And a lot of them left because of disputes with Vivendi in the years afterwards, whole groups of people forming other studios like Flagship Studio and ArenaNet. From the original teams that stood at the base of Diablo's, Warcraft's and Starcraft's success, there's hardly anyone left, besides Pardo.
Most were gone when the last of the originals helped finish WoW vanilla before leaving, or had already gone away to those other studios.
Sort of reminded me of Activsion and Modern Warfare: maybe the name Infinity Ward will still exist and the franchise will still continue, but those who were behind the original success have left the building.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
but I was just thinking: Maybe they'll even set up some Vanilla servers in time and bring back the thousands of players who miss the hardcore WoW.
This.
But it will NEVER happend im sure, me and alot of others have been asking for this since TBC launched, and they have always said no and they will NEVER add vanilla wow servers. One can always hope, but i wont. Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
This is realy sad. You act like WoW is the big bad demon of gaming, and as the person posted before me the people who left Blizzard are the very people who don't have what it takes to make a decent game. Blizzard has faulterd on some things but the produce good games. I'm so sick of hearing about Blizzard/Activision its a partnership Blizzard still owns all right and actions to World of Warcraft and activion helps fund updates, exps, and other things that need to be funded for blizzard, Activision can not force Blizzard to shut WoW down and you are stupid if you think they can, Blizzard is the most powerful gaming company in the world right now there profits surpass Activisions CoD sells (there best selling game) Activision make more money soloy because they have more games (crap games), Still on that Subject when you go to Blizzards site do you see Activision any where? or on SC2 or D3 or WotLK No... You don't because its not thier game its blizzards. Back to topic yes WoW has went downhill sense Vanilla but its still the top of its genres and YOU have no way to disprove that. People act like this game has raped every member of their family. Its just a game i swear
Yet WoW didn't reach it's greatest successes until after they had left. Names mean a lot in the gaming industry but they really shouldn't because you're only as good as your current effort. Most of the people who left Blizzard went on to do nothing of significance. Games are made by teams not star personalities. In truth success has killed a lot of gaming studios because sequels almost never quite measure up.
The Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King are better than Starcraft, Diablo 1 & 2, Warcraft 3 and WoW vanilla? I beg to differ.
What I'm saying is that the current Blizzard isn't the Blizzard anymore that it was when it became great and made those hits. The current teams have inherited a great heritage, and I have no doubt that they will continue what they got, it's easier to continue a franchise than to start it up, but from what I've seen the last few years so far, SC2 included, they aren't on the same level of greatness as the original teams were. Which is a shame, because Blizzard was absolutely awesome in the time they came up with those franchises.
Doesn't mean I'm not going to buy SC2, but I don't have that same excitement and thrill that I had with Blizzard's earlier releases. Personally I think Blizard is gradually losing their way under Activision tutelage. I hope not, but that's the way the signs are pointing to. On the other hand, everything changes and there have been enough great game companies that lost their touch or merged into anonymity the last 20 years, so nothing new.
But that's enough of on-the-side philosophising, the topic was about WoW's longevity
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
What I'm saying is that the current Blizzard isn't the Blizzard anymore that it was when it became great and made those hits. The current teams have inherited a great heritage, and I have no doubt that they will continue what they got, it's easier to continue a franchise than to start it up,
My sentiments exactly. In Vanilla WoW there's so many things to do, so much little things here and there waiting for you to explore, etc..
With the release of BC and LK what they do is only recycle old ideas, now they even gona tear up the old world and make leveling more linear. Im all for the changes to the old world, but its not the direction that i wana see.
True. As I said before, WoW will be around a long time.
Do I think the current Blizzard teams are as good as the ones 5-10 years ago? No, absolutely not, not by what I've seen so far of them. But then again, it's easier to continue a franchise, acting as the 'shopkeepers', than to create a successful one in the first place. Blizzard's franchises will go on, just as a Guitar Hero has its continuing sequels, and just as no doubt a Modern Warfare 3 will sell bucket loads.
That's what companies as EA and Activision (or now Activision Blizzard) after all do best, setting up the franchises that are under their hood as a steady ongoing product.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Sure, I'll bite. I agree that WoW will be around a very long time.
However, as for which virtual universe will endure the longest, I'm interested in putting some money on EVE Online vs WoW. WoW's trend has been to grow with amazing speed and popularity which eventually hit a general plateau, and then show a strong ability to maintain a high level of membership around that plateau with relatively (compared to what other developing MMO's have had to bring to the table) little effort.
EVE's trend has been the incredibly slow-growing small ember that just gets bigger and bigger...and honestly we really don't know where or when it will plateau, or what the game universe will even consist of at that point.
EVE won't ever be as big as WoW, I'm not suggesting that at all, but I'm curious as a gamer to see which of these two gaming organism/models will truly last longer (and I mean as a growing evolving system, not just the simple "servers are still online" thing).
Anyway, I'll bet 1 person $20 US that EVE outlasts WoW, we check back in 20 years (May 2030) and pay up.
Currently playing: LOTRO, Guild Wars 2. Have played: EVE Online; Champions Online; Age of Conan; City of Heroes/Villains; Star Wars Galaxies (pre-CU, pre-NGE); World of Warcraft (Vanilla to Cataclysm); Hellgate: London; Warhammer Online; Lord of the Rings Online; Vanguard: Saga of Heroes; Star Wars: The Old Republic Wishlist: Mass Effect Online
Sure, I'll bite. I agree that WoW will be around a very long time.
However, as for which virtual universe will endure the longest, I'm interested in putting some money on EVE Online vs WoW. WoW's trend has been to grow with amazing speed and popularity which eventually hit a general plateau, and then show a strong ability to maintain a high level of membership around that plateau with relatively (compared to what other developing MMO's have had to bring to the table) little effort.
EVE's trend has been the incredibly slow-growing small ember that just gets bigger and bigger...and honestly we really don't know where or when it will plateau, or what the game universe will even consist of at that point.
EVE won't ever be as big as WoW, I'm not suggesting that at all, but I'm curious as a gamer to see which of these two gaming organism/models will truly last longer (and I mean as a growing evolving system, not just the simple "servers are still online" thing).
Anyway, I'll bet 1 person $20 US that EVE outlasts WoW, we check back in 20 years (May 2030) and pay up.
I would do it--
but your argument is very sound and I have seen the gradual growth that has been happening in EVE...
This is realy sad. You act like WoW is the big bad demon of gaming, and as the person posted before me the people who left Blizzard are the very people who don't have what it takes to make a decent game. Blizzard has faulterd on some things but the produce good games. I'm so sick of hearing about Blizzard/Activision its a partnership Blizzard still owns all right and actions to World of Warcraft and activion helps fund updates, exps, and other things that need to be funded for blizzard, Activision can not force Blizzard to shut WoW down and you are stupid if you think they can, Blizzard is the most powerful gaming company in the world right now there profits surpass Activisions CoD sells (there best selling game) Activision make more money soloy because they have more games (crap games), Still on that Subject when you go to Blizzards site do you see Activision any where? or on SC2 or D3 or WotLK No... You don't because its not thier game its blizzards. Back to topic yes WoW has went downhill sense Vanilla but its still the top of its genres and YOU have no way to disprove that. People act like this game has raped every member of their family. Its just a game i swear
Um...Square Enix(also known as Squaresoft before they bought enix) would like to have a word with you. 3(or is it 4 now, soon to be 5?) MMORPGS, over 20x as many games as blizzard, and, to be truthful, they actually haven't even tapped the chinese market because you get less than 10% of profits from there due to local laws regarding online gaming...and the fact that japan dislikes china intensely. Also, Activision, regardless of what Blizzard tells you, is now the parent company of ACTIVISION-Blizzard. After that comes Vivendi Entertainment,and then some other huge conglomerate. Square Enix is owned by..you guessed it, Square Enix! I'd say Blizzard doesn't even control WOW, much less is the most powerful..or even the 5th most powerful gaming company.
Stop trying to defend a company that no longer deserves the reputation they once had. Furthermore, if you feel the need to do so, I suggest not blowing things out of proportion. I play WOW, however I feel that the direction thegame is taking is exactly the same as Activision's games. So far we buy the game, 2, soon to be 3, expansions, pay 15 dollars per month, and then, on top of that, are FORCED to make someone else play, or pay for a 2nd account, if we want a two seater flier. On top of that, if we give A-B another 25 dollars, we get loot stolen from Alganon the Observer. And, in addition to that, if we want other certain things we have to buy TRADING CARDS. I am fine with convention bonuses, even the lolarena tourney. I am fine with lil XT, I even find him somewhat cute. I am NOT FINE with Activision's subtle prodding of WOW towards a cash shop WITH SUBSCRIPTION FEE game. If i wanted unbalanced, untested, overpriced content, I'd go play a cash shop game. Pretty much if I see anything go directly to the cash shop that gives any advantage that noone else can obtain in anoher manner, or that does the same thing as an ingame manner but instantly, that will be the last straw.
TLDR version: Don't defend Blizzard with an account made just to do it. Its not cool.
wow, you use a fact that is not true Enix and Squaresoft had a mutual merger of companys Squaresoft did not BUY Enix. Why would Blizzard give activision any say in the most powerful MMO out, the biggest profiting game in the world, and fyi alot of the rules set my chinesse goverment where due to World of warcraft, it had a very big chunk of chinesse subs. I did make this account to defend a good companys name. Blizzard is a bussiness they plan to make money the same reason you go to work every morning or night. Yes Blizzard has made cash items but no worse then any other MMO actualy alittle better Everquest in its constantly realsing usless expansion packs for 19.99 every 3months, talk of Aion getting its very own cash shop! and many other games they ALL plan to make money and just because blizzard is good at it you hate them? They have never once sold a item that will effect your gameplay. Activision and Blizzard are partners and just because 1 scrub company (aka Infinity ward) did not fight back is no reason to say Blizzard won't.
its been going strong for 6 years with nothing really new or groundbraking added. everything that has been added are simply additions (i can say that right ?) to there former vanilla gameplay.
and gamers are craving for somthing new... the second the true next-gen hits the market that is where the masses will go to.
right now my money is on GW2 since they are the only ones really pushing it atm and still trying to aim for the cazual none hardcore market.
i hope... not becouse of wow just becouse out of the whole MMO market that we see wow decilne in the next 2 years. with the realease of something truly creative.
Sorry for typos... dyslexic and just too damn lazy to proof read every post for 30 min (yes i am aware of spell check but it does not help that much
EVE won't ever be as big as WoW, I'm not suggesting that at all, but I'm curious as a gamer to see which of these two gaming organism/models will truly last longer (and I mean as a growing evolving system, not just the simple "servers are still online" thing).
EVE won't ever be as big as WoW, but at a certain point, WoW will be as small as EVE with EVE still kicking around with its decent niche playerbase...
It doesn't take much to design a shinier game than WoW. Many have tried, many will try, many have failed and many will fail, but at a certain point someone will eventually succeed (with a humongous investment, very competent team, and whatever it takes: we are talking about, perhaps, more than 15-20 million players). At that point, WoW will start its decline.
EVE is a niche game. It will take either many years to design a game as deep as EVE, or a huge amount of money. But no one will pour in the money it takes to do it faster (it's still a niche market) and no one will make an EVE-ish game with a moderate investment and "lag" behind eve forever (unless there is some technological breakthrough that allows some ground-breaking features like direct vessel/weapons control AND massive battles or something alike, but then it would still revolve mostly around smaller vessel dogfights, far from what EVE is about, as direct control of huge capital ships would be pointless).
its been going strong for 6 years with nothing really new or groundbraking added. everything that has been added are simply additions (i can say that right ?) to there former vanilla gameplay.
and gamers are craving for somthing new... the second the true next-gen hits the market that is where the masses will go to.
right now my money is on GW2 since they are the only ones really pushing it atm and still trying to aim for the cazual none hardcore market.
I think GW2 has the best shot of being something spectacular of the MMO's to be released within the next 2 years. WHich is saynig something because there's a batch of some pretty impressive MMO titles coming up in that time period.
and @Selenes: I think you're blowing things out of proportion, relax, heed your own words, it's just a game and it's just a company. Nobody was saying in this thread that they hated Blizzard, just that Blizzard has changed a lot from the company they were and not necessarily for the better - which as someone said is an opinion, and other people can have other thoughts and opinions about it.
As for the specific relation between Vivendi, Activision and Blizzard and how the ties between them work, I'm not going to post that here: there's enough information and encyclopedia online that describe that. Suffice to say that it's an Activision director, Bobby Kotick, that has been made CEO of the holding Activision Blizzard.
I may not have any resentment (merely disappointment) towards Blizzard as it is now, but I positively dislike Kotick's stance towards gaming and game development.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
wow, you use a fact that is not true Enix and Squaresoft had a mutual merger of companys Squaresoft did not BUY Enix. Why would Blizzard give activision any say in the most powerful MMO out, the biggest profiting game in the world, and fyi alot of the rules set my chinesse goverment where due to World of warcraft, it had a very big chunk of chinesse subs. I did make this account to defend a good companys name. Blizzard is a bussiness they plan to make money the same reason you go to work every morning or night. Yes Blizzard has made cash items but no worse then any other MMO actualy alittle better Everquest in its constantly realsing usless expansion packs for 19.99 every 3months, talk of Aion getting its very own cash shop! and many other games they ALL plan to make money and just because blizzard is good at it you hate them? They have never once sold a item that will effect your gameplay. Activision and Blizzard are partners and just because 1 scrub company (aka Infinity ward) did not fight back is no reason to say Blizzard won't.
The CEO of activision-blizzard formerly ran most of Activision. Hence, the man at the reins of this company, the man with the final say, is the man who ran activision, Bobby Kotick. Don't be a fanboy, realize that companies change, and they even lie, cheat, and steal. THAT is how business works. Not some nice buddy-buddy huggy huggy world. Its a world full of half-truths, lies, laywsuits, and idea theft to simply turn a profit. That is why people no longer TRUST the name Blizzard. It is not just another corporate wolf, ran by its Alpha, Activision. Remember, in business, the first name of a mutual company (in this case, ACTIVISION-Blizzard) is the one who generally runs the show after a merger.
We aren't saying they aren't doing what tons of other companies do, we are saying that the game is no longer ran by Blizzard, because Blizzard has ceased to exist as an individual company. Games such as FFXI,DAOC, and LOTRO have still managed to not touch a cash shop model, and the 2nd of those is considered by many to be the number 1 western PVP MMO, the third the best PVE, and the first is the number one Japanese MMO. So, as you can see, some companies are still more focused on actually NOT CHARGING YOU EXTRA for NORMAL content. On the other hand, as soon as Activision and Blizzard "merged" they began offering quite a few services for extra money, even those they had said NO to in the past. Soon after, they began removing a select few items from the game files (wyvern pet, gryphon pet, alganon horse) and decided to act like they hadn't already been there, and sell them for real money alongside the "charity" pets that in reality, were just a tax cut for them while actually donating NONE of their own money.
THAT, my friend, is how business works, ARTISTS make something to create it, for others to enjoy. BUSINESSES take that thing and make millions, sometimes billions off it.
The CEO of activision-blizzard formerly ran most of Activision. Hence, the man at the reins of this company, the man with the final say, is the man who ran activision, Bobby Kotick. Don't be a fanboy, realize that companies change, and they even lie, cheat, and steal. THAT is how business works. Not some nice buddy-buddy huggy huggy world. Its a world full of half-truths, lies, laywsuits, and idea theft to simply turn a profit. That is why people no longer TRUST the name Blizzard. It is not just another corporate wolf, ran by its Alpha, Activision. Remember, in business, the first name of a mutual company (in this case, ACTIVISION-Blizzard) is the one who generally runs the show after a merger.
We aren't saying they aren't doing what tons of other companies do, we are saying that the game is no longer ran by Blizzard, because Blizzard has ceased to exist as an individual company. Games such as FFXI,DAOC, and LOTRO have still managed to not touch a cash shop model, and the 2nd of those is considered by many to be the number 1 western PVP MMO, the third the best PVE, and the first is the number one Japanese MMO. So, as you can see, some companies are still more focused on actually NOT CHARGING YOU EXTRA for NORMAL content. On the other hand, as soon as Activision and Blizzard "merged" they began offering quite a few services for extra money, even those they had said NO to in the past. Soon after, they began removing a select few items from the game files (wyvern pet, gryphon pet, alganon horse) and decided to act like they hadn't already been there, and sell them for real money alongside the "charity" pets that in reality, were just a tax cut for them while actually donating NONE of their own money.
THAT, my friend, is how business works, ARTISTS make something to create it, for others to enjoy. BUSINESSES take that thing and make millions, sometimes billions off it.
I find it interesting because when news of the merger first hit so many people were so gung-ho about it. I then made a remark similiar to yours in that companies change after mergers and can even lost their identity and I got holy hell from people. some of them saying "WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? ACITIVISION MAKES GREAT GAMES"
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I find it interesting because when news of the merger first hit so many people were so gung-ho about it. I then made a remark similiar to yours in that companies change after mergers and can even lost their identity and I got holy hell from people. some of them saying "WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? ACITIVISION MAKES GREAT GAMES"
They do, Guitar Hero, Tony Hawk, Call of Duty, Activision is GREAT with continuing franchises and spewing out sequel upon sequel upon sequel, even if there's not that much innovation or change from one sequel upon the next, it still gets them the money
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I find it interesting because when news of the merger first hit so many people were so gung-ho about it. I then made a remark similiar to yours in that companies change after mergers and can even lost their identity and I got holy hell from people. some of them saying "WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? ACITIVISION MAKES GREAT GAMES"
They do, Guitar Hero, Tony Hawk, Call of Duty, Activision is GREAT with continuing franchises and spewing out sequel upon sequel upon sequel, even if there's not that much innovation or change from one sequel upon the next, it still gets them the money
Yeah, marketing expansions/small tweaks to the previous game as new games is what they do best. And soon, it will also be what Activision-Blizzard does best. Hello, SC2, Diablo 3. The first part of SC2 is actually only half the game! You have to pay twice for the entire game, hah!
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Wow is already the longest lasting game on the market with this kind of playerbase.
But I don't see that continue for another 4 years, they have lost a lot of players since WotLKs release and not just because of that Chinese problem. And no AAA game have released in that time, just wait until games like TOR, GW2, FFXIV, Copernicus and WoDO will release.
6 years is a great time for a MMO and it will work fine for another year but the game is old now and it doesn't attract new players as it used to. The last few years have no one made a well funded and fun game and that gave Wow a few years but there is no chance that millions of players will play a 10 year old game, it just wont happen.
If not one of the other upcoming game is good enough to take the subs then Blizzards own upcoming game will. It should release within 4 years at least.
They do, Guitar Hero, Tony Hawk, Call of Duty, Activision is GREAT with continuing franchises and spewing out sequel upon sequel upon sequel, even if there's not that much innovation or change from one sequel upon the next, it still gets them the money
And that differs them for EA how? EA also makes similar sequels in alarming speed.
But of course, Blizzard been making sequels for a long time too. Their second game was a sequel (Battlechess 2) and Diabo 2 made them a small fortune, same for Warcraft 3.
Funny enough am I not so found of this myself, no sequel have given me the same kick as some first games have, like Diablo, Baldurs gate, Neverwinter nights, Total annhilation, Half-life... and more).
Yeah, marketing expansions/small tweaks to the previous game as new games is what they do best. And soon, it will also be what Activision-Blizzard does best. Hello, SC2, Diablo 3. The first part of SC2 is actually only half the game! You have to pay twice for the entire game, hah!
*cough* thrice. They split SC2 in three parts, one for each race with their own campaign.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
And that differs them for EA how? EA also makes similar sequels in alarming speed.
But of course, Blizzard been making sequels for a long time too. Their second game was a sequel (Battlechess 2) and Diabo 2 made them a small fortune, same for Warcraft 3.
Funny enough am I not so found of this myself, no sequel have given me the same kick as some first games have, like Diablo, Baldurs gate, Neverwinter nights, Total annhilation, Half-life... and more).
Whaa- !? You didn't find games as Warcraft 3 and Baldur's Gate 2 better than their predecessors!? Blasphemy!!!
True, EA is doing the same. I think it's something to do with large companies, the business suits start dominating the company culture and taking over from the guys that initially stood at the beginning of a firm with kind of an idealism and passion for 'their child'.
Anyway, in another post you mentioned Copernicus. Funny, that was the second time I heard from it. Hmm, maybe worth checking out, thanks.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Yeah, marketing expansions/small tweaks to the previous game as new games is what they do best. And soon, it will also be what Activision-Blizzard does best. Hello, SC2, Diablo 3. The first part of SC2 is actually only half the game! You have to pay twice for the entire game, hah!
*cough* thrice. They split SC2 in three parts, one for each race with their own campaign.
So..150 dollars for ONE GAME split into 3? Wow. For that cost, I can buy a used system! Or a new portable one! Or even, god forbid, eat incredibly well for an entire month! I can see SC2 actually ruining Blizzard's name completely quite soon. That is, as soon as the fanboys pull their heads out of the collective sand known as WOW.
Comments
And a lot of them left because of disputes with Vivendi in the years afterwards, whole groups of people forming other studios like Flagship Studio and ArenaNet. From the original teams that stood at the base of Diablo's, Warcraft's and Starcraft's success, there's hardly anyone left, besides Pardo.
Most were gone when the last of the originals helped finish WoW vanilla before leaving, or had already gone away to those other studios.
Sort of reminded me of Activsion and Modern Warfare: maybe the name Infinity Ward will still exist and the franchise will still continue, but those who were behind the original success have left the building.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
EvE online is going to be around the next twenty years!
By that time WoW will be nothing but a distant memory.
So no it wont be the longest lasting mmo but it may be the longest lasting fantasy mmo.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
This.
But it will NEVER happend im sure, me and alot of others have been asking for this since TBC launched, and they have always said no and they will NEVER add vanilla wow servers. One can always hope, but i wont. Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
Currently Playing Path of Exile
This is realy sad. You act like WoW is the big bad demon of gaming, and as the person posted before me the people who left Blizzard are the very people who don't have what it takes to make a decent game. Blizzard has faulterd on some things but the produce good games. I'm so sick of hearing about Blizzard/Activision its a partnership Blizzard still owns all right and actions to World of Warcraft and activion helps fund updates, exps, and other things that need to be funded for blizzard, Activision can not force Blizzard to shut WoW down and you are stupid if you think they can, Blizzard is the most powerful gaming company in the world right now there profits surpass Activisions CoD sells (there best selling game) Activision make more money soloy because they have more games (crap games), Still on that Subject when you go to Blizzards site do you see Activision any where? or on SC2 or D3 or WotLK No... You don't because its not thier game its blizzards. Back to topic yes WoW has went downhill sense Vanilla but its still the top of its genres and YOU have no way to disprove that. People act like this game has raped every member of their family. Its just a game i swear
The Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King are better than Starcraft, Diablo 1 & 2, Warcraft 3 and WoW vanilla? I beg to differ.
What I'm saying is that the current Blizzard isn't the Blizzard anymore that it was when it became great and made those hits. The current teams have inherited a great heritage, and I have no doubt that they will continue what they got, it's easier to continue a franchise than to start it up, but from what I've seen the last few years so far, SC2 included, they aren't on the same level of greatness as the original teams were. Which is a shame, because Blizzard was absolutely awesome in the time they came up with those franchises.
Doesn't mean I'm not going to buy SC2, but I don't have that same excitement and thrill that I had with Blizzard's earlier releases. Personally I think Blizard is gradually losing their way under Activision tutelage. I hope not, but that's the way the signs are pointing to. On the other hand, everything changes and there have been enough great game companies that lost their touch or merged into anonymity the last 20 years, so nothing new.
But that's enough of on-the-side philosophising, the topic was about WoW's longevity
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
My sentiments exactly. In Vanilla WoW there's so many things to do, so much little things here and there waiting for you to explore, etc..
With the release of BC and LK what they do is only recycle old ideas, now they even gona tear up the old world and make leveling more linear. Im all for the changes to the old world, but its not the direction that i wana see.
I'm deeply disapointed...
RIP Orc Choppa
True. As I said before, WoW will be around a long time.
Do I think the current Blizzard teams are as good as the ones 5-10 years ago? No, absolutely not, not by what I've seen so far of them. But then again, it's easier to continue a franchise, acting as the 'shopkeepers', than to create a successful one in the first place. Blizzard's franchises will go on, just as a Guitar Hero has its continuing sequels, and just as no doubt a Modern Warfare 3 will sell bucket loads.
That's what companies as EA and Activision (or now Activision Blizzard) after all do best, setting up the franchises that are under their hood as a steady ongoing product.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Sure, I'll bite. I agree that WoW will be around a very long time.
However, as for which virtual universe will endure the longest, I'm interested in putting some money on EVE Online vs WoW. WoW's trend has been to grow with amazing speed and popularity which eventually hit a general plateau, and then show a strong ability to maintain a high level of membership around that plateau with relatively (compared to what other developing MMO's have had to bring to the table) little effort.
EVE's trend has been the incredibly slow-growing small ember that just gets bigger and bigger...and honestly we really don't know where or when it will plateau, or what the game universe will even consist of at that point.
EVE won't ever be as big as WoW, I'm not suggesting that at all, but I'm curious as a gamer to see which of these two gaming organism/models will truly last longer (and I mean as a growing evolving system, not just the simple "servers are still online" thing).
Anyway, I'll bet 1 person $20 US that EVE outlasts WoW, we check back in 20 years (May 2030) and pay up.
Currently playing: LOTRO, Guild Wars 2.
Have played: EVE Online; Champions Online; Age of Conan; City of Heroes/Villains; Star Wars Galaxies (pre-CU, pre-NGE); World of Warcraft (Vanilla to Cataclysm); Hellgate: London; Warhammer Online; Lord of the Rings Online; Vanguard: Saga of Heroes; Star Wars: The Old Republic
Wishlist: Mass Effect Online
I would do it--
but your argument is very sound and I have seen the gradual growth that has been happening in EVE...
So I am gonna keep my twenty dollars :P
Um...Square Enix(also known as Squaresoft before they bought enix) would like to have a word with you. 3(or is it 4 now, soon to be 5?) MMORPGS, over 20x as many games as blizzard, and, to be truthful, they actually haven't even tapped the chinese market because you get less than 10% of profits from there due to local laws regarding online gaming...and the fact that japan dislikes china intensely. Also, Activision, regardless of what Blizzard tells you, is now the parent company of ACTIVISION-Blizzard. After that comes Vivendi Entertainment,and then some other huge conglomerate. Square Enix is owned by..you guessed it, Square Enix! I'd say Blizzard doesn't even control WOW, much less is the most powerful..or even the 5th most powerful gaming company.
Stop trying to defend a company that no longer deserves the reputation they once had. Furthermore, if you feel the need to do so, I suggest not blowing things out of proportion. I play WOW, however I feel that the direction thegame is taking is exactly the same as Activision's games. So far we buy the game, 2, soon to be 3, expansions, pay 15 dollars per month, and then, on top of that, are FORCED to make someone else play, or pay for a 2nd account, if we want a two seater flier. On top of that, if we give A-B another 25 dollars, we get loot stolen from Alganon the Observer. And, in addition to that, if we want other certain things we have to buy TRADING CARDS. I am fine with convention bonuses, even the lolarena tourney. I am fine with lil XT, I even find him somewhat cute. I am NOT FINE with Activision's subtle prodding of WOW towards a cash shop WITH SUBSCRIPTION FEE game. If i wanted unbalanced, untested, overpriced content, I'd go play a cash shop game. Pretty much if I see anything go directly to the cash shop that gives any advantage that noone else can obtain in anoher manner, or that does the same thing as an ingame manner but instantly, that will be the last straw.
TLDR version: Don't defend Blizzard with an account made just to do it. Its not cool.
wow, you use a fact that is not true Enix and Squaresoft had a mutual merger of companys Squaresoft did not BUY Enix. Why would Blizzard give activision any say in the most powerful MMO out, the biggest profiting game in the world, and fyi alot of the rules set my chinesse goverment where due to World of warcraft, it had a very big chunk of chinesse subs. I did make this account to defend a good companys name. Blizzard is a bussiness they plan to make money the same reason you go to work every morning or night. Yes Blizzard has made cash items but no worse then any other MMO actualy alittle better Everquest in its constantly realsing usless expansion packs for 19.99 every 3months, talk of Aion getting its very own cash shop! and many other games they ALL plan to make money and just because blizzard is good at it you hate them? They have never once sold a item that will effect your gameplay. Activision and Blizzard are partners and just because 1 scrub company (aka Infinity ward) did not fight back is no reason to say Blizzard won't.
i doubt it.
its been going strong for 6 years with nothing really new or groundbraking added. everything that has been added are simply additions (i can say that right ?) to there former vanilla gameplay.
and gamers are craving for somthing new... the second the true next-gen hits the market that is where the masses will go to.
right now my money is on GW2 since they are the only ones really pushing it atm and still trying to aim for the cazual none hardcore market.
i hope... not becouse of wow just becouse out of the whole MMO market that we see wow decilne in the next 2 years. with the realease of something truly creative.
Sorry for typos... dyslexic and just too damn lazy to proof read every post for 30 min
(yes i am aware of spell check but it does not help that much
EVE won't ever be as big as WoW, but at a certain point, WoW will be as small as EVE with EVE still kicking around with its decent niche playerbase...
It doesn't take much to design a shinier game than WoW. Many have tried, many will try, many have failed and many will fail, but at a certain point someone will eventually succeed (with a humongous investment, very competent team, and whatever it takes: we are talking about, perhaps, more than 15-20 million players). At that point, WoW will start its decline.
EVE is a niche game. It will take either many years to design a game as deep as EVE, or a huge amount of money. But no one will pour in the money it takes to do it faster (it's still a niche market) and no one will make an EVE-ish game with a moderate investment and "lag" behind eve forever (unless there is some technological breakthrough that allows some ground-breaking features like direct vessel/weapons control AND massive battles or something alike, but then it would still revolve mostly around smaller vessel dogfights, far from what EVE is about, as direct control of huge capital ships would be pointless).
I think GW2 has the best shot of being something spectacular of the MMO's to be released within the next 2 years. WHich is saynig something because there's a batch of some pretty impressive MMO titles coming up in that time period.
and @Selenes: I think you're blowing things out of proportion, relax, heed your own words, it's just a game and it's just a company. Nobody was saying in this thread that they hated Blizzard, just that Blizzard has changed a lot from the company they were and not necessarily for the better - which as someone said is an opinion, and other people can have other thoughts and opinions about it.
As for the specific relation between Vivendi, Activision and Blizzard and how the ties between them work, I'm not going to post that here: there's enough information and encyclopedia online that describe that. Suffice to say that it's an Activision director, Bobby Kotick, that has been made CEO of the holding Activision Blizzard.
I may not have any resentment (merely disappointment) towards Blizzard as it is now, but I positively dislike Kotick's stance towards gaming and game development.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The CEO of activision-blizzard formerly ran most of Activision. Hence, the man at the reins of this company, the man with the final say, is the man who ran activision, Bobby Kotick. Don't be a fanboy, realize that companies change, and they even lie, cheat, and steal. THAT is how business works. Not some nice buddy-buddy huggy huggy world. Its a world full of half-truths, lies, laywsuits, and idea theft to simply turn a profit. That is why people no longer TRUST the name Blizzard. It is not just another corporate wolf, ran by its Alpha, Activision. Remember, in business, the first name of a mutual company (in this case, ACTIVISION-Blizzard) is the one who generally runs the show after a merger.
We aren't saying they aren't doing what tons of other companies do, we are saying that the game is no longer ran by Blizzard, because Blizzard has ceased to exist as an individual company. Games such as FFXI,DAOC, and LOTRO have still managed to not touch a cash shop model, and the 2nd of those is considered by many to be the number 1 western PVP MMO, the third the best PVE, and the first is the number one Japanese MMO. So, as you can see, some companies are still more focused on actually NOT CHARGING YOU EXTRA for NORMAL content. On the other hand, as soon as Activision and Blizzard "merged" they began offering quite a few services for extra money, even those they had said NO to in the past. Soon after, they began removing a select few items from the game files (wyvern pet, gryphon pet, alganon horse) and decided to act like they hadn't already been there, and sell them for real money alongside the "charity" pets that in reality, were just a tax cut for them while actually donating NONE of their own money.
THAT, my friend, is how business works, ARTISTS make something to create it, for others to enjoy. BUSINESSES take that thing and make millions, sometimes billions off it.
I find it interesting because when news of the merger first hit so many people were so gung-ho about it. I then made a remark similiar to yours in that companies change after mergers and can even lost their identity and I got holy hell from people. some of them saying "WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? ACITIVISION MAKES GREAT GAMES"
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
They do, Guitar Hero, Tony Hawk, Call of Duty, Activision is GREAT with continuing franchises and spewing out sequel upon sequel upon sequel, even if there's not that much innovation or change from one sequel upon the next, it still gets them the money
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Yeah, marketing expansions/small tweaks to the previous game as new games is what they do best. And soon, it will also be what Activision-Blizzard does best. Hello, SC2, Diablo 3. The first part of SC2 is actually only half the game! You have to pay twice for the entire game, hah!
I'm thinking my grandchildren will one day be showing me their level 242 Orc Hunters.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Wow is already the longest lasting game on the market with this kind of playerbase.
But I don't see that continue for another 4 years, they have lost a lot of players since WotLKs release and not just because of that Chinese problem. And no AAA game have released in that time, just wait until games like TOR, GW2, FFXIV, Copernicus and WoDO will release.
6 years is a great time for a MMO and it will work fine for another year but the game is old now and it doesn't attract new players as it used to. The last few years have no one made a well funded and fun game and that gave Wow a few years but there is no chance that millions of players will play a 10 year old game, it just wont happen.
If not one of the other upcoming game is good enough to take the subs then Blizzards own upcoming game will. It should release within 4 years at least.
A great run but nothing lasts forever.
And that differs them for EA how? EA also makes similar sequels in alarming speed.
But of course, Blizzard been making sequels for a long time too. Their second game was a sequel (Battlechess 2) and Diabo 2 made them a small fortune, same for Warcraft 3.
Funny enough am I not so found of this myself, no sequel have given me the same kick as some first games have, like Diablo, Baldurs gate, Neverwinter nights, Total annhilation, Half-life... and more).
*cough* thrice. They split SC2 in three parts, one for each race with their own campaign.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Whaa- !? You didn't find games as Warcraft 3 and Baldur's Gate 2 better than their predecessors!? Blasphemy!!!
True, EA is doing the same. I think it's something to do with large companies, the business suits start dominating the company culture and taking over from the guys that initially stood at the beginning of a firm with kind of an idealism and passion for 'their child'.
Anyway, in another post you mentioned Copernicus. Funny, that was the second time I heard from it. Hmm, maybe worth checking out, thanks.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
So..150 dollars for ONE GAME split into 3? Wow. For that cost, I can buy a used system! Or a new portable one! Or even, god forbid, eat incredibly well for an entire month! I can see SC2 actually ruining Blizzard's name completely quite soon. That is, as soon as the fanboys pull their heads out of the collective sand known as WOW.
Well, depends how you look at things. I have been playing some MUDs for over 15 years.