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POLL: Who would design a Star Wars game without space flight/combat in the from the start?

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Comments

  • Quite a few resources would be needed to add a proper space combat module to the game. This means either extending the development by a significant amount or skimping on something else. I say for now let BioWare do what they do best and let someone else make a good space combat MMO... for now.

    Jumpgate: Evolution looks to have pretty freaking sweet space combat gameplay... hopefully it will actually be released at some point. And there's also Black Prophecy.

     

    Take a look:

    http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-jumpgate-evolution/700635

  • warmaster670warmaster670 Member Posts: 1,384

    Originally posted by arieste

    Originally posted by warmaster670


    These "its not star wars without space" people really must not know star wars all that well if they dont know its not focused on space.

    I know star wars pretty well.  I'll admit I can't recall exact dates and names of things, but I've watched all the films, I've read 50+ novels and I've played countless games.  I even have an RPG guidebook someplace (which has detailed ship info btw).   I clearly remember at the very least:  X-Wing, Tie-Fighter, Rebel Assault, Rebellion and Star Wars Galaxies having space components.  I think Jedi Knight and KOTOR did not. 

     

    Here is a reminder - not form me, but from Wookiepedia - about the 3 major battles that took place in the original trilogy.  Feel free to browse the links the see exactly how much aerial/space and ground forces were involved in all 3 engagements.

    Star Wars:  Battle of Yavin

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Yavin

    Highlight:  Red 5 X-Wing piloted by Luke Skywalker destroys Death Star as part of major assault.

     

    The Empire Strikes Back:  Battle of Hoth

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Hoth_(Galactic_Civil_War)

    Highlight:  Luke Skywalker leads Rogue Squadron - piloting Snowspeeders - in defence.

     

    Return of the Jedi:  Battle of Endor

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Endor

    Highlight:   Lando piloting the Millennium Falcon leads starfighter attack on Death Star II

     

    oh and hey, here is the original poster for Star Wars - check it out - it has a whole bunch of ships and space on it!  http://www.cinemasterpieces.com/jik2.jpg

    oh and hey, here is the empire strikes back one, again ships and space!  it's almost as thought space and ships are part of what makes Star Wars, eh?  http://www.smartbizconnection.com/movie_posters_9_files/image021.jpg

    but wait, surely this can't be on the posters for all 3 films! can it?  oh crap, ships and space again on the Return of the Jedi original poster:   http://tf.org/images/covers/ReturnOfTheJediPoster1983.jpg

    And how much of teh movies were focused on space events? ya thats what i thought, not many when you exclude travel time, sure there were battles, but you can have big space battles going on in this game without EVER having any space content in it.

    Star wars is ground focused, having space in it means nothing as most of the stuff happening goes on on teh ground.

    Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
    Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.

  • PedrobPedrob Member UncommonPosts: 172

    I'll have to side with the ones that say that SW is more land based.

    The movies had space combat in them, but that took proabaly 1/10 of the screen time at best, yes early SW games were focused on the space fight as that was the trend back then, then it was action/FPS games, and now we are in the times of the RPG for the SW IP.

    Whether this discussion moves on or a winner is settled betwen space or land, there are two things to keep in mind.

    1.- TOR is being based on the series KotOR, which are 99.8% ground based, the only space parts were cinematics and an annoying turret to kill Imperial fighters. This is not SWG, Tie Fighter, X Fighter or any other game, it's being developed by Bioware and Mythic who are known for RPG's not space sims.

    2.- Look at previous MMO developers that launched both ground and space features from the beginning, complete mess, failure and dissappointment. I'd like to see space content in TOR...at some point, right now, I want a stable, working, fun ground content to keep me playing and fund the developers to hire the right coders that have experience in space content, well ok forget the stable, we all know MMO's are not stable for the first month after release =)

    Bottom line is, let it be what it'll be, don't rant, cry or kick if there's no space combat at release, most lkely there will be at one point as an expansion, and Bioware already knows that it's fans want both contents.

  • DarthViktorDarthViktor Member Posts: 37

    Originally posted by Pedrob

    I'll have to side with the ones that say that SW is more land based.

    The movies had space combat in them, but that took proabaly 1/10 of the screen time at best, yes early SW games were focused on the space fight as that was the trend back then, then it was action/FPS games, and now we are in the times of the RPG for the SW IP.

    Whether this discussion moves on or a winner is settled betwen space or land, there are two things to keep in mind.

    1.- TOR is being based on the series KotOR, which are 99.8% ground based, the only space parts were cinematics and an annoying turret to kill Imperial fighters. This is not SWG, Tie Fighter, X Fighter or any other game, it's being developed by Bioware and Mythic who are known for RPG's not space sims.

    2.- Look at previous MMO developers that launched both ground and space features from the beginning, complete mess, failure and dissappointment. I'd like to see space content in TOR...at some point, right now, I want a stable, working, fun ground content to keep me playing and fund the developers to hire the right coders that have experience in space content, well ok forget the stable, we all know MMO's are not stable for the first month after release =)

    Bottom line is, let it be what it'll be, don't rant, cry or kick if there's no space combat at release, most lkely there will be at one point as an expansion, and Bioware already knows that it's fans want both contents.

     Exactly! You my friend get a cookie of your choice.

  • ariestearieste Member UncommonPosts: 3,309

    Originally posted by warmaster670

    And how much of teh movies were focused on space events? ya thats what i thought, not many when you exclude travel time, sure there were battles, but you can have big space battles going on in this game without EVER having any space content in it.

    Star wars is ground focused, having space in it means nothing as most of the stuff happening goes on on teh ground.

    And how much of the movies are focused on the Old Republic era? Oh right, none, that's all done in the comics.  I guess they should avoid this era entirely in the game, since it's not the focus of the movies and all.... you can't possibly be serious.  I didn't link items that I made up.  I linked items from the Star Wars wiki that details exactly how much action took place in space.  You really ought to check it out.

     

    The reason Leia asks Obi-Wan for help is because her ship (in space) cannot outrun another ship and is boarded.  This space chase serves as the catalyst for all the events in the original trilogy. 

     

    The reason Obi-Wan and Luke enlist Han's help is because he has a fast ship and can provide transport.  This serves as the basis for the existence of two of the main characters in Star Wars (Han and Chewie)

     

    The reason Han has a ship is because he is a smuggler.  The reason Han is in trouble with Jabba is because he is a smuggler and because of the things he did as a smuggler, while being chased, through space.  This serves as the background for the existence of Jabba and the entire palace entourage as well as Boba Fett and all the bounty hunters.

     

    The majority of events and characters are introduced due events happening in space and general careers that involve things happening in space. 

     

    Yes, swords and magic are a big part of star wars, but they're not what the majority of people in the galaxy are about.

     

    But fine, answer me this ONE question:   In the world you envision, what does a smuggler do?  (SWTOR does have smugglers).

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
    Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
    Currently Playing: ESO

  • HeidiHeidi Member Posts: 27

    There will be space flight from planet to planet.  As for combat Bioware is actually smart by not introducing that aspect.  There game is only going to pull 100K subscribers if that.  After servers merge nine months after release they (swg developers who are working on SWTOR) do not want a repeat of ghost towns as was the case in SWG.  They are hopefully going to force what little population they have to ground based exploration and combat.  If they were able to pull in the millions of subscribers that WOW has, I could see the logic behind having space combat.  Not gonna happen though.

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick Member CommonPosts: 7,619

    @HeidI: Heh, nice trolling.

     

    @Arieste: I agree that people trying to say that space battles weren't happening or important in the movies are stretching the truth, there were enough iconic space battles happening to disprove that.

    As for saying that a StarWars game or MMO can't be good without space battles, I think that there have been enough games that disproved that point, KOTOR 1 and 2 certainly not among the least of the great SW games without space battle. I think that what many people are trying to say that as there was enough action and intrige happening in the movies outside of the space fights, so that that isn't essential for a fully immersive Star Wars experience.

     

    Also, when we're talking about space combat, there is a split between the spaceship battles and the space combat within ships. Examples show that almost half of the space combat happening in the movies was within the space ships: the boarding of Leia's ship in the 1st Star Wars movie, the fights and travels through the Death Star, Obi Wan Kenobi's and Qui-Gon battles on the Trade Federation's ship or Anakin's and Obi-Wan's fights on the Separatist battlecruiser.

     

    While combat between spaceships will be very unlikely at launch (although not 100% uncertain), there are indications that the other form of space combat that we've seen in the movies, adventuring and battles within spaceships, will very likely be possible within SW:TOR at launch. They said there would be a 'space experience' with SW TOR's gameplay, and combat and adventuring within spaceships would be easily possible with the ground gameplay mechanics. Although nothing is definite at the moment, it's all assumptions.

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  • ariestearieste Member UncommonPosts: 3,309

    bleh.. people post as i'm typing...

    at  post above the one above me:

    I think you're heavily underestimating this game.  It'll have over 500k subs for at least 3 months for the pre-written content alone.  How many stay beyond that depends on the "MMO" part of the game that they haven't really discussed.

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
    Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
    Currently Playing: ESO

  • ariestearieste Member UncommonPosts: 3,309

    Originally posted by cyphers

    As for saying that a StarWars game or MMO can't be good without space battles

    I never said this.  KOTOR is an excellent game and has no space battles.  As was Jedi Knight.  And even without space SWG was excellent.  I wasn't arguing with the fact that you can make a good game without space - you can. 

    I was arguing with the person that said: "These "its not star wars without space" people really must not know star wars all that well if they dont know its not focused on space."

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
    Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
    Currently Playing: ESO

  • warmaster670warmaster670 Member Posts: 1,384

    Originally posted by arieste

     

    Yes, swords and magic are a big part of star wars, but they're not what the majority of people in the galaxy are about.

     

    Exact opposite, the majority of people in star wars arnt even going to have access to any kind of ship, possibly even vehicles.

    Star wars is ground focused.

    Yes there is space stuff, but even alot of the space stuff is ground stuff INSIDE the ships, there is absolutely no reason this games needs any kind of space, as anything star warsy that happens in space can be done without any space content.

    You can point out space stuff from the movies all you want, but it doesnt change teh fact that the movies are ground focused, along with teh majority of videogames.

     

    Its like saying you cant have a modern setting game without having planes and tanks and cars playable.

    Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
    Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.

  • ariestearieste Member UncommonPosts: 3,309

    Originally posted by warmaster670

    Originally posted by arieste



     

    Yes, swords and magic are a big part of star wars, but they're not what the majority of people in the galaxy are about.

     

    Exact opposite, the majority of people in star wars arnt even going to have access to any kind of ship, possibly even vehicles.

    More likely to have access to space ships and vehicles than lightsabers.  

     

    But you're right.  Only like soldiers, jedi, bounty hunters and smugglers are likely to have access to ships.  Good thing those aren't going the sorts of characters the game focuses on.

     

    My wager is that 100% of the characters created in SWTOR will be characters that travel between planets.  That's a guess, but i think it's a pretty good guess.

     

    But like i said, answer me this one question:  In your vision of star wars, what does a Smuggler do?

     

    Also, as i've said numerous times, I do not think that you can't have a game without it.  I'm just poiting out that it's very much part of Star Wars.

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
    Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
    Currently Playing: ESO

  • CultOfXtcCultOfXtc Member Posts: 378

    Originally posted by arieste

    Originally posted by bluefunk

     

     Well if you're replying to this thread you're also guilty of answering a different question which is what most people seem to be doing.

    What is wrong people who are rpelying to this thread, YOU ARE ANSWERING A DIFFERENT QUESTION TO WHAT I ASKED. 

    Given that your response options for the questions were clearly meant to be sarcastic, I think most people would be correct to assume that the question was rhetorical (why would a crazy homeless person, a dog or a doctor be designing a star wars MMO?).

     Yes, you are right.  Point taken.  I wish I had made it more serious to be honest if you know what I mean. :)

    THE SECRET WORLD - PAY ONCE PLAY FOREVER - Give it a go!

    http://www.thesecretworld.com/buy/

    OR PM ME FOR A BUDDY KEY (need your email address).

  • CultOfXtcCultOfXtc Member Posts: 378

    Originally posted by cyphers

    Originally posted by bluefunk

     Well if you're replying to this thread you're also guilty of answering a different question which is what most people seem to be doing.

    What is wrong people who are rpelying to this thread, YOU ARE ANSWERING A DIFFERENT QUESTION TO WHAT I ASKED. 

    ... Ehm:


    Originally posted by cyphers

    Originally posted by bluefunk

    However I simply asked if YOU WERE GIVEN $150 MILLION to design a SW game would you include space/stars in it? It's a retorical question really because I believe everyone posting here would say yes, why wouldn't you?

    It depends if in the course of the first stages of the project it became apparent that with the resources (talent pool, money) it wouldn't be possible to do the space combat and areas as well as the ground  areas right, then I would have my teams focus on making the worlds exceptional for launch, giving them more time to think and try out several alternatives for space implementation, so that when I implement it in a follow up expansion, it could be as excellent and immersive as the planets.

    I'd think of a SWG as an example, that it could be done this way.

    I'm no game director of course, but this would be my thinking.

     

    Not me, did answer the right question in a former post image

     My apologies :) 

    THE SECRET WORLD - PAY ONCE PLAY FOREVER - Give it a go!

    http://www.thesecretworld.com/buy/

    OR PM ME FOR A BUDDY KEY (need your email address).

  • MurlockDanceMurlockDance Member Posts: 1,223

    Nah, the poll was fine as you put it in, it's nice to see an attempt at some decent humour on these boards. I get the impression that people don't really read something before they hit the 'reply' button.

    I answered a second time though in an indirect way: my original reply was that game developers would be the ones who would not put in space flight/combat in from the start. So my second indirect reply was that if I was developing this game, I definitely would!

    Even if the argument can be made that the first two KoToR games (I can only really speak for the first since I didn't play the second) didn't have much space combat or flight, the thing is MMOs are virtual worlds, otherwise why make it an MMO at all rather than a single player, or small multiplayer game? If it's a world, it should be expansive rather than restrictive, and I think having a spaceflight element to it, at the very least, would be a good thing to have.

    That doesn't mean that people have to spend all of their time out in space, but I think it would add rather than detract. Just think about what it could do for the player economy if space were added, especially as a PvP area!

    Can't have Star Wars without the Stars!

     

    Ok that was cheesy image

    Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

    image
  • TalaharTalahar Member UncommonPosts: 19

    While I enjoy a good space game every now and then,

    I hope should they introduce that aspect into SWTOR it remains optional.

    Some people don't enjoy player vs player gameplay, and if they're forced to participate

    they'll probably stop playing in the long run.

    I can see the same situation with any added space combat mechanisms.

     

    The way I could see space combat added to SWTOR is:

    Expansion with two piloty classes with focus on space combat,

    everyone else gets the option to participate, but shouldn't be hindered in his normal

    character progression should he decide to opt out of space combat gameplay.

     

    And to answer the initial question: I'd make the choice early on in development to

    either do space based or ground based and focus the entire budget on the chosen aspect.

    I'd rather do one game with a full budget than had to do two with half a budget each.

  • swollenwabitswollenwabit Member Posts: 107

    I'm just hoping and hoping there will be a remake of Tie fighter and X-wing vs tie fighter. Tie fighter was quite possibly the best space combat game ever made. :)

    In a MMO it's probably easier to get ground combat right rather then try to get both ground and space combat correct. 

  • neilh73neilh73 Member Posts: 239

    I would. 

    A lot of people think that the CU was the first nail in SWG's coffin. 

    I don't. 

    I think it was Jump to Lightspeed.

    Sure 10 min shuttle waits were a pain in the backside sometimes (especially when my BH was on a mission), but when they disappeared due to JTL the community spirit of the original game took its first knock.  Also, the actual combat in JTL was nowhere near as good as X-Wing v TIE Fighter or other older space combat games.

     

    I couldn't care less if BioWare never introduces space combat mechanics to SW:ToR.

    MMORPG History:
    Playing - EVE Online.
    Played (Retired) - AO, SWG, MxO, WoW, RFO, SoR, CoX, EQ2, GW, L2, Vanguard, LotRO, AoC, TCoS, Aion.
    Favourite MMO - Pre-CU SWG, 3 Years, 4 Accounts, 2 Pre-CU Jedi (1 Pre-9).
    Awaiting - Star Wars: The Old Republic, The Secret World, Earthrise.

  • DexterGrifDexterGrif Member Posts: 35

    Theres quite a few star wars games that don't have space combay in either the original, nor any expansion pacs, Jedi Knight, Kotor (unless you count the lame ass rail shooter part), Jedi Academy and countless others. In Star Wars, space combat is  a part of it, but it doesn't always need to be in every game. Not saying I don't want it in TOR, matter of fact I do want it in, but I'd prefer if the development team makes a stable core game then add on space combat.

  • MurlockDanceMurlockDance Member Posts: 1,223

    This has definitely become a circular argument heh heh.

    Why can't the *core* game include spaceflight and combat rather than having an idea that it's just an add-on? Who cares if previous Star Wars titles didn't have spaceflight and combat in? If you're making a virtual world, you wouldn't put it in at all?

    That makes no sense to me. I would add elements to keep players interested and space is an entire frontier that can be explored and fought in, so to me that would be a must-have. There aren't any games out right now that have both elements other than SWG. Just think about how many players they could bring in by having both in at release.

    I'm a bit disappointed that ships will only be houses, though having a house right-off is uber in many ways. Now if only I could have several ships, including one that I could fight or explore space in, or even harvest stuff in... wow!

    Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

    image
  • JuicemanJuiceman Member Posts: 167

    Originally posted by DarthViktor

    Originally posted by Pedrob

    I'll have to side with the ones that say that SW is more land based.

    The movies had space combat in them, but that took proabaly 1/10 of the screen time at best, yes early SW games were focused on the space fight as that was the trend back then, then it was action/FPS games, and now we are in the times of the RPG for the SW IP.

    Whether this discussion moves on or a winner is settled betwen space or land, there are two things to keep in mind.

    1.- TOR is being based on the series KotOR, which are 99.8% ground based, the only space parts were cinematics and an annoying turret to kill Imperial fighters. This is not SWG, Tie Fighter, X Fighter or any other game, it's being developed by Bioware and Mythic who are known for RPG's not space sims.

    2.- Look at previous MMO developers that launched both ground and space features from the beginning, complete mess, failure and dissappointment. I'd like to see space content in TOR...at some point, right now, I want a stable, working, fun ground content to keep me playing and fund the developers to hire the right coders that have experience in space content, well ok forget the stable, we all know MMO's are not stable for the first month after release =)

    Bottom line is, let it be what it'll be, don't rant, cry or kick if there's no space combat at release, most lkely there will be at one point as an expansion, and Bioware already knows that it's fans want both contents.

     Exactly! You my friend get a cookie of your choice.

    Word ^^^^ I mentioned this in another forum but no one even noticed at the time.  Plus, on top of that little fact about SW(that only 1/10 of screen time was in space), there is also the limitation of technology.  MMOs are hard to develop still.... and adding that to this already robust looking multi-planet "ground" game would be a task and a half.

  • JuicemanJuiceman Member Posts: 167

    Originally posted by DexterGrif

    Theres quite a few star wars games that don't have space combay

  • JuicemanJuiceman Member Posts: 167

    lol crap my bad people, i wanted to make a play on words joke. Silly  silly f-in me.

  • IsaneIsane Member UncommonPosts: 2,630

    Originally posted by bluefunk

    Originally posted by thamighty213

    It's a good decision IMO.

     

    Players do not want to feel overwhelmed with what will be 2 seperate games,  you do not want to fragment your community at the very start with those there for space and those there for ground play,  it provides a perfect expansion opportunity so is a no brainer from a business perspective.

     

    I am more than happy that it may not be there at the start but with 6 of the guys behind the very core of JTL on the team I have no doubt it will come and be great when it does.

    But it doesn't have to be 2 seperate games if done right..  Youy appear to be accepting what they are making rather than imagining what you or anyone else would do if sitting down with a blank piece of paper, pencil and $150 million and spec to create a SW game.

    I am sure they will add Stars but that's crap tbh, just like SWG.  you will walk aronud on the ground or in a vehicle thinking where's the stars?

    Maybe you will. I am more interested in developing my charachter , no interest in ship combat I will go play Eve if I want that. Bioware have their focus correct. Shame one of your wanabee features wont be in or will it who knows.

    ________________________________________________________
    Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel 

  • MiffyMiffy Member Posts: 244

    To me it's a stupid idea, Star Wars is space.

  • WarmakerWarmaker Member UncommonPosts: 2,246

    Originally posted by SuperXero89

    There are more Star Wars games on the market today without space combat than there are with space combat.

     And none of them, except for SWG (well, it *is* still around), are designed and intended for players to sink their time and effort the way an MMO demands.

    Character development, travel, different forms of play, multiplayer interactions, etc.  You have to make it worthy for the customer to keep forking money over and over for an MMORPG.

    I've also said this before in other related threads:  SOE was soundly trashed by reviewers and players for SWG not to have space combat when the game came out in 2003.  Mark my words, alot of people will be upset if space combat isn't possible in TOR.  And I'm not talking about a lame rail shooter like in the KOTOR games, because that will not fly in an MMORPG.  You should take into account that people ASKED BioWare specifically about this, and lots of other gaming media bothered to reprint the same question, and the same non-answer from BioWare.

    I'd venture to say that BioWare had absolutely no intention of implementing space combat in TOR, judging from what they've been saying so far and what they're NOT showing.

    My prediction?  They will start working on it now because they got the vibe from people that it is an important aspect to them.  But it will be such a half-a**ed job that it will be funny to hear about what was actually implemented.

    SWG's "Jump To Lightspeed" pack came out in 2004.  It had alot of merits but alot of bad characteristics also.  I'd be surprised to hear a Star Wars MMO developed for release soon after 2010, 6 or more years later, will have no or worse space combat than SOE's old effort.


    Originally posted by Miffy

    To me it's a stupid idea, Star Wars is space.

     SWG was repeatedly trashed at release reviews, alot of which can still be read today.  One of the most repeated and big sore points of reviewers and players was that there was no space combat when the game came out.

    "How can you not have space fights?  It's freakin' Star Wars!"

    The same complaint was repeated online and on magazines.

    The sad part is the Star Wars video game franchises used to be rich in those style of games.  I was an old fan of the X-Wing series of games (X-Wing, TIE Fighter, X-Wing vs TIE Fighter, X-Wing Alliance).

    "I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)

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