I voted no, because a yes vote would've probably been used to ham-fistedly argue for the bad implementations of forced grouping which have existed in the past.
However I enjoy games like MW2, where one cannot advance in multiplayer without a team. This is forced grouping, but grouping is effortless (you just queue up) and avoids most of the negatives commonly associated with other "forced grouping" games. If a MMORPG was similarly designed, I would be fine with that.
I have no intention of 'using' the poll. I just wanted to see what others thought about the question.
It would have been better if you had voted honestly, or even not at all - without trying to 'out-think' the poll.
He makes a good point about the weakness of the poll though. There are multiple ways "forced grouping" could be implemented and the poll choices don't account for that. I bet most people are thinking of the FFXI version of forced grouping where they'd spend hours looking for groups and then meeting up at some camp, waiting for everyone to gather and get ready, etc.
They probably aren't thinking of it in the Global Agenda way, where you cannot advance without partaking in a team-based activity, but there's a quick and easy queue system to match you with cross-server groups and put you right where you need to be to start playing. Had the poll been rephrased to account for options such as: "Forced grouping if you had to spend little to no time on average assembling groups," and "Forced grouping the old fashioned way," the response might have been more meaningful.
There is nothing in the words Massive Multyplayer Online Role Playing Game that says you must be grouped.
Multiplayer.
MMOs are the only multiplayer games that people expect to be able to solo in.
I don't have to group with someone when I'm PVPing with/against them.
Fighting with or against someone is still playing the game with them.
I don't have to group with someone when I'm trading with them.
That's not soloing. It's interacting with another player.
I don't have to group with someone when I'm talking to them.
MMOs are more than chat rooms.
I don't even have to group with someone to help them kill stuff.
That is grouping, whether it's official or not.
Multiplayer doesn't require grouping.
It requires interacting with other players. Whether you call it grouping or not.
I agree entirely. Interacting with other players is one of the reasons that I enjoy MMOs. I can't imagine anyone wanting to play an MMO with absolutely no interaction with other players. I want to interact with other players, but I don't (always) want to group with them.
Interaction without grouping is, and has always been a key element to MMOs.
There is nothing in the words Massive Multyplayer Online Role Playing Game that says you must be grouped.
Multiplayer.
MMOs are the only multiplayer games that people expect to be able to solo in.
I don't have to group with someone when I'm PVPing with/against them.
Fighting with or against someone is still playing the game with them.
I don't have to group with someone when I'm trading with them.
That's not soloing. It's interacting with another player.
I don't have to group with someone when I'm talking to them.
MMOs are more than chat rooms.
I don't even have to group with someone to help them kill stuff.
That is grouping, whether it's official or not.
Multiplayer doesn't require grouping.
It requires interacting with other players. Whether you call it grouping or not.
I agree entirely. Interacting with other players is one of the reasons that I enjoy MMOs. I can't imagine anyone wanting to play an MMO with absolutely no interaction with other players. I want to interact with other players, but I don't (always) want to group with them.
Interaction without grouping is, and has always been a key element to MMOs.
Absolutely! I've said before that when I was playing AO, I used to spend some of my time sitting outside Finest Edition crafting for people for free. Anyone who wanted anything created, bring me the components and I'll be happy to make it for you, no charge. If you wanted suggestions for how to set up your implants or spend your skill points, I'd be happy to help there too. It was fun and I talked to tons and tons of people. That's interaction. I never grouped with any of them and mostly, I never even saw them again but there were a few that became really good friends, which gave me a wide range of people I knew both inside and outside my clan.
That's what interaction is. It's not mindlessly using other people to get something you can't get on your own, it's talking to others and getting to know people entirely outside of hacking and slashing.
eq1 forced to group, you couldnt solo mobs past a certain level, you could of soloed but i meen there was no point and i loved it. Forced grouping just meens a game design requires you to group. I think its super sick.
I am trying to recover from the idea of Cephus doing all that crafting interaction…quite at odds with the persona of ‘Mr Solo’ as I think of him.
I certainly agree that chat like that is very interactive, and I can see the appeal of it not being ‘forced’ in any way. But as I have banged on about before, I want to see as much being interactive as possible. That includes the hack and slash, but that is certainly the area where any ‘forcing’ will cause the most issues.
Never having played SWG I was always intrigued by the ‘fatigue’ which players got, which ‘forced’ them to go and chill in a bar or club and listen to a player dancer/singer. This ‘fatigue’ was like a debuff which grew as you got xp. I really like that idea and it brings home the concept that you are only forced to do something when you think you are being forced. A mechanic which made people want to socialise in a bar is not ‘forcing’ to me. (sorry for over use of the force )
I am trying to recover from the idea of Cephus doing all that crafting interaction…quite at odds with the persona of ‘Mr Solo’ as I think of him.
That's because you've got it in your head that social interaction = grouping, which is absolutely not the case. You never have to group with anyone to be social. There were lots of us who would be off playing solo, but having complex discussions both in private chat windows and in clan chat. You'd have someone talking, then go silent for a couple of minutes before coming back and saying "sorry, almost got my ass handed to me!" I'm not remotely anti-social, I just have a playstyle that doesn't lend itself to grouping with the overwhelming majority of people. I can rarely play at a single sitting for more than 15-20 minutes without having to get up and do something, plus I am very detailed, I don't rush through and kill everything as fast as I can, I take my time, loot absolutely everything, etc. Both of these things make it virtually impossible for me to group, therefore I don't.
I certainly agree that chat like that is very interactive, and I can see the appeal of it not being ‘forced’ in any way. But as I have banged on about before, I want to see as much being interactive as possible. That includes the hack and slash, but that is certainly the area where any ‘forcing’ will cause the most issues.
Well good, you do that. I'm not going to. Stop trying to force me to play the way you want to play.
Never having played SWG I was always intrigued by the ‘fatigue’ which players got, which ‘forced’ them to go and chill in a bar or club and listen to a player dancer/singer. This ‘fatigue’ was like a debuff which grew as you got xp. I really like that idea and it brings home the concept that you are only forced to do something when you think you are being forced. A mechanic which made people want to socialise in a bar is not ‘forcing’ to me. (sorry for over use of the force )
While I did play SWG, today that mechanic simply wouldn't work for me. I've got a lot going on, if I had forced downtime, I'd either log off, or just go do something else until I could get back to playing the game. My time is limited and valuable. Having someone artificially force me not to play a game that I am paying to play isn't going to make me want to keep paying.
While I did play SWG, today that mechanic simply wouldn't work for me. I've got a lot going on, if I had forced downtime, I'd either log off, or just go do something else until I could get back to playing the game. My time is limited and valuable. Having someone artificially force me not to play a game that I am paying to play isn't going to make me want to keep paying.
Too true. During downtimes, I do everything else but socialize with the people in the game. Check forums, chat in IRC, watch TV, play another game... Forcing more downtime isn't going to make me socialize more and neither does forced grouping. I'll just do something else while the group is getting together. Once I'm in a full group, I expect us to do some content -> play the game, not sit on our asses and "socialize". IRC, Messenger, TS, Vent, Mumble and real life etc. are for that. Pick your poison. Just expect me to be AFK when there's nothing happening in the game.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
While I did play SWG, today that mechanic simply wouldn't work for me. I've got a lot going on, if I had forced downtime, I'd either log off, or just go do something else until I could get back to playing the game. My time is limited and valuable. Having someone artificially force me not to play a game that I am paying to play isn't going to make me want to keep paying.
Too true. During downtimes, I do everything else but socialize with the people in the game. Check forums, chat in IRC, watch TV, play another game... Forcing more downtime isn't going to make me socialize more and neither does forced grouping. I'll just do something else while the group is getting together. Once I'm in a full group, I expect us to do some content -> play the game, not sit on our asses and "socialize". IRC, Messenger, TS, Vent, Mumble and real life etc. are for that. Pick your poison. Just expect me to be AFK when there's nothing happening in the game.
Exactly. If the people are worth socializing with, then I'll talk to them. If they're obnoxious assholes, then no amount of downtime is going to make me want to spend a moment longer with them than I absolutely have to. I'm playing a game to play a game. I'm not doing it to socialize and so long as I'm funding my gameplay out of my own pocket, then I'm going to be the one to direct what's done.
Quirhid said ‘during downtimes’, I am puzzled, I have never played a MMO where you actually had a ‘down time’. There is nothing I have done in a MMO which had any substantial time when you could be away from the PC. The nearest would be crafting where a batch would take 5 minutes, not really time to do much else in. I hope we are not talking about macros’s you might as well not play a game if the PC is playing your character for you.
This is why the idea of the SWG downtime intrigued me, how could that idea be used to promote player interaction? It does not have to be a chat shop, those who had died too often might have to do a group crafting ‘time out’ for example.
I think we have talked about this before, have a little faith in your fellow players they are not all idiots. You cannot assume that because you like the same game you will like talking to someone, but give them the benefit of the doubt. When it comes to directing what’s done you are following a set number of linear paths, the ruts in the ground showing how many have been here before you. That sense of freedom, of choice is as much an illusion as being ‘forced’ to group is.
Quirhid said ‘during downtimes’, I am puzzled, I have never played a MMO where you actually had a ‘down time’. There is nothing I have done in a MMO which had any substantial time when you could be away from the PC. The nearest would be crafting where a batch would take 5 minutes, not really time to do much else in. I hope we are not talking about macros’s you might as well not play a game if the PC is playing your character for you.
This is why the idea of the SWG downtime intrigued me, how could that idea be used to promote player interaction? It does not have to be a chat shop, those who had died too often might have to do a group crafting ‘time out’ for example.
I think we have talked about this before, have a little faith in your fellow players they are not all idiots. You cannot assume that because you like the same game you will like talking to someone, but give them the benefit of the doubt. When it comes to directing what’s done you are following a set number of linear paths, the ruts in the ground showing how many have been here before you. That sense of freedom, of choice is as much an illusion as being ‘forced’ to group is.
Well... downtimes come from variety of sources for example waiting for a group to fill up to do a hard quest/dungeon etc, waiting for your friend to get to you (no fast travel), crafting (although they do tend to have these annoying minigames attached to them. macros would be welcome), queuing for PvP or PvE, resource gathering, camping mobs, POS bashing in Eve( Damn how I am jealous of those Amarr pilots who don't have to reload every once in a while). Infact Eve has inspired a new hobby for me: Reading audio books while playing.
95% of the stuff other than PvP is so mundane and easy that it is quite possible to read an audio book while playing. Then when there's downtime, I just lean back in my chair and listen to the book exclusively. Richard Dawkin's God Delusion was quite good. It was read by the author himself.
All waiting is downtime, and implementing more downtime for the sake of socializing just sounds horrible to me. Like Cephus, I play the game to play the game. I don't play the game to socialize - atleast it is not my primary objective and I can do without it.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
While I did play SWG, today that mechanic simply wouldn't work for me. I've got a lot going on, if I had forced downtime, I'd either log off, or just go do something else until I could get back to playing the game. My time is limited and valuable. Having someone artificially force me not to play a game that I am paying to play isn't going to make me want to keep paying.
Too true. During downtimes, I do everything else but socialize with the people in the game. Check forums, chat in IRC, watch TV, play another game... Forcing more downtime isn't going to make me socialize more and neither does forced grouping. I'll just do something else while the group is getting together. Once I'm in a full group, I expect us to do some content -> play the game, not sit on our asses and "socialize". IRC, Messenger, TS, Vent, Mumble and real life etc. are for that. Pick your poison. Just expect me to be AFK when there's nothing happening in the game.
Exactly. If the people are worth socializing with, then I'll talk to them. If they're obnoxious assholes, then no amount of downtime is going to make me want to spend a moment longer with them than I absolutely have to. I'm playing a game to play a game. I'm not doing it to socialize and so long as I'm funding my gameplay out of my own pocket, then I'm going to be the one to direct what's done.
Damn right. I started playing online with people during the pre-internet days when Bulletin Boards ran text games, then moved on to MMORPGs when they first emerged. Over the years I've encountered so many dickheads in MMORPGs, in comparison to interesting and articulate players, that I just can't be bothered to sort the wheat from the chaff any more. There will be some great people out there, naturally, but I'm not prepared to seek them out amongst all the idiots out there. Not any more. It takes so much time it just isn't worth the small return.
I'd rather listen to music while I game, or voice-chat with real-life friends and family.
Damn right. I started playing online with people during the pre-internet days when Bulletin Boards ran text games, then moved on to MMORPGs when they first emerged. Over the years I've encountered so many dickheads in MMORPGs, in comparison to interesting and articulate players, that I just can't be bothered to sort the wheat from the chaff any more. There will be some great people out there, naturally, but I'm not prepared to seek them out amongst all the idiots out there. Not any more. It takes so much time it just isn't worth the small return.
I'd rather listen to music while I game, or voice-chat with real-life friends and family.
Ah yes. the good old door games and dial-up BBSs, those were the days. Okay, not really but I know what you mean. It's bad enough with all the idiots around here, I don't want to get into a game I'm paying to play and have to rely on morons for my entertainment. It's easier to just play by myself, at least I know I can count on myself and will never stab myself in the back.
I suppose it depends so much on what MMO’s you have played. I have had downtime waiting for a group/friend but not crafting. When I was ‘queuing’ for pvp I was always doing something else, resource gathering has never really involved waiting only moving and gathering.
I do remember a mate telling me he would sometimes go and make a coffee in Eve, certain activities meant he could be afk for short periods.
Bloody hell guys you are making me feel care bear…me! But if you get yourself into a decent guild, remembering you need to put time in to get something out, you will find your follow players are not that bad. And if they are you can always play a FPS and shoot them in the back.
I haven't experience any large amount of downtime in the more recent games I have played: COH, LOTRO and beta's STO and CO. I sure do remember down time during my EQ days though... sometimes hours of camping a spawn. The thing is though. It wasn't as bad as it sounded. Sure I had more time then compared to now, but those downtimes is where I spent a lot of time socializing. I mean in EQ you woudl find a group and pretty much stick together for the night/day. ALl the other games I've played, you'd be lucky if the same people stick around past one or two quests.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
I haven't experience any large amount of downtime in the more recent games I have played: COH, LOTRO and beta's STO and CO. I sure do remember down time during my EQ days though... sometimes hours of camping a spawn. The thing is though. It wasn't as bad as it sounded. Sure I had more time then compared to now, but those downtimes is where I spent a lot of time socializing. I mean in EQ you woudl find a group and pretty much stick together for the night/day. ALl the other games I've played, you'd be lucky if the same people stick around past one or two quests.
Except people are pointing out that you don't need downtime to socialize, most of us can socialize while we're actually playing the game. Most of what you're talking about isn't socializing, it's abject boredom, leaving you with nothing better to do than talk to strangers who are likewise sitting around picking their asses. That's not very fun. If I wanted to sit around and talk to strangers for no particular reason, I could get on IRC for free.
And there are plenty of games where downtime is a part of the game. Take EvE for example. I remember spending tons of time just travelling from gate to gate to gate. Long, long, long amounts of time, just watching their screensavers go by. Nothing to do but watch and yawn.
Yes, but only in the sense that exp should come faster in groups than solo. Your rep in the community should be a factor in any MMO. Todays solo friendly games kill the true multi player aspect of this genre.
Yes, but only in the sense that exp should come faster in groups than solo. Your rep in the community should be a factor in any MMO. Todays solo friendly games kill the true multi player aspect of this genre.
Depends what you mean by "faster".
faster as in, over say 1 hour, your total xp from grouping due to being able to kill more enemies faster, being higher. that i agree with
faster as in games that do crap like add bonuses to xp gained from each mob killed for being in a group, im agains and find just plain ridiculous. if anything it should be the exact opposite. it takes more skill/work on the soloers part to take down that mob than it does for a group of 8 people to gangrape that 1 mob, and they should be rewarded more for being able to do so.
I easily support forced grouping for advancement past a learning curve level which I'd probably say is around the 30-50% to max level mark. The point being that why the hell play an MMO if your going to just solo. MMO's are made for co-op play and competition. They are not IMO made by the developers with in mind showing off the biggest epeen with all your leet gear that you got soloing.
If you want to solo play a single player game, if you don't have time to group always work on alts who are lower level. If you get stuck midgame because you won't or can't group maybe you should never have joined a genre designed around multiple players.
If you want to solo play a single player game, if you don't have time to group always work on alts who are lower level. If you get stuck midgame because you won't or can't group maybe you should never have joined a genre designed around multiple players.
Once again; the MMO genre was designed around player interaction, not just grouping.
If you want to solo play a single player game, if you don't have time to group always work on alts who are lower level. If you get stuck midgame because you won't or can't group maybe you should never have joined a genre designed around multiple players.
Once again; the MMO genre was designed around player interaction, not just grouping.
Playing solo => no player interaction. Solo should be something you#re doing while waiting for a group. The more you can accomplish solo the worse the community will become. If you have to group to succeed you can't act like an idiot because soon you won't find groups.
If solo is that important for you, play a single player game really that simple.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
There should definitely be entertaining activies to perform while waiting for someone to group with. Crafting, gathering mats, fishing, etc.
Give us a card game we can play while waiting around. Give us a dueling system that has some minor rewards (a healing or mana potion, for example).
If everyone has to travel to a dungeon entrance, then put something at the entrance to occupy our time while we wait for stragglers. Make a dungeon multiple sections - the main area for a whole party, and a minor area with trash mobs and some minor loot to goof around in while we wait.
Give us content for groups of two or three players, not just a full group. Eliminate death penalties for groups, so players aren't so particular about going with a full group with just the right mix and everyone having the right spec and gear. There is so little adventure now.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
If you want to solo play a single player game, if you don't have time to group always work on alts who are lower level. If you get stuck midgame because you won't or can't group maybe you should never have joined a genre designed around multiple players.
Well here is a great way to send a genre to it's death. Nothing says success like a shrinking playerbase. I most have missed the news flash where all MMOs had to be designed one way and one way only, to cater to people who wants groups or nothing. In any event, that is not what the OP said. He never said the entire genre had to be catered to what he wants, just whether a game or maybe a few games would be sucessful if they forced grouping on its playerbase. You have to keep in mind forced is not the same thing as strongly encourage (aka, bonuses and benefits to loot, xp, whatever when in a group vs. solo ventures).
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
Comments
He makes a good point about the weakness of the poll though. There are multiple ways "forced grouping" could be implemented and the poll choices don't account for that. I bet most people are thinking of the FFXI version of forced grouping where they'd spend hours looking for groups and then meeting up at some camp, waiting for everyone to gather and get ready, etc.
They probably aren't thinking of it in the Global Agenda way, where you cannot advance without partaking in a team-based activity, but there's a quick and easy queue system to match you with cross-server groups and put you right where you need to be to start playing. Had the poll been rephrased to account for options such as: "Forced grouping if you had to spend little to no time on average assembling groups," and "Forced grouping the old fashioned way," the response might have been more meaningful.
I agree entirely. Interacting with other players is one of the reasons that I enjoy MMOs. I can't imagine anyone wanting to play an MMO with absolutely no interaction with other players. I want to interact with other players, but I don't (always) want to group with them.
Interaction without grouping is, and has always been a key element to MMOs.
Absolutely! I've said before that when I was playing AO, I used to spend some of my time sitting outside Finest Edition crafting for people for free. Anyone who wanted anything created, bring me the components and I'll be happy to make it for you, no charge. If you wanted suggestions for how to set up your implants or spend your skill points, I'd be happy to help there too. It was fun and I talked to tons and tons of people. That's interaction. I never grouped with any of them and mostly, I never even saw them again but there were a few that became really good friends, which gave me a wide range of people I knew both inside and outside my clan.
That's what interaction is. It's not mindlessly using other people to get something you can't get on your own, it's talking to others and getting to know people entirely outside of hacking and slashing.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
eq1 forced to group, you couldnt solo mobs past a certain level, you could of soloed but i meen there was no point and i loved it. Forced grouping just meens a game design requires you to group. I think its super sick.
Bollocks to that! What a laughable concept.
Maybe you couldn't, but I basically soloed up to 70+ on several characters and had no trouble at all. EQ didn't "force" you to group.
I am trying to recover from the idea of Cephus doing all that crafting interaction…quite at odds with the persona of ‘Mr Solo’ as I think of him.
I certainly agree that chat like that is very interactive, and I can see the appeal of it not being ‘forced’ in any way. But as I have banged on about before, I want to see as much being interactive as possible. That includes the hack and slash, but that is certainly the area where any ‘forcing’ will cause the most issues.
Never having played SWG I was always intrigued by the ‘fatigue’ which players got, which ‘forced’ them to go and chill in a bar or club and listen to a player dancer/singer. This ‘fatigue’ was like a debuff which grew as you got xp. I really like that idea and it brings home the concept that you are only forced to do something when you think you are being forced. A mechanic which made people want to socialise in a bar is not ‘forcing’ to me. (sorry for over use of the force
Forced grouping Rocks, I hate waiting for idiots to get their act together in entering an instance .
MMOS are enough of a timesink as it is.
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Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Too true. During downtimes, I do everything else but socialize with the people in the game. Check forums, chat in IRC, watch TV, play another game... Forcing more downtime isn't going to make me socialize more and neither does forced grouping. I'll just do something else while the group is getting together. Once I'm in a full group, I expect us to do some content -> play the game, not sit on our asses and "socialize". IRC, Messenger, TS, Vent, Mumble and real life etc. are for that. Pick your poison. Just expect me to be AFK when there's nothing happening in the game.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Exactly. If the people are worth socializing with, then I'll talk to them. If they're obnoxious assholes, then no amount of downtime is going to make me want to spend a moment longer with them than I absolutely have to. I'm playing a game to play a game. I'm not doing it to socialize and so long as I'm funding my gameplay out of my own pocket, then I'm going to be the one to direct what's done.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Quirhid said ‘during downtimes’, I am puzzled, I have never played a MMO where you actually had a ‘down time’. There is nothing I have done in a MMO which had any substantial time when you could be away from the PC. The nearest would be crafting where a batch would take 5 minutes, not really time to do much else in. I hope we are not talking about macros’s you might as well not play a game if the PC is playing your character for you.
This is why the idea of the SWG downtime intrigued me, how could that idea be used to promote player interaction? It does not have to be a chat shop, those who had died too often might have to do a group crafting ‘time out’ for example.
I think we have talked about this before, have a little faith in your fellow players they are not all idiots. You cannot assume that because you like the same game you will like talking to someone, but give them the benefit of the doubt. When it comes to directing what’s done you are following a set number of linear paths, the ruts in the ground showing how many have been here before you. That sense of freedom, of choice is as much an illusion as being ‘forced’ to group is.
Well... downtimes come from variety of sources for example waiting for a group to fill up to do a hard quest/dungeon etc, waiting for your friend to get to you (no fast travel), crafting (although they do tend to have these annoying minigames attached to them. macros would be welcome), queuing for PvP or PvE, resource gathering, camping mobs, POS bashing in Eve( Damn how I am jealous of those Amarr pilots who don't have to reload every once in a while). Infact Eve has inspired a new hobby for me: Reading audio books while playing.
95% of the stuff other than PvP is so mundane and easy that it is quite possible to read an audio book while playing. Then when there's downtime, I just lean back in my chair and listen to the book exclusively. Richard Dawkin's God Delusion was quite good. It was read by the author himself.
All waiting is downtime, and implementing more downtime for the sake of socializing just sounds horrible to me. Like Cephus, I play the game to play the game. I don't play the game to socialize - atleast it is not my primary objective and I can do without it.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Damn right. I started playing online with people during the pre-internet days when Bulletin Boards ran text games, then moved on to MMORPGs when they first emerged. Over the years I've encountered so many dickheads in MMORPGs, in comparison to interesting and articulate players, that I just can't be bothered to sort the wheat from the chaff any more. There will be some great people out there, naturally, but I'm not prepared to seek them out amongst all the idiots out there. Not any more. It takes so much time it just isn't worth the small return.
I'd rather listen to music while I game, or voice-chat with real-life friends and family.
Ah yes. the good old door games and dial-up BBSs, those were the days. Okay, not really but I know what you mean. It's bad enough with all the idiots around here, I don't want to get into a game I'm paying to play and have to rely on morons for my entertainment. It's easier to just play by myself, at least I know I can count on myself and will never stab myself in the back.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
I suppose it depends so much on what MMO’s you have played. I have had downtime waiting for a group/friend but not crafting. When I was ‘queuing’ for pvp I was always doing something else, resource gathering has never really involved waiting only moving and gathering.
I do remember a mate telling me he would sometimes go and make a coffee in Eve, certain activities meant he could be afk for short periods.
Bloody hell guys you are making me feel care bear…me! But if you get yourself into a decent guild, remembering you need to put time in to get something out, you will find your follow players are not that bad. And if they are you can always play a FPS and shoot them in the back.
I haven't experience any large amount of downtime in the more recent games I have played: COH, LOTRO and beta's STO and CO. I sure do remember down time during my EQ days though... sometimes hours of camping a spawn. The thing is though. It wasn't as bad as it sounded. Sure I had more time then compared to now, but those downtimes is where I spent a lot of time socializing. I mean in EQ you woudl find a group and pretty much stick together for the night/day. ALl the other games I've played, you'd be lucky if the same people stick around past one or two quests.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
Except people are pointing out that you don't need downtime to socialize, most of us can socialize while we're actually playing the game. Most of what you're talking about isn't socializing, it's abject boredom, leaving you with nothing better to do than talk to strangers who are likewise sitting around picking their asses. That's not very fun. If I wanted to sit around and talk to strangers for no particular reason, I could get on IRC for free.
And there are plenty of games where downtime is a part of the game. Take EvE for example. I remember spending tons of time just travelling from gate to gate to gate. Long, long, long amounts of time, just watching their screensavers go by. Nothing to do but watch and yawn.
No thanks.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Yes, but only in the sense that exp should come faster in groups than solo. Your rep in the community should be a factor in any MMO. Todays solo friendly games kill the true multi player aspect of this genre.
Depends what you mean by "faster".
faster as in, over say 1 hour, your total xp from grouping due to being able to kill more enemies faster, being higher. that i agree with
faster as in games that do crap like add bonuses to xp gained from each mob killed for being in a group, im agains and find just plain ridiculous. if anything it should be the exact opposite. it takes more skill/work on the soloers part to take down that mob than it does for a group of 8 people to gangrape that 1 mob, and they should be rewarded more for being able to do so.
I easily support forced grouping for advancement past a learning curve level which I'd probably say is around the 30-50% to max level mark. The point being that why the hell play an MMO if your going to just solo. MMO's are made for co-op play and competition. They are not IMO made by the developers with in mind showing off the biggest epeen with all your leet gear that you got soloing.
If you want to solo play a single player game, if you don't have time to group always work on alts who are lower level. If you get stuck midgame because you won't or can't group maybe you should never have joined a genre designed around multiple players.
Once again; the MMO genre was designed around player interaction, not just grouping.
Playing solo => no player interaction. Solo should be something you#re doing while waiting for a group. The more you can accomplish solo the worse the community will become. If you have to group to succeed you can't act like an idiot because soon you won't find groups.
If solo is that important for you, play a single player game really that simple.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
There should definitely be entertaining activies to perform while waiting for someone to group with. Crafting, gathering mats, fishing, etc.
Give us a card game we can play while waiting around. Give us a dueling system that has some minor rewards (a healing or mana potion, for example).
If everyone has to travel to a dungeon entrance, then put something at the entrance to occupy our time while we wait for stragglers. Make a dungeon multiple sections - the main area for a whole party, and a minor area with trash mobs and some minor loot to goof around in while we wait.
Give us content for groups of two or three players, not just a full group. Eliminate death penalties for groups, so players aren't so particular about going with a full group with just the right mix and everyone having the right spec and gear. There is so little adventure now.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Well here is a great way to send a genre to it's death. Nothing says success like a shrinking playerbase. I most have missed the news flash where all MMOs had to be designed one way and one way only, to cater to people who wants groups or nothing. In any event, that is not what the OP said. He never said the entire genre had to be catered to what he wants, just whether a game or maybe a few games would be sucessful if they forced grouping on its playerbase. You have to keep in mind forced is not the same thing as strongly encourage (aka, bonuses and benefits to loot, xp, whatever when in a group vs. solo ventures).
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.