Why are people making excuses for not having a jump feature? Give 'reasons' why they shouldn't.. all you've got is stuff like jumping in combat is silly? well, it could be disabled in combat.
Everyone saying its meaningless and they don't care, 'it's just an emote'.. well they might as well take every single emote and cosmetic feature, such as clothing, out of the game then.. none of it matters in the slightest.. hell, why not take out combat animations and spell effects, we can still kill stuff but seeing your arm swinging isn't really needed to kill its so let not bother eh? might as well all go back to pen and paper and MUD games...
Heres a good enough reason why we should be able to jump:
Some people like having a jump feature, they should try to make everyone happy to get more subscribers.. the feature can only have a positive effect.
I think the majority of the FF fan base doesn't want to watch others bunny hop all the time. Also we should be reminded that this is a Japanese game, not a western game and to them this is not something that is important. The way Japanese gamers view games are quite a bit different than western gamers...hince why shooters are not very popular over there but they are here, they just see value in different things.
I personally love the direction they are going. Jumping means nothing to me (besides watching 100 people in a MMO town constantly jump and be annoying). If they add it I really don't care, if they don't add it...I really don't care =P
EDIT: and holy crap I just noticed this thread was 45 pages, ridiculous.
45 pages ALSO means theres someone to argue with! Meaning theres people who dont want it.
Edit ahh crap i missed the quote to who i was really replying too.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Why are people making excuses for not having a jump feature? Give 'reasons' why they shouldn't.. all you've got is stuff like jumping in combat is silly? well, it could be disabled in combat.
Everyone saying its meaningless and they don't care, 'it's just an emote'.. well they might as well take every single emote and cosmetic feature, such as clothing, out of the game then.. none of it matters in the slightest.. hell, why not take out combat animations and spell effects, we can still kill stuff but seeing your arm swinging isn't really needed to kill its so let not bother eh? might as well all go back to pen and paper and MUD games...
Heres a good enough reason why we should be able to jump:
Some people like having a jump feature, they should try to make everyone happy to get more subscribers.. the feature can only have a positive effect.
Yes, that's a very convincing argument.
Heh.
and thats a stupid reply to my comment..
my point is that the reasons for people wanting it doesn't matter.. if they want it and giving it to them doesn't affect anyone else then I see no reason not to..
if you can't see that I was trying to say that then your a bit thick really ain't ya?
But it does effect others so your point is invalid.
Well that 'is' my point, if it effects them in a negative way then it shouldn't be included. But I personally don't see how it could be negative, even if people don't like it when others end up hopping around it won't matter because if they can't hop they will keep waving.. or run in circles.. or keep casting heals/buffs on themselves.. or whatever they do to scratch that itch...
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thats a pathetic response to not having jump. Having better graphics doesn't do anything either...
They spend so much time improving the graphics over the old one, to make it more current and realisitic looking... and take away a basic function of all games!! realism is removed and frustration is added when they do things like this. Gears of war suffers from this for me. I love Gears, but if you could jump, not have to crouch and run at the same time and pull the camera back a little more it would be a 10/10 game instead of a 9.5/10.
They need to realise how much difference a basic a jump function can make on the feel of the game... LAZY!
Yes, because graphics is really the only thing they've improved from XI /rolls eyes.
This subject is a perfect example of people butting heads over the glass half full, half empty logic. Neither is wrong on their stance.
Though I find it very comical heartless, a person who obviously has no interest in XIV, belittle a game he knows almost nothing about because it lacks a feature he seems to need more then an addict on crystal meth. Most determined troll I've come across in awhile.
I don't really understand why you think I have no interest in the game.. i'v played every single FF game and am hoping this will be the game to bring me back to MMO's (I stopped recently, got a bit bored).
Saying I know almost nothing about the game was a bit of an assumption as well, seen as some 'lucky' people have been testing alpha for a while now.... chances are I know more than most.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thats a pathetic response to not having jump. Having better graphics doesn't do anything either...
They spend so much time improving the graphics over the old one, to make it more current and realisitic looking... and take away a basic function of all games!! realism is removed and frustration is added when they do things like this. Gears of war suffers from this for me. I love Gears, but if you could jump, not have to crouch and run at the same time and pull the camera back a little more it would be a 10/10 game instead of a 9.5/10.
They need to realise how much difference a basic a jump function can make on the feel of the game... LAZY!
Yes, because graphics is really the only thing they've improved from XI /rolls eyes.
This subject is a perfect example of people butting heads over the glass half full, half empty logic. Neither is wrong on their stance.
Though I find it very comical heartless, a person who obviously has no interest in XIV, belittle a game he knows almost nothing about because it lacks a feature he seems to need more then an addict on crystal meth. Most determined troll I've come across in awhile.
I don't really understand why you think I have no interest in the game.. i'v played every single FF game and am hoping this will be the game to bring me back to MMO's (I stopped recently, got a bit bored).
Saying I know almost nothing about the game was a bit of an assumption as well, seen as some 'lucky' people have been testing alpha for a while now.... chances are I know more than most.
Sorry, that wasn't aimed at you. But heartless. "Though I find it very comical heartless, ...."
Thats a pathetic response to not having jump. Having better graphics doesn't do anything either...
They spend so much time improving the graphics over the old one, to make it more current and realisitic looking... and take away a basic function of all games!! realism is removed and frustration is added when they do things like this. Gears of war suffers from this for me. I love Gears, but if you could jump, not have to crouch and run at the same time and pull the camera back a little more it would be a 10/10 game instead of a 9.5/10.
They need to realise how much difference a basic a jump function can make on the feel of the game... LAZY!
Yes, because graphics is really the only thing they've improved from XI /rolls eyes.
This subject is a perfect example of people butting heads over the glass half full, half empty logic. Neither is wrong on their stance.
Though I find it very comical heartless, a person who obviously has no interest in XIV, belittle a game he knows almost nothing about because it lacks a feature he seems to need more then an addict on crystal meth. Most determined troll I've come across in awhile.
I don't really understand why you think I have no interest in the game.. i'v played every single FF game and am hoping this will be the game to bring me back to MMO's (I stopped recently, got a bit bored).
Saying I know almost nothing about the game was a bit of an assumption as well, seen as some 'lucky' people have been testing alpha for a while now.... chances are I know more than most.
Sorry, that wasn't aimed at you. But heartless. "Though I find it very comical heartless, ...."
My bad for the confusion.
Ah, right, I thought that 'heartless' was a typo or something. My first reply to you wouldn't have been so aggresive if I'd have realised that.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
I accept the fact that there are two polar sides to this issue, but it really is a lost cause for the peeps on the side of pro-jumping. SEs made up their mind, so they'll just have to live with it and accept the game and its other features, or wait for something that has their precious.
Personally I think not including jump in the game is just plain LAZY. Games that do not contain a jump feature feel like you are back in the 1990s again playing mario (wait.. that game had jump..). Introducing jump to the game would make them have to go through and fix all the spot players could get into trouble, thats the only reason not to include such a basic and essential system for depth. I call shennanigans... again.
Run your paths and stay in line children and do not attempt to go where you are not scripted to be.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized" "The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
Personally I think not including jump in the game is just plain LAZY. Games that do not contain a jump feature feel like you are back in the 1990s again playing mario (wait.. that game had jump..). Introducing jump to the game would make them have to go through and fix all the spot players could get into trouble, thats the only reason not to include such a basic and essential system for depth. I call shennanigans... again.
Run your paths and stay in line children and do not attempt to go where you are not scripted to be.
Again, an amusing and ignorant post.
SE never planned on having jump. How is that lazy? It's a mechanic they foresaw as not having any impact on the game and its future content.
By your thought pattern, they should also be branded lazy by not including auto attack. We really seem to be attracting a lot of trolls.
It also allows you to get where you are not meant to be, quit BSing me. I said that the simple fact of having jumping in game creates an incentive to abuse it - I never said it shouldn't be in a game because of said abuse, only for the various other reasons why that development cycle of this game is over, and it's too late to put in. You've tried to put those words in my mouth all day, quoted me a handful of times, and still fail to make your point. Give the hell up already, beacause anywhere you heard it was not from me, and you have failed repeatedly in trying to prove it.
~and if that single tacet is all you have to bring to the table after being made a fool of all day, and regardless of ALL the other information brought to the table, then you don't deserve to even have an opinion.
I'm also starting to think you and Jet are the same person, and if that's the case, you are more pathetic than anyone I have ever encountered here in my life.
If you are not meant to be in an area (jumping or no jumping) then it's a bug, and that my friend is the programers fault and not the players. Besides I get into area's I am not meant to be all the time in a no jumping game, it's called getting stuck. Again a BUG. These things tend to happen / reported more in non-jumping games than they do in jumping games. Most of these never get fixed LoL.
Jumping is not the only thing in a game that get's abused.....EVERYTHING created in a game gives people incentive to abuse it. Again not the players fault but the programmers.
I have a story to tell about the king of all mmos, Worlf of warcraft. One fine day after many days and weeks, months of anticipation from thousands of people including me a game called world of warcraft came out. I enjoyed it very much, as I grew up as a nightelf preist in teldarisil. By the time I made it out of my homeland of teldirisil, I came to the city of darnassus. This is where my problem arose" I dont know if its happened to any one else but in darnassus there is a large water fall. Silly me, being to oberservant, made my way to the water fall and wouldnt you know it, fell right in. I twirled around like a fish on land, ending up into a black hole swirl of colors stuck,in limbo. I thought I was done for. I wasnt though, and I ended up geting unstuck and dieing so I was able to continue on. I was in shock, because It was so weired... I figure out of the millions of people that have played wow, Im the only one that has fallen there. When that happened I new I wasnt in the nice sandbox SWG that had cept me so resiliant and fruitfull . I was in the great battle and new age of theme park mmos.
I do think that no jumping in this game is a bit of a downer. I can only say this from what my thoughts were when I first read about it. More that I think about it, it dosnt matter. If the game is good, then its good, not because theres jumping or not. I still dont see how there can be any kind of obsticles and stuff. I want a mmo like the new prince of persia :sands of time, or gods of war 3. In star wars: the old republic I wana be able to climb everything, I want to be able to do circles in mid air like yoda did in the attack of clones, I want to be able to jump of walls. Why cant we get that kinda of gameplay in an mmo. How long do we have to wait! No one has even scrached the surface, and I think it will be all but forgoton. I guess APB is kinda cool cause it resembles great gameplay that is gta.
You can't even come up with valid reasons why this, or any other, game shouldn't have jumping.
I made plenty, you just seem intent on making me run circles around it.
Exploits and bunny hopping are not valid reasons. Exploits happen with or without jumping a bunny hopping doesn't mean what you think it means.
So, your logic is "They're going to find other ways to exploit anyway, so may as well give them one more way to do it"?
That's pretty weak reasoning in favor of something that, demonstrably, isn't necessary fo a game to be fun, nor successful.
Examples?
Successful MMOS without jumping:
FFXI: An obvious choice, seeing as how FFXIV is its successor. Game has been going strong for 8+ years now, ~500,000 players for at least 7 of those years... Yep, FFXI has maintained a higher population after 7 years than even many newer, shinier MMOs that *do* have jumping have managed to hold on to even within their first year.
Guild Wars - Highly successful MMO, spawned a few expansions and is still going pretty strong. Did not have, nor require, jumping to do so.
Lineage 2 - Though slowing down in the Western market, is still going strong in its global market as a leading game. It's doing well enough to have spawned its own series of "L2 clones". No jumping in the game and at no point is it required.
... and so on ...
How about non-MMOs?
Diablo II - No jumping. Never had it. Never needed it. Hugely successful game regardless.
Dragon Age - No jumping. Doesn't need it. Very successful game regardless.
The Witcher - No jumping. Doesn't need it. Very successful game regardless..
... and so on...
The point is, while jumping is certainly a desired mechanic that many players would like to have, and would allow people to jump to spots instead of running there, it is in no way a "necessary" function for a game to be fun or successful. It is not a necessary function in a game if the game design never requires it.
My personal take is that I'm fine with it one way or the other. There are reasons I would choose to play a game or not and "if it has jumping" is not even on the list of reasons.
Though, to be honest, I lean a bit more to the side of "happy it's not in the game". Frankly, I'd prefer not to see people bouncing around like bunnies on caffeine pills because they can't stand still for 10 seconds. Yes, it's an eye-sore to me. In a dangerous setting like Den of Rancor in FFXI, seeing people jumping around like hyperactive kids would be completely ridiculous. If there were jumping in a game like that and people did it in such dangerous zones, I would hope it would attract attention of mobs and get them killed, so either they wouldn't do it, or the group would kick them to prevent being wiped because of one hyperactive player.
There's also the reason of reducing the opportunities to exploit... And, again, because "they'll be exploiting in other ways anyway" is not a way to justify it. That's like saying "A game might as well allow buying money from RMT companies. They're going to find other ways to cheat anyway". I seriously can't believe you'd use "they're going to exploit anyway" as an argument for jumping and not realize how ridiculous it sounds.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Thats a pathetic response to not having jump. Having better graphics doesn't do anything either...
They spend so much time improving the graphics over the old one, to make it more current and realisitic looking... and take away a basic function of all games!! realism is removed and frustration is added when they do things like this. Gears of war suffers from this for me. I love Gears, but if you could jump, not have to crouch and run at the same time and pull the camera back a little more it would be a 10/10 game instead of a 9.5/10.
They need to realise how much difference a basic a jump function can make on the feel of the game... LAZY!
Yes, because graphics is really the only thing they've improved from XI /rolls eyes.
This subject is a perfect example of people butting heads over the glass half full, half empty logic. Neither is wrong on their stance.
Though I find it very comical heartless, a person who obviously has no interest in XIV, belittle a game he knows almost nothing about because it lacks a feature he seems to need more then an addict on crystal meth. Most determined troll I've come across in awhile.
I don't really understand why you think I have no interest in the game.. i'v played every single FF game and am hoping this will be the game to bring me back to MMO's (I stopped recently, got a bit bored).
Saying I know almost nothing about the game was a bit of an assumption as well, seen as some 'lucky' people have been testing alpha for a while now.... chances are I know more than most.
Sorry, that wasn't aimed at you. But heartless. "Though I find it very comical heartless, ...."
There is no lie that the code of FFXIV is salvaged from FFXI, and no lie that FFXI had no jumping.
There is no lie that the time/money to implement it *now*, and make sure it doesn't just get people stuck on everything they already made (which does not support jumping) is not worth it.
There is no lie that jumping is uncomplimentary to combat.
There is no lie that SE has no experience with it outside of KH, a game that is so radically different from this one that it simply cannot apply.
There is no lie about jumping being *pointless* without predetermined areas where it's necessary.
The only person lying here is you, to yourself, and to the rest of us.
Quit bullshitting and maybe someone will start to take you seriously for once.
You're stating a case for forum posters being completely delusional and ignorant about anything they want out of a game.
When you and others claim that jumping = automatic exploits/bunny hopping/cheating, etc... Those are the lies I'm talking about.
Jumping is not pointless when you're able to jump over fences, boulders and other small obstacles instead of going around them. It's a small and often overlooked feature but It adds to the realism and immersion in a game.
Realism and immersion?
So, in real life, when you come up to a fence, you jump over it - in a single leap - instead of walking to an opening, or a gate?
In real life, if you see a sizeable boulder that you can't simply step over, instead of walking around it, you jump on or over it?
In real life, you're able to jump high enough, consistently, to even make such leaps possible? You assume it's "realistic" that everyone could?
Really?
Are you into Parkour 24/7 or something? Because beyond that, I see nothing "realistic" or "immersive" in being able to jump over fences or boulders as a "common occurence".
There are myriad reasons you could use to support the idea of jumping in a game... but "realism" and "immersion" are really not appropriate.... especially "realism".
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Originally posted by choujiofkono Personally I think not including jump in the game is just plain LAZY.
*Many months ago somewhere at a secret office in Japan, senior developers have a white hat meeting*
Lead developer:
"Gentlemen. We've been working on this game for several years now, day in/out. We've got quite a bit done and this world promises to be significantly larger than our previous effort in FFXI. We've beefed up the classes, enhanced graphics and introduced a new type of system for character progression yet we've been able to retain what we feel is a realistic link to our MMO gaming heritage. Let's put this puppy into Alpha. Any questions comments?
Developer 1: "Toshiro-san, what about jump feature?"
Lead Developer: "What about it?"
Developer 1: "Err.. we didn't put it in there."
Lead Dev: "So? Remember how we planned NOT to put it in there? Were you not paying attention when we discussed that?"
****Cue violins; sad music starts****
Developer 2: "Yes but.. excuse me Toshiro-san... but what about those miniscule amount of people who like to bunnyhop and jumpshoot, or those who just want to be FREE in a game? Shouldn't we think about their feelings? What about individual FREEDOM?!?!?"
Developer 3: (stands up William Wallace style, raises fist and yells) "FREEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!"
Lead Dev: "Hmm.. maybe you guys have a point even though it serves no real purpose. Ok, who wants to design the jump feature and begin to rewrite some code?"
****sound of record skipping/scratching; then crickets*****
Lead Dev: "Just as I thought and like internet Einsteins think.. you're all just too plain lazy to do it! No jump feature! Now, go BACK TO SLEEP"
All developers in unison: "HAI!"
Yeah choujiofokono.. it happened just. Like. That. Laziness.
Personally I think not including jump in the game is just plain LAZY.
Developer 2: "Yes but.. excuse me Toshiro-san... but what about those miniscule amount of people who like to bunnyhop and jumpshoot, or those who just want to be FREE in a game? Shouldn't we think about their feelings? What about individual FREEDOM?!?!?"
And don't forget those ever-present enemies of navigation: Boulders and fences!
What are those things there for if not to be jumped over?! I mean, fine, you're walking along a grassy field and there's a large boulder in your way, so you can't continue going straight. What are you going to do, expect the players to take a few extra steps to walk or run around it? That's outrageous!
What about fences? I mean, what do you think, people should have to walk to an opening in the fence, which will most likely be located along a clearly marked road they could be following and/or at other spots along its length?
And what if they encounter a boulder in their long, tedious 20 second trek to find an opening in the fence? What then? They're supposed to run *around* the boulder *and* find an opening in the fence?
Why... you're serving up a formula for disaster! Make it more realistic! The players should be able to leap on to or over those large boulders in a single bound! They should be able to leap over those fences, clearing them easily... like a gazelle!
Don't even get me started on trees, or high cliffs! Players should be able to jump over those as well! They do nothing but get in the way!
(Yes... I'm being very sarcastic here
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Lead Dev: "Just as I thought and like internet Einsteins think.. you're all just too plain lazy to do it! No jump feature! Now, go BACK TO SLEEP"
*6 months later, at SE HQ Yoichi Wada's office*
Wada: DIRECTOR! Your game failed, and reports say it is due to not implementing jumping. Why did you not do it?
Komoto: Big Boss-san, even though I am the director and can simply order developers to do what I say and they will do it if they want to keep their job, I decided not to because I was too lazy to open my mouth and say three words: "Get to work."
That would make absolutely and utterly no sense whatsoever. Guess what the boss says if you're too lazy to do your job? G T F O.
It is a business for god's sake, not a democracy. You do what your bosses tell you to do. They are the ones to figure out how to spend the resources given to them and where. There is no "laziness". And you can bet on the fact that with the massive amount of responsibility that rests on the director's and lead developer's shoulders, they will do everything they can to make the game a success with the funds given. If they want to keep their high salary job that is.
But who would in this time and age where you can get a new job by snapping your fingers? They must be lazy, knowing that.
I really hope you were joking.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
I was, but there clearly are people in this thread who aren't.
In their world, the only reason jumping ISN'T included in FFXIV is on account of....laziness.
I'd think you'd know who those people are by now and where I stand after a few posts.
Nice, you got me!
You know, there are no resources when making an MMO. No time limitations.. unlimited manpower. Companies should do everything or they fail. Prioritizing is a myth. If a game doesn't have everything and 4 expansions worth of content at release, it's because the developers were lazy. What else could it be?!
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
There is no jumping, IMO due to reality. Do any of you jump down the street to work?
Didn't think so.
Well, if there's a boulder or fence in their way, they obviously do. What other option is there? Go *around* it?
Should people be expected to follow main roads or otherwise clearer routes where such impassible obstructions are less likely to get in the way?
Come on, we're talking *realism* here.
Clearly, they would simply and effortlessly leap up and over that fence. They would make quick work of that boulder by jumping onto it and then off the other side. People do that all the time where I live.
What if there's an active and relatively deep water fountain in the way? Well, they should be able to jump over that as well. Or, jump into it, run across and jump out the other side... Because people do that all the time in reality when a fountain gets in their way.
What if they come up on a platform that's 6 feet high? What then? How are they supposed to get up there? I mean, sure there's a staircase only about 20 strides to their left, but why should they have to go *that* far out of the way and waste all that time, just to go up some stairs? Clearly, it would be much more realistic to jump up to that platform in a single leap.
Doesn't matter that SE has done all this work, added all these features, new creatures, new lore, new storylines, new quests and items and gear, and so on... It doesn't matter that they spent years brainstorming, designing and producing a massive world with all that goes along with it... That they expect people to run around boulders - or perhaps alter their direction by 1 or 2 degrees to avoid running into it in the first place - is unforgivable. That they expect people to run a few extra moments to find openings through a fence, or even use stair-cases is just pure laziness on their part.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Well, if there's a boulder or fence in their way, they obviously do. What other option is there? Go *around* it?
Should people be expected to follow main roads or otherwise clearer routes where such impassible obstructions are less likely to get in the way?
Come on, we're talking *realism* here.
Clearly, they would simply and effortlessly leap up and over that fence. They would make quick work of that boulder by jumping onto it and then off the other side. People do that all the time where I live.
What if there's an active and relatively deep water fountain in the way? Well, they should be able to jump over that as well. Or, jump into it, run across and jump out the other side... Because people do that all the time in reality when a fountain gets in their way.
What if they come up on a platform that's 6 feet high? What then? How are they supposed to get up there? I mean, sure there's a staircase only about 20 strides to their left, but why should they have to go *that* far out of the way and waste all that time, just to go up some stairs? Clearly, it would be much more realistic to jump up to that platform in a single leap.
Doesn't matter that SE has done all this work, added all these features, new creatures, new lore, new storylines, new quests and items and gear, and so on... It doesn't matter that they spent years brainstorming, designing and producing a massive world with all that goes along with it... That they expect people to run around boulders - or perhaps alter their direction by 1 or 2 degrees to avoid running into it in the first place - is unforgivable. That they expect people to run a few extra moments to find openings through a fence, or even use stair-cases is just pure laziness on their part.
YES, REALISM IS A SHITTY ARGUMENT
I once again repeat: Resources and prioritizing are the reasons. That's as simple as it is.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
There is no jumping, IMO due to reality. Do any of you jump down the street to work?
Didn't think so.
Well, if there's a boulder or fence in their way, they obviously do. What other option is there? Go *around* it?
Should people be expected to follow main roads or otherwise clearer routes where such impassible obstructions are less likely to get in the way?
Come on, we're talking *realism* here.
Clearly, they would simply and effortlessly leap up and over that fence. They would make quick work of that boulder by jumping onto it and then off the other side.
What if there's an active and relatively deep water fountain in the way? Well, they should be able to jump over that as well. Or, jump into it, run across and jump out the other side... Because people do that all the time in reality when a fountain gets in their way.
What if they come up on a platform that's 6 feet high? What then? How are they supposed to get up there? I mean, sure there's a staircase only about 20 strides to their left, but why should they have to go *that* far out of the way and waste all that time, just to go up some stairs? Clearly, it would be much more realistic to jump up to that platform in a single leap.
Doesn't matter that SE has done all this work, added all these features, new creatures, new lore, new storylines, new quests and items and gear, and so on... It doesn't matter that they spent years brainstorming, designing and producing a massive world with all that goes along with it... That they expect people to run around boulders - or perhaps alter their direction by 1 or 2 degrees to avoid running into it in the first place - is unforgivable. That they expect people to run a few extra moments to find openings through a fence, or even use stair-cases is just pure laziness on their part.
I'll admit, I've chimed in on this argument before. Now I realize this is the dumbest argument ever.
#1 to not have a simple jump feature is simply the dumbest idea.
Just look at the number of posts on here. The people who argue that it is irrelevant will play the game regardless, but so many will not even consider because of this simple, irrelevant feature.
#2 how one can defend the devs decision to not include it is absurd, but hey....everyone is entitled to their own opinion
#3 Im going to go jump off my balcony into my pool, then Im going to dry off and go take my 4 wheeler over some jumps. then Im going to come home and jumprope, then when I go inside to take a shower Ill make it up the stairs in half the time by jumping over the majority of them. Then Im going to jump my old ladies bones.
Kriss Kross will make you
JUMP JUMP
Mac Daddy make you
JUMP JUMP
Daddy Mac make you
JUMP JUMP
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
There is no lie that the code of FFXIV is salvaged from FFXI, and no lie that FFXI had no jumping.
There is no lie that the time/money to implement it *now*, and make sure it doesn't just get people stuck on everything they already made (which does not support jumping) is not worth it.
There is no lie that jumping is uncomplimentary to combat.
There is no lie that SE has no experience with it outside of KH, a game that is so radically different from this one that it simply cannot apply.
There is no lie about jumping being *pointless* without predetermined areas where it's necessary.
The only person lying here is you, to yourself, and to the rest of us.
Quit bullshitting and maybe someone will start to take you seriously for once.
You're stating a case for forum posters being completely delusional and ignorant about anything they want out of a game.
When you and others claim that jumping = automatic exploits/bunny hopping/cheating, etc... Those are the lies I'm talking about.
Jumping is not pointless when you're able to jump over fences, boulders and other small obstacles instead of going around them. It's a small and often overlooked feature but It adds to the realism and immersion in a game.
Realism and immersion?
So, in real life, when you come up to a fence, you jump over it - in a single leap - instead of walking to an opening, or a gate?
In real life, if you see a sizeable boulder that you can't simply step over, instead of walking around it, you jump on or over it?
In real life, you're able to jump high enough, consistently, to even make such leaps possible? You assume it's "realistic" that everyone could?
Really?
Are you into Parkour 24/7 or something? Because beyond that, I see nothing "realistic" or "immersive" in being able to jump over fences or boulders as a "common occurence".
There are myriad reasons you could use to support the idea of jumping in a game... but "realism" and "immersion" are really not appropriate.... especially "realism".
In real life, the option is always there. That's the point. If I was in a hurry, I'm athletic enough to jump or climb over a fence to get to my destination. People do it all the time in real life when we jump over puddles of water instead of going around them.
I don't expect intricate climbing and jumping like in Assassin's Creed or Prince of Persia but at least something to underline the fact that the game is actually 3 dimensional and gravity is present.
Anyway, people like different things. You may not find jumping immersive but I do. It allows me to relate much more to the game world. I would play a game without jumping but depending on how the game is presented, I do miss it sometimes.
Comments
45 pages ALSO means theres someone to argue with! Meaning theres people who dont want it.
Edit ahh crap i missed the quote to who i was really replying too.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Well that 'is' my point, if it effects them in a negative way then it shouldn't be included. But I personally don't see how it could be negative, even if people don't like it when others end up hopping around it won't matter because if they can't hop they will keep waving.. or run in circles.. or keep casting heals/buffs on themselves.. or whatever they do to scratch that itch...
There aren't peoples who don't want it really. They say that they don't care. You don't see someone saying if they put jumping there I'll quit.
I don't really understand why you think I have no interest in the game.. i'v played every single FF game and am hoping this will be the game to bring me back to MMO's (I stopped recently, got a bit bored).
Saying I know almost nothing about the game was a bit of an assumption as well, seen as some 'lucky' people have been testing alpha for a while now.... chances are I know more than most.
Sorry, that wasn't aimed at you. But heartless. "Though I find it very comical heartless, ...."
My bad for the confusion.
Ah, right, I thought that 'heartless' was a typo or something. My first reply to you wouldn't have been so aggresive if I'd have realised that.
No worries.
I accept the fact that there are two polar sides to this issue, but it really is a lost cause for the peeps on the side of pro-jumping. SEs made up their mind, so they'll just have to live with it and accept the game and its other features, or wait for something that has their precious.
Personally I think not including jump in the game is just plain LAZY. Games that do not contain a jump feature feel like you are back in the 1990s again playing mario (wait.. that game had jump..). Introducing jump to the game would make them have to go through and fix all the spot players could get into trouble, thats the only reason not to include such a basic and essential system for depth. I call shennanigans... again.
Run your paths and stay in line children and do not attempt to go where you are not scripted to be.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
Again, an amusing and ignorant post.
SE never planned on having jump. How is that lazy? It's a mechanic they foresaw as not having any impact on the game and its future content.
By your thought pattern, they should also be branded lazy by not including auto attack. We really seem to be attracting a lot of trolls.
I have a story to tell about the king of all mmos, Worlf of warcraft. One fine day after many days and weeks, months of anticipation from thousands of people including me a game called world of warcraft came out. I enjoyed it very much, as I grew up as a nightelf preist in teldarisil. By the time I made it out of my homeland of teldirisil, I came to the city of darnassus. This is where my problem arose" I dont know if its happened to any one else but in darnassus there is a large water fall. Silly me, being to oberservant, made my way to the water fall and wouldnt you know it, fell right in. I twirled around like a fish on land, ending up into a black hole swirl of colors stuck,in limbo. I thought I was done for. I wasnt though, and I ended up geting unstuck and dieing so I was able to continue on. I was in shock, because It was so weired... I figure out of the millions of people that have played wow, Im the only one that has fallen there. When that happened I new I wasnt in the nice sandbox SWG that had cept me so resiliant and fruitfull . I was in the great battle and new age of theme park mmos.
I do think that no jumping in this game is a bit of a downer. I can only say this from what my thoughts were when I first read about it. More that I think about it, it dosnt matter. If the game is good, then its good, not because theres jumping or not. I still dont see how there can be any kind of obsticles and stuff. I want a mmo like the new prince of persia :sands of time, or gods of war 3. In star wars: the old republic I wana be able to climb everything, I want to be able to do circles in mid air like yoda did in the attack of clones, I want to be able to jump of walls. Why cant we get that kinda of gameplay in an mmo. How long do we have to wait! No one has even scrached the surface, and I think it will be all but forgoton. I guess APB is kinda cool cause it resembles great gameplay that is gta.
So, your logic is "They're going to find other ways to exploit anyway, so may as well give them one more way to do it"?
That's pretty weak reasoning in favor of something that, demonstrably, isn't necessary fo a game to be fun, nor successful.
Examples?
Successful MMOS without jumping:
FFXI: An obvious choice, seeing as how FFXIV is its successor. Game has been going strong for 8+ years now, ~500,000 players for at least 7 of those years... Yep, FFXI has maintained a higher population after 7 years than even many newer, shinier MMOs that *do* have jumping have managed to hold on to even within their first year.
Guild Wars - Highly successful MMO, spawned a few expansions and is still going pretty strong. Did not have, nor require, jumping to do so.
Lineage 2 - Though slowing down in the Western market, is still going strong in its global market as a leading game. It's doing well enough to have spawned its own series of "L2 clones". No jumping in the game and at no point is it required.
... and so on ...
How about non-MMOs?
Diablo II - No jumping. Never had it. Never needed it. Hugely successful game regardless.
Dragon Age - No jumping. Doesn't need it. Very successful game regardless.
The Witcher - No jumping. Doesn't need it. Very successful game regardless..
... and so on...
The point is, while jumping is certainly a desired mechanic that many players would like to have, and would allow people to jump to spots instead of running there, it is in no way a "necessary" function for a game to be fun or successful. It is not a necessary function in a game if the game design never requires it.
My personal take is that I'm fine with it one way or the other. There are reasons I would choose to play a game or not and "if it has jumping" is not even on the list of reasons.
Though, to be honest, I lean a bit more to the side of "happy it's not in the game". Frankly, I'd prefer not to see people bouncing around like bunnies on caffeine pills because they can't stand still for 10 seconds. Yes, it's an eye-sore to me. In a dangerous setting like Den of Rancor in FFXI, seeing people jumping around like hyperactive kids would be completely ridiculous. If there were jumping in a game like that and people did it in such dangerous zones, I would hope it would attract attention of mobs and get them killed, so either they wouldn't do it, or the group would kick them to prevent being wiped because of one hyperactive player.
There's also the reason of reducing the opportunities to exploit... And, again, because "they'll be exploiting in other ways anyway" is not a way to justify it. That's like saying "A game might as well allow buying money from RMT companies. They're going to find other ways to cheat anyway". I seriously can't believe you'd use "they're going to exploit anyway" as an argument for jumping and not realize how ridiculous it sounds.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Who said that I have no interest in this game?
No, my logic is that jumping =/= exploiting.
Realism and immersion?
So, in real life, when you come up to a fence, you jump over it - in a single leap - instead of walking to an opening, or a gate?
In real life, if you see a sizeable boulder that you can't simply step over, instead of walking around it, you jump on or over it?
In real life, you're able to jump high enough, consistently, to even make such leaps possible? You assume it's "realistic" that everyone could?
Really?
Are you into Parkour 24/7 or something? Because beyond that, I see nothing "realistic" or "immersive" in being able to jump over fences or boulders as a "common occurence".
There are myriad reasons you could use to support the idea of jumping in a game... but "realism" and "immersion" are really not appropriate.... especially "realism".
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
*Many months ago somewhere at a secret office in Japan, senior developers have a white hat meeting*
Lead developer:
"Gentlemen. We've been working on this game for several years now, day in/out. We've got quite a bit done and this world promises to be significantly larger than our previous effort in FFXI. We've beefed up the classes, enhanced graphics and introduced a new type of system for character progression yet we've been able to retain what we feel is a realistic link to our MMO gaming heritage. Let's put this puppy into Alpha. Any questions comments?
Developer 1: "Toshiro-san, what about jump feature?"
Lead Developer: "What about it?"
Developer 1: "Err.. we didn't put it in there."
Lead Dev: "So? Remember how we planned NOT to put it in there? Were you not paying attention when we discussed that?"
****Cue violins; sad music starts****
Developer 2: "Yes but.. excuse me Toshiro-san... but what about those miniscule amount of people who like to bunnyhop and jumpshoot, or those who just want to be FREE in a game? Shouldn't we think about their feelings? What about individual FREEDOM?!?!?"
Developer 3: (stands up William Wallace style, raises fist and yells) "FREEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!"
Lead Dev: "Hmm.. maybe you guys have a point even though it serves no real purpose. Ok, who wants to design the jump feature and begin to rewrite some code?"
****sound of record skipping/scratching; then crickets*****
Lead Dev: "Just as I thought and like internet Einsteins think.. you're all just too plain lazy to do it! No jump feature! Now, go BACK TO SLEEP"
All developers in unison: "HAI!"
Yeah choujiofokono.. it happened just. Like. That. Laziness.
"TO MICHAEL!"
And don't forget those ever-present enemies of navigation: Boulders and fences!
What are those things there for if not to be jumped over?! I mean, fine, you're walking along a grassy field and there's a large boulder in your way, so you can't continue going straight. What are you going to do, expect the players to take a few extra steps to walk or run around it? That's outrageous!
What about fences? I mean, what do you think, people should have to walk to an opening in the fence, which will most likely be located along a clearly marked road they could be following and/or at other spots along its length?
And what if they encounter a boulder in their long, tedious 20 second trek to find an opening in the fence? What then? They're supposed to run *around* the boulder *and* find an opening in the fence?
Why... you're serving up a formula for disaster! Make it more realistic! The players should be able to leap on to or over those large boulders in a single bound! They should be able to leap over those fences, clearing them easily... like a gazelle!
Don't even get me started on trees, or high cliffs! Players should be able to jump over those as well! They do nothing but get in the way!
(Yes... I'm being very sarcastic here
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
*6 months later, at SE HQ Yoichi Wada's office*
Wada: DIRECTOR! Your game failed, and reports say it is due to not implementing jumping. Why did you not do it?
Komoto: Big Boss-san, even though I am the director and can simply order developers to do what I say and they will do it if they want to keep their job, I decided not to because I was too lazy to open my mouth and say three words: "Get to work."
That would make absolutely and utterly no sense whatsoever. Guess what the boss says if you're too lazy to do your job? G T F O.
It is a business for god's sake, not a democracy. You do what your bosses tell you to do. They are the ones to figure out how to spend the resources given to them and where. There is no "laziness". And you can bet on the fact that with the massive amount of responsibility that rests on the director's and lead developer's shoulders, they will do everything they can to make the game a success with the funds given. If they want to keep their high salary job that is.
But who would in this time and age where you can get a new job by snapping your fingers? They must be lazy, knowing that.
I really hope you were joking.
I was, but there clearly are people in this thread who aren't.
In their world, the only reason jumping ISN'T included in FFXIV is on account of....laziness.
I'd think you'd know who those people are by now and where I stand after a few posts.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Nice, you got me!
You know, there are no resources when making an MMO. No time limitations.. unlimited manpower. Companies should do everything or they fail. Prioritizing is a myth. If a game doesn't have everything and 4 expansions worth of content at release, it's because the developers were lazy. What else could it be?!
There is no jumping, IMO due to reality. Do any of you jump down the street to work?
Didn't think so.
Intel Core i7 2600k 4.8ghz
Asus P8P67 Pro
8GB Corsair 1600 DDR3
Diamond Radeon 7970 3GB
3x Dell U2412M 6048x1200
2x 1TB Samsung Spinpoint F3 [Raid 0]
Windows 7 Ultimate x64
No, due to resources and prioritizing. That's as simple as it is.
Well, if there's a boulder or fence in their way, they obviously do. What other option is there? Go *around* it?
Should people be expected to follow main roads or otherwise clearer routes where such impassible obstructions are less likely to get in the way?
Come on, we're talking *realism* here.
Clearly, they would simply and effortlessly leap up and over that fence. They would make quick work of that boulder by jumping onto it and then off the other side. People do that all the time where I live.
What if there's an active and relatively deep water fountain in the way? Well, they should be able to jump over that as well. Or, jump into it, run across and jump out the other side... Because people do that all the time in reality when a fountain gets in their way.
What if they come up on a platform that's 6 feet high? What then? How are they supposed to get up there? I mean, sure there's a staircase only about 20 strides to their left, but why should they have to go *that* far out of the way and waste all that time, just to go up some stairs? Clearly, it would be much more realistic to jump up to that platform in a single leap.
Doesn't matter that SE has done all this work, added all these features, new creatures, new lore, new storylines, new quests and items and gear, and so on... It doesn't matter that they spent years brainstorming, designing and producing a massive world with all that goes along with it... That they expect people to run around boulders - or perhaps alter their direction by 1 or 2 degrees to avoid running into it in the first place - is unforgivable. That they expect people to run a few extra moments to find openings through a fence, or even use stair-cases is just pure laziness on their part.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
YES, REALISM IS A SHITTY ARGUMENT
I once again repeat: Resources and prioritizing are the reasons. That's as simple as it is.
I'll admit, I've chimed in on this argument before. Now I realize this is the dumbest argument ever.
#1 to not have a simple jump feature is simply the dumbest idea.
Just look at the number of posts on here. The people who argue that it is irrelevant will play the game regardless, but so many will not even consider because of this simple, irrelevant feature.
#2 how one can defend the devs decision to not include it is absurd, but hey....everyone is entitled to their own opinion
#3 Im going to go jump off my balcony into my pool, then Im going to dry off and go take my 4 wheeler over some jumps. then Im going to come home and jumprope, then when I go inside to take a shower Ill make it up the stairs in half the time by jumping over the majority of them. Then Im going to jump my old ladies bones.
Kriss Kross will make you
JUMP JUMP
Mac Daddy make you
JUMP JUMP
Daddy Mac make you
JUMP JUMP
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
In real life, the option is always there. That's the point. If I was in a hurry, I'm athletic enough to jump or climb over a fence to get to my destination. People do it all the time in real life when we jump over puddles of water instead of going around them.
I don't expect intricate climbing and jumping like in Assassin's Creed or Prince of Persia but at least something to underline the fact that the game is actually 3 dimensional and gravity is present.
Anyway, people like different things. You may not find jumping immersive but I do. It allows me to relate much more to the game world. I would play a game without jumping but depending on how the game is presented, I do miss it sometimes.