or they turn around and create their own content(neverwinternight (1)was baffled to see a live dude in xfire posting his fun
ton of content since a huge amount is player made.kind of cool when i thing mack on it!no more hassle with corp trying to define because they want to save 5 buck and still get your 15 monthly!
It's not over for the "true" fans of fantasy mmorpg's.. The "real" oldschool fans of the mmorpg fantasy genre are going to be blown away with the new MMORPG being developed by Curt Schilling's 38 Studios, along with R.A Salvatore and Todd Mcfarlene...
This MMORPG won't listen to the fake fps/mmo hybrid retarded gamers who don't enjoy working hard to achieve their goals, exploring vast distances to reach their destination, and harsh death penalties..
By no means am I saying you are a fanboy, but that sure reads like a fanboy post.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I believe this game will be the true successor to Everquest... Only time will tell
And I believe like Vanguard, they'll have 50k players maximum!
That is, if they finish it and actually release a stable, playable game.
But hey, as long as they can make enough money with their 50k player base and box sales to keep the game up and running and supported, then enjoy your little niche game and stop bashing what we enjoy.
END OF LINE
btw- EQ1 was a piece of sh!t... UO was 1000x better and the REAL true MMORPG.. well, not counting Meridan 59 of course lol. But that was skill based too! EQ was the demon that changed MMOs from open world sandboxes to class/level bull.
Vanguard and Saga of Heroes is your game. Huge expanses to explore and even after they added teleporters, you still spend a lot of time traveling around.
.
The game was unpopular. There are rumors that it will shut down soon.
.
long travel times == unpopular game == loss of money for investors
Using misinformation to prove a point is bad.
Vanguard did have a big world and did have longer travel times, but that is not what caused the game to be unpopular.
It launched with bugs so bad that it crashed 2-3 times an hour and wiped all your character information when it did. I know because I played it on day one. So you'd play and level up and then crash and your character was back in the newbie area with no info on him. They got the 2-3 times an hour finally down to every couple hours but it still would wipe game information a lot.
That drove a huge portion of the original players off to never return again, it was not due to the large world in any way.
.
How do you know?
.
The tediously long travel times in Vanguard was one factor. Other factors like a harsh death penalty and lack of content like quests also played a part.
.
Most of those bugs have been fixed. Why does Vanguard's population still dwindle?
Haven't been around MMOs long huh?
When you have major, and in this case extremely severe, bugs at launch you lose the MAJORITY of your player base. Fixing those bugs later gains you nothing as you've already lost the players. Most MMO players will never go back to a game they left due to issues. It all comes down to how smoothly you launch, and in Vanguard's case it was literally the worst launch in MMO history, and that sealed it's fate forever.
Its such a shame that exploration isn't more popular with the masses.
I always enjoyed riding around a game world, finding caves and ruins, Random Quest givers and rare mobs.
You would think that mmo gamers would want that other than hub to hub progress and an endgame.
Eve when I played WoW i often roamed around trying to find unfinished content or just killing mobs in npc camps.
I remember this Ogre settlement in a zone named feralas that had only 1 quest linked to it. I used to love thrashing those mobs for fun it was a massive area designed for exploration.
Also there used to be this area of Murlocs in Azshura (spelling) that was way out into the water there was a rare mob, and multiple pilars filled with mobs for no reason other than exploration.
I know its lame that im brining up WoW. I think exploration is up to the player even the basic themepark games have elements of it and you need to seek it out. This is done decently in WoW or atleast it was.
Ignore the quest givers and WoW is the best open-world sandbox to explore and level up in.
Think about it.
Half of my max level characters were leveled mostly ignoring the quest givers.
I have a strange addiction to grinding mobs and roaming every inch of the map.
This is why I play more free form sandbox games now.
Leveling up on a very active pvp server in WoW was very close to my experiences in sandbox games when it comes to straight exploration and mob hunting.
Edit: with that said there's more to sandbox games than free roam grinding and not using the quest givers.
Ignore the quest givers and any MMO is the best open-world sandbox to explore and level up in.
Think about it.
To be fair, even if cartoony, WoW has great environments to walk around in, a credit to the ones who made these areas. Good, fitting atmosphere in many areas.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Ignore the quest givers and WoW is the best open-world sandbox to explore and level up in.
Think about it.
Half of my max level characters were leveled mostly ignoring the quest givers.
I have a strange addiction to grinding mobs and roaming every inch of the map.
This is why I play more free form sandbox games now.
Leveling up on a very active pvp server in WoW was very close to my experiences in sandbox games when it comes to straight exploration and mob hunting.
Most of the time in wow, my leveling was done while exploring. Same with Lord of the Rings. I also play vanguard for my exploration kick.
This is why when people starting going on about themepark games being quest treadmills I say "unplug!" "do your own thing!"
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
While I do like to explore game environments, I do think as far as MMO's go it really has never been done well. I've yet to see an MMO world that trully gave that feeling of discovery. Some single player RPG's have done it well, Morrowind especially, and to a lesser yet still decent enough degree Oblivion. Those are really the only games I've felt intrigued by exploring their worlds.
Part of that is archeological pursuit. In the games above you find interesting tidbits of lore in your travels, telling a greater story of the world you're in. MMO's rarely offer incintives such as this, that promote exploring and discovery. Anything and everything put into them is basically there for xp and not much else.
Vanguard had it's discovery system which was a step in such a direction. It still didn't feel like you were actually discovering anything, at least to me anyway.
The way I look at it is, if you're not going to do something right, you might as well not do it at all. Which maybe that's how MMO devs have felt for the past few years. There's no reason to waste resources on features only a handful of your players will enjoy. Especially when retention is the most important factor to them.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
you are right lore gives a greater feel to a game.i recall when i first began to read the wow lore in books and understood it was actually the lore of wow i never read them all since i would have had to cheat in order to find them but still those i saw made the journey worth it !
you are right lore gives a greater feel to a game.i recall when i first began to read the wow lore in books and understood it was actually the lore of wow i never read them all since i would have had to cheat in order to find them but still those i saw made the journey worth it !
Lore helped exploration in WoW due to all the little books lying around. You got quite a bit of information about the lore through the books if u skipped most of the quests like I did.
I know the Novels of Eve helped me futher immerse myself in that game.
So I would say overall Lore is also a big part of it. I mean you want to explore places of inverest, like old shrines and ruins that mean something.
You forgot the... for you..... Unless of course you're the authority on what's good and what's bad.
It's the internet.
It's a web forum.
If I have to add IMO or anything like that crap so you understand that anything I say is purely my opinion, then you are just picky and need to post something constructive rather then waste everyone's time.
Devs love grind - repeating content. You can't grind exploration. Once your character has seen a place, it's explored.
I suppose you could wipe players' maps every month or so, but that would piss off a lot of people.
Your point of "devs love grind" is not necessarily true. Devs love getting paid, and those giving said payment dictate the direction of the game. What devs DO love is reusable content and objects. Things like textures that can be applied in different ways at different places or character models that can be skinned differently but are essentially the same, ala Dark Age of Camelot, which I thoroughly enjoy, but they do use similar NPC and MOB models heavily. When you're writing code or working with the elements of the game that fill massive land areas, you can severely hamstring yourself if you try to make things too diverse. That's where the importance of differing gameplay mechanics and class diversity comes into play. DAoC to almost anyone who played it (not including ToA) was an excellent game, and still is. They say that imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, and WoW most certainly imitated DAoC.
There's a lot of talk about the mysterious "devs" on this forum, and while some of it is warranted, a lot of it is bunk. The devs have limited control, and even if they did create a breakthrough game element, it could be cut at go-time by the powers that be. In my view, the devs make fun games possible. Of course some are better than others, but for the most part we have them to thank for the fun games we play.
you are right lore gives a greater feel to a game.i recall when i first began to read the wow lore in books and understood it was actually the lore of wow i never read them all since i would have had to cheat in order to find them but still those i saw made the journey worth it !
Oh, excuse my ignorance I was unaware WOW offered that, it actually almost makes me want to play it. That's my favorite aspect of Elder Scrolls rpg's.
I really only played WOW back in early 05' got to 40 something and traded off my account to an SWG guildie. Kind of makes me wish I stuck around a little longer now.. LOL.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Devs love grind - repeating content. You can't grind exploration. Once your character has seen a place, it's explored.
I suppose you could wipe players' maps every month or so, but that would piss off a lot of people.
Your point of "devs love grind" is not necessarily true. Devs love getting paid, and those giving said payment dictate the direction of the game. What devs DO love is reusable content and objects. Things like textures that can be applied in different ways at different places or character models that can be skinned differently but are essentially the same, ala Dark Age of Camelot, which I thoroughly enjoy, but they do use similar NPC and MOB models heavily. When you're writing code or working with the elements of the game that fill massive land areas, you can severely hamstring yourself if you try to make things too diverse. That's where the importance of differing gameplay mechanics and class diversity comes into play. DAoC to almost anyone who played it (not including ToA) was an excellent game, and still is. They say that imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, and WoW most certainly imitated DAoC.
There's a lot of talk about the mysterious "devs" on this forum, and while some of it is warranted, a lot of it is bunk. The devs have limited control, and even if they did create a breakthrough game element, it could be cut at go-time by the powers that be. In my view, the devs make fun games possible. Of course some are better than others, but for the most part we have them to thank for the fun games we play.
insanex
amen
there exists this great conspiracy on mmorpg.com that devs try and make games that are no good and no fun. that's just illogical and quite frankly shows a severe lack of common sense and imagination on the part of the moronic posters who propagate these conspiracies.
Comments
or they turn around and create their own content(neverwinternight (1)was baffled to see a live dude in xfire posting his fun
ton of content since a huge amount is player made.kind of cool when i thing mack on it!no more hassle with corp trying to define because they want to save 5 buck and still get your 15 monthly!
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
And I believe like Vanguard, they'll have 50k players maximum!
That is, if they finish it and actually release a stable, playable game.
But hey, as long as they can make enough money with their 50k player base and box sales to keep the game up and running and supported, then enjoy your little niche game and stop bashing what we enjoy.
END OF LINE
btw- EQ1 was a piece of sh!t... UO was 1000x better and the REAL true MMORPG.. well, not counting Meridan 59 of course lol. But that was skill based too! EQ was the demon that changed MMOs from open world sandboxes to class/level bull.
Haven't been around MMOs long huh?
When you have major, and in this case extremely severe, bugs at launch you lose the MAJORITY of your player base. Fixing those bugs later gains you nothing as you've already lost the players. Most MMO players will never go back to a game they left due to issues. It all comes down to how smoothly you launch, and in Vanguard's case it was literally the worst launch in MMO history, and that sealed it's fate forever.
r.a salvatore is a good writer i read his story but getting is idea on a screen might be a lot more work then that studio is willing to put on!
Its such a shame that exploration isn't more popular with the masses.
I always enjoyed riding around a game world, finding caves and ruins, Random Quest givers and rare mobs.
You would think that mmo gamers would want that other than hub to hub progress and an endgame.
Eve when I played WoW i often roamed around trying to find unfinished content or just killing mobs in npc camps.
I remember this Ogre settlement in a zone named feralas that had only 1 quest linked to it. I used to love thrashing those mobs for fun it was a massive area designed for exploration.
Also there used to be this area of Murlocs in Azshura (spelling) that was way out into the water there was a rare mob, and multiple pilars filled with mobs for no reason other than exploration.
I know its lame that im brining up WoW. I think exploration is up to the player even the basic themepark games have elements of it and you need to seek it out. This is done decently in WoW or atleast it was.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Ignore the quest givers and WoW is the best open-world sandbox to explore and level up in.
Think about it.
xsyon
You might want to think a little more about the definition of sand box game.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Half of my max level characters were leveled mostly ignoring the quest givers.
I have a strange addiction to grinding mobs and roaming every inch of the map.
This is why I play more free form sandbox games now.
Leveling up on a very active pvp server in WoW was very close to my experiences in sandbox games when it comes to straight exploration and mob hunting.
Edit: with that said there's more to sandbox games than free roam grinding and not using the quest givers.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Ignore the quest givers and any MMO is the best open-world sandbox to explore and level up in.
Think about it.
To be fair, even if cartoony, WoW has great environments to walk around in, a credit to the ones who made these areas. Good, fitting atmosphere in many areas.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
As someone who started with UO in 98 and never played EQ because it was crap, and moved from UO to SWG at launch I think I know.
Most of the time in wow, my leveling was done while exploring. Same with Lord of the Rings. I also play vanguard for my exploration kick.
This is why when people starting going on about themepark games being quest treadmills I say "unplug!" "do your own thing!"
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
rock there are a lot of those you mention the problem, they are way less vocal then the others.they dont need to play wow
there are other alternative they bring their guild with them and go play a mmo ,they know wow became a mo so they left
they didnt want to bother with the convincing and i cannot blame them but dont sweat it
bring back the massive in the mo that is wow today and you ll see how many massive lover there are!(its a huge amount
of player)but true they arent very vocal!
Vanguard has 50k subs? and here I am praising Ryzom and how wonderful a exploration experience it is and the game has around 5k subs hehe!
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
While I do like to explore game environments, I do think as far as MMO's go it really has never been done well. I've yet to see an MMO world that trully gave that feeling of discovery. Some single player RPG's have done it well, Morrowind especially, and to a lesser yet still decent enough degree Oblivion. Those are really the only games I've felt intrigued by exploring their worlds.
Part of that is archeological pursuit. In the games above you find interesting tidbits of lore in your travels, telling a greater story of the world you're in. MMO's rarely offer incintives such as this, that promote exploring and discovery. Anything and everything put into them is basically there for xp and not much else.
Vanguard had it's discovery system which was a step in such a direction. It still didn't feel like you were actually discovering anything, at least to me anyway.
The way I look at it is, if you're not going to do something right, you might as well not do it at all. Which maybe that's how MMO devs have felt for the past few years. There's no reason to waste resources on features only a handful of your players will enjoy. Especially when retention is the most important factor to them.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
you are right lore gives a greater feel to a game.i recall when i first began to read the wow lore in books and understood it was actually the lore of wow i never read them all since i would have had to cheat in order to find them but still those i saw made the journey worth it !
mo?did he mean multiplayer online or did he mean the game mortal online completelly different thing to hate!
Sorry I just don't like fanboys tell me what I know or don't know about myself. It's just... illogical.
In the end -exploration is a state of mind.
In any game you can explore, but it requires you to put aside what the developers are trying to show you and follow your own path.
Some love to do this, some love when the developers reward them for their unique play style.
Some just want to have fun and don't like wasting time.
To each their own.
The only real thing that I hate is when developers try to actively limit exploration.
I really liked the look and feel of WAR, but I hated how there was absolutely no room for exploration outside of the rails they sent you on.
Even WoW is/was 10000x better in terms of exploration and feeling like an open world to explore.
Lore helped exploration in WoW due to all the little books lying around. You got quite a bit of information about the lore through the books if u skipped most of the quests like I did.
I know the Novels of Eve helped me futher immerse myself in that game.
So I would say overall Lore is also a big part of it. I mean you want to explore places of inverest, like old shrines and ruins that mean something.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
It's the internet.
It's a web forum.
If I have to add IMO or anything like that crap so you understand that anything I say is purely my opinion, then you are just picky and need to post something constructive rather then waste everyone's time.
Your point of "devs love grind" is not necessarily true. Devs love getting paid, and those giving said payment dictate the direction of the game. What devs DO love is reusable content and objects. Things like textures that can be applied in different ways at different places or character models that can be skinned differently but are essentially the same, ala Dark Age of Camelot, which I thoroughly enjoy, but they do use similar NPC and MOB models heavily. When you're writing code or working with the elements of the game that fill massive land areas, you can severely hamstring yourself if you try to make things too diverse. That's where the importance of differing gameplay mechanics and class diversity comes into play. DAoC to almost anyone who played it (not including ToA) was an excellent game, and still is. They say that imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, and WoW most certainly imitated DAoC.
There's a lot of talk about the mysterious "devs" on this forum, and while some of it is warranted, a lot of it is bunk. The devs have limited control, and even if they did create a breakthrough game element, it could be cut at go-time by the powers that be. In my view, the devs make fun games possible. Of course some are better than others, but for the most part we have them to thank for the fun games we play.
insanex
Oh, excuse my ignorance I was unaware WOW offered that, it actually almost makes me want to play it. That's my favorite aspect of Elder Scrolls rpg's.
I really only played WOW back in early 05' got to 40 something and traded off my account to an SWG guildie. Kind of makes me wish I stuck around a little longer now.. LOL.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
amen
there exists this great conspiracy on mmorpg.com that devs try and make games that are no good and no fun. that's just illogical and quite frankly shows a severe lack of common sense and imagination on the part of the moronic posters who propagate these conspiracies.
I blame the spoonfed generation for the downfall of MMO industry.
[Mod Edit]
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.