No hiding it now, SWTOR is just a WOW copy cat with a star wars theme, AKA a game for infants that have no brain.
U HEARD IT FIRST FROM ME FOLKS!
The number of successful games that didn't copy some elements/innovations from other games is actually rather small.
The truly unique games that managed to do so has actually become the statistical dark horse.
For a game with production costs this high, it's expceted that they would make use of formats proven successful in other games while providing their own twists to those formats.
For what it's worth, with the innovations WAR brought to the table in instanced pvp gameplay this should be fairly decent, IMO.
Some of the comments in this thread are rather funny as it appears some posters were expecting an MMO juggernaut to attempt forced open-world pvp.
This isn't going to happen...
Abandon that hope.
Open world PvP was never going to happen here, the more info Bioware release the better the game sounds.
Withe the scale and variety of planetscapes / classses and items in game just can't wait now was not originally going to bother. But if they pull this off with exploration star wise to add to the core planets then this could be really enjoyable.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
SWTOR PVP will be no more than instanced battlegrounds scenarios. Kind of like WAR scenarios or WOW battlegrounds.
Kind of sad news for people that expected free roaming non instanced PVP/RVR world areas...
Full planets at WAR doesn't spell out instances just localised. All the announcement made at E3 are making the game sound more and more playable. They seem to be limiting the unsavory elements, haha so no ganking you will have to stand up and fight.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
not that im against "warzones" but there is no new link that says they are instanced or only instanced rather. Also there is no link that says its te only pvp style. There are more questions to be answered before you start making the "cats out the bag threads"
Someone intelligent here! That just please me! WE DON'T KNOW... Other than WARZONES!
I think most of us here are intelligent enough and experienced enough to decode dev-speak by now.
Guild Wars and WoW fused together with lightsabers in the mix? That is incredible! Totally original!
Can play crap like SWG NGE and save myself the waiting time and money. What makes this anything close to innovative and fresh? Because it has slightly better graphics? Because it is in the Old Republic era? Yawn, back to Resident Evil 2.
When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?
not that im against "warzones" but there is no new link that says they are instanced or only instanced rather. Also there is no link that says its te only pvp style. There are more questions to be answered before you start making the "cats out the bag threads"
Someone intelligent here! That just please me! WE DON'T KNOW... Other than WARZONES!
I think most of us here are intelligent enough and experienced enough to decode dev-speak by now.
That is the biggest joke I've heard all day. Obviously you know very little about the community here.
not that im against "warzones" but there is no new link that says they are instanced or only instanced rather. Also there is no link that says its te only pvp style. There are more questions to be answered before you start making the "cats out the bag threads"
Someone intelligent here! That just please me! WE DON'T KNOW... Other than WARZONES!
I think most of us here are intelligent enough and experienced enough to decode dev-speak by now.
That is the biggest joke I've heard all day. Obviously you know very little about the community here.
Clearly what he meant is "I tihnk most of us are opinionated enough and self centered enough to twist dev-speak to whatever our preconcieved notions about a game are by now."
i think someone needs to learn to read and comprehend what they are reading. the writer stated that pvp areas will be called warzones and alderaan is the first one. then the writer says not much is being released about them other than the name but it sounds like wow instanced battlegrounds. note the second point is the writers opinion, not from anything that he has personally seen but from what he knows from wow. now it could very well be this way, but right now we dont know that at all, so to put the game down on that point is kind of silly. personally i could care less, i dont want open world pvp, when im questing i like to quest, not deal with asshats, when i want to pvp i got a place i can go that is pvp, best of both worlds for everyone, i dont understand why people cant figure that out. except for the problem with battlegrounds is it is usually balanced for pvp and much harder to gank people and we all know that people that love pvp dont love it for the competition, they love it so they can gank people lower level or otherwise not as powerful so they can be assholes. in every game ive played give a pvper some competition and they run for the hills and go find another newb to kill over and over.
not that im against "warzones" but there is no new link that says they are instanced or only instanced rather. Also there is no link that says its te only pvp style. There are more questions to be answered before you start making the "cats out the bag threads"
Someone intelligent here! That just please me! WE DON'T KNOW... Other than WARZONES!
I think most of us here are intelligent enough and experienced enough to decode dev-speak by now.
That is the biggest joke I've heard all day. Obviously you know very little about the community here.
Clearly what he meant is "I tihnk most of us are opinionated enough and self centered enough to twist dev-speak to whatever our preconcieved notions about a game are by now."
Oh, well then he's right. Thank you for pointing that out to me
For epic fleet battles like some of the fleet battles in the Star Wars movies, battle grounds is probably the best way to recreate the impact of those movies.
As to what else might be in the game, who knows except the developers.
Gladly there's enogh indy-developers, who don't think about competing with the millions of subscribers of WoW etc.
Keep an eye on Earthrise for a FFA-PvP SciFi-styled MMO.
WoW makes it work very well in the PVP and RPVP servers - which are very popular.
I love PvP and I'm quite happy with this news tbh. I hope they combine this option with PvP and RPvP servers as mentioned above, but I won't lose sleep if they don't.
I'm a fairly casual player but playstyle aside, I find open world PvP is far to heavily influenced by:
The number of players on a given side
Their level and kit
The amount of time they have to prepare and invest
None of these factors equate to skill in the classical sense and this, combined with the inevitable ganking, makes open world PvP a real turn-off for many players.
Aryas
Playing: Ableton Live 8 ~ ragequitcancelsubdeletegamesmashcomputerkillself ~
PvP really only factors into a small portion of players in a normal MMO
My outlook on this is as simple as my wishes for this game...
Good Community: Enjoying 80% of the folks you play around makes the game worth playing. If you have ever played a game with one, you'll know what I mean here...
Exploration: Yes, there's going to be tons of planets with quest-hubs, I want just as many hole-in-the-wall planets I can go check stuff out in for no other reason than I got time to kill.
Responsive Devs, Good Moderators: I don't need a restaurant server, but I would like to see Community Mgrs that remain visible on the boards and Mods that actually moderate the tone of the boards. This goes a long way toward a healthy community.
Consentual PvP and/or Consentual PvP zones, but alot of it: Games are supposed to be fun and getting ganked is only fun for the ganker(s). However, PvP is fun and there should be a wealth of scenarios to experience and not all ground based.
Diverse/Solid/Balanced/ Relatively Bug-Free Gameplay: This is a given, but nowhere near as often implemented by game companies as it should be. Bioware has a good history though so we should be good here.
Lastly, a story that has visible effects that everyone can see.
This should be a living, breathing story. Every town and outpost should not look the same a year after launch as they do the day of launch.
Destroyed areas should show signs of rebuilding.. some outposts should have gotten larger while others be damaged due to nearby skirmishes.
If this game can do those things, I would call it dynamic.
i will be interested to here what the "warzones" actually are also. I have to admit my first reaction was not to think warzones=battlegrounds but another wow-esque tool to facilitate pvp. Its been awhile since i played wow but in the last expansion they had quests and rewards around a part of a zone that required you to be flagged for pvp to complete. The area had both faction npc's and literally tried to funnel players there to fight. My initial thought is that a planet warzone would be like that with areas dividing the levels or instancing dividing the levels.
I figured if we are assuming i'd offer my assumption.
What i would really like to see is that concept of pvp -flagging questing linked to the WAR public quests. If a scenario unfolds infront of you that is dynamic and interactive while facilitating pvp....i think that would go along way to get more pve oriented players (like me) to get into pvp open world.
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus Originally posted by jrs77 Open world PvP is not appealing to the masses.
So you know the masses?
The masses never played a good Open world PvP game, so the masses don't know if they would like it or not?
The success of Eve shows that the masses could like a system like that, most people that try it get hooked.
But then Bioware is not the company aiming at an open world PvP scenario game with all their story telling, i never expected anything else then announced at E3...
EVE only has 350k subs. Bioware is playing in the big leagues.
Originally posted by Erstok Guild Wars and WoW fused together with lightsabers in the mix? That is incredible! Totally original!Can play crap like SWG NGE and save myself the waiting time and money. What makes this anything close to innovative and fresh? Because it has slightly better graphics? Because it is in the Old Republic era? Yawn, back to Resident Evil 2.
You know at first I was like yet another hyperbole post. I mean playing SWG NGE over TOR? I figured there's no way you're serious.
Then you said you were going go and play Resident Evil 2 when RE4 is better than RE2 in pretty much every single possible way. And it all started to make sense.
Bullshit, they just said there would be pvp 'Warzones' where Team vs Team pvp takes place.
Nothing on instancing, whether they are battlegrounds or whether they are the only form of pvp.
And for you information, yes there will be battlegrounds, that has been confirmed earlier, there will also be open PvP, so don't get your panties in a bunch when they do release actual details on a system saying it will be the only thing there.
Seriously, you people...
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
"Borrowing ideas from other well-established titles, Bioware went on to discuss the game's crafting and PvP systems. Crafting will be "unique but WoW-like", though no specific details have yet been published on it. For PvP, the game will feature some large open PvP areas in addition to instanced warzones. These are intended to act like World of Warcraft's battlegrounds, pitting teams against each other in instanced matches. Transitioning from the game world into an instance is smooth, with absolutely no load time. If it weren't for the glowing green area, you might not even realise you'd entered an instance."
So that for the most part clears it up. There will not be any full blown open world pvp anywhere you want. There will be certain specific areas where you can engage in large open pvp in addition to instanced warzones.
So if you ask me that sounds sorta like a Warhammer style setup. Specific areas to pvp in and instanced warzones to round it all off.
Yeah gaiz DIS IS CONFIRMED FEETURE there is NO CHANCE BioWare will reveal more about PvP in the NEXT YEAR of development, inclooding possibility of open-world RvR. Especially since Mythic part of BioWare, NO CHANCE there will be RvR. What does Mythic have to do wif RvR? SRSLY. BioWare just made big planets for instanced, story-based QUESTING! DAT'Z IT! NO chance of anyfing to do wit PvP in those open spaces.
^ I talked like a WoW kiddie because I know there are plenty of "this is a WoW clone" sentiments in this thread without even reading it.
Lol...As I just said in the "fun thread" about games...
This guy took a quote, changed it to favor what he thinks (it could be right, it could be wrong), and treated it as fact. Even worse, some people believe him.
They said alderan is a warzone. The entire planet could be a pvp area. It could mean, you land, and the outpost you land in could have friendly NPCs but you could still be attacked. It could mean any outpost can be controlled by either side if captured. It could mean you land on the planet and can only then queue for an instanced battleground that is on a random part of the planet.
One of my buddies said he saw the g4tv 30 minute ingame footage, but I haven't stopped watching g4tv and haven't seen anything, and no sites have any info at all, except gamyspy saying there are some quests that involve killing rats.
Comments
Open world PvP was never going to happen here, the more info Bioware release the better the game sounds.
Withe the scale and variety of planetscapes / classses and items in game just can't wait now was not originally going to bother. But if they pull this off with exploration star wise to add to the core planets then this could be really enjoyable.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Full planets at WAR doesn't spell out instances just localised. All the announcement made at E3 are making the game sound more and more playable. They seem to be limiting the unsavory elements, haha so no ganking you will have to stand up and fight.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I am sad. I am very sad.
If the gameplay is an upgraded system similar to WOW the game will be a success.
Evolution son !
WoW makes it work very well in the PVP and RPVP servers - which are very popular.
I think most of us here are intelligent enough and experienced enough to decode dev-speak by now.
Guild Wars and WoW fused together with lightsabers in the mix? That is incredible! Totally original!
Can play crap like SWG NGE and save myself the waiting time and money. What makes this anything close to innovative and fresh? Because it has slightly better graphics? Because it is in the Old Republic era? Yawn, back to Resident Evil 2.
When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?
That is the biggest joke I've heard all day. Obviously you know very little about the community here.
Clearly what he meant is "I tihnk most of us are opinionated enough and self centered enough to twist dev-speak to whatever our preconcieved notions about a game are by now."
i think someone needs to learn to read and comprehend what they are reading. the writer stated that pvp areas will be called warzones and alderaan is the first one. then the writer says not much is being released about them other than the name but it sounds like wow instanced battlegrounds. note the second point is the writers opinion, not from anything that he has personally seen but from what he knows from wow. now it could very well be this way, but right now we dont know that at all, so to put the game down on that point is kind of silly. personally i could care less, i dont want open world pvp, when im questing i like to quest, not deal with asshats, when i want to pvp i got a place i can go that is pvp, best of both worlds for everyone, i dont understand why people cant figure that out. except for the problem with battlegrounds is it is usually balanced for pvp and much harder to gank people and we all know that people that love pvp dont love it for the competition, they love it so they can gank people lower level or otherwise not as powerful so they can be assholes. in every game ive played give a pvper some competition and they run for the hills and go find another newb to kill over and over.
Oh, well then he's right. Thank you for pointing that out to me
For epic fleet battles like some of the fleet battles in the Star Wars movies, battle grounds is probably the best way to recreate the impact of those movies.
As to what else might be in the game, who knows except the developers.
I love PvP and I'm quite happy with this news tbh. I hope they combine this option with PvP and RPvP servers as mentioned above, but I won't lose sleep if they don't.
I'm a fairly casual player but playstyle aside, I find open world PvP is far to heavily influenced by:
The number of players on a given side
Their level and kit
The amount of time they have to prepare and invest
None of these factors equate to skill in the classical sense and this, combined with the inevitable ganking, makes open world PvP a real turn-off for many players.
Aryas
Playing: Ableton Live 8
~ ragequitcancelsubdeletegamesmashcomputerkillself ~
PvP really only factors into a small portion of players in a normal MMO
My outlook on this is as simple as my wishes for this game...
Good Community: Enjoying 80% of the folks you play around makes the game worth playing. If you have ever played a game with one, you'll know what I mean here...
Exploration: Yes, there's going to be tons of planets with quest-hubs, I want just as many hole-in-the-wall planets I can go check stuff out in for no other reason than I got time to kill.
Responsive Devs, Good Moderators: I don't need a restaurant server, but I would like to see Community Mgrs that remain visible on the boards and Mods that actually moderate the tone of the boards. This goes a long way toward a healthy community.
Consentual PvP and/or Consentual PvP zones, but alot of it: Games are supposed to be fun and getting ganked is only fun for the ganker(s). However, PvP is fun and there should be a wealth of scenarios to experience and not all ground based.
Diverse/Solid/Balanced/ Relatively Bug-Free Gameplay: This is a given, but nowhere near as often implemented by game companies as it should be. Bioware has a good history though so we should be good here.
Lastly, a story that has visible effects that everyone can see.
This should be a living, breathing story. Every town and outpost should not look the same a year after launch as they do the day of launch.
Destroyed areas should show signs of rebuilding.. some outposts should have gotten larger while others be damaged due to nearby skirmishes.
If this game can do those things, I would call it dynamic.
i will be interested to here what the "warzones" actually are also. I have to admit my first reaction was not to think warzones=battlegrounds but another wow-esque tool to facilitate pvp. Its been awhile since i played wow but in the last expansion they had quests and rewards around a part of a zone that required you to be flagged for pvp to complete. The area had both faction npc's and literally tried to funnel players there to fight. My initial thought is that a planet warzone would be like that with areas dividing the levels or instancing dividing the levels.
I figured if we are assuming i'd offer my assumption.
What i would really like to see is that concept of pvp -flagging questing linked to the WAR public quests. If a scenario unfolds infront of you that is dynamic and interactive while facilitating pvp....i think that would go along way to get more pve oriented players (like me) to get into pvp open world.
The masses never played a good Open world PvP game, so the masses don't know if they would like it or not?
The success of Eve shows that the masses could like a system like that, most people that try it get hooked.
But then Bioware is not the company aiming at an open world PvP scenario game with all their story telling, i never expected anything else then announced at E3...
EVE only has 350k subs. Bioware is playing in the big leagues.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
You know at first I was like yet another hyperbole post. I mean playing SWG NGE over TOR? I figured there's no way you're serious.
Then you said you were going go and play Resident Evil 2 when RE4 is better than RE2 in pretty much every single possible way. And it all started to make sense.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
Bullshit, they just said there would be pvp 'Warzones' where Team vs Team pvp takes place.
Nothing on instancing, whether they are battlegrounds or whether they are the only form of pvp.
And for you information, yes there will be battlegrounds, that has been confirmed earlier, there will also be open PvP, so don't get your panties in a bunch when they do release actual details on a system saying it will be the only thing there.
Seriously, you people...
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Everything is instanced just depends if there is one or many.....
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
"Borrowing ideas from other well-established titles, Bioware went on to discuss the game's crafting and PvP systems. Crafting will be "unique but WoW-like", though no specific details have yet been published on it. For PvP, the game will feature some large open PvP areas in addition to instanced warzones. These are intended to act like World of Warcraft's battlegrounds, pitting teams against each other in instanced matches. Transitioning from the game world into an instance is smooth, with absolutely no load time. If it weren't for the glowing green area, you might not even realise you'd entered an instance."
http://www.massively.com/2010/06/15/bioware-discuss-swtor-player-ships-group-gameplay-and-pvp-at-e3/
So that for the most part clears it up. There will not be any full blown open world pvp anywhere you want. There will be certain specific areas where you can engage in large open pvp in addition to instanced warzones.
So if you ask me that sounds sorta like a Warhammer style setup. Specific areas to pvp in and instanced warzones to round it all off.
Oh and its also worth pointing out this..
"Battlegrounds will be the primary focus of PvP combat in SWTOR."
http://www.massively.com/2010/06/14/e3-reveal-player-spaceships-and-pvp-battlegrounds-in-swto/
Whenever someone says, "oh this is just WoW with ______" my eyes instantly glaze over and violent images begin to flash behind my eyes.
I think I need to see a doctor.
Yeah gaiz DIS IS CONFIRMED FEETURE there is NO CHANCE BioWare will reveal more about PvP in the NEXT YEAR of development, inclooding possibility of open-world RvR. Especially since Mythic part of BioWare, NO CHANCE there will be RvR. What does Mythic have to do wif RvR? SRSLY. BioWare just made big planets for instanced, story-based QUESTING! DAT'Z IT! NO chance of anyfing to do wit PvP in those open spaces.
^ I talked like a WoW kiddie because I know there are plenty of "this is a WoW clone" sentiments in this thread without even reading it.
Where do you read that they are instanced?
I can't recall them saying any such thing. And then you annouce it like it were the end of the world.
Lol...As I just said in the "fun thread" about games...
This guy took a quote, changed it to favor what he thinks (it could be right, it could be wrong), and treated it as fact. Even worse, some people believe him.
They said alderan is a warzone. The entire planet could be a pvp area. It could mean, you land, and the outpost you land in could have friendly NPCs but you could still be attacked. It could mean any outpost can be controlled by either side if captured. It could mean you land on the planet and can only then queue for an instanced battleground that is on a random part of the planet.
One of my buddies said he saw the g4tv 30 minute ingame footage, but I haven't stopped watching g4tv and haven't seen anything, and no sites have any info at all, except gamyspy saying there are some quests that involve killing rats.