, and C and they have a big advertizement saying "COME HERE".
Why can't we have many and many hidden depth's located around the world? I just want the simple things (lol even though they might be complicated)
And this Instant traveling BS?
Do away with it (That is my personal opinion, many people like IT and if that is there cup of tea: go ahead and do your thing), I rather travel around on foot, or horse with travelers exploring that ancient ruin's and maybe traveling along the beach to find a shipwreck that was not there yesterday. Let the world revolve. Have a schedule on key events that happen monthly or daily? I stated it before "what is the whole point in this land mass" If I am going to skip it by instant tele'ing to the city and Instant Tele'ing back to the nearest dungeons and not explore.
This may be a rant but blah blah blah!
I support the OP ideas and requests. I want MMOs to be a virtual world without fast travel, without billboards signs that say "go here, Kill this", without quest Icons above NPCs heads. I want a big virtual world... massive... where you actually have to hunt and track to find the NPC your looking for... and also allows you when you get hungry to hunt for venison or wild turkey to satisfy the hunger (character effecting) of your group.
I want a virtual world where Explorers are NEEDED and useful to discover/locate caverns that function as dungeons, and other hidden areas of interest. I want Rogues to not only pick locks, steal and backstab, but also be able to pick up on rumors in towns... rumors that speak of treasure hidden....
What I want is a MMO Virtual world that recreates as closely and detailed as possible the world of pen and paper games like DnD. I would pay big bucks for the privaledge to log into a MMO like this, 5 times the normal MMO subscription just to start with.
No, DDO isn't it. It's not even close. Massive instancing and tiny landscape. Not cool. As far as I am concerned DDO is a good MMO, but is nothing like what the OP asks for and what Iseek as well.
But just as my opinion is irrelevant to Developers, Publishers, and MMO Investors, so too is my preferences in how I believe MMOs should be designed. No one will care what I want and am willing to pay for... no one that makes the decisions that is.
You are right. No one cares. MMOs are games. To be pretentious to be a world is just a recipe for disaster. People want to be entertained, not live another boring life.
I fine that without travel capabilities it hurts the game more than helps, mounts/ teleports /fast travel are a necessity.
I always find statements like "if only their were no maps" or "instances" or "factions" that the game would be instantly better, as if those were the real flaws behind the MMOs, not the terrible gameplay, lack of storyline, or giant hindering flaw.
People often blame WoW for the state of MMOs, sure it has a lot to do with it, but really you cant completely blame one game or company. After all its not the companies fault that people would rather have quick travel instead of epic long walks, and its not Blizzards fault that other companies would rather mimic WoW than be their own thing.
Let go of your hatred, and stop blaming the wrong things and maybe look at the real reason most MMOs "Fail."
Fast/instant travel isnt a necessity, its just what the majority of people want. Theres nothing wrong with that, and its obvious why most would want that. Personally I miss having the travel. I often got a rush when I wandered into a new foreign area in EQ and then accidently ran into a huge sand giant, or dragon. I liked finding really cool looking landmarks or creatures that were just kind of out there. Having the travel time made the world seem HUGE. I really did feel like an ant in the eq world because of how large it seemed to be.
Having the lack of transportation also seemed spread out the population a lot more. You always saw people in every zone and every area. Sure there were spots like EC tunnels where there were tons of people but for the most part you didnt go many places and be left alone. Once PoP came out and we got the instant book travel then it seemed like everyone would just stay in a few spots and all the other zones were dead.
Also I dont think ive ever heard someone say that having no maps instances or factions is what makes or breaks a game. Its just certain features that people enjoy more.
And I dont really think it was blizzards intention to ruin the genre, but that is what happened. By ruin I mean change, it changed the entire genre so that each and every game wanted to be like WoW. Thus, each and every game stripped out many of our favorite features so that the average person would be more inclined to play it.
It may be unfair to hate blizzard for what happened, but the fact is before WoW the mmorpg genre was exactly how many of us wanted it to be. After it was released many of us dont even want to play any of the games.
Speaking for you only. Before WOW, MMOs are tedious and non-fun to me. WOW fixed it. I would never go play UO or EQ again.
I think the 'no instances' thing would work. The Dungeons would have to be very, very long and increase in difficulty on the way down, with bosses every few floors, and then everyone playing in the dungeon at the moment could potentially work together to get deeper and deeper, pushing back hordes of monsters. The dungeon would have to be so ridiculously long it would literally be impossible to completely kill every single monster in it, and each floor would have to be a labyrinth with many many mobs so that people who aren't interested in going further down can still kill stuff.
As mentioned by many, 'hidden dungeons' wouldn't stay hidden the moment someone discovers it, but it would still be a cool thing to do when the game first comes out. Also, if the world is big enough, it would take a considerable amount of time to find all the dungeons (especially if the areas are full of monsters, which would make exploration difficult). Also, the developers could occasionally add dungeons to previously empty areas without announcing it (or at least not announcing where the entrance is).
I also would love a game without instant travel, but it would definitely need a mount system so that you can travel quickly across huge distances, or a train or something that went really fast but only stops at certain places at certain times. WoW did ok with their taxi flying mounts, but even then, i'd like it more if there weren't so many stops.
But that's just me. There's plenty of people who don't have time for a game like that. Maybe for them there could be a system where you tell your player to go to a certain place and he'll automatically walk there, even when you're offline...
Very long dungeons calls into question what you mean by "would work". A niche game could enjoy mediocre success with very long dungeons.
It's pretty well known when designing multiplayer games that as Time Investment Requirement increases, the number of players willing to make that investment decreases. If we're talking about combining no instances, no travel, and very long dungeons, this will result in a very niche game.
The thread's idea of no instancing and no insta-travel is basically the opposite of what most players want: a game where they spend the majority of their time doing the most interesting activities the game offers.
Creative solutions exist. "Travel" is 98% of what I did in Puzzle Pirates, but it was tons of fun because "travel" meant doing interesting things (playing the bilging, rigging, sailing, etc minigames). Travel was the game. It was filled with interesting decisions.
But if we're talking typical MMORPG travel, there's nearly zero interesting decisions involved and therefore it's incredibly tedious. And therefore I'm against any idea that we should drive players to that activity on a frequent basis. Games should be fun. We should want to maximize time spent in the interesting parts of games, and minimize time spent in the dull parts.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Imagine WOW, for its dungeons and its population, no instance dungeons lets say, one group starts, (perhaps a couple of Mob spawns spots in,) 2 members go afk for RL reasons, another party/group wants to start and now you have 2 afk'rs holding up 8-10 players, some one will grief, now thats just two groups, in a game as big as WOW you would have 6-10 groups trying to run it, holy cow what a mess with all the rude players in todays MMO's, Instances alow multy groups to injoy a dungeon without grief. not to mention Spawn rates for bosses, some greedy ass wants to just farm the the boss mobs as they spawn, wont happen with Instance dungeons.
Imagine WOW, for its dungeons and its population, no instance dungeons lets say, one group starts, (perhaps a couple of Mob spawns spots in,) 2 members go afk for RL reasons, another party/group wants to start and now you have 2 afk'rs holding up 8-10 players, some one will grief, now thats just two groups, in a game as big as WOW you would have 6-10 groups trying to run it, holy cow what a mess with all the rude players in todays MMO's, Instances alow multy groups to injoy a dungeon without grief. not to mention Spawn rates for bosses, some greedy ass wants to just farm the the boss mobs as they spawn, wont happen with Instance dungeons.
Many games have a mix between instances and open dungeons. In EQ2 it is usually not a problem.
As long as the dungeon is huge enough and have a lot of bosses it is not a problem. And it is ok to open another instance of the dungeon when you have a certain number of groups in it, say 5 for a medium sized dungeon with 15 nameds or so.
I think you should actually try it before complaining about it. On PvP servers it is rather interesting, you have to be careful and have a ranger who tracks after other people when you fight a boss.
Oh, and tip of the day: the red dots under a word means you spelled it wrong.
I don't know. I played UO from the beginning, and dungeons were terrible. You would wait in line or steal kills or fight over who's turn it was. Nothing like going to a spawn site, seeing a tamer there with 4 dragons and asking ' so, how long do you plan on being here'.
I am sorry you hate casual gamers, but these are GAMES and people want to hop in and play them and have fun. Exploring is fun... once. Running from Thunderbluff to Crossroads that first time on a lvl 10 character was exciting.... once.
The OP probably never played the old games to understand why the changes were made. Dungeons were a nightmare of either wasted time (running across the world to a dungeon, only to find it camped), or else just annoyance where you had to deal with jerks who tried to get the 'last hit' or 'first hit' or whatever was necessary to steal the loot.
I have to agree with the people saying it was fun at one time to have to run. But after being forced to go back and forth over and over it just gets a tad repetetive. In Lineage 2 when it first came out to about c3 it was nice having to run everywhere because I hadn't done it before, it was something new. But after I ran from town to town over and over, it just got very old. The fast travel should work in a way like oblivion. You had to have been there before, then you can travel there faster.
I fine that without travel capabilities it hurts the game more than helps, mounts/ teleports /fast travel are a necessity.
I always find statements like "if only their were no maps" or "instances" or "factions" that the game would be instantly better, as if those were the real flaws behind the MMOs, not the terrible gameplay, lack of storyline, or giant hindering flaw.
People often blame WoW for the state of MMOs, sure it has a lot to do with it, but really you cant completely blame one game or company. After all its not the companies fault that people would rather have quick travel instead of epic long walks, and its not Blizzards fault that other companies would rather mimic WoW than be their own thing.
Let go of your hatred, and stop blaming the wrong things and maybe look at the real reason most MMOs "Fail."
Fast/instant travel isnt a necessity, its just what the majority of people want. Theres nothing wrong with that, and its obvious why most would want that. Personally I miss having the travel. I often got a rush when I wandered into a new foreign area in EQ and then accidently ran into a huge sand giant, or dragon. I liked finding really cool looking landmarks or creatures that were just kind of out there. Having the travel time made the world seem HUGE. I really did feel like an ant in the eq world because of how large it seemed to be.
Having the lack of transportation also seemed spread out the population a lot more. You always saw people in every zone and every area. Sure there were spots like EC tunnels where there were tons of people but for the most part you didnt go many places and be left alone. Once PoP came out and we got the instant book travel then it seemed like everyone would just stay in a few spots and all the other zones were dead.
Also I dont think ive ever heard someone say that having no maps instances or factions is what makes or breaks a game. Its just certain features that people enjoy more.
And I dont really think it was blizzards intention to ruin the genre, but that is what happened. By ruin I mean change, it changed the entire genre so that each and every game wanted to be like WoW. Thus, each and every game stripped out many of our favorite features so that the average person would be more inclined to play it.
It may be unfair to hate blizzard for what happened, but the fact is before WoW the mmorpg genre was exactly how many of us wanted it to be. After it was released many of us dont even want to play any of the games.
Speaking for you only. Before WOW, MMOs are tedious and non-fun to me. WOW fixed it. I would never go play UO or EQ again.
this was a very useless post. I stated numerous times that the majority of people prefer the way mmos are now, at no point did I say thats how every MMORPG should be. I just said theres a very large group of people that are unhappy with how the genre changed directions, and it shows in just this thread. Why do people act like there should only be one type of mmorpg. Is it too much to ask for someone to make 1 or 2 games that focus on the features many of us want? People like you already have WoW, Aion, Warhammer etc etc. What games are out that satisfy our needs? one or two horribly buggy unpolished games that bow to complaints and add in features such as instant travel anyways?
this was a very useless post. I stated numerous times that the majority of people prefer the way mmos are now, at no point did I say thats how every MMORPG should be. I just said theres a very large group of people that are unhappy with how the genre changed directions, and it shows in just this thread. Why do people act like there should only be one type of mmorpg. Is it too much to ask for someone to make 1 or 2 games that focus on the features many of us want? People like you already have WoW, Aion, Warhammer etc etc. What games are out that satisfy our needs? one or two horribly buggy unpolished games that bow to complaints and add in features such as instant travel anyways?
It's precisely the same circle we've gotten into in multiple threads. It appears that the players who like what the MMO genre has become want to ensure that all other players are denied what they'd like in a MMORPG. They don't want to even entertain the idea of one mainstream, modern MMO with anything resembling old school ideals.
this was a very useless post. I stated numerous times that the majority of people prefer the way mmos are now, at no point did I say thats how every MMORPG should be. I just said theres a very large group of people that are unhappy with how the genre changed directions, and it shows in just this thread. Why do people act like there should only be one type of mmorpg. Is it too much to ask for someone to make 1 or 2 games that focus on the features many of us want? People like you already have WoW, Aion, Warhammer etc etc. What games are out that satisfy our needs? one or two horribly buggy unpolished games that bow to complaints and add in features such as instant travel anyways?
It's precisely the same circle we've gotten into in multiple threads. It appears that the players who like what the MMO genre has become want to ensure that all other players are denied what they'd like in a MMORPG. They don't want to even entertain the idea of one mainstream, modern MMO with anything resembling old school ideals.
To be honest, it goes both ways.
People, however, need to realize that there are MMORPGs out there for all sorts of playrs. Fans of modern MMORPGs have WoW, EQ2, LoTRO, AION, SW:TOR, WAR, and others to play while fans of the old school MMORPG have games like Darkfall, Mortal Online, Vanguard, UO (still a great game), EVE, EQ, Xyson, Fallen Earth, and what have you. The fact that there are more modern, themepark oriented games available these days is nothing more than a consequence of the preferences of the majority of MMORPG players.
Likely one over the other doesn't make you any mor superior than anyone who prefers call of Duty over Unreal Tournament -- two completely different games that just happen to fall under the same genre.
People, however, need to realize that there are MMORPGs out there for all sorts of playrs. Fans of modern MMORPGs have WoW, EQ2, LoTRO, AION, SW:TOR, WAR, and others to play while fans of the old school MMORPG have games like Darkfall, Mortal Online, Vanguard, UO (still a great game), EVE, EQ, Xyson, Fallen Earth, and what have you. The fact that there are more modern, themepark oriented games available these days is nothing more than a consequence of the preferences of the majority of MMORPG players.
Likely one over the other doesn't make you any mor superior than anyone who prefers call of Duty over Unreal Tournament -- two completely different games that just happen to fall under the same genre.
The games you mentioned are either incredibly old games, or really buggy unpolished games. I gave vanguard a very honest shot, I even quit and came back after a year because I heard it had some good changes. It had major performance issues and tons of bugs, and hell it even added in instant travel. I never tried darkfall but I heard even worse reviews than with vanguard. Even at its core it offered a bit too much solo quest grinding that we all have come to expect from the genre lately. It had potential for me...but Vanguard felt really lackluster.
I know it might be kind of ignorant to demand a mainstream game, but the mainstream games are usually the only ones that provide that certain polish that many demand.
The inside of the dungeon itself is "instanced" meaning you load into it. However, everyone loads into the same dungeon. Just like UO, just like DAoC (well it was that way when I played, remember DF, it was linked to all 3 realms, AWESOME). On this point we can agree. Instancing is fucked.
Fast Travel. I want another game with the Mark, Recall, Gate System of UO. With runebooks and everything. You cant mark in Dungeons, inside houses etc. Fuck having to ride so far all the time. I dont give a fat rats arse just how good looking your game world is. I want the ability to travel quickly. Its fantasy/sci-fi for fucks sake, its all about the suspension of reality/belief.
You feel like taking the long road to get somewhere everytime? Be my guest, just dont expect me to.
Problem I have with the basis of your argument is that your basing all of your beliefs that traveling is the root.
You mention the surprising you had when traveling around and entering a new zone and being surprised at a monster. That isn't based on fast travel, and more based on being surprised, and new content. Fast Travel really doesn't change any thing about a MMO, most of the time fast travel just gets you into the zone and then you have to mount or run to the dungeon or specific area for a quest.
Instancing solves so many problems, kill stealing, being able to create non raid based bosses (since if you are in a non instance you can just raid him.) Loot/reward distribution. A lot of other people just like (5/small group)man instances, working with 4 buddies to try and kill bosses designed around 5 people can be very entertaining.
Raiding is another problem that instancing solves, A lot of people like to raid, being able to manage your group for specific times to go in and kill a boss without having to worry about "tagging" or any other BS saves a world of headaches, from the Horror stories i have heard of EQ I don't ever want to play a MMO with out instance based Raiding as the primary raids. Its just not worth it.
The biggest problem I have with these comments are that without instancing most games would be crap. (and by most I mean WoW.) I would never have played WoW for as long as I did if it didn't have instance based raiding/small group/pvp.
Also I find your notion of a "large player basis" that wants old school MMO type gaming is probably unfounded, how many is "Large"? If were talking around a million players then you might expect a AAA MMO to try your old school ideals, but sadly Im guessing its probably in the low thousands, meaning at best your going to find only a crap publisher to try and make anything like what you want.
this was a very useless post. I stated numerous times that the majority of people prefer the way mmos are now, at no point did I say thats how every MMORPG should be. I just said theres a very large group of people that are unhappy with how the genre changed directions, and it shows in just this thread. Why do people act like there should only be one type of mmorpg. Is it too much to ask for someone to make 1 or 2 games that focus on the features many of us want? People like you already have WoW, Aion, Warhammer etc etc. What games are out that satisfy our needs? one or two horribly buggy unpolished games that bow to complaints and add in features such as instant travel anyways?
It's precisely the same circle we've gotten into in multiple threads. It appears that the players who like what the MMO genre has become want to ensure that all other players are denied what they'd like in a MMORPG. They don't want to even entertain the idea of one mainstream, modern MMO with anything resembling old school ideals.
ya !i completelly agree with your post!it look like they feel treathened if blizzard was to include both ways of gaming
!lol they arent the same blizzard could include what was in vanilla and have what is wow today ,its not even hard today for them
they could even phaze the darn event just to make sure the casual player can walk freely in azeroth gees
but the way they did it ,is wrong.yes casual are happy at the expense of all the core player ,those that made blizzard get their first million player .both old school and casual can br both included in wow and trive!
I fine that without travel capabilities it hurts the game more than helps, mounts/ teleports /fast travel are a necessity.
I always find statements like "if only their were no maps" or "instances" or "factions" that the game would be instantly better, as if those were the real flaws behind the MMOs, not the terrible gameplay, lack of storyline, or giant hindering flaw.
People often blame WoW for the state of MMOs, sure it has a lot to do with it, but really you cant completely blame one game or company. After all its not the companies fault that people would rather have quick travel instead of epic long walks, and its not Blizzards fault that other companies would rather mimic WoW than be their own thing.
Let go of your hatred, and stop blaming the wrong things and maybe look at the real reason most MMOs "Fail."
Fast/instant travel isnt a necessity, its just what the majority of people want. Theres nothing wrong with that, and its obvious why most would want that. Personally I miss having the travel. I often got a rush when I wandered into a new foreign area in EQ and then accidently ran into a huge sand giant, or dragon. I liked finding really cool looking landmarks or creatures that were just kind of out there. Having the travel time made the world seem HUGE. I really did feel like an ant in the eq world because of how large it seemed to be.
Having the lack of transportation also seemed spread out the population a lot more. You always saw people in every zone and every area. Sure there were spots like EC tunnels where there were tons of people but for the most part you didnt go many places and be left alone. Once PoP came out and we got the instant book travel then it seemed like everyone would just stay in a few spots and all the other zones were dead.
Also I dont think ive ever heard someone say that having no maps instances or factions is what makes or breaks a game. Its just certain features that people enjoy more.
And I dont really think it was blizzards intention to ruin the genre, but that is what happened. By ruin I mean change, it changed the entire genre so that each and every game wanted to be like WoW. Thus, each and every game stripped out many of our favorite features so that the average person would be more inclined to play it.
It may be unfair to hate blizzard for what happened, but the fact is before WoW the mmorpg genre was exactly how many of us wanted it to be. After it was released many of us dont even want to play any of the games.
Speaking for you only. Before WOW, MMOs are tedious and non-fun to me. WOW fixed it. I would never go play UO or EQ again.
this was a very useless post. I stated numerous times that the majority of people prefer the way mmos are now, at no point did I say thats how every MMORPG should be. I just said theres a very large group of people that are unhappy with how the genre changed directions, and it shows in just this thread. Why do people act like there should only be one type of mmorpg. Is it too much to ask for someone to make 1 or 2 games that focus on the features many of us want? People like you already have WoW, Aion, Warhammer etc etc. What games are out that satisfy our needs? one or two horribly buggy unpolished games that bow to complaints and add in features such as instant travel anyways?
Apparently it is if what you ask for costs $50M to make. It is not my problem that you cannot muster up enough customers to support a AAA MMOs with the "features" that you want.
I just read the Fallen Earth is adding an achievement system, probably yielding to players' demand.
And this is not a fairness contest .. the world is not fair. And it will be useful for you to learn WHY some of these "features" will never be popular enough to make a come back. Take down-time as an example. I would argue that there are so few players in the world who want extensive down-time (10 min between fights?) and this is such a deal breaker for almost all players that you will NEVER see it to come back in any major MMOs.
yep! what he means is nobody wants to grind!(i wonder why million love it in asia)
nobody want to have an epic journey (again asia do love those)
nobody want to exeperience very hard puzzle in a mmo(ya right try to convince rom player that they are wrong in loving their puzzle lol)
so i guess in the end what the previous poster meant is the that the whole globe is wrong but america!and that only the casual way will do for every player on the planet that no other way were better before.lol
i could go on page and page like this but the fact is in the end!nothing is just black ,white or gray !there are a lot of color that people also love and 200 million gamer just in asia alone cant all be wrong.same for lot of other area .casual might seem like a big market but it isnt!
Apparently it is if what you ask for costs $50M to make. It is not my problem that you cannot muster up enough customers to support a AAA MMOs with the "features" that you want.
I just read the Fallen Earth is adding an achievement system, probably yielding to players' demand.
And this is not a fairness contest .. the world is not fair. And it will be useful for you to learn WHY some of these "features" will never be popular enough to make a come back. Take down-time as an example. I would argue that there are so few players in the world who want extensive down-time (10 min between fights?) and this is such a deal breaker for almost all players that you will NEVER see it to come back in any major MMOs.
Being content with only one basic model for all mmorpgs is insanity. Its very basic knowledge that if you are going to target a certain group of people you need to offer them something better than what they previously have. So if they are trying to make a game with the "WoW model" in mind then they are actually trying to beat WoW. Its a fact that theres a large number of us that are wanting something different, or wanting our old school features back. Which would be the smarter move for a company, battling over the biggest game in the genre for their fans (who already have other good games battle for those same customers). Or create a new game targeted towards a group of people that dont have anything available to them.
Your example for down time is baffling, I have never played a game where downtime between fights was anywhere even close to 10 mins.
Apparently it is if what you ask for costs $50M to make. It is not my problem that you cannot muster up enough customers to support a AAA MMOs with the "features" that you want.
I just read the Fallen Earth is adding an achievement system, probably yielding to players' demand.
And this is not a fairness contest .. the world is not fair. And it will be useful for you to learn WHY some of these "features" will never be popular enough to make a come back. Take down-time as an example. I would argue that there are so few players in the world who want extensive down-time (10 min between fights?) and this is such a deal breaker for almost all players that you will NEVER see it to come back in any major MMOs
It has nothing to do with "yielding to player demand" but rather the fact that they failed to please their target audience with whatever they promissed. Once the target audience realized that this game was in fact not what they wanted they packed up and left. Now the only recourse Falen Earth will have is to put in simplistic mechanics like an "achievement system" to attract your kind. It seems all it takes is something that basic and players will flock.
Aside from that I don't know what you're doing in this thread anyways or any other with similar themes. You have your games to play. I want to know who died and made you the supreme authority on what is fun and how everybody should subscribe to that same school of thought?
I think what you fail to realize when reading the replies of the many people who posted in this thread is that none of us want YOU in any of the potential games we intend to play or hope get developed. Instead of realizing that said game would NOT be for you, you don your "holier then thou" hat and proceed to beat the rest of us over the head with your zealotry, telling us what is fun. Have you lost your mind? You need to realize that we're not playing your game, we don't inted to play any of the ones that continue to cater to your kind of prefference and IN NO WAY intend to change YOUR game to suit us better. Do you see what I'm talking about? We're not saying "change WOW to accomodate me better" but rather "give me a game that fits my tastes". Nowhere did I say YOU NARRIUSSELDON MUST PLAY MY GAME AND ENJOY IT TREMENDOUSLY! but you seem to see that no matter where you go.
You need to realize that there are differing opinions on things and that more often then not (at least in this thread) other people will not like what you do, and that's OKAY! I want to know why you're so offended by people having different tastes then that of your own? How is me getting enjoyment out of something you don't like going to affect you if you don't do what I'm doing? Do you go out of your way to walk the streets and tell people that whatever brand of beer (assuming you drink) is better then everything else and then proceed to berate them for liking something else?
I've been reading your posts for quite some time now and I just can not understand why these people in this thread offend you so. All I ask is that you answer my questions openly and honestly, while shelving that attitude of yours you have. I just want to understand your point of view better, it's not even about tastes in games anymore for me at least.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
I think instant travel is fine. However, people should only be able to move around this way without their gear. Thus, economies can be localized and trade made to be a viable part. Plus there's still incentive to travel the hard way, as you have to set up a stash in every major hub.
Instances allow more people to experience the same content, but this is a problem with tying too much into such a narrow chokepoint for quests and gear. Games really need to just move away from this paradigm of a small group of heroes accomplishing great feats. The Warhammer Online Public quests were an interesting way of allowing people to cooperate passively and with any number of people, but the mechanic was overused.
come give vangaurd a try, sounds like it would be up your alley. the game pretty empty player wise though but we have a good guild from poster here on MMORPG with over a hundred members, and that keeps us going pretty well.
i like this idea!travel faster only without weapon or armor ,when you are ganked a 15 s (gear)cooldown is started before you can re-equip as soon as you dismount!
Apparently it is if what you ask for costs $50M to make. It is not my problem that you cannot muster up enough customers to support a AAA MMOs with the "features" that you want.
I just read the Fallen Earth is adding an achievement system, probably yielding to players' demand.
And this is not a fairness contest .. the world is not fair. And it will be useful for you to learn WHY some of these "features" will never be popular enough to make a come back. Take down-time as an example. I would argue that there are so few players in the world who want extensive down-time (10 min between fights?) and this is such a deal breaker for almost all players that you will NEVER see it to come back in any major MMOs.
Being content with only one basic model for all mmorpgs is insanity. Its very basic knowledge that if you are going to target a certain group of people you need to offer them something better than what they previously have. So if they are trying to make a game with the "WoW model" in mind then they are actually trying to beat WoW. Its a fact that theres a large number of us that are wanting something different, or wanting our old school features back. Which would be the smarter move for a company, battling over the biggest game in the genre for their fans (who already have other good games battle for those same customers). Or create a new game targeted towards a group of people that dont have anything available to them.
Your example for down time is baffling, I have never played a game where downtime between fights was anywhere even close to 10 mins.
You apparently haven't played a wiz (or caster class) when EQ is first released. If you solo, you can easily sit and stare at a spellbook for 10 min between fights. Grouping is only marginally better.
Oh, there are many different models. WOW is different from TOR, which is different from Secret World, and so on. Companies are smarter to innovate and differentiate in areas which players want (like sci-fi, different combat mechanics, different lore ...) but bringing back bad design (like requiring the players to trek 20 min before the adventure) is not one of those smart things.
It has nothing to do with "yielding to player demand" but rather the fact that they failed to please their target audience with whatever they promissed. Once the target audience realized that this game was in fact not what they wanted they packed up and left. Now the only recourse Falen Earth will have is to put in simplistic mechanics like an "achievement system" to attract your kind. It seems all it takes is something that basic and players will flock.
Or that original target audience does not exist in large enough numbers. I guess the lesser developers have to learn it the hard way.
Aside from that I don't know what you're doing in this thread anyways or any other with similar themes. You have your games to play. I want to know who died and made you the supreme authority on what is fun and how everybody should subscribe to that same school of thought?
It is called expressing an opinion on the Internet. Last time I check, i have as much right to do that as you. And I have 10 min to kill during my lunch break.
I think what you fail to realize when reading the replies of the many people who posted in this thread is that none of us want YOU in any of the potential games we intend to play or hope get developed. Instead of realizing that said game would NOT be for you, you don your "holier then thou" hat and proceed to beat the rest of us over the head with your zealotry, telling us what is fun. Have you lost your mind? You need to realize that we're not playing your game, we don't inted to play any of the ones that continue to cater to your kind of prefference and IN NO WAY intend to change YOUR game to suit us better. Do you see what I'm talking about? We're not saying "change WOW to accomodate me better" but rather "give me a game that fits my tastes". Nowhere did I say YOU NARRIUSSELDON MUST PLAY MY GAME AND ENJOY IT TREMENDOUSLY! but you seem to see that no matter where you go.
So? It is not likely that i will play with you anyway. And see who is talking. If you are telling us about what you think is fun, i see no reason why I cannot do that same.
And this is a MMO forum, it is fair game to express opinion about the state of the business and the likelihood of certain game being produced. If you can't stomach other people thinking your kind of game will never be anything more than niche, you probably aren't cut out for discussions on the internet.
Oh, i am not worried that WOW will be changed. The trend is obvious. That does not mean that i cannot discuss the state of MMOs anyway i see fit.
You need to realize that there are differing opinions on things and that more often then not (at least in this thread) other people will not like what you do, and that's OKAY! I want to know why you're so offended by people having different tastes then that of your own? How is me getting enjoyment out of something you don't like going to affect you if you don't do what I'm doing? Do you go out of your way to walk the streets and tell people that whatever brand of beer (assuming you drink) is better then everything else and then proceed to berate them for liking something else?
I didn't ask you to shut up (which is what you seem to be doing right now). I am not offended but i am certainly entitled to express my opinion as much as you do. If i think it is silly to wait 10 min doing nothing in a game, i will say it. Don't like it ... sue me.
I've been reading your posts for quite some time now and I just can not understand why these people in this thread offend you so. All I ask is that you answer my questions openly and honestly, while shelving that attitude of yours you have. I just want to understand your point of view better, it's not even about tastes in games anymore for me at least.
My point of view is simple. There is a list of things i find fun. There is a list I find no fun and I am not shy of saying which is which. And i am not shy from commenting on the trend of the market.
However, I'm a firm believer that not all opinions are created equal.
An opinion can have more weight, more relevance, more accuracy, and more widely held acceptance as "truth" if it is backed up by solid evidence and factual accuracy.
If I were to say that it is my opinion that the Sun revolves around the Earth, despite being my own personal beliefs these beliefs and thusly my opinion would carry practically no weight nor have any real relevance and be very widely accepted as "wrong" due to the available evidence to the contrary.
So in this context, one could be of the opinion that "non-instanced worlds without instant/fast travel are better" and for their personal beliefs this may true, but to argue against the greater context of said opinion is foolish as there is a remarkable sum of information and statistics available which state that the vast majority prefer some instanced content and faster/instant travel options in their MMORPGs.
If we, the MMORPG crowd are inclined and encouraged to "vote with our wallets" then the answer is very obvious as to which opinion is more dominate, and is thus more widely accepted as "fact" due to the backing of evidence on things like MMO subscription numbers and revenue streams.
Given the real-world facts of life such as time, money, talent, and other such factors that go into the creation of MMO games it is then rational and logical to assume that a game which listens to the majority opinion has a better chance to garner support and as such sales and subscriptions thusly returning the investment made on development and likely creating profit for the all-to-real-world entities of publishers, distributors, stock holders, investors, etc.
To sum it up, just because an opinion is in the majority doesn't mean its right, the masses of the mob can be quite ignorant and fickle, however statistically it is a wise decision and as such we will continue to see a decline in the number of games created without instances and without instant or fast travel options.
As with all things in MMORPG's it's all about perception and it's all about implementation.
True innovation lies in brilliant implementation and original/creative ideas.
Comments
You are right. No one cares. MMOs are games. To be pretentious to be a world is just a recipe for disaster. People want to be entertained, not live another boring life.
Speaking for you only. Before WOW, MMOs are tedious and non-fun to me. WOW fixed it. I would never go play UO or EQ again.
EQ2 is getting even more fast travel soon.
Very long dungeons calls into question what you mean by "would work". A niche game could enjoy mediocre success with very long dungeons.
It's pretty well known when designing multiplayer games that as Time Investment Requirement increases, the number of players willing to make that investment decreases. If we're talking about combining no instances, no travel, and very long dungeons, this will result in a very niche game.
The thread's idea of no instancing and no insta-travel is basically the opposite of what most players want: a game where they spend the majority of their time doing the most interesting activities the game offers.
Creative solutions exist. "Travel" is 98% of what I did in Puzzle Pirates, but it was tons of fun because "travel" meant doing interesting things (playing the bilging, rigging, sailing, etc minigames). Travel was the game. It was filled with interesting decisions.
But if we're talking typical MMORPG travel, there's nearly zero interesting decisions involved and therefore it's incredibly tedious. And therefore I'm against any idea that we should drive players to that activity on a frequent basis. Games should be fun. We should want to maximize time spent in the interesting parts of games, and minimize time spent in the dull parts.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Imagine WOW, for its dungeons and its population, no instance dungeons lets say, one group starts, (perhaps a couple of Mob spawns spots in,) 2 members go afk for RL reasons, another party/group wants to start and now you have 2 afk'rs holding up 8-10 players, some one will grief, now thats just two groups, in a game as big as WOW you would have 6-10 groups trying to run it, holy cow what a mess with all the rude players in todays MMO's, Instances alow multy groups to injoy a dungeon without grief. not to mention Spawn rates for bosses, some greedy ass wants to just farm the the boss mobs as they spawn, wont happen with Instance dungeons.
Many games have a mix between instances and open dungeons. In EQ2 it is usually not a problem.
As long as the dungeon is huge enough and have a lot of bosses it is not a problem. And it is ok to open another instance of the dungeon when you have a certain number of groups in it, say 5 for a medium sized dungeon with 15 nameds or so.
I think you should actually try it before complaining about it. On PvP servers it is rather interesting, you have to be careful and have a ranger who tracks after other people when you fight a boss.
Oh, and tip of the day: the red dots under a word means you spelled it wrong.
I don't know. I played UO from the beginning, and dungeons were terrible. You would wait in line or steal kills or fight over who's turn it was. Nothing like going to a spawn site, seeing a tamer there with 4 dragons and asking ' so, how long do you plan on being here'.
I am sorry you hate casual gamers, but these are GAMES and people want to hop in and play them and have fun. Exploring is fun... once. Running from Thunderbluff to Crossroads that first time on a lvl 10 character was exciting.... once.
The OP probably never played the old games to understand why the changes were made. Dungeons were a nightmare of either wasted time (running across the world to a dungeon, only to find it camped), or else just annoyance where you had to deal with jerks who tried to get the 'last hit' or 'first hit' or whatever was necessary to steal the loot.
I have to agree with the people saying it was fun at one time to have to run. But after being forced to go back and forth over and over it just gets a tad repetetive. In Lineage 2 when it first came out to about c3 it was nice having to run everywhere because I hadn't done it before, it was something new. But after I ran from town to town over and over, it just got very old. The fast travel should work in a way like oblivion. You had to have been there before, then you can travel there faster.
this was a very useless post. I stated numerous times that the majority of people prefer the way mmos are now, at no point did I say thats how every MMORPG should be. I just said theres a very large group of people that are unhappy with how the genre changed directions, and it shows in just this thread. Why do people act like there should only be one type of mmorpg. Is it too much to ask for someone to make 1 or 2 games that focus on the features many of us want? People like you already have WoW, Aion, Warhammer etc etc. What games are out that satisfy our needs? one or two horribly buggy unpolished games that bow to complaints and add in features such as instant travel anyways?
It's precisely the same circle we've gotten into in multiple threads. It appears that the players who like what the MMO genre has become want to ensure that all other players are denied what they'd like in a MMORPG. They don't want to even entertain the idea of one mainstream, modern MMO with anything resembling old school ideals.
To be honest, it goes both ways.
People, however, need to realize that there are MMORPGs out there for all sorts of playrs. Fans of modern MMORPGs have WoW, EQ2, LoTRO, AION, SW:TOR, WAR, and others to play while fans of the old school MMORPG have games like Darkfall, Mortal Online, Vanguard, UO (still a great game), EVE, EQ, Xyson, Fallen Earth, and what have you. The fact that there are more modern, themepark oriented games available these days is nothing more than a consequence of the preferences of the majority of MMORPG players.
Likely one over the other doesn't make you any mor superior than anyone who prefers call of Duty over Unreal Tournament -- two completely different games that just happen to fall under the same genre.
The games you mentioned are either incredibly old games, or really buggy unpolished games. I gave vanguard a very honest shot, I even quit and came back after a year because I heard it had some good changes. It had major performance issues and tons of bugs, and hell it even added in instant travel. I never tried darkfall but I heard even worse reviews than with vanguard. Even at its core it offered a bit too much solo quest grinding that we all have come to expect from the genre lately. It had potential for me...but Vanguard felt really lackluster.
I know it might be kind of ignorant to demand a mainstream game, but the mainstream games are usually the only ones that provide that certain polish that many demand.
Clarification, yes?
The inside of the dungeon itself is "instanced" meaning you load into it. However, everyone loads into the same dungeon. Just like UO, just like DAoC (well it was that way when I played, remember DF, it was linked to all 3 realms, AWESOME). On this point we can agree. Instancing is fucked.
Fast Travel. I want another game with the Mark, Recall, Gate System of UO. With runebooks and everything. You cant mark in Dungeons, inside houses etc. Fuck having to ride so far all the time. I dont give a fat rats arse just how good looking your game world is. I want the ability to travel quickly. Its fantasy/sci-fi for fucks sake, its all about the suspension of reality/belief.
You feel like taking the long road to get somewhere everytime? Be my guest, just dont expect me to.
PAST: UO-SWG-DAOC-WOW-DDO-VG-AOC-WAR-FE-DFO-LOTRO-RIFT-GW2
PRESENT: Nothing
FUTURE: ESO
Problem I have with the basis of your argument is that your basing all of your beliefs that traveling is the root.
You mention the surprising you had when traveling around and entering a new zone and being surprised at a monster. That isn't based on fast travel, and more based on being surprised, and new content. Fast Travel really doesn't change any thing about a MMO, most of the time fast travel just gets you into the zone and then you have to mount or run to the dungeon or specific area for a quest.
Instancing solves so many problems, kill stealing, being able to create non raid based bosses (since if you are in a non instance you can just raid him.) Loot/reward distribution. A lot of other people just like (5/small group)man instances, working with 4 buddies to try and kill bosses designed around 5 people can be very entertaining.
Raiding is another problem that instancing solves, A lot of people like to raid, being able to manage your group for specific times to go in and kill a boss without having to worry about "tagging" or any other BS saves a world of headaches, from the Horror stories i have heard of EQ I don't ever want to play a MMO with out instance based Raiding as the primary raids. Its just not worth it.
The biggest problem I have with these comments are that without instancing most games would be crap. (and by most I mean WoW.) I would never have played WoW for as long as I did if it didn't have instance based raiding/small group/pvp.
Also I find your notion of a "large player basis" that wants old school MMO type gaming is probably unfounded, how many is "Large"? If were talking around a million players then you might expect a AAA MMO to try your old school ideals, but sadly Im guessing its probably in the low thousands, meaning at best your going to find only a crap publisher to try and make anything like what you want.
ya !i completelly agree with your post!it look like they feel treathened if blizzard was to include both ways of gaming
!lol they arent the same blizzard could include what was in vanilla and have what is wow today ,its not even hard today for them
they could even phaze the darn event just to make sure the casual player can walk freely in azeroth gees
but the way they did it ,is wrong.yes casual are happy at the expense of all the core player ,those that made blizzard get their first million player .both old school and casual can br both included in wow and trive!
Apparently it is if what you ask for costs $50M to make. It is not my problem that you cannot muster up enough customers to support a AAA MMOs with the "features" that you want.
I just read the Fallen Earth is adding an achievement system, probably yielding to players' demand.
And this is not a fairness contest .. the world is not fair. And it will be useful for you to learn WHY some of these "features" will never be popular enough to make a come back. Take down-time as an example. I would argue that there are so few players in the world who want extensive down-time (10 min between fights?) and this is such a deal breaker for almost all players that you will NEVER see it to come back in any major MMOs.
yep! what he means is nobody wants to grind!(i wonder why million love it in asia)
nobody want to have an epic journey (again asia do love those)
nobody want to exeperience very hard puzzle in a mmo(ya right try to convince rom player that they are wrong in loving their puzzle lol)
so i guess in the end what the previous poster meant is the that the whole globe is wrong but america!and that only the casual way will do for every player on the planet that no other way were better before.lol
i could go on page and page like this but the fact is in the end!nothing is just black ,white or gray !there are a lot of color that people also love and 200 million gamer just in asia alone cant all be wrong.same for lot of other area .casual might seem like a big market but it isnt!
Being content with only one basic model for all mmorpgs is insanity. Its very basic knowledge that if you are going to target a certain group of people you need to offer them something better than what they previously have. So if they are trying to make a game with the "WoW model" in mind then they are actually trying to beat WoW. Its a fact that theres a large number of us that are wanting something different, or wanting our old school features back. Which would be the smarter move for a company, battling over the biggest game in the genre for their fans (who already have other good games battle for those same customers). Or create a new game targeted towards a group of people that dont have anything available to them.
Your example for down time is baffling, I have never played a game where downtime between fights was anywhere even close to 10 mins.
It has nothing to do with "yielding to player demand" but rather the fact that they failed to please their target audience with whatever they promissed. Once the target audience realized that this game was in fact not what they wanted they packed up and left. Now the only recourse Falen Earth will have is to put in simplistic mechanics like an "achievement system" to attract your kind. It seems all it takes is something that basic and players will flock.
Aside from that I don't know what you're doing in this thread anyways or any other with similar themes. You have your games to play. I want to know who died and made you the supreme authority on what is fun and how everybody should subscribe to that same school of thought?
I think what you fail to realize when reading the replies of the many people who posted in this thread is that none of us want YOU in any of the potential games we intend to play or hope get developed. Instead of realizing that said game would NOT be for you, you don your "holier then thou" hat and proceed to beat the rest of us over the head with your zealotry, telling us what is fun. Have you lost your mind? You need to realize that we're not playing your game, we don't inted to play any of the ones that continue to cater to your kind of prefference and IN NO WAY intend to change YOUR game to suit us better. Do you see what I'm talking about? We're not saying "change WOW to accomodate me better" but rather "give me a game that fits my tastes". Nowhere did I say YOU NARRIUSSELDON MUST PLAY MY GAME AND ENJOY IT TREMENDOUSLY! but you seem to see that no matter where you go.
You need to realize that there are differing opinions on things and that more often then not (at least in this thread) other people will not like what you do, and that's OKAY! I want to know why you're so offended by people having different tastes then that of your own? How is me getting enjoyment out of something you don't like going to affect you if you don't do what I'm doing? Do you go out of your way to walk the streets and tell people that whatever brand of beer (assuming you drink) is better then everything else and then proceed to berate them for liking something else?
I've been reading your posts for quite some time now and I just can not understand why these people in this thread offend you so. All I ask is that you answer my questions openly and honestly, while shelving that attitude of yours you have. I just want to understand your point of view better, it's not even about tastes in games anymore for me at least.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
I think instant travel is fine. However, people should only be able to move around this way without their gear. Thus, economies can be localized and trade made to be a viable part. Plus there's still incentive to travel the hard way, as you have to set up a stash in every major hub.
Instances allow more people to experience the same content, but this is a problem with tying too much into such a narrow chokepoint for quests and gear. Games really need to just move away from this paradigm of a small group of heroes accomplishing great feats. The Warhammer Online Public quests were an interesting way of allowing people to cooperate passively and with any number of people, but the mechanic was overused.
come give vangaurd a try, sounds like it would be up your alley. the game pretty empty player wise though but we have a good guild from poster here on MMORPG with over a hundred members, and that keeps us going pretty well.
come on give it a try
i like this idea!travel faster only without weapon or armor ,when you are ganked a 15 s (gear)cooldown is started before you can re-equip as soon as you dismount!
You apparently haven't played a wiz (or caster class) when EQ is first released. If you solo, you can easily sit and stare at a spellbook for 10 min between fights. Grouping is only marginally better.
Oh, there are many different models. WOW is different from TOR, which is different from Secret World, and so on. Companies are smarter to innovate and differentiate in areas which players want (like sci-fi, different combat mechanics, different lore ...) but bringing back bad design (like requiring the players to trek 20 min before the adventure) is not one of those smart things.
It has nothing to do with "yielding to player demand" but rather the fact that they failed to please their target audience with whatever they promissed. Once the target audience realized that this game was in fact not what they wanted they packed up and left. Now the only recourse Falen Earth will have is to put in simplistic mechanics like an "achievement system" to attract your kind. It seems all it takes is something that basic and players will flock.
Or that original target audience does not exist in large enough numbers. I guess the lesser developers have to learn it the hard way.
Aside from that I don't know what you're doing in this thread anyways or any other with similar themes. You have your games to play. I want to know who died and made you the supreme authority on what is fun and how everybody should subscribe to that same school of thought?
It is called expressing an opinion on the Internet. Last time I check, i have as much right to do that as you. And I have 10 min to kill during my lunch break.
I think what you fail to realize when reading the replies of the many people who posted in this thread is that none of us want YOU in any of the potential games we intend to play or hope get developed. Instead of realizing that said game would NOT be for you, you don your "holier then thou" hat and proceed to beat the rest of us over the head with your zealotry, telling us what is fun. Have you lost your mind? You need to realize that we're not playing your game, we don't inted to play any of the ones that continue to cater to your kind of prefference and IN NO WAY intend to change YOUR game to suit us better. Do you see what I'm talking about? We're not saying "change WOW to accomodate me better" but rather "give me a game that fits my tastes". Nowhere did I say YOU NARRIUSSELDON MUST PLAY MY GAME AND ENJOY IT TREMENDOUSLY! but you seem to see that no matter where you go.
So? It is not likely that i will play with you anyway. And see who is talking. If you are telling us about what you think is fun, i see no reason why I cannot do that same.
And this is a MMO forum, it is fair game to express opinion about the state of the business and the likelihood of certain game being produced. If you can't stomach other people thinking your kind of game will never be anything more than niche, you probably aren't cut out for discussions on the internet.
Oh, i am not worried that WOW will be changed. The trend is obvious. That does not mean that i cannot discuss the state of MMOs anyway i see fit.
You need to realize that there are differing opinions on things and that more often then not (at least in this thread) other people will not like what you do, and that's OKAY! I want to know why you're so offended by people having different tastes then that of your own? How is me getting enjoyment out of something you don't like going to affect you if you don't do what I'm doing? Do you go out of your way to walk the streets and tell people that whatever brand of beer (assuming you drink) is better then everything else and then proceed to berate them for liking something else?
I didn't ask you to shut up (which is what you seem to be doing right now). I am not offended but i am certainly entitled to express my opinion as much as you do. If i think it is silly to wait 10 min doing nothing in a game, i will say it. Don't like it ... sue me.
I've been reading your posts for quite some time now and I just can not understand why these people in this thread offend you so. All I ask is that you answer my questions openly and honestly, while shelving that attitude of yours you have. I just want to understand your point of view better, it's not even about tastes in games anymore for me at least.
My point of view is simple. There is a list of things i find fun. There is a list I find no fun and I am not shy of saying which is which. And i am not shy from commenting on the trend of the market.
Opinions are like assholes - everyone has one.
However, I'm a firm believer that not all opinions are created equal.
An opinion can have more weight, more relevance, more accuracy, and more widely held acceptance as "truth" if it is backed up by solid evidence and factual accuracy.
If I were to say that it is my opinion that the Sun revolves around the Earth, despite being my own personal beliefs these beliefs and thusly my opinion would carry practically no weight nor have any real relevance and be very widely accepted as "wrong" due to the available evidence to the contrary.
So in this context, one could be of the opinion that "non-instanced worlds without instant/fast travel are better" and for their personal beliefs this may true, but to argue against the greater context of said opinion is foolish as there is a remarkable sum of information and statistics available which state that the vast majority prefer some instanced content and faster/instant travel options in their MMORPGs.
If we, the MMORPG crowd are inclined and encouraged to "vote with our wallets" then the answer is very obvious as to which opinion is more dominate, and is thus more widely accepted as "fact" due to the backing of evidence on things like MMO subscription numbers and revenue streams.
Given the real-world facts of life such as time, money, talent, and other such factors that go into the creation of MMO games it is then rational and logical to assume that a game which listens to the majority opinion has a better chance to garner support and as such sales and subscriptions thusly returning the investment made on development and likely creating profit for the all-to-real-world entities of publishers, distributors, stock holders, investors, etc.
To sum it up, just because an opinion is in the majority doesn't mean its right, the masses of the mob can be quite ignorant and fickle, however statistically it is a wise decision and as such we will continue to see a decline in the number of games created without instances and without instant or fast travel options.
As with all things in MMORPG's it's all about perception and it's all about implementation.
True innovation lies in brilliant implementation and original/creative ideas.