Considering that all the big P2P MMOs are already nickel and diming their players (See WoW, all SOE and Cryptic games) I dont see the problem with F2Ps doing it, atleast you get the choice to not pay!
I agree with Lobotomist and I have said for a long time that monthly sub as only option for MMOs will be gone in a few years and this is great news for us players. Hybrids like DDO/LotrO and GW2 is the only way going forward and we are the winners.
Nope, with this "free to play" model, the players will certainly be on the losing end.
1. Less resources, because of uncertain planned income from investers. NO AAA ttiles will be developped with FTP models.
2. Players divided : lots of early levels, very few will want to pay for an ever thinning content and items/content only available through the cash shops (this time with game winning items and paid content patches).
3. Players will just hop from game to game, because it is all for 'free' (laughs), which makes the game not consistently played (death for an MMO thriving on an active player base).
It shows people type before thinking.
Its embarrassing when an NPC compliments you in an MMo, the only relevant, cool and epic things come from players whispering you Grtz, mate, we did it. copyright Pilnkplonk
Considering that all the big P2P MMOs are already nickel and diming their players (See WoW, all SOE and Cryptic games) I dont see the problem with F2Ps doing it, atleast you get the choice to not pay!
I agree with Lobotomist and I have said for a long time that monthly sub as only option for MMOs will be gone in a few years and this is great news for us players. Hybrids like DDO/LotrO and GW2 is the only way going forward and we are the winners.
Nope, with this "free to play" model, the players will certainly be on the losing end.
1. Less resources, because of uncertain planned income from investers. NO AAA ttiles will be developped with FTP models.
2. Players divided : lots of early levels, very few will want to pay for an ever thinning content and items/content only available through the cash shops (this time with game winning items and paid content patches).
3. Players will just hop from game to game, because it is all for 'free' (laughs), which makes the game not consistently played (death for an MMO thriving on an active player base).
Based on what? DDO and GW proves you wrong!
It shows people type before thinking.
Indeed!
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
The F2P is just a marketing stunt. We all know 'F2P' doesn't really exist.. There is no sush a thing as a free meal..
LOTRO for example, just read what the free players get and it is more something like a bigger trial version of the game. I mean, look what they get. Ered luin, the shire and bree for free, with all the quests in it up to lvl 20-25, and one dungeon the great barrows. And oke maby 3 skimrishes and they can get to lvl 50 for 'free' but that will be a painfull grind after lvl 25... And that's maby, 20 % of the game? lol? this is only the noobzonestuff. For every other zone they will have to pay. I will keep playing lotro as a VIP. Nothing changes for them. The F2P model is just to get more people in the game and to get more money.. And actually I can't blame turbine for it. It's a bussiness. It's about the money and results. And they know the system works, just look to DDO. It is just an evolution in the mmo scene, I can't really say it is bad :-).
------------------------------------------------------------------- waiting for ... nothing..
I would almost expect SWTOR to follow something very similar to this. You can pay monthly and get everything (VIP for turbine), pay for the box and not pay monthly (Premium), or just play for free and buy things from the shop (areas/classes/races/etc).
Following this would give reason why they have not shown which aliens will be "out" at release.
Bioware has a few games out that release a lot of Downloadable content. That fits in exactly with the model mentioned above.
Granted, some people might see the "Not ONLY P2P" as a sign of a bad game. This could cause SWTOR to be released as ONLY p2p for the first however long, before moving into the part mentioned above, no matter where the game is at.
People enjoy playing for free, and buying areas/classes/zones as they see fit. Others enjoy just getting the entire package at once.
Good move for LotRO, in my opinion. Fun game, and they really upped the tempo to the combat. It's much faster, and the graphics show it too in combat. I would expect the games amount of people paying for any aspect of it to rise as DDOs did.
Considering that all the big P2P MMOs are already nickel and diming their players (See WoW, all SOE and Cryptic games) I dont see the problem with F2Ps doing it, atleast you get the choice to not pay!
I agree with Lobotomist and I have said for a long time that monthly sub as only option for MMOs will be gone in a few years and this is great news for us players. Hybrids like DDO/LotrO and GW2 is the only way going forward and we are the winners.
Nope, with this "free to play" model, the players will certainly be on the losing end.
1. Less resources, because of uncertain planned income from investers. NO AAA ttiles will be developped with FTP models.
2. Players divided : lots of early levels, very few will want to pay for an ever thinning content and items/content only available through the cash shops (this time with game winning items and paid content patches).
3. Players will just hop from game to game, because it is all for 'free' (laughs), which makes the game not consistently played (death for an MMO thriving on an active player base).
Based on what? DDO and GW proves you wrong!
It shows people type before thinking.
Indeed!
First GW is not a real MMORPG and is suffering too because of lack of a future and secondly who says DDO keeps the long term players in right now.
Like I said: a LOT of players on early levels, but the investment of money and time is death to higher leveled content in "paid to see and win" games.
You see it in all these games: paid content thins out the player base and the longer these games exist, the fewer players they gather in higher levels.
The FTP model is a boost for a very short time but it's the final step to try to save a former AAA subs based game.
The game is drowning by lack of players now and you are not going to safe it with players who will only play the free to play early content only.
Bad move for the "polished" industry as well.
Its embarrassing when an NPC compliments you in an MMo, the only relevant, cool and epic things come from players whispering you Grtz, mate, we did it. copyright Pilnkplonk
Question: how does one pull people away from WoW. Maybe going F2P is there way to generate a larger player base and at the same time generate more income?
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Considering that all the big P2P MMOs are already nickel and diming their players (See WoW, all SOE and Cryptic games) I dont see the problem with F2Ps doing it, atleast you get the choice to not pay!
I agree with Lobotomist and I have said for a long time that monthly sub as only option for MMOs will be gone in a few years and this is great news for us players. Hybrids like DDO/LotrO and GW2 is the only way going forward and we are the winners.
Nope, with this "free to play" model, the players will certainly be on the losing end.
1. Less resources, because of uncertain planned income from investers. NO AAA ttiles will be developped with FTP models.
2. Players divided : lots of early levels, very few will want to pay for an ever thinning content and items/content only available through the cash shops (this time with game winning items and paid content patches).
3. Players will just hop from game to game, because it is all for 'free' (laughs), which makes the game not consistently played (death for an MMO thriving on an active player base).
Based on what? DDO and GW proves you wrong!
It shows people type before thinking.
Indeed!
First GW is not a real MMORPG and is suffering too because of lack of a future and secondly who says DDO keeps the long term players in right now.
Like I said: a LOT of players on early levels, but the investment of money and time is death to higher leveled content in "paid to see and win" games.
You see it in all these games: paid content thins out the player base and the longer these games exist, the fewer players they gather in higher levels.
The FTP model is a boost for a very short time but it's the final step to try to save a former AAA subs based game.
The game is drowning by lack of players now and you are not going to safe it with players who will only play the free to play early content only.
Bad move for the "polished" industry as well.
Again, based on what? Do you even know how the DDO/LotrO model work? DDO re-relase was 8 months ago, I think that gives us a pretty good idea how sucessful it has been and tha they are doing the same thing with LotrO is just further proof of that.
But I guess people rather have MMOs where youh have to pay 15/month and then $25 for mounts and stuff...
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
First GW is not a real MMORPG and is suffering too because of lack of a future and secondly who says DDO keeps the long term players in right now.
Like I said: a LOT of players on early levels, but the investment of money and time is death to higher leveled content in "paid to see and win" games.
You see it in all these games: paid content thins out the player base and the longer these games exist, the fewer players they gather in higher levels.
The FTP model is a boost for a very short time but it's the final step to try to save a former AAA subs based game.
The game is drowning by lack of players now and you are not going to safe it with players who will only play the free to play early content only.
Bad move for the "polished" industry as well.
Again, based on what? Do you even know how the DDO/LotrO model work? DDO re-relase was 8 months ago, I think that gives us a pretty good idea how sucessful it has been and tha they are doing the same thing with LotrO is just further proof of that.
But I guess people rather have MMOs where youh have to pay 15/month and then $25 for mounts and stuff...
Based on common sense: the pay for content and "help" just thins out your "free playing" population.
And IF DDO would be such a huge hit since relaunch why isn't it showing up in the top 10 on Xfire? A free to play game would surely be up there in played time and not linger in place 60 something.
Now since you don't have the means to prove anything (apart from the fact a lot of players installed it and dabbed a bit in it - like ANY new free to play game), you can't state anything about it either.
Its embarrassing when an NPC compliments you in an MMo, the only relevant, cool and epic things come from players whispering you Grtz, mate, we did it. copyright Pilnkplonk
It seems that the days of P2P subscription based MMOs is comming to its end.
On horison looms a MMO giant Guild Wars 2 , easily the most anticipated MMO ( yes even more than SWTOR according to mmorpg.com) - a mmo with no subscription costs whatsoever.
DDO allready showed everyone older and less sucesfull P2P MMO can be reborn to sucess as F2P.
And now News that LOTRO is switching from P2P to F2P model is probably the last nail in the P2P buisness model coffin.
LOTRO is one of 5 most played western MMOs. Its certanly profitable. But based on its experience Turbine knows it can be even more profitable as F2P. Its clear evidence.
Sony with DC Heroes is following, APB, Black Prophecy...
We all know WAR, POTBS, Vanguard ... would surely benefit. And are probably first ones to follow.
And there are rumors brewing WOW is planning the switch too.
Will SWTOR be the last P2P MMO ? And how will that reflect on its popularity, and retention ?
I guess time will tell.
I was quite shocked to see LotR go F2P. But looking at the current merket development, I think a whole lot more games will make the switch from P2P to F2P, and I even think SW:ToR will go F2P as well at release.
Why will SW_ToR go F2P..? Look at all other Bioware/EA games out there. EA clearly stated that they don't give a S**t about illegally downloaded games anymore. They compensate that with the profits from DLC (Dragon Age & Mass Effect 2). And with ME2 going MMO (I think it'll be an online MU thing, not a real MMO as we know them here), it might as well also effect SW:ToR. My bet is that ME2 MMO will be released Q3/Q4 to see how it'll go with DLC. If that goes well, then SW:ToR might be like GW: buy the game, play for free and have an item shop for extra content (yes, much like the DDO F2P shop).
Is the DDO F2P model a bad thing? I don't think so. We (the "hardcore" MMO players are given the oppertunity to play the game and see if we like it, without being forced to buy the game and then find out the game sucks. The only reason it could be bad is when the developer (SOE and Craptic come to mind) drops 9% of the new content in the item shop. Okay, I know they have to make money, but new content should be (partly) made available for the players in order to trigger them to buy the rest of the content as well...
You say WoW might go F2P as well..? They're already doing an amazing job with the fluffy (litterally) item shop. A good moment for WoW to change the model is with the Cataclism expansion. Though I doubt Blizzard will change the model anyday soon. My bet is that Blizzard will make future games F2P and leave WoW P2P as long as the game has 2M+ subscribers...
To be honest I'm actually starting to like LOTRO going free to play. Download the game for free and play as much as you want. Of course you have the choice of buying extra/future content and account upgrades if you desire, and I bet a majority of players are going to buy those extra content since they are permanent after purchase without having to pay monthly to keep it. Although I sort of wish they would sell the game box/digital download ($50 or less and with activation key) for initial purchase, guaranteed funding for the developers. Like the Guild Wars business model. Of course they shouldn't rule out the unlimited (but still a bit restricted) free trial period, like WAR has offered. I hope future MMOs or current MMOs that planning to move away from the P2P model, would use the B2P and Turbine-like cash store model. In my opinion of course.
Considering that all the big P2P MMOs are already nickel and diming their players (See WoW, all SOE and Cryptic games) I dont see the problem with F2Ps doing it, atleast you get the choice to not pay!
I agree with Lobotomist and I have said for a long time that monthly sub as only option for MMOs will be gone in a few years and this is great news for us players. Hybrids like DDO/LotrO and GW2 is the only way going forward and we are the winners.
Nope, with this "free to play" model, the players will certainly be on the losing end.
1. Less resources, because of uncertain planned income from investers. NO AAA ttiles will be developped with FTP models.
2. Players divided : lots of early levels, very few will want to pay for an ever thinning content and items/content only available through the cash shops (this time with game winning items and paid content patches).
3. Players will just hop from game to game, because it is all for 'free' (laughs), which makes the game not consistently played (death for an MMO thriving on an active player base).
Based on what? DDO and GW proves you wrong!
It shows people type before thinking.
Indeed!
First GW is not a real MMORPG and is suffering too because of lack of a future and secondly who says DDO keeps the long term players in right now.
Like I said: a LOT of players on early levels, but the investment of money and time is death to higher leveled content in "paid to see and win" games.
You see it in all these games: paid content thins out the player base and the longer these games exist, the fewer players they gather in higher levels.
The FTP model is a boost for a very short time but it's the final step to try to save a former AAA subs based game.
The game is drowning by lack of players now and you are not going to safe it with players who will only play the free to play early content only.
Bad move for the "polished" industry as well.
Baloney. I'm not saying P2P will not have a future, but F2P seems to be a valid business model as well.
Turbine says they've seen an increase of 500% on their cash revenue for DDO since going F2P, someone mentioned that the subscriber numbers for DD (that's people still paying rather than only playing F2P) have doubled since as well.
ArenaNet will release their hugely anticipated GW2 the same as GW as well, F2P: only buying the game, then being able to play it sub-free. With the enormous interest in GW2 and the good reputation of ANet they didn't have to do it, they could easily make it a P2P game. Still, apparently after having experience with this model with GW they're convinced they can make a non-P2P model work for them.
Good move for the polished industry, more diversity in payment models catered to your taste.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
You say WoW might go F2P as well..? They're already doing an amazing job with the fluffy (litterally) item shop. A good moment for WoW to change the model is with the Cataclism expansion. Though I doubt Blizzard will change the model anyday soon. My bet is that Blizzard will make future games F2P and leave WoW P2P as long as the game has 2M+ subscribers...
No, WoW fluffy item shop is on top of a sub = (potentially) even higher cost for playing the game. Smells like milking the game to me, but that's just me.
I think Blizzard will make future games F2P too and leave their cash cow WoW as is for as long as it keeps generating great profit, or they will go for a package model, where you'll pay for a game package, where you get access via Battlenet to a set of games & services like WoW, SC2, D3, remote AH, etc
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
While we're on that hypocrisy thing though, why is it that so many fans of F2P games insist that their games are the wave of the future and start endless threads about how outdated P2P is or how it going to be replaced??
I've seen maybe four threads in the past three or four months where the OP was doing as you suggest. Threads started specirfically to take torch and pitchfork to F2P are a rather weekly, if not daily, occurrence here. What forums are you reading?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Companies have no choice but to go free to play.Why because the mmo market is being crowd with games.The Box price plus month fee means that you will never some people to try your game or keep playing your game.WoW owns more than half the market and has players who will never stop playing Wow.
How do you get WoW players to play your game?By creating a pricing plan that does not compete with WoW.Warhammer ,Aoc, Aion shows you can take WoW players but they always go back,What happens if they don't have to go back what happens if they can play both with out having to pick one."If you can't beat them join them" meaning companies are starting to learn you will not take wow gamers away but lets find a way have WoW players play our game as well as WoW,you can make money.
It seems that the days of P2P subscription based MMOs is comming to its end.
On horison looms a MMO giant Guild Wars 2 , easily the most anticipated MMO ( yes even more than SWTOR according to mmorpg.com) - a mmo with no subscription costs whatsoever.
DDO allready showed everyone older and less sucesfull P2P MMO can be reborn to sucess as F2P.
And now News that LOTRO is switching from P2P to F2P model is probably the last nail in the P2P buisness model coffin.
LOTRO is one of 5 most played western MMOs. Its certanly profitable. But based on its experience Turbine knows it can be even more profitable as F2P. Its clear evidence.
Sony with DC Heroes is following, APB, Black Prophecy...
We all know WAR, POTBS, Vanguard ... would surely benefit. And are probably first ones to follow.
And there are rumors brewing WOW is planning the switch too.
Will SWTOR be the last P2P MMO ? And how will that reflect on its popularity, and retention ?
I guess time will tell.
Couldn't agree more with you...I always hear.."I didn't play Guild Wars so I can't comment" well I"m here to tell you
you missed a great game...Guild Wars and all of it's updates and expansions are totally awesome. Guild Wars 2 will be immensly popular it already has a huge following and is gaining ground on all F2P mmo's.....
let's see...F2P saved DDO
F2P will make LOTRO even more popular
Guild Wars 2 will also be very popular probably even more so than those two...
Where does that leave Old Republic??????
BioWare and EA better get their heads together...I've been a long time Bioware Fan and love that development company but.....if they don't change their model they will probably suffer....
When playing Guild Wars the freedom you had to just put the game aside and not worry about wasting 15.00 a month for nothing was a huge factor in me sticking with that game for a long long time...
All games tend to exploit their customers and base their payment model on that exploitation.
It used to be that games had long, slow leveling curves and good loot took a long time to attain. In that type of game, charging people by the month made sense because a customer will have to play for years to max out and really gear up.
Now games have shorter leveling curves and loot is easier to get. The player may not be there that long. But what they want while they are there is easy, fast, good stuff, right now. So give them an item shop and let them spend away.
The payment model is changing to adapt to modern games. ....
This. People are more inclined to instant gratification, so P2P sells.
I'm not calling it good or bad, just saying the trend for quick results is here to stay and seems to be the mainstream now while the older grind style games are losing numbers. I'm not saying it won't swing back the other way when people get tired or the "cheaper" feeling of success, just that it is what it is for now.(at least in the NA market)
The P2P model will still exist, you just now have the option of paying a subscription fee or paying on a per content basis. Both DDO and LotRO have subscription options that basically give you all the content you would need plus some extra stuff you can get via the item mall. A player who spends a ton in the item mall won't have a huge (if any) advantage over the subscription player. It's really just giving players more options and thus reeling in more customers. Now you can try a game beyond the trial period before you fork over a subscription fee, or if you are really casual and don't feel a subscription fee is worth your time you can make small microtransactions as you need to.
There are two downsides (I feel the upsides outweigh them) those being that it brings in a younger community and that it can make gameplay (especially future content) revolve around the need to use the item shop. The first one is pretty managable in a PvE game if you stick to your cliques and guilds and such that are more adult. The second can have a nasty effect on the industry, but I think if they make this too much the case current MMO subscribers are going to leave and not pay, so it's up to the company to decide how much they are going to try to milk their players anyway. Item malls still exist in most P2P games with subscriptions now, such as WoW, CO, STO, EQ2, even if they are purely cosmetic.
This is also my view on way things will be, so now that the big boys are looking into these types of payment models the more dubious F2P games will not stand a chance of survival and for the AAA games to be competative their item malls will have to be fair to all or the player base will upsticks and move to another fairer game because they don't have the restriction of purchasing a box or stumping up a sub, win win I see for choice and us the players. This competition might bring with it more diversity to genre as a whole as competition should really, companies will go for more niches now as specialising will have more of a chance of getting people to sub. Also I feel this will be a boon to all who start games no more will they need to "refresh" starter zones as there wil always be plenty of people trying the game so grouping up will be always viable, this is from my experience of playing older F2P games there are always a healthy population in the starter areas.
Overall I feel this is positive move for all of us and should breath some real competition into the whole P2P & F2P marketplace and quality should rise as if you let it slip players will just move onto better products or leave the genre altogether and companies really do not waht that do they?
Cal.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
It seems that the days of P2P subscription based MMOs is comming to its end.
On horison looms a MMO giant Guild Wars 2 , easily the most anticipated MMO ( yes even more than SWTOR according to mmorpg.com) - a mmo with no subscription costs whatsoever.
DDO allready showed everyone older and less sucesfull P2P MMO can be reborn to sucess as F2P.
And now News that LOTRO is switching from P2P to F2P model is probably the last nail in the P2P buisness model coffin.
LOTRO is one of 5 most played western MMOs. Its certanly profitable. But based on its experience Turbine knows it can be even more profitable as F2P. Its clear evidence.
Sony with DC Heroes is following, APB, Black Prophecy...
We all know WAR, POTBS, Vanguard ... would surely benefit. And are probably first ones to follow.
And there are rumors brewing WOW is planning the switch too.
Will SWTOR be the last P2P MMO ? And how will that reflect on its popularity, and retention ?
I guess time will tell.
It is really hard to say. People will play the game they think is best, no matter the subscription model.
As for GW2 I don't think everyone here will like it. People who only play for loot and raiders will not like it. Of course they probably won't like TOR either.
But there are other interesting P2P games in development, like World of darkness online. If many games move to itemshops I think that the games who refuse them will get a lot of subs because some of us don't like the entire idea.
Very common misconception used by a lot of people based on nothing but ignorance of the genre and usually limited to someones experience in just 1 or a few games a couple years ago, and hell many times used by people who have NEVER even played a F2P game and jsut assume it is true because that is what someone else who has no idea what theyre talking about said. I used to think the same way when I first started trying F2P games, but that is not the case anymore. Repeating ignorance repeatedly spoken by another ignorant person does not turn something into truth.
I've played about 5 F2P games and they were all Pay to Win. (i.e. ROM's PVP server being the most recent). Please tell me the newer games that are not this way because I want to see for myself.(DDO, LotRO and other former P2P's don't count)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Very common misconception used by a lot of people based on nothing but ignorance of the genre and usually limited to someones experience in just 1 or a few games a couple years ago, and hell many times used by people who have NEVER even played a F2P game and jsut assume it is true because that is what someone else who has no idea what theyre talking about said. I used to think the same way when I first started trying F2P games, but that is not the case anymore. Repeating ignorance repeatedly spoken by another ignorant person does not turn something into truth.
I've played about 5 F2P games and they were all Pay to Win. (i.e. ROM's PVP server being the most recent). Please tell me the newer games that are not this way because I want to see for myself.
DDO? Which should be the best example of what is going to happen with LotRO.
It's like everyone is overlooking the obvious.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Didn't John Smedley say that MMO's were heading in this direction like 2 years ago? If I remember right everyone on these board was shitting all over him for saying it. Now that Turbine has said the exact same crap everyone embraces it. Kind of weird, don't you think?
Didn't John Smedley say that MMO's were heading in this direction like 2 years ago? If I remember right everyone on these board was shitting all over him for saying it. Now that Turbine has said the exact same crap everyone embraces it. Kind of weird, don't you think?
Not really.
Nobody here can mention the phrase "SOE" without throwing salt over their shoulder.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Comments
Nope, with this "free to play" model, the players will certainly be on the losing end.
1. Less resources, because of uncertain planned income from investers. NO AAA ttiles will be developped with FTP models.
2. Players divided : lots of early levels, very few will want to pay for an ever thinning content and items/content only available through the cash shops (this time with game winning items and paid content patches).
3. Players will just hop from game to game, because it is all for 'free' (laughs), which makes the game not consistently played (death for an MMO thriving on an active player base).
It shows people type before thinking.
Its embarrassing when an NPC compliments you in an MMo, the only relevant, cool and epic things come from players whispering you Grtz, mate, we did it. copyright Pilnkplonk
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
The F2P is just a marketing stunt. We all know 'F2P' doesn't really exist.. There is no sush a thing as a free meal..
LOTRO for example, just read what the free players get and it is more something like a bigger trial version of the game. I mean, look what they get. Ered luin, the shire and bree for free, with all the quests in it up to lvl 20-25, and one dungeon the great barrows. And oke maby 3 skimrishes and they can get to lvl 50 for 'free' but that will be a painfull grind after lvl 25... And that's maby, 20 % of the game? lol? this is only the noobzonestuff. For every other zone they will have to pay. I will keep playing lotro as a VIP. Nothing changes for them. The F2P model is just to get more people in the game and to get more money.. And actually I can't blame turbine for it. It's a bussiness. It's about the money and results. And they know the system works, just look to DDO. It is just an evolution in the mmo scene, I can't really say it is bad :-).
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waiting for ... nothing..
I would almost expect SWTOR to follow something very similar to this. You can pay monthly and get everything (VIP for turbine), pay for the box and not pay monthly (Premium), or just play for free and buy things from the shop (areas/classes/races/etc).
Following this would give reason why they have not shown which aliens will be "out" at release.
Bioware has a few games out that release a lot of Downloadable content. That fits in exactly with the model mentioned above.
Granted, some people might see the "Not ONLY P2P" as a sign of a bad game. This could cause SWTOR to be released as ONLY p2p for the first however long, before moving into the part mentioned above, no matter where the game is at.
People enjoy playing for free, and buying areas/classes/zones as they see fit. Others enjoy just getting the entire package at once.
Good move for LotRO, in my opinion. Fun game, and they really upped the tempo to the combat. It's much faster, and the graphics show it too in combat. I would expect the games amount of people paying for any aspect of it to rise as DDOs did.
First GW is not a real MMORPG and is suffering too because of lack of a future and secondly who says DDO keeps the long term players in right now.
Like I said: a LOT of players on early levels, but the investment of money and time is death to higher leveled content in "paid to see and win" games.
You see it in all these games: paid content thins out the player base and the longer these games exist, the fewer players they gather in higher levels.
The FTP model is a boost for a very short time but it's the final step to try to save a former AAA subs based game.
The game is drowning by lack of players now and you are not going to safe it with players who will only play the free to play early content only.
Bad move for the "polished" industry as well.
Its embarrassing when an NPC compliments you in an MMo, the only relevant, cool and epic things come from players whispering you Grtz, mate, we did it. copyright Pilnkplonk
Question: how does one pull people away from WoW. Maybe going F2P is there way to generate a larger player base and at the same time generate more income?
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Again, based on what? Do you even know how the DDO/LotrO model work? DDO re-relase was 8 months ago, I think that gives us a pretty good idea how sucessful it has been and tha they are doing the same thing with LotrO is just further proof of that.
But I guess people rather have MMOs where youh have to pay 15/month and then $25 for mounts and stuff...
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Based on common sense: the pay for content and "help" just thins out your "free playing" population.
And IF DDO would be such a huge hit since relaunch why isn't it showing up in the top 10 on Xfire? A free to play game would surely be up there in played time and not linger in place 60 something.
Now since you don't have the means to prove anything (apart from the fact a lot of players installed it and dabbed a bit in it - like ANY new free to play game), you can't state anything about it either.
Its embarrassing when an NPC compliments you in an MMo, the only relevant, cool and epic things come from players whispering you Grtz, mate, we did it. copyright Pilnkplonk
I was quite shocked to see LotR go F2P. But looking at the current merket development, I think a whole lot more games will make the switch from P2P to F2P, and I even think SW:ToR will go F2P as well at release.
Why will SW_ToR go F2P..? Look at all other Bioware/EA games out there. EA clearly stated that they don't give a S**t about illegally downloaded games anymore. They compensate that with the profits from DLC (Dragon Age & Mass Effect 2). And with ME2 going MMO (I think it'll be an online MU thing, not a real MMO as we know them here), it might as well also effect SW:ToR. My bet is that ME2 MMO will be released Q3/Q4 to see how it'll go with DLC. If that goes well, then SW:ToR might be like GW: buy the game, play for free and have an item shop for extra content (yes, much like the DDO F2P shop).
Is the DDO F2P model a bad thing? I don't think so. We (the "hardcore" MMO players are given the oppertunity to play the game and see if we like it, without being forced to buy the game and then find out the game sucks. The only reason it could be bad is when the developer (SOE and Craptic come to mind) drops 9% of the new content in the item shop. Okay, I know they have to make money, but new content should be (partly) made available for the players in order to trigger them to buy the rest of the content as well...
You say WoW might go F2P as well..? They're already doing an amazing job with the fluffy (litterally) item shop. A good moment for WoW to change the model is with the Cataclism expansion. Though I doubt Blizzard will change the model anyday soon. My bet is that Blizzard will make future games F2P and leave WoW P2P as long as the game has 2M+ subscribers...
To be honest I'm actually starting to like LOTRO going free to play. Download the game for free and play as much as you want. Of course you have the choice of buying extra/future content and account upgrades if you desire, and I bet a majority of players are going to buy those extra content since they are permanent after purchase without having to pay monthly to keep it. Although I sort of wish they would sell the game box/digital download ($50 or less and with activation key) for initial purchase, guaranteed funding for the developers. Like the Guild Wars business model. Of course they shouldn't rule out the unlimited (but still a bit restricted) free trial period, like WAR has offered. I hope future MMOs or current MMOs that planning to move away from the P2P model, would use the B2P and Turbine-like cash store model. In my opinion of course.
Age of reason and progression.
well... thing is.. how should a new devolped game get money to make a polished game, going f2p from start?
Baloney. I'm not saying P2P will not have a future, but F2P seems to be a valid business model as well.
Turbine says they've seen an increase of 500% on their cash revenue for DDO since going F2P, someone mentioned that the subscriber numbers for DD (that's people still paying rather than only playing F2P) have doubled since as well.
ArenaNet will release their hugely anticipated GW2 the same as GW as well, F2P: only buying the game, then being able to play it sub-free. With the enormous interest in GW2 and the good reputation of ANet they didn't have to do it, they could easily make it a P2P game. Still, apparently after having experience with this model with GW they're convinced they can make a non-P2P model work for them.
Good move for the polished industry, more diversity in payment models catered to your taste.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
No, WoW fluffy item shop is on top of a sub = (potentially) even higher cost for playing the game. Smells like milking the game to me, but that's just me.
I think Blizzard will make future games F2P too and leave their cash cow WoW as is for as long as it keeps generating great profit, or they will go for a package model, where you'll pay for a game package, where you get access via Battlenet to a set of games & services like WoW, SC2, D3, remote AH, etc
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
well, i never play Lotro, and never even try to get my hands on it, let alone trial
but this news shock even a non Lotro fans, this is indeed a dissapointing news for some
i wish you all well in Lotro
So What Now?
yep it will bring lot of new player !dont forget lot of market dont play game that are just p2p !this
nybrid model will cover both market joyously
I've seen maybe four threads in the past three or four months where the OP was doing as you suggest. Threads started specirfically to take torch and pitchfork to F2P are a rather weekly, if not daily, occurrence here. What forums are you reading?
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Companies have no choice but to go free to play.Why because the mmo market is being crowd with games.The Box price plus month fee means that you will never some people to try your game or keep playing your game.WoW owns more than half the market and has players who will never stop playing Wow.
How do you get WoW players to play your game?By creating a pricing plan that does not compete with WoW.Warhammer ,Aoc, Aion shows you can take WoW players but they always go back,What happens if they don't have to go back what happens if they can play both with out having to pick one."If you can't beat them join them" meaning companies are starting to learn you will not take wow gamers away but lets find a way have WoW players play our game as well as WoW,you can make money.
Hybrid Free to play/Pay to Models are the future.
This. People are more inclined to instant gratification, so P2P sells.
I'm not calling it good or bad, just saying the trend for quick results is here to stay and seems to be the mainstream now while the older grind style games are losing numbers. I'm not saying it won't swing back the other way when people get tired or the "cheaper" feeling of success, just that it is what it is for now.(at least in the NA market)
This is also my view on way things will be, so now that the big boys are looking into these types of payment models the more dubious F2P games will not stand a chance of survival and for the AAA games to be competative their item malls will have to be fair to all or the player base will upsticks and move to another fairer game because they don't have the restriction of purchasing a box or stumping up a sub, win win I see for choice and us the players. This competition might bring with it more diversity to genre as a whole as competition should really, companies will go for more niches now as specialising will have more of a chance of getting people to sub. Also I feel this will be a boon to all who start games no more will they need to "refresh" starter zones as there wil always be plenty of people trying the game so grouping up will be always viable, this is from my experience of playing older F2P games there are always a healthy population in the starter areas.
Overall I feel this is positive move for all of us and should breath some real competition into the whole P2P & F2P marketplace and quality should rise as if you let it slip players will just move onto better products or leave the genre altogether and companies really do not waht that do they?
Cal.
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It is really hard to say. People will play the game they think is best, no matter the subscription model.
As for GW2 I don't think everyone here will like it. People who only play for loot and raiders will not like it. Of course they probably won't like TOR either.
But there are other interesting P2P games in development, like World of darkness online. If many games move to itemshops I think that the games who refuse them will get a lot of subs because some of us don't like the entire idea.
I've played about 5 F2P games and they were all Pay to Win. (i.e. ROM's PVP server being the most recent). Please tell me the newer games that are not this way because I want to see for myself.(DDO, LotRO and other former P2P's don't count)
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DDO? Which should be the best example of what is going to happen with LotRO.
It's like everyone is overlooking the obvious.
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Didn't John Smedley say that MMO's were heading in this direction like 2 years ago? If I remember right everyone on these board was shitting all over him for saying it. Now that Turbine has said the exact same crap everyone embraces it. Kind of weird, don't you think?
Not really.
Nobody here can mention the phrase "SOE" without throwing salt over their shoulder.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture