so wow might call itself a mmo but every gamer knows that eve is the true representation of what is a mmo in the view of gamer
Obviously the amount of details shown in wow and eve in terms of graphic and data is alot difference.
If it's ever possible in eve to show 1500 different space shuttle on your screen showing all the detailed movement of all the ship let me know.
they can do it have do it ,not sure now since they ve been hard at work on upgrading their gear and programing for their patch and all(they had shut down a big chunk of their server dont know if they are back up!check their site they own the world recorn for concurrent user cant recall i think it was 60 000 .1700 in jita alone!and the news i say is old news since i havent checked their website in months!
ah...400 users in a system, not a station, crashes a system in most cases.
then we will have to add a word to split wow from eve
dont get me wrong wow is a great multiplayer gamer
but i consider eve a good massive multiplayer game
i wish i knew a word to add to eve mmo to make sure poeple didnt say they are in the same boat but frankly i dont know what word could be added to mmo.mmmo(nha that suck lol)like i say wow had it in the original wow but they lost it at their first expension!its sad!
Have to be honest with you here DrB. I get what your saying, I think everybody who has looked at this thread gets what you are saying. Not sure if you do as you seem to keep making the same point. Unfortunatly nobody made you the game genre definig grand master. Eve and WoW are not the same kind of game. I am sure they never wanted to be. Yet they both fall under the bubble of mmorpgs. I'm sorry a game you don't like in its current form is assosiated with one that you do. But that is just the way it is. It's not up to you to decide for everybody else.
You can say a lot about this game, but to say WOW is not an MMORPG is beyond reaching if you ask me.
I didn't like the direction Blizzard was heading as far back as the introduction of BGs, and I left soon after they were implemented. Since then the game really has become a shadow of it's former self, but that doesn't mean it has suddenly jumped out of the genre and metamorphosized into something completely different.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
LOl, though I do not agree with your opinion on this one Mr Daywolf, this is a damb funny post, there's no denying it.
Hah! you mean the part where I said it is an mmo? OP has some good points, but I don't necessarily agree with it all. If you can get 100 people into the same area, I'd say it's an mmo. However, WoW is really designed to play like a multi-player RPG (like Diablo), but has the technology to pass for an mmorpg to some degree, thus you pay a sub for it I really don’t see it hard to come to that conclusion, it’s pretty common now a days, it’s old game design used in RPG’s for years as Blizzard had mastered even before WoW.
Yep, This bit right here was the part I was not agreeing with. Explaine to me how that makes it difernt to any other theampark game on the market? Or are you saying that no games released since wow in this sub niche of the genre are true mmos? not trying to put words in your mouth here Mr Wolf, just asking for clarification.
Technically yes, but by design, no. It's like if you understand the layers of a computer system, one layer operates the layer below all the way down to the BIOS operations. You can see parts of that mmo layer poking up here and there in WoW, but it is another layer built on top of it effectively. Where you have linear game play, whether you like that or not being besides the point, it's old style RPG gaming, added that with instancing you technically have multi-player RPG gaming, something that Blizzard has already done for years and existed in the same fashion before Blizzard was around.
So you don't see them pushing the limits of what is underneath, they keep players moving towards the multi-player parts of the game, it's far more cost effective. Regardless of my opinion, be it that WoW sucks or not, that's just what I see by their design, it's quite familiar, just repackaged.
Oh well, yet another WoW thread of the day lol What you think tomorrow will bring? hah
I left soon after they were implemented. Since then the game really has become a shadow of it's former self,
.
How would you know?
.
Did you get your wow new on mmorpg.com forums?
.
I joined WOW in '04 with many RL friends.
.
The last of this group of friends left the game just over a month ago.
.
While unsubscribed I continued to follow the game's progress and actually played quite often using various friend's characters. Sadly many Saturday nights in the past were not spent playing EVE or something I find similarly palatable.
.
I'm no stranger to today's WOW.
.
I will be shortly though
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I left soon after they were implemented. Since then the game really has become a shadow of it's former self,
.
How would you know?
.
Did you get your wow new on mmorpg.com forums?
were you in original wow?
i was there , i baught bc,i baugh wotlk left a bunch of month ago fed up
original wow was WOW!
the wow that is there now aint worth the money i paid for original wow back then
and cat isnt gona change that it seems,saw live cat all last week-end and basicly its bc and wotlk but still no original style of gaming.what happened to it i dont know but it isnt in todays wow.i love the fact that you can do other stuff but scrapping the core way for post original wow content isnt my kind of fun .its like trying to run a marathon with only one lung!thats my 25 cent!
I know, I know, ridiculous claim, but hear me out. In the raw sense of the term "MMORPG", yes WoW and its ilk fall into that category.
But where the glaring difference comes in, is in the ideals of what an MMO should be. MMOs, since their inception have really been pushing the boundaries with gameplay and bridging the gap between player and developer. These worlds, embodied in these games, exist to be conquered by the playerbase. It started with adventuring together in groups, to solving puzzles together, defeating bosses together. Then comes along crafting, social scheduling, interaction with different groups (guild politics), and PvP.
Every new game, every different feature is pushing this genre forward by giving the player more power, more custimization, more individuality among different game types.
An MMORPG is a game that exists solely as a world for players to shape. Player interaction between themselves, the game world, and each other are integral to what makes an MMO an MMO.
Games like WoW and other PVE focused games are infantile MMOs, not TRUE MMOs. The sandbox games are the closest. Games like EVE, Darkfall, Wurm, Love, etc. allow the players to change the course of the game. Individuals, not developers. YES there can be story in a sandbox, WHY is there no hybrid MMO. With EVE's reintroduction to live events putting more steps into advancing stories depending on player input, we are taking mosre steps to advance the culture of MMOs and player involvement.
This is what makes an MMO an MMO, the players with the power.
I hate to have to be the one to say it but posts like this one have really run out of ways to come off as witty or to even point out anything that may cause a lightbulb moment, it might be because I am just not with people trying to add their own interpretations to words anyway but WOW is an mmorpg in every sense of the word that matters.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
LOl, though I do not agree with your opinion on this one Mr Daywolf, this is a damb funny post, there's no denying it.
Hah! you mean the part where I said it is an mmo? OP has some good points, but I don't necessarily agree with it all. If you can get 100 people into the same area, I'd say it's an mmo. However, WoW is really designed to play like a multi-player RPG (like Diablo), but has the technology to pass for an mmorpg to some degree, thus you pay a sub for it I really don’t see it hard to come to that conclusion, it’s pretty common now a days, it’s old game design used in RPG’s for years as Blizzard had mastered even before WoW.
Yep, This bit right here was the part I was not agreeing with. Explaine to me how that makes it difernt to any other theampark game on the market? Or are you saying that no games released since wow in this sub niche of the genre are true mmos? not trying to put words in your mouth here Mr Wolf, just asking for clarification.
Technically yes, but by design, no. It's like if you understand the layers of a computer system, one layer operates the layer below all the way down to the BIOS operations. You can see parts of that mmo layer poking up here and there in WoW, but it is another layer built on top of it effectively. Where you have linear game play, whether you like that or not being besides the point, it's old style RPG gaming, added that with instancing you technically have multi-player RPG gaming, something that Blizzard has already done for years and existed in the same fashion before Blizzard was around.
So you don't see them pushing the limits of what is underneath, they keep players moving towards the multi-player parts of the game, it's far more cost effective. Regardless of my opinion, be it that WoW sucks or not, that's just what I see by their design, it's quite familiar, just repackaged.
Oh well, yet another WoW thread of the day lol What you think tomorrow will bring? hah
Lol, I think in all probability more of the same. That's an interesting perspective. So an Analogy in my terms, as a musician what you are saying seems to be similar to the same way I look at a lot of popular music. I get you now.
I know, I know, ridiculous claim, but hear me out. In the raw sense of the term "MMORPG", yes WoW and its ilk fall into that category.
But where the glaring difference comes in, is in the ideals of what an MMO should be. MMOs, since their inception have really been pushing the boundaries with gameplay and bridging the gap between player and developer. These worlds, embodied in these games, exist to be conquered by the playerbase. It started with adventuring together in groups, to solving puzzles together, defeating bosses together. Then comes along crafting, social scheduling, interaction with different groups (guild politics), and PvP.
Every new game, every different feature is pushing this genre forward by giving the player more power, more custimization, more individuality among different game types.
An MMORPG is a game that exists solely as a world for players to shape. Player interaction between themselves, the game world, and each other are integral to what makes an MMO an MMO.
Games like WoW and other PVE focused games are infantile MMOs, not TRUE MMOs. The sandbox games are the closest. Games like EVE, Darkfall, Wurm, Love, etc. allow the players to change the course of the game. Individuals, not developers. YES there can be story in a sandbox, WHY is there no hybrid MMO. With EVE's reintroduction to live events putting more steps into advancing stories depending on player input, we are taking mosre steps to advance the culture of MMOs and player involvement.
This is what makes an MMO an MMO, the players with the power.
I hate to have to be the one to say it but posts like this one have really run out of ways to come off as witty or to even point out anything that may cause a lightbulb moment, it might be because I am just not with people trying to add their own interpretations to words anyway but WOW is an mmorpg in every sense of the word that matters.
original wow is for me!new wow is for other!im out of that boat!because for me the new wow isnt worth the asking price!
there are alternative similar to it in the f2p world that will be just as smooth and just as fun if wanted to play casual only(allods)
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
so wow might call itself a mmo but every gamer knows that eve is the true representation of what is a mmo in the view of gamer
Obviously the amount of details shown in wow and eve in terms of graphic and data is alot difference.
If it's ever possible in eve to show 1500 different space shuttle on your screen showing all the detailed movement of all the ship let me know.
they can do it have do it ,not sure now since they ve been hard at work on upgrading their gear and programing for their patch and all(they had shut down a big chunk of their server dont know if they are back up!check their site they own the world recorn for concurrent user cant recall i think it was 60 000 .1700 in jita alone!and the news i say is old news since i havent checked their website in months!
That isn't even what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about the concurrent number of player on the server.
Massive pvp in Eve looks like a bunch of dots, maybe moving left or right. At a very slow pace.
Massive pvp in for example warhammer look like a bunch of actually toons that look all different and moving. The amount of movement and spell effects coming on screen at a much faster rate.
And the enviroment in Eve is basically a black screen containing some computer generated visual effect on the back ground. Compare that to a game like Aion where the amount of details that went into every tree, every rock, every background. The amount of details (aka man power) used to generage the zones in Eve is much less.
I'm not really arguing about wow or eve. I'm mainly talking about the limitation to todays mmorpg. Making a large enough zone with amount of quality non computer generated environments since impracticle. And massive pvp in alot of games is limited by what your graphic cards can do.
Lol, I think in all probability more of the same. That's an interesting perspective. So an Analogy in my terms, as a musician what you are saying seems to be similar to the same way I look at a lot of popular music. I get you now.
Ok, man. Just dont dog on Foo Fighters and we will be coo.
Dude, just admit you were smoking crack when you made this OP and we'll be good.
Nobody died and made YOU the definer of MMO's.
Call WoW a bad MMO for any number of reasons. Call any other a GREAT MMO for any number of reasons. But STOP TRYING TO PRETEND YOU GET TO DEFINE WHAT IS AN MMO AND WHAT ISN'T.
WoW meets any REASONABLE persons views of what an MMO is. A persistant world? yep. The ability to interact with hundreds if not thousands of other players? yep. That's only the beginning of its "qualifications". But clearly, it is an MMO.
Good? Bad? It's the one with the subs. Get over it. Play the game you like and be happy.
What does it persist?
Yes, that is right, exactly the same as Battlefield 2 or Call of Duty: Character progression.
How many ppl do you REALLY interact with? I agree, there could be 200 ppl in Elwynn Forest, but there isn't. It is a gameplay wasteland once you reach level 11. And that is how the entire open world is: Wasteland as soon as you have been through it. You will never need it again. What good is a potentially open world if you do not support it with gameplay? Isn't the endresult the same? That it is never being used?
This used to be worlds, now they are mere games, comparable to simple FPS games.
OP is right, WoW is not an MMORPG - at least not at endgame. Neither are all the other heavily instanced games that claim to be so.
WoW consists of a 3D lobby (the open world, where you level in and nothing else) which serves as the entrance into instances. These being PvE instances (dungeons) or PvP instances.
I remember when I hit 60: All I did was standing around in Ironforge, until a group was together for dungeons, and later on for PvE instances. All I ever did in the socalled "world", was travel to dungeons. I had direct access to PvP from IF, and when I began PvP'ing exclusively, I never set foot outside of IF again. Then quit in disgust.
If all you play WoW for, is to level up, you can call it an MMO, but at endlevel (where the game should really begin?) it ceases to be that.
All gathering professions are into the open world.
The complete economy of WOW is based on them.
All seasonal content puts you into the world, all daily quests, all world achievements and basically what you say is that you didn't do either of them.
Your choice, but that's your choice: the land masses are there and ... just to be sure the land is epxloited , Blizzard puts in a nice "needed" leveling profession back into CATA: Archeology.
More then ever you'll need to exploit the open world zones to ... do the end game in CATA (PAth of Titans). So ... argument failed (again of course).
Oh, ya a few gatherings in the open world really brings it to life. Suddenly it gets sooo interesting.
It is a wasteland, and what little activity that is there from endlevelers, is but a sugarcoated excuse for an open world.
Once I moved server to play with some friends. After having moved, I felt ABSOLUTELY no difference in my gaming experience. Everything I had was with me, because everything that WoW persists, is progression in one form or another.
That means, that the world itself had no value at all, and that is a testimony to how attached the players are to it: Around the same level as a random BF2 map.
Yes Rasputin, because players (as a whole) want games, not worlds.
The mark of a good game is that you spend the majority of your time interacting with game elements which offer interesting gameplay. Good gameplay isn't optional in a good game.
Good gameplay is optional in a good world. And in fact, good gameplay is always marginalized as a result of developers creating a good world.
Basically:
A game designer says to himself "Travel involves very few interesting decisions -- a tiny bit of brainpower spent figuring out a path through the mobs and obstacles, nothing more. Therefore I will minimize the player's interaction with this uninteresting system and maximize the player's interaction with better systems."
A world designer says to himself "Travel makes a world a world. So it's in."
The game designer tries to optimize how much time the player spends interacting with interesting systems, whereas the world designer is primarily concerned with world integrity; everything else falls by the wayside.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
As a player with several level 80's and a long history of playing MMO's, MUSH's, etc., since the mid 90's, I'll attempt to explain WHY WoW is not a true MMO.
Reason 1: WoW is a glorified simulaton/adventure game.
The game is built entirely around instance runs which look and feel like a Mario Brothers sideshow. MMO's are supposed to be opened ened and unpredictable, but WoW is plays like a simulation. No matter what combination of real life characters one groups with, the play is still the same. The player characters themselves are just an extension of WoW's simulation interface.
Reason 2: WoW's mechanics borrow too heavily from simulation paradigms and Las Vegas casinos.
That is, the game plays like a slot machine, which is not by accident. The bells and whistles of WoW are design to hook players (like Mario Brothers, etc) on short term, repetivie behaviors. Twitch behavior is the goal behind the user interface.
Reason 3: WoW has no true classes.
That's right. So you leveled up your squishy , cloth wearer to level 80 and think to yourself, self, this is really gonna pay off now!!I'm gonna do some DAMAGE. Ummm, no. Plate classes will equal you in DPS. What's more, they can quickly change specs and suddenly become healers or tanks, if they feel like it. In short, one can choose druid or paladin and literally BE every class in the game without touching other classes.
Reason 4: Somebody forgot to tell Blizzard devs to make sure armor classes matter.
Read above.. What is my trade off for being cloth or leather, blizzard? Oh, right.... nothing . Thx.
Reason 5: Craftable items don't exist.
I mean they exist, but they are useless -- utterly. Maybe I'll give a shoutout to alchemy, but not really.
Reason 6: Hey, check it out, MMO's are supposed to be about exploring one's individuality, but guess what? Everybody is WEARING THE SAME GEAR!!!
Lol, this one is funny. I see all the etoons hanging out in Ironforge sporting their 5800 GS, but they all are wearing 90% of the same crap. This works even across classes.
Reason 7: Emblem System.
Ever have this conversation? If not, then you havn't played WoW, lol.
Player 1: Hey, bro, Let's go run dungeon [insert dungeon nobody runs cause they can buy better gear] and get some cool gear. I hear that Cool-Lookin-Dragon-Guy drops a killer helm/sword/shield .
Player 2: Nah, I just need three emblems for 301 GS chest piece, sorry.
Player 1:
Reason 8: Duengon Finder/Cross sever play is FUuuuuUUUUn ---- Ummm, no.
Ever hear any of these? "Good job guys.. yea, great run.... I'll never see you again, lol! Yea, awesome! Tank sucked.. Urrrr mom! Alright... laterz .." On to next 20 minute queue.
Reason 9: Dead SPACE..
Awe man.. it looks so big, this world. That is -- until you realize that 50% of it is dead space and pretty pictures.
And Reason 10 as to why WoW is not a true MMO:
The World changes too much, which is testimony to blizzards poor design. Class mechanics are a constant work in progress especially. Furthermore, blizzard doesn't just make changes, they make wholesale changes to classes. The result is not so much a game, but an experience in which players must constantly adapt to the whims of the devs. You know, MMO's are supposed to simulate a "universe." Inherent within that concept is that there are certain laws and that there is predictability. None of that is true with WoW. You can literally take a 3 month break from the game and find that your class has been totally redisigned not just in terms of how it plays solo, but how it peforms in groups.
Comments
ah...400 users in a system, not a station, crashes a system in most cases.
It's a good laugh when that quality mmorpg with such a huge seamless open gathering world with excellent non visible background loading ...
... is being slaughtered on a mmorpg forum because it ALSO offers 80+ dungeons, raids and battlegrounds played on a daily basis on full servers.
I just lost my flight path in Silverpine Forest due to an enemy raiding team on Undercity for the second time this friday evening.
Yep, I must be playing another game than those forum OP's ... or ... perhaps I am the one that actually plays ...
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
http://www.eveonline.com/iNgameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1248612&page=4
heres an old tread the community speak about 2 of their record!
Have to be honest with you here DrB. I get what your saying, I think everybody who has looked at this thread gets what you are saying. Not sure if you do as you seem to keep making the same point. Unfortunatly nobody made you the game genre definig grand master. Eve and WoW are not the same kind of game. I am sure they never wanted to be. Yet they both fall under the bubble of mmorpgs. I'm sorry a game you don't like in its current form is assosiated with one that you do. But that is just the way it is. It's not up to you to decide for everybody else.
You can say a lot about this game, but to say WOW is not an MMORPG is beyond reaching if you ask me.
I didn't like the direction Blizzard was heading as far back as the introduction of BGs, and I left soon after they were implemented. Since then the game really has become a shadow of it's former self, but that doesn't mean it has suddenly jumped out of the genre and metamorphosized into something completely different.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
How would you know?
.
Did you get your wow new on mmorpg.com forums?
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
Technically yes, but by design, no. It's like if you understand the layers of a computer system, one layer operates the layer below all the way down to the BIOS operations. You can see parts of that mmo layer poking up here and there in WoW, but it is another layer built on top of it effectively. Where you have linear game play, whether you like that or not being besides the point, it's old style RPG gaming, added that with instancing you technically have multi-player RPG gaming, something that Blizzard has already done for years and existed in the same fashion before Blizzard was around.
So you don't see them pushing the limits of what is underneath, they keep players moving towards the multi-player parts of the game, it's far more cost effective. Regardless of my opinion, be it that WoW sucks or not, that's just what I see by their design, it's quite familiar, just repackaged.
Oh well, yet another WoW thread of the day lol What you think tomorrow will bring? hah
M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demos & indie alpha's.
.
I joined WOW in '04 with many RL friends.
.
The last of this group of friends left the game just over a month ago.
.
While unsubscribed I continued to follow the game's progress and actually played quite often using various friend's characters. Sadly many Saturday nights in the past were not spent playing EVE or something I find similarly palatable.
.
I'm no stranger to today's WOW.
.
I will be shortly though
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
were you in original wow?
i was there , i baught bc,i baugh wotlk left a bunch of month ago fed up
original wow was WOW!
the wow that is there now aint worth the money i paid for original wow back then
and cat isnt gona change that it seems,saw live cat all last week-end and basicly its bc and wotlk but still no original style of gaming.what happened to it i dont know but it isnt in todays wow.i love the fact that you can do other stuff but scrapping the core way for post original wow content isnt my kind of fun .its like trying to run a marathon with only one lung!thats my 25 cent!
I hate to have to be the one to say it but posts like this one have really run out of ways to come off as witty or to even point out anything that may cause a lightbulb moment, it might be because I am just not with people trying to add their own interpretations to words anyway but WOW is an mmorpg in every sense of the word that matters.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Lol, I think in all probability more of the same. That's an interesting perspective. So an Analogy in my terms, as a musician what you are saying seems to be similar to the same way I look at a lot of popular music. I get you now.
original wow is for me!new wow is for other!im out of that boat!because for me the new wow isnt worth the asking price!
there are alternative similar to it in the f2p world that will be just as smooth and just as fun if wanted to play casual only(allods)
*Sigh*...
I just gotta say--
This is one of the few posts I've ever made--
but DAMN this thread is giving me a headache.
>.>
nvm
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
<Opposing definition of what MMORPGs are.>
<Claim that well-known MMORPG actually is an MMORPG.>
When opinions are used to arbitrarily re-define commonly used terms, conversation takes a nose dive real quick.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
<Off Topic Observation>
<Victory Claim>
wow is not an mmo...
this makes as much sence as saying the army is not the military, and that hamburgers are not food, but whatever. You have your opinion... thats cool.
That isn't even what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about the concurrent number of player on the server.
Massive pvp in Eve looks like a bunch of dots, maybe moving left or right. At a very slow pace.
Massive pvp in for example warhammer look like a bunch of actually toons that look all different and moving. The amount of movement and spell effects coming on screen at a much faster rate.
And the enviroment in Eve is basically a black screen containing some computer generated visual effect on the back ground. Compare that to a game like Aion where the amount of details that went into every tree, every rock, every background. The amount of details (aka man power) used to generage the zones in Eve is much less.
I'm not really arguing about wow or eve. I'm mainly talking about the limitation to todays mmorpg. Making a large enough zone with amount of quality non computer generated environments since impracticle. And massive pvp in alot of games is limited by what your graphic cards can do.
Ok, man. Just dont dog on Foo Fighters and we will be coo.
Oh you know I did it
It's over and I feel fine
Nothing you could say is gonna change my mind
Waited and I waited the longest night
Nothing like the taste to sweet decline
(in honor of yet another WoW thread lol)
M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demos & indie alpha's.
What does it persist?
Yes, that is right, exactly the same as Battlefield 2 or Call of Duty: Character progression.
How many ppl do you REALLY interact with? I agree, there could be 200 ppl in Elwynn Forest, but there isn't. It is a gameplay wasteland once you reach level 11. And that is how the entire open world is: Wasteland as soon as you have been through it. You will never need it again. What good is a potentially open world if you do not support it with gameplay? Isn't the endresult the same? That it is never being used?
This used to be worlds, now they are mere games, comparable to simple FPS games.
Oh, ya a few gatherings in the open world really brings it to life. Suddenly it gets sooo interesting.
It is a wasteland, and what little activity that is there from endlevelers, is but a sugarcoated excuse for an open world.
Once I moved server to play with some friends. After having moved, I felt ABSOLUTELY no difference in my gaming experience. Everything I had was with me, because everything that WoW persists, is progression in one form or another.
That means, that the world itself had no value at all, and that is a testimony to how attached the players are to it: Around the same level as a random BF2 map.
We are playing games, not worlds.
Yes Rasputin, because players (as a whole) want games, not worlds.
The mark of a good game is that you spend the majority of your time interacting with game elements which offer interesting gameplay. Good gameplay isn't optional in a good game.
Good gameplay is optional in a good world. And in fact, good gameplay is always marginalized as a result of developers creating a good world.
Basically:
A game designer says to himself "Travel involves very few interesting decisions -- a tiny bit of brainpower spent figuring out a path through the mobs and obstacles, nothing more. Therefore I will minimize the player's interaction with this uninteresting system and maximize the player's interaction with better systems."
A world designer says to himself "Travel makes a world a world. So it's in."
The game designer tries to optimize how much time the player spends interacting with interesting systems, whereas the world designer is primarily concerned with world integrity; everything else falls by the wayside.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Anyone who doesn't play the type of MMO I prefer, especially the MMO that I play, is doing it wrong.
Hey! God dambit, STOP HAVING FUN WHEN YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!
Give me liberty or give me lasers
As a player with several level 80's and a long history of playing MMO's, MUSH's, etc., since the mid 90's, I'll attempt to explain WHY WoW is not a true MMO.
Reason 1: WoW is a glorified simulaton/adventure game.
The game is built entirely around instance runs which look and feel like a Mario Brothers sideshow. MMO's are supposed to be opened ened and unpredictable, but WoW is plays like a simulation. No matter what combination of real life characters one groups with, the play is still the same. The player characters themselves are just an extension of WoW's simulation interface.
Reason 2: WoW's mechanics borrow too heavily from simulation paradigms and Las Vegas casinos.
That is, the game plays like a slot machine, which is not by accident. The bells and whistles of WoW are design to hook players (like Mario Brothers, etc) on short term, repetivie behaviors. Twitch behavior is the goal behind the user interface.
Reason 3: WoW has no true classes.
That's right. So you leveled up your squishy , cloth wearer to level 80 and think to yourself, self, this is really gonna pay off now!!I'm gonna do some DAMAGE. Ummm, no. Plate classes will equal you in DPS. What's more, they can quickly change specs and suddenly become healers or tanks, if they feel like it. In short, one can choose druid or paladin and literally BE every class in the game without touching other classes.
Reason 4: Somebody forgot to tell Blizzard devs to make sure armor classes matter.
Read above.. What is my trade off for being cloth or leather, blizzard? Oh, right.... nothing . Thx.
Reason 5: Craftable items don't exist.
I mean they exist, but they are useless -- utterly. Maybe I'll give a shoutout to alchemy, but not really.
Reason 6: Hey, check it out, MMO's are supposed to be about exploring one's individuality, but guess what? Everybody is WEARING THE SAME GEAR!!!
Lol, this one is funny. I see all the etoons hanging out in Ironforge sporting their 5800 GS, but they all are wearing 90% of the same crap. This works even across classes.
Reason 7: Emblem System.
Ever have this conversation? If not, then you havn't played WoW, lol.
Player 1: Hey, bro, Let's go run dungeon [insert dungeon nobody runs cause they can buy better gear] and get some cool gear. I hear that Cool-Lookin-Dragon-Guy drops a killer helm/sword/shield .
Player 2: Nah, I just need three emblems for 301 GS chest piece, sorry.
Player 1:
Reason 8: Duengon Finder/Cross sever play is FUuuuuUUUUn ---- Ummm, no.
Ever hear any of these? "Good job guys.. yea, great run.... I'll never see you again, lol! Yea, awesome! Tank sucked.. Urrrr mom! Alright... laterz .." On to next 20 minute queue.
Reason 9: Dead SPACE..
Awe man.. it looks so big, this world. That is -- until you realize that 50% of it is dead space and pretty pictures.
And Reason 10 as to why WoW is not a true MMO:
The World changes too much, which is testimony to blizzards poor design. Class mechanics are a constant work in progress especially. Furthermore, blizzard doesn't just make changes, they make wholesale changes to classes. The result is not so much a game, but an experience in which players must constantly adapt to the whims of the devs. You know, MMO's are supposed to simulate a "universe." Inherent within that concept is that there are certain laws and that there is predictability. None of that is true with WoW. You can literally take a 3 month break from the game and find that your class has been totally redisigned not just in terms of how it plays solo, but how it peforms in groups.