This is more Lucas' fault. He made the horrible prequels that were focussed on kids and mindless action. Lightsabers were so overused that they started to became dull and uninteresting. All the mystical aspects of Jedi were dropped for cool moves and mindless action. For those who do think the prequels were good:
I beg you to watch this as it sums up the flaws of the prequels perfectly:
The newest cinematic trailer for SWTOR shows a Jedi beating the stuffing out of a Sith using force pushes and something that looks like a hadouken. What happened to "A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack"?
Go outside pick a fight with 3 people and see how far you get just by defending yourself. At this time and era in the Star Wars timeline its a war on a universal scale, and the jedi and sith arent as they are portraited in the movies. And maybe George Luckas likes street fighter, or his kids do. If they could but Jar-Jar in the movies they can sure use a Hadouken
I don't see why this would be a problem. I kinda like Star Wars, but I am by no means a fan and obviously no Star Wars lore junk either. What I care for is that I will have an MMO that is fun to play.
This is akin to the argument on LotRO's Rune-Keeper class, which is judged to be non-Tolkien-esque for its overt use of magic. However, its introduction made the game much more fun for me, despite the lore argument. The same goes for SW:TOR. If gameplay can be made that much more fun for the price of a slight deviation from the lore, I say go for it.
Is that why LOTRO is doing so well it has gone F2P?
I hate when people say this. LotRO is going to a hybrid model because they saw success with DDO. Now if they will see similar success or not is a matter for another debate, but they are switching in the hopes to make money, not because they are doing poorly. They have never had a server merge and the populations are still fairly good. Please don't spread misinformation.
Fair comment, though I'm sure you will concede that the *rate* of new content, especially in terms of land mass, had slowed to the pace of a dead snail. I guess I am saying that if it was flourishing as a subscription game, then they wouldn't have dreamed of rocking the boat by changing the financial model. Hence, it was definitely not flourishing. So, not exactly misinformation.
Is that why LOTRO is doing so well it has gone F2P?
I hate when people say this. LotRO is going to a hybrid model because they saw success with DDO. Now if they will see similar success or not is a matter for another debate, but they are switching in the hopes to make money, not because they are doing poorly. They have never had a server merge and the populations are still fairly good. Please don't spread misinformation.
Fair comment, though I'm sure you will concede that the *rate* of new content, especially in terms of land mass, had slowed to the pace of a dead snail. I guess I am saying that if it was flourishing as a subscription game, then they wouldn't have dreamed of rocking the boat by changing the financial model. Hence, it was definitely not flourishing. So, not exactly misinformation.
I will say this. I agree that it was not gaining tons of new subscribers (and probably stagnating/losing some) as I doubt many MMOs other than WoW ever do. I will also say that content was coming out slower and slower. I do think the economic issues have affected them. I don't know if they would have chosen to do this or not and suspect it would depend on what they were gaining. I think, no matter if they were right or wrong, they looked at DDO getting 5x revenue and said if we did that to LotRO we would be doing SUPER. I didn't mean to jump down your throat right there. I was deep in the Hybrid model debates a few days ago and am staying away from it now because I was getting like that.
I continued with the LotRO comments because I do think that LotRO has two things that have kept people there and that SW:TOR needs and felt it would be a good segway. It had a good story and a good community. So many people in that game have said how great it is that LotRO sticks to the lore or tries to work with it and so many have been impressed with the community there.
Now to be completely honest, I don't think it is possible to follow 100% canon for Bioware and don't expect them to. I think it's great that people are asking for certain details, but I personally think its silly to get upset if they aren't there (as long as the game feels mostly Star Wars). I think there is just too much out there and too much is confusing. I liked the trailer personally and am excited about the game. However, I do want to make sure this game is Star Wars. I don't doubt that Bioware will deliver, but until they do I think people should keep pushing for this and that, with the knowledge that it may not end up there.
I don't understand why people have such the wrong idea about jedi here. Maybe it's because a lot of you tend to hold the jedi to your own standards of what exactly they are and what they're allowed to do and critisize any deviation from your standards.
Simple fact of the matter. The jedi in "Hope" used what she had at her disposal, with good intetions, to stop evil. Nuff said.
The force is a powerful tool; One that when used can corrupt its user to do things he may normally deem wrong, as would any tool that gives one power over others. Jedi and Sith are religions meant to teach users of the force how it should be used. There have been been many force users in the Star Wars universe that have not followed either dogma. Infact there is even another less known group who fits in the middle grey area of these two "black and white" issues. My point in saying all that is that force users are not bound in what they do by some unseen force called Jedi and Sith. They are only names of the dogma tought to them. During the Old Republic era it seemed to me from playing KOTOR that Jedi were far less into the dogma than they were about getting the job done. That all said, this is Just my interpretation of things mosty based on the movies and the Kotor games. I have not delved into the books much.
I don't understand why people have such the wrong idea about jedi here. Maybe it's because a lot of you tend to hold the jedi to your own standards of what exactly they are and what they're allowed to do and critisize any deviation from your standards.
Simple fact of the matter. The jedi in "Hope" used what she had at her disposal, with good intetions, to stop evil. Nuff said.
I don't understand how you can have the "wrong" idea about Jedi as well. Really the Jedi in the books and movies have said time and again that good intentions mean little and that they can lead to the Dark Side all the same. Jacen Solo had good intentions, but in the end the means he employed drove him to the Dark Side of the Force.
A lot of people tend to look at the Force from a realistic point of view and to allow for shades of grey, but this was not how Lucas intended it and has shown time and agan in the stories that this thinking is what causes those Jedi to fall.
I don't understand why people have such the wrong idea about jedi here. Maybe it's because a lot of you tend to hold the jedi to your own standards of what exactly they are and what they're allowed to do and critisize any deviation from your standards.
Simple fact of the matter. The jedi in "Hope" used what she had at her disposal, with good intetions, to stop evil. Nuff said.
I don't understand how you can have the "wrong" idea about Jedi as well. Really the Jedi in the books and movies have said time and again that good intentions mean little and that they can lead to the Dark Side all the same. Jacen Solo had good intentions, but in the end the means he employed drove him to the Dark Side of the Force.
A lot of people tend to look at the Force from a realistic point of view and to allow for shades of grey, but this was not how Lucas intended it and has shown time and agan in the stories that this thinking is what causes those Jedi to fall.
Actually Jacen chose the dark side. He chose to become Sith. Did you read the books? He was mislead into believing becoming Sith would bring about a peaceful galaxy. That's not exactly good intentions, choosing the dark side. I don't care if it was for his daughter, he know what the dark side was about. He murdered Luke's wife to do so.
As for the video, certainly there is no mistaking her intentions and choices.
I don't understand why people have such the wrong idea about jedi here. Maybe it's because a lot of you tend to hold the jedi to your own standards of what exactly they are and what they're allowed to do and critisize any deviation from your standards.
Simple fact of the matter. The jedi in "Hope" used what she had at her disposal, with good intetions, to stop evil. Nuff said.
I don't understand how you can have the "wrong" idea about Jedi as well. Really the Jedi in the books and movies have said time and again that good intentions mean little and that they can lead to the Dark Side all the same. Jacen Solo had good intentions, but in the end the means he employed drove him to the Dark Side of the Force.
A lot of people tend to look at the Force from a realistic point of view and to allow for shades of grey, but this was not how Lucas intended it and has shown time and agan in the stories that this thinking is what causes those Jedi to fall.
Actually Jacen chose the dark side. He chose to become Sith. Did you read the books? He was mislead into believing becoming Sith would bring about a peaceful galaxy. That's not exactly good intentions, choosing the dark side. I don't care if it was for his daughter, he know what the dark side was about. He murdered Luke's wife to do so.
As for the video, certainly there is no mistaking her intentions and choices.
He chose to become a Sith, not to join the Dark Side. Yes I have read the books and I know what he did. He had been slipping towards that way since the end of the Yuuzhan Vong war and had constantly had this notion that the means were justified by the ends. Embracing the teachings of the Sith was just one more mean to an end. He wanted to save his daugher and create peace and that drove him throughout, but at the beginning it was about protecting all of those he cared for. He saw Luke dying and wanted to stop it. He saw war destroying everything and wanted to defend the galaxy.
The newest cinematic trailer for SWTOR shows a Jedi beating the stuffing out of a Sith using force pushes and something that looks like a hadouken. What happened to "A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack"?
Ummm... have you ever seen a Star Wars movie? Seriously.
A better question might be if he's ever played a Star Wars game. None of the movies contradict this so flagrantly without Dark Side temptation going on, whilst the games do so all the time.
Speaking of other games: the attack she used was very much like a little Dark Side power from Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II called Force Destruction.
Favorites: EQ, EVE | Playing: None. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CU, Pantheon
At the risk of sounding like a Bioware/SWTOR fanboy, I have to say this. People will find anything to cry about in SWTOR.
Just stop reading into it, at least until release day...
This is aweful advice. This is the kind of thing that makes players compliant with what they have and then get upset when the game doesn't live up to what they were hoping for. Now I am looking forward to this game, but if someone has a concern about it then they should be voicing it now while the game is being made, not after it is released.
In KotOR and KotOR 2 Jedi's were able to use Force Push, Force Breach, Force Wave, and Force Whirlwind. They used the Force to beat faces in all the time. Force Lightning and a few others were the only ones that gave dark side points. So why would it be different in TOR?
And does anyone else find it crazy that first people were crying about the game not having enough action and that it couldn't be as fun as WoW because it focused too much on story. And now people are crying that the game is too much action and fighting and too much like WoW. If the sky isn't falling then ground is floating away.
First I would like to point out that Yoda moved a starfigther with the force.
"Judge me by my size do you? Where you should not." - Yoda
You cannot limit the force with judgements otherwise it becomes true. Judging the starfighter too big is a limitation.
"You must unlearn what you have learned." - Yoda
Judging is a learned trait most of you have, unlearn it and realize that Jedi are more than just tough guys.
Second, to assume Jedi's are pacifists is not the definition of a protector. Look at America, the largest most free country in the world that has literally helped more people in its short life than all other countries on the planet combined. Protecting America's most valuable treasure, freedom and liberty, cannot be done by sitting back and watching. Jedi's are a lot like Americans, we have a great deal of power (missiles, bombs, knowledge) but we do not go around conquering everyone and forcing them into servitude. Instead, we encourage, assist, rebuild, and show compassion.
Third, Jedi's protect others and ensure freedom from oppressors, key word is freedom. Some day perhaps talking can correct negitively impacting personalities but right now the course of nature has ensured that it is through self-empowerment and strength.
Lastly, Yoda moved a starfighter, he was old, and he said himself, "My ally is the force and a powerful ally it is." he also said he was not that strong in the force. Remember?
I was happily aggreeing with what you were syaing until you posted about America being the protectors of freedom and liberty... seriously, you show compassion through assistance and rebuilding?? That might have been the idea hundres of years ago, but I think the aggressive political stance of America sicne WW2 has shown them to be nothing more than school yard bullies and murderers.
Heres a list of America's theatres of aggression since world war 2.
China 1945-46, 1950-53
Korea 1950-53
Guatemala 1954, 1960, 1967-69
Indonesia 1958
Cuba 1959-61
Congo 1964
Peru 1965
Laos 1964-73
Vietnam 1961-73
Cambodia 1969-70
Lebanon 1983-84
Grenada 1983
Libya 1986
El Salvador 1980s
Nicaragua 1980s
Panama 1989
Sudan 1998
Afghanistan
Iraq
And if you believe the political bullshit forced down your throats about WHY they did what they did, well you're a sad individual. Its all about domination, political interest, oil, money, power and their quoted New World Order.
And I think we all know who really blew up the Twin Towers to escalate the war... Good O'l Boy Bush! Hooray for the US of Aggression!!
SO lets keep comparisons between the Jedi, Star Wars, and the real world to a minimum please. This is a forum about gaming, not about patting the Star Spangled Banner on the back for murdering people.
I was spot on, sorry you feel that way. However, I am not going to respond to your post or similar posts again. I will, however, post what I like as it pertains to gaming, which this does.
First I would like to point out that Yoda moved a starfigther with the force.
"Judge me by my size do you? Where you should not." - Yoda
You cannot limit the force with judgements otherwise it becomes true. Judging the starfighter too big is a limitation.
"You must unlearn what you have learned." - Yoda
Judging is a learned trait most of you have, unlearn it and realize that Jedi are more than just tough guys.
Second, to assume Jedi's are pacifists is not the definition of a protector. Look at America, the largest most free country in the world that has literally helped more people in its short life than all other countries on the planet combined. Protecting America's most valuable treasure, freedom and liberty, cannot be done by sitting back and watching. Jedi's are a lot like Americans, we have a great deal of power (missiles, bombs, knowledge) but we do not go around conquering everyone and forcing them into servitude. Instead, we encourage, assist, rebuild, and show compassion.
Third, Jedi's protect others and ensure freedom from oppressors, key word is freedom. Some day perhaps talking can correct negitively impacting personalities but right now the course of nature has ensured that it is through self-empowerment and strength.
Lastly, Yoda moved a starfighter, he was old, and he said himself, "My ally is the force and a powerful ally it is." he also said he was not that strong in the force. Remember?
An interesting point of view. Philisophically, I would argue that this is not the way the Jedi have felt in many instances, but this is neither the time nor the place. The one thing I disagree with is saying that Yoda said he wasn't strong in the Force. I don't think he ever said that. He may have believed that he had betters, but I think he knew he was among the most powerful Jedi in the council.
Towards the bottom just search the page for "Strong am I"
He was saying he was not strong enough to overcome death. There is a huge difference between that and thinking you are not strong in the Force. Really he was probably stating that no one could ever be that strong.
Luke had just told him he couldn't die and he laughed and said that quote.
I was eluding to the point that Jedi's could be more powerful than Yoda...
Comments
This is more Lucas' fault. He made the horrible prequels that were focussed on kids and mindless action. Lightsabers were so overused that they started to became dull and uninteresting. All the mystical aspects of Jedi were dropped for cool moves and mindless action. For those who do think the prequels were good:
I beg you to watch this as it sums up the flaws of the prequels perfectly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKtZmQgxrI
I try to pretend the prequels were never made...
Go outside pick a fight with 3 people and see how far you get just by defending yourself. At this time and era in the Star Wars timeline its a war on a universal scale, and the jedi and sith arent as they are portraited in the movies. And maybe George Luckas likes street fighter, or his kids do. If they could but Jar-Jar in the movies they can sure use a Hadouken
I don't see why this would be a problem. I kinda like Star Wars, but I am by no means a fan and obviously no Star Wars lore junk either. What I care for is that I will have an MMO that is fun to play.
This is akin to the argument on LotRO's Rune-Keeper class, which is judged to be non-Tolkien-esque for its overt use of magic. However, its introduction made the game much more fun for me, despite the lore argument. The same goes for SW:TOR. If gameplay can be made that much more fun for the price of a slight deviation from the lore, I say go for it.
Fair comment, though I'm sure you will concede that the *rate* of new content, especially in terms of land mass, had slowed to the pace of a dead snail. I guess I am saying that if it was flourishing as a subscription game, then they wouldn't have dreamed of rocking the boat by changing the financial model. Hence, it was definitely not flourishing. So, not exactly misinformation.
I will say this. I agree that it was not gaining tons of new subscribers (and probably stagnating/losing some) as I doubt many MMOs other than WoW ever do. I will also say that content was coming out slower and slower. I do think the economic issues have affected them. I don't know if they would have chosen to do this or not and suspect it would depend on what they were gaining. I think, no matter if they were right or wrong, they looked at DDO getting 5x revenue and said if we did that to LotRO we would be doing SUPER. I didn't mean to jump down your throat right there. I was deep in the Hybrid model debates a few days ago and am staying away from it now because I was getting like that.
I continued with the LotRO comments because I do think that LotRO has two things that have kept people there and that SW:TOR needs and felt it would be a good segway. It had a good story and a good community. So many people in that game have said how great it is that LotRO sticks to the lore or tries to work with it and so many have been impressed with the community there.
Now to be completely honest, I don't think it is possible to follow 100% canon for Bioware and don't expect them to. I think it's great that people are asking for certain details, but I personally think its silly to get upset if they aren't there (as long as the game feels mostly Star Wars). I think there is just too much out there and too much is confusing. I liked the trailer personally and am excited about the game. However, I do want to make sure this game is Star Wars. I don't doubt that Bioware will deliver, but until they do I think people should keep pushing for this and that, with the knowledge that it may not end up there.
I don't understand why people have such the wrong idea about jedi here. Maybe it's because a lot of you tend to hold the jedi to your own standards of what exactly they are and what they're allowed to do and critisize any deviation from your standards.
Simple fact of the matter. The jedi in "Hope" used what she had at her disposal, with good intetions, to stop evil. Nuff said.
The force is a powerful tool; One that when used can corrupt its user to do things he may normally deem wrong, as would any tool that gives one power over others. Jedi and Sith are religions meant to teach users of the force how it should be used. There have been been many force users in the Star Wars universe that have not followed either dogma. Infact there is even another less known group who fits in the middle grey area of these two "black and white" issues. My point in saying all that is that force users are not bound in what they do by some unseen force called Jedi and Sith. They are only names of the dogma tought to them. During the Old Republic era it seemed to me from playing KOTOR that Jedi were far less into the dogma than they were about getting the job done. That all said, this is Just my interpretation of things mosty based on the movies and the Kotor games. I have not delved into the books much.
I don't understand how you can have the "wrong" idea about Jedi as well. Really the Jedi in the books and movies have said time and again that good intentions mean little and that they can lead to the Dark Side all the same. Jacen Solo had good intentions, but in the end the means he employed drove him to the Dark Side of the Force.
A lot of people tend to look at the Force from a realistic point of view and to allow for shades of grey, but this was not how Lucas intended it and has shown time and agan in the stories that this thinking is what causes those Jedi to fall.
Both of the video's so far have included fighting styles no Jedi would use and both were very aggressive in there style.
But as others say its all about marketing action and OOOOOOO's and boy did I OOOOOOOO when she comes on the scene.
Actually Jacen chose the dark side. He chose to become Sith. Did you read the books? He was mislead into believing becoming Sith would bring about a peaceful galaxy. That's not exactly good intentions, choosing the dark side. I don't care if it was for his daughter, he know what the dark side was about. He murdered Luke's wife to do so.
As for the video, certainly there is no mistaking her intentions and choices.
He chose to become a Sith, not to join the Dark Side. Yes I have read the books and I know what he did. He had been slipping towards that way since the end of the Yuuzhan Vong war and had constantly had this notion that the means were justified by the ends. Embracing the teachings of the Sith was just one more mean to an end. He wanted to save his daugher and create peace and that drove him throughout, but at the beginning it was about protecting all of those he cared for. He saw Luke dying and wanted to stop it. He saw war destroying everything and wanted to defend the galaxy.
In the end there was only the Dark Side.
The Sith had broken her light-sabre...what was she supposed to use? Harsh language?
+1 internet points for the "Aliens" reference.
Sigh...people are getting desperate for things to bash about a game still 9 months plus from launch. I don't get it.
This is a good point, Could have been last restort kinda thing.
At the risk of sounding like a Bioware/SWTOR fanboy, I have to say this. People will find anything to cry about in SWTOR.
Just stop reading into it, at least until release day...
(Akiraosc)
A better question might be if he's ever played a Star Wars game. None of the movies contradict this so flagrantly without Dark Side temptation going on, whilst the games do so all the time.
Speaking of other games: the attack she used was very much like a little Dark Side power from Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II called Force Destruction.
This is aweful advice. This is the kind of thing that makes players compliant with what they have and then get upset when the game doesn't live up to what they were hoping for. Now I am looking forward to this game, but if someone has a concern about it then they should be voicing it now while the game is being made, not after it is released.
In KotOR and KotOR 2 Jedi's were able to use Force Push, Force Breach, Force Wave, and Force Whirlwind. They used the Force to beat faces in all the time. Force Lightning and a few others were the only ones that gave dark side points. So why would it be different in TOR?
And does anyone else find it crazy that first people were crying about the game not having enough action and that it couldn't be as fun as WoW because it focused too much on story. And now people are crying that the game is too much action and fighting and too much like WoW. If the sky isn't falling then ground is floating away.
What happened to "He betrayed and murdered your father"?
I was spot on, sorry you feel that way. However, I am not going to respond to your post or similar posts again. I will, however, post what I like as it pertains to gaming, which this does.
I was eluding to the point that Jedi's could be more powerful than Yoda...