Its bad conduite as a true reviewwriter to write on personal opinions
This review is all "i this.. i that"- the public dont know you and why care about your personal opinion
After spewing that "I" gotta say that after reading about how Bioware had made ToR much like Mass Effect 2
"I" had to test out Mass Effect 2 to see what people ment
Allready after 2 days of gameplay "I" gotta say if its anything like Mass Effect 2 we got a nice treat ahead of us
Bad conduct for a reviewer to express his personal opinions? since when?
How is he going to review? what kind of opinions other than personal is he going to use? Public opinions? I wasn't aware that reviewers should be going around with a mini squad of 50 or 100 or a 1000 people conducting polls on them for each game their preview or review.
Video Game Reviewers, Cinema Critics, Food Connoisseurs they all do the same thing... they offer their personal opinions. Because other people value their opinions. If you don't think he is experienced or educated enough to perform good reviews then you can ignore his opinions, however claiming a reviewer can't express personal opinion is simply retarded.
"Finally, Jake wanted to assuage fears that Star Wars: The Old Republic wouldn't be a full fledged MMO, and to that end he provided us with a live demo of a group play scenario..." No one questions whether we will be able to group up with friends in this game. The question is whether this game will be heavily instanced or not. If it is heavily instanced then many of us will feel like it is little more than a single-player game with multi-player options. -not worth paying a monthly fee for- And sadly with the announcement that pvp will occur in instances, I think we have our answer I will give them props for designing ships as player housing. That sounds like it could be a brilliant feature, depending on how customuzable the ships and their interior are.
It really is hard to judge the game from E3 demo stuff in my opinion. I think the graphics style and the fact that the game has to play on as many PC systems as possible, remember folks SE will bring FF XIV to PS3 next year for folks that lack a modern computer, will mean that the game will have a current generation mom feel rather than a next gen feel in a way. Really what it comes down to is how much game there is, and we will only really know when the game goes GM. Certainly Bioware have done enough to make me purchase the game, but how long I will play for and sub will depend on if the game is fun and how much content there is.
Where was it said that the majority of the game will be instanced? I remember them throwing out that 90% of the game is open while the other 10% is instanced. Warzones being instanced is fine and dandy to me. After witnessing Wintergrasp before they changed it makes the thought of warzones being "set off" seem a little more pleasant. Also, the battlegrounds in WoW were better for doing this. Though, I'm thinking that open pvp will be alive and well we get to the final cut.
I can see the poster's point about PvP in instances being an issue. I don't like the set-up of battlegrounds either. The games I've played that had battlegrounds for PvP usually didn't keep my interest going for that kind of PvP. Large, off-set zones or some ability to flag in the open world are what I would hope for, and it sounds like the warzones are more like the former i.e. are larger and less claustrophobic than WoW or WAR battlegrounds. At least that's what I'm hoping.
Theres been alot about the announcements about SW:TOR that have underwhelmed me, I am a huge SW fan but right now TERA Online is my future game of choice.
Take all information from the company itself as hype, and take player feedback with a grain of salt. The truth will lie somewhere in between... and since so far we are only getting company blurbs, I will severely downplay anything they say about the game until I get actual player feedback.
It's funny that on here, there's more people wanting to believe in things we AREN'T being told, based on no facts, than being objective about the product.
I've yet to see anyone who 100% believes that SWTOR will be a monumental success beyond a shadow of a doubt. And yet, there are those who DO 100% believe that it can no way be successful in any form. Its like we've gone from seeing rabid fanboi's everywhere to rabid haters everywhere. Neither of which are actually objective, realistic or helpful. However both camps base their "opinions" on very little factual evidence.
Nicely put Tarka. I think what annoys me the most is how so many people jump on Bioware for releasing such little information yet if they revealed all their plans to us then had to cut content everyone would hate them for that. I think at this point in the games life cycle we should examine how its turning out so far.
Also the video is a low level group and I haven't seen a game where low level healers really have a lot to do and even in the KOTOR series consulars could focus on healing a lot. We also saw the consular use a lot of crowd control but that got ignored by the author. Not to mention how often the consular was standing still and doing nothing to show us the action.
My biggest annoyance with this site is that the writers appear to have the fan boy mentality that they want to see the game fail and are over emphasizing the smallest of complaints.
It's funny that on here, there's more people wanting to believe in things we AREN'T being told, based on no facts, than being objective about the product.
I've yet to see anyone who 100% believes that SWTOR will be a monumental success beyond a shadow of a doubt. And yet, there are those who DO 100% believe that it can no way be successful in any form. Its like we've gone from seeing rabid fanboi's everywhere to rabid haters everywhere. Neither of which are actually objective, realistic or helpful. However both camps base their "opinions" on very little factual evidence.
Nicely put Tarka. I think what annoys me the most is how so many people jump on Bioware for releasing such little information yet if they revealed all their plans to us then had to cut content everyone would hate them for that. I think at this point in the games life cycle we should examine how its turning out so far.
Also the video is a low level group and I haven't seen a game where low level healers really have a lot to do and even in the KOTOR series consulars could focus on healing a lot. We also saw the consular use a lot of crowd control but that got ignored by the author. Not to mention how often the consular was standing still and doing nothing to show us the action.
My biggest annoyance with this site is that the writers appear to have the fan boy mentality that they want to see the game fail and are over emphasizing the smallest of complaints.
I agree with both Tarka and kcypher2000. It seems like for the PR people of MMOs it's hell if they do, hell if they don't with an emphasis more and more on the latter rather than the former. I'm not sure what sparks peoples' passions other than they're letting off steam on forums because they've been disappointed in the past.
The problem is that it snowballs. Since these games quite often aren't advertised in the same way as other products, word-of-mouth is important. If players keep bashing, I think it will turn off other players who could eventually find themselves missing a game that they'll really like.
Maybe it's just my perception of these boards and boards like these that MMO players are becoming jaded from reading the forums. It seems to me that players don't try things for themselves as much as they used to. But my viewpoint could be biased because these players are not as vocal on the forums. I am hoping that they are the non-vocal majority, otherwise I think it will eventually seriously mess up the genre.
I don't get the impression that MMORPG is anti-SW:ToR per se. They are still giving the game a lot of coverage and releasing neutral news items about it. The writers are perfectly within their own rights to express their opinion in their opinion pieces. It's up to the reader to vet them, and either agree or disagree. I definitely wouldn't categorize the staff on these boards as haters! If their comments are slightly negative.. ok, but that doesn't make them haters. (I'm pretty sure you didn't mean fanboys who hate kcypher2000, that doesn't make much sense).
As an aside, the videos I've seen of SW:ToR aren't as flashy as say TERA's, but that's ok to me. I am actually pleased by what I've seen because they remind me of KoToR. I am glad for that, and I don't mind if the graphics aren't as beautiful as AoC's let's say. They still look the part: I like how things look in the The Old Republic games, like retrograde Star Wars (not the graphics quality, but the way objects, uniforms, etc. look).
"(I'm pretty sure you didn't mean fanboys who hate kcypher2000, that doesn't make much sense)"
I meant fan boys simply because, from my observations ,the majority of people in the gaming community who quickly jump to tirades wanting to see X game fail is not due to them being haters of X game but more because they are fan boys of Y game and want nothing to "beat" it. Or in the case of Star wars they are avid fan boys of the Lore etc and hate anything that deviates from the original series or what they consider to be canon.
So far the general vibe I have gotten from most articles on this site related to TOR are very biased against it with little to not merit. Such as complaining that low level healers need to heal in groups, Jedis shouldn't heal, Sith warriors have no ranged moves while ignoring the many videos we have seen where they get some at higher levels. Questing system is boring even though they skip through it all.
What I want to see is more objective articles on how the game actually plays. If the dialog system is boring, if combat is dull and if so why. Does the game have performance issues, do the classes feel the same etc.
First, I am sure Bioware isnt telling us or showing us everything. Second, with release about a year away, things will be added, and things will be deleted by the final release. Third, no one here has any idea what the final product will be like. As for me I will wait till it comes out, and in the mean time hope for the best. Let me just add a piece of advise that has served me well over the years... Its is better to keep your mouth shut and look ignorant, then to open it and prove it.
Cool thx for the update! Alas it looks like for those who want refreshing, innovative, or different gameplay, they will have to keep away from TOR. At least it's upfront with Bioware, no lies or sugarcoating! Don't complain if it's nothing new, it's not trying to be.
Agreed. I think Bioware is merely taking a tried and true MMO formula here and applying it to a well-known IP (maybe even looking to add non-MMO players). Looking at the one-time success and then failure of SWG, I'm not sure why they'd want to take any big risks and try something different, there are plenty of start-up game companies out there doing that already.
Look at Tarka, throwing a temper tantrum like a child everytime someone brings up a valid concern about SWTOR and then attempting to convince people that his fanaticism isn't blind...please.
You SWTOR fans are going to be just like all the WAR and AoC fanboys 2 weeks after release that found out that they didn't want to play WoW again.
Learning the hard way...you people never cease to amaze me.
_________________________________ "Fixed it. Because that wall of text attacked me, killed me and looted my body..." -George "sniperg" Light
Maybe it's just my perception of these boards and boards like these that MMO players are becoming jaded from reading the forums. It seems to me that players don't try things for themselves as much as they used to.
I do feel a little jaded with regards to MMOs, but that is to do with the games themselves, not with any forums about them. I will admit that I do not try things as much these days as I am no longer interested in spending money to try a game that has the same old boring game mechanics that every MMO in the last 6 years has had. It doesn't look like I will try SW:TOR for this same reason either. But I, and I believe most other people, base their decisions on the information released by the developers, not the forum conversations about those releases.
In my opinion, Bioware have made some large missteps in their PR campaign for this game. The PR campaign is honestly one of the hardest things for game developers these days to wrap their heads around (and it is a lot more important now than it was 5 years ago). People can, and will, make a decision on wether to play a game based on the information prior to release. If you lose someone 10 months out or even 6 months prior to release, the likelihood of that person coming back isn't high. They move on and start to follow other games that show more promise.
Of course the numbers of people doing this are relatively small when you take into account the overall subscriber base, but these people are vocal and they are important in formulating word of mouth. Not enough developers realise this. Making stupid, or at the least ill-conceived, statements can really hurt your launch day subscriber numbers.
Cool thx for the update! Alas it looks like for those who want refreshing, innovative, or different gameplay, they will have to keep away from TOR. At least it's upfront with Bioware, no lies or sugarcoating! Don't complain if it's nothing new, it's not trying to be.
Agreed. I think Bioware is merely taking a tried and true MMO formula here and applying it to a well-known IP (maybe even looking to add non-MMO players). Looking at the one-time success and then failure of SWG, I'm not sure why they'd want to take any big risks and try something different, there are plenty of start-up game companies out there doing that already.
There's nothing too terrible in Bioware aiming the game at the WoW market as long as the game is immersive and has good story arcs for the classes it could be a lot of fun. The downside might be the game is too dumbed down to feel immersive and the graphics by not exactly being of the kind to blow people away will detract to the feeling of being in a futuristic scyfy world. We will see next year I guess.
"(I'm pretty sure you didn't mean fanboys who hate kcypher2000, that doesn't make much sense)"
I meant fan boys simply because, from my observations ,the majority of people in the gaming community who quickly jump to tirades wanting to see X game fail is not due to them being haters of X game but more because they are fan boys of Y game and want nothing to "beat" it. Or in the case of Star wars they are avid fan boys of the Lore etc and hate anything that deviates from the original series or what they consider to be canon.
So far the general vibe I have gotten from most articles on this site related to TOR are very biased against it with little to not merit. Such as complaining that low level healers need to heal in groups, Jedis shouldn't heal, Sith warriors have no ranged moves while ignoring the many videos we have seen where they get some at higher levels. Questing system is boring even though they skip through it all.
What I want to see is more objective articles on how the game actually plays. If the dialog system is boring, if combat is dull and if so why. Does the game have performance issues, do the classes feel the same etc.
Oh ok, I see. Gotcha! So what game do you think these haters are fanbois of that are making them bash SW:ToR? I'm not trying to put you on the spot at all, just curious because I couldn't say.
I agree with you about other things you mention with respect to the site and its articles. It does seem like the writers are negative about ToR so far, but I think they say things calmly, unlike haters. I have noticed there is a definite bandwagon with reviewers and commentators here such as in the whole F2P thing, and before that the DFO thing...
I do feel a little jaded with regards to MMOs, but that is to do with the games themselves, not with any forums about them. I will admit that I do not try things as much these days as I am no longer interested in spending money to try a game that has the same old boring game mechanics that every MMO in the last 6 years has had. It doesn't look like I will try SW:TOR for this same reason either. But I, and I believe most other people, base their decisions on the information released by the developers, not the forum conversations about those releases.
Hmmm.... If people were following the game development even a bit more closely, I think that they wouldn't be saying some of the things they say on these boards, such as in about the Consular only being a healer and not being able to use a lightsabre for example (that's including the professional reviewers).
In my opinion, Bioware have made some large missteps in their PR campaign for this game. The PR campaign is honestly one of the hardest things for game developers these days to wrap their heads around (and it is a lot more important now than it was 5 years ago). People can, and will, make a decision on wether to play a game based on the information prior to release. If you lose someone 10 months out or even 6 months prior to release, the likelihood of that person coming back isn't high. They move on and start to follow other games that show more promise.
If you go by MMORPG's reviews and previews of ToR, you could also be seeing a mainly negative impression because that is what they're mainly showing. I guess I'm an oddity the way I go about things. I wait until after release to hear what people say. Then I check back a month, then again a few months, to see what else they're saying. When the game gives a free trial, I go do the free trial. In the end, I don't spend money on things I'm not sure about. I've avoided STO and CO that way I'm doing the same thing with CoG, APB, and MO right now. It's a cautious method, but I've been burnt a few times so that I know now never to preorder or do a life-time sub. I sometimes buy at release, but very very rarely.
Of course the numbers of people doing this are relatively small when you take into account the overall subscriber base, but these people are vocal and they are important in formulating word of mouth. Not enough developers realise this. Making stupid, or at the least ill-conceived, statements can really hurt your launch day subscriber numbers.
they also said that the group fight they showed and what you are talking about was a fairly low level fight, i wouldnt worry too much about your concern with the consular ONLY healing...im sure the consular will bring plenty of utility once you are higher level with more abilities at your disposal
I do not like the idea of healers in the SW IP. It goes against the original lore and makes combat more boring.
This game will go against another AAA game at launch, GW2. And GW2 will have a very different system of managing stuff like that, no healers or tanks (even if the classes can get self heal).
TOR better be an overall better game if it wants to win that duel, the fact that GW2 wont have monthly fees or item shops (they will however sell expansions and mini expansions) while TOR will have both doesn't speak for TOR either.
I have a very high opinion of Bioware and while I don't doubt that this game will have over a million subs I don't see it win against GW2 and it seems like both games will launch at the same time.
Different games, different styles and concepts . I think you are miles off. The game will do well, the content will be a winner. GW2 can't compete with that.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
If you go by MMORPG's reviews and previews of ToR, you could also be seeing a mainly negative impression because that is what they're mainly showing. I guess I'm an oddity the way I go about things. I wait until after release to hear what people say. Then I check back a month, then again a few months, to see what else they're saying. When the game gives a free trial, I go do the free trial. In the end, I don't spend money on things I'm not sure about. I've avoided STO and CO that way I'm doing the same thing with CoG, APB, and MO right now. It's a cautious method, but I've been burnt a few times so that I know now never to preorder or do a life-time sub. I sometimes buy at release, but very very rarely.
This works ok, well even, when there are few games being released and you can pick and choose. I know a lot of gamers who buy copious amounts of games but the trend that I see with MMOs is that people prefer to find one and stick with it for a long period of time - I guess it has to do with character progression and seeing your avatar grow (swapping games every 2 months doesn't really provide that satisfaction).
However, when there are a number of titles being released within short time frames, as we have in the next 18 months then choosing a game to follow and invest your time in becomes more important. A similar thing happened when AoC and WAR came out on similar timelines. People, and in fact entire guilds, decided on a game and followed and played it. So pre-release PR is very important. Of course you can be like Mythic and tell a horrid amount of lies to bulk out your pre-release campaign and ensure a large subscriber base at launch. But look what that did to their reputation and long term cash flow. I think people are being a little smarter these days.
Arenanet are talking about things that are already in the game, already playable. Bioware seem hesitant to release information on things that have not been fully tested, to ensure they aren't making promises they can't keep. And the TSW crew seem to have collapsed into a collective coma.
What you choose to reveal and when you choose to reveal it is an extremely important aspect of MMO development these days. It is also a difficult tightrope act of providing information without making unkeepable promises. I think that Bioware have made mistakes in the type of content they have chosen to reveal and the comments that have accompanied them. They have almost been their own worst enemies when it comes to their PR campaign, making statements that all but invite criticism.
They just need to be a little smarter is all. I think they will have a good launch and have a substantial number of subscribers at launch, due to the IP if nothing else, but the number won't be as large as it could have been due to their miscalculations prior to launch.
If you go by MMORPG's reviews and previews of ToR, you could also be seeing a mainly negative impression because that is what they're mainly showing. I guess I'm an oddity the way I go about things. I wait until after release to hear what people say. Then I check back a month, then again a few months, to see what else they're saying. When the game gives a free trial, I go do the free trial. In the end, I don't spend money on things I'm not sure about. I've avoided STO and CO that way I'm doing the same thing with CoG, APB, and MO right now. It's a cautious method, but I've been burnt a few times so that I know now never to preorder or do a life-time sub. I sometimes buy at release, but very very rarely.
This works ok, well even, when there are few games being released and you can pick and choose. I know a lot of gamers who buy copious amounts of games but the trend that I see with MMOs is that people prefer to find one and stick with it for a long period of time - I guess it has to do with character progression and seeing your avatar grow (swapping games every 2 months doesn't really provide that satisfaction).
However, when there are a number of titles being released within short time frames, as we have in the next 18 months then choosing a game to follow and invest your time in becomes more important. A similar thing happened when AoC and WAR came out on similar timelines. People, and in fact entire guilds, decided on a game and followed and played it. So pre-release PR is very important. Of course you can be like Mythic and tell a horrid amount of lies to bulk out your pre-release campaign and ensure a large subscriber base at launch. But look what that did to their reputation and long term cash flow. I think people are being a little smarter these days.
Arenanet are talking about things that are already in the game, already playable. Bioware seem hesitant to release information on things that have not been fully tested, to ensure they aren't making promises they can't keep. And the TSW crew seem to have collapsed into a collective coma.
What you choose to reveal and when you choose to reveal it is an extremely important aspect of MMO development these days. It is also a difficult tightrope act of providing information without making unkeepable promises. I think that Bioware have made mistakes in the type of content they have chosen to reveal and the comments that have accompanied them. They have almost been their own worst enemies when it comes to their PR campaign, making statements that all but invite criticism.
They just need to be a little smarter is all. I think they will have a good launch and have a substantial number of subscribers at launch, due to the IP if nothing else, but the number won't be as large as it could have been due to their miscalculations prior to launch.
Agreed. Bioware haven't offered a balanced perspective on the game yet, thus it's seen in a bad light to some. This is why they need to address that now. Find out what the critisism is, and if its just a matter of perspective, then address it directly.
A new video showing a different group composition that shows perspectives from all four classes could go a long way to dealing with this. They could even make one showing PVP battles.
This works ok, well even, when there are few games being released and you can pick and choose. I know a lot of gamers who buy copious amounts of games but the trend that I see with MMOs is that people prefer to find one and stick with it for a long period of time - I guess it has to do with character progression and seeing your avatar grow (swapping games every 2 months doesn't really provide that satisfaction).
I think less and less people are sticking long-term to a game. I'm coming across more game hoppers all the time, with EvE being the exception. I think people are feeling less satisfied of seeing their characters grow. The thing that seems to keep people in games is not just character progression, but community as well. How many times have you come across people saying they don't really like WoW that much but stay because their friends play it?
However, when there are a number of titles being released within short time frames, as we have in the next 18 months then choosing a game to follow and invest your time in becomes more important. A similar thing happened when AoC and WAR came out on similar timelines. People, and in fact entire guilds, decided on a game and followed and played it. So pre-release PR is very important. Of course you can be like Mythic and tell a horrid amount of lies to bulk out your pre-release campaign and ensure a large subscriber base at launch. But look what that did to their reputation and long term cash flow. I think people are being a little smarter these days.
My way of doing things works out well when there are lots of games being released too. It all depends on personal levels of patience and how loose you are with your pursestrings. I wasn't sure about AoC, FC lied more than Jacobs did. I went with WAR and enjoyed it until I had technical issues with the billing site, so for me WAR was a good choice to try out even at release. I am glad I waited to try out AoC until they had a free trial, because as it stands now, I'm still on the fence about whether to get the game and play it beyond Tortage.
Arenanet are talking about things that are already in the game, already playable. Bioware seem hesitant to release information on things that have not been fully tested, to ensure they aren't making promises they can't keep. And the TSW crew seem to have collapsed into a collective coma.
What you choose to reveal and when you choose to reveal it is an extremely important aspect of MMO development these days. It is also a difficult tightrope act of providing information without making unkeepable promises. I think that Bioware have made mistakes in the type of content they have chosen to reveal and the comments that have accompanied them. They have almost been their own worst enemies when it comes to their PR campaign, making statements that all but invite criticism.
This might be so, but I think it's virtually impossible to get everything right with PR nowadays. It really does seem to be a hell if you do, hell if you don't because someone is always going to find fault with something.
They just need to be a little smarter is all. I think they will have a good launch and have a substantial number of subscribers at launch, due to the IP if nothing else, but the number won't be as large as it could have been due to their miscalculations prior to launch.
They do indeed need to be smarter, but since MMOs are out for long periods of time (a few exceptions of MMOs that closed down), I would be surprised if the PR now would forever keep people from trying out this game, or any game for that matter. I know that if something didn't impress me from PR or hype before release of an MMO, that doesn't mean I'll never try it.
Comments
Bad conduct for a reviewer to express his personal opinions? since when?
How is he going to review? what kind of opinions other than personal is he going to use? Public opinions? I wasn't aware that reviewers should be going around with a mini squad of 50 or 100 or a 1000 people conducting polls on them for each game their preview or review.
Video Game Reviewers, Cinema Critics, Food Connoisseurs they all do the same thing... they offer their personal opinions. Because other people value their opinions. If you don't think he is experienced or educated enough to perform good reviews then you can ignore his opinions, however claiming a reviewer can't express personal opinion is simply retarded.
It really is hard to judge the game from E3 demo stuff in my opinion. I think the graphics style and the fact that the game has to play on as many PC systems as possible, remember folks SE will bring FF XIV to PS3 next year for folks that lack a modern computer, will mean that the game will have a current generation mom feel rather than a next gen feel in a way. Really what it comes down to is how much game there is, and we will only really know when the game goes GM. Certainly Bioware have done enough to make me purchase the game, but how long I will play for and sub will depend on if the game is fun and how much content there is.I can see the poster's point about PvP in instances being an issue. I don't like the set-up of battlegrounds either. The games I've played that had battlegrounds for PvP usually didn't keep my interest going for that kind of PvP. Large, off-set zones or some ability to flag in the open world are what I would hope for, and it sounds like the warzones are more like the former i.e. are larger and less claustrophobic than WoW or WAR battlegrounds. At least that's what I'm hoping.
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
Theres been alot about the announcements about SW:TOR that have underwhelmed me, I am a huge SW fan but right now TERA Online is my future game of choice.
Nicely put Tarka. I think what annoys me the most is how so many people jump on Bioware for releasing such little information yet if they revealed all their plans to us then had to cut content everyone would hate them for that. I think at this point in the games life cycle we should examine how its turning out so far.
Also the video is a low level group and I haven't seen a game where low level healers really have a lot to do and even in the KOTOR series consulars could focus on healing a lot. We also saw the consular use a lot of crowd control but that got ignored by the author. Not to mention how often the consular was standing still and doing nothing to show us the action.
My biggest annoyance with this site is that the writers appear to have the fan boy mentality that they want to see the game fail and are over emphasizing the smallest of complaints.
I agree with both Tarka and kcypher2000. It seems like for the PR people of MMOs it's hell if they do, hell if they don't with an emphasis more and more on the latter rather than the former. I'm not sure what sparks peoples' passions other than they're letting off steam on forums because they've been disappointed in the past.
The problem is that it snowballs. Since these games quite often aren't advertised in the same way as other products, word-of-mouth is important. If players keep bashing, I think it will turn off other players who could eventually find themselves missing a game that they'll really like.
Maybe it's just my perception of these boards and boards like these that MMO players are becoming jaded from reading the forums. It seems to me that players don't try things for themselves as much as they used to. But my viewpoint could be biased because these players are not as vocal on the forums. I am hoping that they are the non-vocal majority, otherwise I think it will eventually seriously mess up the genre.
I don't get the impression that MMORPG is anti-SW:ToR per se. They are still giving the game a lot of coverage and releasing neutral news items about it. The writers are perfectly within their own rights to express their opinion in their opinion pieces. It's up to the reader to vet them, and either agree or disagree. I definitely wouldn't categorize the staff on these boards as haters! If their comments are slightly negative.. ok, but that doesn't make them haters. (I'm pretty sure you didn't mean fanboys who hate kcypher2000, that doesn't make much sense).
As an aside, the videos I've seen of SW:ToR aren't as flashy as say TERA's, but that's ok to me. I am actually pleased by what I've seen because they remind me of KoToR. I am glad for that, and I don't mind if the graphics aren't as beautiful as AoC's let's say. They still look the part: I like how things look in the The Old Republic games, like retrograde Star Wars (not the graphics quality, but the way objects, uniforms, etc. look).
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
"(I'm pretty sure you didn't mean fanboys who hate kcypher2000, that doesn't make much sense)"
I meant fan boys simply because, from my observations ,the majority of people in the gaming community who quickly jump to tirades wanting to see X game fail is not due to them being haters of X game but more because they are fan boys of Y game and want nothing to "beat" it. Or in the case of Star wars they are avid fan boys of the Lore etc and hate anything that deviates from the original series or what they consider to be canon.
So far the general vibe I have gotten from most articles on this site related to TOR are very biased against it with little to not merit. Such as complaining that low level healers need to heal in groups, Jedis shouldn't heal, Sith warriors have no ranged moves while ignoring the many videos we have seen where they get some at higher levels. Questing system is boring even though they skip through it all.
What I want to see is more objective articles on how the game actually plays. If the dialog system is boring, if combat is dull and if so why. Does the game have performance issues, do the classes feel the same etc.
First, I am sure Bioware isnt telling us or showing us everything. Second, with release about a year away, things will be added, and things will be deleted by the final release. Third, no one here has any idea what the final product will be like. As for me I will wait till it comes out, and in the mean time hope for the best. Let me just add a piece of advise that has served me well over the years... Its is better to keep your mouth shut and look ignorant, then to open it and prove it.
Agreed. I think Bioware is merely taking a tried and true MMO formula here and applying it to a well-known IP (maybe even looking to add non-MMO players). Looking at the one-time success and then failure of SWG, I'm not sure why they'd want to take any big risks and try something different, there are plenty of start-up game companies out there doing that already.Look at Tarka, throwing a temper tantrum like a child everytime someone brings up a valid concern about SWTOR and then attempting to convince people that his fanaticism isn't blind...please.
You SWTOR fans are going to be just like all the WAR and AoC fanboys 2 weeks after release that found out that they didn't want to play WoW again.
Learning the hard way...you people never cease to amaze me.
_________________________________
"Fixed it. Because that wall of text attacked me, killed me and looted my body..."
-George "sniperg" Light
I do feel a little jaded with regards to MMOs, but that is to do with the games themselves, not with any forums about them. I will admit that I do not try things as much these days as I am no longer interested in spending money to try a game that has the same old boring game mechanics that every MMO in the last 6 years has had. It doesn't look like I will try SW:TOR for this same reason either. But I, and I believe most other people, base their decisions on the information released by the developers, not the forum conversations about those releases.
In my opinion, Bioware have made some large missteps in their PR campaign for this game. The PR campaign is honestly one of the hardest things for game developers these days to wrap their heads around (and it is a lot more important now than it was 5 years ago). People can, and will, make a decision on wether to play a game based on the information prior to release. If you lose someone 10 months out or even 6 months prior to release, the likelihood of that person coming back isn't high. They move on and start to follow other games that show more promise.
Of course the numbers of people doing this are relatively small when you take into account the overall subscriber base, but these people are vocal and they are important in formulating word of mouth. Not enough developers realise this. Making stupid, or at the least ill-conceived, statements can really hurt your launch day subscriber numbers.
Agreed. I think Bioware is merely taking a tried and true MMO formula here and applying it to a well-known IP (maybe even looking to add non-MMO players). Looking at the one-time success and then failure of SWG, I'm not sure why they'd want to take any big risks and try something different, there are plenty of start-up game companies out there doing that already.
There's nothing too terrible in Bioware aiming the game at the WoW market as long as the game is immersive and has good story arcs for the classes it could be a lot of fun. The downside might be the game is too dumbed down to feel immersive and the graphics by not exactly being of the kind to blow people away will detract to the feeling of being in a futuristic scyfy world. We will see next year I guess.Oh ok, I see. Gotcha! So what game do you think these haters are fanbois of that are making them bash SW:ToR? I'm not trying to put you on the spot at all, just curious because I couldn't say.
I agree with you about other things you mention with respect to the site and its articles. It does seem like the writers are negative about ToR so far, but I think they say things calmly, unlike haters. I have noticed there is a definite bandwagon with reviewers and commentators here such as in the whole F2P thing, and before that the DFO thing...
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
they also said that the group fight they showed and what you are talking about was a fairly low level fight, i wouldnt worry too much about your concern with the consular ONLY healing...im sure the consular will bring plenty of utility once you are higher level with more abilities at your disposal
Different games, different styles and concepts . I think you are miles off. The game will do well, the content will be a winner. GW2 can't compete with that.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
This works ok, well even, when there are few games being released and you can pick and choose. I know a lot of gamers who buy copious amounts of games but the trend that I see with MMOs is that people prefer to find one and stick with it for a long period of time - I guess it has to do with character progression and seeing your avatar grow (swapping games every 2 months doesn't really provide that satisfaction).
However, when there are a number of titles being released within short time frames, as we have in the next 18 months then choosing a game to follow and invest your time in becomes more important. A similar thing happened when AoC and WAR came out on similar timelines. People, and in fact entire guilds, decided on a game and followed and played it. So pre-release PR is very important. Of course you can be like Mythic and tell a horrid amount of lies to bulk out your pre-release campaign and ensure a large subscriber base at launch. But look what that did to their reputation and long term cash flow. I think people are being a little smarter these days.
Arenanet are talking about things that are already in the game, already playable. Bioware seem hesitant to release information on things that have not been fully tested, to ensure they aren't making promises they can't keep. And the TSW crew seem to have collapsed into a collective coma.
What you choose to reveal and when you choose to reveal it is an extremely important aspect of MMO development these days. It is also a difficult tightrope act of providing information without making unkeepable promises. I think that Bioware have made mistakes in the type of content they have chosen to reveal and the comments that have accompanied them. They have almost been their own worst enemies when it comes to their PR campaign, making statements that all but invite criticism.
They just need to be a little smarter is all. I think they will have a good launch and have a substantial number of subscribers at launch, due to the IP if nothing else, but the number won't be as large as it could have been due to their miscalculations prior to launch.
Agreed. Bioware haven't offered a balanced perspective on the game yet, thus it's seen in a bad light to some. This is why they need to address that now. Find out what the critisism is, and if its just a matter of perspective, then address it directly.
A new video showing a different group composition that shows perspectives from all four classes could go a long way to dealing with this. They could even make one showing PVP battles.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.