I had typed out a response but then I deleted it because I was making an assumption that I knew what you were talking about when I don't know for sure.
So as others have asked I also must ask; what exactly are you talking about. Please give an example of what you mean.
Anything really.
Buying a mount. Spending 8 hours more then you in game. Dancing on mail boxes. Buying potions from some store. Buying stat increases. Being a Raider. Wearing all purple and rainbows. Using a cash shop. Its all competition where there is none, and "keeping up with the joneses".
So, I can refine the question further if you would like, one by one. I was intentionally vague because posters on this site get caught up in semantics and principle rather than reality. The sprit of the question is the importiant part. "Why do you give a crap".
Q: I have a shiney mount I bought in the store. How does this impact you, and why do you care what I bought with my money, or time.
If someone is paying real money for a mount, or stat increase, potions, whatever else from an item mall in a different game than what I play, I don't care.
If someone is doing the above in a game I'm playing, I care.
To me, MMOs are largely about immersion into the 'virtual world' of the game. If I can't become immersed in the game world, I quickly tire of the game.
RMT runs contrary to immersion, by allowing real world elements of influence bleed into the game. If I see someone on a "sparkle pony" they bought for $29.99 in my game, the thought pops up in the back of my head, about that person having spent money to buy it... and right there, immersion is lost.
I will avoid MMOs that have RMT explicitly because of this, because I make that choice and that's what I prefer. I'm not imposing my will on anyone. However, if a game I've been playing for several years suddenly adds RMT, then you better believe I'm going to be unhappy about it, and voice my opinion over it. Aside from that, I don't care what people spend their money on in an MMO, so long as it's not in the MMO I'm playing.
I care only if they are getting an advantage with money/breaking the rules. So if it is a P2P game and they are buying gold/items/characters I care, because it is against the rules and is giving them an unfair advantage.
I only refer to developer sanctioned things.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Q: I have a shiney mount I bought in the store. How does this impact you, and why do you care what I bought with my money, or time.
if that shiney mount isnt possible to get through actual game play, how dosent it?
I care when I am blocked off from in game reward content solely for the purpose of making me pay extra for it, when it previously would have been included in my sub cost.
I care very much which model that you choose to support with your money because that helps define the model I am forced to play under if I want to play that game.
I don't think many of us are fooled into thinking the OP is merely pondering an innocent question here. That aside, the fact that the title referenced "entertainment product" rather than "game" tells me that the OP recognizes that there is a distinct difference. This difference alone would have changed the tone and content of the responses entirely.
Are you saying games are not entertainment products?
Perhaps considering them as anything elese is part of the problem.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
I don't think many of us are fooled into thinking the OP is merely pondering an innocent question here. That aside, the fact that the title referenced "entertainment product" rather than "game" tells me that the OP recognizes that there is a distinct difference. This difference alone would have changed the tone and content of the responses entirely.
Are you saying games are not entertainment products?
Perhaps considering them anything is part of the problem.
No, he is saying theres word play involved here thats aimed at changing the perception of these things from games to virtual market places with attached chat rooms.
Q: I have a shiney mount I bought in the store. How does this impact you, and why do you care what I bought with my money, or time.
if that shiney mount isnt possible to get through actual game play, how dosent it?
I care when I am blocked off from in game reward content solely for the purpose of making me pay extra for it, when it previously would have been included in my sub cost.
I care very much which model that you choose to support with your money because that helps define the model I am forced to play under if I want to play that game.
So, you feel entitled? My mount does not affect you. Yet, you now have issues becouse I have somthing you don't?
You were never blocked from content, this is true if it exists in game as a reward, or simply in a store.
Does your money entitle you to name changes, or server transfers, as they are offerd for an extra fee in most titles?
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
I don't think many of us are fooled into thinking the OP is merely pondering an innocent question here. That aside, the fact that the title referenced "entertainment product" rather than "game" tells me that the OP recognizes that there is a distinct difference. This difference alone would have changed the tone and content of the responses entirely.
Are you saying games are not entertainment products?
Perhaps considering them anything is part of the problem.
No, he is saying theres word play involved here thats aimed at changing the perception of these things from games to virtual market places with attached chat rooms.
So, games are not entertainment products?
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Especially when it usually has zero impact on you?
Simple question.
The actions that people in a community take do impact you or, to be incredibly cynical, they will eventually. Think about RMT, it's an example amongst many. When people do not understand this it demonstrates a serious lack of understaning in respect to what 'community' is, 'impact' as well. Unfortunately, Mrbloodworth, you don't get it and people who have to ask this question or think that there is no appreciable connexion do not get it either. All I can do is point this out; unfortunately, arguing against your disposition (and it really is a disposition and not an argument, none has been given) is absolutely futile.
Why are you so angry that I have a funny hat and you do not?
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
I care only if they are getting an advantage with money/breaking the rules. So if it is a P2P game and they are buying gold/items/characters I care, because it is against the rules and is giving them an unfair advantage.
I only refer to developer sanctioned things.
Which is what the rest of my post that you snipped out talked about, and discussed how I won't play those games because yes it matters what other people do.
Basically from how I've seen this post go, you asked your question in as vague a way as you could come up with. This was likely to prevent a steady stream of responses that directly confilcted with your personal thoughts because different people read the question differently and thus responded about different things.
As people respond back you either quote their entire post and use 1 line that doesn't even address what they're saying, or you pick out just part of their post that you find easy to respond to.
Basically you don't want discussion, you don't care what others think. What you want is for people to agree with you and to not judge you when you buy a bunch of items in a game. Good for you, but don't post it in a place that is for discussions when you don't want to discuss it.
You like to spend you money on pointless items in a game when developers let you, you probably plan on spending a lot on LotRO when it switches over, but for some reason it bothers you that other people are bothered by that fact. Several of us have explained why, and all of our posts say similar things. So the reason why people care should be obvious to you by now.
Especially when it usually has zero impact on you?
Simple question.
I don't give a shit what you or anyone else does on this forum.
I play my games (even if people here hate and flame them) and get into discussions of my favorite past, present and future games.
That's a good philosophy to have.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
If you care it's cause it HAS impact. And truth is even if you say it does not have any impact on you, if you care its cause, in some way, you felt identified.
Reasons:
1) Envy -> Gives birth to the "Haters".
2) Impotence: When games were created free to play (F2P) but play to win (P2W).
3) Curiosity: seeing people happily pouring hundreds of bucks and talking about it as an "inversion" makes people get interested in the game in a positive or negative way: "are those toons really worth that much? gotta give it a try!/which i had money to give it a try!" or "are those toons really worth that much? people are starving in africa and that dude is wasting all that money on pixels".
4) Opportunity-> Gives birth to Gold Sellers, keyloggers, hackers, cheaters.
Maybe there are a couple more but, from experience and common sense you should get to know why people Care, even if they openly admit they do not.
I care only if they are getting an advantage with money/breaking the rules. So if it is a P2P game and they are buying gold/items/characters I care, because it is against the rules and is giving them an unfair advantage.
I only refer to developer sanctioned things.
Which is what the rest of my post that you snipped out talked about, and discussed how I won't play those games because yes it matters what other people do.
Why does this matter to you?
Do you also care what people do in there own homes at night?
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
I don't think many of us are fooled into thinking the OP is merely pondering an innocent question here. That aside, the fact that the title referenced "entertainment product" rather than "game" tells me that the OP recognizes that there is a distinct difference. This difference alone would have changed the tone and content of the responses entirely.
Are you saying games are not entertainment products?
Perhaps considering them anything is part of the problem.
No, he is saying theres word play involved here thats aimed at changing the perception of these things from games to virtual market places with attached chat rooms.
So, games are not entertainment products?
Of course they are, thats not the point I was making, and I think you know that.
The word play remains.
In diffusing the definition of what actually constitutes a game and lumping it into a much much broader category you are attempting to remove the core aspects that actually makes it what it is. You are attempting to move games alongside passive entertainment products such as cable TV, when they arnt the same animal at all. You are attempting to create the perception of them as passive consumer experiences, rather then active creative ones (which is what a game at it's best is).
I don't think many of us are fooled into thinking the OP is merely pondering an innocent question here. That aside, the fact that the title referenced "entertainment product" rather than "game" tells me that the OP recognizes that there is a distinct difference. This difference alone would have changed the tone and content of the responses entirely.
Are you saying games are not entertainment products?
Perhaps considering them anything is part of the problem.
No, he is saying theres word play involved here thats aimed at changing the perception of these things from games to virtual market places with attached chat rooms.
So, games are not entertainment products?
Of course they are, thats not the point I was making, and I think you know that.
The word play remains.
In diffusing the definition of what actually constitutes a game and lumping it into a much much broader category you are attempting to remove the core aspects that actually makes it what it is. You are attempting to move games alongside passive entertainment products such as cable TV, when they arnt the same animal at all. You are attempting to create the perception of them as passive consumer experiences, rather then active creative ones (which is what a game at it's best is).
Thats the point being made.
There is no difference. Also, pit of Semantics.
Do you have any insight to the question posed? or will you simply argue that the question is unfair and there is a conspericy afoot.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
The only game I played that it seemed to matter, and then again it didnt help that much, was Evony. And it hardly matter because everyone playing that game was a P2W player.
He is not asking if you do or do not. If you do not does not matter.
If you care, why?
Answer is very simple too, but just put what you think so some of us can have a laugh.
I welcome you kindly to the thread.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Q: I have a shiney mount I bought in the store. How does this impact you, and why do you care what I bought with my money, or time.
if that shiney mount isnt possible to get through actual game play, how dosent it?
I care when I am blocked off from in game reward content solely for the purpose of making me pay extra for it, when it previously would have been included in my sub cost.
I care very much which model that you choose to support with your money because that helps define the model I am forced to play under if I want to play that game.
So, you feel entitled? My mount does not affect you. Yet, you now have issues becouse I have somthing you don't?
You were never blocked from content, this is true if it exists in game as a reward, or simply in a store.
Does your money entitle you to name changes, or server transfers, as they are offerd for an extra fee in most titles?
A simple read of my sig would answer a lot of your questions
Q: I have a shiney mount I bought in the store. How does this impact you, and why do you care what I bought with my money, or time.
if that shiney mount isnt possible to get through actual game play, how dosent it?
I care when I am blocked off from in game reward content solely for the purpose of making me pay extra for it, when it previously would have been included in my sub cost.
I care very much which model that you choose to support with your money because that helps define the model I am forced to play under if I want to play that game.
So, you feel entitled? My mount does not affect you. Yet, you now have issues becouse I have somthing you don't?
You were never blocked from content, this is true if it exists in game as a reward, or simply in a store.
Does your money entitle you to name changes, or server transfers, as they are offerd for an extra fee in most titles?
A simple read of my sig would answer a lot of your questions
Take a moment to read mine.
I never specafied the various types other than devloper produced.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
I care only if they are getting an advantage with money/breaking the rules. So if it is a P2P game and they are buying gold/items/characters I care, because it is against the rules and is giving them an unfair advantage.
I only refer to developer sanctioned things.
Which is what the rest of my post that you snipped out talked about, and discussed how I won't play those games because yes it matters what other people do.
Why does this matter to you?
Do you also care what people do in there own homes at night?
You know I have answered the question and you chose not to acknowledge it, the same way you ignored everyone else that didn't agree with your personal view.
All you have shown on this thread is that you desire people to justify your habits and ignore those who disagree. Enjoy your thread in which you only want to make yourself feel better about spending extra money on games and attempt to shutdown those who explain why they don't agree with that mindset.
You have completely invalidated your own thread at this point, enjoy it. All the people who do like to discuss things will let you have your fake hollow self fullfilling thread now.
Q: I have a shiney mount I bought in the store. How does this impact you, and why do you care what I bought with my money, or time.
if that shiney mount isnt possible to get through actual game play, how dosent it?
I care when I am blocked off from in game reward content solely for the purpose of making me pay extra for it, when it previously would have been included in my sub cost.
I care very much which model that you choose to support with your money because that helps define the model I am forced to play under if I want to play that game.
So, you feel entitled? My mount does not affect you. Yet, you now have issues becouse I have somthing you don't?
You were never blocked from content, this is true if it exists in game as a reward, or simply in a store.
Does your money entitle you to name changes, or server transfers, as they are offerd for an extra fee in most titles?
A simple read of my sig would answer a lot of your questions
Comments
If someone is paying real money for a mount, or stat increase, potions, whatever else from an item mall in a different game than what I play, I don't care.
If someone is doing the above in a game I'm playing, I care.
To me, MMOs are largely about immersion into the 'virtual world' of the game. If I can't become immersed in the game world, I quickly tire of the game.
RMT runs contrary to immersion, by allowing real world elements of influence bleed into the game. If I see someone on a "sparkle pony" they bought for $29.99 in my game, the thought pops up in the back of my head, about that person having spent money to buy it... and right there, immersion is lost.
I will avoid MMOs that have RMT explicitly because of this, because I make that choice and that's what I prefer. I'm not imposing my will on anyone. However, if a game I've been playing for several years suddenly adds RMT, then you better believe I'm going to be unhappy about it, and voice my opinion over it. Aside from that, I don't care what people spend their money on in an MMO, so long as it's not in the MMO I'm playing.
This topic again eh? Why does the OP care so much about what other people think of what other people do in games?
Why do you care what the OP cares about what other people think about what others do in games?
I only refer to developer sanctioned things.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
if that shiney mount isnt possible to get through actual game play, how dosent it?
I care when I am blocked off from in game reward content solely for the purpose of making me pay extra for it, when it previously would have been included in my sub cost.
I care very much which model that you choose to support with your money because that helps define the model I am forced to play under if I want to play that game.
Are you saying games are not entertainment products?
Perhaps considering them as anything elese is part of the problem.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
No, he is saying theres word play involved here thats aimed at changing the perception of these things from games to virtual market places with attached chat rooms.
So, you feel entitled? My mount does not affect you. Yet, you now have issues becouse I have somthing you don't?
You were never blocked from content, this is true if it exists in game as a reward, or simply in a store.
Does your money entitle you to name changes, or server transfers, as they are offerd for an extra fee in most titles?
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
So, games are not entertainment products?
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Why are you so angry that I have a funny hat and you do not?
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Which is what the rest of my post that you snipped out talked about, and discussed how I won't play those games because yes it matters what other people do.
Basically from how I've seen this post go, you asked your question in as vague a way as you could come up with. This was likely to prevent a steady stream of responses that directly confilcted with your personal thoughts because different people read the question differently and thus responded about different things.
As people respond back you either quote their entire post and use 1 line that doesn't even address what they're saying, or you pick out just part of their post that you find easy to respond to.
Basically you don't want discussion, you don't care what others think. What you want is for people to agree with you and to not judge you when you buy a bunch of items in a game. Good for you, but don't post it in a place that is for discussions when you don't want to discuss it.
You like to spend you money on pointless items in a game when developers let you, you probably plan on spending a lot on LotRO when it switches over, but for some reason it bothers you that other people are bothered by that fact. Several of us have explained why, and all of our posts say similar things. So the reason why people care should be obvious to you by now.
I don't give a shit what you or anyone else does on this forum.
I play my games (even if people here hate and flame them) and get into discussions of my favorite past, present and future games.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
That's a good philosophy to have.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Search the Gnosis.
Why does this matter to you?
Do you also care what people do in there own homes at night?
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Of course they are, thats not the point I was making, and I think you know that.
The word play remains.
In diffusing the definition of what actually constitutes a game and lumping it into a much much broader category you are attempting to remove the core aspects that actually makes it what it is. You are attempting to move games alongside passive entertainment products such as cable TV, when they arnt the same animal at all. You are attempting to create the perception of them as passive consumer experiences, rather then active creative ones (which is what a game at it's best is).
Thats the point being made.
There is no difference. Also, pit of Semantics.
Do you have any insight to the question posed? or will you simply argue that the question is unfair and there is a conspericy afoot.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
I dont care.
The only game I played that it seemed to matter, and then again it didnt help that much, was Evony. And it hardly matter because everyone playing that game was a P2W player.
Gaming since Avalon Hill was making board games.
Played SWG, EVE, Fallen Earth, LOTRO, Rift, Vanguard, WoW, SWTOR, TSW, Tera
Tried Aoc, Aion, EQII, RoM, Vindictus, Darkfail, DDO, GW, PotBS
Stop going out of topic people.
Question is clear, badly formulated but clear.
Why do you care?
He is not asking if you do or do not. If you do not does not matter.
If you care, why?
Answer is very simple too, but just put what you think so some of us can have a laugh.
Search the Gnosis.
I welcome you kindly to the thread.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
A simple read of my sig would answer a lot of your questions
Take a moment to read mine.
I never specafied the various types other than devloper produced.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
You know I have answered the question and you chose not to acknowledge it, the same way you ignored everyone else that didn't agree with your personal view.
All you have shown on this thread is that you desire people to justify your habits and ignore those who disagree. Enjoy your thread in which you only want to make yourself feel better about spending extra money on games and attempt to shutdown those who explain why they don't agree with that mindset.
You have completely invalidated your own thread at this point, enjoy it. All the people who do like to discuss things will let you have your fake hollow self fullfilling thread now.
Nah.