How does buying from the store affect your ability to progress?

Mrbloodworth

I have gone ahead and purchased one dog and goggle form the item shop in fallen earth. I also do not even play anymore but they allowed me to apply it to my account.

 

Please feel free to tell me how this impacts you, your game play, and has directly affected your ability to progress and have fun in this title. I would like to know how others spend there time in an entertainment product affects you directly.

 

I look forward to the responses.

[Mod Edit]

VirusDancer

It is chicken and egg, to be honest.

If you have said game A, where there is generally available item B which may not be spectacular but is not limiting...then the ability to purchase item C which is better than B is not really an issue - would not affect me.

If you have said game D, where you have item E for sale and that item conforms to industry standard norms while item F (which would be considered gimp by the average player) is the item you can earn in the game - then your ability to purchase item E would affect me.

There is a difference between companies offering boons for sale and companies artificially nerfing standard items, game play, etc to force you to purchase items from a RMT store.

So in answer to your question, I suppose it would come down to whether the storage provided normally in the game is sufficient or if it is artificially low so as to require the purchase of the dog and along the same lines, is there adequate protection offered by other goggles/gear in the game?

Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by VirusDancer

It is chicken and egg, to be honest.

If you have said game A, where there is generally available item B which may not be spectacular but is not limiting...then the ability to purchase item C which is better than B is not really an issue - would not affect me.

If you have said game D, where you have item E for sale and that item conforms to industry standard norms while item F (which would be considered gimp by the average player) is the item you can earn in the game - then your ability to purchase item E would affect me.

There is a difference between companies offering boons for sale and companies artificially nerfing standard items, game play, etc to force you to purchase items from a RMT store.

So in answer to your question, I suppose it would come down to whether the storage provided normally in the game is sufficient or if it is artificially low so as to require the purchase of the dog and along the same lines, is there adequate protection offered by other goggles/gear in the game?

I aked how it directly affects you. Not for theories.

Ashkael

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by VirusDancer

It is chicken and egg, to be honest.

If you have said game A, where there is generally available item B which may not be spectacular but is not limiting...then the ability to purchase item C which is better than B is not really an issue - would not affect me.

If you have said game D, where you have item E for sale and that item conforms to industry standard norms while item F (which would be considered gimp by the average player) is the item you can earn in the game - then your ability to purchase item E would affect me.

There is a difference between companies offering boons for sale and companies artificially nerfing standard items, game play, etc to force you to purchase items from a RMT store.

So in answer to your question, I suppose it would come down to whether the storage provided normally in the game is sufficient or if it is artificially low so as to require the purchase of the dog and along the same lines, is there adequate protection offered by other goggles/gear in the game?

I aked how it directly affects you. Not for theories.

You're asking in the wrong place, then. I don't know how many people on this specific forum play Fallen Earth, and I certainly don't know what kind of benefit a "dog and goggle" provide.

JSchindler

I'm not familiar with the game/items in question but one response could be:

I want a dog and goggle too, but I can't afford to pay extra to buy one.

It makes me sad that you have something that I can never get, no matter how good I am.

Panther2103

I think they are just trying to get a huge negative response out of the people who strongly oppose the cash shop and any items that people can buy in them. Be it fluff or not. I'm actually suprised that no one has said anything yet.

Williac

One of the reasons I play MMORPG's is the sense of development. I like to start from nothing and then develop my character. Fallen Earth was the perfect game for me. The setting was all about the personal progression. You start as a clone with nothing but a few weapons and the collar around your neck. From hereon you were on your own, forced to survive by doing favours for factions you may not even support. Slowly I advanced through the game and I loved the way my character had evolved. Everything i wore had been made by myself. I had scavenged through countless piles of shit to get to this point. Spend hundreds of hours in the appropriate workshops. What others whined about constantly was the very reason I played the game. It was slow.

I loved how everything was craftable. I knew that a few items were only available if you'd bought a collectors edition or a steam version. But that was it. The only things I couldn't achieve or make myself.

Then they opened the Item Store. Despite the useless selection my heart was broken. A dog and some goggles. They destroyed the very reason I loved this game. You developed your character while playing. Everything he/she owned was because you had worked for it. Now you could spend 10 dollars and get something thrown in your face...

The reason why it's such a big deal is because it may evolve into something ala World of Warcraft. I firmly believe that progress should be made while playing the game, and not be bought for real money. I know a dog and a pair of googles won't affect game play or the balance, but it pains me that they're willing to offer items for real money. It takes away the very essence of the game.

I hope they will remove the Cash shop. I know it won't happen so I pray for a brighter future. I hope they'll keep it simple. No mounts or weapons etc. but useless crap that some people may find exciting.

But what does it matter? I have already said that i wouldn't support SW:TOR if they had a Cash Shop. Why should i bend my rules? I simply can't stand the fact that you can buy progress instead of doing it yourself...

Kyleran

Originally posted by Williac

But what does it matter? I have already said that i wouldn't support SW:TOR if they had a Cash Shop. Why should i bend my rules? I simply can't stand the fact that you can buy progress instead of doing it yourself...

No, you can still play the game the way you prefer and progress strictly through your own efforts, nothing's changed by the inclusion of these items in the cash shop.

What you can't stand is that other people are buying progression (sort of ) and you aren't.  Its a form of envy and one of our baser human emotions.

If you really love this game, you'll still play because (so far) the cash shop has absolutely no effect on your game play nor does it affect your competitiveness in PVP which I understand when people are concerned about that issue.

Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Williac

But what does it matter? I have already said that i wouldn't support SW:TOR if they had a Cash Shop. Why should i bend my rules? I simply can't stand the fact that you can buy progress instead of doing it yourself...

No, you can still play the game the way you prefer and progress strictly through your own efforts, nothing's changed by the inclusion of these items in the cash shop.

What you can't stand is that other people are buying progression (sort of ) and you aren't.  Its a form of envy and one of our baser human emotions.

If you really love this game, you'll still play because (so far) the cash shop has absolutely no effect on your game play nor does it affect your competitiveness in PVP which I understand when people are concerned about that issue.

 

You can only say it has no impact on the game play if you are dumb.

It actually changes the game in a fundamental way.

The OP's efforts in the game have been devalued, and his character is now worth less.

If he were a commodity on the stock market (as in selling characters on ebay for example), his value would go down, and the value of the person making the purhcase would go up.

It's not imaginary, it's not a "base emotion" it's a simple economic fact.

Value is determined by comparision.

Compared to the character WITH a google, a character WITHOUT a google, is less valuable.

If no such character WITH a google exists, the ALL characters are WITHOUT google, and are not devalued.

Very easy to understand really.

If you were buying a character on ebay for this game, would you buy a character WITH a google, or WITHOUT given the choice?

If the google has any perceived value, and I assume it does otherwise why would people get it?, then you would prefer the character WITH the google, making the character WITHOUT the google less valuable. 

You can say you are either to dumb to realize your character has been devalued, or you can say you don't care.

But it seems silly to assert that the value has not changed.

Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Ashkael

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by VirusDancer

It is chicken and egg, to be honest.

If you have said game A, where there is generally available item B which may not be spectacular but is not limiting...then the ability to purchase item C which is better than B is not really an issue - would not affect me.

If you have said game D, where you have item E for sale and that item conforms to industry standard norms while item F (which would be considered gimp by the average player) is the item you can earn in the game - then your ability to purchase item E would affect me.

There is a difference between companies offering boons for sale and companies artificially nerfing standard items, game play, etc to force you to purchase items from a RMT store.

So in answer to your question, I suppose it would come down to whether the storage provided normally in the game is sufficient or if it is artificially low so as to require the purchase of the dog and along the same lines, is there adequate protection offered by other goggles/gear in the game?

I aked how it directly affects you. Not for theories.

You're asking in the wrong place, then. I don't know how many people on this specific forum play Fallen Earth, and I certainly don't know what kind of benefit a "dog and goggle" provide.

Not really, because the answer is universal.

Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Panther2103

I think they are just trying to get a huge negative response out of the people who strongly oppose the cash shop and any items that people can buy in them. Be it fluff or not. I'm actually suprised that no one has said anything yet.

Its simple, they do not want to say the real answer. All responses will be big giant rationalizations and speculation or pure hyperbole.

 

Its allready started, read up.

Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Panther2103

I think they are just trying to get a huge negative response out of the people who strongly oppose the cash shop and any items that people can buy in them. Be it fluff or not. I'm actually suprised that no one has said anything yet.

Its simple, they do not ant to say the real answer. All responses will be big giant rationalizations and speculation or pure hyperbole.

 

Its allready started, read up.

 

Fun doesn't require reationalizations or anything else.

Some people have fun by playing a game where the only way to earn xp, money, and items is inside the game.

Some people have fun playing a game where you shoot other players.

Some people ahve fun playing a game where you buy items inside the game.

Why would any "rationalization" be required if somone is having fun?

Are you trying to say that someone is wrong to have fun playing a game where you earn all xp, money, and items inside the game?

That somehow the only "real" fun, is playing a game where you buy items in the game?

Kyleran

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Williac

But what does it matter? I have already said that i wouldn't support SW:TOR if they had a Cash Shop. Why should i bend my rules? I simply can't stand the fact that you can buy progress instead of doing it yourself...

No, you can still play the game the way you prefer and progress strictly through your own efforts, nothing's changed by the inclusion of these items in the cash shop.

What you can't stand is that other people are buying progression (sort of ) and you aren't.  Its a form of envy and one of our baser human emotions.

If you really love this game, you'll still play because (so far) the cash shop has absolutely no effect on your game play nor does it affect your competitiveness in PVP which I understand when people are concerned about that issue.

 

You can only say it has no impact on the game play if you are dumb.

It actually changes the game in a fundamental way.

The OP's efforts in the game have been devalued, and his character is now worth less.

If he were a commodity on the stock market (as in selling characters on ebay for example), his value would go down, and the value of the person making the purhcase would go up.

It's not imaginary, it's not a "base emotion" it's a simple economic fact.

Value is determined by comparision.

Compared to the character WITH a google, a character WITHOUT a google, is less valuable.

If no such character WITH a google exists, the ALL characters are WITHOUT google, and are not devalued.

Very easy to understand really.

If you were buying a character on ebay for this game, would you buy a character WITH a google, or WITHOUT given the choice?

If the google has any perceived value, and I assume it does otherwise why would people get it?, then you would prefer the character WITH the google, making the character WITHOUT the google less valuable. 

You can say you are either to dumb to realize your character has been devalued, or you can say you don't care.

But it seems silly to assert that the value has not changed.

Ah, you are up to your usual tactics again eh Imo? Start off with some name calling, deflect the argument to something else and then close with in insult.  Classic.

We weren't talkinng about the market value of the character, we were talking about the poster's supposed joy he obtained from playing the game and earning things on his own.  Nothing about this cash shop item devalues his actual game play experience in anyway, unless of course, he suffers from envy because someone has something he doesn't.

Odds are, neither of those items are so unique that there isn't something equivlent in stats in the game so again, no harm no foul.

You were correct about one thing in your post (you were bound to get lucky) I really don't care what another person has in an MMO, though I do like the opportunity to earn things as much as anyone.

But  if I can't, I can accept this, or like the poster said, I'll stop playing.

 

brostyn

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

 

 Please feel free to tell me how this impacts you, your game play, and has directly affected your ability to progress and have fun in this title. I would like to know how others spend there time in an entertainment product affects you directly.

Tell me how I can earn those rewards through adventuring inside the game?

The way that others spend their time inside a MMO has a direct effect on me. If someone buys content rather than adventuring for it, then that is one less person who is playing the game. If the option isn't even there to obtain said content, then wtf is it doing in a game world?

 

I eagerly await your response.

Mrbloodworth

Look at all the irrelevent pots that atempt  to turn the situation into somthing its not, so they can be upset.

 

No one has answed the question.

Nethermancer

I could care less if games have item shops to begin with. I'm not going to rage at all about it. However i will not play a game with an item shop and will leave a game with a sigh if one appears. This is why i stick with EVE online. And please don't talk about PLEX as i can earn play time in game therefore it is the opposite of the philosophy behind item stores.

brostyn

Originally posted by Kyleran

What you can't stand is that other people are buying progression (sort of ) and you aren't.  Its a form of envy and one of our baser human emotions.

 

 

Envy is born from the inability to have something. You're assuming one can't afford a cash shop, rather than they don't want to see the game world diluted with items that can't be obtained through gameplay.

VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by brostyn

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

 

 Please feel free to tell me how this impacts you, your game play, and has directly affected your ability to progress and have fun in this title. I would like to know how others spend there time in an entertainment product affects you directly.

Tell me how I can earn those rewards through adventuring inside the game?

The way that others spend their time inside a MMO has a direct effect on me. If someone buys content rather than adventuring for it, then that is one less person who is playing the game. If the option isn't even there to obtain said content, then wtf is it doing in a game world?

 

I eagerly await your response.

 The only time that how others spend their time in an MMO has a direct effect upon is when they are doing something to me.  How does how others spend their time in an MMO have a direct effect upon you?

Venge Sunsoar

Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Nethermancer

I could care less if games have item shops to begin with. I'm not going to rage at all about it. However i will not play a game with an item shop and will leave a game with a sigh if one appears. This is why i stick with EVE online. And please don't talk about PLEX as i can earn play time in game therefore it is the opposite of the philosophy behind item stores.

Not really. You are just fooling yourself. In many ways, its worse. I can buy whole fleets and curbstomp you with them, entire players even.

Agricola1

OK well here goes, I pay a subscription so that the developers create content for the game which I get to experience. I do not pay a subscription so that developers can create content and put it in a cash shop and sell it back to me and others that are playing for nothing.

Every time you buy something from that cash shop you're telling those developers that this kind of behaviour is acceptable. If you think it's acceptable fine, but I don't care what you think and you're asking how it affects my game and every time I see those items in game it pisses me off and alot of other gamers.

Luckily I never subscribed to FE and never will, the answer to people wo disapprove of these iem mall shenanigams is cancel the sub and uninstall, which people are doing in their droves ATM!

brostyn

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by brostyn

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

 

 Please feel free to tell me how this impacts you, your game play, and has directly affected your ability to progress and have fun in this title. I would like to know how others spend there time in an entertainment product affects you directly.

Tell me how I can earn those rewards through adventuring inside the game?

The way that others spend their time inside a MMO has a direct effect on me. If someone buys content rather than adventuring for it, then that is one less person who is playing the game. If the option isn't even there to obtain said content, then wtf is it doing in a game world?

 

I eagerly await your response.

 The only time that how others spend their time in an MMO has a direct effect upon is when they are doing something to me.  How does how others spend their time in an MMO have a direct effect upon you?

Venge Sunsoar

Because an MMO requires social interactions to be successful. If you don't log in it has an indirect effect on every player. If you obtain content through the cash shop it effects the game world, the spirit of gaming, and it shows the developers that people are willing to pay, not play, for rewards.

 

MMOrUS

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Look at all the irrelevent pots that atempt  to turn the situation into somthing its not, so they can be upset.

 

No one has answed the question.

 You know your not going to get a straight answer, because all those that shout and scream and make a fuss about how you buying your dog and goggles will upset the balance of the game now realise that although you just went out and bought those items, they never had the foggiest idea you did so until you told them.

So your original post has been able to answer the absurd notion that buying ingame items ruins a game, nobody from Fallen Earth noticed.

Ruethus

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

I have gone ahead and purchased one dog and goggle form the item shop in fallen earth. I also do not even play anymore but they allowed me to apply it to my account.

 

Please feel free to tell me how this impacts you, your game play, and has directly affected your ability to progress and have fun in this title. I would like to know how others spend there time in an entertainment product affects you directly.

 

I look forward to the responses.

It directly affects me by knowing that some sucker is dumb enough to support a cash shop on a sub based game thereby supporting and encouraging this kind of behavior from the gaming industry.

 

Is that the kind of answer you were going for?

Drakynn

Originally posted by brostyn

Originally posted by Kyleran

What you can't stand is that other people are buying progression (sort of ) and you aren't.  Its a form of envy and one of our baser human emotions.

 

 

Envy is born from the inability to have something. You're assuming one can't afford a cash shop, rather than they don't want to see the game world diluted with items that can't be obtained through gameplay.

Also there is envy on both sides.Cash shops prey on those who have extra disposable income but are time poor but can't enjoy a game for what it is and on thier own terms,the jsut have to keep up with the Joneses(in this case those poor souls with either no job or no social life or both who are time rich) evne if it means spending a fortune not to play the game.

In my time I've been out of work,socially inactive ,time rich and employed,socially invested,personal time poor.At no stage did I wish I could buy my way to the top tier in an MMO...I just enjoyed the time I put in and the perosnal goals I acheived.I can also tlel you I prefer being employed and socially active to having lots of time to invest in an MMO.

VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by brostyn

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by brostyn

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

 

 Please feel free to tell me how this impacts you, your game play, and has directly affected your ability to progress and have fun in this title. I would like to know how others spend there time in an entertainment product affects you directly.

Tell me how I can earn those rewards through adventuring inside the game?

The way that others spend their time inside a MMO has a direct effect on me. If someone buys content rather than adventuring for it, then that is one less person who is playing the game. If the option isn't even there to obtain said content, then wtf is it doing in a game world?

 

I eagerly await your response.

 The only time that how others spend their time in an MMO has a direct effect upon is when they are doing something to me.  How does how others spend their time in an MMO have a direct effect upon you?

Venge Sunsoar

Because an MMO requires social interactions to be successful. If you don't log in it has an indirect effect on every player. If you obtain content through the cash shop it effects the game world, the spirit of gaming, and it shows the developers that people are willing to pay, not play, for rewards.

 

 Fair enough.  I don't necessarily agree, but that wasn't the point.  You were able to come up with a way that others affect you.

 

Venge Sunsoar

Teala

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

I have gone ahead and purchased one dog and goggle form the item shop in fallen earth. I also do not even play anymore but they allowed me to apply it to my account.

 

Please feel free to tell me how this impacts you, your game play, and has directly affected your ability to progress and have fun in this title. I would like to know how others spend there time in an entertainment product affects you directly.

 

I look forward to the responses.

 OK I'll bite at your completely loaded question(which is worded to solicit angry responses).  

The issue isn't that it hinders a players progress or have fun in the game.  The issue is that as paying customers that pay a premium fee all ready the company now decides to add RMT to get more from their customers by inticing them to purchase, all be it fluff, some rather cool looking items - thus making the premium players payments seem like they are going toward paying for content that they must buy a piece at a time.   If they open this can of worms - where do they draw the line.  What's next...charging for a new play area or a new mount and then some new clothing.   See where this is going? 

People that pay a premium fee should have access to all the game offers - that is why they pay a premium monthly fee!  Doesn't matter if it is fluff they are offering in the cash shop...the player is all ready paying for the game - they should have access to anything the developers add.

If the creators of FE are going to go the route of cash shop they might as well just go all the way and make it f2p - instead of charging for content on top of a monthly premium fee.