and well MO will too, problem is that MO didnt have as much HYPE as DFO and as many loyal fans IMO, so they might die fast, unless they fix the hacking, #1 killer for a lot of people.
Time will tell, but I doubt SV can make MO very successful, they may stay a float for a few, but I doubt it.
GL SV, I warned you a long time ago in beta about that one company that sells hacks, and they already have them.
DF lost more accounts due to their game have a tremendous amount of design flaws. Only some of it was due to hacking. Some of the design overhauls were were screaming for are core features in MO. If DF can get 15k-20k subs, I don't see why MO can't at least double that if they play their cards right. That's more than enough to stay afloat.
I really doubt that 15-20k subs can keep a game afloat.. I think DFO is still around because AV gets money from the government , casino games that they create and probably from other sources as well. Does SV have any of that? The last claim AV made was that they had ~ 30 devs which I never beleived .. So lets say they have 10 devs ( how many does SV have? ) and they are being paid out of the money they get from the subs.. 20k ( lets be generous ) players at 15$ is 300,000$ . How much do those 10 devs get? That money is mostly gone already without even paying bills or repaying loans.
As far as hacking goes.. I was an expereince hacker about 11 or 12 years ago on the early FPS which kept client side data much like DF and MO.. It was very easy and I was never caught. Only the stupid / overconfident hackers get caught while the good ones keep on keeping on. I wouldnt doubt for a second the " elite " guilds on DF used hacks.
I will agree with Hercules on one thing.. People do seem to accept worse and worse and worse games anymore which allows for even worse games to be released because devs see that a POS game made some money so they throw out one too.
Dude, your opinions are based on nothing but somewhat bizarre assumptions. AV makes more money on government handouts (greece went from bankrupt to bailing out GAMING companies?) than the hundreds of thousands of dollars per month that they'd get if they have a meager 10-20k subs? DFO is still around because they have enough subscribers to pay operating costs at the very least.
Your experience hacking a game 11 years ago doesn't tell us much now. No one doubts that the MO client CAN be hacked, like any other piece of software. The question is, can they USE the hack without being detected? Things have gone a long way since Duke Nuken (or whatever game your talking about), so I don't think that argument holds water.
And the gaming industry is like any other entertainment industry; the lowest common denominator is the most popular, thus the most profitable, thus the most widespread. This is why I'm playing MO tbh.
People forget as well, that there are investors here that are expecting a return on their investment. With MMOs, generally speaking -- the first month is *the* key month for retention, it always goes down after that over time. Box sales generate the revenue to start production costs for the first month, and then the retention keeps the game afloat and actually builds the game up.
SV already blew the money from the boxed orders. Their retention rates are as of yet unknown, but I don't think there is a great outlook there. 15k subs at $15 a piece (and that's a STRETCH), is $225k, from which they have to pay server maintenence costs, bandwith costs, salaries, office rent, and after all that, have to go to their investors and say "here's your cut".
and well MO will too, problem is that MO didnt have as much HYPE as DFO and as many loyal fans IMO, so they might die fast, unless they fix the hacking, #1 killer for a lot of people.
Time will tell, but I doubt SV can make MO very successful, they may stay a float for a few, but I doubt it.
GL SV, I warned you a long time ago in beta about that one company that sells hacks, and they already have them.
DF lost more accounts due to their game have a tremendous amount of design flaws. Only some of it was due to hacking. Some of the design overhauls were were screaming for are core features in MO. If DF can get 15k-20k subs, I don't see why MO can't at least double that if they play their cards right. That's more than enough to stay afloat.
I really doubt that 15-20k subs can keep a game afloat.. I think DFO is still around because AV gets money from the government , casino games that they create and probably from other sources as well. Does SV have any of that? The last claim AV made was that they had ~ 30 devs which I never beleived .. So lets say they have 10 devs ( how many does SV have? ) and they are being paid out of the money they get from the subs.. 20k ( lets be generous ) players at 15$ is 300,000$ . How much do those 10 devs get? That money is mostly gone already without even paying bills or repaying loans.
As far as hacking goes.. I was an expereince hacker about 11 or 12 years ago on the early FPS which kept client side data much like DF and MO.. It was very easy and I was never caught. Only the stupid / overconfident hackers get caught while the good ones keep on keeping on. I wouldnt doubt for a second the " elite " guilds on DF used hacks.
I will agree with Hercules on one thing.. People do seem to accept worse and worse and worse games anymore which allows for even worse games to be released because devs see that a POS game made some money so they throw out one too.
Dude, your opinions are based on nothing but somewhat bizarre assumptions. AV makes more money on government handouts (greece went from bankrupt to bailing out GAMING companies?) than the hundreds of thousands of dollars per month that they'd get if they have a meager 10-20k subs? DFO is still around because they have enough subscribers to pay operating costs at the very least.
Your experience hacking a game 11 years ago doesn't tell us much now. No one doubts that the MO client CAN be hacked, like any other piece of software. The question is, can they USE the hack without being detected? Things have gone a long way since Duke Nuken (or whatever game your talking about), so I don't think that argument holds water.
And the gaming industry is like any other entertainment industry; the lowest common denominator is the most popular, thus the most profitable, thus the most widespread. This is why I'm playing MO tbh.
Yes, they can use the hack without being detected. Unless some of my friends were banned and they didn't tell me, but as of yesterday that wasn't true.
Again, anybody with even a little bit of programming experience can know whether or not the game has hack detection enabled or not. MO does not. Now if you want to believe Henrik saying "we can catch those pesky hackers!" that's fine, and all I suggest is that you believe at your own risk.
Several people have already been baned from MO for cheating. This person is a MO hater and try to destroy MO for all players, saying it's risk free to cheat in MO. Don't trust him, he don't care if you get a ban or not. He only care about hurting MO. Really sad.
People forget as well, that there are investors here that are expecting a return on their investment. With MMOs, generally speaking -- the first month is *the* key month for retention, it always goes down after that over time. Box sales generate the revenue to start production costs for the first month, and then the retention keeps the game afloat and actually builds the game up.
SV already blew the money from the boxed orders. Their retention rates are as of yet unknown, but I don't think there is a great outlook there. 15k subs at $15 a piece (and that's a STRETCH), is $225k, from which they have to pay server maintenence costs, bandwith costs, salaries, office rent, and after all that, have to go to their investors and say "here's your cut".
It's going to be an entertaining month or three.
Are you really saying all MMO's start with peak subscribers and decline over time? Or were you just afraid this thread might somehow get back on topic, so you figured a good "MO is dying" tangent was in order...?
People forget as well, that there are investors here that are expecting a return on their investment. With MMOs, generally speaking -- the first month is *the* key month for retention, it always goes down after that over time. Box sales generate the revenue to start production costs for the first month, and then the retention keeps the game afloat and actually builds the game up.
SV already blew the money from the boxed orders. Their retention rates are as of yet unknown, but I don't think there is a great outlook there. 15k subs at $15 a piece (and that's a STRETCH), is $225k, from which they have to pay server maintenence costs, bandwith costs, salaries, office rent, and after all that, have to go to their investors and say "here's your cut".
It's going to be an entertaining month or three.
Are you really saying all MMO's start with peak subscribers and decline over time? Or were you just afraid this thread might somehow get back on topic, so you figured a good "MO is dying" tangent was in order...?
All I'm saying is that the launch of an MMO and its initial month of retained subscriptions says a lot to investors about how the health of the project is going to be on a long term.
It was in topic, just going along with the thread people were talking about. You're free to bring it back on topic.
Several people have already been baned from MO for cheating. This person is a MO hater and try to destroy MO for all players, saying it's risk free to cheat in MO. Don't trust him, he don't care if you get a ban or not. He only care about hurting MO. Really sad.
I think if you cheat, you should get banned. I'm not advocating cheating. I'm just saying that there isn't any detection in MO that will make a difference, but other players and GMs can catch you and get you banned. You're at your own risk when you try it and in an MMO, it's totally lame.
But it doesn't remove the fact that cheating in MO is easy to do, and not detectable by in-game means.
Several people have already been baned from MO for cheating. This person is a MO hater and try to destroy MO for all players, saying it's risk free to cheat in MO. Don't trust him, he don't care if you get a ban or not. He only care about hurting MO. Really sad.
I think if you cheat, you should get banned. I'm not advocating cheating. I'm just saying that there isn't any detection in MO that will make a difference, but other players and GMs can catch you and get you banned. You're at your own risk when you try it and in an MMO, it's totally lame.
But it doesn't remove the fact that cheating in MO is easy to do, and not detectable by in-game means.
Several people have already been baned from MO for cheating. This person is a MO hater and try to destroy MO for all players, saying it's risk free to cheat in MO. Don't trust him, he don't care if you get a ban or not. He only care about hurting MO. Really sad.
I think if you cheat, you should get banned. I'm not advocating cheating. I'm just saying that there isn't any detection in MO that will make a difference, but other players and GMs can catch you and get you banned. You're at your own risk when you try it and in an MMO, it's totally lame.
But it doesn't remove the fact that cheating in MO is easy to do, and not detectable by in-game means.
How is your last line not advocating cheating?
Are you a bit dense? Just because something is easy to do doesn't mean you are advocating for it.
Just because one person .. on internet ... says you can easily cheat without detection ... doesn't mean that there actually is little risk to get a ban when you cheat. Especially when Star Vault them self say they have anti cheat detection tools that they use.
Just because one person .. on internet ... says you can easily cheat without detection ... doesn't mean that there actually is little risk to get a ban when you cheat. Especially when Star Vault them self say they have anti cheat detection tools that they use.
SV says a lot of things. Probably just a scare tactic against cheating.
Just because one person .. on internet ... says you can easily cheat without detection ... doesn't mean that there actually is little risk to get a ban when you cheat. Especially when Star Vault them self say they have anti cheat detection tools that they use.
Which again, is easy to prove that they don't.
Any programmer with even a little experience that knows how to use a Spy tool can tell you whether or not there's a "watcher" program that checks whether you are cheating or not. That's as much detail as I will give, but anybody that actually knows what they are talking about can use my simple information and discover this themselves.
Just because one person .. on internet ... says you can easily cheat without detection ... doesn't mean that there actually is little risk to get a ban when you cheat. Especially when Star Vault them self say they have anti cheat detection tools that they use.
Which again, is easy to prove that they don't.
Any programmer with even a little experience that knows how to use a Spy tool can tell you whether or not there's a "watcher" program that checks whether you are cheating or not. That's as much detail as I will give, but anybody that actually knows what they are talking about can use my simple information and discover this themselves.
Anonymous internet guy is pro... but he can't reveal his secrets.
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to teach you how to use Spy++ or other tools in order to find out whether or not the cheat detection is active. All I am saying is that if you know how to use those tools already -- you will know I'm right. The problem is, if you know how to use those tools, you also know how to hack the game and no, I won't post specifics on that for obvious reasons.
Just because one person .. on internet ... says you can easily cheat without detection ... doesn't mean that there actually is little risk to get a ban when you cheat. Especially when Star Vault them self say they have anti cheat detection tools that they use.
Which again, is easy to prove that they don't.
Any programmer with even a little experience that knows how to use a Spy tool can tell you whether or not there's a "watcher" program that checks whether you are cheating or not. That's as much detail as I will give, but anybody that actually knows what they are talking about can use my simple information and discover this themselves.
Anonymous internet guy is pro... but he can't reveal his secrets.
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to teach you how to use Spy++ or other tools in order to find out whether or not the cheat detection is active. All I am saying is that if you know how to use those tools already -- you will know I'm right. The problem is, if you know how to use those tools, you also know how to hack the game and no, I won't post specifics on that for obvious reasons.
I'm going to call bullshit because a lot of people have been banned for hacking (some complaining on the forums) and no one has seen hackers running around doing as they please. Hacking in MO while it may be do-able it is most certainly getting many people banned before they affect the in-game world.
Just because one person .. on internet ... says you can easily cheat without detection ... doesn't mean that there actually is little risk to get a ban when you cheat. Especially when Star Vault them self say they have anti cheat detection tools that they use.
Which again, is easy to prove that they don't.
Any programmer with even a little experience that knows how to use a Spy tool can tell you whether or not there's a "watcher" program that checks whether you are cheating or not. That's as much detail as I will give, but anybody that actually knows what they are talking about can use my simple information and discover this themselves.
Anonymous internet guy is pro... but he can't reveal his secrets.
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to teach you how to use Spy++ or other tools in order to find out whether or not the cheat detection is active. All I am saying is that if you know how to use those tools already -- you will know I'm right. The problem is, if you know how to use those tools, you also know how to hack the game and no, I won't post specifics on that for obvious reasons.
I'm going to call bullshit because a lot of people have been banned for hacking (some complaining on the forums) and no one has seen hackers running around doing as they please. Hacking in MO while it may be do-able it is most certainly getting many people banned before they affect the in-game world.
That's fine. I'm not going to argue it out with you to prove a point. You will see it happen, and that will be all the evidence I need. The game is launched and live now, and there's a risk of getting banned, so what people are doing is to further their character and not imbalance the game. It's not going to be obvious, just like in DF a LOT of hacking wasn't obvious.
I'm going to call bullshit because a lot of people have been banned for hacking (some complaining on the forums) and no one has seen hackers running around doing as they please. Hacking in MO while it may be do-able it is most certainly getting many people banned before they affect the in-game world.
I guess we have different definition for "a lot of people". That's OK. I am glad they found and banned these two cheaters. All who cheat should meet a similar fate!!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Well it's not being witnessed in-game and hey I play the game. My imput on this matter holds more water.
I'm somewhat confused. Did you see the hackers before and now you dont? You said "lot's of people" were being banned but for that to happen "lot's of people" would have to be hacking....
If you did see a lot of hackers during the first few days and they are dissapearing that would be good news indeed!
Bottom line is that hackers and cheaters (I throw exploiters in here as well) should all be banned as they are a plague deserving our scorn.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Yes Herc you are absoutely correct about the lack of hack detection.
Yes if someone knows how to use certain sniffer programs (any good network person does) then they would see what is happening and how easy it is to do, or just run a disassembler on the game code and look at what is missing.
I wonl't say more since people that know how to hack already know what to do and the other people are happy in their little world of makebelieve taking anything SV tells them all the way up without even using KY.
"If you were as smart as you think you are, you would realize that you are an idiot"
Does MO still come with client-side hitbox detection?
Because if it does, hacking is trivial and easily detectable. Hell, just drop packets to the server, smack people, and resend packets. Congratulation, you are "hacking".
Just because one person .. on internet ... says you can easily cheat without detection ... doesn't mean that there actually is little risk to get a ban when you cheat. Especially when Star Vault them self say they have anti cheat detection tools that they use.
Which again, is easy to prove that they don't.
Any programmer with even a little experience that knows how to use a Spy tool can tell you whether or not there's a "watcher" program that checks whether you are cheating or not. That's as much detail as I will give, but anybody that actually knows what they are talking about can use my simple information and discover this themselves.
Anonymous internet guy is pro... but he can't reveal his secrets.
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to teach you how to use Spy++ or other tools in order to find out whether or not the cheat detection is active. All I am saying is that if you know how to use those tools already -- you will know I'm right. The problem is, if you know how to use those tools, you also know how to hack the game and no, I won't post specifics on that for obvious reasons.
I'm going to call bullshit because a lot of people have been banned for hacking (some complaining on the forums) and no one has seen hackers running around doing as they please. Hacking in MO while it may be do-able it is most certainly getting many people banned before they affect the in-game world.
Comments
Dude, your opinions are based on nothing but somewhat bizarre assumptions. AV makes more money on government handouts (greece went from bankrupt to bailing out GAMING companies?) than the hundreds of thousands of dollars per month that they'd get if they have a meager 10-20k subs? DFO is still around because they have enough subscribers to pay operating costs at the very least.
Your experience hacking a game 11 years ago doesn't tell us much now. No one doubts that the MO client CAN be hacked, like any other piece of software. The question is, can they USE the hack without being detected? Things have gone a long way since Duke Nuken (or whatever game your talking about), so I don't think that argument holds water.
And the gaming industry is like any other entertainment industry; the lowest common denominator is the most popular, thus the most profitable, thus the most widespread. This is why I'm playing MO tbh.
People forget as well, that there are investors here that are expecting a return on their investment. With MMOs, generally speaking -- the first month is *the* key month for retention, it always goes down after that over time. Box sales generate the revenue to start production costs for the first month, and then the retention keeps the game afloat and actually builds the game up.
SV already blew the money from the boxed orders. Their retention rates are as of yet unknown, but I don't think there is a great outlook there. 15k subs at $15 a piece (and that's a STRETCH), is $225k, from which they have to pay server maintenence costs, bandwith costs, salaries, office rent, and after all that, have to go to their investors and say "here's your cut".
It's going to be an entertaining month or three.
Yes, they can use the hack without being detected. Unless some of my friends were banned and they didn't tell me, but as of yesterday that wasn't true.
Again, anybody with even a little bit of programming experience can know whether or not the game has hack detection enabled or not. MO does not. Now if you want to believe Henrik saying "we can catch those pesky hackers!" that's fine, and all I suggest is that you believe at your own risk.
Several people have already been baned from MO for cheating. This person is a MO hater and try to destroy MO for all players, saying it's risk free to cheat in MO. Don't trust him, he don't care if you get a ban or not. He only care about hurting MO. Really sad.
Are you really saying all MMO's start with peak subscribers and decline over time? Or were you just afraid this thread might somehow get back on topic, so you figured a good "MO is dying" tangent was in order...?
All I'm saying is that the launch of an MMO and its initial month of retained subscriptions says a lot to investors about how the health of the project is going to be on a long term.
It was in topic, just going along with the thread people were talking about. You're free to bring it back on topic.
I think if you cheat, you should get banned. I'm not advocating cheating. I'm just saying that there isn't any detection in MO that will make a difference, but other players and GMs can catch you and get you banned. You're at your own risk when you try it and in an MMO, it's totally lame.
But it doesn't remove the fact that cheating in MO is easy to do, and not detectable by in-game means.
How is your last line not advocating cheating?
People cant read their own comments...
what did I just said?
Are you a bit dense? Just because something is easy to do doesn't mean you are advocating for it.
He who keeps his cool best wins.
Just because one person .. on internet ... says you can easily cheat without detection ... doesn't mean that there actually is little risk to get a ban when you cheat. Especially when Star Vault them self say they have anti cheat detection tools that they use.
SV says a lot of things. Probably just a scare tactic against cheating.
He who keeps his cool best wins.
Which again, is easy to prove that they don't.
Any programmer with even a little experience that knows how to use a Spy tool can tell you whether or not there's a "watcher" program that checks whether you are cheating or not. That's as much detail as I will give, but anybody that actually knows what they are talking about can use my simple information and discover this themselves.
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to teach you how to use Spy++ or other tools in order to find out whether or not the cheat detection is active. All I am saying is that if you know how to use those tools already -- you will know I'm right. The problem is, if you know how to use those tools, you also know how to hack the game and no, I won't post specifics on that for obvious reasons.
I'm going to call bullshit because a lot of people have been banned for hacking (some complaining on the forums) and no one has seen hackers running around doing as they please. Hacking in MO while it may be do-able it is most certainly getting many people banned before they affect the in-game world.
http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/45986-what-shit.html
http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/45851-ban.html (This one is especially good)
That's fine. I'm not going to argue it out with you to prove a point. You will see it happen, and that will be all the evidence I need. The game is launched and live now, and there's a risk of getting banned, so what people are doing is to further their character and not imbalance the game. It's not going to be obvious, just like in DF a LOT of hacking wasn't obvious.
I guess we have different definition for "a lot of people". That's OK. I am glad they found and banned these two cheaters. All who cheat should meet a similar fate!!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Well it's not being witnessed in-game and hey I play the game. My imput on this matter holds more water.
I'm somewhat confused. Did you see the hackers before and now you dont? You said "lot's of people" were being banned but for that to happen "lot's of people" would have to be hacking....
If you did see a lot of hackers during the first few days and they are dissapearing that would be good news indeed!
Bottom line is that hackers and cheaters (I throw exploiters in here as well) should all be banned as they are a plague deserving our scorn.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Yes Herc you are absoutely correct about the lack of hack detection.
Yes if someone knows how to use certain sniffer programs (any good network person does) then they would see what is happening and how easy it is to do, or just run a disassembler on the game code and look at what is missing.
I wonl't say more since people that know how to hack already know what to do and the other people are happy in their little world of makebelieve taking anything SV tells them all the way up without even using KY.
"If you were as smart as you think you are, you would realize that you are an idiot"
Does MO still come with client-side hitbox detection?
Because if it does, hacking is trivial and easily detectable. Hell, just drop packets to the server, smack people, and resend packets. Congratulation, you are "hacking".
Well if you can't detect the anti-hack programme then you're doing it wrong or SV's programming skills > your knowledge at finding anti-cheat systems.
Yeah, the last link you gave is epic. As I have said before, several people have been banned lately for cheat, so the anti cheat tool works nice.
First of all, look at that guys reputation. It's 1!!
If it were higher, I'd take it under consideration, but like that, no thank you.
Second, I can post on the forums (tested), and I just played beta. My account is still active there.
So, if I would post and say I'm banned for hacking, would you believe me? Of course you would, because it's wishful thinking!!
The launch it self was on time, but the game is still barelly playable two weeks later after the launch.