When you guys say that games like MO and DF are not sandbox, what do you mean by that? Simply because they focus on pvp is not a sandbox? You can RP if you want, interact when chatting with other players, acting like you are William wallace with the claymore of pure ownage, make your own story, kill some mobs because you feel like it, explore a dungeon because you feel like it... You got the point.
If both these games are not sandbox to you, then dont tell me that by lack of sandbox content, you mean lack of quests to do or stuff like that. Sandbox games got no instance meaning that they are support to encourage players to get togheter and play in the same world.
Last thing, think of the word sandbox next time you wonder if a game is sandbox or not. Go to the park near where you live and watch the kids playing on the sandbox. Who bring the tools on the sandbox? The kids. How do they use their tools? With their imagination. Same goes with Mortal online and darkfall. You guys better take back that sandbox feeling before you ask for one.
The kids can take their own tools to a real, literal sandbox, but gamers cannot take their own tools to a video game sandbox can they? You get what is provided for you, and the argument from my point of view is that MO doesn't provide much in the way of sand. When we're talking about a sandbox MMO, surely the "sand" is the world itself? It's where all player interaction, both PvP and PvE takes place, it provides the context and motivation for player interaction. When two guilds wage war on each other, it's to make some kind of impact on the MMO world such as territory control and to somehow advance the success of their avatar within the game.
From the open beta, I found MO's world to be very lifeless and static simply because there isn't anything to play around with. The open world is empty with just some respawning wildlife and res nodes in it, the NPC cities are just empty buildings with some vending machines in them. You can point to MO being PvP-orientated, but without a fleshed-out, living, breathing world to provide motivation for such activities, it becomes PvP for the sake of PvP. The world is little more than a giant arena for players to bash each other over the head in. That isn't sandbox as far as I'm concerned, any more than UT3 is. Ultimately, a guild could conquer the world in MO, but ultimately the world doesn't care, it just carries on, unchanged and uncaring.
While I'm playing UT3 I can use my imagination and pretend to be a legend in the bloodsport arena, but I wouldn't call it sandbox just because of that.
Sandbox games like Dwarf Fortress, GTA4 and the like are "good" in my opinion because they provide the player with tonnes of content for them to go nuts in and play around with. When playing I'm constantly thinking "I wonder what happens if I do this..." and that is why it's so fun. MO on the other hand goes the other way and gives the player nothing to mess around with, just a crafting system and FFA PvP combat, both of which are in other MMOs anyway.
Ya know, I think it'll last a while, just look at Warhammer...
This. Or check Asherons call. How old is that game and how small is the playerbase? Yet it is still there and you are able to play it. As long it gives at least 0.0001% profit it will be alive :P
Since Avi seems to be keeping DFO floating with very little cash I don't see any reason why SV can't.
DFO released in extremely bad shape too but they fixed it up, I don't see why MO can't do the same.
Understand we're totally speculating here, you should remember that that AV limited the number of accounts it was willing to sell. The demand was grossly beyond what AV wanted to meet. None of us have hard numbers but having been on the DFO server at release and the MO server at release there is like no comparison what-so-ever to the number of players. DFO's virtual world is conservatively 10x greater (probably more than that) than MO's world and it was PACKED. MO is hardly packed.
The point I'm making is AV appears to have had a much larger influx of capital to work with than SV and 40% or more did NOT cancel after the 30-days of DFO like appears to be happening in MO.
-CC
"Lately it occurs to me, what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
Since Avi seems to be keeping DFO floating with very little cash I don't see any reason why SV can't.
DFO released in extremely bad shape too but they fixed it up, I don't see why MO can't do the same.
Understand we're totally speculating here, you should remember that that AV limited the number of accounts it was willing to sell. The demand was grossly beyond what AV wanted to meet. None of us have hard numbers but having been on the DFO server at release and the MO server at release there is like no comparison what-so-ever to the number of players. DFO's virtual world is conservatively 10x greater (probably more than that) than MO's world and it was PACKED. MO is hardly packed.
The point I'm making is AV appears to have had a much larger influx of capital to work with than SV and 40% or more did NOT cancel after the 30-days of DFO like appears to be happening in MO.
-CC
Considering the only thing to do is PvP, and considering
View Poll Results: Are you happy with the current PVP system/balance?
It never ceases to amaze me how the sandbox folk complain and complain about a lack of games appealing to them to the point of it getting utterly annoying, but when a company comes along that tries to give them what they want, they do everything in their power to grind the game to dust. Whether that be forum smear campaigns, sensationalistic polls or the like.
Mortal Online is a piss poor sandbox just as much as Darkfall is a pvp game and not a sandbox. UO and SWG were the only two really good sandboxes that I can remember, with uo, imo, being the better of the two in every way except crafting/gathering. Look to the worst themepark mmo and tell me that people who like themeparks won't crush it into dust. Bottom line is that MO is in late alpha stage and its looking pretty raw, unfinished, and unprofessional.
It never ceases to amaze me how the sandbox folk complain and complain about a lack of games appealing to them to the point of it getting utterly annoying, but when a company comes along that tries to give them what they want, they do everything in their power to grind the game to dust. Whether that be forum smear campaigns, sensationalistic polls or the like.
Mortal Online is a piss poor sandbox just as much as Darkfall is a pvp game and not a sandbox. UO and SWG were the only two really good sandboxes that I can remember, with uo, imo, being the better of the two in every way except crafting/gathering. Look to the worst themepark mmo and tell me that people who like themeparks won't crush it into dust. Bottom line is that MO is in late alpha stage and its looking pretty raw, unfinished, and unprofessional.
No, it is more Gamma stage then Alpha stage right now.
Since Avi seems to be keeping DFO floating with very little cash I don't see any reason why SV can't.
DFO released in extremely bad shape too but they fixed it up, I don't see why MO can't do the same.
Understand we're totally speculating here, you should remember that that AV limited the number of accounts it was willing to sell. The demand was grossly beyond what AV wanted to meet. None of us have hard numbers but having been on the DFO server at release and the MO server at release there is like no comparison what-so-ever to the number of players. DFO's virtual world is conservatively 10x greater (probably more than that) than MO's world and it was PACKED. MO is hardly packed.
The point I'm making is AV appears to have had a much larger influx of capital to work with than SV and 40% or more did NOT cancel after the 30-days of DFO like appears to be happening in MO.
-CC
Difference is, while MO dont mind being niche, DF always wished to get high amount of player base. DF spent more years and more money during development plus the army money. MO lack money, but i dont think they got dept problem like DF have.
All i can say about MO is that I did not play more than 30 mins. I was really sad when i started to play bacause i though the game concept and system was worth the cost but as a mmo player i think i deserve more than nice skies and nice weather animation to play a game. The game is broken, when you use your axe to get some lumber it is always the same animation... they didnt even take the time to make different movements. when you kill a dangerous beast like a squirel, it dies flat on the ground ... no falling animation, just teleported on the ground with the same blood patch for all the squirel corpses. Why do they release a game when they know it will not do the job? Some of the developper might have kids ... let them try the game before release ... they would probably not play long on MO.
I think we (the MMO player community) deserve more than this game. It sickens me to see that devs just dont care about us even if they make games for us.
For the pool i wish it was less than 1 month but i know some sheeps will continue to pay the sub wishing it gets better so i think i t will last about a year.
Two months in what can only be described as life support quality before the game shuts down. There will be a patch and multiple hotfixes which will not be able to solve any of the problems that currently plague Mortal Online. There are some of the fans who are willing to look past the problems but the number of them is getting fewer and fewer.
MO and Darkfall are examples of how a game needs to get its most basic functions down first, then go on to try and do all these different things. If the Mortal Online gameplay was really, really fun then I'd probably be playing right now. Just, that wasn't the case. Literally ALL of the resources should have gone into creating a decent feeling when you swing weapons, etc. Don't worry so much about book skills and all this nonsensical garbage.
Same with DF. The game feels terrible to someone who plays any decent video games. Everything is just not good. It's really no wonder that only the MMO following crowd ever hears of these games in the first place.
All i can say about MO is that I did not play more than 30 mins. I was really sad when i started to play bacause i though the game concept and system was worth the cost but as a mmo player i think i deserve more than nice skies and nice weather animation to play a game. The game is broken, when you use your axe to get some lumber it is always the same animation... they didnt even take the time to make different movements. when you kill a dangerous beast like a squirel, it dies flat on the ground ... no falling animation, just teleported on the ground with the same blood patch for all the squirel corpses. Why do they release a game when they know it will not do the job? Some of the developper might have kids ... let them try the game before release ... they would probably not play long on MO.
When there is sooooo much that is going wrong with said game, I just find it funny that you point out things that are meaningless and easily overlooked. God forbid you actually run into a *real* bug with it.
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Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
All i can say about MO is that I did not play more than 30 mins. I was really sad when i started to play bacause i though the game concept and system was worth the cost but as a mmo player i think i deserve more than nice skies and nice weather animation to play a game. The game is broken, when you use your axe to get some lumber it is always the same animation... they didnt even take the time to make different movements. when you kill a dangerous beast like a squirel, it dies flat on the ground ... no falling animation, just teleported on the ground with the same blood patch for all the squirel corpses. Why do they release a game when they know it will not do the job? Some of the developper might have kids ... let them try the game before release ... they would probably not play long on MO.
When there is sooooo much that is going wrong with said game, I just find it funny that you point out things that are meaningless and easily overlooked. God forbid you actually run into a *real* bug with it.
Sorry to ruins your version of the reality but i think these things are bugs and if you are able to play this game, well do it ! youll be alone soon anyway. There are many other mmos that gives me the minimum requirement i deserve. If you buy a car it needs to run but it needs also some desing and some extras, same thing in a mmo, it needs to run but also some extras and some desing, wich we dont have here.
What is up with everyone relating MMOs to cars lately?
If you really want to go with that assumption, then the points you made are more like getting miffed over a stain on the upholstery when the engine won't start.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
you did understand my point, if you didnt, well go play solitaire, its complicated enough. MO was way under what we deserve and thats all im going to say.
Since Avi seems to be keeping DFO floating with very little cash I don't see any reason why SV can't.
DFO released in extremely bad shape too but they fixed it up, I don't see why MO can't do the same.
Understand we're totally speculating here, you should remember that that AV limited the number of accounts it was willing to sell. The demand was grossly beyond what AV wanted to meet. You almost make it sound like they had a plan. Somehow that plan included people camping the online store and 5 hour queues to log in. None of us have hard numbers but having been on the DFO server at release and the MO server at release there is like no comparison what-so-ever to the number of players. DFO's virtual world is conservatively 10x greater (probably more than that) than MO's world and it was PACKED. That doesn't seem to be the current consensus
The point I'm making is AV appears to have had a much larger influx of capital to work with than SV and 40% or more did NOT cancel after the 30-days of DFO like appears to be happening in MO. AV also had a larger debt (8 years in development)
-CC
I'm not trying to trash Darkfall, I'm just saying Loke666's point stands.
you did understand my point, if you didnt, well go play solitaire, its complicated enough. MO was way under what we deserve and thats all im going to say.
Variety in chopping animation and detailed animation for dying is what floats your boat?
No there are only the 1st things i have encountered when i started to play ... but they are more ... i can make a list but the post might not have enough character for me to list em all . anyway if they fail to make basic animations i dont want to see combats.
No there are only the 1st things i have encountered when i started to play ... but they are more ... i can make a list but the post might not have enough character for me to list em all . anyway if they fail to make basic animations i dont want to see combats.
We got it. You dont like the game in this state, like many others, but still i dont see game dieing any soon. Ive seen games surviving with extremly low population (Vanguard, Asherons call and some others).
I recommend you for next time, use your brain and inform yourself about the state of the game in forum.
I think there wasnt a week without a thread where the state of game was described.
you did understand my point, if you didnt, well go play solitaire, its complicated enough. MO was way under what we deserve and thats all im going to say.
When you say what "We Deserve". Deserve it a game, you do not any rights in telling anyone in what we deserve. Game are a product, and if you like what their selling you buy. Deserve, lol.
Originally posted by sulthar I suggest you read all the post before you whine... i WISH it last less than one month but i know it will last at least 6 month. So please dont overextend yourself if you dont event follow your own rules. jumping in a dicussion that has 3-4 pages and only read the last post might put you in a stupid position. And about informing myself about the stateof the game in the forum i think PLAYING the game might be a better source of information.
Originally posted by sulthar
All i can say about MO is that I did not play more than 30 mins. I was really sad when i started to play bacause i though the game concept and system was worth the cost but as a mmo player i think i deserve more than nice skies and nice weather animation to play a game. The game is broken, when you use your axe to get some lumber it is always the same animation... they didnt even take the time to make different movements. when you kill a dangerous beast like a squirel, it dies flat on the ground ... no falling animation, just teleported on the ground with the same blood patch for all the squirel corpses. Why do they release a game when they know it will not do the job? Some of the developper might have kids ... let them try the game before release ... they would probably not play long on MO.
I think we (the MMO player community) deserve more than this game. It sickens me to see that devs just dont care about us even if they make games for us.
For the pool i wish it was less than 1 month but i know some sheeps will continue to pay the sub wishing it gets better so i think i t will last about a year.
Well, since you suggest reading all the post[s] before commenting let's go back to your original post in the thread. You say you played for 30 minutes and specifically criticize the lack of variety in the chopping animation and the lack of detail in the death animation. To me, that sounds like the criticism of someone who chopped a tree, killed a couple rabbits or weasels (since I don't think there are any squirrels), then decided the game was not your cup of tea. Thirty minutes may be plenty of time to decide YOU don't like a game, but not enough time to be well-informed about the state of the game.
If you don't participate in MO, why do you wish it lasts less than a month, or even care about it's continued existence. Does it's continued existence in some way offend your sensibilities, are you somehow compelled to keep looking at it, or are you somehow unable to avoid all the advertisements? If you really don't want to see it, don't look.
P.S. If you really want to have an honest discussion, its best to not use the term "sheep" to refer to the people you disagree with.
Originally posted by sulthar I suggest you read all the post before you whine... i WISH it last less than one month but i know it will last at least 6 month. So please dont overextend yourself if you dont event follow your own rules. jumping in a dicussion that has 3-4 pages and only read the last post might put you in a stupid position. And about informing myself about the stateof the game in the forum i think PLAYING the game might be a better source of information.
Originally posted by sulthar
All i can say about MO is that I did not play more than 30 mins. I was really sad when i started to play bacause i though the game concept and system was worth the cost but as a mmo player i think i deserve more than nice skies and nice weather animation to play a game. The game is broken, when you use your axe to get some lumber it is always the same animation... they didnt even take the time to make different movements. when you kill a dangerous beast like a squirel, it dies flat on the ground ... no falling animation, just teleported on the ground with the same blood patch for all the squirel corpses. Why do they release a game when they know it will not do the job? Some of the developper might have kids ... let them try the game before release ... they would probably not play long on MO.
I think we (the MMO player community) deserve more than this game. It sickens me to see that devs just dont care about us even if they make games for us.
For the pool i wish it was less than 1 month but i know some sheeps will continue to pay the sub wishing it gets better so i think i t will last about a year.
Well, since you suggest reading all the post[s] before commenting let's go back to your original post in the thread. You say you played for 30 minutes and specifically criticize the lack of variety in the chopping animation and the lack of detail in the death animation. To me, that sounds like the criticism of someone who chopped a tree, killed a couple rabbits or weasels (since I don't think there are any squirrels), then decided the game was not your cup of tea. Thirty minutes may be plenty of time to decide YOU don't like a game, but not enough time to be well-informed about the state of the game.
If you don't participate in MO, why do you wish it lasts less than a month, or even care about it's continued existence. Does it's continued existence in some way offend your sensibilities, are you somehow compelled to keep looking at it, or are you somehow unable to avoid all the advertisements? If you really don't want to see it, don't look.
P.S. If you really want to have an honest discussion, its best to not use the term "sheep" to refer to the people you disagree with.
He is probably pissed because they made a lot of statements about what they were going to do, charged a lot of money, and gave us a shit game that doesnt even run properly.
Comments
The kids can take their own tools to a real, literal sandbox, but gamers cannot take their own tools to a video game sandbox can they? You get what is provided for you, and the argument from my point of view is that MO doesn't provide much in the way of sand. When we're talking about a sandbox MMO, surely the "sand" is the world itself? It's where all player interaction, both PvP and PvE takes place, it provides the context and motivation for player interaction. When two guilds wage war on each other, it's to make some kind of impact on the MMO world such as territory control and to somehow advance the success of their avatar within the game.
From the open beta, I found MO's world to be very lifeless and static simply because there isn't anything to play around with. The open world is empty with just some respawning wildlife and res nodes in it, the NPC cities are just empty buildings with some vending machines in them. You can point to MO being PvP-orientated, but without a fleshed-out, living, breathing world to provide motivation for such activities, it becomes PvP for the sake of PvP. The world is little more than a giant arena for players to bash each other over the head in. That isn't sandbox as far as I'm concerned, any more than UT3 is. Ultimately, a guild could conquer the world in MO, but ultimately the world doesn't care, it just carries on, unchanged and uncaring.
While I'm playing UT3 I can use my imagination and pretend to be a legend in the bloodsport arena, but I wouldn't call it sandbox just because of that.
Sandbox games like Dwarf Fortress, GTA4 and the like are "good" in my opinion because they provide the player with tonnes of content for them to go nuts in and play around with. When playing I'm constantly thinking "I wonder what happens if I do this..." and that is why it's so fun. MO on the other hand goes the other way and gives the player nothing to mess around with, just a crafting system and FFA PvP combat, both of which are in other MMOs anyway.
Reading by the MO forums I would say it will shut down very soon. Even the die hard fans are losing patience and are pissed.
Ya know, I think it'll last a while, just look at Warhammer...
I'm free on Friday.
This. Or check Asherons call. How old is that game and how small is the playerbase? Yet it is still there and you are able to play it. As long it gives at least 0.0001% profit it will be alive :P
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Since Avi seems to be keeping DFO floating with very little cash I don't see any reason why SV can't.
DFO released in extremely bad shape too but they fixed it up, I don't see why MO can't do the same.
Understand we're totally speculating here, you should remember that that AV limited the number of accounts it was willing to sell. The demand was grossly beyond what AV wanted to meet. None of us have hard numbers but having been on the DFO server at release and the MO server at release there is like no comparison what-so-ever to the number of players. DFO's virtual world is conservatively 10x greater (probably more than that) than MO's world and it was PACKED. MO is hardly packed.
The point I'm making is AV appears to have had a much larger influx of capital to work with than SV and 40% or more did NOT cancel after the 30-days of DFO like appears to be happening in MO.
-CC
"Lately it occurs to me,
what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
Considering the only thing to do is PvP, and considering
View Poll Results: Are you happy with the current PVP system/balance?
This poll will close on 11th August 2010 at 16:39
Yes the combat is perfect dont change anything.
1
1.64%
Somewhat, the combat could use a small tweak.
19
31.15%
Not really, it needs some work.
31
50.82%
No its horrible (insert reason).
10
16.39%
Voters: 61. You have already voted on this poll
One person likes combat, I would say not long.
Mortal Online is a piss poor sandbox just as much as Darkfall is a pvp game and not a sandbox. UO and SWG were the only two really good sandboxes that I can remember, with uo, imo, being the better of the two in every way except crafting/gathering. Look to the worst themepark mmo and tell me that people who like themeparks won't crush it into dust. Bottom line is that MO is in late alpha stage and its looking pretty raw, unfinished, and unprofessional.
No, it is more Gamma stage then Alpha stage right now.
Difference is, while MO dont mind being niche, DF always wished to get high amount of player base. DF spent more years and more money during development plus the army money. MO lack money, but i dont think they got dept problem like DF have.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
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That long....
Pepsi1028
PEPSI!!!!!
Get out of your box already...
All i can say about MO is that I did not play more than 30 mins. I was really sad when i started to play bacause i though the game concept and system was worth the cost but as a mmo player i think i deserve more than nice skies and nice weather animation to play a game. The game is broken, when you use your axe to get some lumber it is always the same animation... they didnt even take the time to make different movements. when you kill a dangerous beast like a squirel, it dies flat on the ground ... no falling animation, just teleported on the ground with the same blood patch for all the squirel corpses. Why do they release a game when they know it will not do the job? Some of the developper might have kids ... let them try the game before release ... they would probably not play long on MO.
I think we (the MMO player community) deserve more than this game. It sickens me to see that devs just dont care about us even if they make games for us.
For the pool i wish it was less than 1 month but i know some sheeps will continue to pay the sub wishing it gets better so i think i t will last about a year.
Two months in what can only be described as life support quality before the game shuts down. There will be a patch and multiple hotfixes which will not be able to solve any of the problems that currently plague Mortal Online. There are some of the fans who are willing to look past the problems but the number of them is getting fewer and fewer.
MO and Darkfall are examples of how a game needs to get its most basic functions down first, then go on to try and do all these different things. If the Mortal Online gameplay was really, really fun then I'd probably be playing right now. Just, that wasn't the case. Literally ALL of the resources should have gone into creating a decent feeling when you swing weapons, etc. Don't worry so much about book skills and all this nonsensical garbage.
Same with DF. The game feels terrible to someone who plays any decent video games. Everything is just not good. It's really no wonder that only the MMO following crowd ever hears of these games in the first place.
When there is sooooo much that is going wrong with said game, I just find it funny that you point out things that are meaningless and easily overlooked. God forbid you actually run into a *real* bug with it.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Sorry to ruins your version of the reality but i think these things are bugs and if you are able to play this game, well do it ! youll be alone soon anyway. There are many other mmos that gives me the minimum requirement i deserve. If you buy a car it needs to run but it needs also some desing and some extras, same thing in a mmo, it needs to run but also some extras and some desing, wich we dont have here.
What is up with everyone relating MMOs to cars lately?
If you really want to go with that assumption, then the points you made are more like getting miffed over a stain on the upholstery when the engine won't start.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
whatever floats your boat man !
you did understand my point, if you didnt, well go play solitaire, its complicated enough. MO was way under what we deserve and thats all im going to say.
Variety in chopping animation and detailed animation for dying is what floats your boat?
No there are only the 1st things i have encountered when i started to play ... but they are more ... i can make a list but the post might not have enough character for me to list em all . anyway if they fail to make basic animations i dont want to see combats.
We got it. You dont like the game in this state, like many others, but still i dont see game dieing any soon. Ive seen games surviving with extremly low population (Vanguard, Asherons call and some others).
I recommend you for next time, use your brain and inform yourself about the state of the game in forum.
I think there wasnt a week without a thread where the state of game was described.
Hype is for lemmings :-/
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When you say what "We Deserve". Deserve it a game, you do not any rights in telling anyone in what we deserve. Game are a product, and if you like what their selling you buy. Deserve, lol.
Well, since you suggest reading all the post[s] before commenting let's go back to your original post in the thread. You say you played for 30 minutes and specifically criticize the lack of variety in the chopping animation and the lack of detail in the death animation. To me, that sounds like the criticism of someone who chopped a tree, killed a couple rabbits or weasels (since I don't think there are any squirrels), then decided the game was not your cup of tea. Thirty minutes may be plenty of time to decide YOU don't like a game, but not enough time to be well-informed about the state of the game.
If you don't participate in MO, why do you wish it lasts less than a month, or even care about it's continued existence. Does it's continued existence in some way offend your sensibilities, are you somehow compelled to keep looking at it, or are you somehow unable to avoid all the advertisements? If you really don't want to see it, don't look.
P.S. If you really want to have an honest discussion, its best to not use the term "sheep" to refer to the people you disagree with.
He is probably pissed because they made a lot of statements about what they were going to do, charged a lot of money, and gave us a shit game that doesnt even run properly.
Not soon enough..
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