If I wanted to play a flight simulator, I would play Eve or Jumpgate. I spent less than 30 minutes in Star Trek Online because, while I like sci-fi, I hate space flight. The 2 do not have to be synonomous.
I can understand the desire of those who want to see space flight in Star Wars TOR. I am not one of them. I am VERY happy Bioware won't force me to play a spaceship. It would have been a deal breaker for me.
Players do not want to feel overwhelmed with what will be 2 seperate games, you do not want to fragment your community at the very start with those there for space and those there for ground play, it provides a perfect expansion opportunity so is a no brainer from a business perspective.
I am more than happy that it may not be there at the start but with 6 of the guys behind the very core of JTL on the team I have no doubt it will come and be great when it does.
But it doesn't have to be 2 seperate games if done right.. Youy appear to be accepting what they are making rather than imagining what you or anyone else would do if sitting down with a blank piece of paper, pencil and $150 million and spec to create a SW game.
I am sure they will add Stars but that's crap tbh, just like SWG. you will walk aronud on the ground or in a vehicle thinking where's the stars?
Maybe you will. I am more interested in developing my charachter , no interest in ship combat I will go play Eve if I want that. Bioware have their focus correct. Shame one of your wanabee features wont be in or will it who knows.
That , said. Some great missions on ships that are in space or space stations orbiting a planet with quests and feature that are technically in space just like a planet is. Would be an absolute bonus.
Lots of potential, to have some great story lines but sadly I just don't see the need for a added flight sim.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I can actually answer this with 100% assurity, SoE did design it without space combat/exploration from the start and Bioware will have it in game from the start. Simply really.
"The King and the Pawn return to the same box at the end of the game"
Honestly, I have little desire to see space battles added. If I want to play a space battle sim I will play a space battle sim. I am probably in the minority but that is how I feel about it. I play MMORPG games for the story and character development. This is, of course, my personal preference.
Pirates of the Burning Seas had land-based and ocean-based combat (somewhat similar to the Ground + Space combat dichotomy). Not that A=B so B=A necessarily, but I found that in PotBS, there was not a very effective balance of gameplay for both. One felt complete the other felt buggy, and served as more of an afterthought that they desperately tried to fit into the game. Bioware is a talented company, their games are always gold.
I think it's just hard when one is given an IP with such devout followers and so much time to follow the game before release. We watch their every move and have so much time on our hands that our minds can't help but wander and wonder. Truth of it is, try not to poison yourself with dreams of what will and will not be (though in this circumstance Space Combat probably will be in the game eventually). I'm sure Bioware will put together a great land based game that is as immersive a Star Wars game as we've seen in a while, that's the important part.
Also... I didn't vote in the poll. For... obvious reasons. =P
Someday we'll all look back on the age of computers - and lol.
Who would design a Star Wars game without meaninful space content?
Well, Bioware for one. Remember Kotor?
Also the guys who made the first Battlefront game, Republic Commando, Jedi Outcast, Dark Forces, Jedi Academy, the orignal designed behind SWG, and The Force Unleashed. I found most of those games enjoyable and felt like they captured the Star Wars experience. Maybe you disagree.
I'd have to Go with Crazy Homeless Person. After all JTL was one of the things that made SWG's really stand out. If you didn't fancy the ground based combat you got to do the space based stuff. And lets face it the space was the better game cause it had collision detection and 3d movement.
JTL is what makes me not want space combat in TOR. JTL was done so badly. The AI only had 2 scripts. In combat they jousted, out of combat they flew their routes. The AI would never try to defend itself, it was always trying to get a bead on you. You also couldn't dodge the AI, their lasers were a typical RPG roll of the dice as to whether or not they miss.
If they plan to put space combat in TOR, they better do it right. I remember an article that mentioned when SWG launched JTL they actually lost subscribers.
"If you're going to act like a noob, I'll treat you like one." -Caskio
I agree it would certainly be a good thing to have in at the start but after going through it with SWG (I played from launch as well) I can honestly say it was not bad. I still enjoyed Galaxies pre JTL and that's saying alot considering all the things that were missing from the game like quests,lack of bugs etc.. Having said that most Star Wars games focus on either one or the other whether we are talking about console or the two mmo's we know about so it really doesn't seem like a stretch or a very big deal to me. I'm kind of fanboish maybe on this point but I actually liked how JTL came out a year later it made expansions mean something which isn't always the case in mmo's.
And Caskio you have a point there JTL had enough fluff like transports to decorate and loot and such to make it worth spending a little time out there but overall the space flight in JTL was done very horribly and I most often went out there just for the radically different scenerey (space as opposed to walking around) but I could really never do more than a mission or two at a time it was just plain horrible. And the worse part is as of the last time I played it it was exactly the same as when I left. To any current SWG players have they ever added or changed anything in JTL other than maybe loot drops and maybe adding a couple of ships?
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Trollish OP is trollish. This is the CORE game. How many game breaking bugs in the core would you want to have in exchange for space combat?
the assumption that the game will somehow be less buggy or more flawless if there is no space content is ridiculous. hey, let's scrap the quest system because it might have bugs, after all quests are just a small part of the game, and hey, let's scrap pvp, and let's scrap raiding and let's scrap group instances... the less stuff the game has, the more polished it will be! so let's get rid of everything.
I don't really need 4 jedi classes personally. 2 is plenty. I'd gladly trade 2 jedi classes for 2 pilot classes. And yes, I know it's not the same thing, but to answer your question, I'd take a few bugs to have a better long term game.
AO and SWG launched with countless bugs and still remain two my favourite MMOs. On the other hand, I encountered virtually zero bugs in LoTRO or AION, but the narrow focus and lack of gameplay options was glaring in both. Cutting out features that will make the game better in the long run for the sake of short term stabilty doesn't necessarily make for a better game. And really, it's not too much to ask for one of the best developers on the planet to have higher design aspirations than other games. Personally, I expect BioWare to do better than SOE or CCP. Just because those developers failed to deliver both ground and space at the same time, I don't expect all other developers to try for less. Maybe I'm too much of an optimist.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
Originally posted by Hyanmen This thread is just so pointless. "LOL 99% of the community that doesn't know jack shit about developing games wouldn't leave space combat out of the game for the initial release, Bioware is dumb!!11"
I'm confuzed now. I've always gotten the impression that you hold an irrational dislike/hatred for BioWare/TOR. Now you are defending BioWare?
Originally posted by Korithian If they plan to put space combat in TOR, they better do it right. I remember an article that mentioned when SWG launched JTL they actually lost subscribers.
By chance was this the article you were reffering to?
Comments
If I wanted to play a flight simulator, I would play Eve or Jumpgate. I spent less than 30 minutes in Star Trek Online because, while I like sci-fi, I hate space flight. The 2 do not have to be synonomous.
I can understand the desire of those who want to see space flight in Star Wars TOR. I am not one of them. I am VERY happy Bioware won't force me to play a spaceship. It would have been a deal breaker for me.
That , said. Some great missions on ships that are in space or space stations orbiting a planet with quests and feature that are technically in space just like a planet is. Would be an absolute bonus.
Lots of potential, to have some great story lines but sadly I just don't see the need for a added flight sim.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I can actually answer this with 100% assurity, SoE did design it without space combat/exploration from the start and Bioware will have it in game from the start. Simply really.
Honestly, I have little desire to see space battles added. If I want to play a space battle sim I will play a space battle sim. I am probably in the minority but that is how I feel about it. I play MMORPG games for the story and character development. This is, of course, my personal preference.
Sif Star Wars has no space flight. Next you'll be telling me there is no jump feature on land.
**pushes spacebar repeatedly**
Pirates of the Burning Seas had land-based and ocean-based combat (somewhat similar to the Ground + Space combat dichotomy). Not that A=B so B=A necessarily, but I found that in PotBS, there was not a very effective balance of gameplay for both. One felt complete the other felt buggy, and served as more of an afterthought that they desperately tried to fit into the game. Bioware is a talented company, their games are always gold.
I think it's just hard when one is given an IP with such devout followers and so much time to follow the game before release. We watch their every move and have so much time on our hands that our minds can't help but wander and wonder. Truth of it is, try not to poison yourself with dreams of what will and will not be (though in this circumstance Space Combat probably will be in the game eventually). I'm sure Bioware will put together a great land based game that is as immersive a Star Wars game as we've seen in a while, that's the important part.
Also... I didn't vote in the poll. For... obvious reasons. =P
Someday we'll all look back on the age of computers - and lol.
any MMo looking to create a stable footing. trying to beta flight and ground at the same time would be a nightmare.
EVE Online has been around for how long now? Seems like forever. It's a flight-only game.
WoW has been around for how long? YOu still can't fight on mounts! Not in the air or on the ground.
People have unrealistic expectations. I suppose some are never satisfied? Was the original Star Wars MMO even released with flight on the first day??
Who would design a Star Wars game without meaninful space content?
Well, Bioware for one. Remember Kotor?
Also the guys who made the first Battlefront game, Republic Commando, Jedi Outcast, Dark Forces, Jedi Academy, the orignal designed behind SWG, and The Force Unleashed. I found most of those games enjoyable and felt like they captured the Star Wars experience. Maybe you disagree.
JTL is what makes me not want space combat in TOR. JTL was done so badly. The AI only had 2 scripts. In combat they jousted, out of combat they flew their routes. The AI would never try to defend itself, it was always trying to get a bead on you. You also couldn't dodge the AI, their lasers were a typical RPG roll of the dice as to whether or not they miss.
If they plan to put space combat in TOR, they better do it right. I remember an article that mentioned when SWG launched JTL they actually lost subscribers.
"If you're going to act like a noob, I'll treat you like one." -Caskio
Adventurers wear fancy pants!!!
I agree it would certainly be a good thing to have in at the start but after going through it with SWG (I played from launch as well) I can honestly say it was not bad. I still enjoyed Galaxies pre JTL and that's saying alot considering all the things that were missing from the game like quests,lack of bugs etc.. Having said that most Star Wars games focus on either one or the other whether we are talking about console or the two mmo's we know about so it really doesn't seem like a stretch or a very big deal to me. I'm kind of fanboish maybe on this point but I actually liked how JTL came out a year later it made expansions mean something which isn't always the case in mmo's.
And Caskio you have a point there JTL had enough fluff like transports to decorate and loot and such to make it worth spending a little time out there but overall the space flight in JTL was done very horribly and I most often went out there just for the radically different scenerey (space as opposed to walking around) but I could really never do more than a mission or two at a time it was just plain horrible. And the worse part is as of the last time I played it it was exactly the same as when I left. To any current SWG players have they ever added or changed anything in JTL other than maybe loot drops and maybe adding a couple of ships?
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Trollish OP is trollish. This is the CORE game. How many game breaking bugs in the core would you want to have in exchange for space combat?
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the assumption that the game will somehow be less buggy or more flawless if there is no space content is ridiculous. hey, let's scrap the quest system because it might have bugs, after all quests are just a small part of the game, and hey, let's scrap pvp, and let's scrap raiding and let's scrap group instances... the less stuff the game has, the more polished it will be! so let's get rid of everything.
I don't really need 4 jedi classes personally. 2 is plenty. I'd gladly trade 2 jedi classes for 2 pilot classes. And yes, I know it's not the same thing, but to answer your question, I'd take a few bugs to have a better long term game.
AO and SWG launched with countless bugs and still remain two my favourite MMOs. On the other hand, I encountered virtually zero bugs in LoTRO or AION, but the narrow focus and lack of gameplay options was glaring in both. Cutting out features that will make the game better in the long run for the sake of short term stabilty doesn't necessarily make for a better game. And really, it's not too much to ask for one of the best developers on the planet to have higher design aspirations than other games. Personally, I expect BioWare to do better than SOE or CCP. Just because those developers failed to deliver both ground and space at the same time, I don't expect all other developers to try for less. Maybe I'm too much of an optimist.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
I believe SOE did, also.
It was mentioned that SWTOR WILL have space combat at launch. You get your own customizable fighter to fly around in.
To the OP: Bioware would
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I'm confuzed now. I've always gotten the impression that you hold an irrational dislike/hatred for BioWare/TOR. Now you are defending BioWare?
What gives? You had a change of heart?
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
[quote]Originally posted by Caskio
[b]
By chance was this the article you were reffering to?
http://www.alltern8.com/library/mmo_games/star_wars_space_combat_and_the_old_republic/l-5178.html]Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play