I beta tested the game and then played for 2 months after it came out. just started again with the free trial. going to hit up 20 and then go from there and see what i think. so far not too shabby. i did the combat since it is a change from the norm. every MMO is grindy, no matter what...they all have some type of grind. people say DF does not but it -really- does. as i said every MMO has grind.
What it really boils down to is that these 'elitest' don't like a game where they can fall in to the 5% of the games population that have the capability(friends to carry thier ass) and time to get the best gear in the game. They want it to be impossible for the larger part of the population of the video game to be similarly equiped as them. SO in the end they destroy people because they have better gear not because they are a more skillful player.
For a long time getting the top tier gear in WoW was impossible for most of the player base. WoW made it easier with a small time invesment( one or two weekends) for a player to get in end game gear. fairly laughable that yesterdays 'skilled' players now suck so bad that a lot of them have left the game simply because a larger portion of the player base is equally geared.
It is good that some games have really hard raiding while others have easier. You like hard raiding and want lots of it? Play EQ2.
But what Wow did sucked anyway, because they changed the game when it was launched, it now is for a different player base than it had at launch. Of course people gets upset by that, if you love a game and the devs take everything you like about it away you would be upset too. Blizzard should have made it easy from the start or left it hard.
As for AoC the game isn't really focused on raiding and i doubt it ever will. So if you are a huge raid fan you should play something else.
What it really boils down to is that these 'elitest' don't like a game where they can fall in to the 5% of the games population that have the capability(friends to carry thier ass) and time to get the best gear in the game. They want it to be impossible for the larger part of the population of the video game to be similarly equiped as them. SO in the end they destroy people because they have better gear not because they are a more skillful player.
For a long time getting the top tier gear in WoW was impossible for most of the player base. WoW made it easier with a small time invesment( one or two weekends) for a player to get in end game gear. fairly laughable that yesterdays 'skilled' players now suck so bad that a lot of them have left the game simply because a larger portion of the player base is equally geared.
It is good that some games have really hard raiding while others have easier. You like hard raiding and want lots of it? Play EQ2.
But what Wow did sucked anyway, because they changed the game when it was launched, it now is for a different player base than it had at launch. Of course people gets upset by that, if you love a game and the devs take everything you like about it away you would be upset too. Blizzard should have made it easy from the start or left it hard.
As for AoC the game isn't really focused on raiding and i doubt it ever will. So if you are a huge raid fan you should play something else.
have you ever even played this game? PLENTY of raiding
What it really boils down to is that these 'elitest' don't like a game where they can fall in to the 5% of the games population that have the capability(friends to carry thier ass) and time to get the best gear in the game. They want it to be impossible for the larger part of the population of the video game to be similarly equiped as them. SO in the end they destroy people because they have better gear not because they are a more skillful player.
For a long time getting the top tier gear in WoW was impossible for most of the player base. WoW made it easier with a small time invesment( one or two weekends) for a player to get in end game gear. fairly laughable that yesterdays 'skilled' players now suck so bad that a lot of them have left the game simply because a larger portion of the player base is equally geared.
It is good that some games have really hard raiding while others have easier. You like hard raiding and want lots of it? Play EQ2.
But what Wow did sucked anyway, because they changed the game when it was launched, it now is for a different player base than it had at launch. Of course people gets upset by that, if you love a game and the devs take everything you like about it away you would be upset too. Blizzard should have made it easy from the start or left it hard.
As for AoC the game isn't really focused on raiding and i doubt it ever will. So if you are a huge raid fan you should play something else.
is EQ2 cuz I have been curious but dont know anyone who plays it. wonderinf if i should get into it cuz isnt it, besides the difficulty, kinda like WoW? if so iw ould just stay with WoW since i already am at 80.
I'm wondering why only 2 bosses in T 3 so far that is on average 1 boss per year of development for the expansion (EDIT: Ao is mostely a PvE game and so far one raid tier has been added per year so my thesis is only 2 bosses at release combined with a slow development cycle contradicts that)...another 3-4 bosses is not that impressive post release as that is half an instance in any competing MMO. Oh well player numbers on Xfire are reflecting what I'm saying.
Grinds are good there is a big diffrence between fun grinds (raids, PvP stuff where players compete, very involved quests, well done group instances, etc) and a myriad of uninvolved faction/mining for PvP grinds.
Age of Conan original game has 21 Raid Bosses in total.
More than 1 raid tier has been added in a year. Your facts are wrong and I am arguing them with the true facts from the game itself.
When people talk about orginal games Raids grind is not the first word out typically. I do not how you can form an opinion when you have not raided in Conan... ever.
T3 has nine.
To help you out I will list them:
The Dragon's Lair:
Vistrix
Kyllikki's Crypt:
Champion of the Honorguard
Kyllikki
Yahkmar's Cave
Yahkmar
Who knows when this was released as T1 was bugged.
Black Ring Citadel:
Excorant the Gargoyle Master
Yaremka the Soul Eater
Sabazios the Insane
Ahazu-Zagum
Incubus-Succubus
Seruah
Chatha the Commander of Demons
Athyr-Bast the Shadow Master
Leviathus
Thoth-Amon's :
Kharon
Daimone
Ixion
Hathor-Ka
Arbanus
Master Gyas
Favoured of Louhi
Keeper of Artifacts
Thoth-Amon
As for Rise of the Godslayer
2 new Raid Boss' for T4 have been added and I believe no one has downed Thoth Amon yet either..
Plus 6 man dungeons for ROTGS
Warmonk Monastery
Reliquary of Flame, Vortex of the Storm, Coppice of the Heart
Mines of Chosain
Abyss of Kun Whu, The Jade Dugout, Den of the Crowmen
Pillars of Heaven
Palace of Yun Rau
Kang Pagoda
The Crater
The Cavern of Malice, The Enigmata of Yag, The Celestial Necropolis
The Jade Citadel
First of all 21 raid bosses total is very low compared to any other MMO ever created that has raiding as a focus. It is much like how AoC has farming rocks and trees as the apex of PvP compared to any other game with pvp. When I state low I mean by 10-30 times at least. 2 bosses for an expansion is meh. Thanks for prooving my point but I played 2 years of WoW and EQ1-2. I would bet DDO and LOTRO and ffxi have more than 21 by 2 years by many times as well but the MMO's I played and listed have 100s by the 2 year mark. seems low for pve focus.
Second, yeah about 1 tier a year....actually less but. Release T1 bugged so no T2.......T2 about a year later completed with wing 3 and almost 9 month later after Pugs are clearing T2, T3 is released. and the expansion comes out uncompleted with 2 bosses? to make matters worse AoC has been being developed for 6+ years now.
It isn't a big deal but xfire numbers are down again which means less development money, not to mention it has been two years and all that has been created is 21 raid bosses which is a small fraction of as I said any other MMO.
Here's an idea: why don't you come back after you actually play the game, instead of trying to base your "facts" on x-fire numbers. Yes, in fact, why don''t you tell us all the last time you actually played? Might be good for a laugh. And, to prove your assertions, please also come back with a current list of ALL raid bosses that were verifiably in every other raiding focused game at the two year mark so we can compare this data also. Some of us are tired of watching you pull numbers out of your ass to try to prove your "points" in your neverending crusade against AoC.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
First of all 21 raid bosses total is very low compared to any other MMO ever created that has raiding as a focus. It is much like how AoC has farming rocks and trees as the apex of PvP compared to any other game with pvp. When I state low I mean by 10-30 times at least. 2 bosses for an expansion is meh. Thanks for prooving my point but I played 2 years of WoW and EQ1-2. I would bet DDO and LOTRO and ffxi have more than 21 by 2 years by many times as well but the MMO's I played and listed have 100s by the 2 year mark. seems low for pve focus.
Second, yeah about 1 tier a year....actually less but. Release T1 bugged so no T2.......T2 about a year later completed with wing 3 and almost 9 month later after Pugs are clearing T2, T3 is released. and the expansion comes out uncompleted with 2 bosses? to make matters worse AoC has been being developed for 6+ years now.
It isn't a big deal but xfire numbers are down again which means less development money, not to mention it has been two years and all that has been created is 21 raid bosses which is a small fraction of as I said any other MMO.
It's clear that you haven't played other MMO's like LotrO or Aion and certainly not to the endgame, just as you haven't played AoC for years if at all, else you'd know how ridiculous your statements are: when you make statements as all other MMO's having 10-30 times as many raid bosses as AoC it simply becomes laughable and only proves how farfetched and unfounded your arguments are and how far you're willing to go in your neverending quest to discredit AoC and Funcom.
Tell you what: why don't you come up with a list of the raid bosses in LotrO and Aion, to 'prove' your point of 10-30 times - so, that'd mean 200-600 raid bosses, right? - and we'll discuss it further. My guess is that LotrO certainly doesn't have many times the number of AoC raid bosses or raid dungeons - maybe even roughly the same number to double at the most? - and Aion has even less raid bosses than AoC.
Your other arguments are irrelevant to this thread and nothing more than your usual anti-AoC/FC rant.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I have tried out the expansion and have to say I am not a fan.
It's all about doing repeatable quests for tokens, tokens that you need a extraordinary amount of weather is be for faction or for loot, the loot for the most part is junk and not worth the effort. The whole thing quickly becomes more boring than watching paint dry.
All in all I would say the expansion is not worth the money, in fact it should have been free given it's lack of any real content. I can see in the next month or so, players going back to the old game abandoning the expansion completely.
Let's go back to the OP's point instead of wittering on about raid bosses 'n' stuff.
Fact is, the OP makes a very good point. RotG has introduced nothing but an interminable grind to the game, surpassing even LotRO's weapon advancement grind by a country mile. If CM thinks for one minute that this change of direction will keep players in the long run he's sadly mistaken.
The OP also makes the valid point that the grind largely offers up junk rewards for your weeks of grinding, this is very true, barrowloads of tokens for junk gear, not only rubbish stat-wise but downright ugly michelin man type gear, again I wonder how CM could imagine AoC's playerbase would appreciate and strive for this rubbish.
It is now becoming apparent (I hope) that my assertions of a year ago or more are coming to pass. Gaute's original vision for AoC was the real AoC, still is if you dig deep enough at the lower levels, but this abomination created by CM copied from the grindy bits of the world's great grindfests such as LotRO, EQII et all does NOT make for a good MMO experience.
Let's go back to the OP's point instead of wittering on about raid bosses 'n' stuff.
Fact is, the OP makes a very good point. RotG has introduced nothing but an interminable grind to the game, surpassing even LotRO's weapon advancement grind by a country mile. If CM thinks for one minute that this change of direction will keep players in the long run he's sadly mistaken.
The OP also makes the valid point that the grind largely offers up junk rewards for your weeks of grinding, this is very true, barrowloads of tokens for junk gear, not only rubbish stat-wise but downright ugly michelin man type gear, again I wonder how CM could imagine AoC's playerbase would appreciate and strive for this rubbish.
It is now becoming apparent (I hope) that my assertions of a year ago or more are coming to pass. Gaute's original vision for AoC was the real AoC, still is if you dig deep enough at the lower levels, but this abomination created by CM copied from the grindy bits of the world's great grindfests such as LotRO, EQII et all does NOT make for a good MMO experience.
Discuss
Of course there will be differences between Gaute's course and Morrison's course, they're two different people so I expect them to focus on different things too. I don't know Gaute that well, but he really messed up with the AoC launch. Maybe it was a strategic necessary decision to launch at that time, but it was a bad decision.
Let's face it, the RotGS release is a leagues of improvement compared to the original launch 2 years ago. Besides that, there have been made a lot of changes and improvements in the last 2 years, content additions, the ever ongoing class balancing that show that all classes get their spotlight to be distinctive.
And about the RotGS grind: of course, it's what being discussed in this thread, but if you think that the grind is all there is to Khitai then you're doing something seriously wrong. I think the RotGS expansion was a master stroke: you see the devs are getting better and better with the engine, the areas are simply enormous and nonlinear, you can really go out exploring, there are some really astonishing places to see and wander through, and I like the new ideas and experimentations they've implemented in the dungeons, it adds variety and focus and I expect/hope some of these ideas to see return in The Secret World. And the lateral leveling, not raising the level cap, is something other MMO's could take a lesson from: you can advance without earlier end level content having become obsolete.
Besides, they've mentioned on several occasions that they deliberately increased the difficulty to obtain the end goals of the faction grinding, to monitor and see what needed tweaking and being made easier, a process I find more sensible than a Bori where people were able to reach PvP level 10 in a blink with little work. Try to reverse that unwanted effect, good luck.
So, is it different from Gaute's vision, AoC as it is now? Perhaps, but he messed up, and Funcom and AoC lost a lot of credibility as a result of it, and that's why he had to leave. If he hadn't messed up, he could have stayed and worked further on his vision as he saw for AoC.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Yes, Khitain has grinding when you're focused on getting the faction gear. But the latest patch should alleviate that "burden" with the increased quest rewards (faction standing, tokens, insignias)
And yes, when you do all the other stuff that can be done in Khitai you'll have more fun and less trouble with the faction grind.
No, you don't have to be a no-lifer to enjoy Khitai content, far from.
If you want to experience grind, try L40-50 in Aion or gear grind in WoW for reference or some other games, to me those were more boring.
It didnt alleviate it because they didnt add any content. Just upped the rewards. Youre still doing the same thing over and over. People dont have a problem with how long it takes to get somewhere as long as the journey is fun. DOing one quest over and over isnt.
You don't HAVE to grind the repeatables... Almost all quests give tokens you can hand in for faction standing and they can drop off mobs. With normal/grindless play (questing and dungeonrunning) you have no problem amassing tokens for standing, and you will have no problem in getting to highest standing in time. The key words being: In time.
Its like you dont even play the game. What you says is impossible,
Zul'Gurub - 11 bosses with some random bosses for 4 group.
Molten Core - 10 bosses
Black wing lair - 8 bosses
Naxxramas - 21 bosses as many as all of AoC.
Lord Kazzak - world
Gruul's lair - 2 bosses
Black wing temple - 15 bosses.
EDIT: CONCLUSION - EQ had 3 times + the raids and they where spread out, I didn't include many of the epic quest or attunement quest raid bosses aside from the ragefire a mob that healers(clerics) spent weeks on a list to camp for an entire week.
WoW had 4 times + the raid content of AAs claim so yeah higher quality and quantity by the two year mark. If you played another raid game you would know the challenge of the bosses + getting to them + amount means many time more raiding content compared to AoC's 2 expansion bosses.
First off you are comarping it WoW IIRC BC's devolopment budget was close to 100 million i doubt godslayer was more than couple million. So of course WoW Xpac will have way more content than any other MMO out there...
First off you are comarping it WoW IIRC BC's devolopment budget was close to 100 million i doubt godslayer was more than couple million. So of course WoW Xpac will have way more content than any other MMO out there...
I don't really see what that matters because Wows endgame is all about raiding. AoCs is a lot about Sieging and your guildcity, not to mention the PvP (wows battlegrounds is not really endgame content).
Those games have very different endgames, you can't siege in Wow but there are more raids. So the comparison really sucks, AoC just isn't so focused on raiding. And that is fine, if all MMO had exactly the same endgame things would be very boring.
I rather see Funcom revamp the guildcity than add loads of raidbosses to the game myself.
Everything is a grind. Hitting the snooze button exactly 5 times before I actually get up is like a quest. The trek to work is a boring grind. Work itself is a minute by minute grind of ..well...work...and clockwatching. Life is a f@cking grind. As long as you have no imagination and continue to percieve it as such. The same goes for anything you do..including console and MMO games. Why this is even an issue is beyond me. If a game doesnt capture your imagination enough to grind-blind you...then play another game...and another...and another...hopefully you'll find one that seems fun . I personally am having a blast with AoC and the expansion..the new lands are gorgeous and the new content is..um..new. Since I like the setting and gameplay..I continue to play. If I didn't then...I wouldn't stay in game and bitch like a schoolgirl. I'd go play FE for a while...or any other mmo I find amusing.
Everything is a grind. Hitting the snooze button exactly 5 times before I actually get up is like a quest. The trek to work is a boring grind. Work itself is a minute by minute grind of ..well...work...and clockwatching. Life is a f@cking grind. As long as you have no imagination and continue to percieve it as such. The same goes for anything you do..including console and MMO games. Why this is even an issue is beyond me. If a game doesnt capture your imagination enough to grind-blind you...then play another game...and another...and another...hopefully you'll find one that seems fun . I personally am having a blast with AoC and the expansion..the new lands are gorgeous and the new content is..um..new. Since I like the setting and gameplay..I continue to play. If I didn't then...I wouldn't stay in game and bitch like a schoolgirl. I'd go play FE for a while...or any other mmo I find amusing.
First off you are comarping it WoW IIRC BC's devolopment budget was close to 100 million i doubt godslayer was more than couple million. So of course WoW Xpac will have way more content than any other MMO out there...
I don't really see what that matters because Wows endgame is all about raiding. AoCs is a lot about Sieging and your guildcity, not to mention the PvP (wows battlegrounds is not really endgame content).
Those games have very different endgames, you can't siege in Wow but there are more raids. So the comparison really sucks, AoC just isn't so focused on raiding. And that is fine, if all MMO had exactly the same endgame things would be very boring.
I rather see Funcom revamp the guildcity than add loads of raidbosses to the game myself.
No, WoW by the two year point was also about PvP arenas. It had some battle grounds, about 5 all used compared to AoC's mostely using 1. However, WoWs PvP Arenas are hard to say they are grindy. 10 games a week so 30 minutes and if your good you move up if your bad you move down...rating nets the best PvP gear. AoC has sieging and guild city but the best PvP/hour for gear is mining for hours on end in shrines of Bori which may yield points for not killing other players at all and no skills required compared to WoW's arena.
Your point about sieging is strange as it took AoC two years to get it working so I am skeptical that it is a large part of AoC or sieging would have been fixed faster. However Sieging atm is dominated by Aion...Aion is where the players are who get down with sieging so once again AoC falls short if that is their niche.
No idea why they would have different budgets, I guess we will have to wait and see how much Funcom writes off as a loss at the end of their year.
EDIT: guildcities are pretty generic, so that sounds pretty casual and tradeskill based...if you enjoy tradeskills at end game...pretty much any other MMO does better in that aspect as well.
Yes, Khitain has grinding when you're focused on getting the faction gear. But the latest patch should alleviate that "burden" with the increased quest rewards (faction standing, tokens, insignias)
And yes, when you do all the other stuff that can be done in Khitai you'll have more fun and less trouble with the faction grind.
No, you don't have to be a no-lifer to enjoy Khitai content, far from.
If you want to experience grind, try L40-50 in Aion or gear grind in WoW for reference or some other games, to me those were more boring.
It didnt alleviate it because they didnt add any content. Just upped the rewards. Youre still doing the same thing over and over. People dont have a problem with how long it takes to get somewhere as long as the journey is fun. DOing one quest over and over isnt.
You don't HAVE to grind the repeatables... Almost all quests give tokens you can hand in for faction standing and they can drop off mobs. With normal/grindless play (questing and dungeonrunning) you have no problem amassing tokens for standing, and you will have no problem in getting to highest standing in time. The key words being: In time.
Its like you dont even play the game. What you says is impossible,
I have played approx 10 hr/week the last month and I am standing 1 with all my factions and have 276 tokens in my bag. When I play I raid with guild or figure out new dungeons. I am definately a casual player, yet I am still able to pull pretty good standing and have some new nice pieces of gear to show for it.
I know i can spent 14-16 hours a day for a few weeks getting max standing by endless grinding, but that's just not my playstyle.
Everything is a grind. Hitting the snooze button exactly 5 times before I actually get up is like a quest. The trek to work is a boring grind. Work itself is a minute by minute grind of ..well...work...and clockwatching. Life is a f@cking grind. As long as you have no imagination and continue to percieve it as such. The same goes for anything you do..including console and MMO games. Why this is even an issue is beyond me. If a game doesnt capture your imagination enough to grind-blind you...then play another game...and another...and another...hopefully you'll find one that seems fun . I personally am having a blast with AoC and the expansion..the new lands are gorgeous and the new content is..um..new. Since I like the setting and gameplay..I continue to play. If I didn't then...I wouldn't stay in game and bitch like a schoolgirl. I'd go play FE for a while...or any other mmo I find amusing.
You don't have to pay for life's grind, in fact in most cases you get paid for it, and I would think that if you had the choice to do something else such as wake up on your yaught and count you're money, you may jump at the chance.
All in all AOC is one of the better on line games and is well worth bitching like a schoolgirl over, if it means keeping the game popular and alive.
Yes, Khitain has grinding when you're focused on getting the faction gear. But the latest patch should alleviate that "burden" with the increased quest rewards (faction standing, tokens, insignias)
And yes, when you do all the other stuff that can be done in Khitai you'll have more fun and less trouble with the faction grind.
No, you don't have to be a no-lifer to enjoy Khitai content, far from.
If you want to experience grind, try L40-50 in Aion or gear grind in WoW for reference or some other games, to me those were more boring.
It didnt alleviate it because they didnt add any content. Just upped the rewards. Youre still doing the same thing over and over. People dont have a problem with how long it takes to get somewhere as long as the journey is fun. DOing one quest over and over isnt.
You don't HAVE to grind the repeatables... Almost all quests give tokens you can hand in for faction standing and they can drop off mobs. With normal/grindless play (questing and dungeonrunning) you have no problem amassing tokens for standing, and you will have no problem in getting to highest standing in time. The key words being: In time.
Its like you dont even play the game. What you says is impossible,
I have played approx 10 hr/week the last month and I am standing 1 with all my factions and have 276 tokens in my bag. When I play I raid with guild or figure out new dungeons. I am definately a casual player, yet I am still able to pull pretty good standing and have some new nice pieces of gear to show for it.
I know i can spent 14-16 hours a day for a few weeks getting max standing by endless grinding, but that's just not my playstyle.
But thats not pretty good standing. Rank 1 is relatively easy. And 276 tokens gets you only 50k standing, which is 1/3 what you need to get rank 2.
Yes, Khitain has grinding when you're focused on getting the faction gear. But the latest patch should alleviate that "burden" with the increased quest rewards (faction standing, tokens, insignias)
And yes, when you do all the other stuff that can be done in Khitai you'll have more fun and less trouble with the faction grind.
No, you don't have to be a no-lifer to enjoy Khitai content, far from.
If you want to experience grind, try L40-50 in Aion or gear grind in WoW for reference or some other games, to me those were more boring.
It didnt alleviate it because they didnt add any content. Just upped the rewards. Youre still doing the same thing over and over. People dont have a problem with how long it takes to get somewhere as long as the journey is fun. DOing one quest over and over isnt.
You don't HAVE to grind the repeatables... Almost all quests give tokens you can hand in for faction standing and they can drop off mobs. With normal/grindless play (questing and dungeonrunning) you have no problem amassing tokens for standing, and you will have no problem in getting to highest standing in time. The key words being: In time.
Its like you dont even play the game. What you says is impossible,
I have played approx 10 hr/week the last month and I am standing 1 with all my factions and have 276 tokens in my bag. When I play I raid with guild or figure out new dungeons. I am definately a casual player, yet I am still able to pull pretty good standing and have some new nice pieces of gear to show for it.
I know i can spent 14-16 hours a day for a few weeks getting max standing by endless grinding, but that's just not my playstyle.
But thats not pretty good standing. Rank 1 is relatively easy. And 276 tokens gets you only 50k standing, which is 1/3 what you need to get rank 2.
So..? Over 300k total standing in a couple weeks of very casual play isn't "slow grind" to me. I should be able to get to rank 4 with one faction in 2-3 months, which suits me fine as my main target for playing is having fun, not being rank 4 with all factions. Guess I just have a tad more patience...
So..? Over 300k total standing in a couple weeks of very casual play isn't "slow grind" to me. I should be able to get to rank 4 with one faction in 2-3 months, which suits me fine as my main target for playing is having fun, not being rank 4 with all factions. Guess I just have a tad more patience...
Thats not what makes it a grind. Its the lack of content to get that standing. To get rank 2 you have to run the same quests over and over, or the same dungeons over and over. Or kill enemy faction, over and over. Are you really having fun killing ten rats a thousand times to get enough tokens?
Originally posted by mCalvert Originally posted by Aercus
So..? Over 300k total standing in a couple weeks of very casual play isn't "slow grind" to me. I should be able to get to rank 4 with one faction in 2-3 months, which suits me fine as my main target for playing is having fun, not being rank 4 with all factions. Guess I just have a tad more patience... Thats not what makes it a grind. Its the lack of content to get that standing. To get rank 2 you have to run the same quests over and over, or the same dungeons over and over. Or kill enemy faction, over and over. Are you really having fun killing ten rats a thousand times to get enough tokens? Sounds about the same as any mmo Ive ever played.
So..? Over 300k total standing in a couple weeks of very casual play isn't "slow grind" to me. I should be able to get to rank 4 with one faction in 2-3 months, which suits me fine as my main target for playing is having fun, not being rank 4 with all factions. Guess I just have a tad more patience...
Thats not what makes it a grind. Its the lack of content to get that standing. To get rank 2 you have to run the same quests over and over, or the same dungeons over and over. Or kill enemy faction, over and over. Are you really having fun killing ten rats a thousand times to get enough tokens?
Yes that different from farming ICC for last 3 months ..
Anyway based on funcon Financial reports one of posters in another forum broke it down to 70-100k subscribers for AoC in Q1 2010 and that number increased to 200-250k post expansion.
So..? Over 300k total standing in a couple weeks of very casual play isn't "slow grind" to me. I should be able to get to rank 4 with one faction in 2-3 months, which suits me fine as my main target for playing is having fun, not being rank 4 with all factions. Guess I just have a tad more patience...
Thats not what makes it a grind. Its the lack of content to get that standing. To get rank 2 you have to run the same quests over and over, or the same dungeons over and over. Or kill enemy faction, over and over. Are you really having fun killing ten rats a thousand times to get enough tokens?
I don't do repeatables and the only grinding I've done was about 30 minutes which gave a a couple dozen tokens and about 10k standing (bumped me from 45 to 55k). The rest comes from running dungeons and non-repeatable quests. I am a big fan of grouping and I usually spend my time grouped up and figuring out dungeons.
So..? Over 300k total standing in a couple weeks of very casual play isn't "slow grind" to me. I should be able to get to rank 4 with one faction in 2-3 months, which suits me fine as my main target for playing is having fun, not being rank 4 with all factions. Guess I just have a tad more patience...
Thats not what makes it a grind. Its the lack of content to get that standing. To get rank 2 you have to run the same quests over and over, or the same dungeons over and over. Or kill enemy faction, over and over. Are you really having fun killing ten rats a thousand times to get enough tokens?
I don't do repeatables and the only grinding I've done was about 30 minutes which gave a a couple dozen tokens and about 10k standing (bumped me from 45 to 55k). The rest comes from running dungeons and non-repeatable quests. I am a big fan of grouping and I usually spend my time grouped up and figuring out dungeons.
Which is unrealistic given that 80% of the game is designed to be run solo. I dont see why you have to keep defending bad game design. The proof is in the pudding. AOC overall is not fun, and people quitting is proof. Once I get a get through the new content, I will quit as well and go back to a sandbox game.
Comments
I beta tested the game and then played for 2 months after it came out. just started again with the free trial. going to hit up 20 and then go from there and see what i think. so far not too shabby. i did the combat since it is a change from the norm. every MMO is grindy, no matter what...they all have some type of grind. people say DF does not but it -really- does. as i said every MMO has grind.
It is good that some games have really hard raiding while others have easier. You like hard raiding and want lots of it? Play EQ2.
But what Wow did sucked anyway, because they changed the game when it was launched, it now is for a different player base than it had at launch. Of course people gets upset by that, if you love a game and the devs take everything you like about it away you would be upset too. Blizzard should have made it easy from the start or left it hard.
As for AoC the game isn't really focused on raiding and i doubt it ever will. So if you are a huge raid fan you should play something else.
have you ever even played this game? PLENTY of raiding
is EQ2 cuz I have been curious but dont know anyone who plays it. wonderinf if i should get into it cuz isnt it, besides the difficulty, kinda like WoW? if so iw ould just stay with WoW since i already am at 80.
Here's an idea: why don't you come back after you actually play the game, instead of trying to base your "facts" on x-fire numbers. Yes, in fact, why don''t you tell us all the last time you actually played? Might be good for a laugh. And, to prove your assertions, please also come back with a current list of ALL raid bosses that were verifiably in every other raiding focused game at the two year mark so we can compare this data also. Some of us are tired of watching you pull numbers out of your ass to try to prove your "points" in your neverending crusade against AoC.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
It's clear that you haven't played other MMO's like LotrO or Aion and certainly not to the endgame, just as you haven't played AoC for years if at all, else you'd know how ridiculous your statements are: when you make statements as all other MMO's having 10-30 times as many raid bosses as AoC it simply becomes laughable and only proves how farfetched and unfounded your arguments are and how far you're willing to go in your neverending quest to discredit AoC and Funcom.
Tell you what: why don't you come up with a list of the raid bosses in LotrO and Aion, to 'prove' your point of 10-30 times - so, that'd mean 200-600 raid bosses, right? - and we'll discuss it further. My guess is that LotrO certainly doesn't have many times the number of AoC raid bosses or raid dungeons - maybe even roughly the same number to double at the most? - and Aion has even less raid bosses than AoC.
Your other arguments are irrelevant to this thread and nothing more than your usual anti-AoC/FC rant.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Let's go back to the OP's point instead of wittering on about raid bosses 'n' stuff.
Fact is, the OP makes a very good point. RotG has introduced nothing but an interminable grind to the game, surpassing even LotRO's weapon advancement grind by a country mile. If CM thinks for one minute that this change of direction will keep players in the long run he's sadly mistaken.
The OP also makes the valid point that the grind largely offers up junk rewards for your weeks of grinding, this is very true, barrowloads of tokens for junk gear, not only rubbish stat-wise but downright ugly michelin man type gear, again I wonder how CM could imagine AoC's playerbase would appreciate and strive for this rubbish.
It is now becoming apparent (I hope) that my assertions of a year ago or more are coming to pass. Gaute's original vision for AoC was the real AoC, still is if you dig deep enough at the lower levels, but this abomination created by CM copied from the grindy bits of the world's great grindfests such as LotRO, EQII et all does NOT make for a good MMO experience.
Discuss
Of course there will be differences between Gaute's course and Morrison's course, they're two different people so I expect them to focus on different things too. I don't know Gaute that well, but he really messed up with the AoC launch. Maybe it was a strategic necessary decision to launch at that time, but it was a bad decision.
Let's face it, the RotGS release is a leagues of improvement compared to the original launch 2 years ago. Besides that, there have been made a lot of changes and improvements in the last 2 years, content additions, the ever ongoing class balancing that show that all classes get their spotlight to be distinctive.
And about the RotGS grind: of course, it's what being discussed in this thread, but if you think that the grind is all there is to Khitai then you're doing something seriously wrong. I think the RotGS expansion was a master stroke: you see the devs are getting better and better with the engine, the areas are simply enormous and nonlinear, you can really go out exploring, there are some really astonishing places to see and wander through, and I like the new ideas and experimentations they've implemented in the dungeons, it adds variety and focus and I expect/hope some of these ideas to see return in The Secret World. And the lateral leveling, not raising the level cap, is something other MMO's could take a lesson from: you can advance without earlier end level content having become obsolete.
Besides, they've mentioned on several occasions that they deliberately increased the difficulty to obtain the end goals of the faction grinding, to monitor and see what needed tweaking and being made easier, a process I find more sensible than a Bori where people were able to reach PvP level 10 in a blink with little work. Try to reverse that unwanted effect, good luck.
So, is it different from Gaute's vision, AoC as it is now? Perhaps, but he messed up, and Funcom and AoC lost a lot of credibility as a result of it, and that's why he had to leave. If he hadn't messed up, he could have stayed and worked further on his vision as he saw for AoC.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Its like you dont even play the game. What you says is impossible,
First off you are comarping it WoW IIRC BC's devolopment budget was close to 100 million i doubt godslayer was more than couple million. So of course WoW Xpac will have way more content than any other MMO out there...
I don't really see what that matters because Wows endgame is all about raiding. AoCs is a lot about Sieging and your guildcity, not to mention the PvP (wows battlegrounds is not really endgame content).
Those games have very different endgames, you can't siege in Wow but there are more raids. So the comparison really sucks, AoC just isn't so focused on raiding. And that is fine, if all MMO had exactly the same endgame things would be very boring.
I rather see Funcom revamp the guildcity than add loads of raidbosses to the game myself.
Everything is a grind. Hitting the snooze button exactly 5 times before I actually get up is like a quest. The trek to work is a boring grind. Work itself is a minute by minute grind of ..well...work...and clockwatching. Life is a f@cking grind. As long as you have no imagination and continue to percieve it as such. The same goes for anything you do..including console and MMO games. Why this is even an issue is beyond me. If a game doesnt capture your imagination enough to grind-blind you...then play another game...and another...and another...hopefully you'll find one that seems fun . I personally am having a blast with AoC and the expansion..the new lands are gorgeous and the new content is..um..new. Since I like the setting and gameplay..I continue to play. If I didn't then...I wouldn't stay in game and bitch like a schoolgirl. I'd go play FE for a while...or any other mmo I find amusing.
Well said Barcrow.
10/10 points
No, WoW by the two year point was also about PvP arenas. It had some battle grounds, about 5 all used compared to AoC's mostely using 1. However, WoWs PvP Arenas are hard to say they are grindy. 10 games a week so 30 minutes and if your good you move up if your bad you move down...rating nets the best PvP gear. AoC has sieging and guild city but the best PvP/hour for gear is mining for hours on end in shrines of Bori which may yield points for not killing other players at all and no skills required compared to WoW's arena.
Your point about sieging is strange as it took AoC two years to get it working so I am skeptical that it is a large part of AoC or sieging would have been fixed faster. However Sieging atm is dominated by Aion...Aion is where the players are who get down with sieging so once again AoC falls short if that is their niche.
No idea why they would have different budgets, I guess we will have to wait and see how much Funcom writes off as a loss at the end of their year.
EDIT: guildcities are pretty generic, so that sounds pretty casual and tradeskill based...if you enjoy tradeskills at end game...pretty much any other MMO does better in that aspect as well.
Funcom has reviewed all of its assets relevant for
impairment testing. This process has led to
recognition of an impairment loss of around
3,1 MUSD for Age of Conan due to a decrease in
numbers of subscribers for the game. Funcom Q4 10 report.
http://forums.ageofconan.com/showpost.php?p=2926123&postcount=7 500 mains/alts on Tyranny in past 30 days - instead of merge servers let's open a new PvP server, again! http://forums-eu.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?t=106427
I have played approx 10 hr/week the last month and I am standing 1 with all my factions and have 276 tokens in my bag. When I play I raid with guild or figure out new dungeons. I am definately a casual player, yet I am still able to pull pretty good standing and have some new nice pieces of gear to show for it.
I know i can spent 14-16 hours a day for a few weeks getting max standing by endless grinding, but that's just not my playstyle.
You don't have to pay for life's grind, in fact in most cases you get paid for it, and I would think that if you had the choice to do something else such as wake up on your yaught and count you're money, you may jump at the chance.
All in all AOC is one of the better on line games and is well worth bitching like a schoolgirl over, if it means keeping the game popular and alive.
its like an asian grind fest
But thats not pretty good standing. Rank 1 is relatively easy. And 276 tokens gets you only 50k standing, which is 1/3 what you need to get rank 2.
So..? Over 300k total standing in a couple weeks of very casual play isn't "slow grind" to me. I should be able to get to rank 4 with one faction in 2-3 months, which suits me fine as my main target for playing is having fun, not being rank 4 with all factions. Guess I just have a tad more patience...
Thats not what makes it a grind. Its the lack of content to get that standing. To get rank 2 you have to run the same quests over and over, or the same dungeons over and over. Or kill enemy faction, over and over. Are you really having fun killing ten rats a thousand times to get enough tokens?
Thats not what makes it a grind. Its the lack of content to get that standing. To get rank 2 you have to run the same quests over and over, or the same dungeons over and over. Or kill enemy faction, over and over. Are you really having fun killing ten rats a thousand times to get enough tokens?
Sounds about the same as any mmo Ive ever played.
Yes that different from farming ICC for last 3 months
..
Anyway based on funcon Financial reports one of posters in another forum broke it down to 70-100k subscribers for AoC in Q1 2010 and that number increased to 200-250k post expansion.
I don't do repeatables and the only grinding I've done was about 30 minutes which gave a a couple dozen tokens and about 10k standing (bumped me from 45 to 55k). The rest comes from running dungeons and non-repeatable quests. I am a big fan of grouping and I usually spend my time grouped up and figuring out dungeons.
Which is unrealistic given that 80% of the game is designed to be run solo. I dont see why you have to keep defending bad game design. The proof is in the pudding. AOC overall is not fun, and people quitting is proof. Once I get a get through the new content, I will quit as well and go back to a sandbox game.