This is the same as saying is MacDonalds the best becasue loads of people eat their crap?
Thats the argument most WoW players use yes
I dont play WoW
Id rather be sick through my nose than play WoW
Only problem is the McDonals analaogy doesnt hold up, at least nto how the haters want to spin it. McDonalds is the best at what they do, fast food. Do other people prefer other fast food? Sure they do but McDonalds gets a bulk of the business and thus puts out a better fast food product. But most of you want to open up the analogy to include all food , even the greatest food from 4 or 5 star restaraunts that people are willing to pay alot more for. Well of course McDonalds isnt better than those restaraunts, its comparing apples to oranges.
In MMORPG's WoW is king, no one is even remotely close to touching them money wise. Are there other games out there people prefer? Sure, everyone has different tastes but most people prefer to play WoW in that given genre. You hear that? In its given genre, which is MMORPG's ... no one even comes close to touching them. In fact people pay more for WoW than other MMORPG's offering the same type game.
So yes, McDonalds and WoW are teh best at what they do in there respective areas. Although I wont touch McDonalds food anymore and I would also rather play an MMORPG that is closer to a RL sim. However, I cant deny the facts ...maybe alot and I mean ALOT of other people can ignore the facts and make up dumb analogies but Im not one of them.
No. Everything you can do in wow is average at max and done better in other games. What wow has is tons of money for marketing, that's where it glances.
But most of you want to open up the analogy to include all food , even the greatest food from 4 or 5 star restaraunts that people are willing to pay alot more for. Well of course McDonalds isnt better than those restaraunts, its comparing apples to oranges.
So, people buy alot becouse its easy to acces, while theres more delicious dishes that is harder to get.
What makes me a bit angry is that every game tries to make a game like wow to get players, they should jsut forget that, there wont be any other mmo with that playerbase again.
No. Everything you can do in wow is average at max and done better in other games. What wow has is tons of money for marketing, that's where it glances.
Excuse me?
Please, by all means, list all of the games that do things better than WoW. You may be able to compile a list of games that have ONE or maybe TWO features that, IN YOUR OPINION, are better than what Blizzard has done, but not a single one of them.... and that bears repeating... NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM, comes close to WoW's overall polish and features.
WoW brought plenty new to the genre. So much so it couldn't be cloned if it wasn't true. Even Guild Wars 2 is going to copy the pet mechanic from the hunters. SWG had it before WoW, wow copied it of SWG.
But when you lead the genre and you define the genre, and you pretty much are the guy to beat in the genre. You are the technically the best. The other companies want to beat you becouse of the playerbase numbers, not becouse of the game. There shouldnt be any game to define a genre, that will only make it stale and there wont be anything new, like we see now, everyone tries to copy wow, but the thing is noone wants to play another wow.
Just look at Warhemmer, instead of trying to make a game based on DaoC, they based it on WoW, completly forgeting what made DaoC so great, and failed.
There's games you like better. There's game I like better. Honestly my favorite MMOs are Shadowbane and City of Heroes/Villains because each offered (in quite different ways) a bit more freedom than you get from traditional MMOs
I'm not going to pretend WoW wasn't a well crafted game that did bring a lot of new things to the genre, and it'll continue to influence the design and creation of all sorts of games for generations to come. There's nothing wrong with it, and taking a stance like 'wow sux cuz i didn't like it' is.. I can't even think of the proper word to use to establish how little intelligence it takes to do such a thing.
More namecalling, its not really from wow their taking stuff, its mostly from EQ, and some from DaoC. BUt as i said before i rather want developers to make something new instead of trying to make another wow, but since MMOs is so much about money and less about the players nowadays, we will see more and more wow clones.
WoW is the best MMORPG on the market now. It's been the best for 5+ years now. For a lot of reasons. We can all pick features we don't like. Or ones we'd like to see added. That doesn't detract from the game what success it built up and what innovation it brought.
Numbers doesnt make a MMO the best, i doubt everyone would say its been the best for 5 years, we have games like EVE with a very loyal playerbase, and theres other games. WoW didnt really bring any innovation, they copied everything from the presecesors and piled up on it. Still today there really arent anything new in WoW that havent been in any other MMO, they even copied Warhammers achievements.
Its still a good game and its not hard to see why it has so many players, but beeing "new" and "model for every other game" and "innovative" thats just laughable.
People are just tired of it because it's been the best for so long. So they either stop playing or go into some odd bit of denial.
There's other good MMOs out there thankfully. But if anyone ever asks.. "What's the best MMO?" World of Warcraft will always be the example. We're a decade away from that changing.
Why is it the best you ask?
Ask someone who sneezed if they would like a facial tissue. They'll look at you like you just said every racial slur ever created. Now ask someone who just sneezed if they'd like a Kleenex, but really hand them a Puffs facial tissue. They'll say 'oh why thank you'.
Is Kleenex the best facial tissue? Yes. Why?
If I have to explain it to you, then you need to go back to school and get an education.
So I guess that makes EverQuest the other best MMORPG ever, because, before WoW, that was the most mainstream MMO, despite the fact that it was only 200k subs higher than its competition.
So there's the golden answer folks, WoW is the best MMORPG because it has the biggest marketing budget. Whats sad is some posters probably believe this. Why should the marker be "if people who don't play MMORPGs know about it, then it must be good"? Shouldn't that indicate when something ISN'T good?
"People are just tired of it because it's been the best for so long. So they either stop playing or go into some odd bit of denial." Really? And what about us that didn't like it from the start? I guess we just don't exist.
Until WoW can even reach half the number of features that older games like Dark Age of Camelot had, it will not be the best MMORPG.
You're a fucking idiot.
DAOC was just like WoW. It is the EQ1 v 2.0 because it added a faction pvp system and xp ginding via quests.
Actually DAoC was the first MMO to have a complete crafting system, it had all the PvE content of EverQuest in terms of dungeons and raids, and added RvR on top of that. And that was just at launch. You say this as if the factional 3 realm PvP system wasn't revolutionary. Naval combat, castle sieges with walls you can break down, boiling oil, battering rams, siege towers, trebuchets, massive 500 man battles, smaller battlegrounds, all brand new.
And no, quests were not the primary way to level up. DAoC was the first game to have a quest journal, but that's about it.
WoW improved upon that system.
DAOC had it's time but everyone I know that tried it, myself included said the same thing. "It's okay, but EQ has more content." Which is true. EQ felt bigger. Arguably, but what isn't?
From the perspective of one realm perhaps, but I played DAoC for 5 years and I still have only seen 1/6 of the content.
WoW became the best MMORPG without a marketting team. How many players were playing before there was a commercial on television or even a barrage of trial account ads on the internet? You don't know? Right, because you don't know. Like the other idiots here don't know.
Blizzard was an extremely well known company, probably the second most well known company on the PC. EVERYONE had heard about WoW before it came out, not just the MMORPG gamers, but the RTS players, the FPS player, the Diablo players, and the marketing team just kept on rolling.
WoW's the best MMORPG so far because it was the first one produced by a top notch game development company. Blizzard is the reason why millions played, friend access codes spread it, the ads came to give it further casual appeal. So, you're just saying what I've already said. WoW was the first game to have a huge marketing budget and a big name behind it. That doesn't make it the best, because WoW is lacking in so many features that were standard 8 years ago to make it the best of anything.
Check out the re-review of DAoC to see why it isn't a triple A title. Check out it's original reviews to see why it played.. Hell number 3 to EQ and even EVE back in the day. For it's time, it was far more than a AAA title. And it was the second most popular MMORPG at the time. Eve? Really? Eve was completely unknown to the vast majority of people and hardly had any subscribers. The number of things that dev team acomplished with so little dwarfs anything Blizzard has managed to do. In 2001, that stuff was a big deal. There were more features and content in WoW with that "non AAA company" than any recent MMORPGs with their big budgets have managed to churn out, and that includes Warhammer. So far it seems AAA just means, bigger marketing budget.
WoW is the best MMORPG in terms of both quality and subscribers number. I play WoW because I love the lore and storyline of the Warcraft universe. Sure, classic WoW and TBC's quests were not very good, but WoTLK improved that aspect a lot and Cataclysm will only make the lore even more epic. There is no other MMORPGs out there that, in my opinion, can match the depth and lore of WoW, the lone exception being maybe SWTOR.
WoW is the best MMORPG in terms of both quality and subscribers number. I play WoW because I love the lore and storyline of the Warcraft universe. Sure, classic WoW and TBC's quests were not very good, but WoTLK improved that aspect a lot and Cataclysm will only make the lore even more epic. There is no other MMORPGs out there that, in my opinion, can match the depth and lore of WoW, the lone exception being maybe SWTOR.
Well, since WoW does its best to hide its story by making its quests little more than go x do y run back, endless tasks that there are always more of, it doesn't facilitate good story telling.
And if you look at Warcraft lore in general, its almost entirely a rip off of Warhammer, and where it isn't, it's a rip off of other fantasy stories. Hell, they even tear into Arthurian legend without even changing the names. The Lord of the Rings lore is easily a lot deeper just by its nature, and many old MMORPGs were littered with story. Take Asheron's Call, monthly events by the devs that evolved the storyline and actually changed the game world. EverQuest had thousandsof years of backstory.
Once again, its something WoW does well, but has already been done better by someone else.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
WoW is the best MMORPG in terms of both quality and subscribers number. I play WoW because I love the lore and storyline of the Warcraft universe. Sure, classic WoW and TBC's quests were not very good, but WoTLK improved that aspect a lot and Cataclysm will only make the lore even more epic. There is no other MMORPGs out there that, in my opinion, can match the depth and lore of WoW, the lone exception being maybe SWTOR.
Take Asheron's Call, monthly events by the devs that evolved the storyline and actually changed the game world. EverQuest had thousandsof years of backstory.
This is exactly what WotLK did with the phasing technology to change the static game world and Cataclysm will make even more use of it.
If there is one thing you can count on around here at mmorpg.com, its the abundance of WOW-haters...
I don't care what any of you say, there is no other MMO that has as much content and as many features as well implemented as WoW does. You may claim that such and such game did x first, but none of them did it in a way that was as user friendly and polished as Blizzard did in WoW. Of course they borrowed elements from other games... that is what successful game designers do. They see what worked well in other games and they implement it in their own game minus the annoyances of the original system. WoW does this very well and millions of people enjoy it as a result.
I think most of the WoW hate round here comes from the fact that many of you just don't like themepark games. Being a long-time UO vet, I can fully understand this. However, I have never played a sandbox game that came anywhere even close to the amount of implemented features and polished content that WoW sports. There just aren't any. In fact, there aren't any MMOs PERIOD that can touch WoW in terms of amount of content or polish. Whether you like the game or not doesn't change that fact...
WoW brought plenty new to the genre. So much so it couldn't be cloned if it wasn't true. Even Guild Wars 2 is going to copy the pet mechanic from the hunters.
The fact of the matter is, WoW bashing and WoW praising doesn't change the fact that WoW is the biggest MMO to ever come. It sucks admitting something is the best on ANY weird criteria we can come up with. But when you lead the genre and you define the genre, and you pretty much are the guy to beat in the genre. You are the technically the best.
There's games you like better. There's game I like better. Honestly my favorite MMOs are Shadowbane and City of Heroes/Villains because each offered (in quite different ways) a bit more freedom than you get from traditional MMOs.
I'm not going to pretend WoW wasn't a well crafted game that did bring a lot of new things to the genre, and it'll continue to influence the design and creation of all sorts of games for generations to come. There's nothing wrong with it, and taking a stance like 'wow sux cuz i didn't like it' is.. I can't even think of the proper word to use to establish how little intelligence it takes to do such a thing.
WoW is the best MMORPG on the market now. It's been the best for 5+ years now. For a lot of reasons. We can all pick features we don't like. Or ones we'd like to see added. That doesn't detract from the game what success it built up and what innovation it brought.
Thread subject aside, let's be real, shall we?
GW2 isn't copying the pet mechanic from WoW, it already had it in GW. Obviously you never played it.
WoW is good in a number of things, even the best in several features but it's hardly the best in ANY weird criteria someone can come up with, that's crazy talk.
Neither is WoW known for grand innovation, it took what was out there already and polished it to a high degree. Sure, it has some innovative features like the phasing, but it's the polish and accessibility it's known for, not because it's a champion of innovation.
There are a number of causes why WoW is the most successful, and since this is a forum it's not strange to have enthusiastic opinion about it, but people should get their facts straight, else they sound like noobs.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
If there is one thing you can count on around here at mmorpg.com, its the abundance of WOW-haters...
I don't care what any of you say, there is no other MMO that has as much content and as many features as well implemented as WoW does. You may claim that such and such game did x first, but none of them did it in a way that was as user friendly and polished as Blizzard did in WoW. Of course they borrowed elements from other games... that is what successful game designers do. They see what worked well in other games and they implement it in their own game minus the annoyances of the original system. WoW does this very well and millions of people enjoy it as a result.
I think most of the WoW hate round here comes from the fact that many of you just don't like themepark games. Being a long-time UO vet, I can fully understand this. However, I have never played a sandbox game that came anywhere even close to the amount of implemented features and polished content that WoW sports. There just aren't any. In fact, there aren't any MMOs PERIOD that can touch WoW in terms of amount of content or polish. Whether you like the game or not doesn't change that fact...
Er... yeah. Regardless how many features WOW has, what it lacks or where it differs is what is important to people in determining what is the best MMORPG. I think EVE has WOW beat hands down in the areas that I care about.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If there is one thing you can count on around here at mmorpg.com, its the abundance of WOW-haters...
I don't care what any of you say, there is no other MMO that has as much content and as many features as well implemented as WoW does. You may claim that such and such game did x first, but none of them did it in a way that was as user friendly and polished as Blizzard did in WoW. Of course they borrowed elements from other games... that is what successful game designers do. They see what worked well in other games and they implement it in their own game minus the annoyances of the original system. WoW does this very well and millions of people enjoy it as a result.
I think most of the WoW hate round here comes from the fact that many of you just don't like themepark games. Being a long-time UO vet, I can fully understand this. However, I have never played a sandbox game that came anywhere even close to the amount of implemented features and polished content that WoW sports. There just aren't any. In fact, there aren't any MMOs PERIOD that can touch WoW in terms of amount of content or polish. Whether you like the game or not doesn't change that fact...
I can't speak for others, but what I really hate are the fanbois and haters and especially the really moronic arguments they tend to use that degenerates into half a flamewar what otherwise could have been a sensible discussion thread.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I can't speak for others, but what I really hate are the fanbois and haters and especially the really moronic arguments they tend to use that degenerates into half a flamewar what otherwise could have been a sensible discussion thread.
Then again, nothing new or unexpected to see.
Yeah, you know it is going to be the flame thread when you see the quote wars going on.
Quotes of the quote to the quote of the quote with nice different colors of text. Definately an indication that this discussion may be degenerating into an abyss of hype and gripe.
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
WoW is the best MMORPG in terms of both quality and subscribers number. I play WoW because I love the lore and storyline of the Warcraft universe. Sure, classic WoW and TBC's quests were not very good, but WoTLK improved that aspect a lot and Cataclysm will only make the lore even more epic. There is no other MMORPGs out there that, in my opinion, can match the depth and lore of WoW, the lone exception being maybe SWTOR.
Take Asheron's Call, monthly events by the devs that evolved the storyline and actually changed the game world. EverQuest had thousandsof years of backstory.
This is exactly what WotLK did with the phasing technology to change the static game world and Cataclysm will make even more use of it.
Umm... first off, why do you talk of phasing technology as if its something new? Lord of the Rings Online has had it since launch, and no, phasing does not change the game world. It provides instances for people depending on what quest they are on, the story doesn't branch or change, and it took Blizzard 2 years to put it in.
Asheron's Call changed the game world each month depending on what the players did or how the storyline was evolving, and it changed for EVERYONE. Fire demon rises in power and doesn't get stopped? Well, it'll burn a few well known cities to ash. Real consequences and story evolution.
Originally posted by Anubisan
If there is one thing you can count on around here at mmorpg.com, its the abundance of WOW-haters...
I don't care what any of you say, there is no other MMO that has as much content and as many features as well implemented as WoW does. Really? Does WoW have housing? An expansive crafting system that ties into a player economy? RvR and persistant keeps to capture and control? Naval combat? Guild city building? uninstanced 100+ man raids? No? That's right. Older games have these things, and if they could do it in 2001 with 30 devs, Blizzard should be ashamed with how little it's done with their massive army of developers.
You may claim that such and such game did x first, but none of them did it in a way that was as user friendly and polished as Blizzard did in WoW. So what you're saying is, no one made them as simple and one dimensional as Blizzard did, and you say that as if its a good thing?
Of course they borrowed elements from other games... that is what successful game designers do. No, successful game designers use other ideas as a base, and build upon it, making it their own and adding new things to it. Dark Age of Camelot took the PvE from EverQuest as a base, and added on an entire RvR system. WoW has not built anything, they've only gutted features to leave them as simple and one dimensional and addictive as possible without bogging you down in silly things like immersion or deep gameplay mechanics. WoW simply took the most money earning features from EverQuest, stripped down most of the features, and shoved it unceremoniously into WoW. They haven't brought any new features or innovations to the market. They're just Borg.
They see what worked well in other games and they implement it in their own game minus the annoyances of the original system. Sorry, but some people don't consider immersion and rewarding gameplay as an annoyance. But I guess it is to some. Some people that love Wii sports would consider playing regular games annoying.
I think most of the WoW hate round here comes from the fact that many of you just don't like themepark games. Being a long-time UO vet, I can fully understand this. I prefer sandboxes, kind of. But my favorite game was Dark Age of Camelot, which was not a sandbox, it was just a game that didn't assume that you were too stupid to breathe without being told to and given a cookie when you remembered how.
However, I have never played a sandbox game that came anywhere even close to the amount of implemented features and polished content that WoW sports. There just aren't any. In fact, there aren't any MMOs PERIOD that can touch WoW in terms of amount of content or polish. Whether you like the game or not doesn't change that fact... Like I already pointed out, plenty more games that have more content and features than WoW. Old and new alike. Vanguard alone probably has 4 times as much content (because, in WoW terms, content just means, quests and land mass) and for a game that hasn't been developed in 3 years, that's sad.
WoW brought plenty new to the genre. So much so it couldn't be cloned if it wasn't true. Even Guild Wars 2 is going to copy the pet mechanic from the hunters. WoW didn't invent the hunter pet mechanic. That's been around in MMORPGs since 1999, or 2001 if you want to be picky. You're just helping to prove the point that most people that praise WoW are just ignorant of better games.
The fact of the matter is, WoW bashing and WoW praising doesn't change the fact that WoW is the biggest MMO to ever come. It sucks admitting something is the best on ANY weird criteria we can come up with. But when you lead the genre and you define the genre, and you pretty much are the guy to beat in the genre. You are the technically the best. So I guess Wii Sports is the end all be all video game. It leads the genre in sales, and is the biggest thing to come in years. So, video games are defined by, Wii sports. This is why you can't use sales as a guage for how good something is.
I'm not going to pretend WoW wasn't a well crafted game that did bring a lot of new things to the genre, and it'll continue to influence the design and creation of all sorts of games for generations to come. There's nothing wrong with it, and taking a stance like 'wow sux cuz i didn't like it' is.. I can't even think of the proper word to use to establish how little intelligence it takes to do such a thing.
There are plenty of games I don't like or have fun playing that I can admit are innovative and well made, like Eve. Warcraft on the other hand, did NOT bring ANYTHING new to the genre, and has just brought about 5 years of stagnation and boredom. Go ahead, try to name something WoW has brought to the table.
That doesn't detract from the game what success it built up and what innovation it brought.
Please, name this innovation, I'm dying for a reason to give WoW credit for something.
They see what worked well in other games and they implement it in their own game minus the annoyances of the original system. Sorry, but some people don't consider immersion and rewarding gameplay as an annoyance. But I guess it is to some. Some people that love Wii sports would consider playing regular games annoying.
I'm gonna disagree with these points here. WoW did have something that was immersive and that was the quests. Sure there are still quests that uses the same old Kill X, gather X. In WoTLK, there were plenty of quests that used many diverse mechanics such as controlling a vehicle.
Have you seen the Death Knight Starting area? It was one of the best starting area ever developed by Blizzard. The environment changed as you progressed through the zones and the final battle at Light's Hope Citadel. And don't get me started on the Wrath gate cinematics and the Battle of the Undercity that followed it. There are a lot more examples that I could name.
They see what worked well in other games and they implement it in their own game minus the annoyances of the original system. Sorry, but some people don't consider immersion and rewarding gameplay as an annoyance. But I guess it is to some. Some people that love Wii sports would consider playing regular games annoying.
I'm gonna disagree with these points here. WoW did have something that was immersive and that was the quests. Sure there are still quests that uses the same old Kill X, gather X. In WoTLK, there were plenty of quests that used many diverse mechanics such as controlling a vehicle.
Have you seen the Death Knight Starting area? It was one of the best starting area ever developed by Blizzard. The environment changed as you progressed through the zones and the final battle at Light's Hope Citadel. And don't get me started on the Wrath gate cinematics and the Battle of the Undercity that followed it. There are a lot more examples that I could name.
When you have literally hundreds of useless quests in a game, a small handful does not redeem the whole lot. The quests were far from immerssive. From the giant "!" over the head, to the screen that showed you all the loot you were going to get, to the markers showing you exactly where to go and the ticker telling you just how many more things you had to kill. All these things just help to accent how much of a chore the quests are. They don't feel like quests, they feel like the same mindless task over and over. But I suppose given enough tries, Blizzard can make a few that are interesting. Controling vehicles does sound cool though.
I have been playing online games for years. Started off with MUD's (text based) .. then a game came out on AOL called Neverwinter nights.. then Ultima ONline..EQ, EQ2 up to WOW, Horizons, Earth and Beyond, Age of Conan, Anarchy Online, LOTR, City of Heros.
Every game has its faults. WoW does some small things that give it a good boost.. Take flight. Watch the mount flap wings.. the wings have joints.. also head movements look around.. your mount looks around.. glides things like that. Small things come into play to give WoW a more genuine feel to it. No it is not orginal. Any fantasy will rob from DnD or JR Tolkien, general history of dragons, vampires and what ever else. Being orginal in today's world will be tough for any game. But small details in the game will keep players comeing.
When wow first came out.. there was no quest helper.. there was no Outlands, not many addons. As popularity came, so did these additions.
For all the hate about bad graphic's, wow still does movement and random expessions better than the better graphic's ones. You get on a mount in AoC.. and you just ride.. the horses movement is very determined and it doesn't look around.. doesn't buck doesn't do nothing but run in a straight line..
Blizzard made the game simple to attract non gamers.. the girlfriend that hates watching you play all day .. the husband who is tired from work, the child that is too young to understand.. and they made money getting more than just "you" involved into their realm.
Best game, give me the complex raids like EQ had, the random world raid progression that EQ had (one guild kill mob.. your stuck til it respawn), the graphic's of AoC as far as environment, Character creation of COH, the houseing of EQ2, the stratagy of Star Wars galaxy (before they screwed up the game), and the character movements and responsiveness of WoW, dungeons of DnD online.. that would be a good game. Put in there where soloing will be too hard to do.. (afterall it is a MULTI PLAYER GAME) and gearing up should take you awhile.. .. keeping players coming back to get the good gear.
As far as PVP .. Wow has done their best to keep it competitive by keeping class's equalized (to some degree) and arena's.. most MMO's can not touch this due to PVE and PVP are too different of environments and do not line up.
ALL in all. it is the community that makes the game.. if your community of friends dies.. .. then the MMO will die.. there has to be a certain feel to the game.. and WoW.. has been successful in creating that feel.
First: i think the poll should be edited to "whats the best themepark MMO" , both genres are too different to be compared.(sandbox vs themepark)
Second: Some people need to accept that others may like other games more because it's all a matter of opinion and how important some aspects of games are to some people. I can totally understand how a Crafting-fan would prefer ATITD over WoW. I can also totally understand how someone who thinks graphics are very important and doesn't like art style of WoW would prefer other MMO's over it. I still think CoH is the best RTS (CoH in the RTS world= company of heroes) because it's the basebuilding RTS with the highest strategic and tactical depth i know , but if you want a fast-paced rts it could not be your favorite . So really , i think it's more interesting to see WHY someone would prefer an other game and maybe point out if there are flaws in his logic (eg: this game is more polished while its clearly not. But this can only be done on 'measurable' variables) than just bashing each other's head.
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
The consideration of what is "best" is often subjective and dependent on what aspects were looking at.
When I consider if a game is better than others I look at the fun factor. Or are the graphics more pleasing to the eye than other games. Both are subjective. What is not subjective are questions like do the new aspects introduced in expansions work with all of the old stuff from the original release? Is customer service consistently effective? Have the companies in question done well by addressing game play concerns? The point is that there are many different ways to judge it and is reflected in the previous posts.
I enjoyed WoW for a time. One thing that killed it for me was realizing that endgame was all about getting a set or two of gear that had a particular score on it. Another thing was seeing the same folks in the BGs capping before the gates opened after they were reported several times.
people just like it, thats all, it doest mean its the best, its what people like, there are better games that no one looks at, just because they are too complicated for the mind of the emo 13 yr old kid, who gets bullied and wants to make a human/belf pally and be pr0 and pwn n00bz0rz
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Only problem is the McDonals analaogy doesnt hold up, at least nto how the haters want to spin it. McDonalds is the best at what they do, fast food. Do other people prefer other fast food? Sure they do but McDonalds gets a bulk of the business and thus puts out a better fast food product. But most of you want to open up the analogy to include all food , even the greatest food from 4 or 5 star restaraunts that people are willing to pay alot more for. Well of course McDonalds isnt better than those restaraunts, its comparing apples to oranges.
In MMORPG's WoW is king, no one is even remotely close to touching them money wise. Are there other games out there people prefer? Sure, everyone has different tastes but most people prefer to play WoW in that given genre. You hear that? In its given genre, which is MMORPG's ... no one even comes close to touching them. In fact people pay more for WoW than other MMORPG's offering the same type game.
So yes, McDonalds and WoW are teh best at what they do in there respective areas. Although I wont touch McDonalds food anymore and I would also rather play an MMORPG that is closer to a RL sim. However, I cant deny the facts ...maybe alot and I mean ALOT of other people can ignore the facts and make up dumb analogies but Im not one of them.
No. Everything you can do in wow is average at max and done better in other games. What wow has is tons of money for marketing, that's where it glances.
So, people buy alot becouse its easy to acces, while theres more delicious dishes that is harder to get.
What makes me a bit angry is that every game tries to make a game like wow to get players, they should jsut forget that, there wont be any other mmo with that playerbase again.
Excuse me?
Please, by all means, list all of the games that do things better than WoW. You may be able to compile a list of games that have ONE or maybe TWO features that, IN YOUR OPINION, are better than what Blizzard has done, but not a single one of them.... and that bears repeating... NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM, comes close to WoW's overall polish and features.
[Mod Edit]
WoW is the best MMORPG in terms of both quality and subscribers number. I play WoW because I love the lore and storyline of the Warcraft universe. Sure, classic WoW and TBC's quests were not very good, but WoTLK improved that aspect a lot and Cataclysm will only make the lore even more epic. There is no other MMORPGs out there that, in my opinion, can match the depth and lore of WoW, the lone exception being maybe SWTOR.
Well, since WoW does its best to hide its story by making its quests little more than go x do y run back, endless tasks that there are always more of, it doesn't facilitate good story telling.
And if you look at Warcraft lore in general, its almost entirely a rip off of Warhammer, and where it isn't, it's a rip off of other fantasy stories. Hell, they even tear into Arthurian legend without even changing the names. The Lord of the Rings lore is easily a lot deeper just by its nature, and many old MMORPGs were littered with story. Take Asheron's Call, monthly events by the devs that evolved the storyline and actually changed the game world. EverQuest had thousandsof years of backstory.
Once again, its something WoW does well, but has already been done better by someone else.
Don't get me wrong, WOW's a great game, and if they had done a few (but key) things differently I might have hung around longer than 18 months.
I can't argue the game excels in many areas, not the least being in sub numbers so its a top quality game. (and in my top 5).
But I do rate other games above it overall (not many) and that is strictly based on my personal preferences, and nothing really to do with WOW itself.
It is what it is.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This is exactly what WotLK did with the phasing technology to change the static game world and Cataclysm will make even more use of it.
If there is one thing you can count on around here at mmorpg.com, its the abundance of WOW-haters...
I don't care what any of you say, there is no other MMO that has as much content and as many features as well implemented as WoW does. You may claim that such and such game did x first, but none of them did it in a way that was as user friendly and polished as Blizzard did in WoW. Of course they borrowed elements from other games... that is what successful game designers do. They see what worked well in other games and they implement it in their own game minus the annoyances of the original system. WoW does this very well and millions of people enjoy it as a result.
I think most of the WoW hate round here comes from the fact that many of you just don't like themepark games. Being a long-time UO vet, I can fully understand this. However, I have never played a sandbox game that came anywhere even close to the amount of implemented features and polished content that WoW sports. There just aren't any. In fact, there aren't any MMOs PERIOD that can touch WoW in terms of amount of content or polish. Whether you like the game or not doesn't change that fact...
Thread subject aside, let's be real, shall we?
GW2 isn't copying the pet mechanic from WoW, it already had it in GW. Obviously you never played it.
WoW is good in a number of things, even the best in several features but it's hardly the best in ANY weird criteria someone can come up with, that's crazy talk.
Neither is WoW known for grand innovation, it took what was out there already and polished it to a high degree. Sure, it has some innovative features like the phasing, but it's the polish and accessibility it's known for, not because it's a champion of innovation.
There are a number of causes why WoW is the most successful, and since this is a forum it's not strange to have enthusiastic opinion about it, but people should get their facts straight, else they sound like noobs.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Er... yeah. Regardless how many features WOW has, what it lacks or where it differs is what is important to people in determining what is the best MMORPG. I think EVE has WOW beat hands down in the areas that I care about.
Without the polish of course.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
100% true!
I can't speak for others, but what I really hate are the fanbois and haters and especially the really moronic arguments they tend to use that degenerates into half a flamewar what otherwise could have been a sensible discussion thread.
Then again, nothing new or unexpected to see.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Yeah, you know it is going to be the flame thread when you see the quote wars going on.
Quotes of the quote to the quote of the quote with nice different colors of text. Definately an indication that this discussion may be degenerating into an abyss of hype and gripe.
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
Umm... first off, why do you talk of phasing technology as if its something new? Lord of the Rings Online has had it since launch, and no, phasing does not change the game world. It provides instances for people depending on what quest they are on, the story doesn't branch or change, and it took Blizzard 2 years to put it in.
Asheron's Call changed the game world each month depending on what the players did or how the storyline was evolving, and it changed for EVERYONE. Fire demon rises in power and doesn't get stopped? Well, it'll burn a few well known cities to ash. Real consequences and story evolution.
Please, name this innovation, I'm dying for a reason to give WoW credit for something.
I'm gonna disagree with these points here. WoW did have something that was immersive and that was the quests. Sure there are still quests that uses the same old Kill X, gather X. In WoTLK, there were plenty of quests that used many diverse mechanics such as controlling a vehicle.
Have you seen the Death Knight Starting area? It was one of the best starting area ever developed by Blizzard. The environment changed as you progressed through the zones and the final battle at Light's Hope Citadel. And don't get me started on the Wrath gate cinematics and the Battle of the Undercity that followed it. There are a lot more examples that I could name.
When you have literally hundreds of useless quests in a game, a small handful does not redeem the whole lot. The quests were far from immerssive. From the giant "!" over the head, to the screen that showed you all the loot you were going to get, to the markers showing you exactly where to go and the ticker telling you just how many more things you had to kill. All these things just help to accent how much of a chore the quests are. They don't feel like quests, they feel like the same mindless task over and over. But I suppose given enough tries, Blizzard can make a few that are interesting. Controling vehicles does sound cool though.
I have been playing online games for years. Started off with MUD's (text based) .. then a game came out on AOL called Neverwinter nights.. then Ultima ONline..EQ, EQ2 up to WOW, Horizons, Earth and Beyond, Age of Conan, Anarchy Online, LOTR, City of Heros.
Every game has its faults. WoW does some small things that give it a good boost.. Take flight. Watch the mount flap wings.. the wings have joints.. also head movements look around.. your mount looks around.. glides things like that. Small things come into play to give WoW a more genuine feel to it. No it is not orginal. Any fantasy will rob from DnD or JR Tolkien, general history of dragons, vampires and what ever else. Being orginal in today's world will be tough for any game. But small details in the game will keep players comeing.
When wow first came out.. there was no quest helper.. there was no Outlands, not many addons. As popularity came, so did these additions.
For all the hate about bad graphic's, wow still does movement and random expessions better than the better graphic's ones. You get on a mount in AoC.. and you just ride.. the horses movement is very determined and it doesn't look around.. doesn't buck doesn't do nothing but run in a straight line..
Blizzard made the game simple to attract non gamers.. the girlfriend that hates watching you play all day .. the husband who is tired from work, the child that is too young to understand.. and they made money getting more than just "you" involved into their realm.
Best game, give me the complex raids like EQ had, the random world raid progression that EQ had (one guild kill mob.. your stuck til it respawn), the graphic's of AoC as far as environment, Character creation of COH, the houseing of EQ2, the stratagy of Star Wars galaxy (before they screwed up the game), and the character movements and responsiveness of WoW, dungeons of DnD online.. that would be a good game. Put in there where soloing will be too hard to do.. (afterall it is a MULTI PLAYER GAME) and gearing up should take you awhile.. .. keeping players coming back to get the good gear.
As far as PVP .. Wow has done their best to keep it competitive by keeping class's equalized (to some degree) and arena's.. most MMO's can not touch this due to PVE and PVP are too different of environments and do not line up.
ALL in all. it is the community that makes the game.. if your community of friends dies.. .. then the MMO will die.. there has to be a certain feel to the game.. and WoW.. has been successful in creating that feel.
Kraa26
First: i think the poll should be edited to "whats the best themepark MMO" , both genres are too different to be compared.(sandbox vs themepark)
Second: Some people need to accept that others may like other games more because it's all a matter of opinion and how important some aspects of games are to some people. I can totally understand how a Crafting-fan would prefer ATITD over WoW. I can also totally understand how someone who thinks graphics are very important and doesn't like art style of WoW would prefer other MMO's over it. I still think CoH is the best RTS (CoH in the RTS world= company of heroes) because it's the basebuilding RTS with the highest strategic and tactical depth i know , but if you want a fast-paced rts it could not be your favorite . So really , i think it's more interesting to see WHY someone would prefer an other game and maybe point out if there are flaws in his logic (eg: this game is more polished while its clearly not. But this can only be done on 'measurable' variables) than just bashing each other's head.
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
Yeah, there are a lot of WoW haters.
-popcorn2199
The consideration of what is "best" is often subjective and dependent on what aspects were looking at.
When I consider if a game is better than others I look at the fun factor. Or are the graphics more pleasing to the eye than other games. Both are subjective. What is not subjective are questions like do the new aspects introduced in expansions work with all of the old stuff from the original release? Is customer service consistently effective? Have the companies in question done well by addressing game play concerns? The point is that there are many different ways to judge it and is reflected in the previous posts.
I enjoyed WoW for a time. One thing that killed it for me was realizing that endgame was all about getting a set or two of gear that had a particular score on it. Another thing was seeing the same folks in the BGs capping before the gates opened after they were reported several times.
people just like it, thats all, it doest mean its the best, its what people like, there are better games that no one looks at, just because they are too complicated for the mind of the emo 13 yr old kid, who gets bullied and wants to make a human/belf pally and be pr0 and pwn n00bz0rz
^^