If it's an mmo, then the players in that game need to focus on grouping. It's not a single player console game. I'm not sure why some gamers can't get that through their head.
If it's an mmo, then the players in that game need to focus on grouping. It's not a single player console game. I'm not sure why some gamers can't get that through their head.
Yes, it sounds like grouping with people like you who insist on telling people how to play would be such a pleasant experience. In the OP's game, I'd be forced to if I wanted to level up. Yay!
If it's an mmo, then the players in that game need to focus on grouping. It's not a single player console game. I'm not sure why some gamers can't get that through their head.
Your opinion is not the rule. Thankfully.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
If it's an mmo, then the players in that game need to focus on grouping. It's not a single player console game. I'm not sure why some gamers can't get that through their head.
Um what?
Whether the game is Darkfall or World of Warcraft or anything in between. They are a type of virtual world where players can play anyway they like. You want to solo... solo, you want to dou...duo, you want to do 6 man groups go ahead. If you just want to sit on a cliff to watch the sun rise or set go for it.
There is nothing in the words Massive Multyplayer Online Role Playing Game that says you must be grouped. In my opinion it means like I said above. A type of virtual world. A place to take your mind away from the real world for awhile. Like reading a book, but your making your own story. In my online story I have friends to go out and do missions with and I have my very own missions that I do alone.
So there is no one certain way to play an MMO. It is there to play how you wish.
Of course not. It's impossible to always have a group whenever you want and paying to just sit there waiting for people to log on sucks. Who would PAY to play such a thing?
"World of Warcraft is the perfect implementation of this genre." - Hilmar Petursson. CEO of CCP.
As much as I'm a proponent of mmos being more group oriented or having group content compared to the current trend which seems to be pushing more and more towards a solo oriented gaming experience I can't say I'm a fan of this idea.
I'm all for games giving bonuses to completing things in a group and having some content simply geared towards grouping but not cutting off leveling altogether unless you group with someone else.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
So basically you want a game just for yourself and developer be damned if he wants more money out of his labor. To make it just only for a marginal target audiance will be like shooting yourself in the leg. Good luck finding funding for this kind of project!
I myself do not want a "forced grouping" type game.
But the part of your post I highlighted brings to mind at least one game that proves it wrong: EVE. 400k+ subs for a niche game meant for a "marginal audience" speaks volumes.
So if Eve did it, everyone else should too?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Apparently it isn't ok because just about every mmo is soloable now. MMOs have become the anti-social genre of gaming.
Eh...the chat channels in most mmos seem more livlier now than ever. Granted it tends to be about everything besides the game unless it is being compared to WoW.
>_>
It's when you get to grouping that quite a few tend to go into the fetal position and begin sobbing like Chewbacca. So I don't know if anti social is the right term to use for it. A lot seem to certainly want to communicate with each other. Just not rely on others to accomplish anything gameplay oriented. Bad experiences maybe? Different type of gamers coming into the fold? Language barriers? Who knows the reason but it sure does seem to be the norm in most mmos anymore for a lot of players and even with the amount of soloability present in games there are those that want to push it even further in the solo oriented direction.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Yes and actually looking for a game like that, as long as it has some decent activity to do when alone like crafting, GM/community events maybe or, last but not least, decent lore and enough people interested in roleplaying. Ideally i would want all these activities of course
"Traditionally, massively multiplier online games have been about three basic gameplay pillars combat, exploration and character progression. In Alganon, in addition to these we've added the fourth pillar to the equation: Copy & Paste."
There is always two sides of the coin. Forced grouping helps progress the community more efficiently because your depenedent on other players. However, forced grouping in EQ can diminish gameplay because if you can't find a group the you can't progress. I highly believe that you have to have an mmo that gives incentives and bonsuses to group. But solo play should be an option if you can't find a group. mmorpgs is about community and adventure.
So basically you want a game just for yourself and developer be damned if he wants more money out of his labor. To make it just only for a marginal target audiance will be like shooting yourself in the leg. Good luck finding funding for this kind of project!
I myself do not want a "forced grouping" type game.
But the part of your post I highlighted brings to mind at least one game that proves it wrong: EVE. 400k+ subs for a niche game meant for a "marginal audience" speaks volumes.
So if Eve did it, everyone else should too?
Yes, they should. Why shouldn't someone who wants to make a game for a small minority of players do so? CCP made a game that, first and foremost, they would want to play. And they marketed it toward people who thought likewise. And they were successful.
The problem with most of the "indy" devs coming out now is they are getting trapped in the same cycle the big guys are in. They want to make "big money" so they try to market their game to everyone and their brother, and end up getting everyone BUT those who would have enjoyed it.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
No game 'forces' you to group. It's just either more efficient to do so, or not.
When a game logs you in and actually *forces* you to hang out with strangers you might not even like, then I will vote, and mostly likely vote 'no'.
Do you remember the original Dungeons and Dragons? Pretty much nothing to do but run dungeons, and lord help you if you tried to run one at your level solo. From what I hear they've changed that now.
So basically you want a game just for yourself and developer be damned if he wants more money out of his labor. To make it just only for a marginal target audiance will be like shooting yourself in the leg. Good luck finding funding for this kind of project!
I myself do not want a "forced grouping" type game.
But the part of your post I highlighted brings to mind at least one game that proves it wrong: EVE. 400k+ subs for a niche game meant for a "marginal audience" speaks volumes.
So if Eve did it, everyone else should too?
Yes, they should. Why shouldn't someone who wants to make a game for a small minority of players do so? CCP made a game that, first and foremost, they would want to play. And they marketed it toward people who thought likewise. And they were successful.
The problem with most of the "indy" devs coming out now is they are getting trapped in the same cycle the big guys are in. They want to make "big money" so they try to market their game to everyone and their brother, and end up getting everyone BUT those who would have enjoyed it.
That is what is so ironic about Eve's success. More than half of the player base stays in high sec and seldom if ever leaves. CCP itself has admitted that(much to their disgust... ^^). A companies initial focus doesn't always stay as it started.
Given what MMO's cost to produce, of course they will pitch the wide approach to the investors. Intoning the mystic phrase; "Its just like World of Warcraft!" causes investors eyes to light up with dollar signs, and then they throw truck loads of money at your project. Of course, given that MMO's like WoW are highly complex combinations of technical and personnel knowledge and experience, damn few can actually pull it off. With the results we've seen over the last few years.
One problem is that when you used a word like ‘forced’ players automatically think there will be a loss of freedom. We have all had grouping nightmares and those who are not sure about grouping think ‘forced, you have got to be joking’.
I do think the genre could do with a look at the solo/grouping balance, DAOC for me got it about right. If we had different servers with reduced xp on the grouping server then the uber fast levellers would stick with the ‘solo server’, maybe that’s a good thing!
I do believe the ethos that MMO’s are multiplayer so we should do as much in a multiplayer player mode as possible, not just levelling, crafting etc as well. These are not solo games, I get my solo gameplay feel from solo games, from my MMO I should be getting a multiplayer feel at least some of the time. And by that I don’t just mean loads of OOC chat that no one ever reads.
Apparently it isn't ok because just about every mmo is soloable now. MMOs have become the anti-social genre of gaming.
Eh...the chat channels in most mmos seem more livlier now than ever. Granted it tends to be about everything besides the game unless it is being compared to WoW. >_>
You mean this thing?
dfsghsagrk: $$$$ best RMT in europe, asia, NA, fast and safe, visit blabla.com $$$$ trollguru: omg this is so much better than WoW trollnewb: stfu i bet you haven't even played WoW past lvl 10 randomguy1: WTS longsword of supreme destiny +3 xXpWnz0RXx: lol noobs dfsghsagrk: $$$$ best RMT in europe, asia, NA, fast and safe, visit blabla.com $$$$ randomguy2: i agree trollguru this is so much better gurliegamer: ^_^ >>@ XD randomguy3: WoW has better graphics tbh dfsghsagrk: $$$$ best RMT in europe, asia, NA, fast and safe, visit blabla.com $$$$ randomguy4: LFG for GOM lvl15 xXpWnz0RXx: stfu noobs dfsghsagrk: $$$$ best RMT in europe, asia, NA, fast and safe, visit blabla.com $$$$
"Traditionally, massively multiplier online games have been about three basic gameplay pillars combat, exploration and character progression. In Alganon, in addition to these we've added the fourth pillar to the equation: Copy & Paste."
dfsghsagrk: $$$$ best RMT in europe, asia, NA, fast and safe, visit blabla.com $$$$
trollguru: omg this is so much better than WoW
trollnewb: stfu i bet you haven't even played WoW past lvl 10
randomguy1: WTS longsword of supreme destiny +3
xXpWnz0RXx: lol noobs
dfsghsagrk: $$$$ best RMT in europe, asia, NA, fast and safe, visit blabla.com $$$$
randomguy2: i agree trollguru this is so much better
gurliegamer: ^_^ >>@ XD
randomguy3: WoW has better graphics tbh
dfsghsagrk: $$$$ best RMT in europe, asia, NA, fast and safe, visit blabla.com $$$$
randomguy4: LFG for GOM lvl15
xXpWnz0RXx: stfu noobs
dfsghsagrk: $$$$ best RMT in europe, asia, NA, fast and safe, visit blabla.com $$$$
Yeah, that's pretty close. Just need to add a sprinkling of people arguing politics, morality issues, and who has the best "Your mama" jokes and it would be complete.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
dfsghsagrk: $$$$ best RMT in europe, asia, NA, fast and safe, visit blabla.com $$$$
trollguru: omg this is so much better than WoW
trollnewb: stfu i bet you haven't even played WoW past lvl 10
randomguy1: WTS longsword of supreme destiny +3
xXpWnz0RXx: lol noobs
dfsghsagrk: $$$$ best RMT in europe, asia, NA, fast and safe, visit blabla.com $$$$
randomguy2: i agree trollguru this is so much better
gurliegamer: ^_^ >>@ XD
randomguy3: WoW has better graphics tbh
dfsghsagrk: $$$$ best RMT in europe, asia, NA, fast and safe, visit blabla.com $$$$
randomguy4: LFG for GOM lvl15
xXpWnz0RXx: stfu noobs
dfsghsagrk: $$$$ best RMT in europe, asia, NA, fast and safe, visit blabla.com $$$$
Yeah, that's pretty close. Just need to add a sprinkling of people arguing politics, morality issues, and who has the best "Your mama" jokes and it would be complete.
Not to mention Chuck Norris jokes <Face palm>
At least in WoW its easy to block/report the spammers.
It all depends on how the game is set up. If you are expected to have to work together, then people will be working together, and finding people to work with will be easy. But since most MMO gameplay (at least the xp gaining portions) are solo activities, requiring grouping for that seems absurd. But grouping constantly would be commonplace in a game where you were also assumed to be doing that. So no, forcing gropuing is stupid, but designing a game around grouping would be just fine.
Important facts: 1. Free to Play games are poorly made. 2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals. 3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE. 4. Community is more important than you think.
Comments
If it's an mmo, then the players in that game need to focus on grouping. It's not a single player console game. I'm not sure why some gamers can't get that through their head.
Yes, it sounds like grouping with people like you who insist on telling people how to play would be such a pleasant experience. In the OP's game, I'd be forced to if I wanted to level up. Yay!
Your opinion is not the rule. Thankfully.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
I dont mind forced grouping to a point , I just want to be able to do something entertaining when I dont feel like grouping or cant find a group.
Um what?
Whether the game is Darkfall or World of Warcraft or anything in between. They are a type of virtual world where players can play anyway they like. You want to solo... solo, you want to dou...duo, you want to do 6 man groups go ahead. If you just want to sit on a cliff to watch the sun rise or set go for it.
There is nothing in the words Massive Multyplayer Online Role Playing Game that says you must be grouped. In my opinion it means like I said above. A type of virtual world. A place to take your mind away from the real world for awhile. Like reading a book, but your making your own story. In my online story I have friends to go out and do missions with and I have my very own missions that I do alone.
So there is no one certain way to play an MMO. It is there to play how you wish.
Why can't gamers get that through their heads?
Of course not. It's impossible to always have a group whenever you want and paying to just sit there waiting for people to log on sucks. Who would PAY to play such a thing?
"World of Warcraft is the perfect implementation of this genre." - Hilmar Petursson. CEO of CCP.
As much as I'm a proponent of mmos being more group oriented or having group content compared to the current trend which seems to be pushing more and more towards a solo oriented gaming experience I can't say I'm a fan of this idea.
I'm all for games giving bonuses to completing things in a group and having some content simply geared towards grouping but not cutting off leveling altogether unless you group with someone else.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Because this is the internet. People have to find something to argue about or debate endlessly.
So if Eve did it, everyone else should too?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Apparently it isn't ok because just about every mmo is soloable now. MMOs have become the anti-social genre of gaming.
Eh...the chat channels in most mmos seem more livlier now than ever. Granted it tends to be about everything besides the game unless it is being compared to WoW.
>_>
It's when you get to grouping that quite a few tend to go into the fetal position and begin sobbing like Chewbacca. So I don't know if anti social is the right term to use for it. A lot seem to certainly want to communicate with each other. Just not rely on others to accomplish anything gameplay oriented. Bad experiences maybe? Different type of gamers coming into the fold? Language barriers? Who knows the reason but it sure does seem to be the norm in most mmos anymore for a lot of players and even with the amount of soloability present in games there are those that want to push it even further in the solo oriented direction.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I don't have to group with someone when I'm PVPing with/against them.
I don't have to group with someone when I'm trading with them.
I don't have to group with someone when I'm talking to them.
I don't even have to group with someone to help them kill stuff.
Multiplayer doesn't require grouping.
Yes and actually looking for a game like that, as long as it has some decent activity to do when alone like crafting, GM/community events maybe or, last but not least, decent lore and enough people interested in roleplaying. Ideally i would want all these activities of course
"Traditionally, massively multiplier online games have been about three basic gameplay pillars combat, exploration and character progression. In Alganon, in addition to these we've added the fourth pillar to the equation: Copy & Paste."
It requires interacting with other players. Whether you call it grouping or not.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
There is always two sides of the coin. Forced grouping helps progress the community more efficiently because your depenedent on other players. However, forced grouping in EQ can diminish gameplay because if you can't find a group the you can't progress. I highly believe that you have to have an mmo that gives incentives and bonsuses to group. But solo play should be an option if you can't find a group. mmorpgs is about community and adventure.
Yes, they should. Why shouldn't someone who wants to make a game for a small minority of players do so? CCP made a game that, first and foremost, they would want to play. And they marketed it toward people who thought likewise. And they were successful.
The problem with most of the "indy" devs coming out now is they are getting trapped in the same cycle the big guys are in. They want to make "big money" so they try to market their game to everyone and their brother, and end up getting everyone BUT those who would have enjoyed it.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
A game which forces me to group would NEVER get my money!
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
Do you remember the original Dungeons and Dragons? Pretty much nothing to do but run dungeons, and lord help you if you tried to run one at your level solo. From what I hear they've changed that now.
That is what is so ironic about Eve's success. More than half of the player base stays in high sec and seldom if ever leaves. CCP itself has admitted that(much to their disgust... ^^). A companies initial focus doesn't always stay as it started.
Given what MMO's cost to produce, of course they will pitch the wide approach to the investors. Intoning the mystic phrase; "Its just like World of Warcraft!" causes investors eyes to light up with dollar signs, and then they throw truck loads of money at your project. Of course, given that MMO's like WoW are highly complex combinations of technical and personnel knowledge and experience, damn few can actually pull it off. With the results we've seen over the last few years.
One problem is that when you used a word like ‘forced’ players automatically think there will be a loss of freedom. We have all had grouping nightmares and those who are not sure about grouping think ‘forced, you have got to be joking’.
I do think the genre could do with a look at the solo/grouping balance, DAOC for me got it about right. If we had different servers with reduced xp on the grouping server then the uber fast levellers would stick with the ‘solo server’, maybe that’s a good thing!
I do believe the ethos that MMO’s are multiplayer so we should do as much in a multiplayer player mode as possible, not just levelling, crafting etc as well. These are not solo games, I get my solo gameplay feel from solo games, from my MMO I should be getting a multiplayer feel at least some of the time. And by that I don’t just mean loads of OOC chat that no one ever reads.
"Traditionally, massively multiplier online games have been about three basic gameplay pillars combat, exploration and character progression. In Alganon, in addition to these we've added the fourth pillar to the equation: Copy & Paste."
Yeah, that's pretty close. Just need to add a sprinkling of people arguing politics, morality issues, and who has the best "Your mama" jokes and it would be complete.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Not to mention Chuck Norris jokes <Face palm>
At least in WoW its easy to block/report the spammers.
It all depends on how the game is set up. If you are expected to have to work together, then people will be working together, and finding people to work with will be easy. But since most MMO gameplay (at least the xp gaining portions) are solo activities, requiring grouping for that seems absurd. But grouping constantly would be commonplace in a game where you were also assumed to be doing that. So no, forcing gropuing is stupid, but designing a game around grouping would be just fine.
Important facts:
1. Free to Play games are poorly made.
2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals.
3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE.
4. Community is more important than you think.