Assume other aspects of the game are acceptable to you.
Grouping does not neccessarily mean a full group. It could mean just you and one buddy.
do we really have to yet another thread about force grouping. i feel like every time i come to mmorpg.com i see the same damn threads over and over, if it's not someone bitching about force grouping it some one looking for force grouping or a person with a poll about force group. if it's not about grouping there is a thread of someone bitching about a game devs being liars or theifs, if not that you have people asking why blah blah game sucks. or how bla blah game is so good.
i know i'm just being angry but come on how many times do we have to see, read, response to the same threads over and over again.
Let me try it again: Due to MOST not able to play 24/7 which means people play on different time zones which results in not everyone able to always group in forced group centric games, which means that people who are in different time zones should be able to have something to do besides being forced to group if they happen to come online where another time zone or when some friends or guildies are not able to be online. Again it has nothing to do with a player actually playing 24/7, it has to do with MOST NOT!!!!! being able to play 24/7.
Oh and another thing, let their be forced group MMORPG I aint against it, I just know from experiance that they don't turn out they way most pro-forced groupers seem to asume.
Why? Why must you be able to do something in a particular game because none of your friends, guildees, etc., are online? I don't need that at all.
Then why don't you just play multiplayer games?
I log on, and I can't find a group, so I can't make much progress, if any. Ok, I have no problem with that. I don't play monopoly solo either. If there's no one to play with, I don't play it. What's the big deal?
No big deal at all FOR YOU!! it seems, so I geuss you are indeed playing those games I replied first too, which are group centric? Or like most of the times with some people you might find something else to complain about those games which are group centric?? Besides is all you need is progress with grouping?, thought before you said you didn't care much about progress?
I don't think anyone has made a decent group friendly game since DAoC. A game like an MMORPG has many features, so just making it group friendly while EVERY other feature sucks certainly isn't going to result in a good game.
Well you just said if you can't group you don't play if the game is group centric, so why would you care about other feature's? You see you constantly speaking against yourself, perhaps you don't even notice that.
that's not to say that solo games can't be fun. I did enjoy City of Heroes, but it was not a very good grouping gmae. I grouped all the time I played it, but the grouping was entirely unnecessary and therefore not very satisfying.
Still CoH was fun, just not a good grouping game.
IMO, none of that makes any sense.
Why don't you play a game that's a worthless piece of crap, if it encourages grouping? Well, I could ask you the same, would you play a worthless piece of crap game, just because it's solo friendly, for example some P2P trash?
DF has absolutely nothing that interests me, not the skill system which is retarded use it to improve it so it leads to macros, not the graphics which are uniformly brown, not the FPS spells, which I believe do not belong in an RPG, and especially not FFA PvP, nor the utter lack of decent PvE. Oh look, there's absolutely nothing interesting to do, but it encourages grouping! You like that right? Uh, no.
I did not say I don't care about progress. I said I don't care about making progress solo.
If I log on to the game, and I can't find a group, I don't care if I can't make any progress. Oh no, I won't be able to solo to the next level! So what? I'll log off and do something else.
Naturally I'm not going to play an RPG that is devoid of progress, since without progress it would not BE an RPG at all.
The progress of the game is what allows you to experience new content.
New territory, new spells, new abilities, new mobs, or even new opportunities for PvP.
Assume other aspects of the game are acceptable to you.
Grouping does not neccessarily mean a full group. It could mean just you and one buddy.
do we really have to yet another thread about force grouping. i feel like every time i come to mmorpg.com i see the same damn threads over and over, if it's not someone bitching about force grouping it some one looking for force grouping or a person with a poll about force group. if it's not about grouping there is a thread of someone bitching about a game devs being liars or theifs, if not that you have people asking why blah blah game sucks. or how bla blah game is so good.
i know i'm just being angry but come on how many times do we have to see, read, response to the same threads over and over again.
Well we're all waiting with baited breath to see the next brilliant topic you are going to start a thread about. I know I'm on the edge of my seat.
And the answer to your question of course, is zero. You don't have to respond to any of the threads you're not interested in, and I'm pretty sure most would prefer you didn't.
How is this even a question? Developers can make the games however they want. Why does it have to be 'OKAY' with you for them to do it?
devs can do what they want.. it's tru but people like the OP will bitch just to bitch. there will always be one person who will always have a problem with something
Assume other aspects of the game are acceptable to you.
Grouping does not neccessarily mean a full group. It could mean just you and one buddy.
A game that offered that type of gameplay could possibly see me playing it but there are too many other factors for me to just answer yes or no as that isn't one of my strongest criteria for determining whether I play a game or not, now having a game that was extremely difficult for me to play solo would certainly eventually become a deterent for me.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
How is this even a question? Developers can make the games however they want. Why does it have to be 'OKAY' with you for them to do it?
devs can do what they want.. it's tru but people like the OP will bitch just to bitch. there will always be one person who will always have a problem with something
And someone will always bitch, about someone bitching, just to bitch.
Of course not. Your views are no more valid than my own, and if I do say so myself, not nearly as well written.
Your reply seems to have nothing to do whatsoever with either the point I was seconding, or to what I actually posted. (Your posting style isn't likely to set new standards by the way, you can take that as a given.) To be honest, you're getting a bit desperate by the sound of it, trying to use schoolyard tactics. Maybe you should just lie down and have a nice rest. We'd understand if it's all getting a bit much for you, honestly.
I will write this even though I know not many care.
The best MMO will have features created for ALL forms of game play.
You should be able to level or gain skill in any MMO solo from the start to the end game. Earning BASIC gear along the way. There should always be group focused features along the way for increased difficulty and RARE gear. NO MMO SHOULD FORCE SOLO OR GROUP PLAY. This takes away the MASSIVE part of a MMO in a multi-player game. A game that forces a single style of play will have less subs so it will be less massive. But the rewards should be based on the type of play style you chose.
If you want to solo, the gear rewards should have stats that aid you while soloing. Group rewards should be for group style play and PvP should have rewards for PvP play. All of the gear should be useable for any style, but you will have an advantage if you have the corresponding gear for your style. Solo quest grinding should give you gear that will keep you grinding. Group play should give you gear that will last much longer and allow you to skip much of the solo quests by gaining more xp and better gear in groups. PvP is PvP and you should gain gear the more you PvP. The PvP gear should allow you to solo just fine, but it would be the same as solo gear for group PvE.
So I say FORCED anything in a MMO is the wrong way to design a game. When you force players into anything, many will not play the game. You will have a small sub base and not much of a Massive MO. More features for more play styles brings in more subs for a real Massive Mult-player Online Role Playing Game.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
do we really have to yet another thread about force grouping. i feel like every time i come to mmorpg.com i see the same damn threads over and over, if it's not someone bitching about force grouping it some one looking for force grouping or a person with a poll about force group. if it's not about grouping there is a thread of someone bitching about a game devs being liars or theifs, if not that you have people asking why blah blah game sucks. or how bla blah game is so good.
i know i'm just being angry but come on how many times do we have to see, read, response to the same threads over and over again.
Until they get their way and someone hands it to them on a silver platter, apparently.
The best MMO will have features created for ALL forms of game play.
Cool! So the best MMO's have FFA PvP?
Or is that not a form of game play?
And the best MMO's have forced grouping?
Or is that not a form of game play?
If the FFA PvP is a server choice and not forced, then sure.
And no, forced grouping doesn't include ALL forms of game play does it?
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
The best MMO will have features created for ALL forms of game play.
Cool! So the best MMO's have FFA PvP?
Or is that not a form of game play?
And the best MMO's have forced grouping?
Or is that not a form of game play?
If the FFA PvP is a server choice and not forced, then sure.
And no, forced grouping doesn't include ALL forms of game play does it?
And a game with no forced grouping would not include ALL forms of game play, would it?
But yes, i think an FFA server is a great idea. Certainly it worked in DAoC.
I think a forced grouping serer would be a great idea.
ONE server on WoW that was forced grouping, for example.
Out 11 million players there woudn't be enough to fill up ONE forced grouping server?
I find that hard to believe.
I do understand what you are saying. And a server with forced grouping would be interesting to see. How many out of 11 million would try that? I don't know if it would be as many as you think. I would love to find out.
But looking at WoW as an example with it's 11 million, give or take, subs is a good idea. WoW has the most subs because it has the most "choice" in play styles for gamers. There is no FFA PvP that you like, but it has everything else. You can solo everything in WoW, start to finnish without ever grouping with anyone. You will have basic gear and not be able to PvP or Raid very well, but you could do it. It has forced grouping with dungeons along the leveling path and areas that need more than one player to complete. You are forced to group for the best gear and are expluded without it. And yet, solo or casual players have many other things to grind on to feel as though they have accomplished something.
No other game to date has as many options in game features for the most play styles. That is why, IMHO, WoW has the most subs and will continue to have the most subs untill a game tries to include every play style. Forced grouping for a part of the game is needed. But, solo and casual players need something to make it feel as though they are accomplishing something as well. If you lose any one play style, the game will lose subs. It is just that simple. So there needs to be a way to include as much as possible without alienating a gaming style.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
The best MMO will have features created for ALL forms of game play.
Cool! So the best MMO's have FFA PvP?
Or is that not a form of game play?
And the best MMO's have forced grouping?
Or is that not a form of game play?
If the FFA PvP is a server choice and not forced, then sure.
And no, forced grouping doesn't include ALL forms of game play does it?
And a game with no forced grouping would not include ALL forms of game play, would it?
But yes, i think an FFA server is a great idea. Certainly it worked in DAoC.
I think a forced grouping serer would be a great idea.
ONE server on WoW that was forced grouping, for example.
Out 11 million players there woudn't be enough to fill up ONE forced grouping server?
I find that hard to believe.
I do understand what you are saying. And a server with forced grouping would be interesting to see. How many out of 11 million would try that? I don't know if it would be as many as you think. I would love to find out.
But looking at WoW as an example with it's 11 million, give or take, subs is a good idea. WoW has the most subs because it has the most "choice" in play styles for gamers. There is no FFA PvP that you like, but it has everything else. You can solo everything in WoW, start to finnish without ever grouping with anyone. You will have basic gear and not be able to PvP or Raid very well, but you could do it. It has forced grouping with dungeons along the leveling path and areas that need more than one player to complete. You are forced to group for the best gear and are expluded without it. And yet, solo or casual players have many other things to grind on to feel as though they have accomplished something.
No other game to date has as many options in game features for the most play styles. That is why, IMHO, WoW has the most subs and will continue to have the most subs untill a game tries to include every play style. Forced grouping for a part of the game is needed. But, solo and casual players need something to make it feel as though they are accomplishing something as well. If you lose any one play style, the game will lose subs. It is just that simple. So there needs to be a way to include as much as possible without alienating a gaming style.
That's not really a "choice". WoW has only ONE game design.
WoW is solo friendly to the cap, and then raid which is forced grouping.
There aren't all these magical "choices" you keep harping on.
Your ONLY choice, is to play a solo friendly game to the cap, and then raid, which is the WoW design.
you can group all you want in WoW, and you're grouping in a solo friendly to the cap game.
If you want to pretend this is a "choice" go ahead, but it's not.
You LIKE the solo friendly to the cap, then raid end game, design of WoW.
And why not, millions of players do!
But it's not because WoW has a magical "choice" of things to do.
It's because you like the solo friendly to the cap, raid at the end game design. That's it, nothing more.
You do NOT like a group friendly game, you do NOT like FFA PvP, and probably other features that WoW doesn't include.
but those games dont' have any more or less "choice" than WoW, they are just different designs, designs you don't like.
Think about this.
You can solo in EQ. You can solo in DAoC. But they are not solo friendly.
You can group in WoW. But it is not group friendly.
How does one have more "choice" than the other?
Are not BOTH aspects, group and solo, in BOTH games?
So where's the extra " choice " in WoW that is not in EQ?
Hmmm, "...and if I do say so myself, not nearly as well written.", eh? This from a guy who quite evidently doesn't know the difference between baited and bated. I think you need a few more lessons in basic use of English before you start boasting about your literary prowess.
The best MMO will have features created for ALL forms of game play.
Cool! So the best MMO's have FFA PvP?
Or is that not a form of game play?
And the best MMO's have forced grouping?
Or is that not a form of game play?
If the FFA PvP is a server choice and not forced, then sure.
And no, forced grouping doesn't include ALL forms of game play does it?
And a game with no forced grouping would not include ALL forms of game play, would it?
But yes, i think an FFA server is a great idea. Certainly it worked in DAoC.
I think a forced grouping serer would be a great idea.
ONE server on WoW that was forced grouping, for example.
Out 11 million players there woudn't be enough to fill up ONE forced grouping server?
I find that hard to believe.
I do understand what you are saying. And a server with forced grouping would be interesting to see. How many out of 11 million would try that? I don't know if it would be as many as you think. I would love to find out.
But looking at WoW as an example with it's 11 million, give or take, subs is a good idea. WoW has the most subs because it has the most "choice" in play styles for gamers. There is no FFA PvP that you like, but it has everything else. You can solo everything in WoW, start to finnish without ever grouping with anyone. You will have basic gear and not be able to PvP or Raid very well, but you could do it. It has forced grouping with dungeons along the leveling path and areas that need more than one player to complete. You are forced to group for the best gear and are expluded without it. And yet, solo or casual players have many other things to grind on to feel as though they have accomplished something.
No other game to date has as many options in game features for the most play styles. That is why, IMHO, WoW has the most subs and will continue to have the most subs untill a game tries to include every play style. Forced grouping for a part of the game is needed. But, solo and casual players need something to make it feel as though they are accomplishing something as well. If you lose any one play style, the game will lose subs. It is just that simple. So there needs to be a way to include as much as possible without alienating a gaming style.
That's not really a "choice". WoW has only ONE game design.
WoW is solo friendly to the cap, and then raid which is forced grouping.
There aren't all these magical "choices" you keep harping on.
Your ONLY choice, is to play a solo friendly game to the cap, and then raid, which is the WoW design.
you can group all you want in WoW, and you're grouping in a solo friendly to the cap game.
If you want to pretend this is a "choice" go ahead, but it's not.
You LIKE the solo friendly to the cap, then raid end game, design of WoW.
And why not, millions of players do!
But it's not because WoW has a magical "choice" of things to do.
It's because you like the solo friendly to the cap, raid at the end game design. That's it, nothing more.
You do NOT like a group friendly game, you do NOT like FFA PvP, and probably other features that WoW doesn't include.
but those games dont' have any more or less "choice" than WoW, they are just different designs, designs you don't like.
Think about this.
You can solo in EQ. You can solo in DAoC. But they are not solo friendly.
You can group in WoW. But it is not group friendly.
How does one have more "choice" than the other?
Are not BOTH aspects, group and solo, in BOTH games?
So where's the extra " choice " in WoW that is not in EQ?
First, just to get it out of the way, I do not like WoW's current design. I did play for a year and a half pre-BC. But left soon after the BC expansion. Pre-BC was a good design because you were forced to group for your class gear runs. I had a lot of fun in my guild helping others run these for thier gear and mine. As well as the open PvP that would hapen on the PvP server from time to time. It was all about having fun with your guild mates at that time.
Now I did enjoy the FFA PvP in Darkfall and AoC for awhile and the PvP server of EQII. Even tried MO during the beta/alpha testing. But RL keeps me limited now. So yes, I am looking for different things than you are at this point. I am limited to 2 or so hours a night. Not enough time to play to gear up and skill up for PvP.
So now I would like to see MMO's that have many play styles in one game. Like WoW and it's solo style with a lot of grouping options that makes the most money. Or AoC that has a FFA PvP server but is still a solo game with grouping options and raids. These games are limiting on players like you, I know that. A FFA PvP game will not work for me now because I have no way to keep up. So I will stay away from those game as many players do from the sub base of Darkfall and MO. But I have no problem with grouping as I play AoC now and group most nights with guild mates. But there are still times I need to solo because no one is running a dungeon or needs help at the time I am on. So I would be left out of the forced grouping game you want.
So it comes down to this. There are many play styles out there. All of them want a game that fits thier game style. The problem comes down to money. Game companies want it from the players. They look at what will make the most money. FFA PvP seems to be the lowest sub base when you look at current games. So until games like Darkfall or MO bring in large subs, you will be stuck with sthat only offer a server option for you and are solo friendly. That sucks from your perspective, but it all comes down to money.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
The best MMO will have features created for ALL forms of game play.
Cool! So the best MMO's have FFA PvP?
Or is that not a form of game play?
And the best MMO's have forced grouping?
Or is that not a form of game play?
If the FFA PvP is a server choice and not forced, then sure.
And no, forced grouping doesn't include ALL forms of game play does it?
And a game with no forced grouping would not include ALL forms of game play, would it?
But yes, i think an FFA server is a great idea. Certainly it worked in DAoC.
I think a forced grouping serer would be a great idea.
ONE server on WoW that was forced grouping, for example.
Out 11 million players there woudn't be enough to fill up ONE forced grouping server?
I find that hard to believe.
I do understand what you are saying. And a server with forced grouping would be interesting to see. How many out of 11 million would try that? I don't know if it would be as many as you think. I would love to find out.
But looking at WoW as an example with it's 11 million, give or take, subs is a good idea. WoW has the most subs because it has the most "choice" in play styles for gamers. There is no FFA PvP that you like, but it has everything else. You can solo everything in WoW, start to finnish without ever grouping with anyone. You will have basic gear and not be able to PvP or Raid very well, but you could do it. It has forced grouping with dungeons along the leveling path and areas that need more than one player to complete. You are forced to group for the best gear and are expluded without it. And yet, solo or casual players have many other things to grind on to feel as though they have accomplished something.
No other game to date has as many options in game features for the most play styles. That is why, IMHO, WoW has the most subs and will continue to have the most subs untill a game tries to include every play style. Forced grouping for a part of the game is needed. But, solo and casual players need something to make it feel as though they are accomplishing something as well. If you lose any one play style, the game will lose subs. It is just that simple. So there needs to be a way to include as much as possible without alienating a gaming style.
That's not really a "choice". WoW has only ONE game design.
WoW is solo friendly to the cap, and then raid which is forced grouping.
There aren't all these magical "choices" you keep harping on.
Your ONLY choice, is to play a solo friendly game to the cap, and then raid, which is the WoW design.
you can group all you want in WoW, and you're grouping in a solo friendly to the cap game.
If you want to pretend this is a "choice" go ahead, but it's not.
You LIKE the solo friendly to the cap, then raid end game, design of WoW.
And why not, millions of players do!
But it's not because WoW has a magical "choice" of things to do.
It's because you like the solo friendly to the cap, raid at the end game design. That's it, nothing more.
You do NOT like a group friendly game, you do NOT like FFA PvP, and probably other features that WoW doesn't include.
but those games dont' have any more or less "choice" than WoW, they are just different designs, designs you don't like.
Think about this.
You can solo in EQ. You can solo in DAoC. But they are not solo friendly.
You can group in WoW. But it is not group friendly.
How does one have more "choice" than the other?
Are not BOTH aspects, group and solo, in BOTH games?
So where's the extra " choice " in WoW that is not in EQ?
First, just to get it out of the way, I do not like WoW's current design. I did play for a year and a half pre-BC. But left soon after the BC expansion. Pre-BC was a good design because you were forced to group for your class gear runs. I had a lot of fun in my guild helping others run these for thier gear and mine. As well as the open PvP that would hapen on the PvP server from time to time. It was all about having fun with your guild mates at that time.
Now I did enjoy the FFA PvP in Darkfall and AoC for awhile and the PvP server of EQII. Even tried MO during the beta/alpha testing. But RL keeps me limited now. So yes, I am looking for different things than you are at this point. I am limited to 2 or so hours a night. Not enough time to play to gear up and skill up for PvP.
So now I would like to see MMO's that have many play styles in one game. Like WoW and it's solo style with a lot of grouping options that makes the most money. Or AoC that has a FFA PvP server but is still a solo game with grouping options and raids. These games are limiting on players like you, I know that. A FFA PvP game will not work for me now because I have no way to keep up. So I will stay away from those game as many players do from the sub base of Darkfall and MO. But I have no problem with grouping as I play AoC now and group most nights with guild mates. But there are still times I need to solo because no one is running a dungeon or needs help at the time I am on. So I would be left out of the forced grouping game you want.
So it comes down to this. There are many play styles out there. All of them want a game that fits thier game style. The problem comes down to money. Game companies want it from the players. They look at what will make the most money. FFA PvP seems to be the lowest sub base when you look at current games. So until games like Darkfall or MO bring in large subs, you will be stuck with sthat only offer a server option for you and are solo friendly. That sucks from your perspective, but it all comes down to money.
Oh yes and despite WoW, Aion all other so called AAA titles are doing so well like Warhammer, Age of Conan and Lord of the Rings right? Darkfall would do wonders with more money Aventurine managed to create a great game with maybe 1 % of Blizzardsa budget just think about it.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
How is this even a question? Developers can make the games however they want. Why does it have to be 'OKAY' with you for them to do it?
devs can do what they want.. it's tru but people like the OP will bitch just to bitch. there will always be one person who will always have a problem with something
280+ post in this thread suggests you are mistaken. Even you are posting in it.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
The reason there are so many threads on grouping is because it is the concern of many posters and not just old gamers. The sticky we have just stifled debate in my opinion, if you are going to have a sticky for grouping you could add another ten stickies on hot topics and then have hardly any new threads in the Pub forum at all.
It is amusing when someone thinks that because it is possible to group in a MMO, that then indicates that grouping is perfectly balanced with soloing. This is like saying that because MMO’s have crafting, crafting is perfectly balanced with loot drops. Or because you can do PvP in a MMO, then PvP must be perfectly balanced with PvE.
I do not think we are the ones who need to grow some more brain cells when you come up with an argument like that.
After not being able to run FF or WoW, I decided not to try DDO, rather fed up of wasting time and money on old MMOs that won’t run. Not saying DDO would not run, just got fed up of the hassle.
You can group in WoW. But it is not group friendly.
I will take any group (even the very very bad ones) over an artificial NPC companion system to overcome group content.
The Tool is more important than the players.
The Tool showed grouping can be done with ease with the right tools and proper mechanics.
It is to up to the designers to further fine tune the rather rough Tool (on server - on open worlds - on attunements- on other mechanics).
The Tool wins the price of best 2010 invention in on line play.
Its embarrassing when an NPC compliments you in an MMo, the only relevant, cool and epic things come from players whispering you Grtz, mate, we did it. copyright Pilnkplonk
I'm a habitual soloer, but even I'm not keen on the "npc hireling" kind of group. I'd rather have something like the Public Quest areas in Warhammer, which worked very well indeed.
So it comes down to this. There are many play styles out there. All of them want a game that fits thier game style. The problem comes down to money. Game companies want it from the players. They look at what will make the most money. FFA PvP seems to be the lowest sub base when you look at current games. So until games like Darkfall or MO bring in large subs, you will be stuck with sthat only offer a server option for you and are solo friendly. That sucks from your perspective, but it all comes down to money.
Both Darkfall and MO, IMO, are very poorly designed games, that have FFA. No game LIKE these will ever do well, because they are both turds, despite the fact they have FFA PvP. A game with ZERO FFA PvP LIKE DF would do poorly, becuase then it would be a Turd with no FFA PvP. A turd is a turd, no matter what features you ad to it.
Darkfall has twitch combat. Many players like twitch combat, but many don't, at least not in their MMORPG.
Darkfall has a "use it to improve it skill system", instead of a class system, and this encourages macros to raise skills, and forces players to use a skill when it's not appropriate, just so they can raise it.
Now some players, may like use it to improve it skill systems, but many players prefer to play a class system.
Graphics are very subjective. Some people love WoW graphics, some don't. Darkfall is very dark and brown, and not very pleasing to the eye IMO, but others may like it.
When players are asking for FFA PvP, they are asking for an ice cream cone, and the FFA PvP is the Cherry on Top. In other words they are looking for a good game, that includes FFA PvP.
You are saying, well look, we served you a turd, and it has a cherry on top, but people don't see to like it. Obviously people don't like the Cherry they said they wanted !
Darkfall has a LOT of other negatives, IMO, besides being FFA.
I don't think you can say all FFA games will suck, because Darkfall sucks, and it has FFA.
Darkfall is a turd, with a cherry on top.
Show me a really good game that has FFA, and THEN make some arguments about it's low sub numbers and how no one likes FFA.
EVE is doing quite well financially, and it has FFA PvP.
Comments
do we really have to yet another thread about force grouping. i feel like every time i come to mmorpg.com i see the same damn threads over and over, if it's not someone bitching about force grouping it some one looking for force grouping or a person with a poll about force group. if it's not about grouping there is a thread of someone bitching about a game devs being liars or theifs, if not that you have people asking why blah blah game sucks. or how bla blah game is so good.
i know i'm just being angry but come on how many times do we have to see, read, response to the same threads over and over again.
IMO, none of that makes any sense.
Why don't you play a game that's a worthless piece of crap, if it encourages grouping? Well, I could ask you the same, would you play a worthless piece of crap game, just because it's solo friendly, for example some P2P trash?
DF has absolutely nothing that interests me, not the skill system which is retarded use it to improve it so it leads to macros, not the graphics which are uniformly brown, not the FPS spells, which I believe do not belong in an RPG, and especially not FFA PvP, nor the utter lack of decent PvE. Oh look, there's absolutely nothing interesting to do, but it encourages grouping! You like that right? Uh, no.
I did not say I don't care about progress. I said I don't care about making progress solo.
If I log on to the game, and I can't find a group, I don't care if I can't make any progress. Oh no, I won't be able to solo to the next level! So what? I'll log off and do something else.
Naturally I'm not going to play an RPG that is devoid of progress, since without progress it would not BE an RPG at all.
The progress of the game is what allows you to experience new content.
New territory, new spells, new abilities, new mobs, or even new opportunities for PvP.
How is this even a question? Developers can make the games however they want. Why does it have to be 'OKAY' with you for them to do it?
Do you know for certain?
Well we're all waiting with baited breath to see the next brilliant topic you are going to start a thread about. I know I'm on the edge of my seat.
And the answer to your question of course, is zero. You don't have to respond to any of the threads you're not interested in, and I'm pretty sure most would prefer you didn't.
devs can do what they want.. it's tru but people like the OP will bitch just to bitch. there will always be one person who will always have a problem with something
A game that offered that type of gameplay could possibly see me playing it but there are too many other factors for me to just answer yes or no as that isn't one of my strongest criteria for determining whether I play a game or not, now having a game that was extremely difficult for me to play solo would certainly eventually become a deterent for me.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
And someone will always bitch, about someone bitching, just to bitch.
Your reply seems to have nothing to do whatsoever with either the point I was seconding, or to what I actually posted. (Your posting style isn't likely to set new standards by the way, you can take that as a given.) To be honest, you're getting a bit desperate by the sound of it, trying to use schoolyard tactics. Maybe you should just lie down and have a nice rest. We'd understand if it's all getting a bit much for you, honestly.
I will write this even though I know not many care.
The best MMO will have features created for ALL forms of game play.
You should be able to level or gain skill in any MMO solo from the start to the end game. Earning BASIC gear along the way. There should always be group focused features along the way for increased difficulty and RARE gear. NO MMO SHOULD FORCE SOLO OR GROUP PLAY. This takes away the MASSIVE part of a MMO in a multi-player game. A game that forces a single style of play will have less subs so it will be less massive. But the rewards should be based on the type of play style you chose.
If you want to solo, the gear rewards should have stats that aid you while soloing. Group rewards should be for group style play and PvP should have rewards for PvP play. All of the gear should be useable for any style, but you will have an advantage if you have the corresponding gear for your style. Solo quest grinding should give you gear that will keep you grinding. Group play should give you gear that will last much longer and allow you to skip much of the solo quests by gaining more xp and better gear in groups. PvP is PvP and you should gain gear the more you PvP. The PvP gear should allow you to solo just fine, but it would be the same as solo gear for group PvE.
So I say FORCED anything in a MMO is the wrong way to design a game. When you force players into anything, many will not play the game. You will have a small sub base and not much of a Massive MO. More features for more play styles brings in more subs for a real Massive Mult-player Online Role Playing Game.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
Cool! So the best MMO's have FFA PvP?
Or is that not a form of game play?
And the best MMO's have forced grouping?
Or is that not a form of game play?
Until they get their way and someone hands it to them on a silver platter, apparently.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
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Hope: None
If the FFA PvP is a server choice and not forced, then sure.
And no, forced grouping doesn't include ALL forms of game play does it?
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
And a game with no forced grouping would not include ALL forms of game play, would it?
But yes, i think an FFA server is a great idea. Certainly it worked in DAoC.
I think a forced grouping serer would be a great idea.
ONE server on WoW that was forced grouping, for example.
Out 11 million players there woudn't be enough to fill up ONE forced grouping server?
I find that hard to believe.
I do understand what you are saying. And a server with forced grouping would be interesting to see. How many out of 11 million would try that? I don't know if it would be as many as you think. I would love to find out.
But looking at WoW as an example with it's 11 million, give or take, subs is a good idea. WoW has the most subs because it has the most "choice" in play styles for gamers. There is no FFA PvP that you like, but it has everything else. You can solo everything in WoW, start to finnish without ever grouping with anyone. You will have basic gear and not be able to PvP or Raid very well, but you could do it. It has forced grouping with dungeons along the leveling path and areas that need more than one player to complete. You are forced to group for the best gear and are expluded without it. And yet, solo or casual players have many other things to grind on to feel as though they have accomplished something.
No other game to date has as many options in game features for the most play styles. That is why, IMHO, WoW has the most subs and will continue to have the most subs untill a game tries to include every play style. Forced grouping for a part of the game is needed. But, solo and casual players need something to make it feel as though they are accomplishing something as well. If you lose any one play style, the game will lose subs. It is just that simple. So there needs to be a way to include as much as possible without alienating a gaming style.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
That's not really a "choice". WoW has only ONE game design.
WoW is solo friendly to the cap, and then raid which is forced grouping.
There aren't all these magical "choices" you keep harping on.
Your ONLY choice, is to play a solo friendly game to the cap, and then raid, which is the WoW design.
you can group all you want in WoW, and you're grouping in a solo friendly to the cap game.
If you want to pretend this is a "choice" go ahead, but it's not.
You LIKE the solo friendly to the cap, then raid end game, design of WoW.
And why not, millions of players do!
But it's not because WoW has a magical "choice" of things to do.
It's because you like the solo friendly to the cap, raid at the end game design. That's it, nothing more.
You do NOT like a group friendly game, you do NOT like FFA PvP, and probably other features that WoW doesn't include.
but those games dont' have any more or less "choice" than WoW, they are just different designs, designs you don't like.
Think about this.
You can solo in EQ. You can solo in DAoC. But they are not solo friendly.
You can group in WoW. But it is not group friendly.
How does one have more "choice" than the other?
Are not BOTH aspects, group and solo, in BOTH games?
So where's the extra " choice " in WoW that is not in EQ?
Hmmm, "...and if I do say so myself, not nearly as well written.", eh? This from a guy who quite evidently doesn't know the difference between baited and bated. I think you need a few more lessons in basic use of English before you start boasting about your literary prowess.
First, just to get it out of the way, I do not like WoW's current design. I did play for a year and a half pre-BC. But left soon after the BC expansion. Pre-BC was a good design because you were forced to group for your class gear runs. I had a lot of fun in my guild helping others run these for thier gear and mine. As well as the open PvP that would hapen on the PvP server from time to time. It was all about having fun with your guild mates at that time.
Now I did enjoy the FFA PvP in Darkfall and AoC for awhile and the PvP server of EQII. Even tried MO during the beta/alpha testing. But RL keeps me limited now. So yes, I am looking for different things than you are at this point. I am limited to 2 or so hours a night. Not enough time to play to gear up and skill up for PvP.
So now I would like to see MMO's that have many play styles in one game. Like WoW and it's solo style with a lot of grouping options that makes the most money. Or AoC that has a FFA PvP server but is still a solo game with grouping options and raids. These games are limiting on players like you, I know that. A FFA PvP game will not work for me now because I have no way to keep up. So I will stay away from those game as many players do from the sub base of Darkfall and MO. But I have no problem with grouping as I play AoC now and group most nights with guild mates. But there are still times I need to solo because no one is running a dungeon or needs help at the time I am on. So I would be left out of the forced grouping game you want.
So it comes down to this. There are many play styles out there. All of them want a game that fits thier game style. The problem comes down to money. Game companies want it from the players. They look at what will make the most money. FFA PvP seems to be the lowest sub base when you look at current games. So until games like Darkfall or MO bring in large subs, you will be stuck with sthat only offer a server option for you and are solo friendly. That sucks from your perspective, but it all comes down to money.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
Cool! So the best MMO's have FFA PvP?
Or is that not a form of game play?
And the best MMO's have forced grouping?
Or is that not a form of game play?
If the FFA PvP is a server choice and not forced, then sure.
And no, forced grouping doesn't include ALL forms of game play does it?
And a game with no forced grouping would not include ALL forms of game play, would it?
But yes, i think an FFA server is a great idea. Certainly it worked in DAoC.
I think a forced grouping serer would be a great idea.
ONE server on WoW that was forced grouping, for example.
Out 11 million players there woudn't be enough to fill up ONE forced grouping server?
I find that hard to believe.
I do understand what you are saying. And a server with forced grouping would be interesting to see. How many out of 11 million would try that? I don't know if it would be as many as you think. I would love to find out.
But looking at WoW as an example with it's 11 million, give or take, subs is a good idea. WoW has the most subs because it has the most "choice" in play styles for gamers. There is no FFA PvP that you like, but it has everything else. You can solo everything in WoW, start to finnish without ever grouping with anyone. You will have basic gear and not be able to PvP or Raid very well, but you could do it. It has forced grouping with dungeons along the leveling path and areas that need more than one player to complete. You are forced to group for the best gear and are expluded without it. And yet, solo or casual players have many other things to grind on to feel as though they have accomplished something.
No other game to date has as many options in game features for the most play styles. That is why, IMHO, WoW has the most subs and will continue to have the most subs untill a game tries to include every play style. Forced grouping for a part of the game is needed. But, solo and casual players need something to make it feel as though they are accomplishing something as well. If you lose any one play style, the game will lose subs. It is just that simple. So there needs to be a way to include as much as possible without alienating a gaming style.
That's not really a "choice". WoW has only ONE game design.
WoW is solo friendly to the cap, and then raid which is forced grouping.
There aren't all these magical "choices" you keep harping on.
Your ONLY choice, is to play a solo friendly game to the cap, and then raid, which is the WoW design.
you can group all you want in WoW, and you're grouping in a solo friendly to the cap game.
If you want to pretend this is a "choice" go ahead, but it's not.
You LIKE the solo friendly to the cap, then raid end game, design of WoW.
And why not, millions of players do!
But it's not because WoW has a magical "choice" of things to do.
It's because you like the solo friendly to the cap, raid at the end game design. That's it, nothing more.
You do NOT like a group friendly game, you do NOT like FFA PvP, and probably other features that WoW doesn't include.
but those games dont' have any more or less "choice" than WoW, they are just different designs, designs you don't like.
Think about this.
You can solo in EQ. You can solo in DAoC. But they are not solo friendly.
You can group in WoW. But it is not group friendly.
How does one have more "choice" than the other?
Are not BOTH aspects, group and solo, in BOTH games?
So where's the extra " choice " in WoW that is not in EQ?
First, just to get it out of the way, I do not like WoW's current design. I did play for a year and a half pre-BC. But left soon after the BC expansion. Pre-BC was a good design because you were forced to group for your class gear runs. I had a lot of fun in my guild helping others run these for thier gear and mine. As well as the open PvP that would hapen on the PvP server from time to time. It was all about having fun with your guild mates at that time.
Now I did enjoy the FFA PvP in Darkfall and AoC for awhile and the PvP server of EQII. Even tried MO during the beta/alpha testing. But RL keeps me limited now. So yes, I am looking for different things than you are at this point. I am limited to 2 or so hours a night. Not enough time to play to gear up and skill up for PvP.
So now I would like to see MMO's that have many play styles in one game. Like WoW and it's solo style with a lot of grouping options that makes the most money. Or AoC that has a FFA PvP server but is still a solo game with grouping options and raids. These games are limiting on players like you, I know that. A FFA PvP game will not work for me now because I have no way to keep up. So I will stay away from those game as many players do from the sub base of Darkfall and MO. But I have no problem with grouping as I play AoC now and group most nights with guild mates. But there are still times I need to solo because no one is running a dungeon or needs help at the time I am on. So I would be left out of the forced grouping game you want.
So it comes down to this. There are many play styles out there. All of them want a game that fits thier game style. The problem comes down to money. Game companies want it from the players. They look at what will make the most money. FFA PvP seems to be the lowest sub base when you look at current games. So until games like Darkfall or MO bring in large subs, you will be stuck with sthat only offer a server option for you and are solo friendly. That sucks from your perspective, but it all comes down to money.
Oh yes and despite WoW, Aion all other so called AAA titles are doing so well like Warhammer, Age of Conan and Lord of the Rings right? Darkfall would do wonders with more money Aventurine managed to create a great game with maybe 1 % of Blizzardsa budget just think about it.We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
280+ post in this thread suggests you are mistaken. Even you are posting in it.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Dungeons & Dragons Online?
The reason there are so many threads on grouping is because it is the concern of many posters and not just old gamers. The sticky we have just stifled debate in my opinion, if you are going to have a sticky for grouping you could add another ten stickies on hot topics and then have hardly any new threads in the Pub forum at all.
It is amusing when someone thinks that because it is possible to group in a MMO, that then indicates that grouping is perfectly balanced with soloing. This is like saying that because MMO’s have crafting, crafting is perfectly balanced with loot drops. Or because you can do PvP in a MMO, then PvP must be perfectly balanced with PvE.
I do not think we are the ones who need to grow some more brain cells when you come up with an argument like that.
After not being able to run FF or WoW, I decided not to try DDO, rather fed up of wasting time and money on old MMOs that won’t run. Not saying DDO would not run, just got fed up of the hassle.
I will take any group (even the very very bad ones) over an artificial NPC companion system to overcome group content.
The Tool is more important than the players.
The Tool showed grouping can be done with ease with the right tools and proper mechanics.
It is to up to the designers to further fine tune the rather rough Tool (on server - on open worlds - on attunements- on other mechanics).
The Tool wins the price of best 2010 invention in on line play.
Its embarrassing when an NPC compliments you in an MMo, the only relevant, cool and epic things come from players whispering you Grtz, mate, we did it. copyright Pilnkplonk
I'm a habitual soloer, but even I'm not keen on the "npc hireling" kind of group. I'd rather have something like the Public Quest areas in Warhammer, which worked very well indeed.
Both Darkfall and MO, IMO, are very poorly designed games, that have FFA. No game LIKE these will ever do well, because they are both turds, despite the fact they have FFA PvP. A game with ZERO FFA PvP LIKE DF would do poorly, becuase then it would be a Turd with no FFA PvP. A turd is a turd, no matter what features you ad to it.
Darkfall has twitch combat. Many players like twitch combat, but many don't, at least not in their MMORPG.
Darkfall has a "use it to improve it skill system", instead of a class system, and this encourages macros to raise skills, and forces players to use a skill when it's not appropriate, just so they can raise it.
Now some players, may like use it to improve it skill systems, but many players prefer to play a class system.
Graphics are very subjective. Some people love WoW graphics, some don't. Darkfall is very dark and brown, and not very pleasing to the eye IMO, but others may like it.
When players are asking for FFA PvP, they are asking for an ice cream cone, and the FFA PvP is the Cherry on Top. In other words they are looking for a good game, that includes FFA PvP.
You are saying, well look, we served you a turd, and it has a cherry on top, but people don't see to like it. Obviously people don't like the Cherry they said they wanted !
Darkfall has a LOT of other negatives, IMO, besides being FFA.
I don't think you can say all FFA games will suck, because Darkfall sucks, and it has FFA.
Darkfall is a turd, with a cherry on top.
Show me a really good game that has FFA, and THEN make some arguments about it's low sub numbers and how no one likes FFA.
EVE is doing quite well financially, and it has FFA PvP.
Forced grouping to play a game.. No
I get enough forced whatever in RL, will not put up with it in a game.
"Huntress"