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How are the controls in this game?

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Comments

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    The controls do not make it FF.  The storylines, characters, etc do.  So yeah, guess why they used such settings, etc?  After all, it is a FF MMO.

     

    It has absolutely nothing to do with loyalty to existing FF XI customers.  Its simply FF and following the theme.

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Member RarePosts: 3,655

    Originally posted by grapevine

    The controls do not make it FF.  The storylines, characters, etc do.  So yeah, guess why they used them?  After all, it is a FF MMO.

    Agreed, however the people who are making 14 are by and large the same people who 11, mostly the same developer team, not just the same company.  When a development team is comfortrable with a way that something functions to the point where they think its perfected they dont' change it, they don't think its broken.

    If you really have a problem with it keep sending emails to S-E and hope for the best, my only point is that when you look at 14 there is A LOT of 11 in it, with good reason.

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    I think you will find they have enough feed back from a huge amount of people, to know they need to change it.    If they don't listen, then this is one overhyped flop.

     

    XIV is surposed to be improving upon XI, not just pushing the same game with better graphics.  Its called progession.

  • linksalulinksalu Member Posts: 38

    Originally posted by Allizar

    That's pretty much the impression I got as well =/

    start at page 92

    http://www.fohguild.org/forums/mmorpg-general-discussion/39028-final-fantasy-xiv-92.html

     

    Tons of other threads I've come across and everyone pretty much feels the same way except the FFXI fanbois

    I just read through from page 92 until the end, and definitely agree that this is the most accurate assessment of the game so far. Granted, the game just got out of alpha, so I'm hoping SE takes note and starts addressing these issues.

    Originally posted by geldonyetich

    Wow, I knew you guys were pretty desparate to slam the game, but hacking the web page of a major game site so a user review masquarades as an official one? Pretty impressive.

    [Edit: no, after seeing there's an actual video associated with it, I guess not, despite the wierd way GameSpot distributes its content making it looks like the reviewer didn't even write this.]

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Member RarePosts: 3,655

    Originally posted by grapevine

    I think you will find they have enough feed back from a huge amount of people, to know they need to change it.    If they don't listen, then this is one overhyped flop.

    If you personally don't like it I respect that opinion but personally I just don't see it.  This game will capture a vast majority of FFXI players both current and old ones, as well as find new players both from their PS3 release and from MMOers looking for something different. 

    Again what is a flop to you may be a sweeping success to them, I'm going to estimate around at 400k - 500k sub base after the first year.  I'm sorry you don't like the controls, I'm sorry to anyone who doesn't, I used to not like click to move games until I gave a few a chance and now I realize that any control scheme can be appropriate for a game if its implimented properly.  Don't give up just after trying it for a little, let yourself get used to them and accustomed to them, if you give games a chance you just might have fun.

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    LOL, sorry but [that is just a response] defending an extremely poor design, by a company they have w*t dreams over.  One that is easily fixed.

     

    All they have to do is add an option to have industry standard controls (in addition), and they've have way more customers.  It would also still be FF.

     

    [Mod Edit]

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Member RarePosts: 3,655

    Originally posted by grapevine

     They've already stated they're going to have ASWD and mouse, I'm not sure what you are complaining about at this point any way...   Most people are upset over the camera movement with the mouse isn't what they expect from other games, its more like how you move it in FFXI.  This is what I thought you were talking about.

     

    [Mod Edit]

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    You are bascially saying keep only those controls options and screw the huge increase in subscriptions they could see.

     

    [Mod Edit]

  • RaymikaRaymika Member UncommonPosts: 18

    Trying again:

    Any current betatester please respond to me in this topic, or private.

    In the most recent beta, the controlls are the same as before?

     

    Why am i asking?

    Becasue if the controlls are the same, won't bother to download the beta client.

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Member RarePosts: 3,655

    Originally posted by grapevine

    You are bascially saying keep only those controls options and screw the huge increase in subscriptions they could see.

    #1. They had ASWD + Mouse in FFXI

    #2. I'm not saying they shouldn't try to get new customers I'm saying their FOCUS is retaining old ones.

    #3. They've already confirmed they have ASWD + Mouse in 14.  Its even on wikipedia. The producer confirmed that a while ago. 

    http://www.eorzeapedia.com/2009/08/21/famitsu-interview-with-hiromichi-tanaka/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XIV.

    Here are two links that both mention Keyboard and Mouse use.

    Hope that helps!

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    ASWD+mouse implemented in their way.  Not the industry standard.

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Member RarePosts: 3,655

    Originally posted by grapevine

    ASWD+mouse implemented in their way.  Not the industry standard.

    Define what you mean by that?

    A is left W is up S is back and D is right.   What is different?

    Edit:  I mean they added in a hot bar and you can now click it for actions.

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    You know full well I can't, without breaking NDA.

     

    However, look a few posts up.  Even those beta testing, aren't bothering.

     

    *EDIT:  A hot bar, has nothing to do with movement controls.

  • EdliEdli Member Posts: 941

    Originally posted by Laughing-man

    Originally posted by grapevine

    ASWD+mouse implemented in their way.  Not the industry standard.

    Define what you mean by that?

    A is left W is up S is back and D is right.   What is different?

     

    Mouse moving the camera? right clicking npc to interact, keybinding for quest log, inventory ect. Getting rid of the pointless over usage of the window to interact with things. It doesn't have a place in a pc game. In a console its fine but not in a pc. 

  • AericynAericyn Member UncommonPosts: 394

    Originally posted by Hyanmen

    ...

    Tbh I think most of the feedback given so far is pretty damn good, much more quality stuff than I would expect. 

    Sure this game needs work, but at least the testers are doing a nice job so far. Now it's up to the dev team to show their competence.

    Thanks for your posts Hyanmen, you have some good insight and constructive responses on this game. I hope the dev folks take it to heart.

    I was over on Core and considering the silly backlash I might receive about having 0 posts as others did. I did not respond on the “Awful controls” thread there.



    I am quite surprised that so many are defending such a restrictive control scheme using various points of defense. Based on PS3, Controller, etc…

     

    I just might be able to get over the poor controls given enough struggle. My wife however will not go through relearning another way to play, thus killing FF14 for me. :p Why do I need to struggle in the first place? How can a company like Square be so hardheaded about something like industry standard controls? Sure, if they had a new innovative method of controlling your PC in a 3D environment that was actually better, I would learn it. Trouble is FF11 like controls are terrible, truly terrible for an experienced PC gamer to get into.

    For those who comment:

    - don’t like it don’t play

    - use a controller

    - learn Square’s controls they aren’t bad once you learn them

    These are the most common replies I notice.

    The “don’t like it don’t play” is awful to me, aside from being non-inclusive. I really enjoy Final Fantasy titles they are full of magic and very cool ideas. I play games these days to relax, explore, and participate in a community. FF11 made me struggle to remember how to turn left and right while seeing where I was going. Totally kills the rest of the reasons I enjoy games. Controlling my character and interacting in the world should be seamless, invisible to the MMO experience. Not a primary type of gameplay. This isn’t Street Fighter or Modern Warfare, and I don’t want it to be.

    I want to play FF14.

    Use a controller, there is nothing inclusive about this statement. Unless maybe you are 12-16… which perhaps many of these folks are. I play console games on my console. Wife hates console controls and knows Kb/M. Using a controller excludes her, which does the same to me since we play online games as a way to spend time together.

    Learning Square's controls is a very lazy solution by Square. I would guess 80-90% of PC gamers are very familiar with Kb/M controls going all the way back to Doom. Shouldn’t Square appeal the widest audience and not alienate them to receive praise from a minor and frankly elitist subset of players?

    Did no one on Squares UX team play another MMO besides FF11? You have to know what your competitors are doing in order to compete.

    Coming up on 500 words so I will cut it, and close. Mainly – provide options for all kinds of players don’t throw everyone into the same size box and say if you don’t fit, too bad quit. Give me controller and solid Kb/M options.

    MMO’s are about being inclusive, inviting people to become part of a community. Being narrow and stubborn about control options is an exclusive mentality. Maybe they don’t care, perhaps Square cannot see past their Tokyo streetlights and those who want to enjoy their games through a familiar experience are simply left in the dark.

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Member RarePosts: 3,655

    Originally posted by grapevine

    You know full well I can't, without breaking NDA.

     

    However, look a few posts up.  Even those beta testing, aren't bothering.

    My point is that if you are complaining about FFXI's controls what about them was not the same as the "industry standard" when you set it to ASWD? 

     

    edit: I never understood what problem people had with FFXI when it was set to compact keyboard which set it to ASWD, now that they added in a hot bar so you can click it for abilities the game seems pretty much "industry standard."

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    (duplicate)

  • RyukanRyukan Member UncommonPosts: 858

    Frankly if they don't add support for MMO standard controls with mouse+keyboard then I will avoid this game like the plague. The fact that you can't jump, however insignificant it seems already turns me off the prinicple of not adding something so simple and commonplace to MMO's and games in general is annoying and distasteful. If they add to that by sticking with the unintuitive and teeth -grindingly frustrating control scheme of FFXI then I have to question their design philosphies. The FFXI controls were one setp away from the pathetic, outdated idiocy of point and click only movement which seems to be really popular among Asian developers.

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    Originally posted by Laughing-man

    Originally posted by grapevine

    You know full well I can't, without breaking NDA.

     

    However, look a few posts up.  Even those beta testing, aren't bothering.

    My point is that if you are complaining about FFXI's controls what about them was not the same as the "industry standard" when you set it to ASWD? 

     

    edit: I never understood what problem people had with FFXI when it was set to compact keyboard which set it to ASWD, now that they added in a hot bar so you can click it for abilities the game seems pretty much "industry standard."

     

    For one its not just me, its the majority.  Second, as I said I can't discuss the indepth mechanics without breaking the NDA.  I'm also assuming you know exactly what the industry standard controls are, and also fully aware FF doesn't use them.

     

    What I have discussed so far, is simply a reflection of the posts flooding various MMO boards at the moment.

  • leroysgleroysg Member UncommonPosts: 97

    this game is designed by Japanese and they prefer console over pc games. in short to say, in very beginning in development stage, they made it for in favor to console rather than pc players. in japan, console players are countless over pc players.

    so count ourself lucky they made a pc version out of it (leaving the control setup at it is) and  again target to NA market as well. no need further posting why not this, why not that...just take it or leave it. simple as that. i fully agreed with all those asking "why not kb+mse control".

    well again coz it Jap made & for their own folks back in country.

    period....

  • AllizarAllizar Member Posts: 54

    Originally posted by leroysg

    this game is designed by Japanese and they prefer console over pc games. in short to say, in very beginning in development stage, they made it for in favor to console rather than pc players. in japan, console players are countless over pc players.

    so count ourself lucky they made a pc version out of it (leaving the control setup at it is) and  again target to NA market as well. no need further posting why not this, why not that...just take it or leave it. simple as that. i fully agreed with all those asking "why not kb+mse control".

    well again coz it Jap made & for their own folks back in country.

    period....

    The games may be created in Japan, but make no mistake that the western market is the main cash cow. Players have spoken and complained about this issue all over anything that resembles a FFXIV themed board and SE would have to be blind not to notice. What they do about it will speak for how SE listens to it's customers.

     

    Infinite Undiscovery

    Total: 440,000 units

    Region Breakdown: Japan – 120,000 units; North America – 200,000 units; Europe – 100,000 units; Asia – 20,000 units

    The Last Remnant

    Total: 580,000 units

    Region Breakdown: Japan – 160,000 units; North America – 220,000 units; Europe – 180,000 units; Asia – 20,000 units

    Star Ocean: The Last Hope

    Total: 420,000 units

    Region Breakdown: Japan – 200,000 units; North America – 200,000 units; Asia – 20,000 units

     


    Weekly sales history for Final Fantasy XI: Wings of the Goddess (PS2)

     


     

     

     

     

     

     

    Totals:

    Americas 143,626

    Japan 94,797

    0

    Worldwide 238,423

     

     

    Get off it about SE not being a PC gaming company or not being marketed for the US, because they are creating a PC game for the western market, and we as customers expect basic controls on par with our current standards.

     

    Imagine where they would be now if they would have released Final Fantasy 3 with controls that made you move left when you wanted to go right and right when you wanted to go up. Sure you can adapt, but you would probably just give up and wonder wtf they were thinking. That's how a lot of people feel now.

  • KhrymsonKhrymson Member UncommonPosts: 3,090

    Originally posted by grapevine

     

     

    I'm not offended, nor do I need help to "understanding" anything.

     

    You are completley deluded though, if you think they are just trying to make a new game for loyal FF XI customers.  They are promoting this as a casual friendly MMO for the mass market.  They are a business, and as such want to make as much profit as possible.  Not keep that profit low, simply because they have a niche crowd.

     

    They only thing they are staying loyal to is the FF storylines, etc.

     

    Apparently you do need "understanding" and are the one that is deluded...hehe

     

    ZAM: Well, we can agree companies make games that are different from one another. I was just curious as to why FFXIV is so very, very similar. Most companies, when they make additional MMOs, they try to change their focus so that they don't take their existing consumer base away from a game that's already established. I guess the question is, aside from the obvious "the same talent behind the game," aspect, why was the decision made to make FFXIV so similar to FFXI?



    Tanaka: FFXI has been out for about eight years now; the graphical engine we used is very old. In that sense, we wanted to have something that the FFXI players can smoothly move on to. So yes, in that sense, it could be very similar to Final Fantasy XI, so it's easier to switch for them. Also, for the race, that's something that we did on purpose to make it very similar to FFXI so that it's easier for people to go from FFXI to come to FFXIV, so that's why I feel it's very similar. As you mentioned earlier, maybe other companies make totally different MMOs to not get users from their original MMOs, but in this, I think we have a different policy or something in that sense. We are providing FFXIV for the FFXI community - as another game they can enjoy, so that's the primary target. Also, we want Final Fantasy players to enjoy the game who haven't played MMOs before, and we also want MMO players who haven't played the Final Fantasy series. We are trying to reach several different targets, but the first one will be FFXI players.

  • AllizarAllizar Member Posts: 54

    Originally posted by Khrymson

    Originally posted by grapevine


     
    and we also want MMO players who haven't played the Final Fantasy series. We are trying to reach several different targets, but the first one will be FFXI players.

    I could understand the arguments against providing alternate controls if it was an A or B choice. It's not. There is absolutely no reason to not provide alternative control and UI schemes to satisfy a wide variety of players. I have no idea what the fanbois are trying to accomplish or prove here. It's not even hard to implement.

  • KhrymsonKhrymson Member UncommonPosts: 3,090

    Originally posted by Allizar

    Originally posted by Khrymson


    Originally posted by grapevine


     
    and we also want MMO players who haven't played the Final Fantasy series. We are trying to reach several different targets, but the first one will be FFXI players.

    I could understand the arguments against providing alternate controls if it was an A or B choice. It's not. There is absolutely no reason to not provide alternative control and UI schemes to satisfy a wide variety of players. I have no idea what the fanbois are trying to accomplish or prove here. It's not even hard to implement.

     

    Notice that in the part you quoted "We are trying" which basically says they're trying to add another control scheme, but doesn't mean they will succeed, thus the primary target is making sure the controls are there for us FFXI veterans first.  And if ya can't stand the KB only controls and the WASD+Mouse doesn't function to your absurd industry standards which is a joke, cause only a handful of MMO do this scheme well. 

    There is always using a controller, and the excuse this is a PC game and must have WASD+Mouse is also neglegable, do tell us what other MMO besides FFXI you can play on console too....thats right; none! 

  • itchmonitchmon Member RarePosts: 1,999

    SqEnix would have to be completely daft to alienate many people due to their controls.  I played FFXI and my reason for leaving was NOT because of the controls (simply, a lot of friends from RL moved on to WoW).  But as many have mentioned this was before the industry standard was really set in stone.  If people can interact more seamlessly with the FF world by using a superb KB-M interface then they shoujld have it, by god.  It won't make the game 'not FF" if you give it decent controls, it'll make it an FF game with western controls.

     

    I have been wondering lately whether the great company of Sqenix was slipping lately because of their run of (mostly) poo single player stuff. (IE the last remnant which was flat out godawful).  Wondering what could cause it.  At first i called it a "stubborn refusal to adapt" to the progression of the RPG genre.  However i think an even better word for this phenomenon of adamant refusal to react to changing player memes would be "arrogance".  It's plain arrogance to simply refuse to update the controls.... but yet i have faith that, in the end, common sense will stick its head into this argument and FF will be launched with mouselook, etc intact.  Because SqE wants to make money, and the more control schemes they will add, the more money they will make.

     

    Personally, I LOVE the final fantasy series, ff1 was my first RPG and ff13 is the one i'm playing now (and it's a hell of a lot better than The Last remnant, hehehe)  FF7 to me marks the video game's emergance as art.  I want NOTHING MORE than to logon to my wow account, post a mail to my guild that they can find me in eorzea (well, eorzea and new eden :) ), and /deletewowaccount.  I want to drown in the lore and immersion that the FF titles bring.

     

    I want to do that while mouselooking is all :P

     

    ty for reading

     

    Itch

    RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

    Currently Playing EVE, ESO

    Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.

    Dwight D Eisenhower

    My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.

    Henry Rollins

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