It seems that the days of P2P subscription based MMOs is comming to its end.
On horison looms a MMO giant Guild Wars 2 , easily the most anticipated MMO ( yes even more than SWTOR according to mmorpg.com) - a mmo with no subscription costs whatsoever.
DDO allready showed everyone older and less sucesfull P2P MMO can be reborn to sucess as F2P.
And now News that LOTRO is switching from P2P to F2P model is probably the last nail in the P2P buisness model coffin.
LOTRO is one of 5 most played western MMOs. Its certanly profitable. But based on its experience Turbine knows it can be even more profitable as F2P. Its clear evidence.
Sony with DC Heroes is following, APB, Black Prophecy...
We all know WAR, POTBS, Vanguard ... would surely benefit. And are probably first ones to follow.
And there are rumors brewing WOW is planning the switch too.
Will SWTOR be the last P2P MMO ? And how will that reflect on its popularity, and retention ?
I guess time will tell.
It is really hard to say. People will play the game they think is best, no matter the subscription model.
As for GW2 I don't think everyone here will like it. People who only play for loot and raiders will not like it. Of course they probably won't like TOR either.
But there are other interesting P2P games in development, like World of darkness online. If many games move to itemshops I think that the games who refuse them will get a lot of subs because some of us don't like the entire idea.
For me, the subscription model is part of the game, when it's a cash shop.
I have an intense dislike of shopping in an MMORPG with real money. I'ts a HUGE immersion breaker for me.
I want a separate experience in the game, from the real world.
Shopping with real money, seriously damages that experience for me.
15 bucks, and I'm playing a game.
Spend 50 cents inside the gmae in an item shop, and now I don't feel like I'm playing a game anymore, I feel like I'm at the Mall, and for me that's not fun at all.
So I just dont' think it's valid to say "best game no matter what the subscription model" when the subscription model has a real impact on the game itself.
I"m not playing F2P with a cash shop.
Even if EVERYONE is playing a cash shop game. EVERYONE plays WoW, and I don't like that either.
It's either fun for me or not, and cash shop games are not fun.
I don't mind however, LOTRO going cash shop. It was after all, just another WoW clone and I had no real interest in it.
However, I do feel sorry for those that bought a life time sub, and the game was changed on them.
I would feel exactly like the NGE in SWG if I had a lifetime sub that was changed into a cash shop game.
I know they get "free points" to spend, but that would also wreck the game for me. The ONLY way you should buy ANYTHING in the game, is with gold and silver your character earned it the game, period.
It seems that the days of P2P subscription based MMOs is comming to its end.
On horison looms a MMO giant Guild Wars 2 , easily the most anticipated MMO ( yes even more than SWTOR according to mmorpg.com) - a mmo with no subscription costs whatsoever.
DDO allready showed everyone older and less sucesfull P2P MMO can be reborn to sucess as F2P.
And now News that LOTRO is switching from P2P to F2P model is probably the last nail in the P2P buisness model coffin.
LOTRO is one of 5 most played western MMOs. Its certanly profitable. But based on its experience Turbine knows it can be even more profitable as F2P. Its clear evidence.
Sony with DC Heroes is following, APB, Black Prophecy...
We all know WAR, POTBS, Vanguard ... would surely benefit. And are probably first ones to follow.
And there are rumors brewing WOW is planning the switch too.
Will SWTOR be the last P2P MMO ? And how will that reflect on its popularity, and retention ?
I guess time will tell.
This is showing todays mmo devs that not every mmo is capable of surviving as a P2p game.
Games like WoW & Eve are polished and well made enough to hold subscribers while everything else should just go F2p or B2p to be a success.
WAR, Lotro, Aion and AoC would have millions of free accounts here in the west if they went F2p like DDO.
I know they get "free points" to spend, but that would also wreck the game for me. The ONLY way you should buy ANYTHING in the game, is with gold and silver your character earned it the game, period.
That makes it an RPG, not Shopping Online.
What can you buy with these "free points"? Armour, weapons, traits? Or are they destiny points?
This is showing todays mmo devs that not every mmo is capable of surviving as a P2p game.
Games like WoW & Eve are polished and well made enough to hold subscribers while everything else should just go F2p or B2p to be a success.
WAR, Lotro, Aion and AoC would have millions of free accounts here in the west if they went F2p like DDO.
Well... WAR has the unlimited free access to low levels, and it's quite similar to how DDO and LotRO is doing it, but it's not really working out because people still have to pay monthly for it, and having done the low level stuff myself at launch... there's nothing to really brag about there.
Aion would surely do better, and if it was fully F2P it would do *a lot* better here in the states. AoC stands to gain the most out something like this because it's a great game that just requires the hurdle of entry to be climbed over. The Tortage trials seem to be working good, but not as well as it could/should be. People are still not quite down to download a free trial of a game, compared to a game they suppose would be completely free to play if they can stomach the setbacks. Still, I think the free Tortage thing is working well enough.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
It seems that the days of P2P subscription based MMOs is comming to its end.
On horison looms a MMO giant Guild Wars 2 , easily the most anticipated MMO ( yes even more than SWTOR according to mmorpg.com) - a mmo with no subscription costs whatsoever.
DDO allready showed everyone older and less sucesfull P2P MMO can be reborn to sucess as F2P.
And now News that LOTRO is switching from P2P to F2P model is probably the last nail in the P2P buisness model coffin.
LOTRO is one of 5 most played western MMOs. Its certanly profitable. But based on its experience Turbine knows it can be even more profitable as F2P. Its clear evidence.
Sony with DC Heroes is following, APB, Black Prophecy...
We all know WAR, POTBS, Vanguard ... would surely benefit. And are probably first ones to follow.
And there are rumors brewing WOW is planning the switch too.
Will SWTOR be the last P2P MMO ? And how will that reflect on its popularity, and retention ?
I guess time will tell.
I really hope you are correct with this. Monthly subscription fees are a nasty habit that have become accepted as the norm and it's about time that they were phased out. People seem to assume that monthly subscription fees somehow equate to better quality and it clearly isnt true considering the piss poor state of virtually every mmo on the market.
MMOs should be treated exactly like any other computer game. Why should I pay extra every month to play a game I already paid for, especially when the quality of that game is miles below what you can get from a decent single player game which often comes with a multiplayer experience? Most of these mmos arent true multiplayer games anyway. They are just extremely shoddy single player games that rely on text files for entertainment instead of good gameplay with the option to play with others to fight the really poor computer AI.
I also dont play games full time like some addicts do. I have other things to get on with. What if I fancy playing a particular game for a few hours here and there when the fancy takes me? I end up having to pay for a full month even though I dont get a full months worth of play time.
Games companies should charge for individual expansions as extra content is completed but certainly not for fixing or adding features that were missing at launch. Why should we pay ongoing costs to support the development of unfinished games? That effectively makes everyone paying beta testers......for years. Other single and multiplayer games recieve patches and updates on a regular basis without charging its players extra. Server costs are also not an excuse. Does each player on the server cost the games company £10 a month? Obviously not. ArenaNet pisses all over these companies feeble reasons for their uneccessary charges. Yep I really hope monthly subscriptions are on the way out.
I think the OP is being a bit too over enthusiastic about F2P :P
Does any 'serious DDO players' play without paying the subsription?
For me, F2P games mean filled with children and teens whose mom are not paying their subscription... Not really the kind of audience I'm looking for.
Also the most popular P2P game has few times more subscribers than all of those F2P titles combined.
I think AAA MMOs should get a P2P release, then become F2P once their initial development cost has been covered. In the ideal world though, AAA developers would keep improving their digital world or game engine instead of just cashing in their subscription income.
It seems that the days of P2P subscription based MMOs is comming to its end.
On horison looms a MMO giant Guild Wars 2 , easily the most anticipated MMO ( yes even more than SWTOR according to mmorpg.com) - a mmo with no subscription costs whatsoever.
DDO allready showed everyone older and less sucesfull P2P MMO can be reborn to sucess as F2P.
And now News that LOTRO is switching from P2P to F2P model is probably the last nail in the P2P buisness model coffin.
LOTRO is one of 5 most played western MMOs. Its certanly profitable. But based on its experience Turbine knows it can be even more profitable as F2P. Its clear evidence.
Sony with DC Heroes is following, APB, Black Prophecy...
We all know WAR, POTBS, Vanguard ... would surely benefit. And are probably first ones to follow.
And there are rumors brewing WOW is planning the switch too.
Will SWTOR be the last P2P MMO ? And how will that reflect on its popularity, and retention ?
I guess time will tell.
You may be on to something here. Lotro will be a litmus test for this pricing model for sure. Everybody is watching. Of course, new games that adopt this model shouldn't forget that Lotro is also a darn good game as well. It's looking good for Lotro imho.
I think the OP is being a bit too over enthusiastic about F2P :P
Does any 'serious DDO players' play without paying the subsription?
For me, F2P games mean filled with children and teens whose mom are not paying their subscription... Not really the kind of audience I'm looking for.
Also the most popular P2P game has few times more subscribers than all of those F2P titles combined.
I think AAA MMOs should get a P2P release, then become F2P once their initial development cost has been covered. In the ideal world though, AAA developers would keep improving their digital world or game engine instead of just cashing in their subscription income.
I hear what you're saying, plus here's the truth: a whole bunch of 'serious gamers' are getting older, getting married and having kids...it's nice to also see them in-game at the same time without breaking the bank. Two of my sons are old enough to play, but too broke to afford a $15 a month sub. This is a perfect solution for us to play together in a top-notch MMO.
No serious gamer will be saying goodbye to paying for a game...I plan on paying for any game I play, even Lotro...but my family really doesn't play enough to merit and additional 3 monthly subcription fees. This might have helped me decide what game I'll be playing!
Just wait until the Hobbit movies come out! Server queues? I predect yes!
All games tend to exploit their customers and base their payment model on that exploitation.
It used to be that games had long, slow leveling curves and good loot took a long time to attain. In that type of game, charging people by the month made sense because a customer will have to play for years to max out and really gear up.
Now games have shorter leveling curves and loot is easier to get. The player may not be there that long. But what they want while they are there is easy, fast, good stuff, right now. So give them an item shop and let them spend away.
The payment model is changing to adapt to modern games. Personally, I hate it, but what can be done?
What can be done? simple refuse to pay for it by paying for this crap its telling game companies it is accepted and they will continue doing it.
You can try. The simple truth is that the F2P model is profitable (i.e. people are willing to pay bit & pieces for content) and it is acceptable to the market.
Considering that all the big P2P MMOs are already nickel and diming their players (See WoW, all SOE and Cryptic games) I dont see the problem with F2Ps doing it, atleast you get the choice to not pay!
I agree with Lobotomist and I have said for a long time that monthly sub as only option for MMOs will be gone in a few years and this is great news for us players. Hybrids like DDO/LotrO and GW2 is the only way going forward and we are the winners.
Based on what? DDO and GW proves you wrong!
Actually... only DDO.
Guild Wars is not F2P - no matter how much some people insist on saying it is. There is no sub fee, but you have to *buy* Guild Wars in order to play it. You have to buy its expansions in order to play them. Having to *buy* something does not make it *free*. Free = "no purchase required". GW requires a purchase to play... Get it?
But even being generous and giving you GW for the sake of argument... A whopping 2 MMOs that you can list out of the mountain of F2P titles out there is not exactly a "trump card". It's not a stretch at all that people hop between F2P MMOs quite a lot. Just reading the forums here about people who have tried different F2P MMOs, never finding one they were satisfied with, is an example of that.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I know they get "free points" to spend, but that would also wreck the game for me. The ONLY way you should buy ANYTHING in the game, is with gold and silver your character earned it the game, period.
That makes it an RPG, not Shopping Online.
Wreck the game for you. Attract back 100 players and some will spend more than you. Sounds like a pretty good trade.
It's sort of funny how all these free to play mmos are so bad I wouldn't play them even if they payed me fifteen bucks a month.
There will always be a place for quality p2p mmos, if anything it is the box sale that is a dinosaur, better to do like CCP and just sell the subscriptions. I wouldn't be surprised if someone starts doing this even for singleplayer games, selling downloadable content seems to work well enough, so selling a subscription of sorts to an ongoing saga is just the next logical step.
Free to play games certainly have a niche to fill though, it's the perfect model for ad supported crapware, at least until the advertisers realize that penniless kids isn't the most desirable group to target with ads. But it is also a good model for venerable old games that are nearing their end of life anyway. Once it becomes obvious that it's becoming hard to sell a dated game it's a nobrainer to make it "free", it lowers expectations, makes players less demanding and bolsters the population. And there are always a few suckers who gladly borrow mom's creditcard to get a special pet or whatever.
Hm, I am neutral in this question. I don't generally mind alternative payment models, esp. since it means to try out a game and then see if it's good. But it does not seem all daisies and roses either. For instance, how big is the gap between F2P and VIP players in LOTRO? Will I end up paying as before, because the free content is more or less trashy? I mean, not really trashy, since LOTRO is ok, but well, all the really cool stuff is for payment? And then, monthly fee always seemed to work as a certain barrier to a certain type of gamer... the less dedicated and also often less civilized sort of fellow, shall we say. I mean, ok, maybe that's a prejudice. I don't like the doomsaying of some, but I am still on the fence whether or not this is really good.
It might be we pay considerably more in the end, even. Especially people who are, shall we say, weak willed and spent tons of money in shops for new haircuts, robes and emotes and whatnot.
P2P games won't be removed. There are plenty of people who specifically play P2P games because of their ideology on them. In other words, some people believe when a game is P2P, the quality is better, there are less children, etc.
What will happen however is the diminishment of many smaller P2P MMO's. This is of course healthy for the MMO industry, because we will have more quality P2P MMO's, and only the strongest will survive. Basically, people won't even bother making these shitty P2P MMO's, because the majority of the audience will have shrunk. So even if a few people remain for these poor quality games, they will not be enough to keep the game on it's feet. That doesn't mean those shitty P2P MMO's won't become F2P. There is no doubt this model will become more popular, but like it's been said, few will survive.
The direct impact of all of this will be fewer good quality MMOs.
There needs to be a line drawn also between F2P games and F2P games with microtransactions. There is a major difference, and many people fail to see this. Some people high on their horses believe that all F2P games are cheap and horrible quality, this is not true however in many cases. They need to see success where it's been given, notably with GW and LotRO.
Hm, I am neutral in this question. I don't generally mind alternative payment models, esp. since it means to try out a game and then see if it's good. But it does not seem all daisies and roses either. For instance, how big is the gap between F2P and VIP players in LOTRO? Will I end up paying as before, because the free content is more or less trashy? I mean, not really trashy, since LOTRO is ok, but well, all the really cool stuff is for payment? And then, monthly fee always seemed to work as a certain barrier to a certain type of gamer... the less dedicated and also often less civilized sort of fellow, shall we say. I mean, ok, maybe that's a prejudice. I don't like the doomsaying of some, but I am still on the fence whether or not this is really good.
It might be we pay considerably more in the end, even. Especially people who are, shall we say, weak willed and spent tons of money in shops for new haircuts, robes and emotes and whatnot.
There will be no real difference between using the Cash Shop or using the Sub model. You are restricted in LotrO after level 15-25 I believe (quests are locked for exemple). That's where the Free Part ends, though you may still grind up to level 50. At that point (Lv.15-25+), players will need to buy content through Cash Shop for a "fair price". Most "immature" gamers usually will stop playing by then, they do not want to pay. But the Casuals who like LotrO will greatly enjoy this model, as they can buy each Content and take as long as they want to run through the content without being "rushed" because of a monthly sub and wanting to get the most out of their money. Hardcore can use the subscription model instead. It's a win win.
As for the F2P community being less "civilized", it is indeed a prejudice. The best exemple would be WoW's community, despite being P2P, it's not quite mature.
I'll say this again, the payment model doesn't matter. It's the game mechanics that are the most important thing that may break immersion and creates an unfair playing field.
The people that spend hundreds of dollars a week, do so in both PTP and FTP, so what's the difference? That warm feeling inside that your PTP world is fair and balanced is basically a sham if you actually think that's the way things work.
Take Aion for example. The game mechanics seem to have been built with a cash shop in mind with all of the ridiculous money sinks that are involved with mana stones, enchantment stones, and so on. Add on the random numbers generator and you almost have to purchase gold to keep up with the players at the top that do.
Any game built around huge money sinks, RNG, and usually a player run economy will have the same exact issue regardless of payment model. Just because you may not see it or refuse to ackowledge it, doesn't mean it's not there.
LOTRO doesn't seem to be built that way and i think their new model will continue to be a huge success for them, if only for this game.
F2P doesn't necessarily = P2Win. One model could be as simple as play the game free to level x, then pay only for the extra content you want. It doesn't have to include items. In this way, the paying for stuff has no bearing on competition or outdoing the other guy. I think this is ideal. You can play the game for free and get a great feel for whether it's worth it or not to buy or more content (or for that matter, sub up if it's offered). Done this way, I see no downside whatsoever.
Compare that to having to buy the box and then finding out in a week that you don't like the game very much.
Also, to clear up a few posters, some F2P games can indeed be 100% free to play. In DDO, if you are willing to grind out the rep points, you can buy all of the content with them.
Also, to clear up a few posters, some F2P games can indeed be 100% free to play. In DDO, if you are willing to grind out the rep points, you can buy all of the content with them.
Apparently, that won't apply to LotR.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Personally, Im not at all interested in the F2P model: it simply ruins my immersion completely to have a in-your-face approach with real money in a game. A montly sub just kinda runs in the background, nothing intrusive at all (in my opinion).
What I dont understand is why there are so few choices when it comes to payment methods. Couldnt DDO and LOTRO had a choice between a montly sub or pay-per-hour model instead..? For instance:
* You play more than 3 hours per day on average..? --> Montly sub is for you.
* You play less than 2 hours per day on average..? --> Go with pay-per-hour instead.
A model like that would be amazing as I see it. But it would be kinda impossible to nickel-and-dime people with it... so I guess its a no-go...
I absolutely love the f2p model that Turbine has with DDO. I wish some of my favorite older games would do that to increase the pop. and make the game fun again.
Even being free I still won't be playing LOTRO, but I do pop in DDO now and again.
You mean bye bye subscription model except for maybe Blizzard will still use the model for their new mmo as well because unlike Turbine, they actually have a fanbase who plays the game.
You mean bye bye subscription model except for maybe Blizzard will still use the model for their new mmo as well because unlike Turbine, they actually have a fanbase who plays the game.
lol yea, they actually have a fanbase who they can milk for more money, you know buy the game, the expansions, pay the sub, mounts, cosmetic items. etc.
I have no problem with this model...but only as Turbine has designed it. I used to pay for DDO and have tried the F2P setup. It was very well thought out and excellently implemented. The best part is the inclusion of both pay styles. As long as I can get the monthly play with which I was accustomed. I play AOC and FE mostly..but hop around on a third mmo..usually WOW,LOTRO, The CHronicles of Spellborn or DDO figure into that formula but LOTRO is definitely one of the more enjoyable imo and I have more invested in that game so this F2P will work out great. I really DO hope WOW follows suit...imo..it is the game that most warrrants this treatment because of it's constant changeing gear-grind.
The game was doing really well, this is only going to help it
I'm all for Turbine, they're one of the few developers out there releasing quality content right now. Except now you can experience it for free up until angmar ends before you pay for it.
Well it's premature to herald P2P's end, and even if P2P is ending it'll die a very slow death (the death of EQ1 or UO...oh wait, they're both still around!)
But F2P definitely has more potential strengths than weaknesses.
Honestly the common F2P-hate nowadays is no different from the P2P-hate that occurred when the first MMORPGs started using it as payment method. Now look at the loyalty to P2P, heh.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Comments
For me, the subscription model is part of the game, when it's a cash shop.
I have an intense dislike of shopping in an MMORPG with real money. I'ts a HUGE immersion breaker for me.
I want a separate experience in the game, from the real world.
Shopping with real money, seriously damages that experience for me.
15 bucks, and I'm playing a game.
Spend 50 cents inside the gmae in an item shop, and now I don't feel like I'm playing a game anymore, I feel like I'm at the Mall, and for me that's not fun at all.
So I just dont' think it's valid to say "best game no matter what the subscription model" when the subscription model has a real impact on the game itself.
I"m not playing F2P with a cash shop.
Even if EVERYONE is playing a cash shop game. EVERYONE plays WoW, and I don't like that either.
It's either fun for me or not, and cash shop games are not fun.
I don't mind however, LOTRO going cash shop. It was after all, just another WoW clone and I had no real interest in it.
However, I do feel sorry for those that bought a life time sub, and the game was changed on them.
I would feel exactly like the NGE in SWG if I had a lifetime sub that was changed into a cash shop game.
I know they get "free points" to spend, but that would also wreck the game for me. The ONLY way you should buy ANYTHING in the game, is with gold and silver your character earned it the game, period.
That makes it an RPG, not Shopping Online.
This is showing todays mmo devs that not every mmo is capable of surviving as a P2p game.
Games like WoW & Eve are polished and well made enough to hold subscribers while everything else should just go F2p or B2p to be a success.
WAR, Lotro, Aion and AoC would have millions of free accounts here in the west if they went F2p like DDO.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
What can you buy with these "free points"? Armour, weapons, traits? Or are they destiny points?
Well... WAR has the unlimited free access to low levels, and it's quite similar to how DDO and LotRO is doing it, but it's not really working out because people still have to pay monthly for it, and having done the low level stuff myself at launch... there's nothing to really brag about there.
Aion would surely do better, and if it was fully F2P it would do *a lot* better here in the states. AoC stands to gain the most out something like this because it's a great game that just requires the hurdle of entry to be climbed over. The Tortage trials seem to be working good, but not as well as it could/should be. People are still not quite down to download a free trial of a game, compared to a game they suppose would be completely free to play if they can stomach the setbacks. Still, I think the free Tortage thing is working well enough.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I really hope you are correct with this. Monthly subscription fees are a nasty habit that have become accepted as the norm and it's about time that they were phased out. People seem to assume that monthly subscription fees somehow equate to better quality and it clearly isnt true considering the piss poor state of virtually every mmo on the market.
MMOs should be treated exactly like any other computer game. Why should I pay extra every month to play a game I already paid for, especially when the quality of that game is miles below what you can get from a decent single player game which often comes with a multiplayer experience? Most of these mmos arent true multiplayer games anyway. They are just extremely shoddy single player games that rely on text files for entertainment instead of good gameplay with the option to play with others to fight the really poor computer AI.
I also dont play games full time like some addicts do. I have other things to get on with. What if I fancy playing a particular game for a few hours here and there when the fancy takes me? I end up having to pay for a full month even though I dont get a full months worth of play time.
Games companies should charge for individual expansions as extra content is completed but certainly not for fixing or adding features that were missing at launch. Why should we pay ongoing costs to support the development of unfinished games? That effectively makes everyone paying beta testers......for years. Other single and multiplayer games recieve patches and updates on a regular basis without charging its players extra. Server costs are also not an excuse. Does each player on the server cost the games company £10 a month? Obviously not. ArenaNet pisses all over these companies feeble reasons for their uneccessary charges. Yep I really hope monthly subscriptions are on the way out.
I think the OP is being a bit too over enthusiastic about F2P :P
Does any 'serious DDO players' play without paying the subsription?
For me, F2P games mean filled with children and teens whose mom are not paying their subscription... Not really the kind of audience I'm looking for.
Also the most popular P2P game has few times more subscribers than all of those F2P titles combined.
I think AAA MMOs should get a P2P release, then become F2P once their initial development cost has been covered. In the ideal world though, AAA developers would keep improving their digital world or game engine instead of just cashing in their subscription income.
You may be on to something here. Lotro will be a litmus test for this pricing model for sure. Everybody is watching. Of course, new games that adopt this model shouldn't forget that Lotro is also a darn good game as well. It's looking good for Lotro imho.
I hear what you're saying, plus here's the truth: a whole bunch of 'serious gamers' are getting older, getting married and having kids...it's nice to also see them in-game at the same time without breaking the bank. Two of my sons are old enough to play, but too broke to afford a $15 a month sub. This is a perfect solution for us to play together in a top-notch MMO.
No serious gamer will be saying goodbye to paying for a game...I plan on paying for any game I play, even Lotro...but my family really doesn't play enough to merit and additional 3 monthly subcription fees. This might have helped me decide what game I'll be playing!
Just wait until the Hobbit movies come out! Server queues? I predect yes!
You can try. The simple truth is that the F2P model is profitable (i.e. people are willing to pay bit & pieces for content) and it is acceptable to the market.
You can't fight against the trend.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I know they get "free points" to spend, but that would also wreck the game for me. The ONLY way you should buy ANYTHING in the game, is with gold and silver your character earned it the game, period.
That makes it an RPG, not Shopping Online.
Wreck the game for you. Attract back 100 players and some will spend more than you. Sounds like a pretty good trade.
It's sort of funny how all these free to play mmos are so bad I wouldn't play them even if they payed me fifteen bucks a month.
There will always be a place for quality p2p mmos, if anything it is the box sale that is a dinosaur, better to do like CCP and just sell the subscriptions. I wouldn't be surprised if someone starts doing this even for singleplayer games, selling downloadable content seems to work well enough, so selling a subscription of sorts to an ongoing saga is just the next logical step.
Free to play games certainly have a niche to fill though, it's the perfect model for ad supported crapware, at least until the advertisers realize that penniless kids isn't the most desirable group to target with ads. But it is also a good model for venerable old games that are nearing their end of life anyway. Once it becomes obvious that it's becoming hard to sell a dated game it's a nobrainer to make it "free", it lowers expectations, makes players less demanding and bolsters the population. And there are always a few suckers who gladly borrow mom's creditcard to get a special pet or whatever.
Hm, I am neutral in this question. I don't generally mind alternative payment models, esp. since it means to try out a game and then see if it's good. But it does not seem all daisies and roses either. For instance, how big is the gap between F2P and VIP players in LOTRO? Will I end up paying as before, because the free content is more or less trashy? I mean, not really trashy, since LOTRO is ok, but well, all the really cool stuff is for payment? And then, monthly fee always seemed to work as a certain barrier to a certain type of gamer... the less dedicated and also often less civilized sort of fellow, shall we say. I mean, ok, maybe that's a prejudice. I don't like the doomsaying of some, but I am still on the fence whether or not this is really good.
It might be we pay considerably more in the end, even. Especially people who are, shall we say, weak willed and spent tons of money in shops for new haircuts, robes and emotes and whatnot.
P2P games won't be removed. There are plenty of people who specifically play P2P games because of their ideology on them. In other words, some people believe when a game is P2P, the quality is better, there are less children, etc.
What will happen however is the diminishment of many smaller P2P MMO's. This is of course healthy for the MMO industry, because we will have more quality P2P MMO's, and only the strongest will survive. Basically, people won't even bother making these shitty P2P MMO's, because the majority of the audience will have shrunk. So even if a few people remain for these poor quality games, they will not be enough to keep the game on it's feet. That doesn't mean those shitty P2P MMO's won't become F2P. There is no doubt this model will become more popular, but like it's been said, few will survive.
The direct impact of all of this will be fewer good quality MMOs.
There needs to be a line drawn also between F2P games and F2P games with microtransactions. There is a major difference, and many people fail to see this. Some people high on their horses believe that all F2P games are cheap and horrible quality, this is not true however in many cases. They need to see success where it's been given, notably with GW and LotRO.
There will be no real difference between using the Cash Shop or using the Sub model. You are restricted in LotrO after level 15-25 I believe (quests are locked for exemple). That's where the Free Part ends, though you may still grind up to level 50. At that point (Lv.15-25+), players will need to buy content through Cash Shop for a "fair price". Most "immature" gamers usually will stop playing by then, they do not want to pay. But the Casuals who like LotrO will greatly enjoy this model, as they can buy each Content and take as long as they want to run through the content without being "rushed" because of a monthly sub and wanting to get the most out of their money. Hardcore can use the subscription model instead. It's a win win.
As for the F2P community being less "civilized", it is indeed a prejudice. The best exemple would be WoW's community, despite being P2P, it's not quite mature.
I'll say this again, the payment model doesn't matter. It's the game mechanics that are the most important thing that may break immersion and creates an unfair playing field.
The people that spend hundreds of dollars a week, do so in both PTP and FTP, so what's the difference? That warm feeling inside that your PTP world is fair and balanced is basically a sham if you actually think that's the way things work.
Take Aion for example. The game mechanics seem to have been built with a cash shop in mind with all of the ridiculous money sinks that are involved with mana stones, enchantment stones, and so on. Add on the random numbers generator and you almost have to purchase gold to keep up with the players at the top that do.
Any game built around huge money sinks, RNG, and usually a player run economy will have the same exact issue regardless of payment model. Just because you may not see it or refuse to ackowledge it, doesn't mean it's not there.
LOTRO doesn't seem to be built that way and i think their new model will continue to be a huge success for them, if only for this game.
I'll throw my two cents in.
F2P doesn't necessarily = P2Win. One model could be as simple as play the game free to level x, then pay only for the extra content you want. It doesn't have to include items. In this way, the paying for stuff has no bearing on competition or outdoing the other guy. I think this is ideal. You can play the game for free and get a great feel for whether it's worth it or not to buy or more content (or for that matter, sub up if it's offered). Done this way, I see no downside whatsoever.
Compare that to having to buy the box and then finding out in a week that you don't like the game very much.
Also, to clear up a few posters, some F2P games can indeed be 100% free to play. In DDO, if you are willing to grind out the rep points, you can buy all of the content with them.
Apparently, that won't apply to LotR.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Personally, Im not at all interested in the F2P model: it simply ruins my immersion completely to have a in-your-face approach with real money in a game. A montly sub just kinda runs in the background, nothing intrusive at all (in my opinion).
What I dont understand is why there are so few choices when it comes to payment methods. Couldnt DDO and LOTRO had a choice between a montly sub or pay-per-hour model instead..? For instance:
* You play more than 3 hours per day on average..? --> Montly sub is for you.
* You play less than 2 hours per day on average..? --> Go with pay-per-hour instead.
A model like that would be amazing as I see it. But it would be kinda impossible to nickel-and-dime people with it... so I guess its a no-go...
I absolutely love the f2p model that Turbine has with DDO. I wish some of my favorite older games would do that to increase the pop. and make the game fun again.
Even being free I still won't be playing LOTRO, but I do pop in DDO now and again.
You mean bye bye subscription model except for maybe Blizzard will still use the model for their new mmo as well because unlike Turbine, they actually have a fanbase who plays the game.
lol yea, they actually have a fanbase who they can milk for more money, you know buy the game, the expansions, pay the sub, mounts, cosmetic items. etc.
I have no problem with this model...but only as Turbine has designed it. I used to pay for DDO and have tried the F2P setup. It was very well thought out and excellently implemented. The best part is the inclusion of both pay styles. As long as I can get the monthly play with which I was accustomed. I play AOC and FE mostly..but hop around on a third mmo..usually WOW,LOTRO, The CHronicles of Spellborn or DDO figure into that formula but LOTRO is definitely one of the more enjoyable imo and I have more invested in that game so this F2P will work out great. I really DO hope WOW follows suit...imo..it is the game that most warrrants this treatment because of it's constant changeing gear-grind.
edit - wrong thread, sup tabs
The game was doing really well, this is only going to help it
I'm all for Turbine, they're one of the few developers out there releasing quality content right now. Except now you can experience it for free up until angmar ends before you pay for it.
Well it's premature to herald P2P's end, and even if P2P is ending it'll die a very slow death (the death of EQ1 or UO...oh wait, they're both still around!)
But F2P definitely has more potential strengths than weaknesses.
Honestly the common F2P-hate nowadays is no different from the P2P-hate that occurred when the first MMORPGs started using it as payment method. Now look at the loyalty to P2P, heh.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver