If they let me get over that hypothetical fence in my way quickly, and it's not jumping, I'm all for it. Getting rid of the action itself is not a problem, as long as they fill the actual purpose that action has (which is easier movement/access to otherwise inaccessible areas).
That is a complete no-response and a pointless post.
Basically if you think the travel time isn't too long you don't mind, but if you you think the travel time is too long then you havea problem.
Which brings up another issue, trivializing content. Exploiting geometry is often used to bypass mobs and such in MMOs, by removing the plane of action they have also eliminated many common exploits. Is the reduction in the ability to bypass content your complaint?
Also, I couldn't stand that all of my armor looked like S&M attire.
Speak for yourself.
As for the jump option, I'm in the camp of "who cares" since it wouldn't provide any use. Know what game lets you jump like that? SWG. You can hop to your hearts content, it's only an emote tied to the spacebar and has no bearing to how fast you move or whether you can hop on objects. It's totally useless, and you grow tired of bothering with it quickly.
FFXI had a lot of routing through corridors and such, and allowing someone to jump down the steppe into the crevasses may have helped in expediency between some areas, but would have been utterly pointless without platforming segments. Though, the mere having it is the excuse to attempt platforming, but again, if it's just for show like in SWG - what is the point?
Hell, Aika lets you jump, but you can't hop fences that look like you could hop them. In fact, the main starter city has all sorts of places that you should be able to jump down, and all you get is invisible wall. So much for having the option to jump while putting it to use, eh?
I can already tell you Aika does this because they know what you'll get stuck on, and what the easier fix is (the walls). High geometry games, collision and jumping do not mix. Anybody play Red Faction: Guerilla and *not* get stuck here and there?
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
If they let me get over that hypothetical fence in my way quickly, and it's not jumping, I'm all for it. Getting rid of the action itself is not a problem, as long as they fill the actual purpose that action has (which is easier movement/access to otherwise inaccessible areas).
That is a complete no-response and a pointless post.
Basically if you think the travel time isn't too long you don't mind, but if you you think the travel time is too long then you havea problem.
Which brings up another issue, trivializing content. Exploiting geometry is often used to bypass mobs and such in MMOs, by removing the plane of action they have also eliminated many common exploits. Is the reduction in the ability to bypass content your complaint?
If there is a fence in my way that I can't jump over and I have to go around, yes, I tend to be annoyed. I'm sure your endless reserves of patience dwarf mine. That's a virtue, good for you. Most people aren't like that, but hell, I guess FF fans are used to it. I'm not one of them. Sounds like the devs will make the world as flat as possible, to eliminate the need to go vertical at all.
And jumping creates exploits? That's true, I'll give you that one. Unless the devs put in a smart anti-exploit system. How is it "bypassing content", though? You mean jumping to a route that is inaccessible by NPCs? I always thought that was smart, especially if there are many of them and they're stronger than you are. Your wording is a bit weird to me.
And GT, you bring up some good points. They really agree with mine - jumping (or some way of vertically scaling obstacles) works well in an open world with no invisible walls. Sounds like that's why Guild Wars didn't let you jump, but I won't go further and assume that's why this game won't let you jump, either.
Also, I couldn't stand that all of my armor looked like S&M attire.
Speak for yourself.
As for the jump option, I'm in the camp of "who cares" since it wouldn't provide any use. Know what game lets you jump like that? SWG. You can hop to your hearts content, it's only an emote tied to the spacebar and has no bearing to how fast you move or whether you can hop on objects. It's totally useless, and you grow tired of bothering with it quickly.
FFXI had a lot of routing through corridors and such, and allowing someone to jump down the steppe into the crevasses may have helped in expediency between some areas, but would have been utterly pointless without platforming segments. Though, the mere having it is the excuse to attempt platforming, but again, if it's just for show like in SWG - what is the point?
Hell, Aika lets you jump, but you can't hop fences that look like you could hop them. In fact, the main starter city has all sorts of places that you should be able to jump down, and all you get is invisible wall. So much for having the option to jump while putting it to use, eh?
I can already tell you Aika does this because they know what you'll get stuck on, and what the easier fix is (the walls). High geometry games, collision and jumping do not mix. Anybody play Red Faction: Guerilla and *not* get stuck here and there?
I was definitely speaking for myself...which is why I said I...and not "we" or something like that.
Now, as for your response I'm wondering; Does your "speak for yourself" mean you didn't look like you were wearing bondage, or that you preferred your male characters to have their midriffs cut out of all of their armor?
The sleeper awakes...and rides his dirtbike to the mall.
I was definitely speaking for myself...which is why I said I...and not "we" or something like that.
Now, as for your response I'm wondering; Does your "speak for yourself" mean you didn't look like you were wearing bondage, or that you preferred your male characters to have their midriffs cut out of all of their armor?
I rolled a fem elvaan, so yes, the skimpy warrior panties worked out fine.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Thank you. Now I'll run all the way around the fence instead of jumping over it. Or is there a mantle feature like Call of Duty (which I've always thought was more realistic anyways)?
This game just flew off my radar.
Yes! Weed out people like you. /wave
Lol posting like 5 times trying to defend having jumping in a game.
If there is a fence in my way that I can't jump over and I have to go around, yes, I tend to be annoyed. I'm sure your endless reserves of patience dwarf mine. That's a virtue, good for you. Most people aren't like that, but hell, I guess FF fans are used to it. I'm not one of them. Sounds like the devs will make the world as flat as possible, to eliminate the need to go vertical at all.
And jumping creates exploits? That's true, I'll give you that one. Unless the devs put in a smart anti-exploit system. How is it "bypassing content", though? You mean jumping to a route that is inaccessible by NPCs? I always thought that was smart, especially if there are many of them and they're stronger than you are. Your wording is a bit weird to me.
(To start things out you egged on a topic and so I am egging you on in turn, but to make a point.)
In an action game I can completely understand lack of jumping as a complaint. But in an MMO it often only causes problems, many unforseen. if your view is that you can jump in the real world and so you want to in a game I can't counter that, but again games need rules and sometimes those conflict with the real world.
Designing a game means selecting what you want the player to be able to experience, in a solitaire game that scope is limited and merely involves making the card game rule function properly in the game. In a MMO you have customers who want to explore a world and to make rules allowing the experience you also have to create rules limiting the experience. I never felt limited due to lack of jumping in FFXI, but I admit to the occasional frustration of seeing a wall I wish I could bypass. However being able to bypass a ridge or such would have also eliminated the riddles and mazes of FFXI and diluted the experience.
Do you just want to be able to jump period? Would an emote do as in a few other games? What does it really add to the experience?
Thank you. Now I'll run all the way around the fence instead of jumping over it. Or is there a mantle feature like Call of Duty (which I've always thought was more realistic anyways)?
This game just flew off my radar.
Yes! Weed out people like you. /wave
Don't worry, the 40-foot swords and ballerina combat already did that. I was mildly interested because the graphics were nice (not the art style, which I don't like). This was kind of the nail in the coffin, though. It's a pointless feature, yeah, but I still think it'd be easier to give players a way to vertically scale objects (not necessarily jumping) and design the world with tall things.
It's weird, too, because anime typically has jumping/flying characters. I guess there's no place for them in MMOs, though.
If there is a fence in my way that I can't jump over and I have to go around, yes, I tend to be annoyed. I'm sure your endless reserves of patience dwarf mine. That's a virtue, good for you. Most people aren't like that, but hell, I guess FF fans are used to it. I'm not one of them. Sounds like the devs will make the world as flat as possible, to eliminate the need to go vertical at all.
And jumping creates exploits? That's true, I'll give you that one. Unless the devs put in a smart anti-exploit system. How is it "bypassing content", though? You mean jumping to a route that is inaccessible by NPCs? I always thought that was smart, especially if there are many of them and they're stronger than you are. Your wording is a bit weird to me.
(To start things out you egged on a topic and so I am egging you on in turn, but to make a point.)
In an action game I can completely understand lack of jumping as a complaint. But in an MMO it often only causes problems, many unforseen. if your view is that you can jump in the real world and so you want to in a game I can't counter that, but again games need rules and sometimes those conflict with the real world.
Designing a game means selecting what you want the player to be able to experience, in a solitaire game that scope is limited and merely involves making the card game rule function properly in the game. In a MMO you have customers who want to explore a world and to make rules allowing the experience you also have to create rules limiting the experience. I never felt limited due to lack of jumping in FFXI, but I admit to the occasional frustration of seeing a wall I wish I could bypass. However being able to bypass a ridge or such would have also eliminated the riddles and mazes of FFXI and diluted the experience.
Do you just want to be able to jump period? Would an emote do as in a few other games? What does it really add to the experience?
There we go. That's a clearer way of seeing it, and sorry I didn't pick it up in your first post (again, the wording was weird).
This really is a pointless topic, but I felt like complaining and having a debate. Your third paragraph was the knockout punch!
I never saw jumping as an emote - I wanted a way to vertically scale objects. But if that would hurt the game design, I can understand why Square won't put it in.
And I learned something else. I'm not gonna mess with FF fans. Not worth the trouble, though you presented a good argument.
Don't worry, the 40-foot swords and ballerina combat already did that. I was mildly interested because the graphics were nice (not the art style, which I don't like). This was kind of the nail in the coffin, though. It's a pointless feature, yeah, but I still think it'd be easier to give players a way to vertically scale objects (not necessarily jumping) and design the world with tall things.
It's weird, too, because anime typically has jumping/flying characters. I guess there's no place for them in MMOs, though.
Obviously you don't understand what you are trying to argue as FFXi has vertical levels and depths as well and interactions between levels. There is simply no jumping.
Don't worry, the 40-foot swords and ballerina combat already did that. I was mildly interested because the graphics were nice (not the art style, which I don't like). This was kind of the nail in the coffin, though. It's a pointless feature, yeah, but I still think it'd be easier to give players a way to vertically scale objects (not necessarily jumping) and design the world with tall things.
It's weird, too, because anime typically has jumping/flying characters. I guess there's no place for them in MMOs, though.
Obviously you don't understand what you are trying to argue as FFXi has vertical levels and depths as well and interactions between levels. There is simply no jumping.
That's what I asked in the first post! Lol. People got hung up thinking that I wanted jumping specifically. Jumping, climbing, teleporting, wearing a helicopter hat, I don't care how they do it. As long as there is vertical variation.
Okay, I'm out. Have fun in the world with abnormally strong gravity.
Meh, I'm glad for it. I am all for keeping any traditional FF elements in XIV : )
Originally posted by Scagweed22 is it the graphics? the repetativenesses? i mean what is the point? you could be so much more productive in real life Real life brings repetition and pointlessness too. The only thing real life offers is Great graphics. Its kinda expensive too and way to dependent on the cash shop. Totally pay to win as well. No thank you. Ill stick to my games.
I always enjoyed climbing and jumping to higher elevations in MMORPGs I have played in the past. See that big boulder? I'm gonna try to get on top of that bastard and look around! Or, I'm running off that cliff and jumping into the water below! Or, hey look, I got on top of the building in the back of the city! It was just goofing around, but these are games you know...
I guess that makes me immature that I enjoyed this simple pleasure. Today's MMORPG players don't waste their time doing things like that. Who cares, right? You don't need jumping to race to max level, right?
When I see no jumping in an MMORPG, I view that as a limitation to what I can do.
Can you walk backwards in FFXIV? Cause in my opinion, this game is taking a step backwards by not including jumping.
It has become clear to me that this conversation in any forum about jumping in MMOs should be avoided just as much as other social no-no's... like religion, politics, favorite fast food joints, and so on. Either side can discuss in detail the benefits or downfall of the idea, but in the end, both parties will have their original thoughts while only now being somewhat annoyed.
I learned my lesson on my initial post here which I thought all would agree with the jumping comment... I couldn't have been more wrong. They ignored all my other issues and focused on just that one topic which was of great surprise. I can see everyones issues with the idea even if I do not agree with it. I know where they're coming from and I respect their views just the same.
In the end, there really is no benefit to voice this particular concern. The developers have made their decision and no matter how justified it is to have it with or without jumping, they will not flex nor show any concern what-so-ever with your desire to add or remove it from their game.
Hiromichi Tanaka laughing as he answers this question:
The main reason is because we don't think its important to have the functions in the game, we don't need to have the functions in the game. So even if you jump around and nothing is gonna happen anyway{....last part is garbled cause the guy is laughing....post what else is said if you can understand it!}
Yay, another chapter closed in all the whining why there isn't a jump feature, and that many of us FFXI vets already tried to explain, "because there is no damned reason or need to jump from the way its designed"
Any game that doesn't allow a bunch of WoW babies to run around hopping like rabbits is good in my book!
Hiromichi Tanaka laughing as he answers this question:
The main reason is because we don't think its important to have the functions in the game, we don't need to have the functions in the game. So even if you jump around and nothing is gonna happen anyway{....last part is garbled cause the guy is laughing....post what else is said if you can understand it!}
Yay, another chapter closed in all the whining why there isn't a jump feature, and that many of us FFXI vets already tried to explain, "because there is no damned reason or need to jump from the way its designed"
Any game that doesn't allow a bunch of WoW babies to run around hopping like rabbits is good in my book!
It is quite annoying watching a group of lolleet-spekers jump up and down all the time. I wouldn't want to be in a group where everyone just jumped up and down the whole time, I experienced that in WoW and it is quite irritating....
I wouldn't care if it was in the game or not to be honest, so which ever is fine. But definitely will weed out some of the bacon bunnies. It's a plus either way for me.
Amazing. Talking about jumping...and people bring up WoW.
Just amazing...
Just as FFVII brought masses of new gamers into the world of Final Fantasy, WoW brought about the masses of tards that first discovered MMOs and the ability to jump, and now suddenly if any game or MMO doesn't have the features of WoW its not realistic or fun...rofl
I'm actually quite happy that SE are making these things clear, to start weeding out these tards from even attempting to play the free 30 days of FFXIV. For us vets, those first 30 days will be slightly more peaceful...maybe!
Jumping is just pollution. Something for players to spam while they auto run to the next quest. Now if there was proper clipping and collision physics in the game, that would be fun.
For anyone who finds not being able to jump is not merely an annoyance but a gamebreaker, it's better, for them and others, that they won't be playing FFXIV .
Natural selection at its best. To those that will give FFXIV a try, they'll be glad to know that there'll be less of that kind of people around in their game.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Comments
That is a complete no-response and a pointless post.
Basically if you think the travel time isn't too long you don't mind, but if you you think the travel time is too long then you havea problem.
Which brings up another issue, trivializing content. Exploiting geometry is often used to bypass mobs and such in MMOs, by removing the plane of action they have also eliminated many common exploits. Is the reduction in the ability to bypass content your complaint?
Speak for yourself.
As for the jump option, I'm in the camp of "who cares" since it wouldn't provide any use. Know what game lets you jump like that? SWG. You can hop to your hearts content, it's only an emote tied to the spacebar and has no bearing to how fast you move or whether you can hop on objects. It's totally useless, and you grow tired of bothering with it quickly.
FFXI had a lot of routing through corridors and such, and allowing someone to jump down the steppe into the crevasses may have helped in expediency between some areas, but would have been utterly pointless without platforming segments. Though, the mere having it is the excuse to attempt platforming, but again, if it's just for show like in SWG - what is the point?
Hell, Aika lets you jump, but you can't hop fences that look like you could hop them. In fact, the main starter city has all sorts of places that you should be able to jump down, and all you get is invisible wall. So much for having the option to jump while putting it to use, eh?
I can already tell you Aika does this because they know what you'll get stuck on, and what the easier fix is (the walls). High geometry games, collision and jumping do not mix. Anybody play Red Faction: Guerilla and *not* get stuck here and there?
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
If there is a fence in my way that I can't jump over and I have to go around, yes, I tend to be annoyed. I'm sure your endless reserves of patience dwarf mine. That's a virtue, good for you. Most people aren't like that, but hell, I guess FF fans are used to it. I'm not one of them. Sounds like the devs will make the world as flat as possible, to eliminate the need to go vertical at all.
And jumping creates exploits? That's true, I'll give you that one. Unless the devs put in a smart anti-exploit system. How is it "bypassing content", though? You mean jumping to a route that is inaccessible by NPCs? I always thought that was smart, especially if there are many of them and they're stronger than you are. Your wording is a bit weird to me.
And GT, you bring up some good points. They really agree with mine - jumping (or some way of vertically scaling obstacles) works well in an open world with no invisible walls. Sounds like that's why Guild Wars didn't let you jump, but I won't go further and assume that's why this game won't let you jump, either.
I was definitely speaking for myself...which is why I said I...and not "we" or something like that.
Now, as for your response I'm wondering; Does your "speak for yourself" mean you didn't look like you were wearing bondage, or that you preferred your male characters to have their midriffs cut out of all of their armor?
The sleeper awakes...and rides his dirtbike to the mall.
Because it is not WoW. Next question ?
Did WoW invent jumping? I guess you're right...it all makes sense now! Basketball never existed until WoW!!!!
The sleeper awakes...and rides his dirtbike to the mall.
I rolled a fem elvaan, so yes, the skimpy warrior panties worked out fine.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Yes! Weed out people like you. /wave
Lol posting like 5 times trying to defend having jumping in a game.
(To start things out you egged on a topic and so I am egging you on in turn, but to make a point.)
In an action game I can completely understand lack of jumping as a complaint. But in an MMO it often only causes problems, many unforseen. if your view is that you can jump in the real world and so you want to in a game I can't counter that, but again games need rules and sometimes those conflict with the real world.
Designing a game means selecting what you want the player to be able to experience, in a solitaire game that scope is limited and merely involves making the card game rule function properly in the game. In a MMO you have customers who want to explore a world and to make rules allowing the experience you also have to create rules limiting the experience. I never felt limited due to lack of jumping in FFXI, but I admit to the occasional frustration of seeing a wall I wish I could bypass. However being able to bypass a ridge or such would have also eliminated the riddles and mazes of FFXI and diluted the experience.
Do you just want to be able to jump period? Would an emote do as in a few other games? What does it really add to the experience?
Don't worry, the 40-foot swords and ballerina combat already did that. I was mildly interested because the graphics were nice (not the art style, which I don't like). This was kind of the nail in the coffin, though. It's a pointless feature, yeah, but I still think it'd be easier to give players a way to vertically scale objects (not necessarily jumping) and design the world with tall things.
It's weird, too, because anime typically has jumping/flying characters. I guess there's no place for them in MMOs, though.
There we go. That's a clearer way of seeing it, and sorry I didn't pick it up in your first post (again, the wording was weird).
This really is a pointless topic, but I felt like complaining and having a debate. Your third paragraph was the knockout punch!
I never saw jumping as an emote - I wanted a way to vertically scale objects. But if that would hurt the game design, I can understand why Square won't put it in.
And I learned something else. I'm not gonna mess with FF fans. Not worth the trouble, though you presented a good argument.
Obviously you don't understand what you are trying to argue as FFXi has vertical levels and depths as well and interactions between levels. There is simply no jumping.
That's what I asked in the first post! Lol. People got hung up thinking that I wanted jumping specifically. Jumping, climbing, teleporting, wearing a helicopter hat, I don't care how they do it. As long as there is vertical variation.
Okay, I'm out. Have fun in the world with abnormally strong gravity.
Meh, I'm glad for it. I am all for keeping any traditional FF elements in XIV : )
Originally posted by Scagweed22
is it the graphics? the repetativenesses? i mean what is the point? you could be so much more productive in real life
Real life brings repetition and pointlessness too. The only thing real life offers is Great graphics. Its kinda expensive too and way to dependent on the cash shop. Totally pay to win as well. No thank you. Ill stick to my games.
I always enjoyed climbing and jumping to higher elevations in MMORPGs I have played in the past. See that big boulder? I'm gonna try to get on top of that bastard and look around! Or, I'm running off that cliff and jumping into the water below! Or, hey look, I got on top of the building in the back of the city! It was just goofing around, but these are games you know...
I guess that makes me immature that I enjoyed this simple pleasure. Today's MMORPG players don't waste their time doing things like that. Who cares, right? You don't need jumping to race to max level, right?
When I see no jumping in an MMORPG, I view that as a limitation to what I can do.
Can you walk backwards in FFXIV? Cause in my opinion, this game is taking a step backwards by not including jumping.
Tradition is great. Just not in video games. There's a reason all MMO's still play like original Everquest...
Imagine the kinds of games we would have if devs tried to revolutionize actual gameplay instead of just graphics.
It has become clear to me that this conversation in any forum about jumping in MMOs should be avoided just as much as other social no-no's... like religion, politics, favorite fast food joints, and so on. Either side can discuss in detail the benefits or downfall of the idea, but in the end, both parties will have their original thoughts while only now being somewhat annoyed.
I learned my lesson on my initial post here which I thought all would agree with the jumping comment... I couldn't have been more wrong. They ignored all my other issues and focused on just that one topic which was of great surprise. I can see everyones issues with the idea even if I do not agree with it. I know where they're coming from and I respect their views just the same.
In the end, there really is no benefit to voice this particular concern. The developers have made their decision and no matter how justified it is to have it with or without jumping, they will not flex nor show any concern what-so-ever with your desire to add or remove it from their game.
So...much...win...!
Why does everyone here hate fun? = (
It is quite annoying watching a group of lolleet-spekers jump up and down all the time. I wouldn't want to be in a group where everyone just jumped up and down the whole time, I experienced that in WoW and it is quite irritating....
I wouldn't care if it was in the game or not to be honest, so which ever is fine. But definitely will weed out some of the bacon bunnies. It's a plus either way for me.
Amazing. Talking about jumping...and people bring up WoW.
Just amazing...
I'm used to jumping down cliff ledges, across chasms and over fences in EQ2
I guess FFXIV is a step backwards in the mmo genre.
Let me guess you can't swim under water either?
Another Aion asain grinder coming your way.. yay !
my web design: www.advancedws.com.au
Just as FFVII brought masses of new gamers into the world of Final Fantasy, WoW brought about the masses of tards that first discovered MMOs and the ability to jump, and now suddenly if any game or MMO doesn't have the features of WoW its not realistic or fun...rofl
I'm actually quite happy that SE are making these things clear, to start weeding out these tards from even attempting to play the free 30 days of FFXIV. For us vets, those first 30 days will be slightly more peaceful...maybe!
Jumping is just pollution. Something for players to spam while they auto run to the next quest. Now if there was proper clipping and collision physics in the game, that would be fun.
For anyone who finds not being able to jump is not merely an annoyance but a gamebreaker, it's better, for them and others, that they won't be playing FFXIV .
Natural selection at its best. To those that will give FFXIV a try, they'll be glad to know that there'll be less of that kind of people around in their game.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."