People are so scared of change, it amuses me everytime i see it.
Personally, I LOATHE when I am sold something under the pretense that is is a certain type of product and will perform in a certain way, and then the company I bought it from changes it into something else entirely. I mean....that ISN'T the product I purchased. I have a RIGHT to be irritated by that. When you are the customer....that feels like you were presented with a classic old "bait and switch"....the company shows the potential customer ONE thing, and then ultimately presents them with a product that is NOT what they were sold on and NOT what they thought they were paying for. FEAR has nothing to do with that. When I buy oranges....I want fucking oranges. Don't tell me you're selling me oranges, and let me sign up on a plan to buy oranges and then turn around and tell me, "You know....we've decided that pineapples are better....so from now on, that money you decided to invest in oranges, because you love oranges....well....we're going to give you pineapples from now on." And I FUCKING HATE PINEAPPLES! I didn't buy pineapples and I don't WANT pineapples....I want the damn ORANGES I paid for!
But you didn't purchase a product, you purchased a service which is what all MMO's are. Many people get the incorrect assumption that when they buy an MMO in a box off the shelf, it somehow gives them ownership of the game as if it were a single player game when in fact all you are doing is purchasing access to a service.
Also, your analogy about changing apples to pineapples is off base. It would be more like them offering golden delicious apples originally and then giving you the option to order granny smith apples instead. If you like your original apples you can keep buying them as before but if you don't can still enjoy a different type of apple. Either way your still getting an apple.
Drastically changing a game that over a quarter of a million people are playing is NOT.
Just ask SOE.
People like you are simply too short-sighted to see the big picture.
Except that the game itself hasn't changed. The only thing Turbine have done is apply the DDO price model to LOTRO.
Also, the NGE comparisons are still weak. This change to LOTRO has nothing in common with the NGE and never will, despite all the hysterical bleating saying that this justliketheNGEOMGWTF. It's nothing like it at all, so ditching the hyperbole would be a wise idea.
Funny thing, reading this and other threads, is that most actual paying players don't like/want the new F2P and are going to quit; funnier thing still is that people not actually playing (and paying) and now rejoicing for Lotro going F2P because it'll multiply its income are then the first to declare that "now I'll be able to play Lotro without spending a cent ! Woot !" (there are several post like this in this thread alone).
That's a bit of contradiction in my eyes but nonetheless...... Maybe (maybe....) it'll duplicate DDO success and somewhere a suit will be able to tell his stockholders that this move granted them 1300% more players (and just a fraction in effective income and profit but it's easy to hide that under a ton of excel reports and PR stuff). And I'm not so delusional not to see that this is the trend we're going to. More delusional than me, however, are those claiming that this F2P conversione will mean more quality expansions or game development. Your only expansions will be in the form of winged-pink-ponies (just 5$/€ for our VIP players !) or Santa Costumes or mini-Xpac aiming at selling even more trinkets and necessary-to-play items.
I think most of the discussion is moot because here we have two totally different and not compatible conceptions of gaming.
Gaming is a hobby and we all can agree on that. Then, as for any hobby, you have those that try to invest time and effort in it, in becoming better at it and gaining some sort of accomplishment. Even as casual players. It's quality that matters. That's the folk generally (not all but most of) that prefers the P2P form. Then there're those that try a game ("Free" of course) and then jump to another and then to another one and so on as they like and that find their sense of accomplishment in going farther and farther without spending (or, conversely, spending a little fortune on it) even on static and immovable games (There're other 100s like that one anyway). That's the F2P form. I'm doing a generalization of course and no offense is intended for anyone. Then there're exceptions everywhere.
For me, I'll retreat to my EVE online sieged fortress as barbarians cry havoc outside and shall see. It'll be interesting to see, for example, the form that future AAA games like SWTOR will use with their 150millions $ of investment to repay.....
Drastically changing a game that over a quarter of a million people are playing is NOT.
Just ask SOE.
People like you are simply too short-sighted to see the big picture.
Except that the game itself hasn't changed. The only thing Turbine have done is apply the DDO price model to LOTRO.
Also, the NGE comparisons are still weak. This change to LOTRO has nothing in common with the NGE and never will, despite all the hysterical bleating saying that this justliketheNGEOMGWTF. It's nothing like it at all, so ditching the hyperbole would be a wise idea.
It's enough of a drastic change that the current player base feels screwed over, and the majority are leaving.
I'd say that qualifies the comparison.
As I've said before...when's the last time you heard anything about Spellborne?? They announced that they were going F2P, and the game dropped off the radar. Everyone quit.
Like I said....I've already dropped my LOTRO sub, and moved on to AoC. Entire kinships are doing the same thing. LOTRO may end up with a vast playerbase to replace the one their losing, but it will be a playerbase who isn't playing $15 per month.
They're tossing out their customers in an effort to draw a completely different set of customers. Once again, the NGE comparison is validated.
Love it or hate it, the fact is that the F2P model is the wave of the future in this genre. Mark my words - ALL of the major titles in a few years will be using this model.
Pretty much.
Get used to this hybrid F2P/subscription model that LOTRO is using. You're going to see it a lot in other games in the future. It's the way that games are going now.
And IF that happens, then I and many, many others will not be playing MMORPGs anymore.
But I don't think it will.
Your little pet AoC will be one of the first ones to jump. Especially after they see what revenue increase F2P will do to Lotro.
DB
LOL....I doubt it, bud.
Besides, AoC already has an "unlimited trial", where players can play Tortage (up to lvl 20) and surrounding areas all they want for free. Seems to be working fine.
And...I highly doubt that LOTRO will see a revenue increase. In fact, I'm betting on the opposite...but time will tell there.
I mean...Turbine / WB did just give the finger to 300k players. That ALWAYS has good results, right??
Edit: F2P models are for games that are tanking...not games that are doing well, and growing. On that note, I wouldn't be surprised to see your beloved Fallen Earth offering crafting recipes in an item mall before too long here.
Funny thing, reading this and other threads, is that most actual paying players don't like/want the new F2P and are going to quit; funnier thing still is that people not actually playing (and paying) and now rejoicing for Lotro going F2P because it'll multiply its income are then the first to declare that "now I'll be able to play Lotro without spending a cent ! Woot !" (there are several post like this in this thread alone).
followign this thread that wasnt' my take at all. Seems to me that most player who are playing LOTRO either like the idea or are in a wait and see mode.
Even looking at my guild's forums it seems that though there is some concern but I have only seen evidence that one player might quit.
In any case we'll have a better handle on what is going to happen after the middle of June when we get to see this store of theirs.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
LOTRO will follow Star Wars Galaxies in that chart. Switching over from P2P to P2W is never good for a health game.
No it won't.
It's going to happen exactly as DDO.
LOTRO will lose subs but will retain a good amount of it's subscriber base because the average person who plays these games just doesn't care, and they will garner a good many free to play players. Some will be good and might subscribe (i'm pretty sure we'll be seeing threads started by players who never would have tried the game but becuase they tried it they liked it) and there will be a number of very trying people who also come into the game.
The game will slowly lose the charm of the first few expansions and updates and there will be more "SALE - new hat and potion starter packs" items creeping into the game.
However, for those who can overlook that stuff there will be quite a lot more content coming down the pike on a more regular basis.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
It's enough of a drastic change that the current player base feels screwed over, and the majority are leaving.
I'd say that qualifies the comparison.
Nope. Not at all.
Unless LOTRO suddenly changes the entire game -- classes and races available, game mechanics, etc. -- it's not ever going to be anything like the NGE. Ever.
People leave games all the time over changes they don't like. That doesn't automatically make every change to a game analagous to what happened to SWG.
Love it or hate it, the fact is that the F2P model is the wave of the future in this genre. Mark my words - ALL of the major titles in a few years will be using this model.
Pretty much.
Get used to this hybrid F2P/subscription model that LOTRO is using. You're going to see it a lot in other games in the future. It's the way that games are going now.
And IF that happens, then I and many, many others will not be playing MMORPGs anymore.
But I don't think it will.
Your little pet AoC will be one of the first ones to jump. Especially after they see what revenue increase F2P will do to Lotro.
DB
LOL....I doubt it, bud.
Besides, AoC already has an "unlimited trial", where players can play Tortage (up to lvl 20) and surrounding areas all they want for free. Seems to be working fine.
And...I highly doubt that LOTRO will see a revenue increase. In fact, I'm betting on the opposite...but time will tell there.
I mean...Turbine / WB did just give the finger to 300k players. That ALWAYS has good results, right??
LOL you actually think the unlimited trial for AoC is comparable to this new buisness model? You really are living in denial if you dont think Funcom is planning something simillar right now.
WB/Turbine just made 300k of their players very happy for breathing new life into LotrO and making sure we have a bright future for a long time to come. Maybe AoC should just do another server merge?
If DDO increased revenue with over 500% and trippled their subscribers, imagine what it could do with LotrO!
We all know that Funcom have done alot of stupid things in the past but they are not so stupid that they would miss an opportunity like this.
But you keep on living in your bubble!
I wouldn't call it "denial"...I'd call it having done business with Funcom for close to a decade now, and getting to know their business style.
No, I don't expect AoC to go F2p for years, and when it finally does, I expect it to follow the same lines as Anarchy Online, with advertisements on the loading screens and no expansion content without a subscription.
And WB / Turbine made their customers happy, eh?? Oh So THAT'S why all the kinships are disbanding and moving to other games....they're HAPPY.
And this right here: "If DDO increased revenue with over 500% and trippled their subscribers, imagine what it could do with LotrO!" makes me laugh. You really DON'T understand, do you??
DDO was DYING. There was ONLY one way to go....up. Yeah, getting people to play a game that no one is playing is a good thing.
Drastically changing a game that over a quarter of a million people are playing is NOT.
Just ask SOE.
People like you are simply too short-sighted to see the big picture.
haha so Funcom doesnt have a cash shop in AO?
"Durham, USA – October 12, 2007 – Funcom has now launched the virtual item sales in Anarchy Online. In yet another progressive move from Funcom, the players on Rubi-Ka are now able to purchase sets of points which can be used to acquire virtual items inside the game. The first virtual items introduced with the program come packed inside a new mini-expansion. Amongst other things the new pack includes hover-bikes, hover-boards, social clothing, pets and a luxury apartment."
Well since its atleast going partially free to play I don't see what all the fuss is. No one has tried their game yet so don't complain. Maybe it will be good for the game maybe it won't, but either way not giving this game a try is in my opinion a dumb move. I'll definitly be dusting off my old champion and hunter and seeing what the new free and pay to play options have done to middle earth.
"Durham, USA – October 12, 2007 – Funcom has now launched the virtual item sales in Anarchy Online. In yet another progressive move from Funcom, the players on Rubi-Ka are now able to purchase sets of points which can be used to acquire virtual items inside the game. The first virtual items introduced with the program come packed inside a new mini-expansion. Amongst other things the new pack includes hover-bikes, hover-boards, social clothing, pets and a luxury apartment."
True. And, just like Turbine, if they've had success with offering it in one game, they'll have no problem doing it with another one if they decide it's worth it. I wouldn't be shocked at all if Funcom decided to introduce a cash shop in AoC at some point.
Honestly -- people should just expect these kinds of hybrid payment models in the future. Developers are looking for anything that gets them out of the $15/month rut in order to make money off their games, especially when you think about how expensive they are to develop now. Cash shops are just one way of doing it, and they're not going away anytime soon. Neither are these F2P/P2P hybrid payment models, like what Turbine is using.
This seems to be true, and I am thankful for it. Soon you will see me loitering around with a lute in hand, and hoping not paying a dime to do so.
So will at least 30,000 other chucklefucks playing elves named "Rikky Martian" smashing the "1" button FURIOUSLY while teabagging a hobbit in just about every starter area. Hope you enjoyed the community while it lasted guys!
It's easy to put people on ignore if they have names you don't like, or are spamming/spewing crap repeatedly. That's what I do.
People are so scared of change, it amuses me everytime i see it.
Personally, I LOATHE when I am sold something under the pretense that is is a certain type of product and will perform in a certain way, and then the company I bought it from changes it into something else entirely. I mean....that ISN'T the product I purchased. I have a RIGHT to be irritated by that. When you are the customer....that feels like you were presented with a classic old "bait and switch"....the company shows the potential customer ONE thing, and then ultimately presents them with a product that is NOT what they were sold on and NOT what they thought they were paying for. FEAR has nothing to do with that. When I buy oranges....I want fucking oranges. Don't tell me you're selling me oranges, and let me sign up on a plan to buy oranges and then turn around and tell me, "You know....we've decided that pineapples are better....so from now on, that money you decided to invest in oranges, because you love oranges....well....we're going to give you pineapples from now on." And I FUCKING HATE PINEAPPLES! I didn't buy pineapples and I don't WANT pineapples....I want the damn ORANGES I paid for!
But you didn't purchase a product, you purchased a service which is what all MMO's are. Many people get the incorrect assumption that when they buy an MMO in a box off the shelf, it somehow gives them ownership of the game as if it were a single player game when in fact all you are doing is purchasing access to a service.
Also, your analogy about changing apples to pineapples is off base. It would be more like them offering golden delicious apples originally and then giving you the option to order granny smith apples instead. If you like your original apples you can keep buying them as before but if you don't can still enjoy a different type of apple. Either way your still getting an apple.
Actually.....no. I can't go back and play vanilla WoW. It's not an option. I can't go back and play UO as it was originally either, although i think there should be options to DO just that. I know a lot of people that would play on a Vanilla WoW Only server.
As far as with LotRO....they sold a PAY TO PLAY MMO. It does sound like, to me, that they are doing a FAR better job providing OPTIONS for players, however, at least from what they're saying...it appears so. It doesn't SOUND like the game itself will change much, although...you know as well as I do....the community WILL. And one of the greatest things ABOUT LotRO was its community. So people do have a right to be pissed. My fruit analogy was more directed at WoW and other games that change SO MUCH over the course of time that they're not even recognizable as the same game other than by the art style alone.
And personally...I don't think WoW is "another kind of apple" than what was first released. It's an entirely different FRUIT now...like I said. I paid for an orange "delivery service" (if you must)....now THEY decide that I'm going to get pineapples instead. Oh sure....they'll still deliver them, but it's not going to be the fruit delivery service I signed up for, because now....THEY are deciding what fruit I should pay for every month. So....I moved to a new orchard. Fuck Blizzard. I don't want my fruit having cross server "tools" and crap like that. I want the community the game started with....probably the same thing that most LotRO players will be longing for by about this time next year. A pity really.
And yes....I KNOW my analogies are always "flawed" (to the snobbier folks around here). They're not meant to be perfect, they're meant to explain an emotion, an opinion, or a perception that I have. They're not going to be perfectly crafted collegiate studies in analogy....
So....bottom line is....we just disagree. No biggie.
"Durham, USA – October 12, 2007 – Funcom has now launched the virtual item sales in Anarchy Online. In yet another progressive move from Funcom, the players on Rubi-Ka are now able to purchase sets of points which can be used to acquire virtual items inside the game. The first virtual items introduced with the program come packed inside a new mini-expansion. Amongst other things the new pack includes hover-bikes, hover-boards, social clothing, pets and a luxury apartment."
True. And, just like Turbine, if they've had success with offering it in one game, they'll have no problem doing it with another one if they decide it's worth it. I wouldn't be shocked at all if Funcom decided to introduce a cash shop in AoC at some point.
Honestly -- people should just expect these kinds of hybrid payment models in the future. Developers are looking for anything that gets them out of the $15/month rut in order to make money off their games, especially when you think about how expensive they are to develop now. Cash shops are just one way of doing it, and they're not going away anytime soon. Neither are these F2P/P2P hybrid payment models, like what Turbine is using.
Anarchy online was already ANCIENT when these things were introduced. Not to mention the fact that none of them have any effect on gameplay at all.....they are just transportation and social clothing with no stats.
AO has been running since 2001.....at this point in it's age, something had to be done to generate enough revenue to keep the game afloat, and finance it's engine upgrade.
THis is not the same as turning a healthy game into a cash cow. LOTRO was doing fine.
Also, if AoC ever follows the same route as AO, it will be years from now, once TSW has launched and AoC's subs are not enough to keep the game alive.
F2P / Item shops are life support for dying games. A way to prolong the death of the game, so that the last few members of the die hard community can continue to enjoy their game for as long as possible.
What WB / Turbine are doing to LOTRO, and what Icarus did to FE today, is downright stupid, and showcases their ignorance and greed.
"Durham, USA – October 12, 2007 – Funcom has now launched the virtual item sales in Anarchy Online. In yet another progressive move from Funcom, the players on Rubi-Ka are now able to purchase sets of points which can be used to acquire virtual items inside the game. The first virtual items introduced with the program come packed inside a new mini-expansion. Amongst other things the new pack includes hover-bikes, hover-boards, social clothing, pets and a luxury apartment."
True. And, just like Turbine, if they've had success with offering it in one game, they'll have no problem doing it with another one if they decide it's worth it. I wouldn't be shocked at all if Funcom decided to introduce a cash shop in AoC at some point.
Honestly -- people should just expect these kinds of hybrid payment models in the future. Developers are looking for anything that gets them out of the $15/month rut in order to make money off their games, especially when you think about how expensive they are to develop now. Cash shops are just one way of doing it, and they're not going away anytime soon. Neither are these F2P/P2P hybrid payment models, like what Turbine is using.
Anarchy online was already ANCIENT when these things were introduced. Not to mention the fact that none of them have any effect on gameplay at all.....they are just transportation and social clothing with no stats.
AO has been running since 2001.....at this point in it's age, something had to be done to generate enough revenue to keep the game afloat, and finance it's engine upgrade.
THis is not the same as turning a healthy game into a cash cow. LOTRO was doing fine.
Also, if AoC ever follows the same route as AO, it will be years from now, once TSW has launched and AoC's subs are not enough to keep the game alive.
F2P / Item shops are life support for dying games. A way to prolong the death of the game, so that the last few members of the die hard community can continue to enjoy their game for as long as possible.
What WB / Turbine are doing to LOTRO, and what Icarus did to FE today, is downright stupid, and showcases their ignorance and greed.
So all your arguments have been proven wrong and now you back pedal and try to invent new stuff that has nothing to do with this...
Someone at Turbine said that monthly subscription is the number one reason why people are not playing a MMO. removing that obstacle seems like a pretty smart move then.
Funny how everyone who are upset upset about this are the people who are NOT playing LotrO. Is it fear or jealousy perhaps?
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
I play the game, I dont like F2P, just wanted to burst that bubble.
The main reason Lotro has low subs is because people have to pay a monthly fee? Err right, thats what funds the game to the high standards it has maintained since launch. F2P will mean less customer support and development in the long run.
Love it or hate it, the fact is that the F2P model is the wave of the future in this genre. Mark my words - ALL of the major titles in a few years will be using this model.
Pretty much.
Get used to this hybrid F2P/subscription model that LOTRO is using. You're going to see it a lot in other games in the future. It's the way that games are going now.
And IF that happens, then I and many, many others will not be playing MMORPGs anymore.
But I don't think it will.
Your little pet AoC will be one of the first ones to jump. Especially after they see what revenue increase F2P will do to Lotro.
DB
LOL....I doubt it, bud.
Besides, AoC already has an "unlimited trial", where players can play Tortage (up to lvl 20) and surrounding areas all they want for free. Seems to be working fine.
And...I highly doubt that LOTRO will see a revenue increase. In fact, I'm betting on the opposite...but time will tell there.
I mean...Turbine / WB did just give the finger to 300k players. That ALWAYS has good results, right??
Edit: F2P models are for games that are tanking...not games that are doing well, and growing. On that note, I wouldn't be surprised to see your beloved Fallen Earth offering crafting recipes in an item mall before too long here.
I hope you DO realize, that this only underlines my sentiment? Almost all games are going this direction. I give AoC maximum 6 months.
BTW, Lotro's F2P option is precisely what AoC's unlimited trial is: an unlimited trial with VERY limited availability (max level 25, no mounts, only 3 regions etc.)
You keep confirming all my ideas. By all means, continue!
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
"Durham, USA – October 12, 2007 – Funcom has now launched the virtual item sales in Anarchy Online. In yet another progressive move from Funcom, the players on Rubi-Ka are now able to purchase sets of points which can be used to acquire virtual items inside the game. The first virtual items introduced with the program come packed inside a new mini-expansion. Amongst other things the new pack includes hover-bikes, hover-boards, social clothing, pets and a luxury apartment."
True. And, just like Turbine, if they've had success with offering it in one game, they'll have no problem doing it with another one if they decide it's worth it. I wouldn't be shocked at all if Funcom decided to introduce a cash shop in AoC at some point.
Honestly -- people should just expect these kinds of hybrid payment models in the future. Developers are looking for anything that gets them out of the $15/month rut in order to make money off their games, especially when you think about how expensive they are to develop now. Cash shops are just one way of doing it, and they're not going away anytime soon. Neither are these F2P/P2P hybrid payment models, like what Turbine is using.
Anarchy online was already ANCIENT when these things were introduced. Not to mention the fact that none of them have any effect on gameplay at all.....they are just transportation and social clothing with no stats.
AO has been running since 2001.....at this point in it's age, something had to be done to generate enough revenue to keep the game afloat, and finance it's engine upgrade.
THis is not the same as turning a healthy game into a cash cow. LOTRO was doing fine.
Also, if AoC ever follows the same route as AO, it will be years from now, once TSW has launched and AoC's subs are not enough to keep the game alive.
F2P / Item shops are life support for dying games. A way to prolong the death of the game, so that the last few members of the die hard community can continue to enjoy their game for as long as possible.
What WB / Turbine are doing to LOTRO, and what Icarus did to FE today, is downright stupid, and showcases their ignorance and greed.
So all your arguments have been proven wrong and now you back pedal and try to invent new stuff that has nothing to do with this...
Someone at Turbine said that monthly subscription is the number one reason why people are not playing a MMO. removing that obstacle seems like a pretty smart move then.
Funny how everyone who are upset upset about this are the people who are NOT playing LotrO. Is it fear or jealousy perhaps?
What the HELL are you talking about??
a: proven wrong? where?? I was talking about AoC, not AO to begin with. And for that matter, if AoC were going to go F2P, they would have done so already, when the game was struggling for subs...not now that it's making a surging come-back, and soaking up the exodus from LOTRO.
b: Back-tracking?? "Inventing new stuff"? WTF are you on about??
"Someone at Turbine said...." Ummm.....sub fees aren't stopping the 12 million people playing WoW are they?? Or all the people playing other sub-based games? The F2P model is NOTHING new. There are COUNTLESS games listed on this very site that use it. If F2P is such a "miracle cure" for MMORPG gaming, then why is it that the MOST PLAYED GAMES are all sub based??
Look at the evidence. Look at the history. The FACTS in front of your face.
You know WHY the people upset about this whole thing aren't playing LOTRO?? Because we all just cancelled our subs, that's why.
Your little pet AoC will be one of the first ones to jump. Especially after they see what revenue increase F2P will do to Lotro.
DB
LOL....I doubt it, bud.
Besides, AoC already has an "unlimited trial", where players can play Tortage (up to lvl 20) and surrounding areas all they want for free. Seems to be working fine.
And...I highly doubt that LOTRO will see a revenue increase. In fact, I'm betting on the opposite...but time will tell there.
I mean...Turbine / WB did just give the finger to 300k players. That ALWAYS has good results, right??
Edit: F2P models are for games that are tanking...not games that are doing well, and growing. On that note, I wouldn't be surprised to see your beloved Fallen Earth offering crafting recipes in an item mall before too long here.
I hope you DO realize, that this only underlines my sentiment? Almost all games are going this direction. I give AoC maximum 6 months.
BTW, Lotro's F2P option is precisely what AoC's unlimited trial is: an unlimited trial with VERY limited availability (max level 25, no mounts, only 3 regions etc.)
You keep confirming all my ideas. By all means, continue!
DB
No, not at all. If AoC were going to do any of this crap, they would have done it already, when the game was struggling.
And as we can see from AO, Funcom understands the correct way to implement these kinds of things when they need to anyway: Base game for free, nothing in the item shop with stats....IE only cosmetic items that have NO impact on the game.
Even in AoC's "unlimited trial", it's just Tortage and the surrounding areas. It's a classic MMORPG trial system, but without any time limit.
The difference here is, there's no little "BUY NOW!" icons on quest NPCs and zones......you want to play the rest of the game, you buy it, and sub. There's ONE game to buy, not multiple tiers....there's ONE sub to pay...not multiple tiers.
And as we can see from AO, Funcom understands the correct way to implement these kinds of things when they need to anyway: Base game for free, nothing in the item shop with stats....IE only cosmetic items that have NO impact on the game.
Even in AoC's "unlimited trial", it's just Tortage and the surrounding areas. It's a classic MMORPG trial system, but without any time limit.
Which is...wait for it... the exact same system that Turbine has here, and which you're whining about.
So in other words, it's okay for Funcom to do it, but as soon as Turbine does the same thing, it's the end of the world?
And as we can see from AO, Funcom understands the correct way to implement these kinds of things when they need to anyway: Base game for free, nothing in the item shop with stats....IE only cosmetic items that have NO impact on the game.
Even in AoC's "unlimited trial", it's just Tortage and the surrounding areas. It's a classic MMORPG trial system, but without any time limit.
Which is...wait for it... the exact same system that Turbine has here, and which you're whining about.
So in other words, it's okay for Funcom to do it, but as soon as Turbine does the same thing, it's the end of the world?
No, it is NOT the exact same system. they're not even close.
Anarchy Online is not carved up into purchasable segments...there are no purchasable quests, or zones. You either buy the game and play the expansions, or you don't, and only play the base game. It's cut and dry.
The base game for fr00bs (what we call the free players) is financed by in-game advertisements, which flow nicely with the game world, being that most of the game world is futuristic city-scape.
There is no "if you want this quest, you have to pay a micro-fee. If you want this zone, you have to pay a micro-fee."
You either by the game, or don't.
The difference is that AO's system is simply a way for people to play the base game for free...TRUELY for free. LOTRO's system is a way to get people to spend a fortune on micro transactions to unlock content....IE, a money-grab.
Your little pet AoC will be one of the first ones to jump. Especially after they see what revenue increase F2P will do to Lotro.
DB
LOL....I doubt it, bud.
Besides, AoC already has an "unlimited trial", where players can play Tortage (up to lvl 20) and surrounding areas all they want for free. Seems to be working fine.
And...I highly doubt that LOTRO will see a revenue increase. In fact, I'm betting on the opposite...but time will tell there.
I mean...Turbine / WB did just give the finger to 300k players. That ALWAYS has good results, right??
Edit: F2P models are for games that are tanking...not games that are doing well, and growing. On that note, I wouldn't be surprised to see your beloved Fallen Earth offering crafting recipes in an item mall before too long here.
I hope you DO realize, that this only underlines my sentiment? Almost all games are going this direction. I give AoC maximum 6 months.
BTW, Lotro's F2P option is precisely what AoC's unlimited trial is: an unlimited trial with VERY limited availability (max level 25, no mounts, only 3 regions etc.)
You keep confirming all my ideas. By all means, continue!
DB
No, not at all. If AoC were going to do any of this crap, they would have done it already, when the game was struggling.
And as we can see from AO, Funcom understands the correct way to implement these kinds of things when they need to anyway : Base game for free, nothing in the item shop with stats....IE only cosmetic items that have NO impact on the game. -
You DO know, that it will be exactly the same in Lotro? No, you obviously don't Base game for free, nothing in the item shop with stats...
Even in AoC's "unlimited trial", it's just Tortage and the surrounding areas. It's a classic MMORPG trial system, but without any time limit.
Lotro's unlimited trial is just the 3 starting areas. It's a classic MMORPG trial system, but without any time limit.
The difference here is, there's no little "BUY NOW!" icons on quest NPCs and zones......you want to play the rest of the game, you buy it, and sub. There's ONE game to buy, not multiple tiers....there's ONE sub to pay...not multiple tiers.
The difference between Lotro's future F2P option and the unchangedsubscriber/lifer option is that for the latter there's no little "BUY NOW!" icons on quest NPCs and zones......you want to play the rest of the game, you buy it, and sub....there's ONE sub to pay...not multiple tiers.
Oh no, wait. If you are a lifer or a founder, you can use your Extra bonus points to pay for expansions -instead of RL money. So it's cheaper for the Lotro subber than for an AoC subber to have all content. Hmmm....
No nickle-and-diming the customers to death.
Yep, none of that in Lotro, except for that with AoC, to pay for extensions, your only option is to pay with real money for extensions, unlike Lotro's founder and lifetimer options.
Again, I strongly advise you to actually read Turbine's announcement before you open yourself to even more frustration and embarrasment
Or, you can still continue, i already said I am enjoying it, didn't expect that you actually will continue
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Comments
But you didn't purchase a product, you purchased a service which is what all MMO's are. Many people get the incorrect assumption that when they buy an MMO in a box off the shelf, it somehow gives them ownership of the game as if it were a single player game when in fact all you are doing is purchasing access to a service.
Also, your analogy about changing apples to pineapples is off base. It would be more like them offering golden delicious apples originally and then giving you the option to order granny smith apples instead. If you like your original apples you can keep buying them as before but if you don't can still enjoy a different type of apple. Either way your still getting an apple.
Except that the game itself hasn't changed. The only thing Turbine have done is apply the DDO price model to LOTRO.
Also, the NGE comparisons are still weak. This change to LOTRO has nothing in common with the NGE and never will, despite all the hysterical bleating saying that this justliketheNGEOMGWTF. It's nothing like it at all, so ditching the hyperbole would be a wise idea.
Funny thing, reading this and other threads, is that most actual paying players don't like/want the new F2P and are going to quit; funnier thing still is that people not actually playing (and paying) and now rejoicing for Lotro going F2P because it'll multiply its income are then the first to declare that "now I'll be able to play Lotro without spending a cent ! Woot !" (there are several post like this in this thread alone).
That's a bit of contradiction in my eyes but nonetheless...... Maybe (maybe....) it'll duplicate DDO success and somewhere a suit will be able to tell his stockholders that this move granted them 1300% more players (and just a fraction in effective income and profit but it's easy to hide that under a ton of excel reports and PR stuff). And I'm not so delusional not to see that this is the trend we're going to. More delusional than me, however, are those claiming that this F2P conversione will mean more quality expansions or game development. Your only expansions will be in the form of winged-pink-ponies (just 5$/€ for our VIP players !) or Santa Costumes or mini-Xpac aiming at selling even more trinkets and necessary-to-play items.
I think most of the discussion is moot because here we have two totally different and not compatible conceptions of gaming.
Gaming is a hobby and we all can agree on that. Then, as for any hobby, you have those that try to invest time and effort in it, in becoming better at it and gaining some sort of accomplishment. Even as casual players. It's quality that matters. That's the folk generally (not all but most of) that prefers the P2P form. Then there're those that try a game ("Free" of course) and then jump to another and then to another one and so on as they like and that find their sense of accomplishment in going farther and farther without spending (or, conversely, spending a little fortune on it) even on static and immovable games (There're other 100s like that one anyway). That's the F2P form. I'm doing a generalization of course and no offense is intended for anyone. Then there're exceptions everywhere.
For me, I'll retreat to my EVE online sieged fortress as barbarians cry havoc outside and shall see. It'll be interesting to see, for example, the form that future AAA games like SWTOR will use with their 150millions $ of investment to repay.....
It's enough of a drastic change that the current player base feels screwed over, and the majority are leaving.
I'd say that qualifies the comparison.
As I've said before...when's the last time you heard anything about Spellborne?? They announced that they were going F2P, and the game dropped off the radar. Everyone quit.
Like I said....I've already dropped my LOTRO sub, and moved on to AoC. Entire kinships are doing the same thing. LOTRO may end up with a vast playerbase to replace the one their losing, but it will be a playerbase who isn't playing $15 per month.
They're tossing out their customers in an effort to draw a completely different set of customers. Once again, the NGE comparison is validated.
Oh Donnie....
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/280917/page/1
followign this thread that wasnt' my take at all. Seems to me that most player who are playing LOTRO either like the idea or are in a wait and see mode.
Even looking at my guild's forums it seems that though there is some concern but I have only seen evidence that one player might quit.
In any case we'll have a better handle on what is going to happen after the middle of June when we get to see this store of theirs.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
MMOData
LOTRO will follow Star Wars Galaxies in that chart. Switching over from P2P to P2W is never good for a health game.
No it won't.
It's going to happen exactly as DDO.
LOTRO will lose subs but will retain a good amount of it's subscriber base because the average person who plays these games just doesn't care, and they will garner a good many free to play players. Some will be good and might subscribe (i'm pretty sure we'll be seeing threads started by players who never would have tried the game but becuase they tried it they liked it) and there will be a number of very trying people who also come into the game.
The game will slowly lose the charm of the first few expansions and updates and there will be more "SALE - new hat and potion starter packs" items creeping into the game.
However, for those who can overlook that stuff there will be quite a lot more content coming down the pike on a more regular basis.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Nope. Not at all.
Unless LOTRO suddenly changes the entire game -- classes and races available, game mechanics, etc. -- it's not ever going to be anything like the NGE. Ever.
People leave games all the time over changes they don't like. That doesn't automatically make every change to a game analagous to what happened to SWG.
haha so Funcom doesnt have a cash shop in AO?
"Durham, USA – October 12, 2007 – Funcom has now launched the virtual item sales in Anarchy Online. In yet another progressive move from Funcom, the players on Rubi-Ka are now able to purchase sets of points which can be used to acquire virtual items inside the game. The first virtual items introduced with the program come packed inside a new mini-expansion. Amongst other things the new pack includes hover-bikes, hover-boards, social clothing, pets and a luxury apartment."
http://funcom.vnewscenter.com/press.do?step=pkview&contentId=1191846050087&companyId=1101739674196
I think I rest my case...
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Well since its atleast going partially free to play I don't see what all the fuss is. No one has tried their game yet so don't complain. Maybe it will be good for the game maybe it won't, but either way not giving this game a try is in my opinion a dumb move. I'll definitly be dusting off my old champion and hunter and seeing what the new free and pay to play options have done to middle earth.
True. And, just like Turbine, if they've had success with offering it in one game, they'll have no problem doing it with another one if they decide it's worth it. I wouldn't be shocked at all if Funcom decided to introduce a cash shop in AoC at some point.
Honestly -- people should just expect these kinds of hybrid payment models in the future. Developers are looking for anything that gets them out of the $15/month rut in order to make money off their games, especially when you think about how expensive they are to develop now. Cash shops are just one way of doing it, and they're not going away anytime soon. Neither are these F2P/P2P hybrid payment models, like what Turbine is using.
It's easy to put people on ignore if they have names you don't like, or are spamming/spewing crap repeatedly. That's what I do.
Actually.....no. I can't go back and play vanilla WoW. It's not an option. I can't go back and play UO as it was originally either, although i think there should be options to DO just that. I know a lot of people that would play on a Vanilla WoW Only server.
As far as with LotRO....they sold a PAY TO PLAY MMO. It does sound like, to me, that they are doing a FAR better job providing OPTIONS for players, however, at least from what they're saying...it appears so. It doesn't SOUND like the game itself will change much, although...you know as well as I do....the community WILL. And one of the greatest things ABOUT LotRO was its community. So people do have a right to be pissed. My fruit analogy was more directed at WoW and other games that change SO MUCH over the course of time that they're not even recognizable as the same game other than by the art style alone.
And personally...I don't think WoW is "another kind of apple" than what was first released. It's an entirely different FRUIT now...like I said. I paid for an orange "delivery service" (if you must)....now THEY decide that I'm going to get pineapples instead. Oh sure....they'll still deliver them, but it's not going to be the fruit delivery service I signed up for, because now....THEY are deciding what fruit I should pay for every month. So....I moved to a new orchard. Fuck Blizzard. I don't want my fruit having cross server "tools" and crap like that. I want the community the game started with....probably the same thing that most LotRO players will be longing for by about this time next year. A pity really.
And yes....I KNOW my analogies are always "flawed" (to the snobbier folks around here). They're not meant to be perfect, they're meant to explain an emotion, an opinion, or a perception that I have. They're not going to be perfectly crafted collegiate studies in analogy....
So....bottom line is....we just disagree. No biggie.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Anarchy online was already ANCIENT when these things were introduced. Not to mention the fact that none of them have any effect on gameplay at all.....they are just transportation and social clothing with no stats.
AO has been running since 2001.....at this point in it's age, something had to be done to generate enough revenue to keep the game afloat, and finance it's engine upgrade.
THis is not the same as turning a healthy game into a cash cow. LOTRO was doing fine.
Also, if AoC ever follows the same route as AO, it will be years from now, once TSW has launched and AoC's subs are not enough to keep the game alive.
F2P / Item shops are life support for dying games. A way to prolong the death of the game, so that the last few members of the die hard community can continue to enjoy their game for as long as possible.
What WB / Turbine are doing to LOTRO, and what Icarus did to FE today, is downright stupid, and showcases their ignorance and greed.
So all your arguments have been proven wrong and now you back pedal and try to invent new stuff that has nothing to do with this...
Someone at Turbine said that monthly subscription is the number one reason why people are not playing a MMO. removing that obstacle seems like a pretty smart move then.
Funny how everyone who are upset upset about this are the people who are NOT playing LotrO. Is it fear or jealousy perhaps?
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
I play the game, I dont like F2P, just wanted to burst that bubble.
The main reason Lotro has low subs is because people have to pay a monthly fee? Err right, thats what funds the game to the high standards it has maintained since launch. F2P will mean less customer support and development in the long run.
I hope you DO realize, that this only underlines my sentiment? Almost all games are going this direction. I give AoC maximum 6 months.
BTW, Lotro's F2P option is precisely what AoC's unlimited trial is: an unlimited trial with VERY limited availability (max level 25, no mounts, only 3 regions etc.)
You keep confirming all my ideas. By all means, continue!
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
What makes a good community is the game not her price
see DDO.
What the HELL are you talking about??
a: proven wrong? where?? I was talking about AoC, not AO to begin with. And for that matter, if AoC were going to go F2P, they would have done so already, when the game was struggling for subs...not now that it's making a surging come-back, and soaking up the exodus from LOTRO.
b: Back-tracking?? "Inventing new stuff"? WTF are you on about??
"Someone at Turbine said...." Ummm.....sub fees aren't stopping the 12 million people playing WoW are they?? Or all the people playing other sub-based games? The F2P model is NOTHING new. There are COUNTLESS games listed on this very site that use it. If F2P is such a "miracle cure" for MMORPG gaming, then why is it that the MOST PLAYED GAMES are all sub based??
Look at the evidence. Look at the history. The FACTS in front of your face.
You know WHY the people upset about this whole thing aren't playing LOTRO?? Because we all just cancelled our subs, that's why.
No, not at all. If AoC were going to do any of this crap, they would have done it already, when the game was struggling.
And as we can see from AO, Funcom understands the correct way to implement these kinds of things when they need to anyway: Base game for free, nothing in the item shop with stats....IE only cosmetic items that have NO impact on the game.
Even in AoC's "unlimited trial", it's just Tortage and the surrounding areas. It's a classic MMORPG trial system, but without any time limit.
The difference here is, there's no little "BUY NOW!" icons on quest NPCs and zones......you want to play the rest of the game, you buy it, and sub. There's ONE game to buy, not multiple tiers....there's ONE sub to pay...not multiple tiers.
No nickle-and-diming the customers to death.
Which is...wait for it... the exact same system that Turbine has here, and which you're whining about.
So in other words, it's okay for Funcom to do it, but as soon as Turbine does the same thing, it's the end of the world?
No, it is NOT the exact same system. they're not even close.
Anarchy Online is not carved up into purchasable segments...there are no purchasable quests, or zones. You either buy the game and play the expansions, or you don't, and only play the base game. It's cut and dry.
The base game for fr00bs (what we call the free players) is financed by in-game advertisements, which flow nicely with the game world, being that most of the game world is futuristic city-scape.
There is no "if you want this quest, you have to pay a micro-fee. If you want this zone, you have to pay a micro-fee."
You either by the game, or don't.
The difference is that AO's system is simply a way for people to play the base game for free...TRUELY for free. LOTRO's system is a way to get people to spend a fortune on micro transactions to unlock content....IE, a money-grab.
HUGE honkin' difference.
Denial will always be denial.
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Again, I strongly advise you to actually read Turbine's announcement before you open yourself to even more frustration and embarrasment
Or, you can still continue, i already said I am enjoying it, didn't expect that you actually will continue
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.