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Guild Wars 2: No Grind? Yes, Please!
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
In his latest column, MMORPG.com Community Manager Michael Bitton takes a look at Guild Wars 2 and how ArenaNet has decided to take away the 'been there, done that' feeling that many gamers are experiencing in today's MMOs. Find out what Mike thinks is it that Guild Wars 2 devs are bringing to the genre is exciting the worldwide MMO community.
Guild Wars 2’s sudden surge in popularity is largely due in part to ArenaNet’s candid assessment of the MMO genre and their clearly outlined plans to address issues that have contributed to a sense of MMO stagnation, a serious “been there, done that” feeling amongst gamers. Innovation is always tricky when it comes to this super high-risk genre. Innovating simply to innovate often results in a game that suffers in every other area, or just becomes too confusing. The pace of successful advancement in this genre could definitely be best described as evolutionary rather than revolutionary.
Read more of Mike's assessment of Guild Wars 2.
Comments
I didn't want to say it but.... broken link.
Should be good now. Had to make some last minute edits.
"If there is a dungeon with an item you want in it, you'll only have to do that dungeon a pre-determined finite amount of times to get what you want out of it. You won't spend three days hitting the level cap and then five years gearing up"
I really like travelling and exploring the world in MMO's across vast outdoors (Forests, Mountains) etc but I never enjoyed these sorts of forced treadmills.
"...ranging from the de-emphasizing of traditional class roles, to removing the barrier to entry on grouping (full XP, full loot for all), an interesting take on death as Garrett covered last week, and most of all a lack of focus on “the grind.”"
Good riddance to healers: Too dependent on their presence in an enemy group or lack of it in your own group! Hopefully people will group-up to create better/more attack options become available as opposed to creating mutual lottery ticket queues. My instinct is that death should be a heavier penalty possibly as well as have the downed state to avoid it??
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
I really don't want to turn into a fanboy before even testing the game but every time they release new info it makes it harder to resist.
I'm so glad they're doing this, just like the first game. Instead of repetetiveness they're giving variety, much like a console game rather than traditional MMO's
Totally agree. I have a huge feeling this time that this game turn out big.
*claps*
*claps again*
*and claps again*
i still dont get it, then why is the need of levels in this game?
A Net should just remove the level cap
So What Now?
Hey lets make so easy, a caveman can do it. God forbid someone has to work hard to achieve something worth while. They can go ahead and pander to children , lasy arses, and gamers without patience. But I will stick with MMO's that give you the feeling of actual achievement for your dedication.
There are plenty of mmos out there that have the grind you want. Then you can pay them for working in a game. If you don't like the direction this game is going then ignore it, plenty of others for you to play.
I don't equate an arbitrary increase of time with achievement. Making it require 200 quests or 500 mobs to get one level when it used to take 20 quests or 100 mobs doesn't add to the experience, it just makes a level take longer for reasons that don't benefit the player any. Instead, they only serve to keep the player playing longer so they can get more money out of you.
Completing 200 quests vs. 20 quests isn't a measure of difficulty, it's a measure of patience and tolerance. Killing 20 bears to turn in a quest isn't any different from killing 20 Angry Bears 30 levels later. The gameplay often remains the same, the time to level is simply increased.
When your content creation isn't forcibly designed around giving players enough filler to make it through the next level (due to lengthy TTL) you are more free to create interesting and memorable content throughout the progression. When your XP curve dictates it should take X (large) amount of quests to get through a level you aren't going to have time or resources to put together interesting quests to meet that quota, instead you end up with a lot of derivative basic stuff, or even worse, repeatable quests.
I suppose if you prefer running from quest hub to quest hub and clicking a bunch of question/exclamation marks to fill your journal with stuff you don't really care about but are only doing to get the next ding, that is your prerogative.
Me? I find ArenaNet's approach here refreshing, and I hope they can follow through on what they've been saying.
In any case, while we disagree, I appreciate your opinion, thanks for reading the article!
I am in loveeeee haha. Bring it on (when its finished).
"Work" should never be associated with a game. The purpose of a game is to have fun. To be lazy. To play. To relax.
I go to work and get paid. I don't want to have to work more when I get home. Especially when I don't get paid for it.
Tribes 2 is back!!!! http://www.tribesnext.com/
And from the makers of tribes: Fallen Empire: Legions http://www.instantaction.com/
Mike,
ArenaNet just put up a new video and soon another blog (link is currently broken as I write this). It might be something to add to the news section here.
Thanks bud! Looking into it!
Well I think you hit th enail on the head about why ArenaNet can get away with something like this.Their Business model means they don't have to care about giving you something to do between content expansions,they only have to ensure that you fele you got your money's worth of entertainment fromt he box price,so that you will buy the next offering.
So they hav eno need to artificially lengthen the process with the tired tricks of other MMOs ie low drop rates on quest items,Making you travel across the world 20 times to complete a quest chain,making you run dungeons over and over to win the itmes you want from boss drops if they happen to drop at all,waiting for rare spawns etc.
Grind is a player induced condition, spawned by fictional competition against those you are playing alone together with.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
I've seen some people raise the arguement "why get so excited over Anet's announcements - devs lie to overhype their games all the time?"
While it's true that we can point to many instances of devs stretching the truth in the past, this game seems a little different. I won't try to speak for others, but I've been playing MMOs for a long time and when I listen to what the Anet devs are saying, I believe them; because they know what they are talking about. They've come to a similar assessment of what MMO conventions can and should be innovated upon than I have.
I suspect much of the (well deserved) hype over this game is due to the fact that other mmo vets and even those who've been watching the genre, on the fence on when and where to step in, are seeing it the same way I do.
It's worth getting excited about, because even if they don't necessarily reach all their goals by launch (some features are left out, some don't accomplish what they were designed to do, etc) - you know that they have the right idea and will continue to improve the game based on that.
Alternatively, you could believe they have a really good idea of what needs to be done but choose to lie about actually doing it - which would be sort of pointlessly self-defeating.
New guildwars 2 video....After watching this im a believer now...This need to hurry up and come out i cant wait.
http://www.guildwars2.com/en/media/videos/#gw2-video-manifesto
You're clearly never played Guild Wars 1. I think you got your things backwards... I CAVEMAN could grind. A caveman would fail at a skill based game like GW and GW2.
A caveman could grind. But a caveman would fail at a skill based game (like GW and GW2).
Well Mike, I actually play for the content. I always read the quests and follow the story line on first playthrough. I get tired of reaching Lvl caps in a month or less, and blowing through content with all classes available, then end up sitting with my thumbs up my Arse until an expansion or update. That was my problem with Guild Wars 1, a Cap of 20. I got my Warrior there in a Week, then had to do the same for every class after. Thank god the game was free after purchase. I just don't want the same experience in the new game except with a monthly payment. Now I am not saying they don't have interesting content/features for the new game. My main concern is that the Game will be too easy. Best Example: World of Warcraft in 1 1/2 months I Lvled 1 Shaman to 80, a Warlock to 73, and a Warrior to 55. It should take more than 1 month to reach lvl cap. I don't want to buy a Game for $60, run through it's content in a month, then wait and pay $15 a month for a year until new content is released.
Now excuse me, I am going to go pay my neighbor to let me do his yard work.
So you stopped playing at level 20? Most of the content was at the max level. If you really do play for content then you really missed the boat in GW.
The thing about GW1 was there was grind for those people who enjoyed it and it was in the form of TITLES! Titles are the things that CAN make a person feel special, better, more tuned to the game design and more of a veteran than most players. From what I've head these titles will still be in GW and because they anet has made them unimportant to achieve but more important to those who want to achieve them, they struck the perfect balance for many players.
Let me give you an example of the type of titles you achieve in GW1 because they don't deal with killing a certain type of mob. To achieve Guardian of Elona, you have to finish all the missions in Hard mode, to achieve Legendary Vanquisher you have to finish kill all the mobs in all the instanced zones in the campaign in Hard mode, to achieve Legendary Delver you have to do dungeons in both Hard mode and Normal mode whilst collecting points for it.
Legendary Vanquisher and Legendary Delver are the more "grindy" title tracks and those are made specifically for those people who like to have achievements and things to say they are good at the game and they know what they are doing.
Those are the kinds of things Anet goes for rather than "increasing the time it takes to level and calling it content".
This is not a game.
Oh yeah, As soon as reached 20 and logged out. Makes alot of sense to do so. I was also talking Original GW not Factions, Nightfall, and Eye of the North. After the content all I had left was running people everywhere for cash and that got old quick.